New York Daily News NFL columnist Pat Leonard reacts to the Giants' benching of Daniel Jones and their decision to start Tommy DeVito over Drew Lock beginning in Week 12 against the Buccaneers after speaking with Brian Daboll @Bleav. Pat takes all fan questions and forecasts where the Giants go from here. SUBSCRIBE to the @PLonNFL YouTube page to get the latest Giants updates and news delivered directly to you, and to participate in regular LIVE Q&A chats with Pat. Purchase a Super Chat or Super Sticker to have your comments elevated to the top of the feed and have Pat answer your question FIRST! Watch the full video of this @Bleav podcast on Pat's YouTube Channel. Find Pat also on 'X' (@PLeonardNYDN), Instagram (@PLonNFL) & TikTok (@PLonNFL). Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard is brought to you by MyBookie. It’s MyBookie’s 10th year anniversary, and they’re rolling out the red carpet for bettors, including Risk-Free Thursdays and weekly no-sweat bets all season long. Use the promo code 'PATSPICKS' here to get your first deposit of $50 or more matched 100% up to $1,000 plus a $10 casino chip. Make your Football season a winning season with MyBookie! Bet Anything, Anytime, Anywhere. Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard is also sponsored by @BoomChaga and @Estate98Coffee. BOOM Chaga Mushroom SuperDrink is a natural extract loaded with anti-inflammatory, immune-boosting antioxidants and heart-healthy compounds. Go to BoomChaga.com and use the code TALKINBALL25 to get a 25% discount on your first Subscribe and Save Order. Estate98 Coffee is a specialty coffee concentrate that's perfect when you want to make a quick cup of coffee and skip the lines. It takes less than 10 seconds to make a delicious Estate 98 iced or hot coffee, it’s great as a mixer for espresso martinis and each bottle can make up to 16 cups. Go to estate98.com/talkinball to get an exclusive offer for 80% off your first order.
Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard
Giants' benching of Daniel Jones for Tommy DeVito another indictment of Joe Schoen
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Plus Shopify's award-winning help is there to support your success every step of the way, because businesses that grow grow with Shopify. Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify.com/Westwood1. All lowercase. Go to Shopify.com/Westwood1 now to grow your business. No matter what stage you're in, Shopify.com/Westwood1. All right, everybody. It is Pat Leonard from the New York Daily News and the talking ball live with Pat Leonard's podcast on the Believe Network brought to you by my bookie, Boom Chaga, and estate 98 Coffee, and we are here after the Daniel Jones benching for Tommy DeVito, not Drew Locke. That's the little bit of surprising part about it. Not a surprise that Daniel Jones has been relegated to the third stringer, and essentially, at this point, shut down due to the terms of that injury guarantee. We will get into all of that, get to your questions, and talk about all of the ins and outs of the Giants past, present, and future and the ramifications of this decision. After speaking with Brian Dable on a Zoom interview where the Giants head coach did his best to explain or not explain, depending on your point of view, why the Giants made this decision and where they go from here. My initial take on this is that the Giants regime, Joe Shane, and Brian Dable, they look very bad, especially the general manager on the personnel side, that they gave $5 million guaranteed to Drew Locke, and they're not confident enough in the backup quarterback they had judged to be good enough in the spring to go right to him to make their product better. Brian Dable saying that the spark Tommy DeVito gives the team in the offense made him the better player to go to. They couldn't answer in the affirmative when I asked him directly if Tommy DeVito is outplayed Drew Locke in practice. Certainly, you risk losing another veteran in Drew Locke in the locker room with this decision. Also, continuing to lose the locker room potentially because the players know you're not necessarily making a decision in the best interest of your team to win. Now, we will see if I'm wrong about that, we will see if Tommy DeVito does make the offense and the team better. But I think Joe Shane and Brian Dable under as much pressure as ever right now to make this product look more palatable to the fans. I was just talking to a fan earlier who said it's getting more and more difficult to go out to MetLife Stadium and to rationalize spending six hours on a Sunday when this is the product that the Giants are putting on the field and that even reselling tickets and getting rid of them has become harder and harder this year. I do believe that the DeVito decision is also motivated ownership-wise by trying to feed some red meat to a fan base that gets excited about the local hero, the guy who made six starts when three and three last year Tommy cutlets himself and added a little juice to an otherwise dysfunctional and ridiculous season. But I wonder if the novelty of that wears off talking to some people today. I think people are still frustrated with the direction the Giants are going. The one silver lining of this obviously and the obvious reason why Daniel Jones was going to be bench in the first place because they're two and eight and now the only positive could be hey the Giants are going to get a high enough draft pick to get their future franchise quarterback. We saw Joe Shane at the Colorado game scouting Shador Sanders, Travis Hunter, some of the top picks and prospects in this draft including one of the best quarterbacks. But obviously no guarantee you're going to get there and also how does your team play hard for the next seven weeks knowing that this decision is motivated at least in part by an injury guarantee and not necessarily by the team you're putting on the field. I think there's pressure on Brian Dable for this offense to look better and Joe Shane are you still naming this guy the general manager you're confident in to make your quarterback selection when going into an off season here this year where you knew that he was out on the quarterback now and looking to replace him. You don't you have to want to look at Bonix going for over 304 touchdowns for the Broncos in a blowout win over the Atlanta Falcons and rampant backup quarterbacks doing well in the NFL this year while Drew Locke is a guy they're not even confident going to in this spot against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers you know Sam Darnell Justin Fields Russell Wilson Malik Willis even at 2 and 0 as a starter for the Green Bay Packers as a backup James Winston would have been a better option so a lot of reasons to indict Joe Shane and Brian Dable and the Giants operation at the quarterback spot let alone the team spot now as far as Daniel Jones goes obviously he hasn't been good enough and we saw this coming I personally believe he has been unfairly scapegoated as the reason why the Giants are bad in 2 and 8 he definitely could have given them some better play at key times maybe added a win or two to the current dynamic and overall record so it's not like he's without blame there's no question about that and for the future the Giants have to move on eventually but I don't like how they've done it I think it reflects on how the front office has poorly handled the team overall I think a lot of players turned off by the way this Giants operation treats people and players I think you saw Daria Slate and commenting on Nick McLeod's Instagram post saying a free man with an exclamation point about Nick McLeod who is now with the San Francisco 49ers I think another extremely worrisome development if you're the Giants and if you're a fan and if your ownership looking at are these the men that we want to continue running our team and our franchise so that's my initial take on the news and on the developments we've seen here on Monday November 18th 2024 probably have seen Daniel Jones last down as a Giants quarterback I do think he will succeed once he gets with a better offensive coordinator and a better fit and in a different market but here and now we're talking about where the Giants go from here and that's what we're going to get right into your questions I saw a super chat already come into the queue that will be the first comment or question we address if you pay for a super chat or super sticker it's a great way to support the channel I will answer your comment or address your question first and if you're not going to purchase a super chat or super sticker I will get to your comments in the queue but I ask one thing please hit the like button while we are live here on YouTube on the PL on NFL YouTube channel courtesy of the believe network here on Talking Ball Live with Pat Leonard and that brings me to thanking our sponsors my bookie boom chaga and estate 98 wouldn't be possible without them my bookie rolling out the red carpet for sports betters this football season risk-free bets on Thursday nights and a special deal with my promo code patspix at the link in all my social media profiles click that link make your first deposit use the promo code patspix and 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16 cups go to estate 98.com backslash talking ball to get an exclusive offer for 80% off your first order we will do later in this chat and estate 98 giant trivia question so when I ask that giant trivia question first correct answer in the queue I will have a free bottle of estate 98 coffee sent out to you thank you for the support thanks for those likes thanks for subscribing and we start with Elias Whiskavitch with a five dollar super chat thank you Elias Elias says that five million dollars were wasting on Drula could have helped pay for McKinney or elsewhere saying it wouldn't change anything about the offseason at quarterback was a lie you could hear Joe Shane's you know in those moments usually an executive is not going to sit up there and flat out say I screwed up but you could hear in his hesitation in his answer or non answer to that question in the tone in his voice he knew that the answer to that was I screwed it up right so they're trying to put lipstick on the pig at this point you're absolutely right you know I always go back to forget what you think of saquon okay put offensive player there even if you didn't want saquon but obviously he's an MVP candidate so that applies but even the Brian Burns trade you could have gone and got Jonathan Grenard kept your second round pick and draft at a corner and resign saquon instead of giving burns that enormous contract and paying that second round pick just one example as well of asset mismanagement but you hit right on the nose there Elias not being able to go to drew lock here it looks even worse considering Russell