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(upbeat music) - Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. - Yay, choo, choo! - Oh, yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrogale, I'm here with my co-host. - Great, I'm Jimmy Wissman. - There you go, he almost forgot. We almost lost you there for a second. Thank you, folks. So much for joining us. All aboard the murder train. - Here it is. - We got some wild stuff today. Just a crazy guy, what's doing some crazy stuff. So we will get to that very quickly. First off, shut up and give me murder.com. Get your tickets for live shows. If you're listening to this in early release, like right when it comes out, you can still get to either Sacramento or San Francisco, San Francisco the next night more likely. If you're listening to it regular, then don't worry about those shows, they're already over. But you wanna strap in and get ready for the 420 virtual live show. - It's going. - April the 20th, it's a Saturday night, and you can get it for two weeks after that. You can watch it a hundred times, you can do whatever you want with it. Just like a live show, except you're in your living room anywhere in the world. We have these weird costumes 'cause we're doing a whole 420-themed thing. - It's a whole themed thing, come on. - I have a weird smoking apparatus for Jimmy to get freaked out by, it's gonna be so much fun. Shut up and give me murder.com is where you get all of that. Then also patreon.com/crimeinsports, which is the name of our other podcast, that you should be listening to 'cause it's great. You don't have to like sports. Check it out, crime in sports. Also check out your stupid opinions. - Oh! - Our other podcast, which is the funniest hour that exists in podcasts. So check that out. But Patreon, anybody $5 a month or above, you are gonna get the whole back catalog, hundreds of episodes, immediately. New episodes every other week. This week, we're gonna talk about, for crime in sports, on Patreon, the trials and tribulations of Hulk Hogan. - Hulk Hogan. - We've all heard of Hulk Hogan. His kid killed people, he called people the N word, he's got, he sued Gawker for $100 million, his best friend recorded him and sold his sex tape. He's had a weird life, we'll talk all about that stuff. Then for small town burger. - Burger? - Small town burger. - Small town burger. - Small town burger. Back by popular demand, we are gonna do small, weird small town festivals, 'cause those are so much fun and it's been a long time since we've done one, 'cause they're a real pain in the ass to put together. But we're doing it this week. It doesn't matter, I'm gonna do it there. That's patreon.com/crimeinsports and you get a shout out at the end of the regular show. - Let's go. - That said, I think it's time everybody. - Yeah. - I think it's time to sit back. What do you say, people, let's settle in, let's all clear the lungs, arms to the sky, and let's all shout. - Shout out! - Shout out! - Give me murder! - Give me murder! - Let's do this, what do you say, everybody? - Okay. - Let's go on a trip, shall we? - Let's do it. - Let's get in the car, Jimmy. We're headed this week to Woodward, Oklahoma. - Woodward. - Woodward, Oklahoma. This is in Western Oklahoma. It is the county right before the panhandle starts. So if you kept driving, you go right into that Oklahoma panhandle there. - They don't wanna save their part of that panhandle. - No, but they are. - They're close enough. It's close enough, and based on the behavior of this man, there's some panhandle behavior in this area, boy. So this is about two hours and 15 minutes to Oklahoma City. It's about four and a half hours to Gans, Oklahoma, which is our last Oklahoma episode, episode 435, Laughing Torture and Lies, which was a wild one. Oklahoma always has crazy murders. This is the home of Phillips, Oklahoma, which is one of the craziest cases we've ever done ever. - It's disgusting, yeah. - Episode 60 or 61, something, it's insane. Check that out. This is Woodward County, Oklahoma. The household income here, median household income is about $50,000 per year, which is less than the national average by about 20,000. Median home price, though, super low, $143,600. - Now you're talking. - That's a lot. And the motto here, energy for life. - Yeah. - Yeah. - It comes from the sky in a twisty fashion. - Real thing, yeah. If we have something to capture that power, we'll get it. - Yeah. (laughs) - Our homes have wings. - All of they should be easier. That's what we do. Rather than build them more sturdy and closer to the ground and all that, just put wings on 'em. - Just make 'em aviation? - And make property just like a shifting thing. You know what I mean? Like, wherever, if you land somewhere, that's yours now. And if somebody landed on your lawn, that's theirs now, and it's fine. - Reclaimable. - Yeah, it'll be fun. You know what? It'll be like, "Oh, it's an adventure. "Where are we gonna end up, kids? "What school district are we gonna end up in?" A good one, let's hope so. - Yeah. - Fingers crossed. - We're gonna get a nice one. - We might get a better one. It's like, we might get a better neighborhood. - Bet they have better lunches over there. - Oh shit. The city of Woodward was established in 1887. - Yeah. - This was at the junction of the Fort Reno Military Road and the Southern Kansas Railway Way. - By the military road and the railway. - In the railway. - That's where we lived. - On the South Bank of the North Canadian River, which is nowhere near Canada or the North. So I don't understand any of this. So they became a big place to load cattle to be sent to Eastern markets from all around there. Here, Woodward has served as the, it's the county seat of Woodward County. In 1893, it was known as one of the wildest towns in the West. - Wildest. - Wildest. At one time, this is a small place. It had 23 saloons and 15 brothels on one street. - Tombstone existed. - Nowhere near this much. - And in this place is it. - 23 saloons and 15 brothels. - Sodden and Gomorrah. - Yeah. - This is it. - Yeah, 'cause Deadwood's like, we're a mining town. We also wanted people want to drink and have brothels. This is, this is, we drink and sell women here. That's our-- - For nothing. - We have no other reason to be here. - That's it. - One resident said in 1944 that Woodward's Eastern aggressiveness and Western hospitality combined to enthrall you with the fact that, quote, Woodward is the town you've been wishing for, dreaming of and looking for. - The town is a grudge fuck. That's what it is. - Yeah, you're gonna get that. You're gonna get it lacking. - Big fuck. - So reviews of this town, let's find out what other people think. Five stars, I love living in Woodward. I mean, it's definitely a small town compared to Enid or OKC. - Well, if you're gonna throw Enid in the mix, obviously it's-- - But Enid. - No, who's bigger than Enid, yeah. But that's what I love about it. I love that we've started having events on Main Street. I love all the little shops downtown. They're owned by some really good people. - Are they? - I bet they are, that's great. Three stars, this is, or two stars, this is a long one, so I'm gonna skip around here. Where I am from is perhaps one of the hottest spots in the nation, as far as drug trafficking goes. - Oh. - I doubt that. There is a San Diego, so I've calmed down. - There are ports. - Yeah. A few years back, many of the police were involved in a scandal where many of them were smuggling drugs and firearms back into the street from the evidence locker. That's 'cause they make 38 grand a year and live in a small town. - Yeah, that's not one of the hottest, via the evidence locker, that's your fucking hall? - This gets better, yeah. - Well, they did that in the '70s. They sold all the pizza connection heroin pounds and pounds of heroin when they went back to look at it years later, it was all flour. The cops had stolen it and sold it all. That's what they do, it's normal. - But it's not a fucking, it's not Fort Knox of heroin. You know what I mean, eventually that runs out. - Yeah, but while it's there, you can always get more. You bust people more and sell that. They're gonna sell it to somebody. This person says, "My father, who's a local attorney, had shown great concern over this matter, which others tended to ignore. Our house was set a fire." Jesus. "And calls were made to our house, giving death threats to my father and myself." Holy shit, that's wild. When our house was set a fire, we were returning home from a football scrimmage of mine and we were able to put out the fire after we called 911. Holy shit, that same year our house was broken into numerous times and my father taught me to be vigilant and aware of my surroundings at all times. At this point in my young teenage life, the last thing I wanted to worry about was police in my hometown, who I had never done any harm to, wanted to now hurt me and my family. Holy shit, man, that is wild. And then finally, two stars, small oil driven town that isn't seeing its best days of quality of life in