The Duran Podcast
NATO humiliation, Macron escalation w/ Ray McGovern (Live)
We are live with Aleksandr Mecrodis and we are very happy and very honored to have with us the great Ray McGovern, Mr. McGovern. How are you doing today? I'm doing fine, even though it's a little early where I sleep. We have your information. Ray McGovern's information, his site, is in the description box down below. I will also add it as a comment as well. Let's just say a quick hello to everyone that is watching us on Rockfin, Odyssey, Rumble, TheDarrand.locals.com and on YouTube and a big hello to our amazing awesome moderators. I hope everyone is doing well. Aleksandr, Ray, we have a lot of stuff to get to, a lot of news to talk about. So Aleksandr, let's get started. Let's start with Croca City Hall because an awful lot of things there. And Ray, you've been following this story very closely. The Russians increasingly talking about Ukraine and Ukraine having a connection. And I think that Ray, if I understand you, you'd be looking specifically at this warning that the Americans gave. And it seems to be focusing very much on this concert, which took place at Croca City Hall on the 9th or 10th of March. And of course, this is your world. You know what about warnings and things and this kind of information the CIA gives. I'm just going to just throw in my own observation here. That concert, the man who was at the center of it, was a man called Yaroslav Dronov, known to most people in Russia as Shaman, is a nationalist Russian rock singer. He's pulled precisely into the category of people like Kazaka Prelepin, Aleksandr Dugan, the man called, you know, we know as Laudland Tataski, the kind of cultural figures in Russia who would be of interest to the Ukrainians, but perhaps not so obviously interesting to ISIS. That's just the thought. What do you make of this? Well, let's say suggestive thought, ISIS, kulebono for ISIS, ISIS construct of the CIA in MR6. What strikes me most is what I, what I think is the most obvious Aleksandr. And that is simply that the US immediately after the incident without a date or without many hours going by said, it wasn't Ukraine, it wasn't Ukraine. It was ISIS, ISIS, k, to be precise. I mean, it doesn't make any sense. Why would they offer this instant denial? I mean, you don't have to be very imaginative to come up with some reasons for that. Putin and his colleagues in Moscow, they adopted a different approach. It's rather consistent with their modus operandi. They wanted to find out some evidence, right? Well, the first thing came to light is, Hey, these guys were headed for the Ukrainian border. Whoa, that's interesting. Well, wait a second. There was a window open on the Ukrainian border ready to accept them. Oh, man. Do you think Ukraine might be involved? Well, let's look at the cell phones that we have now. Oh, victorious parading by Ukraine, by Ukraine for the looking more and more suspicious. Do we say it was Ukraine? Not yet. We're still a messing thing. We're going to bring it to the UN. We're going to show people what we have before we go off off at the mouth as the US has already done. I'm with respect to the the shaman concert. You know, if you look at that recording of the one on the 10th, you can see what a patriotic fervor he installs in people and how they react to him. How do you know the Russian national anthem always to end his performances. Well, his premiere of those three days in Moscow was the ninth, ninth, and 11th. You could see it on the plackers that I finally found on the lampposts in Moscow. Okay, the ninth was the first. One was the warning given to American and British citizens, the seventh. What did they say? 48 hours. Okay, the math works. Okay. Was this the big premiere, which all the muckany mucks would appear it was. This is the big deal. The initiation of this wonderful series concerts. So what little I can piece together is that something was known about the intention to do this within 48 hours. And I would remind people that the Russian presidential election was just one week away. Okay. The 15th, 16th and 17th. So, you know, if this is the idea of this thing was to embarrass the Russians to show the world. And if the pro team may have this fake vote, but look how vulnerable he is for God's sake, then after the 14th. And more precisely, after the election, where are they all dead for this attack seem to have been, seem to have disappeared. I'm not surprised. I don't know if everyone, but most people, I was, that this thing still happened and it seems that Putin was as well. So, that's all, all could be said, but there are people that criticize the US for not re issuing the warning. I don't know. I, you know, I don't know if they had more information or whether they thought it was called off or with the Ukrainians proceeded on their own. In any case, let's face it, what I just said is, is the Ukrainians don't proceed on their own. So, we even have the New York Times drawing chapter and verse as to how the CIA set up all these things, including murder regimes and, and that sometimes they got out of hand and they do things with the CIA really doesn't want it to be trained to be sure, but there's a lot of them to do. So this whole business about whether you bring to this independently. Of course they could not on the night. Well, they could have on the 22nd. I don't know. Who do you blame? Who is it bought in the KGB successor organization internally in Russia said in the car to some press representatives. So, yeah, of course it was the, it was the US, it was UK, it was Ukraine, of course it was though. He doesn't usually go off at the mouth. And yeah, that's another thing to crank it to the calculation, whatever happens here. And I just conclude this long winded answer with this. You know, there's an old tried and trusted stratagem that the US has learned to use. Ever since the K a 007 shoot down the Korean Airlines back in 1983 with 267 passengers, right, killed us at the UN, the Russians did this and they did it deliberately. They shot it down the liberty. Okay. Now, was that true? Of course it was. Did the Russians know it was a passage of plane? Not true. Later from the guy who fixed the video to be shown at the UN that cut out the part that demonstrated the Russians were in a quandary. They didn't, you know, what kind of playing this was there and intelligence played and they just hours before they had no way of finding out what kind of plane it was. And the guy got out the order to shoot and he shot, but they didn't know as a passenger plane. So what do you do? You're black and the Russians and you suppress any evidence that is expulsatory. Now, the guy in question, Alvin Snyder wrote a book about this nobody knows about it, but his final conclusion, the moral he drew from this was look, all countries lie, even my country, the United States of America. I learned that during this episode. The key is who ever lies first wins. Okay, so I offer that to maybe explain this instant. It wasn't Ukraine. It was I said, who ever lies first wins. And the set up in the UN is such a matter of how much the monster to proof. Putin and associates may be able to reduce. There's going to be trouble at the Security Council, because people are predisposed not to believe the Russians and to believe whatever cockamamie explanation comes up out of the US and break. Indeed, I'm going to just say two things. I mean, I remember the chaos double those seven are very, very well. And of course, the thing then is that, of course, the Russians were not particularly good at explaining themselves in those days. I think before they got the Chief of the General Staff, I'm sure you remember him, or Garkov, to come along and give a press conference. I mean, they allowed the Americans to run away with the narrative, very, very quickly. The problem I think with this kind of strategy now is that the Russians have got much wider to it, and they they counter it much more quickly than they used to. Anyway, but you know I overall like said what you say in the West at least, the American version of events is going to prevail. We'll just have to wait to see what the investigation says, a little, a little footnote to that Alexander. They were in an interim. They had these old guys in power after version of left. They were under the gun. I mean, I'm not making excuses for their lack of peer ability. You're quite right about that. But Reagan had just called them the evil empire. They were all kinds of really unnecessary demonstrative attacks on the Soviet regime in those days. And one reason this is so important is that during that year 1983, we came very close to nuclear war. So September, September is the KAL. Two months later, the US mounted this incredible strategic exercise that the Russians took as the real thing. I know about that. I was an active duty. One of my colleagues, Mel Goodman, who I think you know, tried to get Bobby Gates to superior to get them to tone that exercise down because the rest of