[MUSIC] >> Man, morning Joe, sports at 5.9 in the fan bed and a spring gutting, good morning. >> I'd agree, it is a good morning, good morning, Beth. >> It's a very good morning for the Toronto Maple Leafs and Austin Matthews as they take care of a New Jersey Devils team that had all the boxes covered in packing tape before that game. T Times book clearly, Jack Hughes on the operating table, shoulder surgery, mathematically still alive, but they are done. >> Yeah, I just, I said this about Clayton Keller when he got hurt late in the season before, just like my heart weeps for a young man like that. I don't know that he's a golfer definitively, but I feel like he like swings the sticks on occasion, and shoulder surgery right before you go on vacation for an entire summer. >> Yeah. >> I know he's working, but yeah, it's tough. And boy, has there ever been a more waving of the white flag right before a game? Then I know he's not the captain, but like de facto captain, Jack Hughes. Yeah, we're done here right before a game against the Leafs who doesn't always feel like it, but the record in the last 30 games or so they've been basically a buzz saw. >> Yeah, they have, they've been a buzz saw. >> Austin Matthews has been, I mean, what's more effective than a buzz saw? Like a Katana sword? >> Or if you like put a whole bunch of them together and attached it to like a rotary song that we're spinning around and cutting things. >> I did share a video, it's just for you that joke, it's a joke for one person cuz I think I had those saw the messages that I was like, I'm not doing any kind of this. It's really just for you. It might have been during a break, during the show as far as you know, all right, could have been during the show that I shared a video of a Katana slicing up various tennis balls, baseballs, sausage. Anyways, yeah, that's what Austin Matthews has been over the last, I mean month, the whole season. Okay, so here's where he is right now, obviously with 66, most goals ever scored by an active player, right? Alex Ovechkin was a player by a goal, a player in his lifetime, yeah, which is stupid. >> It's all very stupid, okay, at least went 5-2, yadda yadda yadda, all right. So this season will be remembered as the Austin Matthews season, the regular season. Obviously this season will be remembered for whatever is to come. By the way, week from today, final day of the regular season, like we're there, man. >> Congratulations in advance to you. >> Yeah, I mean, we are there, it's crazy. You've got the devils on Thursday, you've got the red wings on Saturday, then what the panthers on Monday, and then the lightning on Wednesday, Tuesday, Wednesday, back to back. >> Yeah, Tuesday, Wednesday. Seven forbid the NHL not sneak one more in there before you're out. >> That's it. >> And then she's done. And then the real season starts, but yeah, this regular season will obviously be remembered for Austin Matthews, whatever number he ends up, right? Like he's obviously winning the rocket, but now four away from 70, but it'll be remembered for the number that he hits, but also the way he finished the season. Because let me take you back, okay? He was at 55 goals after game 67, needing 15 in his final 15 to get to 70. Right now he's 11 for his last 11. It's stupid, man, like, I think we all kind of had that same take, right? 11 games ago was like, well, that was nice while it lasted. The pace has obviously dropped off. Who could have possibly kept up that ridiculous pace? 60 something will be an amazing total. He just keeps scoring with like, there's no double shifting. >> No. >> There's a killing a penalty with an empty net where you have free rein to shoot at it. And he's not being forced in action. >> No. >> He's not playing 25 minutes a game chasing this number. Now I will say Max Domi is looking for him a lot. But guess what, Max Domi should be looking for him a lot because yeah, he puts the puck in the back. I mean, he did have Tyler Bertuzzi like all alone at the side of the net. >> That's okay. Bertuzzi stole the empty net. >> Yeah. >> Maybe that was smart because Bertuzzi was acting as the decoy, right? And then he finds Matthew, she scores number 66. It is the way this is happening. And that this conversation I thought was over about a month ago, and it's very much alive, four in the final four to get to 70. It's insane. >> It's not what he's doing. The fact that again, him scoring four goals to start his career, you thought it never got better than that. And it just seemingly has at every step of the way. We're not talking about this right now and rightfully so, but I just think we should pepper this in there whenever we're having these, these Matthews is an incredible goal scoring conversations. He's doing it well being an incredibly responsible, effective two-way center. That part cannot be overlooked. That is the part that makes it, okay, look, it'd be special if he was floating at the blue line and scoring 70 goals. It'd be special if he never sniffed his own D zone. But the fact that he's doing it this way does add a little to the accomplishment. You mentioned how much we keep bringing it up and we keep talking about it and it kind of went away. It's come back. I think the other thing about this is, and I know some of it is lip service, what are they going to say? But you heard the guys on the clips we were coming in, they want it now. This isn't, he's at 62 in 70s, eight away, and well, you know, he's going to cool off. No, they want it now. He's four away. It is right there for him. He can't go a game without scoring. I think that's the other thing about this is we've all had this conversation of, well, you know, Sheldon Keefe can be the bad guy and sit him down when he's at 67 goals. I do think it's going to, you know, I don't want to overstate it. It's not going to have some like mutiny effect in the room or anything, but the guys clearly want to say they played with 70 goalscore Austin Matthews. No kidding. I mean, and the race for the rocket, Richard trophy, it's cute, it's, it's, it's, hey, and Conor McDavid went down with what is described as a minor injury, no big deal sitting on 99 assists and maybe we'll get to that later on in the program, but yeah, the art Ross is a dogfight, right back and forth they go. And maybe the heart trophy race is a dogfight and I mean, we can talk about his undeniability if he gets the 70 66 goals for Austin Matthews. Remember the old Sam Reinhardt, hanging in there, he was hanging in there, right? He is 13 back now at 53. So yes, this is an era of increased