recent years, declining town, which a lot of them are. Things to do here, okay. Tell me all about it. Well, I found something to do, the Sand Plum Festival. Sand Plum. Why the fuck, okay, I love a plum. I love a plum, they're juicy, they're delicious. Why the fuck would you put the word sand in there, which now makes it sound like they're sand in it and it's not juicy and delicious, it's really stupid. Sand plums and coal apples. Yeah, I want a nice coal apple. I like a dirt tater, you like them dirt taters? They're just full of dirt, kind of an open dirt comes out. I like scumbaries. Yeah, I'm a big into a scumbary, that's fucking gross. I like a jizz melon, you open it. It's pretty disgusting, it smells like bleach and everything, but it's just delicious and not a lot of seeds. You wouldn't think there was more seeds in there, but it's seedless. You'd think so, yeah, it's all seed, really. It's all seed, but it's not, it's weird. It says celebrate the sweet flavor of the sand plum at the sand plum celebration here. It's a competitive, a culinary competition, pageant races all in celebration of this native fruit. Yeah. There's, after the races, the sand plum scoot 5K and 10K sand plum scoot. After the races, stop in to see the Miss Sand Plum pageant. That's what you want to be, I miss sand plum. It's judged some girls. Where entrance of all ages, compete to be named Miss Sand Plum Queen and Miss Sand Plum Princess. Quilters can choose to enter their latest creations as well in a quilt competition, not the other one. And also, you're gonna see there's some bands here who is out here. Let's see, the quilt show, gotta get there for the quilt showcase. Looks like it's all gonna culminate here at seven o'clock with Dax Perrier's concert. Yeah. Dax Perrier. This is a big, big star. Mr. Sand Plum over there. So, that said, let's talk about a murder now that we know where we are. We're in a small, small Western Oklahoma town. Crazy, Poe Donk America. Yeah, not a lot of people here at all. It's very low. So, let's talk about this right now. Go back to 1974. Oh my, okay. September of 1974, which, so this is like the real West back then. Yeah, it's hot. I mean, it's a different time. It's 50 years ago for Christ's sake. Let's talk about the Thrasher family, just like Thrasher, like the magazine. Mervin Thrasher, he's the dad and the husband here. He's 28 years old. He's got a 27-year-old wife named Sandra. Really? He does, and they have two children. Now, one is five-year-old. I've seen her listed as both five and seven, I'm not sure, but at more places, say five. So, five-year-old Penelope goes by Penny. Yeah. So, Penelope Thrasher and little 18-month-old Robert Thrasher. So, they have a nice little family, a boy, and a girl. I mean, it's just, you know. Okay, that's the last name. They're doing, they're the Thrashers, man. We fucking Thrasher. Bad. That's a fucking name. They, as of late August '74, they have only lived in Woodward since January. They're new. Oh. To the area. He worked for the Michigan, Wisconsin, pipeline company, which has somehow has worked in Oklahoma. In Oklahoma. Makes no sense. In Wisconsin. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe they're taking oil from here. I have no idea how it's working. That's why it's energy for life, because it's oil in those places. So, in late August, Mervyn reports a rifle stolen from his house. Oh, shit. Yeah. Twenty-two rifles. Someone entered the house during the day when nobody was home and took the rifle and a few other things that we'll talk about as well, especially some silver dollars. Okay. Now, so he's pissed off at that. He's like, I moved to a fucking small town and I'm getting my shit stolen. He just got, he's been there less than a year. You're already getting your house broken into what kind of shit hole place is this, he's thinking. So, he reported the rifle stolen to the police, reported the break in and everything. So, September 2nd, 1974. He's got his boss at work named Bob Patis, P-A-T-E-E. And I guess he, this Bob had called Melvin Thrasher to come to work. First time he called him was 4.30 in the morning and told him to come on down to work. If you call me at 4.30 in the morning and ask me to be anywhere, I'm gonna crack up hysterically and then hang up on you. Here's the thing. I'm not answering of 4.30 in the morning. I might be up, but I'm about to go to bed, so. We'll talk later. Melvin, though, got up and went to work to help him. It was Labor Day weekend, so this is all overtime. This isn't even, he doesn't even have to be there. He's just saying, I need help, will you come in and help me? So, he does. He went to work and helped him repair an engine and then came home again. Okay. So, he comes back home again, then at 8 a.m., he called again. Mike, Christ, I just got home. Come on back here. So, Melvin told Bob that he couldn't come in for a couple of hours. Yeah, you can't get there right away. You got some shit going on here. I'm tired. Between 5 and 8 a.m., some stuff came up. Yeah, remember I was working earlier with the engine? I've already been there at 4.30. He never shows back, never shows up, though. Okay. But it's Labor Day weekend and the employees are not required to work overtime. Yeah. So, he's asking a lot of people to come in and they're like, not coming in or maybe I'll come in and they don't, they don't have to be there. So, Bob said he didn't find it particularly unusual that he didn't show up. He was like, I don't know, he didn't have to be there. So, he does find it unusual, though, when Melvin doesn't show up for work the next day. Oh, where the fuck is he? It's work day now. So, he also calls and no one answers the phone. Yeah. He's like, okay, if Bob's not, or if Melvin's not at work, he should be at home and he's not answering the phone. So, Bob decides to, after work that night, he's gonna stop by their house and make sure he's okay. The boss just pops by. Pops, but calls it 4.30 in the morning or just pops by, which seems way intrusive. My boss is far too friendly, yeah. Way intrusive and he doesn't get there until 10.30 PM. Jesus, he's working all day. He's working all fucking day. Yeah, that's crazy. And at the same time, you're gonna go knock on someone's door as an 18-month-old at fucking 10.30 PM. Are you out of your mind? After you've worked for fucking at least 16 hours? Yeah, imagine they just got the kids to bed. You knock on the door, the dog barks, the kids are up. That guy's wife is gonna stab you in the face. And I'm quitting tomorrow. And so is he. Yeah, I'm gonna be like, "Bob, what the fuck, bro? Jesus Christ." We're not brothers, dude, that have a relationship that's equivalent here. This is crazy. Yeah, I'm fucking, I didn't show up. Either fire me or I'll be there the next day. What do you want from me? Like, this isn't, you don't get to investigate it. So, he does, this is September 3rd, 1974. And the house is dark. It's all dark in there, which it's 10.30 at night. And you got a guy that's ready to go to work at 4.30 in the morning, that seems normal. This guy gets a flashlight out. Yeah, think about this. He's not home. Now he's looking in my window? Looking in your windows with a flashlight now. This isn't, yeah, this is too much for a boss to be doing. Looking through the windows and then he sees Mrs. Thrasher, Sandra, lying on the floor. And he goes, uh-oh, that's not good, lying on the floor. You deserve this, Bob. This is the opposite of minding your own business. You wouldn't be. You would have earned this. You sought this out hardcore. You were like really fucking wanted this bad. You looked for the monster and you found it. You said, I'm gonna go see if they're all dead. That's what you said. Maybe they're all dead and I'll find their bodies. Why else would he not be there? You should have showed up on Tuesday, Bob, and called the police and said, I've got a missing man and he hasn't answered his phone at home. Let them go knock on the fucking door. That's all he's missing. Can't get a hold of him. They go put their flashlights to the door and that's their job. This guy goes, I'm gonna look into it myself. So the investor, he goes right to the police, this guy. And they come over, the cops come over. He said, I think I saw my employee's wife dead on the floor. So you might want to go look into this shit. So they do, they come over, that's the thing too. I've been there. He does that, the cops come into the house and right away they find both Melvin and Sandra lying face down on the bedroom floor. This guy was looking in a dark bedroom with a flashlight. In the bedrooms. What if she was sucking him off at the time, right? I can't go down on my fucking wife in my own house without you going, get out of here, Bob. Who looks in people's bedrooms? Yeah, what if you catch me? And I like Fox tail butt blood. Yeah, I can see that, Bob. Like I understand, but opinions now what? Now I gotta show up on the job site and you know what that, I don't want you knowing that. First sticking out of my butt hole, that's not, I don't need you to do that, Bob. Don't