you're taking a serious. It's not on top of my wish list to make the oceans happy, typical attitude. They went around Casey and said, "Mr. Casey, look, please tell the NSA to knock it off and at least delete the vice president's participation." And as Casey did, things calmed down. And we know from, what was the name? There was a Russian spy. MI6 was running that reported to the British Prime Minister. Yeah, this was the real thing. You guys called it off just in time. So what am I saying? All this stuff? It's not just the human government's speak. It's the same. We're in exactly the same situation. Now, relations are even worse. I mean, that was Cold War. This is a worse Cold War. First of all, we don't have any way of communicating with these people, at least none that I know of. And so to think about how things could go down really quickly is to think about what might happen and we should all, as we do, try to warn people about that. Now, we're getting, and we say things are even more dangerous. The Russians are hearing all this talk in Europe about sending troops to Ukraine. Macron continues to talk about this. We've had articles in the Wall Street Journal in which he's giving assurances to the Americans and the Germans. Also, we're told the French troops in Ukraine get into trouble. America, NATO, doesn't need to be involved. Now, I'm assuming the Russians are reading all these articles in the Wall Street Journal. They must be listening to what Macron is saying. They've had a very tough and rather unpleasant conversation between their Defense Minister and the French Defense Minister. What must the Russians be making all of this? I mean, again, I mean, to me, I mean, you talked about able-archar, dangerous as that was. This sounds to be more dangerous still. And do people in Washington understand the enormous risks of this? No. An answer to your last question. And there is the fly in the ointment. None of these people have any real experience in strategic matters. None of them even wore uniform, even as, well, maybe a cup scout. Okay. Byting himself. How many deferments during Vietnam? Five. Count them. Five. Same mistake training, by the way. Okay. Blinken. Sullivan never put a uniform on. They think. They have this idea that they really are exceptional. They're indispensable. And they have never been held to account for any of their mistakes. They come from a very well-polished shoe factory called the Ivy Leaks. So, you know, it's the same as the best and the brightest in Vietnam, for God's sake. And I remember that to a tee. Same schools, same people, same kind of, not only exceptionalism, but sort of racism, which says all those naked feet, patterning around those naked brown feet, and then the jungles of Vietnam, they can never defeat the United States. Matthew Ho, very high state department official in Kabul, tells me it was the same attitude. When he raised the fact that this is a fool's era in Vietnam, for God's sake, we're trying to tell people. The attitude was that. You think we could lose those people? Those people are what, that's the attitude of like, and so on. So, I think I'm answering your question. You are, because, I mean, this is my own view. I mean, what Macron may be saying to the Americans, that if I get into trouble in Ukraine, you don't need to worry, because, you know, I'm on my own. He's not, I think, what Macron is going to say, if he does get into trouble in Ukraine, he's going to be phoning Washington, and he's going to say, America saved me. I mean, that is where, you know, that is what he's really going to do in that situation. He's not just going to sit back and let France be humiliated in that kind of way in Ukraine. And I don't think this ought to be difficult for people to understand, but it doesn't seem as if people in America do understand it. Well, Alexander, are you suggesting that we should not trust the French? Yes, it's still tough. You know, veteran intelligence professionals for Sanitation, four weeks ago now, wrote our last memo to the president saying, look, this is what's going to happen. He's going to get involved, and he's going to say, hey, we're NATO. So, he's going to invoke help from you. He's going to ask you at least get your nuclear carriers prepared. And what you need to do, Mr. President, is say, no, no, no now before he does this stuff. Now, there were certain noises out of Washington three weeks ago saying, no, the president made it clear this would not be a NATO operation. Well, this is going to prevent Macron from doing that kind of thing. It's called a mousetrap. And the first such mousetrap I saw was when Allen Dulles headed the CIA mousetrap, John Kennedy, into approving the Bay of Pigs on the condition, conditions set by Kennedy, we will not commit any active military forces. If you get bogged down on the beach, shall not be a pig, just don't count on any U.S. military support. Well, they knew better, and then coffee stayed notes found on Allen Dulles's desk after he died. So, well, John Kennedy, he will be in a position of he cannot let this enterprise overthrow Castro not succeed. So, when push comes to show, there will be no alternative for him giving us the armed forces support that he thought he could deny us. So, mousetrap, that's the way very clever people like Allen Dulles then Emmanuel Macron operate. So, yeah, you're right to blow the whistle on that and to raise the alarm so higher, Alex. Now, you bring me, you bring actually a good point out because, of course, Kennedy was surrounded with a very clever man, very clever man, and he was surrounded by very, very clever people. And I remember you telling me once that analysis, the quality of analysis in the CIA was pretty much at its peak at that time. I think I remember you saying that, that was pretty much what? At its peak and around the time of the Kennedy era. And, you know, I've got a book somewhere back there's a famous book where a former CIA person, the last piles of it deducted out from the 1970s, talking about the conflict. I don't know whether this is true, but that's what that book says. The conflict between people who do operations within the CIA and the people who do analysis within the CIA. And that this was a healthy conflict and very important to preserve. And it looks to me as if everybody could run CIA now, some operations. And I get the sense that the analysis, the advice to the President isn't being provided as he ought to be, because surely it is the job of the intelligence people first and foremost to alert the President of the United States, to the fact that a trap is being laid for him by Macron and people like that. Look, this is the most trap type of situation. Yeah, Alexander, you put your finger on it again. It's their job. If they know about it. No, just one final word of the big pigs. I was just reading an Arthur Schlesinger, the historian working for Kennedy on contract, I guess. Back in those days, he wrote a memo and he found out that the analysis division of the CIA was not informed about the beta pigs operation. Nor was it asked, is it true, as these operatives say, that if we learn that in the beach, they'll be an uprising and people will overthrow Castro because he's hated so much. Is that true? Never asked. Never asked. So, this structural fault, you know, has been in existence to the very existence at the beginning of the CIA. We used to be able to, at least on Soviet foreign policy, used to be able to tell it like it was because it was so damn important. You know, we had to get the one right. And we did witness the fact that we were able to negotiate a strategic arms limitation treaty, the ABM Treaty in 1970 to happen to be in Moscow then. I've worked on all that. Okay. But now, at least more recently, the analysis division, which always got about 1/100th amount of money and the operation, they've been smooshed together. Working intertwined, you know, analysts are doing targets. They're not. And if they do any substance intelligence, as you say, well, let's see how that smells. Well, July 7th of last year, our president getting up and saying, "Poutine has already lost in Ukraine." The head of the CIA, William Burns saying six days before, "Poutine has found as many strategic defeat in Ukraine. His armed forces have been shown up for worthless for the whole world to see." So that was July last year. Well, they should have won hands down right out, Russian think. Why is it that they need 60 billion more to prolong this thing through November and get it past the election? It's just so cynical. And if this is what the analysts are telling their leaders, Bill Burns and April Haynes and the president himself, who are in trouble deep because it's not true. And if people don't know that's not true, that can read. That can end up as the Chinese used to say, that could be a very sad end indeed. No good end is what they say. Absolutely. I mean, more things I was reading yesterday. A long article by somebody called Matthew Blackburn in the national