Wilson with four wins as a starter in Pittsburgh Justin Fields who was acquired via trade with four wins as a starter in Pittsburgh Malik Willis two wins with the Green Bay Packers James Winston Joe Flacco both would be guys you could conceivably go to as a Giants in this spot and feel better about your quarterback room Sam Darnold with a start on a one-year affordable I think it was four and a half million coming from San Francisco going to Minnesota eight and two team that is three eight and two teams the Eagles the Vikings and the Steelers who have benefited based on the Giants in action and the stakes at the quarterback position and elsewhere great point there Elias thank you for getting us kick started um with that super chat Jim thank you for checking in he says what do you think of the Giants or is there a Giants reaction to Bobby O'Karricki giving saquon a thumbs up nothing yet we haven't been allowed in the locker room yet Jim we will be in the locker room again on Wednesday so Bobby O'Karricki liking the saquon Barkley Instagram Daria Slaton saying on Nick McLeod's Instagram he's a free man uh these are all signs of what I've been explaining to you guys is going on behind the scenes is that the locker room and players in general do not appreciate how the Giants front office and management has handled them and how they've treated guys on the way out it's not necessarily getting cut or being um you know asked to play for another team or not not as good of a fit guys understand that that business part of it exists it's more about how it's been handled how they're treated and then also you know guys like Bobby O'Karricki buys like guys like even Dexter Lawrence I'm very interested in how he feels right now we haven't really talked to him about the Nick McLeod situation but we know he's erupted on the sidelines he also did not play coming out of the half in Germany not exactly sure what that's about the Giants haven't given us a straight and honest answer there so a lot of signs of discontent coming from the locker room and I think the support for Saequan in my opinion reflects a reality that the players knew right away that the Giants made a mistake there K von Thibodeau was on the record on a podcast saying that they should have paid Saequan before they paid Daniel Jones that dynamic exists and that's where it brings us today K-Mac says it didn't have to be this way that's right K-Mac the Giants are in a tough position now but they also created this situation you don't pick up the Daniel Jones option you give him that contract you signed Drew Locke you thought Tyrod Taylor was going to come back here you didn't all of this stuff goes into the pot not to mention you know even Brian Dable said flat out today that the reason they haven't been able to progress with Daniel Jones since 2022 in fact the reason it's regressed he said was not just on Daniel it's on the whole offensive performance it's on me but that's where we're at we're at the fact that the Giants hired an offensive head coach who can't get more out of his offense the Giants offensive not numbers are pathetic in fact I was just on the radio in Albany on ESPN Albany earlier and one thing I said to them and this is something we've talked about on our podcast on talking ball with Pat Leonard going into this season I think the the Giants even if they didn't win games there was a clear path to Brian Dable and Joe Shane and the Giants showing listen there's a lot of missing pieces still here but we're building something real and right and I thought the easiest way and the best way and the way Dable had to do that but could do that was by you know if you're losing games 30 to 27 or 31 to 28 or 35 34 or even consistently losing games you know 23 20 even you could say we're putting points on the board we're just not there fully we had the turnover at defensive coordinator which while it was our fault now we're digging ourselves out from under that but that's not what they've been able to do and that's what they're in a tough spot here with going to DeVito trying to convince the locker room that it's the right move even though it might not be even though it might regress and get worse right all of these things are major concerns because if you look at the Giants they have some bad low scoring losses right Vikings 28-6 the Eagles 28-3 even the Bengals was only 17-7 but the Giants offense looked like they could have played 12 quarters that day only scored seven points they have five field goals against the Dallas Cowboys one of the worst teams in the league and then some of these other supposed close games right 17 points to a Carolina Panthers team that's allowing 32 right and the Giants obviously the lowest scoring team in the NFL at 15.6 so that's one of the reasons why Brian Daybell and Joe Shane are under so much fire and pressure here all right so Jim Osborne Jim says Pat going with DeVito because he gives them best chance to win what's the strategy because Shane is going to draw heat for paying five million for a backup who was really third string the entire time well it also reflects poorly on their just their evaluation process because they thought Drew was going to give Daniel a run from his money and training camp and he didn't they didn't give Tommy DeVito a chance to give Drew a run for the second but backup quarterback spot in training camp and you know I asked Debo because we don't get to see every full practice right we only see the beginnings so my question to Debo was has Tommy outplayed Drew in practice he could not say yes he said they've both shown some good things right and here's the reason I'm going with Tommy but the reason that's an important question is because the players know who's the better player based on what's happening in practice not just you know guys track records throughout their career it's also just if they walk off the field every day and they think Tommy's better then Tommy's better if they walk off the field every day and they're like hey Drew's clearly better than Drew's the guy you have to go to you can't go to the quarterback that the locker room knows is not giving you a better chance to win Antonio says Drew Locke is a pretty expensive third-stringer they don't even want to play him over DeVito yeah really bad look there for Joe Shader for the Giants Antonio says any updates on injured players Pat like Pinoc, Muasal, Kvon, Slaton nothing definitive yet Antonio we expect to have more on Wednesday doesn't sound like a sure thing though that Kvon is going to be back this week based on how Debo hedged there on the other guys we will see I would throw Jalen Hyatt into that mix as well as a guy who's been banged up not exactly sure where that stands but we're looking for more info on that Antonio says what is your record prediction the rest of the season well I picked them to go four and thirteen this season I picked them to go two and eight at the bi-week obviously if you're on my bookie or you're a sports better get on my bookie use Pat's picks and think about it man you know we get some wrong but if I'm getting stuff like that right a season prediction you can make a lot of money on this stuff let's tail it let's get in while the while the crystal ball is hot but to answer your question you know I think four and thirteen was my prediction and I think that's the ceiling so I would say that's their ceiling I don't know if they're going to get to four wins though I think they could end up losing out and only winning two maybe they get to three maybe they get to four you know they have the Buccaneers Cowboys Saints Ravens Falcons Colts and Eagles I say I would say the games they have a chance to win in there is the Colts and you know to me it's hard to see anybody other than Colts as on the on the board that you could possibly beat there that's how I feel about it so I would say the ceiling is for most likely three but two is on the table that's what I would say I do think there's a chance that DeVito starts and then we end up seeing Locke eventually here as well I think that's possible so but I think Daniels played his last down for the Giants Jim says if Locke was good given a chance he could be a bridge quarterback next season I doubt DeVito is a bridge full season starter your thoughts I totally agree Jim I think you know listen the Giants know DeVito is not the answer because if they thought he was they would have had him playing prominent competing prominent snaps in the summer even after everything that happened last year all the feel good stuff I think they're well aware based on his high sack percentage how bad some of the losses were and how his wins were even propped up don't forget this and listen when I when I criticize or couch the things that Tommy did last year I've got nothing against Tommy I love Tommy he's great like Tommy's a great dude I wish the best form I'm glad that he's accomplished everything he has I hope he continues to get a gazillion endorsements and you know he's always been nice to me and everybody in the locker room and I think he works his butt off so but the reality is last season you know the defense forced 11 turnovers in his three wins and the special teams even got an extra one against the Washington commanders and so when you think about that that was a really crazy fortuitous run aided and abetted by the support of Wink Martin Dale's defense and if there's one thing the Giants don't do anymore it's forced turnovers right on defense they're in the bottom third of turnovers forced and takeaways by NFL defenses in fact there are only two there are only three teams with fewer turnovers forced than the Giants it's the Browns Titans and Raiders so the Raiders have only forced five turnovers this season the Titans and the Browns have only forced seven and then the Giants are in a it looks like a five-way tie for eight turnovers forced that's the Cowboys Jaguars Patriots Giants and Jets and so the bottom line is you know we all know DeVito's the one game where DeVito really made some plays with the game on the line to win was that Green Bay game you know he made some key plays and throws he had 10 carries for 71 yards and he had a nice throw to Wandale Robinson there on that game ceiling drive but most of what happened that helped the Giants when he was in there it was you know the the friendliest way you could describe it is complimentary football that's the friendliest way towards the offense you could describe it so my point is is that now you're now you're throwing Tommy out there against Todd Bowles defense and without a defense on the giant side that takes the ball away you know I know Baker Mayfield has been a little bit loose with the rock lately but I think this is you know this is a this is a recipe for a complete disaster I think an entire house cleaning is on the table here in New York that's what I believe all right let's see