look at my bedroom window. Lickin' my wife's asshole, you son of a bitch. Either I'm dead and it's none of your concern or I've got a fox tail butt blood, I'm jerkin' off eatin' my wife's ass. I'm doin' some private shit. None of your concern. Doin' some private shit. Do you understand? Okay, Bob, I'm into pegging. Are you happy with that? Did you wanna know that, Bob? Did you wanna know that I wanna have my wife ramp things up my ass? No, you didn't, Bob, but now you do. I hope you see this every time you blink for the rest of your life. That's it, I hope you see it all. Me making eye contact with you through the fucking window. Flippin' you off, you son of a bitch. But no, they're both dead in there. So it's actually good that he did this. We're making fun, but honestly it's good. They're both lying face down on the bedroom floor. Yeah. Mervin's feet were tied together, and his hands were bound behind his back as well. Oh no. Yeah, he'd been shot in the head three times. Jesus. Yeah, this is-- That's a lot. You better show up for work next time, motherfucker. This is set in an example. The Bob's fucking fist. We don't miss shifts around here, boy, this is-- Wow. Work 16 hours today alone. Fuck that. Sandra was also tied up with-- hands tied and also feet tied. But her feet were pulled up and tied to her hands. He hog tied. Oh, damn it. So she was hog tied. She'd been shot twice in the head. OK, they figured out based on the scene that Mervin and Sandra were bound back to back in chairs before they were shot. They got shot and fell out of the chairs. They were-- that's crazy. That's grimy, man. That's some grimy fucking shit, man. Dark. But the Bob says they have two kids. Where are the kids? Yeah. So now the cops have to go through the rest of the house. And the kids are both in the same room in bunk beds. Oh, no. And they both have been murdered also. What the fuck? In their fucking beds. Yeah. It's worse than in cold blood. It's fucking-- oh, it's way worse than in cold blood. Way worse than in cold blood. They didn't indiscriminately kill an 18-month-old baby. They actually did here. 18-month-old shot twice in the head. Twice. Twice. And five-year-old poor little Penelope in the upper bed of the bunk shot three times in the head. Wow. That's fucking-- all you can hope is that they were sleeping and didn't know that this was happening and just never woke up. But that's fucking horrific. That's 10 shots. Yeah. They heard it, right? They had to have heard it. I would think if someone heard something, I would hope. But we had tons of stories where kids don't wake up through gunfire. How many stories have we done? 10 shots. Tens a lot. Tens a lot. But the problem is, too, it was with the 22, which are not the loudest of fucking guns, either. It's not like a 3.57. It's still a loud pop, but who knows? The murder weapon here is not on the scene either. There's no 22 on the scene. They find shell casings in the bathroom, though. They match that with shell casings that they found in the yard of the Thrasher's old house. They were doing target practice with, so they matched those together. It's their old gun. It's their own gun. Oh, my God. So whoever broke in a week ago, and stole their gun, came back and murdered them all with it. Came back with the gun. With the fucking gun. What the fuck? Disturbing. That was in Guyman, Oklahoma, their old house. They said, all four were fully clothed, but there were indications that Sandra had been raped as well. This is disturbing as fuck. The worst. The state crime bureau put up roadblocks all around the town, and through the night, they searched every vehicle coming out of town for everybody on the road. Get the fuck out of the car, looking for guns, looking for blood, looking for anything. This was not civil liberties be damned there. This is like, we've had a small town slaughter here. This is fucked. There's a 10-month-old dead. Get out of your car. Yeah, get the fuck out now. Don't care. That is very, very disturbing. So the state's medical examiner said during the autopsies that all four died of gunshot wounds, obviously, to the head. The daughter sustained three wounds. Sandra, two wounds, 18-month-old Robert was shot in the tip of his nose and in the base of his head. Fucking disgusting, man. Here's a weird thing. Mrs. Thrasher, Sandra was still wearing her diamond ring when they found her. No theft, huh? And all sorts of other family valuables are found in the house and accounted for. Jewelry bucks, not rifle. They just hated it. Hate it. Yeah, this is-- you better show up for your shift, motherfucker, I'm telling you. No shit. This is all Bob, man. I fixed three diesel engines today alone. So yeah, the officials and everybody in town, they just moved there. They haven't had time to make any fucking enemies. They just got here, and they said they knew no reason they were described as a nice church-going family. There's no enemies, they don't do anything, they don't do drugs, they don't-- Jesus Christ. But not in a satanic sex-swinger cult, they have nothing going on. So they decide someone they'd like to talk to that might know something. And that is a young man named Bobby Wayne Collins, another Bob. Fucking Wayne. Bobby Wayne, see, middle name Wayne. Bobby Wayne Collins is 19 years old. What's he doing? Very young guy. Well, he's a jerk-off. He's from Ardmore, Oklahoma. And he works at the 24-hour gas station/truckstop. That's what he does. And Mervin was a customer there. Mervin would get his gas there all the time. So they knew each other, he and Mervin did. They decided to talk to Bobby for a very specific reason here, by the way, go, how do you pick this guy out of your ass to talk to? Well, the under sheriff, Donnie Crane, said he investigated a burglary at Thrasher home on August 28. And a rifle and a number of Eisenhower silver dollars were among the items missing. These are before the JFK, oh, the JFK were 50 cent pieces. That's right. JFK said the silver dollar is now Sacajawea. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was Eisenhower there. So they said that two people who worked with Collins at the service station, Truckstop, said that they were involved, that he was involved in some coin transactions with them on August 29. He had silver dollars. Yeah. One a Klein bever line, that's a guy, said that he gave Collins three quote, three greenbacks for three silver dollars. He traded him three greenbacks, like it's this civil war. I traded him some script for his-- Traded him a few clams, you know what I mean? Wow, three greenbacks. And Eva McDowell, who's a cashier at the Truckstop where he worked, said her and her husband sold him, Collins, a 1960 car. And he gave her six silver dollars as a down payment. Six silver dollars. How much did that car cost? Where six dollars is a down payment on it? Well, it's $12. How much? What the fuck is happening? He bought six silver dollars and a little bit of bread. Actual bread, not even bread, not greenbacks either. Bread. One bread, to be exact. So they said, well, that was odd. They said, did he have, like, before in the past has he been around with silver dollars all the time? They said, never saw him with a silver dollar before. Now he's just paying for everything in silver dollars. OK. Weird. Also, they look at his record and they go, oh my, OK. His record really paints this picture here. Social workers and parents and psychologists all agreed that he had problems. Mainly they found out that when he went to prison for the first time, he's 19, by the way. Oh, but for the first time. He was sentenced in 1971. This is three years ago. When he was 16, he was sentenced to three years in prison. For what? Why, you may ask, as you did, attempting to rape a 69-year-old woman. A six, dude, what? A 16-year-old boy attempted to rape a 69-year-old woman. Oh, my. Which is, wow. And I don't even know. In 1970s, they looked 69. In 1971. Yeah, oh, Christ, she probably looked 100. Yeah, today's a 69-year-old looks great. She can look. She could work out. She could be together. Back then, a 69-year-old, you're like, why aren't you dead yet? They were so old back then. That's crazy. This show, "Small Town Murder," is sponsored by BetterHelp. BetterHelp.com. Absolutely. And maybe your social battery, where you're monitoring that right now, you drain down too much socializing from holidays. Not enough. Maybe some people hole up in the winter. Sure. And therapy is the thing. Therapy can help give you some self-awareness, so you can build a social life that's not going to drain you or leave you wanting more here. So we totally are 100% advocates of therapy here. It's great for you. There's a million things that can help you with. And this is one of them, because social stuff is something that we all-- it's really hard not to struggle with now or days, especially even social media mixed in the mix. It's difficult. It really is. Overwhelming. Therapy can help. And if you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. We very much recommend it entirely online, designed to be convenient and flexible. It's suited to your schedule. You fill out this brief questionnaire. They very quickly match you with a licensed therapist. And no additional charge. You can switch therapists at any time, which is a big deal, because that's sometimes you're not vibing with somebody. And you need to vibe with somebody. No additional charge for that at all. Find your social sweet spot with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com/smalltownmurder today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhglp.com/smalltownmurder. And now back to the show. Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit about the safest sponsor that's ever been Simply Safe. Oh, simply safe.com, S-I-M-P-L-I-Safe.com. Springtime's coming here. So you've got the spring, you've got fresh air, fresh starts, and you clean your house. That's all fresh. It's also the perfect time to give a fresh look and simply safe home security. Make sure your newly cleaned nice house is secure. That's important. Well protected, yeah. It's the only security system that Jimmy and I will use. And we recommend it highly. 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Shit, the prosecutor who prosecuted him at the time said that when he was in prison, he was mentally unstable, everybody found out. And that he was quote in great need of psychiatric aid. That's the prosecutor that said that after he went to prison. He was to serve the maximum term of the maximum term, which by the way, the maximum term would the last day of incarceration would have been September 3rd, 1974. He would have been in jail that day. Could have done it. That was the day he would have still been in prison. Or at a minimum, July 24th, 1973, barring parole. He waived parole consideration when the subject came up in '72. But the following December, he was discharged from the state reformatory seven months before the minimum expiration of his sentence and nearly two years before the maximum expiration. Wow. Yeah, at that time, they looked at his background and they did it as like a mercy thing. Yeah, they said he did. He's 16, set the time 17. He was the product of a, he was very poor, came from a very poor home environment, they said. Broken marriage, father gone, quote, a promiscuous brother who bore her last two children out of wedlock. Oh, oh, which she's just a single mom. So in 1971, she was the biggest whore in six counties at that point, if you fucking, God forbid. So, and she also had some bad emotional problems and mental issues and people thought she needed help as well. A local juvenile officer told her that, told the mother that Bobby was arrested for breaking into a neighbor's home and trying to set fire to a bed in which the neighbor was sleeping, currently. When? When he was like a teenager, 14. Jesus Christ. He broke in and tried to burn a person alive in their own bed. Trying to barbecue a person. Can you, and then two years later, rapes an old lady. Contempted? Attempted to rape an old, I'm shit, that's close enough, you know. He's on track to just really be a menace. Before 18, he's doing that shit. Acceleration, like nobody's business. Wow, holy shit. So since he got out of jail, he bounced from job to job. He had jobs. First, he tried to sell vacuum cleaners. He, he could, yeah. He could move a vacuum. Could move a vacuum. He couldn't, he couldn't remember to bring a pocket full of dirt to dump on the floor. He kept forgetting, kept fucking forgetting, he couldn't do it. Bring one of those sand flums and empty that mama. Yeah, there you go. Squeeze that out. He, he drove a delivery truck for a while. That didn't work out. And then he worked at a gas station. No, he couldn't move things to places. Nope, couldn't do it at all. Selling vacuum cleaners, driving shit. And then he worked, got a job at this gas station. In the summer of '74, he almost got married. He was like a week away from marriage, but the girl backed out. 'Cause she's, imagine the bullet she's done. Like imagine her after this whole thing going, wow, holy shit. So it was at that point in the summer that Collins moved to Woodward. He's brand new here. That's where he found another job pumping gas again at the gas station. And he apparently used to like to burglarize and steal shit too. And on August 28th, '74 he burglarized the home and he took the silver dollar, he took the 22 rifle. And it's amazing though, yes, September 3rd would have been his maximum term. So if he stayed for the maximum, he wouldn't even have been out to be able to do that that day. He would have taken a few more months for these people to die. Yeah, absolutely. Or somebody else would have got killed. So they said he had, at the time they were saying, well, he has no police record 'cause in Woodward he had no record. Then they looked out further and they went, oh my God, Jesus Christ. It gets way worse. This is exactly the guy we're looking for, a guy with priors like this, breaking into people's houses and attempting to commit violence upon them. That's what we have here. And chaspers on fire. Yup, that's fucking wild, man. So the other thing is in 1974, so that we got the rape that he attempted rape, he went to jail for. Then we have, he tried to burn a person alive in their bed. Then he got arrested again in 1973 after he'd been released for raping a lone grove woman, a woman from lone grove, for actual rape, not attempted rape. He was acquitted by a jury in that case in early 1974. - Oh, wait. - He was acquitted on rape charges. So he is 19 fucking years old. - He's beat the rape, he's gotten a rape. - This is murder. - This guy's bad news. - He is a fucking nightmare. So, whoa. Now August 27th, six days before the crime took place, he had borrowed a car from his cousin and gone to Enid in an attempt to find a job. The cousin said though, he didn't loan the car to him that day. So I don't know what he's talking about 'cause that's his story. Bobby Wayne has said on the 27th, I went to Enid and this cousin said, I didn't loan him the fucking car that day. I don't know who Scari took. - Maybe he just admitted to car theft. - Well, no, he's saying, this is my cousin's car and he said, no, I did go to Enid and on the way back from Enid, I picked up a hitchhiker. - Oh. - His name was Jerry, the hitchhiker. He said, I learned that his last name was prowess, P-R-O-W-E-S-S, like having a prowess for something. By looking at the identification card on his backpack, you see, it's some kind of ID card on his backpack. The hitchhiker asked to spend the night at his house, which Collins agreed to 'cause that's what I do. Not only give rides, I go, hey, I'm also go for lodging to strangers. - Can I stay over? Sure. - Wow. So this is the crazy part too. He claims, Bobby claims he dropped the hitchhiker, Jerry Prowess off at his house, you know, Bobby's house and then brought his cousin's car back to him, then went to work at the truck stop work in the night shift. - That's a lot of shit to do. - He said, yeah, just go in my house and live there. I won't be there, but no problem, stranger. He said the next morning he returned home and Jerry Prowess was gone, he's gone. He said he just went to sleep, Bobby did, but was awakened at noon by Jerry Prowess, saying, hey, man, quote, let's come with me to go look at a house. He's in the real estate market, possibly here. - He's still buying, yeah. - He's buying. So the two of them went to a rural residence just outside of town, went through the back door, which was unlocked. This is a Thrasher residence in late August. They stole a number of items he admits, including a rifle and then started back to town. He said they hid the rifle so they wouldn't be seen walking through town with it, obviously. You know, you don't walk around town with a rifle. It's kind of, yeah, so that evening he said Prowess left and took some of the stolen items and he said, I never saw him again, including the gun he took with him too. He had the 22. So they said, well, where were you on September 3rd? He said, well, I got off work at 6.30 AM. I just bought a car three days earlier, as we know a top notch vehicle. He said, and I immediately left town with the intention of visiting my brother in Canadian, Texas. Sure, it's Canadaian or some shit, but it's Canadian, Texas. He said, though, he wasn't very familiar with Northwestern Oklahoma, so he took a wrong turn and wound up near the Kansas border. 