interest. Never. I read one article by him previously, by the way, but I don't know much about him. I don't know who he is or anything about him. But it was an interesting article. It talked about the looming debacle in Ukraine. It talked about the fact that an awful lot of people have got Russia profoundly wrong. Well, you brought up veterans intelligence professionals for sanity. Everything of which they write by the way I read, I think it is indispensable. It shows that the powers of analysis for which the United States was famous and which by the way they invented, the whole concept of analysis really starts on the United States. It's still there. There are people in the United States and Vips who still do that sort of work. They didn't get it wrong. Vips didn't get it wrong. Someone may be in the United States government got it wrong. But incredibly, that fact is still not acknowledged even now. We're still getting people making the identical mistakes, putting on, repeating the same errors. Putin is at the end of his row. The Russians are at the end of their row. We need to tighten up sanctions even more. Jeffrey Pyatt talking yesterday, we must stop Russian LNG imports. That will get the whole thing crashing down. I mean, at Vips, you must be concerned about this. I mean, well, I know you are, but I mean, the fact that this kind of incorrect information is being passed on to policy makers all the time. And I personally am very concerned when I see the direct of national intelligence turning up in Congress as a lobbyist for the administration. I don't understand why she is doing that. I would have thought that is not what the director of national intelligence and the director of the CIA ought to be doing. Their job surely is to brief the president and to provide impartial and objective advice. That's exactly right. So, April Haynes, the director of national intelligence has no intelligence experience. She's got a lot of political experience. She was handpicked by John Brennan. Why? Well, because they need somebody that would do what John Brennan wanted. And then when John Brennan got into really deep trouble by hacking Senate Intelligence Committee computers, he needed somebody to bail them out. And so, April Haynes was drawn over to the National Security Council, where her first shovel was to investigate whether John Brennan was misled or how he came to approve the hacking and she exonerated everybody. Then she was picked to run the national study about COVID. And then she came up with this thing. These animals, they can catch this stuff at all this position. And it turns out now that it was a leak from the lab for sure. It's a function or accelerated function, a fauci. It's all pretty clear now from documentary evidence. So, what's the latest job she has? Well, they put her in charge of intelligence. So, what's the first thing she says? Right after the special military option begins. She's interviewed. Well, it's December the 3rd, 2002. And she's asked, "Well, how's it look?" And she's, "Oh, it looks really good. The spring offense of the Ukrainians are going to, that's going to really carry the day." You know why? Because the Russians are running out of ammunition. And worse than that, they don't have any indigenous capability to replace the ammunition and the weaponry that they need. So, things are looking pretty good. And then she's asked, "Well, what about China?" She said, "Oh, China and Russia, they sort of play it both ways." You know, they have meetings. They have a lot of meetings. But we don't see that the Chinese are really helping the Russians in any material way. So, we watch this closely, but mostly they just have meetings. Well, yeah, they have meetings like the 4th of February. Two or three weeks before the invasion of the Ukraine meeting Beijing. Poutine. She. Come right. She looks like we're going to have to invade Ukraine. I just wanted to let you know that at a time. I know this goes against your bedrock. It must fail your policy, but she's responsive, my view. You mean, not until after the Winter Olympics in Beijing are over, right? Right. The 20th they're over. The 21st, the trees are signed within, yes, no guns. The 24th, the Russians can win. You can't tell me that she didn't give, at least his knee hill up start. You got to do what you got to do. And the change in Chinese public state, I'm going to say propaganda, but it's more than that. It's public statements went away from Australia and it went directly to every situation has to be joined by its own merits. And when existential threats come to a major power, this is what happened to me. It was amazing. I was surprised. Oh my God. I know those friends were surprised, but that's what happened. Now, that was a meeting, right? The fourth. There's going to be another meeting. I don't know if this has been announced yet. I love our office. You know, it's Beijing as we speak, but I fully expect that Poutine will find his first visit abroad to Beijing. I would guess maybe as early as next month. And that will be a meeting just as crucial as the one in February of 2002, 22, because you're praying we'll have it. It's a deno moment just around that. And the Russians to the Chinese got to figure out how they're going to react. It's the US and NATO escalating still further. I think I'm right in saying that Chinese-Russian relations was an area that you were particularly expert on. It was something that you were working especially hard on once you were there at the centre of everything, giving the advice and analysing things in a way that doesn't seem to happen anymore. By the way, the Chinese media, they're quoting Reuters, but they're not contradicting Reuters. They're saying that Putin is coming to Beijing in May. So I made you the Chinese media saying that. They say something else, and it's very interesting. And now I've seen I think three articles in the Chinese media saying all of this, which is that we're in a very strong position with the Americans now. We can start to lay out red lines over Taiwan and all kinds of things. We can start to take very tough line with Biden about our issues, because the United States is trapped in Ukraine. I've actually seen that. The Chinese are actually saying this. I mean, articles are saying this, that the United States is so tied down now in Ukraine, and it's so tied down in the Middle East, that we're actually in a strong position with respect to the Americans. They may be threatening us with sanctions, but we know how to deal with that. We dealt with that before. We got that under control. We're in strong position with the Americans because the Americans are trapped in Ukraine. That was actually the word that was used. And that is starting to appear in the Chinese media. I don't know whether anybody in Washington is aware of this, but this is something I've started to see over the last couple of days. Well, Alexander, you and I came up on criminal analogy and media analysis. Very lucrative subset of political analysis. You can clean a hell of a lot from the media even now. But in response to - let's put she and Vladimir of it together down in Beijing a couple of weeks from now. My God, what's going on? The Americans are taking it on the chin in Ukraine, in supporting genocide and Gaza. We got Marines, about nine miles offshore of the Chinese mainland. They're still threatening things on Taiwan. I mean, don't they realize what a weak position they're coming from? All the more so since we're joined at the hip, don't they know that? And the answer, as disquieting as it is, is they don't appear to. Biden says the same thing in private as he says in public. Look, he quotes Madeleine Albright with great honor and respect. We are the sole indispensable country in the world. We can do what the hell we want. And this never became clearer than at the end of a 60 minutes interview about five weeks ago where the interviewer says, aren't you afraid of like a two-front war in Ukraine and the Middle East now? And Biden does it. This is exactly what he said. We're the United States of America. The most powerful country in the history of the world. But in the history of the world. Now, I mean, to make fun of him, this is deadly serious. He still thinks that he can't be disabused of this notion. So, when Putin says, I prefer Biden over Trump because he's more predictable. My God, let's say you don't really have a predictable person like Biden. But how can you predict what Biden will do if Ukraine starts to go down in such a way that it means he loses the election. Should it be some factor? He's got personal state in this. He's got son Hunter. He's got Blinken and Andrew Sullivan and Andrew Sullivan. Jacob Sullivan in court documents guilty as sin in many of the respect. They have to be afraid that if that other fellow comes in, they go to jail. So, there's a personal state in this thing too. So, what's the outcome? Do we give up? Oh, they're not going to give up. What do we do? If 16th, that's not going to be