British gridiron says let's go British friendly stream what's up British says when Shane said it would be a football decision do you think he was referring to starting Tommy over Locke and Locke's five million dollar contract no British what I think he was doing and what I think a lot of people in football I talked to thought he was doing is the Giants they don't want to be open to a grievance from Daniel Jones and his agents and his camp that he was benched purely to avoid paying him more money so they're trying to make it sound like and have their friends in the media continue to say it's football it's only football it's only football because they don't want people saying it was the money they don't want people saying it was only the injury guarantee they will they don't want a grievance being filed through the NFLPA that the Giants are making decisions to avoid paying players money so that's the way people view that I held Shane's feet to the fire in that at that point because you know that was too general of a comment and term to me it was pure you purely have to answer the question yes or no are you making the decision based on what you think gives your team the best chance to win that's what that's what matters are you making the decision based on what gives your team the best chance to win Daniel says Giants incapable of making a correct decision this is another one Shane should have just let Daniel Jones finish the season this would lead to an epic train wreck end of season fire coach and GM well I think they're trying to protect themselves and save their jobs and also save that money and make a contract decision and it's all tied up in a ball of a mess that they created for themselves so you know like I've said plenty of times the Giants are in a really difficult spot but they're the ones who put themselves in it thank you so much for that Daniel always supportive of our channel really appreciate you Antonio says hypothetically why would you not give Drew Locke a shot and if he actually somehow were to play well you resign him to be the veteran QB along with the rookie QB right exactly Brett says tear it all down they bench the most they bench the most heart in the league oh so meaning Daniel Jones plays with a lot of heart yeah you know I don't I'm I'm interested to get into the locker room I'm interested to hear what the players have to say about this I'll say that NYC says any rumors and innuendo about how Steve Tisch is feeling it's sort of a help us Obi-Wan Kenobi you're our only hope type of situation you know I'm beginning to wonder where the heptus the Tisch family is you know I mean this team they own half the team here it's time to hear from them I mean it's beyond time to hear from the Tisch family Steve Tisch the Tisch family in general I mean they own half the team don't they where are they where you know why aren't why aren't we hearing from them on what's going on my only take is this NYC this is the only acceptable reality now from the Tisch side it's that just as John Maris said John Maris said listen we're not changing it during the season but he said I don't anticipate making any changes after the season either but him saying that I think is him saying listen I'm ruling out a change during the year after the year you'll hear from us one way or another right so that's when I think I don't know if we hear publicly from the Tisch's at that point based on the lack of public comments now but I do believe you know that's the only explanation the only satisfactory way that Steve Tisch and the Tisch family can rationalize their lack of speaking now we need to hear how they're going to weigh in right? John says could have spent the five million towards SACWAN I don't understand the lock signing NYC says how about the 47.8 million we have on the cap for Jones yeah so the Giants get out of uh they get out of money obviously for next year on the cap hit you know based on the fact that they would not activate the injury guarantees that helps them getting out of it but of course yes the money they committed to Daniel Jones undercuts them in a huge way here so you know it's this is this was a situation where the Giants could have instead so go back to the off-season after the 2022 year okay going into 2023 spring 2023 Joe Shane and the Giants at one point had a judge that the right move was to tag Daniel Jones and pay SACWAN Barkley the fact that they when they were unable to get SACWAN done for you know okay you could argue about why they didn't the fact they were not able to get him done and their process and their pivot was let's do the total opposite of that and sign Daniel and tag SACWAN right that threw them into a mess because while they did give themselves a trap door out after this second season with Daniel Jones the amount of money they committed to him the amount of missteps then Joe Shane acknowledged making in order to justify the contract and based on his and Davole's belief that they had now found their quarterback and their team that is the part that is really hard to stomach as you get to this point in the process the fact that they are going back to Tommy DeVito now benching Daniel Jones the guy you paid they don't have SACWAN they couldn't add neighbors to SACWAN they just replace SACWAN with neighbors they now don't trust the backup they gave five million guaranteed they're going back to DeVito who they know is not good enough because they've shown you that even after the feel good story of last year it all just compounds Jacob says smack that like and sub button for the best reporter beat reporter in the business thank you so much Jacob always for saying that being here supporting us can't thank you enough and also can't reiterate enough what Jacob is saying the subscriptions and the likes thank you to everybody especially doing the super chats and the super stickers and all of you supporting my bookie boom chaga and estate 98 which is the best way to support our podcast but at the bare minimum those likes while we are live that continues to generate more awareness on the giants fans and from NFL fans around the country that we're live that we're here that we're doing this on the believe network and on talking ball with pat Leonard on the youtube channel PL on NFL it really helps takes you two seconds hit the like button while we are live if you like what we are doing all right let's see we have some more super chats in the queue it looks like it's Danny says pat if you get a chance can you ask john marrah if he still feels they did everything possible to screw this kids up and if he's still glad that they resigned daniel jones looking forward to that next opportunity danny um john marrah one interesting thing he said that kind of it kind of contradicted a little bit so when he gave the vote of confidence in october to brine dable and joe shane through the end of the season when he was asked about daniel jones he essentially said i'm not going to get into evaluating specific players right now but he did say that there are a lot of other things going wrong with this offense and reasons why we're underperforming then just the quarterback was essentially what he said so i believe that ownership does not view this as just a daniel jones problem and i think all of the other reasons why they're not winning they're not performing well i think dabel this episode is brought to you by progressive insurance fiscally responsible financial geniuses monetary magicians these are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to progressive and save hundreds because progressive offers discounts for paying in full owning a home and more plus you can count on their great customer service to help you when you need it so your dollar goes a long way visit progressive.com to see if you could save on car insurance progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates potential savings will vary not available in all states or situations this is a mini meditation guided by bombous repeat after me i'm comfy comfy i'm cozy cozy i have zero blisters on my toes blisters and that's because i wear bombous the softest sucks underwear and t-shirts that give back one purchased equals one donated now go to bombous dot com slash listen and use code listen for 20 percent off your first purchase that's b-o-m-b-a-s dot com slash listen and use code listen at checkout is out of here at the end of the year i think the only question is whether joe shane sticks it out that's my opinion all right let's see the kid says pre pretty incredible they have bypass drew lock another five million dollar mistake uh dakob says pat if jones gets injured on giant's property do they still have to pay him yes so it's not just if he gets injured in a game it's also if he gets injured in practice and if he gets injured let's say lifting weights in the facility that's why dable was asked if jones was going to be separated from the team entirely he said no he's here but i i'm not quite sure he's going to be on the practice field you know i don't really i don't think that's the case we will see we'll follow up on that on wednesday john says malleak willis or malleak neighbors are went from jadon daniel's cannon to daniel jones not being able to throw more than 30 yards and now it's the veto that's a great point though about regardless of what anyone thinks about the quarterbacks he's talking about there and the cut in the descriptions what john's alluding to it you know i think is this is a question right how is malleak neighbor is going to react if tommy devito comes in and it's worse right i mean you saw his body language when drew lock wasn't able to get him the ball in the fourth quarter against the eagles jacob says pat why uh why devito he took us out of the running for a quarterback last year the defense took you out of the running as well as devito there in that stretch is what happened i mean they got to go to somebody if they're benching daniel right jacob so um you know i think the question is whether they're going to a quarterback who's going to continue to help them lose or if they really believe he's going to help them win games and here's the thing jacob you know going back to the chase young bowl and the giants beat washington they got a the number four pick instead of number two and then they end up drafting Andrew thomas instead of chase young that's the better player you got right um so you know you do that type of thing and you can't say oh we know at number two we're going to definitely get a number player the number at number four and we have to lose because of that if you do that's tanking now it can work sometimes it does work it has worked right but you still got to not screw up the pick which is something that plenty of general managers have done right i mean the giants even though sekhwan bark was now an mvp candidate they still obviously would have been better