scoring in the National Hockey League, no doubt. And yeah, hitting 60 ain't what it used to be after Austin Matthews was Roger Banister and broke through that 60 goal plateau a couple of years ago. And now everybody does it and Conor McDavid was 64 last season. But what he's doing this year, I mean, you can put it in historical context, but you can also put it in modern context, he's just blowing away the field and not, as you said, a one dimensional player, there are not enough words to describe what we've seen this season so far from him. >> No, it's not even close. And again, like look at the guys that are behind him and it's in the big time rear view mirror. Like he's squinted to see him. It's like even objects in the rear view mirror may be closer than they appear. They don't look that close to him. And you look at the way these guys score their goals and don't take this as me denigrating any 50 goals for him. There's no such daily and power play goals, 27 of them. >> Yeah, and Zach Hyman, we don't, we talked about this. He is a Chris Crider, 50 goal score. He is not a David Pasternak, 50 goal score. >> So you know what, Sam Reinhardt shooting, by the way, just to have to derail it. >> I have not seen it. But no, this is going to be an insane number, so give it to me. >> 24.1%, which is not going to surprise, leads the National Hockey League shooting percentage. >> I don't have it in front of me. I'm pretty sure that's a higher clip than Tage Thompson was at last year when he was on his heater of all heater seasons. And then again, Hyman, it's just a different game that he plays. I will not be denigrating Zach Hyman, but I'm not going to put him on the same plane as Austin Matthews. And then McKinnon, as special as he is, he has a hatchet class night to get over 50. And again, Matthews and McKinnon, they're the closest thing to the same animal on that page. But there's a 14, there are 15 goal gap between the two of them. It is nuts, what he's done in an era where, and I think this is the other thing, if we're going to talk about the, he broke the barrier, the McDavid and Pasternak get there. It means something that he's doing this in a season where there's not going to be another 60 goal scorer. We can look at McDavid and say, okay, again, there's no such thing as going, well, that's not actually a special 60 goal season. They're all special. But the fact that another guy did it, and you had the number of 50 goal scores you had in that season last year, it does, again, in the smallest of ways, like a grain of sand diminish it in the grand scheme of things when you're comparing it to other 60 goal seasons. There's not going to be another guy who sniffed 60 this year. Nathan McKinnon proved me wrong. He's the only one that terrified me. >> Yeah. I mean, Conor McDavid at one point away from 100 assists. >> Yeah. >> Nikita Kuchrov, only four assists away from 100 assists. >> Yeah. >> I mean, so, and we'll have that maybe that conversation later on in the program. >> Man, I have it so bad. >> I do because everybody else is having it. And it's like we're running out of time to have it because like, yeah, it'll be well trod ground by the time we get to it. >> I know you're talking about we're the tastemakers. >> True. >> I know everybody's waiting for our opinion on it. >> Yeah, they're like, they've been to validate more. >> I know. >> Just credit their opinions on it. >> They've been giving potentially wrong opinions have been given about this. We haven't spoke definitively yet. >> Yeah, we'll tell you. >> I wonder what happens if we disagree. That'll be interesting. >> I feel like we're gonna agree. >> And I can guess where your head's at. >> Shocker. >> All right, anyways, to the game, which again, you're not taking much from because, I mean, the game was close and Leafs had to come back, but watch the game nerd, like it was not close. Shot attempts at five on five were 61 to 34. >> Yikes. >> High-danger chances 12 to five in favor of the Toronto Maple Leafs. They dominated the great job by Jake Allen to keep the demos in that game. For long stretches. >> Bad job by blanking on it. I think Tom Fitzgerald, devil's general manager, not trading for Jake Allen 100 years ago. >> Yeah, no kidding. And again, we always do this of the Montreal Canadiens would have just immediately capitulated, but I feel like they probably wouldn't have capitulated if you would have stepped to the table with something for Jake Allen. >> Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay, sticking with Austin Matthews kind of sorta is another dominant game for that top line, right? Outscoring the devils at five on five, three to one, they had the majority of shot attempts. >> Yeah. >> But any of the Toronto Maple Leafs lines, this is like that, I know you're, we're not taking too much away from these games against, also Rans as we head towards the end of the season Saturday will be a big game because, yeah, Red Wings, still battling to get into a playoffs. >> I don't know. Maybe they'll have someone have shoulder surgery right before the game and wave the white flag on their seasons. >> I mean, sort of surprising. But yeah, the more we see in this, Brent, I guess I gotta do a meacalpa, like I think it's kind of undeniable now that you have to at least go into the postseason trying this game one. >> Yeah, I'm throwing you a curveball and I'm throwing the guys behind the glass of curveball. I see it. No, I agree wholeheartedly. I see it on the line up here, apparently, and I know this, he did to say it. I heard it. Sheldon Keef spoke about the top line. I think there's something interesting in there. So if we could just hear Keith clip three, guys. >> I was saying, obviously, he didn't feel his line and started the way they wanted to. What is to note to you about how they get it on track? Because, you know, Austin said they talk a lot and they kind of talk it out. >> Yeah, I see that the chemistry is really good. That way, definitely, you see that from them. I think they think they really enjoy playing together. You can see it in their play, but also think that because of the way they play, they have high expectations of themselves already, you know, and when it's not going well, like in the first period, you know, and they want to make adjustments, they want to have success. So, you know, I think that we saw that they were really good here tonight. Like our team, once the second period began offensively, we were fine defensively in the first period as well, but offensively, we had to get way more pace going to our game. And