enough. So, as I've said before, what scares the hell out of me is that these nail fights will say, "Well, Mr. President, we do have these low-yield nuclear weapons." And we could maybe stage a little false flank attack and blame it on the Russians. But the Russians will know that it was we and that should hold them for, well, until November. And that's all we need. Is that beyond them? I don't think it's beyond them, but it doesn't matter, I think. That is what Vladimir Vich and Xi Jinping think. Absolutely. I mean, I think this is absolutely the case if you look at Russian commentary. And of course, the Russian media isn't as controlled as it used to be. But nonetheless, you could still get an awful lot of sense of what people are talking about. They are concerned about these things. They are worried about possible American escalations exactly that way. But they've also, I think, come to the view. And I think that this is clear to me that whatever it is the Americans have in mind, the Russians have no choice from the moment but to continue what they continue to do, what they are doing unless and until the Americans come to their senses, they have no reason as they see it to do anything else. So they will continue. Yeah, as Putin himself has actually put it, we don't think we have to negotiate just because you're running out of ammunition. Yeah. So you're right. I see the, I see Putin even under this provocation on 22 March. The name of the game is attrition. You're a trip. You're a trip. You're a trip. And anyone who wants to know about that just needs to tune into your program, as opposed to on a daily basis, see how that attrition is coming. Now, will Putin be under pressure to do a big arrow offensive and go all the way to the Niepa River? Yeah. He'll be under pressure no matter what comes out of that investigation of the terrorist attack in Moscow. Will he succumb to that pressure? I don't think so. Putin has never been riding as high as he is now after that election. And there's no, there's no sign as we used to be highly alert for a substantial opposition within the leadership there. They're all behind them full squared. And each time there may be some doubts what the US, well, the US or the Ukrainians or the British do something so heinous. They're going to be all together on this. It's an all Russian thing togetherness. They learned it in spades during World War II. And now when Putin says we are quote one step away from World War III, they know what that means. Do you just go quickly back to China? I mean, if they do think that America is dangerously out of control, but they also think as they're saying that it's trapped in Ukraine. Coming back to your point about Russian Chinese cooperation. Isn't that a reason for the Chinese to continue their cooperation with the Russians? I'm going to continue to provide the machine tools and the microprocessors and all of those things that the Russians probably do need and probably are accessing from China at this particular time. Of course, you know, there's a very mutual beneficial relationship there. The Chinese drinking oil of the Russian oil that they possibly can and the Indians as well. So, yeah, the Chinese will continue to do what they have been doing. I noticed that when Janet Yellen started Yellen at the Chinese this past week, telling them, "Look, you're overproducing. You're making too much stuff. That's hurting us. You got to stop that." And her intellect reader said, "No, actually, we're trying to follow the rules of the market economy." So, you know, this whole business about all of a sudden blaming the Chinese for making it possible for the Russians to win in Ukraine. They have to blame someone and they get two birds with one stone if they blame China because they want to blame China anyway, but the notion that all of a sudden China is responsible for enhancing the Russian economy after two years and making it possible for them to win. Well, you can believe that, I suppose. You can also believe that the Russians are using chemical weapons on the front and those stories about that now. You can believe all kinds of stuff in the Western media. Of course, that's the nut here. I go back to the media. Let me just use one short story that's so illustrative. Robert Perry was my mentor as a journalist. And Fred Hyatt of the Washington Post who ran their op-ed section since before the war in 2003 and reported 85% of the time weapons of mass destruction has flat fact in Ukraine, but in Iraq, okay? The Columbia Journalism Review had them up there and some of these bright students, naive as they were. They said, "Now, Mr. Hyatt, you kept reporting weapons of mass destruction has flat fact in Iraq and there weren't any." What do you say to that? And he said, "Well, if the weapons of mass destruction were not there, we probably should have not said that they were." Robert Perry puts an elbow in my solar plexus. This is Ray. I think that's a cardinal precept on the strong ones. If something is not there, then you're not supposed to say it is, right? Well, what happened to Fred Hyatt? Here's the teaching point. Well, he was immediately fired, right? No, no. He stayed op-ed editor watching both for 20 more years until he died for God's sake. So, that's it. Nobody's ever held accountable whether they're in the media or they're in the deep state. There isn't the power or any president even to hold people accountable. In the media and the deep state, they're synonymous now. Rule the roost. Absolutely. That wasn't true, despite what people say, it wasn't true in the '60s and the early '70s. I can remember that in those days, there was a much more critical media than there is today. And it was a much more critical media in which CIA government used to have to function. I mean, they knew that if they did things and that they were leaked to the media, the American people would find out about them. Congress would find out about them. There would be people in Congress who would be concerned about them. And that, I can say this all the time, made for a much better information environment. You know, people often say, you know, the CIA in the '70s and '80s failed. They didn't predict the fall of the Soviet Union. I can remember that time. I can remember the kind of data we were getting from the US intelligence community at that time. And I can say it, I think if overall was stand stood up pretty well, looking back at what happened. You know, the US was pretty well informed. The US government at least was pretty well informed about the state of things in the Soviet Union in many places. And that isn't true any longer. And the media in those days was a part of that. Yes, now the media is the fulcrum. You know, I use this acronym, the Mickey Matt military, industrial, congressional intelligence media, academia, think tank complex. The evolving of the myth, the military industry complex, Eisenhower warned us about 62 years ago or so. Okay, so what is the, why do I say media as if in all caps? Well, because the media is really the fulcrum, the the lynch print here. Without the media, if you don't dominate the media, you can't make any of this stuff happen. And you know, it's so, it's so obvious that none of us do do justice to reminding our audience that people cross a tier on all this stuff. People make a hell of money. And that's what's called the military industrial complex today. And the media is the key. And you're, I mean, don't you guys know that better than I do, but the struggle is always to get out. And of course the, the challenge that Julian Assange created. And in the ability to get stuff up into the ether and down into computers, like mine right here. Well, that was such a danger that they had make abject lesson of Julian, poor fellow, friend of mine, friend of yours as well. And so that's why he languishes still in prison got out. Absolutely. And I think that's an important thing to say. Ray McGovern, I get to just finish with one thing. We seems to me we have three major information disasters. We've got an admission now, national interest. It's one small place, but it's at least it's one admission that, you know, people didn't get Russia right. They didn't understand its political, its political unity on the question of Ukraine. They underestimated this industrial economic resources, something which is extraordinary, actually. I mean, I still find it unfathomable that they got that so completely wrong that they also underestimate this military resilience. And we have Kurt Campbell, it's the State Department, essentially admitting that he does it in a very round of that way. They've got the Russian Chinese rapprochement wrong too. I mean, this is where you started. You were telling people in the 60s, actually, the Chinese and the Russians aren't getting on very well then, and people didn't believe you. Now, I think you'd be telling us, Chinese and Russia is getting on quite well, actually. People don't believe you. It's a fact that people have got all that wrong. And