drafting josh allen in 2018 right when dave gettleman was here so um you know if the giants had had a different pick this past year it would have benefited them because they would have gotten jade and daniel's drake may who both look like very good players right uh but hard to play that game jagan but i also think i think they need to show some progress and some results to keep their jobs here i don't think i don't think that they can continue to bottom out like they just lost to the carolina panthers and now they're putting tami devito in i think this is a train off the tracks cam says i'm stupid and he can see why players and coaches don't mess with me cam obviously has no idea what he's talking about because coaches and players do mess with me let's see john says there's absolutely zero chance in my mind that dion sanders would allow joe shane to drift his son if the giants have the first pick also be curious what pat shermer for former giants head coach offensive coordinator would have to say about that dynamic focus says jones had plenty of opportunities oh yeah no daniel had no daniel had plenty of opportunities no doubt about it this was always coming this was coming you know they're underperforming he hasn't played well enough i just fight back against the reason that he's the only problem that's all iconic says pat will not starting lock be a bad organizational move for shane in next year's free agency that's a great question iconic especially true lock moved his family across the country because he thought he was gonna have a chance to play here it looked like an obvious chance to compete and play here and now he's not playing a very bad look for the giants and i do believe iconic that that's maybe the one way that it'll get all the way up to joe shane from an accountability standpoint is all of these players believing that they don't do things the right way here how can how loud does that continue to be in order to impact negatively the way that you can acquire players i think that's a really good question sam says daniel jones gives us the best chance to win sam i do believe that i agree with that nyc says the problems run deeper than jones pat is a hundred percent correct shane is a joke d kit says no no no pat you cannot like how they've done it with jones but please do not downplay how bad he's been for the franchise d kit i just think listen i was right there with their a their judgment this spring that oh we made a mistake on the contract right so go get a quarterback bow next just threw for 300 plus yards and four touchdowns and a blowout win over the falcons what are we doing like you can't say you don't like the quarterback and then not replace him and not sign a true backup to him and now what oh there was nothing we could do what do you mean there's nothing you could do but also wilson's leading the eight and two steelers but d kit i don't disagree with you on this is why i i know it it's it's pointless to keep parsing this but i you bring me back to the middle of it which is correct which is i understand that the right move here is to go find your next quarterback based on all the factors frankly i think daniel jones would be better off not be in here anyway my point is just how poorly they've handled it and i don't like how they've scapegoated him on the way out and publicly blamed him i don't like that i don't like how they've done it again like i said this is a business guys get cut all the time traded all the time whatever it's a business i just don't like how they've done it that's all uh focus says i wish daniel jones the best of luck wherever he ends up me too steve says come on pat unfairly scapegoated you've seen the same games as the rest of us and daniel has not been good enough period but i think the rhetoric coming out of the giants has been they are good enough if they had better quarterback play and i don't agree with that but he steve you're right he hasn't been good enough lately obviously there were plays in that carolina panther's game that he missed that he should have made no doubt about it sam says daniel jones gives the jones the best chance to win football games i do believe that d kid says but the same passion that that people had with regard to jones damage to the franchise please direct that now to shannon dabel who have caused just as much if not more damage nyc says this regime clearly doesn't have a greater plan their goal has always been to win micro transactions in the court of public opinion what a comment by nyc that is so well said better said than anything i think i've ever said because it just gets right to the heart of the matter i think that is perfectly said by you there nyc um i mean i said it in the in the story i filed for the daily news today i said going in the toilet in year three of a regime and benching a player you paid 82 million isn't isn't part of a master plan neither is skipping over the backup you paid five million as the insurance policy like that none of that is a plan losing last year so badly that you were in position possibly to draft a quarter back last year that wasn't part of the plan either like the fact that they were even in position possibly to get a quarter back in last year's draft before winning their way out of it that wasn't part of the plan none of this was part of the plan totally agree with you nyc oh by the way can we just say can i get a can i get a point for calling that daniel jones is benching and the news was going to be leaked to the national media i told you guys that right i told you it was gonna happen on sunday it happened on monday so i was one day late i was one day off but you know you get that target emoji you know the bullseye emoji that's what that's that's what you can throw up there mao says and here we are nyc says they do not know what their ideal ideal team looks like let alone how to build it came access they're throwing blind darts three says don't pay the running backs who are the clowns that came up with that there are levels daniel jones over sequon crash dummies one stupid prizes zero credibility all of this predictable i mean there was literally a a graphic on one of the prime time football television telecast either sunday or monday or thursday a week ago and it said the year the return of the running back the year of the running back had guys like sequon derrick henry joe mixon like all the aran jones like all these guys who have been paid at running back and have augmented their teams and proven that they are worth that money what i always said about sequon barkley with the giants is this sequon barkley is a great player really good talent they never they draft drafting him when they did was was wrong they weren't ready for him they weren't a team that needed one more piece they've get them and thought i'm going to give eli maddings sequon barkley and we're going to take off and go on one more super bull run they were never fully understanding what they were that's what the giants don't do well and they're not the only team right they're not the only team look at the dowels cowboys right now the dowels cowboys are an embarrassment when it comes to thinking who they are versus what they really are right an embarrassment but this is one thing the giants consistently don't do well enough is a judge who they are and what their plan should be because of it john says pat lock was told he would be quarterback to its signing seeing how they lied to lock does this impact other potential free agents from trusting the giants words that iconic i believe came up uh asked that question as well i think that's a very good point and one we will find out in the spring i do think i know i i sound like a parrot repeating myself i do think that the way the giants have treated people from the front office in this regime is going to cost them their jobs i don't know what that's going to how it's going to manifest itself coming down the the the pike ending conversations with ownership but i do think that reality exists sam says pat is really yapping my ears off with these ads sam the reality of the real world is this this can't be launched and done in the time and effort in the talent um you know that i bring on this podcast like benny fowler and all the guests we have on this show and what we're continuing to build we're going to be on super bowl radio row this year really excited for all of that the sponsors are what makes it happen so um thank you for listening to the sponsorships and also understanding that um this is the real world and you got to pay uh you get you get what you pay for i'm a big believer in that whether it's fashion with salarettas that i'm i'm wearing to all my giants games for my arrival videos whether it's a car that you buy whether it's a house you buy in this market and whether it's podcast that you listen to you get what you pay for it nyc says yes john in the list of reasons to not trust them as long not just that undefined says hey pat as debul why he thinks he should get a fourth year when harbaugh has turned around san diego or los angeles and yet in less than a year well that you know what and undefined that's not even a question for brian debul anymore you're absolutely right but that's a question for john marron steve tich. tereek says they chose daniel jones over sequon barkley what kind of next level stupid would do such a thing johnnie says joe shein has to go sam says darius uh sleaton was talking about some i don't know i don't understand that tony says pat are you worried any player is going to try and choke you this wednesday no no uh the players have always responded well to me and also you know one interesting thing about our business is i think the most important thing about our business and not just football just in general you the most important thing in our business is to answer to what you said or wrote or you know put out there the next day in the locker room or wherever it is like you show up basically that's what's important so i'm always accountable to what i say whether it's positive negative whatever and i've had plenty of positive constructive conversations with guys sometimes they don't agree with what i'm saying but i think they always understand where i'm coming from and what i'm basing my opinions on and i've always been upfront and honest and you know you have run-ins with some some people but no that's no the way you're describing how you feel the locker room feels about me and where you're directing your angst and frustration with the team is not the way that the players have have addressed or directed their frustrations so that's not reflective let's see william says why do you keep saying debos lost the rock locker room where you're getting this from has a player told you this it's obvious why lock is not playing they want to see if the veto can be a backup definitely not what he said they're trying