once we found our legs, it was very apparent in that line that the charge in that way. Two important things from that clip. The first one is, I can't believe you admitted this into a microphone, that the line started slow and they were able to find their footing pretty hard to immediately pull the shooting game. One of the playoffs, if that line is not working and going to Mitch Marner, that was immediately the thing that jumped out to me is for a coach. It was almost like he was putting himself on notice. He's like, hey, future Sheldon, you better not do this. These guys found their game after a wishy-washy start. And the other thing is him, again, this is not news to any of us, but I don't know, and again, it's all being, we read too much in all of this probably, but him talking about how much they like playing together. There is at least one other player on this team that would certainly, you know, like to kick one of those guys overboard and take his spot, looking at you, Mitch Marner, like there's no doubt that that's where Marner wants to play on this team. It's where he's had the most success success. The team has had a lot of success with them there, but I think it's pretty telling that Keith talked about one, how much they like playing with one another, and two, acknowledging the fact that just because the game didn't start the way he wanted, and it didn't, they were able to find it, and trusting that that line was going to be able to find it. Yeah, and the default is, well, yeah, anyone's going to have chemistry, anyone's going to enjoy playing with Austin Matthews is about to score 70 goals. False. False, false, false. I've seen guys play with Austin Matthews, who do not have chemistry with them. Well, looking at you, Tyler Bertuzzi, for the first two months of the season. And what I was going to add to that is also that like Domie and Bertuzzi have incredible chemistry. Yes. Domie waiting a hundred years to wait for that perfect split second, where he can feed the seam pass right across to Bertuzzi, who can pound it into the empty net. Those two dudes, the two guys that were acquired, yeah, because of their scoring prowess, but mostly because of the direction their game takes when mid-April, May, and God willing, June, hits, don't tell me. Those two dudes enjoy playing with each other, feed off each other, have similar type personalities, and then you got the 70 goal man in the middle there, who's defensively responsible, maybe covering up for some lapses that those two guys might have, but also getting some offensive zone starts. I guess it's, yeah, there's just no way now in the final four games. I don't care what we see here that you're not at least going into game one, what that is your top line. I can't imagine a world where it happens. I think the other thing that you have to mention when you talk about this, and I don't want to overstate it. I don't think it changes who Matthews is as a player or anything along those lines, but we brought this up after the Saturday, or on Monday's show after the Saturday game of just how much Matthews loves the rough stuff. And he doesn't love to do it. He likes to watch. He very, yeah, he's like, he loves you. He's awesome. Matthews likes to watch. Okay, just do with that what you will. But I think when you look at, when you look at Bertuzzi and Domi, having guys on the line who have more of that bite, jam, nastiness, it just, I, again, I don't know that it really changes anything about his game. I just know that he really likes it. He enjoys it. It's pretty clear. You know what expression is ringing in my head when you say that? Just to Matthews likes to watch is because that has not left my mind to you either. No, I know. I pass that. It's okay. I will never. We hear this oftentimes from head coaches getting dragged into the fight. Those guys are going to get into some scrums that are going to drag Austin Matthews into the fight. Yeah, right. And you don't want Austin Matthews only with Steven Samco, so that's the only guy or if Alex Seven comes back to the league, you can fight him too. Yeah. I'm taking an extra two for roughing or whatever and but it must be said that that I can see a scenario in the postseason where those two are engaged physically in Austin Matthews. Maybe he's not doing it to the same degree that they are, but he's not sitting idly by maybe just grabbing a guy. Maybe grabbing a guy hopefully at the very least not laughing when you get horse colored. No, take a mind his age worse than like, no, he's above the fray. How about getting it? How about that? We'll see. So Leafs obviously roll with a different lineup also on the back end of back to back. No, Iliya Labushkin, no Connor Doer in goes Nick Robertson, you know, it's, it seems pretty clear, especially with Cali Yarnkrock about to return you would think before the end of this regular season. And if that happens, and if that happens into the postseason that Nick Robertson's going to be in the outside looking in, which I don't even think is the worst thing in the world. Although Nick Robertson is doing the one thing that he's being asked to do, which is score and the limited opportunities that he gets and it's it's like every time he gets healthy scratch jumps back in in the next game and scores because that's all he does is score plays like a minute and a half a game and he scores in that minute and a half. But that there are different permutations of this lineup that can do different things. Hey, like, if you are struggling to put the puck in the back of the net, guess what? You just activate Nick Robertson, the whole family kill is struggling, incomes, Connor Doer. There are different ways you can organize your lineup for what you need. There's just a plethora of options for Sheldon Keefe when it comes to the forwards at his disposal. Yeah, there there is and not that Robertson needs this, but man, he must have loved looking at the lines and realizing it was going to be spread out across three lines as opposed to across two with him coming back, you know, no knock on the guys he's been playing with. But having William Neelander on your line certainly helps for a guy who's there to do one thing and one thing only and that's that's generate offense. You're right to mention the the different bodies they have. And again, kudos to true living. I talked about this yesterday, the idea of the different bodies you have. No, Gregor was a mainstay on this team until the deadline. He can't catch a sniff right now. He got in the game last night, but he's just he's an also ran with this