we've had a spectacular failure in the Middle East as well. The whole response to what happened on the 7th of October, I think everybody can now see everybody who wants to be honest with themselves. This has been a terrible moral political disaster from every side. I mean, it's been awful. What's happened in Gaza? It's been awful. What's happened in geopolitical terms as well to international relations terms in terms of how things are happening, shaping out in the Middle East. Now, all of these things have happened all at the same time, you know, Russia, China, Russian resolve and power situation in the Middle East. This suggests a deeply dysfunctional system in Washington. I mean, we might have an election which might actually result in some change in November. Maybe that's hoping altogether for too much, but surely in the face of all of this, a major reform of the intelligence system, the way it processes and provides information, is now becoming extremely urgent indeed. We talk about the intelligence system. That must include the media landscape also. Where am I wrong? Absolutely right. The CIA as such should be abolished. I want to keep covert action and be able to throw governments put that in a Pentagon work belongs. Okay. The CIA director should no longer be authorized on the law to perform such other functions and duties as the President shall from time to time direct. That enables a corrupt president or disengaged president, Jack, like the head of a Gestapo. Okay. So that said the CIA should be about that's not going to be abolished. And my my horizon here is November. Okay. And I dare say if I read Vladimir Putin correctly, his horizon is also November. He has said more than once and he's seen this from personal experience. The foreign and military policy of the United States is crafted mostly under the under the dictates of the domestic political situation. So here I'm coaching, and I'm saying my God, these guys are going down downhill, held in the hand basket book. What are they going to do? What are they going to do? Well, the first imperative, if I'm going to change is to not do anything that they can seize as a provocation to do something even worse. Okay. Many nooks, for example. Now that's not completely within my Vladimir Putin's power because they can do a false flag. So let's be on the alert for that. Okay. Let's warn the French. If they call Schoygo again, make sure Schoygo you don't forget about it. You guys are dead as soon as you cross the border. Y'all should understand that. Okay. And we won't make believe that you're a NATO country. And we are, of course, but we don't believe that's NATO troops and White House has pretty much said that. And by the way, you know, we know where those bases will be that the F 16 fly out of some of them if they're in France. Well, you know, it's too bad about that. You're belligerent now. Now, what else? Well, these next several months are really key. If $60 billion more is appropriated to help Ukraine is not going to make one bit of difference on the battlefield. Okay, I can explain that. But you guys have already explained that quite well. So what does that mean? That simply means that Congress is even more committed, even more committed to making sure that we support Ukraine for either as long as it takes or for as long as we can. So the danger period is between now and November. I think it's very fortuitous that Putin and Xi Jinping will be meeting next month. They'll be figuring out how much alert they need to put their forces on. And how much they'll be prepared to dust up a lot of stuff better or more violent than saber rattling, let's say, along those islands off the South China Sea, or elsewhere in Syria or whatever, you know, the Chinese, some Chinese ships are in the Red Sea now. And so Russia's ships are so things are reached. They're kind of a deal no more. It all depends on what happens in Ukraine. And what I hear Gucci and love rough saying is, look, you got to deal at some point. We all think your deal, your set tracks, your puppets agreed, and then you put the kabosh on it. Now, now it's not going to be as good a deal, but give me a deal. And I still think, I'm probably wrong on this, that a Tiesa could become an international city. That could be jointly ruled by Russia and some other entity, perhaps even a new Ukraine. Okay, so that Ukraine can exist as a viable nation and not just become a form for the rest of Europe. In other words, they'd have access to the Black Sea. I think that kind of thing is still possible. It was suggested by Pucci himself a year and a half ago. Nobody noticed, except you guys and me, that this was part of that lengthy Q&A, which lasted three and a half hours. Okay, so you have to, you have to read your stuff, you have to stay awake and have to figure out what this sort of. He called it either a Yappleta or a Zora, either an apple of discord, you know, the Trojan War, or a means of conciliating differences is coming to a mutually acceptable agreement, namely on the status of a Tiesa. That was October, a year and a half ago. I still think that if the US wanted to tamp down things, they could go back and say, well, okay, can we talk about it just a first and see if it can salvage some sort of outlet to the sea. In other words, there is flexibility there. The Russians don't want to go all the way to the Nyepper. In my view, why should they? They've got what they want now, as long as they can create a Haudenosaunee tier between them and these long range presses on the other side. Sorry to take on so long here, but it's so such good. Let's show you joy to be with you guys and be able to speak with you rather just watch your wisdom come oozing out of my cat-thode ray tube. Ray, never apologize. Thank you very much for those, for that for those insights. I'm going to hand over to Alex. I'm sure there's some questions. And if you've got time to answer a few questions, that will be written. That one's fantastic. Fantastic Ray. We do have some questions for you. Ryan says finally catch our live stream and it's Ray McGovern. Fantastic from Ignat. Is this with regards to France, possibly entering Ukraine? Is this the NBN food 2.0? The end what? Yeah, there's a difference in magnitude there, of course. The journal principal, right, you have 2000 murdered rather than whatever was 50,000 in GMU food. You know what's interesting is, they call the French super tank the Le Clerc. Now who is Le Clerc? He was one of the most famous French generals there in World War II. He did a terrific job. So what happens? A year after the war they send them out to Indo-China, ruled by France, of course, and they say, "General Le Clerc, can you tell us how many troops it's going to take to subdue and get Indo-China back in under our orbit?" And he goes out there and he writes this message, "It's going to take 500,000 troops and even then we cannot do it." So, that's 1946. Fast forward ahead to US involvement of Vietnam. We put in 550,000 troops and we still cannot do it. A mark of the arrogance that US policymakers like the best and the brightest then, like Sullivan and Blinken now think they can do this and they can't do it. The French couldn't do it and they can't do it and they can't do it now in these other areas. As soon as they come to realize that, the better for mankind I could say. Libertarian by default asks, "Is there anything Russia can do proactively, the effect of which would significantly change the West's appetite to keep interfering?" The appetite will always be there. I was thinking the question I was going to say is there some artful diplomatic move that I think there is. I would not exclude looking and saying, "All right, look, this is an immediate ceasefire as far as we're concerned. But it's only a duration of two or three weeks. We want to start negotiations at that point in time. There's no flexibility or there's no wish to even talk to us. Well, you draw the necessary conclusions. We will continue a trading, a trading, a trading." I haven't thought that through, but it is something that would catch the eye of the world. People would poo poo it and say, "This is Russian propaganda, but why not try it?" The world is divided now in a way, never divided before, and the Lily White West, in person by NATO, has no longer ruling the Roost. It would have quite a, quite a risk of nonsense, I think. From Sir Mugg's game, Ray have a little pity for Makron. He's got from sipping Chateau Lafitte, 1952, the gludging Chateau defeat, and Chateau defeat, 2024 from the bottle. Compliments to Monsieur Putin, of course. Well, let him eat bread together with that wine. Thank you for that, Covid. From curious enthusiasts, if NATO and Eurasia were enemies, then maybe Ray can explain this. Why has America helped build up China's infrastructure since the 1990s? If not earlier, Ray doesn't seem American thinking that a communist nation is a savior. Is it a savior? Yes, it is a savior. Well, all I can say is that the money speaks. It's filthy