they think he can give them a spark this year now that's why they're putting him in and then uh yes i i do know that the locker room is wearing down has worn down i think you saw Dexter Lawrence screaming at the defensive backs and the defensive backs coach over there on the sideline in pittsburgh um we're still want to know why he was benched at the start of the second half in germany um there are other signs behind the scenes things i can't report on the record frankly but guys who are out on this process this operation um guys are going through the motions and i think that whether it gets louder that may end up becoming the reason why people like yourself further understand what i'm saying or not um you know but i think that the absence of results along with the frustrations about how the games are being mismanaged um how poor the offenses and can't support the defense how the defense can't stop the run guys starting to slump their shoulders and question roster decisions like the nick McLeod decision was the latest one you've seen saquon barkley out there indicting their process last year and talking further and more publicly about how poorly and nastily they handled his situation and so all of these things are kind of accumulating and building um we'll just find out whether that continues to come to the forefront in all these games but you've had a players quitting on the field already all the signs are there so obviously you could not trust what i'm telling you but you know i'm telling you what's happening aj thinks he can see divino winning at least two to three games what do you think pat uh two would be my ceiling i had them winning four games at the start of the year i think looking at the remaining schedule i guess the only way they could get to three is this is if the eagles rest everybody in that final game and then the giants win that game as well against a bunch of backups in philadelphia i mean i guess that's potentially possible um you know and that could get them to five wins you know instead of four but i think the Colts game is the only one i look at on their schedule right now and i say you know i could see them winning that game possibly um but yeah i think four total so two more wins is their ceiling john says steve tish should tell john mare to kick rocks and then he will take over football decisions shane should be fired today along with daniel jones and promote brandon brown brown's been involved in all these decisions as well though with these quarterbacks win with the giants dana is saying um about other quarterbacks they could have brought in uh well i guess we'll never i guess we'll never know as the as the meme goes william says lock is trashed but even if they did start him they probably want to get a top pick so they can grab the quarterback that they want that has to be part of it william i think you're right about that um tariq says devita devita only look good because of staqua staqua embarkally stop the delusions and because of the defense i think it's going to be a huge wake-up call and yc says if we have the first pick they're all getting fired yes that's i yeah i agree like i think winning only one more no more games and this descending into chaos is not a recipe for keeping the current regime. Marjorie thinks devito is much better than daniel jones interesting sam thinks the only two quarterbacks the nfl worst in daniel are devito and drew lock hard to fathom says dabel saying it's on him and the offense is just trying to save face the reality is jones has had six years to show what he can do he is consistently shown he's a below average player also it's dabel walking back like obviously he was there after the pittsburgh game blaming it on the quarterback right and blaming the key turnover on the quarterback and now it's like oh yeah we're not putting it just on the qb but we all know joe shane was there on the sideline saying the bears gm it must be nice not looking for quarterbacks now dabel blaming daniel publicly so that's where i go with that but yeah obviously listen anyone who thinks i'm debating then benching daniel jones at this point and and you know this was the obvious result of what we've seen the team's two and eight right he's got the injury guarantee the contract structure a certain way you were taking him out okay we all know it was coming and we all know he hasn't played well enough so no one's debating that here uh bread says i'm kind of happy for daniel jones he can go where fans want him from the start i agree uh tariq says daniel jones is better than devito stop the cap um sam says devito played horribly last season the defense handed him those wins barb says never thought i'd say this ever but i don't care if we lose every game for better picks wow yeah barb it's you know what what you have to wonder now is we have to wonder now is have john marah and steve tish quietly behind the scenes accepted that the best thing for them is to have a high pick and is this a tank right you and i know that john marah says if there's one thing you will never do it is tank right but are they aware that by benching daniel and going to tommy they're more likely to go two and fifteen or three and fourteen and it's going to give them a high draft pick is that are they signing off on that or based on what they've said what what based on what john marah has said he's looking for better play and progress right so that's what john marah has said so what are they looking for here you know that is that is the question all right let's see here we have here oh by the way uh let me see dana says in five years daniel jones will be on another team and come back to beat the giants we'll uh bookmark that one dana see if that comes true almighty finesse wants shador sanders sousa's what are people afraid of when it comes to devito winning games he's not any good shagana says the giants are going to draft karson beck um shogana says then brian flores will win the lawsuit that'll be an interesting uh off-season topic because that's still hovering there almighty says what's single terry contract will he be cut in the off-season um yeah you well dable likes him obviously but that has not panned out well so there's a good chance but isn't it funny there's another contract you're asking about whether the guy they gave what five and a half million at running back are they going to cut him one year into his contract like this is the general manager in the operation we're talking about here what are we doing shagana says sanders will be a radar dian's not letting that happen coming to new york starboy says joe shane is a coward for hiding behind dable as they bench his franchise quarterback clean house starboy i do think bad luck for the general manager to come out at the bi-week and then do this press conference and act like well we'll make the decision we don't know and then let dable answer for it i think that's a great point george says do you think they will still get fired at the end of the season path i do there's people who don't think that but i do michael says pat good questions during the dable press conference dable stated that tommy's experience last year and overall comprehension of the system as two reasons he was selected to start right yes exactly but he also said we we have confidence and drew too this isn't a reflection on drew um that's an impossible thing to say and ridiculous because obviously if you thought he was any good you'd be put him into the game right unless you're looking for a higher draft pick and you think tommy being worse helps you lose while you pretend you're trying to win right so that's they're really in a difficult spot no good answers there qwerty says a once proud organization with one with some goober slash rapper showing his watch d kit says is there any truth to a new rumor that they wanted jones to be the number two and he declined haven't heard that i'm a fan says must draft uh jines must draft a quarter back in 2025 no excuses i want a dual threat quarterback draft jailin noro out of alabama finesse wants shardor sanders will be interesting to see tariq says it's crazy how espn's narrative controls people espn says don't pay running backs and fans repeat it and bum organizations sign daniel jones and let's say quan walk uh shagana says shardor is not coming to new york to pay high taxes in vegas is a tax-free state plus it brady is there n4 says finally a beat writer that doesn't do damage control for the giant's front office thank you n4 for saying that because i know i got some questions earlier from people angry at me or saying you know that players are going to choke me or whatever listen to this i am going to tell you where the information is taking me that's what i'm going to do right i'm going to try to provide full context i'm not going to tell you something monday and omit something from friday that's relevant i'm going to give you the full context of the decision and i've just been covering a lot of losing football here with the giants now obviously i covered the nfl as well for the new york daily news and here on the talking ball with patlin or podcast on the believe network but uh the base and the foundation of what i do is i'm at the giants every day covering the giants as well and uh kind of my hands into this team since 2016 and frankly n4 that's part of what i don't like about this process you know forget the daniel jones whether he deserved to be pinched obviously he's benched okay it's done what i don't like is the giants both overtly and through the national media constantly reinforcing to fans and to the public it's daniel jones it's daniel jones daniel jones's fault he's the reason we're bad it's only daniel we would have had uh six we would be six and four instead of two and eight if it wasn't daniel jones right that's what they're constantly hitting you right oh there's another misplay by daniel jones right now he has plenty of missed opportunities yes he's part of the reason they're two and eight of course he is but to me i'm always going to try to be the person giving you uh you know what i think is the truth but at least my version of the informed truth and not some version of something that somebody just told me sal says the giant should cut daniel now uh flip-endistical production says the danny donuts era has ended we all gave gave sir donuts our belief and he gave us back great effort truly great effort at times but unfortunately you can't polish a bad quarterback right gotcha okay um donna says is jones a backup next year possibly um you know a team will be able to pay him very little in order to you know to or i should say be able to play you know pay him a lot less money than he's used to making now pay him backup money for sure um that is something that we will see here with daniel jones next year there's going to be enough teams in the nfl who need a quarterback um that