team right now. And that's fine. That's what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to have guys. If you're a good team that are on your fourth line as the year starts and you whether it's internal improvement of your Bobby McMahon's coming up and grabbing a place or you make your trades like a Connor doer one, that's what's supposed to happen. Yeah, the Noah Gregor one's tough because it's like, Oh, well, Connor doer kills penalties and can play up the middle. Ryan raised punches guys in the face, Nick Robertson scores goals. Noah Gregor like skates real fast quick. All right, nice, good job by you. No, you're right. And then even even a guy like Matthew Nye's the fact that you might want to get to him. Yeah, yeah. The fact that you can throw him on a fourth line and no one thinks that's his home. But man, look pretty good there last night. Yeah, I did view that as a guy who's responding to the stick, not the carrot, right, which I kind of love. Yeah, I don't hate it. And a guy that I mean, I talked about being a potential healthy scratch for me, given my brother's game one of the of the postseason, which I don't think is likely, but it's not an outrageous situation, especially consider where he started the season where he's played the majority of the season where he finds himself now and where he found himself yesterday. Yeah, but clearly that was one of the most engaged games that Matthew Nye's has played this season and you can't help but put two and two together and look at a guy who is no longer playing next to Austin Matthews and Mitch Marner and might see the potential of a healthy scratch in the postseason and says, you know what? I don't want that guy. I want to prove that I'm not an also ran that I'm not well behind Bobby McMahon in the pecking order. Yeah, I think you would hope he responds that way. I also think there is an element that that devil's team is kind of perfect for him. They're all guys that are in a similar kind of age to him. He can play bully ball for lack of a better term that he can't quite honestly can't always play against some of the other teams. It's not that he's incapable of it. We've seen it against Pittsburgh, the the Holy Pittsburgh game with the Gordie Howe Hatcher. And I just think that it, I honestly look at it as a great sign that a player on this team responds to that. Let's say that no one's ever been, I mean, look at Nick Robertson, he is apparently the king of responding to the stick as opposed to the carrot scoring every time he comes back in the lineup. But what do we talk about with this team with this organization for this entire era is, you know, it's maybe overarching, but it's, oh, they're a little coddled. Everyone's a little comfortable. And from Matthew and I, it did feel like he was kind of in the express lane to joining that group of guys who just like, hey, come in, you're part of the team. There's never anything that you really have to not work for, but you're just going to have a spot. It's right here for you. You don't even have to take it. We're just going to give it to you. And I think it, it can only be a good thing for a young player like Nize. Again, if this was, if, if the cap crunch hadn't happened the way it did, we're looking at Matthew Nize as a guy who is, you know, coming out of college, maybe playing a handful of games with the Marley's to get his feet wet, doing the, not the Bobby McMammarow, because he came from the ECHL, but you know, like once he became a Marley, the Bobby McMammarow of having success down there, finding your game, I just think it bodes really well for the player that he does respond to this. Yeah. Well, I mean, it'd be really bad if, if it was like, oh, but don't act like we haven't seen that before. No, for sure. And not, not just here. I mean, go pick your sport. You care about where a guy, how many conversations that we had about baseball teams are like, well, this guy's not in the exact spot. He likes, that doesn't even, it doesn't really, it's a bigger conversation, but that affects you less than line mates you have to actually have chemistry with and the actual ice time you get. So we get this all the time. As much as he was a star before he ever skated on a national hockey league ice surface because of the organization, because of Leafs, yeah, that he plays for. And the fact that he was, yeah, it was a rising prospect and looked like found money in the second round. Yeah. He doesn't feel entitled and he's been given an opportunity, right? Like, right out of the, out of the chute, he gets to play with Austin Matthews and Mitch Marner. It hasn't been like an abject disaster or anything, it has 15 goals. But yeah, Bobby McMahon has won that and yeah, Tyler Bertuzzi is Tyler Bertuzzi and is now 20, which is unbelievable considering where we were with this guy a couple of months ago. So I think you got it like, and I know you're not doing this, but should mention this that, you know, I, I should hope by the time, and I know the org hopes this, that by the time Matthew Nye's is 26 or 27 year old, years old, whoever old Bobby McMahon is, they hope he's doing at least this. And that's not to say anything's promised by that, but it's just, I do sometimes think with a guy who he's a little older because of the college stuff. And this isn't me making excuses of like he's still young, but it's, this is what you see from a rookie. He's a rookie, but three games last year. And that's it. And playing this many games, over a course of this few days, 60 games last year, whatever it was. Yeah, no, no, no, it's a fine rookie season. It's just, yeah, it's tough because you play on the team with all the great young players right out of the shoot and the greatest goal scorer in the history of the game. So it's tough. Yeah, everybody's bar is raised for him and why is he not a 30 goal 60 point guy already? What's wrong with this? No, he's normal. Our play still looks awful. It's just not good. I don't, I, they allowed the goal on the penalty kill, which I think it's better. And Joel Edmondson is going to be back maybe by tomorrow. It seems. We shall see. I think there's been real demonstrable improvement on the penalty kill power play, not just not scoring yesterday. And I know they had the goal Austin Matthews goal in the game previous right off a draw that was not, that, that did not buoy my belief in this power play because he scored off a set play because he's Austin Matthews. It's just like process wise, they're not creating anything. If there's one thing to take away from that game on the negative side