'Cause Texas and Kansas borders aren't very far from each other in this part of Oklahoma. They're real close. He said, at that point, he just said, ah, fuck on it, Texas, I'll just go back to Woodward. He just got lost, made a big loop and said, ah, screw it. So, which is possible back then? It's a bad story though. It's a terrible story, terrible. You did a six hour circle on the wind arm. He said he got back at about 9.15 AM. So he said, yeah, he did like a two and a half hour tour of Western Oklahoma. He said, at that point at 9.15 AM, he went to Gibson's discount store and bought a pair of tennis shoes, pair of sneakers. Now, here's the problem. The tread on these sneakers matches the shoe prints found at the crime scene. And that's fine, I just bought them. But he said, I have these, the price tag and the receipt from when I bought them, which was after this happened. I didn't have them yet. It didn't have them yet when that happened. Okay. The register tape didn't name a specific item sold, but it did show a sale with the same price as his shoes from the shoe department. So it's probably the shoes and they're brand new. They said the store didn't open until 8.55 AM that morning. So the purchase would not have been made until after the murders were thought to be committed. Here's the problem I have with that though. And you say, oh, well, and that's not a guilty thing. To me, how many pairs of the same shoes do you have? Yeah, same model show. That tells me, oh boy found that shoe he loves. Yeah. How many pairs of Adidas, the classic ones or the Puma Sway, it's or dunks to it, both of us have. You're dunks, Jesus, I got like six pairs. Same tread, that's what I mean. And if you just murdered a whole family and had blood all over your fucking shoes that you liked, you might go by the same shoes so it doesn't look suspicious that you have different shoes now. Also, yeah, yeah. 'Cause he might've went right there, so who knows? Now, a statement, an agent from the Oklahoma Bureau of Investigation assigned to that case, he said that in the course of the investigation, Bobby gave several different and inconsistent statements after being informed of his rights, of course. He said at first he did not admit to having participated in the burglary, saying Jerry Prowess came back to his house on the 28th with cigarettes, a shaver, and a rifle. And then that Prowess left on September 1st and that's the last time he saw him. Later on, he admits he said, okay, fine, I took part in the burglary, I did. He said I-- - You're in the house. - Yeah, he even said that he had gone to the thrasher home on the day of the murders, but left the house before Jerry must have done anything. - Oh my God. - Okay. - He then said that Jerry Prowess threatened to kill him if he told anyone, and that he just drove after all this, he drove Jerry to the edge of town and let him out of his car, and that was that. And he's never seen or heard from Jerry Prowess again. Funny thing is, neither is anyone else. This guy doesn't exist. - Yeah, of course not. - He described him as a bearded, long-haired hitchhiker named Jerry Prowess, and that's what he said. He said that's like, I got this guy, that's his description, y'all should find him. That was what he said. - He's dangerous. Five, nine, 170 pounds, mustache, short-beared, shoulder-length brown hair. Like everybody else in 1974, basically. - This is about 90% of America. - Yep, then at one point, out of nowhere, he's in the interrogation. They've broken him down to like four different stories. I wasn't there at all, I don't know anything, I was there. Oh shit, Jerry was there. Jerry was in the house, I was outside, I heard shots, I dropped Jerry off, I don't know nothing. Then he says, out of nowhere, he says, quote, I can see them in my sleep at night. He says, my God, that little girl was still asleep. - Oh, you son of a bitch. - The kids, I can't get him out of my mind. That little boy just looked at the gun. - Get the fuck out, he was a wake and saw it, aimed at his face. - And he shot him in the nose with it. - You piece of shit. - You utter a piece of, and shot a sleeping little girl. You fucking scumbag, how the-- - Unreal. - Jesus Christ, I hate, I don't want anybody to fucking, I don't want cops to use enhanced interrogation techniques, but when someone admits to murdering a five year old, you should be able to work them over for a couple minutes at that point. - How many layers of skin do we have, is it seven? - I mean, take a couple, that's a lot. - Right off your fucking ball bag, take a few off. - Let's go, yeah. - You're so fucked up, man. - That is fucking wild. Later on, he'll deny saying that the little girl was asleep, and he said that, he denies that he said that the boy must have been, he said he told him that the boy must have been looking at the gun. And he said, he said that the agent said that to him, that boy must have been looking at the gun, and he became upset and merely repeated it back, was his thing. Like my cousin Vinnie, I shot the clerk. I shot the clerk, that's what they're saying, it's a my cousin Vinnie situation. - What did he say after he said, he said, I shot the clerk. - Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, that was lame. - Yeah, that was lame, like, yeah. He said, I shot the clerk, I shot the clerk. So, the prosecutor says that his stories contained material which nobody but anyone was there killing people could have known, and the defense contended that because of rumor, rumor and innuendo around a small town plus excessive media coverage, everything that he said had been in public circulation being gossiped and talked about. So, he could have known. He also says that based on the prior inconsistent statement made to the investigating agent, which according to the agents' testimony, the defendant told of going to the Thrasher home with Jerry Prowess on that day. In this story, he says that Prowess held the gun on the Thrashers while he tied up Mervyn Thrasher. So, I just tied him up. He said several times, Bobby tells them that several times he kept saying, let's get out of here. Let's get out of here. And that after Mr. Thrasher was tied, Prowess told him to go get the car. At which point he said he ran out of the house and then he heard gunshots as he was out in the front yard. He said that the jury's gotta believe that if they take him a trial because this is crazy. - Why did you buy new shoes then? - Yeah, and his lawyer says, well even if you find him guilty, you also have to find abandonment of scheme. And abandonment of scheme means that he abandoned it midway through so he should only be charged with the robbery and not this and that, but not the murders himself. His final story on it all, he has many, many stories. He said, okay, I entered the home after Jerry Prowess told me to, obviously we came together. Jerry went in first, obviously. And when I came in after Jerry was in there, I parked the car, I came in there. Jerry was holding Sandra Thrasher at gunpoint. He said then Thrasher appeared to be, you know, he was there, he said he just got, the husband just got home from work 'cause he just got home from his 4.30 AM work shift. The fishing, the fixing the engine. He said that Collins told the police that Thrasher found the front door forced open and two men inside with his wife at gunpoint in her nightgown, which is, that's not a situation you want to look into. Collins said that he tied up the parents as Jerry Prowess directed him and that after rebinding Thrasher, who had been let loose to take a telephone call to tell the boss I'll be there in a couple hours, that's when he left to get the car and he said he heard shots outside of the house. He said two shots, then three shots, then three shots. That's what he heard. He missed a set, by the way, in there. He said then he took Prowess eight miles north of Woodward and let him out of his car. They said, well, what's the last you saw? I said, last I saw Jerry Prowess. He had a knapsack and he was walking down the road with his knapsack and the 22-caliber lever action rifle that he took from the home and killed the whole family with. - Really? - Walking away, yup. - A guy with a knapsack and a rifle walking down the street. - Just walking away after just, I wiped out a family long day, it's Miller time, like. So the police officer said that Bob fucking Bobby Collins became visibly upset when the cop told him, "I don't believe your bullshit hitchhiker story, Bobby." - I don't believe a bullshit hitchhiker did anything. - Don't believe any of this shit. He said, "I don't believe any of that." So he got real upset and Bobby said, "He'll kill me if I tell. Jerry will kill me." That's what he said. He just met this guy. - You don't know Jerry. You don't know Jerry, Jerry's got it. If Jerry had, you know, mob connections or was with a cartel, he wouldn't be hitchhiking. Okay, first of all, give him a more $6 shitbox. - Other part is you've done terrible things that you've already admitted to. You're gonna be in prison for a long time. Jerry ain't gonna find you. - Jerry ain't gonna find you. You're in prison. - He can't get you. - Yeah, he'll be in the rape wing wherever whatever the fuck, I don't know. So he said, "He'll kill me." Then he says, "Okay, I'll give you all the details so you'll know I'm telling the truth." He said, "Jerry Prow has just said, we're gonna burglarize that home again." The one we went to last time. I parked the car. Jerry carrying the rifle entered the home. When Jerry entered the house, he saw the front door facing the floor and he said, "He saw the front door facing on the floor." I don't know what that means. And noted that Mrs. Thrasher was in bed and the boy, so now she's not in the living room at gunpoint, she's in bed now. And that Robert, 18 months, the baby was on the bottom level of a bunk bed and the girl was asleep on the top bunk when he said when Mr. Thrasher came in, his wife yelled, "They've got a gun to alert him." So then Mr. Thrasher was forced at gunpoint to sit on the bed and comfort the little boy who had woken up from that. So he had to comfort him till he went back to sleep. A little boy, or at least till he calmed down. Then Bobby Collins, on orders from Jerry, was tying Thrasher up with strips of towling when the phone rang. He said, "Mr. Thrasher told them it's probably my boss "and said, I'll get rid of him, let me fucking talk to him." He answered the phone and said, "I can't be at work for two hours," just like the boss said. He was then forced to kneel on the floor while Collins tied him and Collins said, "He said, 'Let's go,' noting that," he's telling his, telling prowess, "Let's go," noting that Sandra Thrasher was not tied up. He said he ran out the back door and while running, he heard the shots, which he was, when did he tie up fucking Sandra then? - How would she be able to, that much tying? - No. - Yeah. - So he claims, like I said, that he picked this guy up, this, he claimed he picked him up on a day when he didn't even have a car, first of all. 