you're going to find um a landing spot i think where he can have fine playing time and give a team something positive and encouraging here's the other thing about the narrative element of the daniel jones thing the giants are experts at running people out of town and burying their reputations and daniel jones can be not good enough and not worth the contract he can still be a guy who can help another nfl team so don't throw the baby out with the bathwater because daniel jones is a worthwhile he's a good person he works hard as a player and he's going to help some other team chris says the problem with football is quarterbacks get all the blame and all the praise well you know coaches general managers quarterbacks as as mike tomlin said that's why they pay me the big bucks right to make those decisions to be accountable right um let's see british gridiron says how much has ownership had their thumb on the scale with all of the past mistakes did they force shane to keep daniel jones and saquon after the playoff season um they say that everyone was involved in that then it wasn't ownership forcing them to do it certainly joe shane admitting at his press conference that he made key mistakes coming out of 2022 and not putting it on ownership or continuing to say it was somebody else or imply it was somebody else and not him that to me showed you joe shane knew very well um that you know he made that decision and it was his mistake almighty finessa's higher variable or belljack but british to your point ownership does not skate here and can't skate do you think pat shimmer might have bad mouth the john's organizations dion sanders which will influence his decision not to let shadoor sanders to get drafted by the giants i can't speak for pat i don't know what he would tell dion but i can tell you that he would probably be able to tell him pluses and minuses right like if you asked me you know um about one of my experiences with something where it's something i where i worked or uh you know whatever it is i could give you here's the positives and here's the negatives or you know whatever like um i think that's what you'll find vonix another misquarterback says i'm a fan no doubt um bret says jones goes to the cowboys and they make the playoffs ha ha wing should have been the coach wing should have been the coach no doubt about it um the giants worse off without martin dale here you know really what happened is debels temper and his lack of game management and his finger pointing at the defense last year what it ended up doing was it ran a really good coach out of town and martin dale's defense was helping to conceal the personnel weaknesses of joe shane's roster and the inability of debels offense to really function so now debel doesn't have that security blanket and you're seeing the results in the team candy man says pat you have to admit with a better quarterback we could have won a couple more games wouldn't make a playoff playoff team but we'd at least be competitive well candy that's what i said is that maybe the giants could have been four and six right now instead of two and eight um if daniel had made a few more of those plays that he didn't make but you're not talking about a good team with a different quarterback here there's certainly not a quarterback away which is what they're trying to sell michael says dissing saquon by telling him to circle back if he doesn't get what he wants drew lock signing him as the number two daniel jones by overtly trying to trade out for a quarterback really bad look for shane i agree joey green says with this week quarterback draft with the giants be better trading place trading back getting picks and signing justin fields or trading for a vet joey i'd feel more comfortable in that sense about trading for an an established vet rather than just getting some stopgap who like let's face it like somebody said earlier there's no guarantee some of these other quarterbacks that the giant that the giants could have signed would have succeeded here but doesn't that reflect poorly on brian dabel and on joe shane's roster like you're talking about they wouldn't be able to support those quarterbacks the same way so if kevin o'kano can get something out of sam darnold if the giants couldn't get getting engaged can be stressful getting the right ring won't be at blue nile dot com the jewelers at blue nile dot com have sparkle down to a science with beautiful lab grown diamonds worthy of your most brilliant moments their lab grown diamonds are independently graded and guaranteed identical to natural diamonds and ready to ship to your door get fifty dollars off your purchase of five hundred dollars or more with code pod at blue nile dot com that's blue nile dot com code pod for fifty dollars off the same thing out of him who does that reflect on and so if the reality is well Justin fields wouldn't have necessarily done do the same thing for the giants next year because because why because they don't know how to get the most out of them because the coach can't scheme it up as the offensive play caller right so that's i think the unfortunate reality you run into there i would if you're not drafting a quarterback i think you're trading for a guy who can play who you know can play and you're spending the assets on that but um you know i think they're drafting a quarterback just a question on who's drafting jay jay rock says if the giants don't have a top two pick at the end of the season who do they pick that's a great question i think they trade up for one paul says does this regime have any clue as to what they're doing i do not believe they have a um an adequate plan in place no paulo says who would have thought that hard knocks would destroy the perception of the organization almost beyond repair before thanksgiving me good point though i know your question was rhetorical michael says did it ever occur to shane that it was saquon who got the ball into the end zone in red zone territory well that's what i said and also if you remember that's what tim mcdonald said we're removing our touchdowns we're removing all these things like what's our offensive identity and that point got overlooked and ignored british wants to draft travis hunter instead of a quarterback have him play db and key drives on offense that's going to win more games serious says you do realize they had tie rod for a few years right would have kept him but was too expensive and was always hurt that is not why they tried to resign him they kept tie rod on the bench last year for a healthy time of devito so he didn't resign here um let's see bret says before yesterday pat we were tied in drops with the eagles commanders and cowboys combined yeah no tons tons of drops i know slatens had a bunch of drops theo johnson has a bunch of drops to me to name two guys everybody's been involved tyro and tracy dropped on the interception in the red zone there um michael says what bothers me most are all the italian stereotype jokes that come along with devito not all italian's are like that uh yeah no agree michael yeah it's like not every giant fan is like that not every italian certainly is like that it plays into like the jersey shore stuff um and it's you know it's a sideshow is what it is it's a sideshow it turns him into like a mascot instead of a football player too i don't like it feel good story about him personally but i agree with you uh amani points out that the chargers have herbert already there uh that probably helps a hell of a lot yeah well also though that team was in total disrepair even with herbert there last year a2 says we win daniel jones is gone uh let's see all right all right let's see who is next a2 says in my opinion they sign lock to not be a real threat to jones now that they're done with daniel jones dabel is going with the guy that he's seen win games go cut let's go poor tommy won't be able to leave his house if he wins three games again says undefined that's a good problem to have um samuel says who do you suggest to run this organization and return the giants to greatness i would tab double check that's what i would do t-pats as tiki barber was right tiki said weeks ago devito would start over lock if jones got benched yeah no i mean i think i think you could see that possibly coming but the the difference between seeing it coming and then actually doing it was so different right because you're you're inviting so much criticism of your quarterback uh personnel evaluation of drew lock and that investment by doing it so it was almost like you felt like especially because i remember i talked to drew lock after he played that fourth quarter against the eagles and he wasn't making excuses but he basically said like it's really tough to go in when you're not game playing for it and the defense knows you're throwing because you're down three touchdowns you're not running the ball like it just wasn't a and wasn't a true like chance to give him to play and so it really is doing wrong by him doing this so that's why even though it felt like it was possible doing it is like another level but yes for sure that was accurate vf says was rewatching daniel jones playoff win he was throwing to no receivers while cousins had jefferson and t j hockens and he exactly had no support yep authentic says will you ask him about losing the locker room yes i i asked i asked dable i've asked dable several times about the locker room i asked him today about whether he's worried that the locker room isn't going to understand benching a guy in part because it's financial and not just playing parlay says look at the 2018 draft we could have had josh out on a nick chub instead we took sequan and will her nandas this is not on dable he got the best out of jones better than any head coach with jones they haven't gotten anything out of jones the last two years they just got a little bit out of them the first season but that that year they went to the playoffs mostly because of their defense and their good game management across the board like of their specific opponents and then obviously daniel had the two games against the cults of the vikings john says lock has no future here he was brought into be a backup if the team was competitive and daniel jones got hurt davito has to be the choice here all right any inside intel on how the visit with colorado and sanders went uh says came back not yet how do you not fire them and see if belcher can fix this embarrassment of an organization says said says be door be doors yeah i agree i agree i don't know how you can't go to that all right let's see d-pad says davito won games last year in part due to winks defense and sequan i do not see him having the same success minus andrew thomas and a horrible run defense right andrew came back for that that's a good point andry says who do you think is the best fit in this coming draft at quarterback uh i think