of it, to me it's the power play. I agree. I think the reason why the power play is a problem is in years past and this is more, this isn't a thing for a Tuesday game or a Thursday game against the Devils that quite frankly doesn't mean a thing. This is a thing for the playoffs or for your high stakes game. You can go back to a couple of weeks ago against Florida would have, would have counted then is that the power play doesn't have to score. It has to score occasionally, right? It cannot be a momentum generator for the other team. And so often with the Leafs in the playoffs, that has been the issue that the other team takes a bat. Let's just call it Tampa. Tampa takes a bad penalty and this should be the death now where you go up to on them and you really kind of can put your throat and all of a sudden you generate nothing. And if it's at home, the energy gets sapped out of the building. If it's on the road, they get a big, big jolt from it. That has been the thing that is nuked the Leafs. It's not actually been that they have scored three to two few power play goals in a series. That's not what sunk them, in my opinion. It's been the fact that so often the other team going on the penalty kill has been what's tilted the game in their favor and you just, you cannot have that. You don't need to score, you got to generate looks and you got to tilt the ice. Yeah, it's just like, there's not enough movement, there's not enough passing, not enough shooting, there's not enough anything. No. It just does not look good. What would you say? You do. It's just that. It's not great. And then finally, for me at least, Joseph Wall, you needed that, like he wasn't outstanding by anything. Yeah, there's, he wasn't outstanding by any stretch of the imagination and expected goals for five on five for the devil's is about why don't you give up one? It's fine. Did the job, you, you, it's clearly Ilya Sampsonov getting the first kick of the can in the postseason. But what you couldn't have is being terrified of the potential and maybe inevitable injury that is coming to Ilya Sampsonov, right? You can't have. No, you needed Wall to have the bounce back again. It's the breakaway. It's the, it's the other rebound goal there. You're not going to kill him for, for either of those. And yeah, you needed just to him to find some comfort. We know the Leafs have 500,000 NHL goalies all of a sudden with Martin Jones poking around and Matt Murray allegedly wandering the wilderness. I love how they didn't even send Sampson off to New Jersey. Great. He stayed at home. Yeah. He's got a kid. Let him hang out. Yeah. Although I don't know. Like young kid, maybe it's like, can I please go? The team needs me. I don't have to dress, but like, can I go and stay in my five star hotel? Yeah. Mm. Got to be honest. Feel like the team didn't dirty there. Probably should have, should have signed him. A couple, a couple other ones for me. How dare you? Simone Benoit, Jake McCabe. I spent the entirety of yesterday's show riding to you in the middle, immediately right through the middle. It happens. It's not the end of the world, but it was just, that was tough for me personally. And as you, you know, you're a believer in this as well as like, you know, you want to, want to have like good takes, but being right, nothing better than that. Yeah. And those guys doing me dirty after I again spent 40 minutes pouting the table that that is your shut down parrot. You cannot deviate from that. Yeah. It's just tough. It was tough. Yeah. And that was a weird play because you were in position and you just let like, they're just standing by the board, the captain skate right through the middle of you. If I could make a request, not that in the playoffs, please, please, please. And the goal, the disallowed John Tavares poke the pad. Yeah. We're going to see a goal like that in the playoffs. So it just, I think that should have counted. I mean, it was weird. I don't like, Jake Allen kind of sorta had it under his glove kind of, I didn't really see a definitive angle that made me that passionate one way or. Yeah. This is not me banging the overhead. Like it did seem like it was at least possibly under the glove. And my in my NHL where I love scrums and stuff after the whistle and playoff, pugnacity and all that, that's a good goal. And I'm not just saying that because it was a Leafs goal. And although I know no one out there believes me, sure, but in my NHL, especially at this time of year, like this is October all year, he was covering it, sure, but we're getting a playoffs now. Yeah. He may have been covering it, but guess what? Not enough. John Tavares's stick was there first, right? So doesn't he get president? Yeah, this is like the second stick was there first, except with Bobby McMahon, the puck was there first. So it's like he was saved from the high stick and pedal leaf and so the inverse of that. Yeah. All right. Obviously I guess we'll swing back around to the Toronto Maple Leafs, but coming back, the Blue Jays, you know, they look watchable offensively and Chris Bassett is back and allowed to throw 300 pitches. What's up with that? Blue Jays unbeaten at home. That and Mornax is the fan morning show continues. And it's Brent Gunning, Sportsnet 590, the fan. Hey, it's Aelish Forafar. And I'm Justin Cushford. Join us as we discuss the most important sports stories of the day and tee up the biggest games of the night. It's the fan pregame, 6 p.m. weekdays on Sportsnet, Sportsnet 590, the fan, and wherever you get your podcasts. Fan Morning, Sportsnet 590, the fan, man, and it's Brent Gunning. Blue Jays head into this afternoon's game in the best spot you can be in regular season baseball. Already securing yourself a series victory. It's looking for the sweet. Yeah. Just like, well, a cherry on top. You've already got the Sunday. That's right. It's just like, can you get the extra accoutrement, like sprinkles? Maybe, oh, you know what's the best in ice cream? Are those chunks of like chocolate chip cookie dough? Yeah. Like, can you throw that on top of the sun? The Sunday is already going to be delicious. You're going to enjoy eating it. If you want to talk about the Blue Jays, you should move on here. So I'll be doing 40 minutes of hot Sunday topping talk. I am Tony Sperado, just grabbing a bowl of ice cream. Get the whipped cream going. Do you do like banana split? No, I don't. Come on. It looks like it comes from the earth. The banana. Okay. I'm out. Michael's basically no vegetables, baby. I'm not a big banana. I actually don't mind a banana, a muckling. I don't. My hand fruit are, well, it's an apple and it's oranges, but I do eat a banana a day in my smoothie. And that's the end of my point, which there wasn't one. Doesn't keep the doctor away. I think it's good. I think potassium is good for you. Why does big apple get all the credit? Well, that's a good question. Because you don't have to, you don't have to peel it. I think it's the key there. It's simpler. Okay. I'm just saying like I'm on the lookout for big apple. They're not giving banana enough credit. Anyways, last thing on the banana, how do you peel it? Like like the monkey, you pinch the bottom. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I think like you're an insane person. If you take it where the stem is and pull it down, why didn't I just once you've done it from the other end of once, you're like, Oh, well, yeah, obviously, this is how you open a banana. It did grow up like, sorry, mom, if you're listening, but it's like, I don't know, like why I was learning my whole life of like, yeah, fight with this top part. No, no, give it a little pinch or like you like cut like a slit in it. Like why are you doing that? Yeah. Cause I say, like I just have the worst fine motor skills of all time. It's like, I've never eaten an orange of my own volition because it's like, how am I going to get in there? I would never know. So, so what am I? It's four knocks. Wait a minute. I got no nails. I got there's nothing I can do to get in there. It's like, I definitely have cut a banana in my day before I knew the little pinch technique at the bottom. Anyways, that is to say that the blue jays beat the Mariners five three, they're back at five hundred, which is also like a sigh of relief. They haven't lost never lost at home this season after a disappointing home record a season ago seats seats fixed at all. Yeah. They're so shiny. That's why they hit a home run yesterday and they had 11 hits just like they didn't game one of the series, but they only scored five runs. It does feel like an offensive explosion though. Yes. They've had to get out of some high leverage jams late in both games and more specifically yesterday is Chad Green has to come in on back to back days after throwing 20 plus pitches in game one of the series and did a great job shutting down the Mariners. It is funny how the bar offensively for this team is that it's like, that's good enough. That's all we're asking for. And it's not even the total number of runs. It's that you don't feel helpless. And those are, I mean, yes, are the Mariners starters off to slow starts counting that wise? Sure. Those are good pitchers. Blue Jays are, are, are very capable, look very capable offensively in these two games against, well, the top two starters in this Mariners rotation, you're not going to tell me at the end of the season, Luis Castillo's numbers are going to look like they look right now. That's a good starting pitcher and the Blue Jays don't look helpless. Like the bar is, hey, don't look helpless and they have it. Yeah. And so I know that this isn't the point you're making, but it's the one I'm choosing to tease out a last night's game that you need to have the pop in there. It is just too hard in 2024 with the idea that you're just going to string together a bunch of singles and walks and bloop your way. It can happen on a night here in a night there, but that's no way. It's no way to live life, Ben. It really isn't. And just seeing some pop, some sting, and yeah, I'm talking about the Beshette Homer, but you just, you need to see more of that. And I think that is what in terms of the hope factor, just seeing some hits with some sting, I think allows you to feel a bit of that because the offense, it has its issues in terms of construction one through nine, but so much a part of it is just the lack of pop, quite honest. I am more than done mattingly camp when it comes to that. Like, yeah, you are right. You would like to hit home runs because it's a very effective way to score runs. The most effective. Yeah. And I don't necessarily think it kills rallies. I'm not saying Homer. I'm not saying that. I'm not saying Homer, your weight of victories. I'm saying you need to mix in some doubles here as well as no, no, no, no, no, no, okay. No, if everybody had 20 home run power in this lineup, that would be the best. I just don't see it. Right? Like, you're right. No. They didn't hit a home run in game one of the series. And still, I mean, that's the reason why they only scored five runs despite 11 hits. They only hit one home run yesterday and it was a two run home run off the bat of Boba Shat after an incredible hit bat by George Springer, which was the play of the game. After Dalton Varshow comes up with the base hit hitting ninth, I mean, I'm old enough to remember when he was the five hole hitter on this team and now playing sparingly and when he's into the game, he's hitting nine, any who put him behind the plate, any who he gets the base hit and then he's wreaking havoc on the base pass and, you know, he got starter forgetting how many disengagements he's got and George Springer with a double digit pitch plate appearance in which he lashes a base hit up the middle, scores Dalton Varshow. That's cool. That's amazing. That's really hard to do. I mean, what Boba Shat did is also hard to do, but it's the easiest way to create offense. I just, unfortunately, I don't think the Blue Jays have enough of that in this lineup. So they're going to have to do the thing where they work starters, which is another part of it too, right? Like I mentioned, the pitches per plate appearance stat that the Blue Jays have put forth this season being a top five team in all of Major League Baseball and that being part of their offensive arsenal, that's going to pay dividends throughout the course of a regular season, but over the course of a game as well, getting into a team's bullpen, especially at the beginning of a series, right, like you wear out those, those relievers and you get the starter out of the game. That's, I think that's more the path to this team creating offense than the thing that you're right would be better hitting a bunch of home runs that I just, I don't see a path to this team doing that. No, I, I agree with you. The path that this team has to taste, take to success is what you talk about. It's the 11 pitch at bat. It's the work in a walk. It's the couple of blue singles and all of a sudden, you know, you go first to third and you've got a runner in scoring position. That is the recipe for this team, but that's why it's going to be