liquor, and Clinton, and the rest of them saw the offshoring of our major industries as a lucrative thing, and all of a sudden, two decades later, they wake up and say, "Oh, my God, you're producing too much. Cut back your production. It's hurting us," for God's sake. Yellen, Yellen, at the Chinese. It was the most ludicrous episode, and indeed, on the very eve of when Love Rough comes to talk seriously to Xi Jinping. Who met him, by the way, I just learned that Xi Jinping did receive Love Rough. That's unusual. Foreign ministers almost never get to see the Chinese president. So, yeah, it's not so complicated. From Elza, Mr. McGovern, the memes on your telegram channel are very good. The memes, the memes, the photos, the comments on your telegram channel are very good. Someone that's following your telegram. And from John Ski, I'll try to ask this in the diplomatic way, because I don't really like these questions. Yes, for Mr. McGovern, will the deep stay try to take care of Trump before the election, after or how will Russia shine a react? Gosh, that's a tough one. Well, no one would have said, "Oh, come on." But when you look at the Kennedy assassination, when you look at the extraordinary attempts made before the election in 2016, not to assassinate Trump, probably, but politically, and make sure he didn't win. And then after he did win, trying to emasculate him from doing anything constructive toward Russia, well, that did happen. So, who knows? Trump had no experience in Washington. He was even greener than Jimmy Carter. Those were their tragic flaws. They thought they could rule without that kind of experience and savvy, savvy advisers. They couldn't. And God knows what will happen to Trump if he is elected. I'm still thinking that the American people are, by and large, most of them, smart enough to pick something different, and hopefully Joe Biden will have decided to spend more time with his family after all, Hunter needs him right now. And that would be the charitable thing to do. And somebody else would rise to the fore. Hope springs eternal, but it's there. And it sort of has two daughters, anger and courage. Just enough anger and the courage to make it different in the way it has been. Great, great answer. Let's do one more. We have one more for Ray McGovern. From Andres. Ask how the power, how are the Paris Olympics tied to the war in Israel and or the special military operation in Ukraine. You see any connection between the Olympic Games and Paris and the conflicts that are taking place now. I've seen that speculation rise before. I have to tell you that I think everything could be judged as a genius on its own merits. I don't really perceive any such connection, but it wouldn't be the first time that I was wrong. Ray McGovern, thank you very much for joining us on this live stream. I have Ray's site in the description box down below the link to the website I will also add as a pinned comment. Thank you very much Ray. That's a fantastic show. Keep up the good work. And can I also say thank you Ray for coming on and it was indeed a tremendous show. And by the way, just as we've been speaking just a few moments ago TAS confirms that Putin is indeed heading to Beijing. It hasn't given us the date, but it's been confirmed just now by TAS. That's very predicted this show. All right, take care Ray. Thanks so much. Thank you. Bye bye. All right. Fantastic show, huh? Fantastic show, absolutely. And of course, from somebody who was there throughout the Cold War. I mean, you know, he's been through all of these things. I mean, he goes back to the 1960s of Vietnam, Cuba, all of that. And, you know, he's been there. He's done that. He knows how the system used to work. And you can see how the system works now, which is things are getting worse is my conclusion. They're getting worse. They were saying things are getting a lot worse. Yeah, they are getting worse. I mean, you know, we had a time when you know, Kennedy Nixon had clever people around the situation today where they have Jake Sullivan. I mean, that's not tells you that things are definitely getting worse. And you had analysts like Ray and now. I don't know. Well, I don't know who's who's analyzing the situations who's breaking things down. Well, they're not. I mean, that's clearly what's happening. I mean, the, the, the, the national interest article is an actual eye opener. I mean, it is the first one that really finally gets round to say, we've got this whole thing completely wrong. It's time that we went back to the drawing boards and started again. I almost felt like he was listening, like he was listening to it. I don't know. I was reading that article. I might even have been anyway. There we are. Yeah. Well, what was the name of the article for people? I think it was the looming debacle. Okay, the looming debacle in national interest. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Okay, if anyone is interested in that article. All right, let's, let's answer the remaining questions, Alexander. From Christos Ella. I keep on missing the live. Christos is good to have you here if you caught this live. Oh, and he is a new member to the drag community. Ryan. Welcome to the grad community. Verde. Thank you for that. Super sticker. A goo says Western globalist policy led to the rise of Al Qaeda and Isis. Now, the same policy is supporting the rise of neo Nazis in Ukraine blindness self delusion or something else. Why do they easily dismiss morality? Why do they indeed? And I mean, that's a very good point because actually moral policies, I want to say this actually moral policies tend to be the correct ones and the realistic ones at the end of the day. It's when you get loose touch with reality that you start getting involved with really dangerous people. You think you can control, but ultimately never can. I think that's an important thing to say and get yourself also in all kinds of terrible situations like the ones that we're seeing now. Anyway, that that is my own view. Is there some great plan behind it all? I didn't see it actually. I mean, is the plan to get us all killed? I mean, that doesn't seem to me to be a good plan because I mean, if you do that, then you're going to end up being yourself killed. So I think that what we have are people who think that the masters of the universe who think they're extremely clever, who think that they can control everything. And of course the reality is they can't. And that's why we're talking about a looming debacle. Elza says, has Russia learned to control the narrative? No, no, I mean, they're still massively outmatched by the West in these things and Putin said as much when he was asked his question by Tucker Carlson. He says he's all but impossible to win a narrative argument against the United States, given the extent the lock hold that the US has over the international media. I think, having said that the Russians could do a lot more for themselves, but I mean, I accept that, you know, winning a clear cut victory against the US on this issue. It's very, very difficult, all but impossible. Having said that, remember, narratives are fictions or facts. As I say all the time, I made this point, many, many, many occasions. Through Catherine, I have a German family, some of them lived through the Second World War. Those who did pass away now, but I've talked about this to me many times. Tell me how completely they believed the narratives that they would be spun by their leader and his propaganda minister, up to the point of course, when the Russians arrived in Berlin. And eventually the Russians got to Berlin. It can't stop facts crashing through. Trevor says, everyone's got a plan till we stab them in the back, Victoria Newland. Yeah. Mark in Texas says, thoughts on Tucker Carlson's claim that Mike Johnson is compromised. Well, I think it wasn't actually Tucker Carlson, so I think it was Marjorie Taylor. Marjorie Taylor. Marjorie watching that interview. Well, I don't know. I mean, I'm going to say this. I mean, he's somebody who's come up very quickly, very fast. I mean, a couple of months ago, I never even heard of him. I'm going to say that straight away. Maybe I've been, you know, people in the Republican party, you know, an awful lot more about it. It's just, I think, more likely that he's under colossal pressure from all sorts of sides, from the administration, from the deep state, from the rhinos, the McConnell wing of the party. And they are piling on the pressure on him. And I find it entirely understandable why somebody like that, who probably isn't that experienced in foreign policy questions and all sorts of other big questions, why in light of that he's buckling. So, maybe he's being blackmailed. I don't know. Marjorie Taylor Greene thinks he perhaps is, but I can, I think you can find rather more innocent explanations from his side. Maybe he's just not that strong as a human being. Just saying. Thank you for that super sticker libertarian by default says proud being a part of the direct