'Cause he claims his cousin bled him, borrow the car. That's how he found Jerry Prowse. His cousin said he didn't borrow my car that day. So that's out right there. Also, all replies to any inquiries in question to all states in the union about a Jerry Prowse were all negative, no Jerry Prowse's. And inconclusive, except for a reply from New Jersey that said they did have a record for a guy named Jerry Prowell with two Ls, that's not the same fucking name. - And he's dead. - Yeah, and he's 93 years old and half blind. So his defense team, Bobby Collins, said that Prowse and Prowell might be the same guy, I'm sure it's the same guy, just grab him. He said that if he knew of that, he might have been able to track down that person who might have been the alleged Jerry Prowse. So they said it was disputed whether or not that he went to even to Enid that day. So they said, who the fuck knows where he's lying and where he's telling the truth, but at the same, one thing they do know, Jerry Prowse doesn't fuck, he snuff a luffagus basically. - It's not a real guy. - No, it's hardcore snuff a luffagus time here. Like Jerry Prowse, he comes out, hey big bird. - Hey, I'm Jerry. - Hey Bobby, let's kill a family. You time up and I'll rape them. - Jesus Christ. - Why did you choose such a fucking, a unique name? Why did he just use, I don't know, a guy named Bob Johnson? - Ronnie Jones came over. There's a lot of them probably. - That was Ronnie, Ronnie sounds like a wild man. - Ronnie Wayne Jones's name was. You both named Wayne in the middle name. - Sounds like a guy that murders, it's a murderer, right? Yeah. - Small town murder fans, listen up. Have you heard, you can listen to episodes of this very show early and ad-free on Amazon music included with your prime membership? That's right, all your favorite small town murder episodes can be heard on Amazon music ad-free and you'll always be the first to catch our latest episodes. So you can brag to your friends, but that's not all. You can listen to your other favorite shows like Morbid, Mr. Baldwin's Medical Mysteries and Dr. Death, ad-free as well. They also have favorite shows like The Daily, Pardon My Take and Up First, All Without Ads. You know what this means, uninterrupted listening, so no more cliffhangers. Amazon music offers the most ad-free top podcasts, so we know they definitely have something for you. And it's already included in your prime membership. To start listening to small town murder ad-free, go to amazon.com/smalltownmurder. That's amazon.com/smalltownmurder or download the Amazon music app for free. It's just that easy. - This podcast is supported by FedEx. FedEx offers fast delivery, more visibility, simple returns and weekend home delivery to 98% of the US population on Saturday and 50% on Sunday. With FedEx, you get picture proof of delivery, ensuring you always know where your package is. Returns are simple with package lists and paperless returns. Plus, FedEx Ground is also faster to more locations than UPS Ground. See the FedEx service guide for delivery information. So what are you waiting for? See what FedEx can do for your business. Absolutely, positively FedEx. - The Angie's list you know and trust is now Angie. And we're so much more than just a list. We still connect you with top local pros and show you ratings and reviews. But now, we also let you compare upfront prices on hundreds of projects and book a service instantly. We can even handle the rest of your project from start to finish. So remember, Angie's list is now Angie. And we're here to get your job done right. Get started at Angie.com. That's A-N-G-I, or download the app today. - I'm up with a better fucking murderer name. - Yeah, Jerry Pralist. - Uh, okay. - So the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation is a fingerprint technician. James R. Looney. He is Looney, that fingerprint guy. He said Colin's fingerprints were not found among the prints discovered at the home. He did say that a lot of the prints that were taken were not identifiable. They were spotted in all that kind of shit. So that happens a lot. Prince, it's very rare. They get great whole prints. It just doesn't work out that way very often. Nowadays, they'd much rather have the oil on it to do touch DNA than they wouldn't even fucking do a print. It's easier. - Who's to say the sun bitch didn't wear some gloves on this, you know? - That's who knows. Yeah, he's going over to kill in the house he's been at before. - Yeah, he knows what he's doing. - Yeah, he says that there's insufficient evidence to bind him over on a charge of murder in the first degree. The charge should be reduced to murder in the second degree or manslaughter in the first degree. He shot a baby in the face at cold blood. Are you in cold blood? - He even knows, man. - Wow, and that the trial court aired here in over ruling his motion to quash and dismiss the information, certain information. Now, they find no error. They said the footprint running from the house to the road matched his sneakers. He confessed to the burglary in which the murder weapon had been taken and his alibi was completely uncorroborated and also the person that he said was there. He said, I think we're pretty good in holding him over. So during the trial, the defense attorney contends that a burglar killed the family, not Bobby. Well, Bobby is a burglar and yes, I agree with you, a burglar killed his name is Bobby Collins. - I agreed. - Yes, he said, we believe Bobby Collins had some association with the burglar who went into the thrasher home and we also believe the killer or killers are still at large. Okay, OJ, so also he doesn't want the photos let in. - Of the scene? - The photos over of murdered children, which tends to piss a jury off. But you know what you do is you don't murder children and then that never happens. - Yeah, you don't have to look at them. - I've never been to court and had my fate be decided by the jury looking at pictures of children I killed or not because I've never killed any children. So it really works out easy. - Yeah. - Wow, the photographs, the rule is if they're gruesome and there's no possibility of prejudice to the jury, then they will not be admissible unless their probative value clearly outweighs the danger of prejudice. So they said in this case here, they held a hearing outside. The defendant argues that the matter in which the Thrashers died was not in contention and that the photographs were not relevant to his defense of alibi. So they said, no, actually they're in, you're good. Yeah, also he says, and even if I did was there, like I said I was, it was an abandonment of scheme. I said I wanted to get out of there and Jerry just went crazy. Now as we know, you can go in to rob a store, you can wait in the fucking car, sit in the back seat, somebody shoots somebody a hundred yards away and you're up for murder. - Especially Oklahoma. - Yeah, or even the guy behind the counter shoots your friend. Now you're charged with killing your friend. - Your friend's murder, right? - Which is a dumb fucking law. Everybody in the car is there of their envelope. Everybody should be charged if someone else gets killed, but if one of them gets killed, he didn't want to kill his friend, that's fucking ridiculous. - Yeah, that is pretty crazy, the store keeping people away for life in his self-defense. - That's insanity, that's the dumbest fucking law. - Not only are you not going to jail, he's going to jail for you murdering that guy. - Like I get, you know, you don't want to discourage armed robbery, but at the same time, we have to have logic in the law of some kind. - Yeah, that's a fucking wild law. - I think, yeah, they said though, this is without merit that Jerry just went crazy because in order to successfully