milro ward and um i think milro ward and shadore all have that dual threat ability you know that um that you like that dabel likes that shane likes i do not know if they're going to be here to be overseeing this quarterback selection and what their preference is um you know i think shadore is exciting i don't know if they're going to invite everything that comes with him including the dion factor as well as our is dion going to steer him clear of new york right so uh those are all questions i'm still henry i still need to do more work on that um i still need to do more work on the on the quarterbacks and that's what i'm going to spend the bulk of the rest of this season and in the next off season doing that and the gm and coach search that guy says gm needs to go chris says oh the giant's best passing on the quarterback draft class this year and best going for that hard to say that they would be better off doing that considering that there's no promise in the quarterback room right now for the future how do you rationalize that um certainly the one way you could like i said earlier you know trading for an established vet versus signing some stopgap if this gm and coach are here next year which i can't see that happening at this rate but if they are um you know again like you need to win some football games it can't just be waiting again to the next draft i mean this is an organization that says they don't tank you're just going to keep losing until you're a better quarterback class comes in i mean that's essentially what you've been doing and you're still screwing it up all right let's see who are we going to here uh all right uh time for our uh okay p asked a super chat question and then i'm going to ask our estate 98 giant's trivia question of the day so Pete says personally i think we are quarterback away because i think dable needs a certain type of quarterback to run his offense proficiently daniel jones couldn't run his offense well i mean what is his type of quarterback because if your type is josh allen who is a top two or three quarterback in the entire nfl i mean every offensive coach looks better when they have a top three quarterback so you know i think getting a better quarterback yes that's a goal but are you guaranteed to have a better offense and unlock things i mean josh al and you watch him you just beat mohomes and the kansas city chiefs like this is this is where we're at all right let's see okay time for the estate 98 trivia question of the day um this is when i ask you a giant trivia question and so in the comment section in the queue when i ask this question i need you all to give your answer as quickly as you can in the comment section when you answer that question the first person to answer correctly will receive a free bottle of estate 98 coffee that's one of our sponsors okay so i will mail it to you you will send me your address on instagram on dms and i will get that to you so we're going to go to our estate 98 trivia question here all right your question is in 2019 daniel jones rookie season he made a start his first start in tampa bay he had four total touchdowns two passing two rushing he threw for 336 yards and two touchdown there was a player in the giant's locker room after that game dropping f bombs and talking about how great daniel jones looked and projecting that he was the dude and was going to be a great player for the future of the franchise but it was out of character for the f bombs to come out both out of that locker room and out of that player it's particularly about a guy and daniel jones who you know seemed like uh you know the white bread quarterback like a guy that there was not a lot too emotionally but there was a player in there dropping f bombs talking about f bombs happening in the huddle while daniel jones was galvanizing the team to that 32 to 31 win over the tampa bay buccaneers who was that player in the locker room talking about the f bombs after that game i got to go find and find this quote as well uh let's see let me see if i can find the exact quote looks like people are struggling with it right ahead here um all right let's see and actually this this player said that daniel jones entered the huddle with the giant's trailing 12 to 3 in the game and he said let's effing score and so this veteran player on that giant's offense revealed daniel jones dropping an f bomb in the huddle who was it looks like no one's got the right answer yet we will see that continue to roll on peep thank you so much for that um super chat there as you guys are answering and guessing want to remind you we are sponsored by my bookie uh my bookie is rolling out the red carpet for sports betters this football season pat's picks are hitting my james winston over's hit this week and doing very well against the spread for the season predicted the giants be eight and two at the buy they were two and eight at the buy they were two and eight at the buy so um given that need you to use this promo code pat's picks at the link in my social media profiles and it will give you a 100 match on your first deposit of fifty dollars or more all the way up to a thousand dollars plus a ten dollar casino chip with my bookie also brought to you by boom chaga mushroom super drink a natural extract loaded with anti-inflammatory immune boosting antioxidants and heart healthy compounds you can easily pour this natural liquid supplement into any of your favorite drinks i put mine in my coffee every morning and immediately feel the difference chaga has the ability to lower cholesterol reduce inflammation and improve immune and heart health with its beta glucans and antioxidants go to boomchaga.com today use the promo code talking ball 25 or the qr code here and you'll get a month's supply for thirty dollars start feeling the difference today at boomchaga.com and brought to you by estate 98 coffee state 98 coffee is a specialty coffee concentrate perfect for when you want to make a quick cup and skip the lines it takes me less than 10 seconds to make a delicious estate 98 iced or hot coffee it's great as a mixer for espresso martinis and each bottle can make up to 16 cups go to estate 98.com back size talking ball to get an exclusive offer for 80% off your first order i saw the correct answer come in and the correct answer which veteran player revealed that daniel jones was dropping f bombs in the huddle in his first start in a win in tampa bay and which player was continuing to drop f bombs talking about how daniel jones was definitely going to be the guy for their future j rock comes in with the right answer it is russell shepherd the veteran wide receiver russell shepherd old shep as we jokingly call them and as they call them in the locker room j rock here's what you do direct message me on instagram my handle is p l on nfl they are same as my youtube channel and send me your address or p o box wherever you want it sent and you will have a free bottle of estate 98 coffee sent to that address great job j rock getting that question correct all right we're gonna roll down the queue here make sure we get to all your questions before we head out because this is obviously a huge day around the giants team and around the beat all right let's see we have that guy says the gm said himself he wasn't going to get fired i hope he's so wrong yeah that was pretty interesting for him to say that definitively that guy says tommy's only coming in because he's a whole hometown favorite bret says pat you need a raise for this madness i appreciate you saying that bret from your lips to god's ears i hope my editor is here that as well parlay says if daybell stays i can see us getting mill row a mobile quarterback and can throw the deep ball just like josh allen type of quarterback jake says chadore sanders wants vegas john p says the best landing spot for him is kansas city in a tason hill type role like that he's talking about daniel jones that guy says you can polish gold you can polish silver you can even cut polish bronze yeah i get you parlay says if we have the top pick in the draft four quarter back as you see the dryness draft yeah i don't know the answer to that yet i i would be lying if i told you i knew the answer to that at this moment bret says if janiel jones got ten thousand dollars per hit who made out better daniel or the owners he got wrecked every year got up every time the wolves will enjoy this next piece of meat yep no doubt michael says elide payton and chroy aceman reveled over drew locks performances last season against the nineers and eagles trash he is not good candidate to sub for jail and hurts next year stanley says how can brian able have an inept offense when in buffalo he had a thriving offense with josh allen think your answer there is that he no longer has josh allen phil says do you think trevor lorance would be a better option if available next season um so so far lorance has looked like a quarterback with promise but shortcomings similar to daniel jones even if you think he's a better player than daniel jones has left jackson bill wanting a lot more barbs says she doesn't want justin fields kirk says john says i could see broncos john pate and taking daniel jones on a cheap contract and turning him into tason hill look alike yeah i mean could also just see him getting better football to daniel jones in general but i see what you mean with bow mix there now we shouldn't pick a quarterback without talking to tod mick shay says barb go back and look at his analysis of jones spot on yep have always told you guys to the processing of jones is the thing that is lacking that gets overlooked he actually has the physical attributes it's the processing that's the problem that guy says that's the only reason he's starting how a fan base can we be as stupid to be can we be this stupid to be happy to watch a game that guy says like eli says in his commercial we're not going to win a game all year but we won't lose a tailgate especially with tommy cutlets stanley says why are people saying belicha can't relate to young players when he's a year removed from coaching there's been a huge wave against kind of the older established coach you know one guy who's bucking the chin right now is vick fangio sticking around going to philadelphia in the defense of coordinator role and coaching his butt off there in philie but by and large this past cycle wasn't was reflective of owners across the board trying to go younger and um and uh you know trying to go younger and um essentially forgoing experience and so i think what you're seeing one one reason i believe the nfl is down and there's so much bad football and so many bad teams is that a lot of the best coaches have not gotten jobs you know verable belicha even martin dale's a defensive coordinator having to go to college um you know and then you know he's going to take that and you would imagine next year some nfl