so hard to score runs this year. And that is why five feels like the dam breaking. Like I think we're, we're, we're in agreement's just kind of like, we're, we're across the fence screaming about how right we both are. Yeah. And we're both right. Well, and, and watching Boba shed hit that home run and obviously like nobody was freaking out at the start Boba shed had, but I will say watching the Yankees at Yankee stadium and thinking about how terrifying the middle that order is with Juan Soto and Aaron judge going back to back belly to belly and thinking, oh boy, do do opposing pitchers feel the same way about the Blue Jays mentally line up and maybe not now, but yeah, Boba shed when he gets hot, he's going to feel that way for this Blue Jays team. And when the offensive bar is as low as we, I still think it is considering the quality of the starting rotation and the quality of the defense, like one guy getting as hot as Boba shed can get might be enough at times for this team offensively. Well, and just because of, because of what's around him, but she's hot is going to feel volcanic. Like it's not there'll be nice months for him that feel transcendent because it's just like the drop of water in the desert, quite honestly, and like, I know that's overstating it a little, especially when the guy directly behind him has a over 1000 OPS right now. Not that I expect that to hold necessarily, but I think that that's the other part of it as well is just, you know, you can be, we've said a million times you can be as high on one through four as you want, or if you want to include one through five last night with, with Schneider there, but it's just going to be what's at the bottom of the lineup that's going to continue to hold this team. But the very bottom of the lineup, as I mentioned, is Dalton Varsho, who again, like, started the season not hitting clean up, which was so detrimental to him mentally, that it was extremely responsible for the offensive downturn he had at the plate and playing at home his first time at a new organization. Yeah, it was just too much on his plate last season. So we bumped him down one spot in the order. Obviously would change everything. Yeah, it didn't. And as much as John Schneider said, hey, we're not changing our plans just because of a couple of games early in the season. Well, here we are in game number 12. He's hitting ninth. David Schneider is making back-to-back starts for the first time this season against right-handed starting pitching. I did understand the consistency thing and yeah, you kind of had me with that. If that was your game plan. So what happened? We're just, we're done with that, so they play 162 of these things. Every day for six months. Ten games was enough for you to deviate from your, hey, we got to have a consistent lineup. Guys have to know when they're playing, where they're playing, you're like, yeah, but also I think we've seen enough here in this small sample to know that Dalton Varsho shouldn't be hitting in the middle of our lineup and David Schneider should be getting more played appearances, which I agree with. But like you're talking about both sides of your mouth. I think, I think part of it is that obviously they're just like, they've invested in the player in terms of, you know, like money that they actually can. But it's marine. Like let's not overstate, let's not like try to reinvent the wheel as to why, why they're so invested in this guy. They're going to give it the chance. I'm going to commend them for moving off it as quickly as they did. This makes me have questions about the off season, but guess what? I had all those questions before I saw Dalton Varsho penciled in at five to start, to start spring training or start the season. So that's the way I kind of look at it is it was it to me is them, it's them realizing just where they have to go with the player. And that's not to say that I guarantee you they hope that this is a well, you know, we'll reset them, we'll get them down there, take all the pressure off them and, you know, he'll be able to refine himself. That's not going to happen. I do think that's probably some version of a story they're telling themselves. But yeah, this is what you have to do. You have to put forward your best foot. And right now that, well, not right now, never, that will be Dalton Varsho hitting fifth. Yeah, and it's one thing to, and you can't criticize Isaiah kind of for left as offense now as the three game yesterday is hitting over 300. But yeah, it's one thing to have a two year investment in a player and like right out of the hop, you're going away from him. It's quite another to have, as you pointed out, the investment that they have in Dalton Varsho having seen him for a full season, that carrying over into the next season, like at a certain point, it's not like some cost, it's not like they're getting rid of Dalton Varsho, but at a certain point, you're like, well, we can't undo the trade. Trade happened. It's part of the team. He has value, but the value isn't what we thought it was, especially offensively. And we're getting closer to the point. It seems in yesterday's lineup and indication of such that even against righties, it's either either he or Kevin Kiermer playing in the game center field if David Schnauger's playing left field, because despite the fact that he went over, I think we can understand the offensive value that David Schnauger brings to this Blue Jays team, and it's something they sorely need. >> I'm the guy who started this segment saying they need guys who can have pop. He has some, so yes, they need to get them in the lineup. Are you good on the offense? You want to talk about Bassen now? >> We got to talk about Chris Bassett, who very much needed that. I mean, more than Joel, Joel needed a crumulent start, and he got it against the Devils, but Chris Bassett needed a good start, and he would got more than that, he was outstanding. >> Although was, I guess surprising is the word I want to use that he came back out for the seventh inning being already over 100 pitches. >> Is there a better word than surprising about that to state more shock? >> Yeah, but it's also encouraging in a way, I'm so pitch count, killed by Major League Baseball in 2024. Like he threw 115 pitches, it's fine, he can tell the trainer if he's training, and not all pitches are made equally, right? It wasn't like he was in a million jams, he did have a number of ace runners and an issue with a couple of walks, but it's Chris freaking Bassett, you would think he would know his body. But we just had