community. Thank you. I'm proud to have you with us. Emile is a new member to the direct community. Eric, I should thank you for that super chat Ricardo Alfonso. Thank you for that super sticker. goalie says Lieutenant General Sir Simon may y'all claims that Russian armaments are of low quality downplaying their capabilities, the level of hubris on display is criminal this isn't a game lives are at stick. Another British officer, another British general. I have to say, I am very disillusioned by the state of the British officer call. I used to give an advice. I'll do an advice clinic for British soldiers. This is a long time ago in the 90s. These were privates and NCOs, and I was hugely impressed by them. I greatly like them. What I'm seeing about British British officers at the moment. I say, God help me. I mean, it really is a case of lines led by donkeys, which is what a famous book about the British Army in the First World War says. And by the way, I spoke to one person who is a British former British NCO and he told me exactly the same thing. Pabernock says, can't win a chess match, but can break the chess board. Paul, welcome to the drag community Pamela. Thank you for that. Super sticker Nikki ball says, whoever lies first wins a member, a memorable. Adam, Adam it from your burst. I'm going to remember that one. I think it's a very, very strong one. I think I'm writing to say that Ray wasn't saying that that is necessarily true. The point he was making is that that is what these people think. And I think that is absolutely right. Fractured zero one says Macaron is no sun King, but maybe he will inspire more Bastille. Possibly. Well, I mean, somebody brought up the NBA and food. The NBA and food ended in a disastrous defeat for France. It's set in train. A whole series of events which ended in the collapse of the French Fourth Republic and the rise of general to go. So don't bear that in mind. You know, military disasters can lead to enormous political change in France. And that has happened in recent history. Let America says any parallel with the attack on Crocus City Hall, falling on the eve of the Jewish holiday of. This is such none. I'm sure not. I'm sure that this is the timing in my opinion of the original plan exactly as Ray says was the Russian presidential election. And the target was this concert by Shaman, otherwise Yaroslav Dronov, immensely popular, Russian rock singer, strong patriot, very patriotic concerts, an obvious target just before an election, seeking to cause the greatest destabilization under this bears and says, please discuss the lack of French involvement with manpower in Africa, but decision, but the decision to want full manpower in Ukraine to wars with the Russians, but not both. You know, it's so crazy. I mean, you know, the French in the end back to all for military intervention in Niger, because there was too risky and too dangerous. That talking about an intellectual intervention against Russia in Ukraine. I mean, it just shows how catastrophically bad decision making in Paris has become. But there we go. I mean, you know, it's difficult sometimes to explain this in rational terms. I got a long email from someone explaining to me why France is so aggrieved about the loss in West Africa, the enormous benefits, financial benefits of some people in France were making from all of this. But you know, as a response, this is an utterly stupid one from a country, which always prides itself on the, you know, having a people who are particularly clever. Maybe that would need to think rethink that. Yeah, and this says Alex and Alexander and now the real media love it. Thank you, and this for those questions. Let's see here. Let's go back to why he, a libertarian by default says the EU runs the risk of becoming irrelevant and in decline when the dust settles the US will eventually course correct with Russia, plus they have resources to spend. The EU can do neither. Yeah, no, no less the person that Vladimir Putin made exactly that point. He said that one day, the US and Russia will find a way forward together, but Russia and the EU never will. Yeah, Brad Arnold says a lot of snowflakes will melt when the Russian army crosses that need bird river. Sure not. Tired looking for name says if French society forces market on to back down, is there a graceful way to exit. I hope so. Trouble is, Macron will never exit. He's far too conceited to ever do that. He's going to try and find some other equally disastrous and crazy way of re-establishing himself as Napoleon or Caesar, the Caesar of the Sand, North, the Louis catalogue or something like that. Yeah, from Salust, if the press is the fourth power, it is the least democratic of the four. I'm true enough now. Absolutely. Once upon a time it was different, as Robert Barnes as correctly said, in the United States and by the way in Britain, it was a working class, you know, medium. Most of the people who went and worked in the media in the old days. The really great people who looked at them, they came from working class demographics. They went join the newspapers. They didn't go to university usually. They worked their way up. They became investigative reporters and they were hard-bitten and tough and wily clever and they were not easily manipulated. Today, it's not people like that at all. And it's entirely elite operation run by the same kind of elite people who run government. Paul Wooten says, "I get the impression NATO perceives Russia is still the Soviet Union. Not the best discussed this important detail with my U.S. Congressman. Thank you." It's true. It's not the best discussed this with my U.S. Congressman. Oh, how to best discuss it? Well, why not confront him straight out? Say to him, you know, why are you so obsessed with Russia? It's no longer communist anymore. Do you think it is? Because if you do, you've got it completely wrong. It's a conservative Christian country now. Commander Crossfire says, "Just want to put this out there. Russia sent the first satellite into space, the first man, the first woman, the first black Asian Arab and Latino." True enough. Absolutely, yeah. Thank you for that, Commander Crossfire. Alex Gladys, thank you for that, SuperSticker. Jeff Pickford, thank you for that, SuperSticker. Salusta says, "We will not support Ukraine as long as we can, as well as it takes, but as long as we can take." That's true enough. Well said. Let's see here. Commander Crossfire says, "U.S. did not build up China. The notion is an insult to IQ." It absolutely is. I mean, anybody who knows anything about China, the country's history, the scale of the place knows that, you know, that has the experience of Chinese people. Most of China is a country that will find its own way and do extraordinary things by itself. It has repeatedly done so. I mean, I don't want to go on about the Great Wall and gunpowder and the compass and all of that, but that is the civilization that we're talking about. And remember, it is the world's oldest state. It's a continuous history. Going back to something like 3,000 years. Yeah. Alexander Podjechev says, "Thank you." And Alexander also says, "Do you think that the West would become authoritarian if the Western elites start to realize that they are losing power in their own countries?" Will become or is becoming, because it is the second. It's becoming more authoritarian every day. Just look at the new law that's passing through the Scottish Parliament about controlling hate speech, for example. That is very authoritarian indeed. Go to Belmarsh prison. See what is going on there with Julian Assange. Yeah. Simon Enifer says, "If is the veneer of democracy now too expensive a luxury for the deep state setting the stage for chaserism in the U.S. is what Spengler would expect?" Yes. I think you're quite right. I think there is an element of this. I think that there is a very, very deep commitment to democracy amongst the American people. But I think that there is an element within the political and deep state elite that has a completely cynical and manipulative view of it. They talk democracy and freedom and all that. But for them, it's simply a mechanism whereby they stay in power and they expand that power. Commander Crossfire says congrats on 400,000 subs was pretty much through last time. Thank you, Commander. Thank you. That, Sparky says great work. Thank you. Thank you, Sparky. Elza says, "Hearing people like Ray McGovern speak shows how much things have changed, degradation of the West and Russia becoming a truly free country." The world turned upside down for me. I said this many times. I remember the Elsove union, which was not without its strengths, by the way, despite what people said. But it was never really a convincing alternative to the United States, at least not for people, educated people in Europe and indeed around the world. Today, it's so different. Things have changed so completely. It is astonishing. Death dealer 1341 says, "Let's hope we get a new president in the USA before