abandon the scheme, that party must communicate to others involved his intention to do so. He didn't say, "Jerry, fuck this, I'm done with this, I'm getting out of here." So yeah, he said that at no point he told Jerry Prowess who he was withdrawing, he just said he followed his instruction to go to the car. Closing arguments, the prosecutor over the defendant's objection, the prosecutor produced a material similar to that which Mervyn Thrasher was bound with and demonstrated it was possible for a person to bind himself, like if he told to tie yourself up, you could do it. - Okay. - So the defendant here, he argues that this demonstration was an error and that the prosecuting attorney went outside the record 'cause that's not the actual stuff, it's just a similar thing, there. They said the actual bindings were in evidence though. So they could have looked at that, he was just showing them one that he could really fuck with in court. - Yeah, he could play with him. - Don't even touch that one. - Exactly, they said book could not be used in the demonstration because they had been cut in order to be removed from the victims. - Oh, Jesus. - They had blood on them for Christ's sake. So council for the defense suggested during opening arguments that the evidence would not support the contention that one person could have done all that was done and the purpose of the demonstration was to show that Mervyn Thrasher could have bound himself. So the council for the state did not claim that Thrasher had tied himself in such a manner, but only to show that it was possible for a person to bind themselves. Now, one person could have done this because Mervyn wasn't home. So, yeah, you got to control with everybody. Then when he gets home, then you've got control of him. It's not that big of a, it's not that hard. - That's it. You got the kids are asleep. They're no physical threat anyway. Five and less than two. You got the wife of the bedroom. - You got the wife of the mom's gonna listen. - Yeah, you've raped and tied up this wife at gunpoint in the bedroom, and then dude comes home and now you got him at gunpoint. It's not like there was, you know, eight fucking lumberjack sitting around and you kick the door open into their breakfast and said, what's up motherfuckers? Like, that would have been, yeah, that'd be hard. They all have axes, this is different. So, at the conclusion of this case, he wants a new trial already. He said, the only conceivable case the state might have is a legal trespass and first degree manslaughter. That's it, no murder. Imagine saying that, the balls on that. Yeah. - 18 month old dead man. - He said it would be far greater crime to bind a person over for first degree murder when the only punishment is death. So, the judge rejects a plea deal that they paraded that they had there, an attempted plea deal. They said, no, verdict comes in, guilty as shit. - Yeah. - Yeah, looking pretty guilty there. - You're in a lot of trouble, man. - You're a lot of trouble. The sentencing comes in, even more trouble. You, sir, may fuck off death penalty. - Yeah, yeah. - Which, I think about, if you asked anybody in town, you wanna just drag 'em behind your truck? They'd all go, I gotta rope in the truck. I don't give a fuck about this guy. - We can use his-- - He's killing children, he drove a man 10 miles to the side of the edge of town. Let's just drag him to the edge of town. - Yeah, that's a team come to ya. About here. - He's not right. - He stopped responding a couple miles back. I don't know if maybe-- - I guess I'll just cut him loose. - Fuck it, yeah. Fuck this guy. No, you can't kill children in cold blood. That's crazy. - No, and you can't shoot an 18 month old in the fucking-- - No face, and you can't be breaking into people's houses to rape them, and you can't be tying up people, and you can't be trying to burn people alive in their beds. Fuck this guy, he's a medicine. - He was gonna get to this point one way or another. - Yep, fuck yeah, but shortly after this conviction in death penalty, it was ruled unconstitutional the death penalty in the state of Oklahoma, and his sentence was changed to life in prison. - Okay. - It's due to life in prison, it's not life without, so he gets parole hearings all the time, we'll talk about-- - Jesus. - Yup, the prosecutors said it's a shame to go through the work to represent the people in a case of the magnitude of the Collins case and have it overturned like that. - Yeah. - So it is appeal here, he wants an appeal, and he said that it's all circumstantial evidence. There's no fingerprints, there's no physical evidence, they didn't find the gun in his possession, none of that shit. It's all shit he said, but they said every reason, and this is the court saying in a circumstantial evidence case, every reasonable hypothesis except guilt must be excluded before he can find someone guilty. If there's DNA all over the place, then the other things are a little more nebulous, that's fine, but this is, they gotta be exact. - Okay. - They said that factors would include incriminating statements or conduct on the part of the accused. In this case, the circumstantial evidence implicating him was taken together with the testimony of the agents who said what he said to them about Jerry Prowess and all that kind of shit, and they said that's sufficient to support the guilty verdict. They said, in other cases, one with a suicide, it was different, but here, no. He next to signs also error to the trial court refusing his requesting instruction on murder in the second degree. And they said that would be by the Oklahoma law in '74 when perpetrated without authority of law and with a premeditated design to affect the death of a person or any other human being, but not an act enumerated by in the preceding section. But he went into burglarized, so he got it all. So it is affirmed, but with a dissent, there's a dissenting justice on this. - Yeah, right. - Yes, they say in the instant case, meaning this one, the jury was faced with the choice of finding the defendant guilty of murder in the first degree or finding him guilty of nothing. Those are their options. Those are the two. - There was evidence presented that the defendant might have been guilty of a less serious crime than murder in the first degree. And to that extent, he was denied a fair trial by the jury. I think they should have given the jury the opportunity to believe him and call it manslaughter or second degree. He said, regarding the demonstration by the prosecuting attorney in the closing argument, cases cited by the majority in this opinion, while by no means binding the court to allow such a demonstration do indicate that in some jurisdictions, considerable latitude has been allowed to the prosecutors in closing arguments. That's true, a lot of latitude in closing arguments. His person says, nevertheless though, I think the demonstration by the prosecutor was extremely prejudicial to the defendant, because the prosecutor made it appear that it would have been a simple task for Mervyn Thrasher to have tied his own wrists and then to have stepped over them so his hands would be be tied behind him. The defendant was given no opportunity to discover and point out to the jury that the prosecuting attorney had in fact practiced the demonstration in his hotel room. Well, yeah, you practice your whole fucking, I would assume you probably practice a lot of what you do, yeah. You probably say thing, I'm gonna say this, does this sound good? So it comes out of your mouth easier when you say second time. - If you don't practice your fucking murdered prosecution, you're terrible. - I've rehearsed my fucking divorce proceedings for my sake. - Closing arguments in a murder trial where kids were shot in the face. - I'll fuck in one take, Charlie, and I got it up to him. - I'm just good on my feet. If I know it too well, then it won't come out right. It's gotta be fresh. - It'll look rehearsed. I'm gonna fucking wing it and I'll kill it much. - Like Brando, you know what I mean? I do it from the hip here. He said as a result, the jury may have well been misled as to what the demonstration had actually shown. Finally, I would like to reverse on the grounds that the state suppressed evidence which was exculpatory to the defendant. - What's that? - Which is, prior to the trial, a defendant properly moved to compelled disclosure of all evidence favorable to him, including copies of all memorandums, reports, and summaries used by the plaintiff, the state of Oklahoma, or any of its agents, representatives, or assigns to determine the possibility of the hitchhiker described by the defendant as Jerry Prowess, or to eliminate the possibility of such hitchhiker described by the defendant, including, but not limited to the following, copies of all form letters, blah, blah, blah, blah, copies of wire message, and any and all reports dealing with the investigation or inquiries made concerning the existence or non-existence of Jerry Prowess or any other hitchhiker. So he says, you know, they didn't look into that