the Saturday to end all Saturdays with UCL injuries, right? >> I'm so conditioned by the sport in 2024, that, yeah, my hair stands on, my goodness, he's starting an inning, being over 100 pitches in 2024, excuse me. >> Well, it is also one day removed from Schneider getting like wrongfully booed for taking out burrios, but we all said, well, is that 101 pitches? What do you want him to do? And he goes you why? Yeah? You want me to do? >> Yeah. >> This, hound dog back out there. The element of that, I think there's an element of who the player is, not just that he prides himself on being able to throw as many pitches as he does, or we know how big a thing it was for him to get over the 200 inning hump last year. But I also think that was a chance, and again, different players need different things. If that's just to pick on a guy, if that's you say Kakuchi, I think you go, all right, let me shake your hand, and let me get you out of here after six, but I think for Bassett, he's a bit more of that gamer type pitcher, where it's just about what we say leading into the start, spit and guile and finding a way. And I think for a guy who has not had the start of the season, the way he's wanted to give him an opportunity to do that in, look, they all matter, they're all one of 162. But if you want to get him back on the right foot, giving him a chance to go out and do that, I think there is some element to that that had to go into the equation as well. Yeah, he's, he's going to be a huge part of where the Blue Jays want to go this season. And also it should be stated that clearly there was a couple of guys that were not available out of the bullpen yesterday. Well, that, yeah. Yeah, I mean, Mitch White was there, but yeah, he was warming up behind Chad Green. Like if Chad Green couldn't get it figured out in the ninth, Mitch White was was the guy wearing the cape that was going to get into that game and try to lock it down. Thank you, Chad Green, for figuring out and not want to see that. I had Chad Green again throwing more than 20 pitches in that game. I think Chad Green not available. Yeah, probably not. But yeah, picking up a second save of the season, this is, I mean, again, not to pat myself on the back and watch the bullpen implode today. But yeah, for a team to lose its closer and its set up, man, to feel as comfortable as I did about the bullpen going into the season, it's not many teams can do that. The Chad Green signing, I mean, it was a risky one. It was a weird contract. Right? You had a bunch of options, but a guy that you knew upon signing wasn't going to be healthy for you for a while and then got healthy and looked like Chad Green. And then you opted into the second part of this deal. I mean, where would the Blue Jays be without Chad Green, who doesn't have like a whole season of closing experience, but yeah, being a set up man or getting like the rare save opportunity in the Bronx for the New York Yankees is all you need to know about a guy's mental fortitude to be able to get out of jams like he was able to get out of yesterday. Yeah, maybe you tell me if this is completely unfair, but the way I feel with Chad Green in a spot versus Yumi Garcia is night and day and with Garcia, you it's almost, it's almost like our are Elia Samsonov goalie test of like, all right, I just need one pitch and then I kind of know where this thing is going with him with green, maybe the ceiling. And it's not that there's a lack of ceiling for him, but there's just such a much higher floor. You kind of know what you're going to get. And unlike you who can have your victory lap that you just took ruined by the bullpen today, I don't think Chad Green's available. My victory lap can't be ruined because Adam is my ex-factor to start the year. Yeah, well done by you. I know I'm a genius. No, he's very good. I wonder like right out of the shoot of Jordan Romano gets thrown in to save opportunities and I don't necessarily think this is a Wally Pips situation. I feel like the narrative around Jordan Romano is that he's a little more high wire than he's actually been over the course of his career being Blue Jays closer. But I will say, not a lot of teams have great backup options. No, the Blue Jays do. They have, hey, one guy goes through a slump and God, we get so married to these roles. The idea that one guy's going and the other guy's not, it's not the worst thing in the world. It is for their agents and arbitration hearings for Jordan Romano. If he doesn't get the counting stat of the save, which is very important in those things, but yes, it's as far as what's best for winning baseball games is okay to split them up between those two dudes. Yeah, and good teams have this. Eventually, a good team has somebody who does sort itself out and really put themselves atop the pecking order. But this is what good teams have is lots of options. What did the Blue Jays do at the deadline? They go out and get Hicks and he never really entered the equation. But he had his chance to lock down some games at the end because you want to have different types of levers and different options. One last one before we get out of here, just back to Bassett for a second. I was watching the post game and the like knife fight between Buck, Sittle and Caleb for which one of Bassett's pitches they pitches they most liked. I forgot who had one. It was like, bucks like, well, you know, I like the way that cutter was going. And then Caleb liked what he liked the curve ball. Yeah. And then, and then it was, I think it was Sittle who I will side with here who liked the sinker the most. But it was just, it was hilarious to see. It was just the most inside baseball just arguing about which guy who threw 115 pitches was incredibly effective. Which pitch was the most effective in this part is that some nerds going to come here today and be like, here's the right answer. I won't see it. I'll never see it. Like, I'll never see what the right answer to that question was. I just want to live in a world where Buck, Caleb and Joe just just go at it. For me, I like the aesthetic of a slow curve ball being dotted in the outside corner. I am a, I'm always a sucker for a cutter. Like, if you got a nasty cutter, I'm a, I'm a sucker for it. All right. Yeah, I didn't know that about you. All right. Thanks for that. And happy. All right. When we come back, finally, the world will know our opinion on what is more valuable or more impressive, a hundred assists or 70 goals. That and more next is the fan morning show continues. Ben Annis Brent Gunning, SportsF 590, the fan.