they go to war with Russia." I actually agree with this. I think that the November election is going to be a key, a decisive turning point. I mean, even if we avoid a war, all that will happen is if the current law is still there afterwards is that the decline is going to accelerate. Look at the situation. As I said, three crises, all happening at once, were a marshmalt between China and Russia intensifying, total underestimation, debacle, looming debacle in Ukraine, looming debacle in the Middle East, or under the watch of the same people that we risk having reelected in November. I mean, it doesn't bear thinking about. Sir Mugg's game says, in 1648, in 1648, they negotiated the Peace of Westphalia. In 2024, 2025, the Russians will negotiate the Peace of West Failure. Absolutely love it. I'm going to pass that on to a number of people. Glendesen will adore that one. Thank you for that. "Black in the Empire" says Great Show. Thank you for that. John Ski says, "What role does the WEF's 2030 agenda have on the West's policies, if any?" The WEF has lots and lots of policies. If you want to see their vision of the world, they've provided it in massive, prestigious, extraordinary detail. All of these plans that they've come up with are completely crazy, and they're all falling apart. Globalization, which is the big thing that they were plugging, is falling apart around them, even they are now starting to admit that. And of course, all the control systems that they're also talking about are also coming apart. The one thing that is still working for them, and which they are pushing now even more relentlessly than they have ever done, and it was the thing that they started with, is EU integration. And that's what their main focus is going to be over the next few years. From Andres, "What is the possible resolution of the Yemen conflict of the shipping lanes?" U.S. pulls back peace in Gaza. It's the only one. I mean, there is no conceivable way that this thing can work militarily, and I think everybody now understands that. Simon Hennifer says, "Will Western leaders ever learn that it isn't money that wins wars? It's a combination of industrial power, the realistic doctrine, and the will to win?" Well, they used to know it was a time when Western leaders did understand that. Whether they will ever rediscover that, we'll just have to say again, going back to that national interest article. It actually says at one point that far from the West, teaching a lesson to Russia, it is Russia that is teaching a lesson to the West. It's actually quite extraordinary. Bob says, "Grow carrots. They are good for you." Sparky says, "I hope Trump begins to watch the derail, and he seems to get most of his information from the legacy media, so he doesn't know what's actually going on." I hope so too. We'd love to think that, but whether he does or not is up to him. Adam Marro says, "Thank you, gentlemen, very much for inviting Ray McGovern. Still clear and strong-minded at his age, unlike Bidenopolis." That's enough. Thank you for that, Adam Marro. Jeff Bickford says, "Change is essential at this point in world history. We will escape total chaos. Will we escape total chaos and destruction somehow?" Yes, I think so. I mean, I believe so. Despite all the things that we have been saying, there was a Russian official today that the NATO will avoid the ultimate crisis because at some point, self-preservation, concern for self-preservation will kick in. I think he's right. By the way, it's in task. It's there today. It's quite interesting. I think that we will back off. I also still believe that this is a particularly dark period that we're going through, but once we get through it, things will start to get better. I keep that hope. I'm not giving up, as I so often say, despair is a bad counsellor. Zariel says, "Stupid people think they're smart. It's equal to dangerous." It's true. Yeah, Zariel, as always, you hit the nail on the head. Zariel, thank you for that super chat. OMG Puppy says, "A YouTuber Real Life Lore has a recent video about France's economic entanglement with West Africa playing games with currency, extracting wealth, and how they are losing their empire there." The person who sent me that e-mail that I mentioned actually provided links to, I think, the article you're referring to. Zariel says, "400,000 wooped, finally, great to gents." Thank you, Zariel, for that. Thank you for everybody for that 400,000. What if the French army refuses Macron's orders? Remember their letters about the threats of mass migration to France? I'm hearing a lot of rumbles. I'm hearing lots of stories that there are actually lots of disaffection and anger about this within the French military. And I don't want to make any predictions. I mean, the French military is very disciplined. And I think French officers are to be straightforward about it, but grainier and in some ways more disciplined than British officers are. But there is a history, there has been a history of the military in France asserting itself, so don't discount it entirely. Summer of 1970 says 400,000 subs. Congrats, Zariel. Thank you for that. And a couple of more, Alexander, one sec. They go to rumble. Andris says, "How does one put in a bid for Alexander's book collection when it passes in 60 years?" How do they put a bid for that book collection? I'll give some thought to that. I'll work out something, but you know, you will have to wait 60 years to remember that. And we have a super chat from last livestream, when the livestream ended, the super chat came in as a livestream. And so let me read that one out as well. Random name says, "We have a saying here in Russia about a university education, an educated person knows something about everything, and he knows everything about one thing." Well, that's not bad. It's true. Of course, you know, we had a great philosopher in Greece, Socrates. He said something, which is that I am the greatest of the philosophers, not because I know everything, but because I know only one thing, and that is that I know nothing. Just think of that. All right, that is everything, Alexander. Wait, Sir Muggs game says, "I go to buy the Duran's t-shirt with mosaic double eagle. Just when I think I'm out, the Duran pulls me back in." Thank you. Yeah, they pull me back in. All right, that is the livestream. Thank you to Ray McGovern for joining us once again. This website link is in the description box down below and I will add it as a pinned comment. Thank you to everyone that watched us on Rockfin Odyssey. Rumble YouTube and the Duran.locals.com. Thank you to our locals community. And thank you to our moderators. Oh, yes, Peter, reckless abandon. And who else? I think that is everybody I think to show moderating as well. Thank you to our moderators. I hope I didn't miss anybody in the moderation. I'll enter some final thoughts and we'll wrap it up as I do a final check. It's a fantastic program. As I said, listen to Ray. I mean, it also just brings you history back, you know, the modern, the recent history, which we are forgetting, actually, or at least not we, not people like us on the Duran, but people in Washington. I think they don't go back and look at how previously it is like Kennedy and indeed Nixon and Eisenhower and others handle things. And if they did, they would understand that they handle things differently and a lot better Reagan as well, by the way. They would understand an awful lot more about how the world really works than they do. And, you know, the thing about that Ray was talking about, the arrogance, the belief in unlimited American power. I can remember at time when America was much more powerful relative to other countries than it is today. Back in the 70s and 80s, they didn't think like that then. They understood the limits of their power much better. And that's so improved their decision making. And, of course, their democracy at that time, with so much more vibrant and healthy than it is today. And that improved the quality of their decision making also. And, of course, it also made their economy and society much more attractive. One question came in from Darren 11. Any chance you guys could do vids on the recent Turkish and Polish local elections, and the impact it has on Erdogan and to Donald Tusk. We've touched on the other one election in one of our programs. And, you know, we can we can come back to that about the Polish election, regional elections. I haven't really fallen to be honest. I need to follow up on that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we'll try to do a video on the Polish local, or at least touch up on the top. Absolutely, because it's clearly important to all be. Thank you for that. And Harry C. Smith says, has Mark Ron been fighting with his wife, Jo? Jo Costa. Goodness knows. Goodness knows. It was all skin. And D love three, six, seven, nine. Thank you for that super chat. All right. That's it. How it's enter. Let's wrap this up. Take care, everybody. Thank you very much. [ Silence ]