enough. - He fucking made it up. You could just, it would be one thing if the person existed, it'd be one thing if the purview said, Bob from down the street, I know him. That would be one thing, yes, investigate. He made a fucking person up, here he is. - And he said he had an ID with the name on it, therefore he knows how to spell it. It's not like it was Jerry with a G, you know what I mean? - Yeah, he fumbled it and said Prowess, he might have said Prowel, or he might have said Prowel, and I don't know. No, he read it, he fucking read it. Those don't spell. - I saw the letters. We googled him, he don't exist. - That was a dumb thing to say that I spelled, they knew the exact, 'cause then he could have said, we'll try it like this, or try it like this. He might have said it like this. - Oh, I just know. - Oh, guy. - Eventually you would have found someone with that name, but this fucking idiot, not at all, he's an idiot. He blew it. So, 1970's trying to get the Supreme Court to hear his case. - Oh boy. - And they announced that they will not hear the appeal of Bobby Wayne Collins. - They're not. - We were gonna pass on that. Yeah, he contended he was denied his constitutional right to due process because he was not allowed to see records detailing the government's search for the hitchhiker. Yeah, he wanted to see the records of the search, like they didn't look for him. So, he argued, like if they honestly thought he existed and was out there hitchhiking, robbing, murdering, murdering the bad-- - Murdering houses like that? - I feel like they'd probably take a look just in case. Hey, we'll get two for one here, yeah. So, yeah, they said that. Collins argued that if he had been allowed to see the records, he could have shown his jury that the state authorities made only a superficial search for the man. Or he said, "I could have even tried to locate him myself." - Yeah, but you could. - What 1974 resources does a 19-year-old have to find somebody? - Right, a 19-year-old who works at a gas station and lights people on fire and-- - Yeah, and rapes old women, that's great. So, yeah, they said they've ruled that I wasn't unconstitutional, blah, blah, blah. You can go fuck yourself. He has ruled you, sir, may fuck off. Life in prison, by the way, like I said, but with parole. So, he's got parole. Now, 1989, he's up for parole. It's 15 years. - Oh, my God. - He told the parole board he did not commit the murders. - Uh-oh. - But he also said he didn't believe my arguments will sway you anyway. He said, "I'm well aware no one here is gonna grant me no parole anyhow." That's what he said. Grant me no parole anyhow. - Anyhow. - Anyhow. So, 19, he's basically, I don't, he's doing a Manson. Like, you're not gonna let me out anyway. Why am I fucking here? - He fakes 92 up for parole again. He asked the board to reduce his life sentence to 45, 60, 75, 99 years. It doesn't matter. - Oh, he doesn't like the torture. - No, he wants a number. - The indefinite shit is driving me nuts already. - He's maintains his innocence and said he does not deserve to be in prison at all, but a reduced sentence would put his chances of release, at least in his own hands. - Yeah, there's not no one is driving me nuts. - Then he broke out. I have scientific evidence. I'm, I'm, which is the parole board's not the person to take. You take that to an appeals court. Parole board wants to hear, "I'm very sorry and I'm better now." And I won't do it again. - Rehabilitation story and remorse, that's what we need. - He said the cigarettes at the crime scene showed someone with O positive blood type was there. And the blood type of Collins and all of the victims is A positive. That means, so he could have had someone come over smoking. One of the cops could have had a cigarette. Fucking Bob Petit, yeah, a couple of cigarettes. Cigarettes. He Collins said that he is a trustee and for jail and has been ahead a clear conduct, a record conduct for almost nine years. He's been in jail for 20, so. - That's not good. - It's not great. - It's really good. - And the board unanimously tells them to go eat dicks again. Go set your own bet on fire. 2009, he's up for parole. - Oh my. - And the district attorney told the parole board that what he did was probably one of the worst crimes Woodward County has ever seen. - Yeah. - And they said they're encouraging the public to write letters to the parole board. If they don't want them out or if they do want them out, let them know. Former district attorney, Jack Barton, who was there for 75, said Bobby Collins should have been executed. He never gave a reason for committing the crimes. I'll kill him myself. - I mean, in retrospect, we should have lynched him, but you know, we missed. - Then he revealed that the rifle used was found years after later in a pond. - Oh? - Years after the conviction in the 80s, somebody pulled the rifle out and they figured out it's the fucking murder weapon. - Oh my God. - So it was in a pond. This guy said that, quote, "I don't think he should ever be paroled." So he wasn't, some guy, he wasn't eight miles out of town walking away with it 'cause it was in a pond in town. - Right. - So he's full of shit. The Taylor Collins case worker has written a, quote, glowing review about him recommending that he should be released and that he's shown good behavior while in prison. - No. - Wow, he's in a, it was at the Lexington Corrections Center, a medium security prison. And they said, quote, "The reason the case worker is recommending him for paroles 'cause he's maintained good behavior and turned in a machine gun left behind by the National Guard after exercises at the prison. They left a machine gun in prison. - Who leaves, don't you? - Who the fuck didn't account for all the automatic weaponry and they left it in a prison. - Somebody sat down and scratched their ball and then stood up and walked away. - Maybe like a second grade playground was the only worst place I could think of to leave a machine gun, maybe there. - Sir, you left your machine gun. Oh, thank you so much. - Holy. - You are such a responsible envy. - Thank you for not killing us all and trying to escape. - Wow. - Sandra Thrasher's mother, who was still alive at that point, was still passing out flyers at convenience stores, asking people write letters requesting his parole be denied. She's dead that now though, so she can't do that anymore. In 2019, his attorney, who by the way, one of his appeals attorney, Dennis Hartley, was also Timothy McVay's attorney, one of his attorneys. Yes, he is disbarred in 2019. - Oh, uh oh. - Yeah, he did that and so there's that. And Hart, this is the lawyer, he said, I will continue to advise against it, but I don't imagine he'll change his mind. I don't think anyone's gonna try to persuade him to change his mind. I don't know who they're talking about there. Oh, they're talking about this guy doing his appeals. Okay, so that's that, he's still in prison. - Wow, they've kept him for 30 years? - I haven't seen him paroled and I looked. The last I saw was what, 2019? No, that was when the attorney was gone. 2009, he was up for parole. I mean, that was Christ, he'd been in there forever then. - That's 15 years ago. - As long as he doesn't admit to shooting children in the face, - There's no way they let him out. - They're not letting him out. And they shouldn't let him out, he can go fuck himself. Rod in there, find me Jerry or shut the fuck up. - That man is-- - Produced Jerry. Wow, James, he was 21 when that happened. - He was 19 when that happened. - Oh yeah, holy fuck. - 19, yeah. He is now 69 years old. - He's gonna spend his entire life. - He's almost 70 now. - He's been in there for 40 years. - He's a scumbag. There you go. - He's 50 years. - 50. - Holy shit. - That is the snuffle-officus murders here. That is Oklahoma, Woodward, Oklahoma. If you like that show, tell the world about it, and I'm gonna wrap your on and give us five stars and say something nice. Doesn't matter what you say, at all. You don't have to say, tell me what your favorite flavor of gum is, that's all you have to say. I'm so-and-so, the show's great, I love strawberry. That'd be terrific, I don't care. 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Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com/survey. - It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. - We're your hosts, I'm Alina Erkart, and I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well researched. - He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people, with a touch of humor. - I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called malevolent deity. - That is pretty great. - A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit, with a little bit of cursing. - This motherfucker lied like a liar. - Like a liar. - And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the way back machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crime. - You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app, or wherever you get your podcasts. 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