team is going to be very fortunate or the year after or whenever that michigan contract is up if he ever comes back into the league guys like martin dale guys like uh jim schwartz who was a guy who was a retread in um as a head coach who wasn't working out in the nfl bounced around heads up in cleveland he's an excellent defensive coordinator there um let's see who else uh definitely like a lot of established coaches who like belichak if he's in dallas philadelphia eventually uh new york uh you know wherever he's going to make that operation better just from the standpoint of being able to run it as a head coach so there's a lot of things missing unknown says belichak is not fixing this brett says i can't wait until we walk by our old slot machine again stanley says why people think wink martin dale is a better coach because he is um you know one thing martin dale did really well and does really well belichak does this uh they're very different coaches there but and like i said dabel and martin dale together did a really good job in 2022 one thing they did a great job of is um in 2022 it was like every week who are we playing what weaknesses do we have to highlight and accentuate what strengths do we have to take away from this team how do we attack the protections of this team's offensive line what offensive uh match up do we attack offensively sticking to that not playing outside of your quarterback or your team's comfort zones concealing personal weaknesses on your side like those are things that martin dale does very well that dabel has not been able to do as well since martin dale left michael says what role do you see for mike kafka next season could he replace joshana's gm or dabel is that coach he seems very level headed no i think more likely you see mike kafka somewhere else placed like carolina whether it's offensive coordinator otherwise um you know i think you see him definitely somewhere else i think he tried to get out of here this year wasn't successful but i think he will eventually steven says any thought that the gm and coach are okay jumping quarterback two to three knowing they are okay regardless what happens the rest of the way i so hope that's not the case pat uh yeah i i think they need a quarterback desperately i think their only sell right now is hey we're going to get this quarterback right giants fans like myself says astro doc and i have been one since 1970 we just want the truth and that is what's provided here thank you for what you do you got it astro appreciate you pizza's gunslinger are talking about one of those qb's okay aziki says how are we supposed to feel good about the gm and coach when they are benching the 40 million dollar quarterback and bypassing the five million dollar backup to go to the third stringer so the depth chart was a lie this whole time more like they misjudged what their depth charge should be in the first place right well john mower really hands off with resigning dj turning to tommy to sell tickets seems like ownership decision that's why shane isn't holding himself accountable says john um i mean no mower mower was on the phone with daniel in the final hour that they were negotiating the contract with him so john wasn't hands off but i'm just saying disingenuous to say they only resigned it because ownership wanted it joe shane was involved in that he's acknowledged as such essentially implicitly that that was a mistake and that he made huge mistakes with his roster composition and that being one of them so yes ownership was certainly involved in that and they bear accountability as well a two says so daniel jones just disappears now not on the sidelines never to be see again i don't mind bye bye daniel be interesting to see if he practices i doubt that he will but we'll see stanley says hey pat i think drew alar is the perfect quarterback that can run brine dable offense because his skill set is similar to josh allen interesting name brought up there uh definitely going to be i mean it seems like an annual exercise at this point but it's going to be worthwhile talking about all these cubies and where they fit bret says espn and nfl network's headline is ding dong the witch is dead my boy daniel jones cards were stacked against him the moment he was picked let's not do it again and the giants enable that type of coverage and those types of headlines and that type of talent that's what i'm saying stanley says i'm telling you this now the giants will not draft should door sanders or camward they will draft penn state quarterback drew alar heard it here from stanley came access thanks for today pat good luck out there i hope you cover a super bowl giant's team someday that'll be nice i already have too much white hair on the side so good chance i'll be a silver fox by the time that happens parlay says i hear everyone saying waiting until arch we got to let that go i understand what elin manning did but we have to let that narrative go yeah and you know he's got an uncle who's uh you know who's part owner of the denver bronch or you know who's uh royalty and connected strongly to the denver bronchos and paten manning right so who's to say that they're the manning family's going to try to steer steer arch here you know what if bonyx doesn't become the 20 you know the 10 year plan there what was the basis for the feud between dable and wink last season michael says um it was the finger pointing and blame coming from the head coach and the constant uh kind of trying to take credit for the offense and and put down the defense and also game management problems from the head coach that then in public were being cast as um you know execution problems and including like the defense not getting stopped like it kept kind of wearing on martin dale and on the relationship there um you know but it wasn't just martin dale and dable obviously it was kafka and dable it was martin dale and dable it was a lot of guys in dable there are plenty of coaches not just martin dale who left on their own accord without getting fired that guy says if joe and brian are still around next year they'll definitely go after a quarterback to save their jobs but in the long run they'll be fired and will be stuck with another few years of sucking the a million percent they're doing it to save face iconic says do you think with dable success in the first year that gave him a bigger ego that made him feel like he was better than before i think joe shane spoke on the answer to this joe shane said that we were blinded by the success of the first year and it colored some mistakes we made in building the team and how we proceeded i think you could say that for the coach and the general manager is they did not proceed the correct way they did not evaluate themselves properly yes ego and a belief that they were a team that they weren't got in the way i think bill check would be a head coach not a general manager but would have alignment with his gm if he if you brought him in that guy says is dable really as big uh all right let's be nice let's be nice let's not name call um does he have a little man complex um i think there's insecurity from this regime in general yes i would say insecurity and ego yes and also the giants in general have an arrogance and ego to them in these situations here's the thing though what i don't like about how the giants operate in these situations is oh it's it's unprofessional and unfair to to criticize the head coach and the gm and the quarterback but when we tell you it's okay to throw them under the bus go right ahead right no that's not how i work i just tell you what i see parlay says diante banks was solid not great but solid his first year what happened i think it's the pressure of the offense not producing the defense lumping their shoulders feeling like here we go again um and then also it's maturity and just how to handle things when they go poorly you know i i can't see i saw it coming him quitting on the field i didn't see that coming a tone says if we lose out and the losses are not close to john mari clean house yes in my opinion iconic says mari told him you can go from bono to bozo real quick in new york yes he did what a prescient comment from the owner you wish he had a crystal ball for his own team as well he was also brought to be a man cornerback like diante banks is what iconic saying and yes they play more zone which he's not as good at also though i do think it's always important to remember yes diante banks has deserved the criticism he's received and it hasn't been good enough but don't forget it's ridiculous to criticize the secondary for bad tackling when the running backs are coming downhill blasting through the hole with no resistance because the defensive line is not doing the work either it's on everybody and it starts up front either lack of investment or poor play or both the giants aren't getting enough out of their defensive line and that's why they are the worst run defense in the league we're sponsored here by my bookie boom chaga and estate 98 coffee my bookie used a promo code pat's picks getting 100 match on your first deposit of 50 dollars or more all the way up to a thousand dollars plus a ten dollar casino chip i do have the cowboy's covering tonight could be a mistake but um by my by my numbers based on the way the the spreads that i've been doing every wednesday picking every wednesday against the spread every week the texans are three and seven against the spread this season cowboy's only three and six but the texans have just found ways not to cover even when they won these games and so i do not trust them um and that's a pretty big line i think it was seven when i picked it um let's see yeah it was seven and a half texans so i picked the cowboys even though obviously could be really tough tough to do that um but yes pat's picks at the link in my social media profiles um estate 98 coffee takes you 10 seconds to make an iced or hot estate 98 coffee go to estate 98 coffee dot dot com backslash talking ball to get an exclusive offer for 80% off your first order it's perfect for when you want to make a quick cup it's a specialty coffee concentrate it's also great as a mixer for espresso martini and boom chaga mushroom super drink a natural extract with anti-inflammatories immune boosting antioxidants heart healthy compounds beta glue cans and antioxidants that can help you a lower cholesterol reduce inflammation and improve immune and heart health go to boomchaga dot com use the talking ball 25 code or the qr code here on your screen to get that deal like i said please support our sponsors that's the best way to support the podcast also thank you to the super chats and please hit the like button on your way out um let's see iconic says pat you're the greatest you missed out missed out in munich i know iconic i was really upset not to be there very disappointed that i wasn't in germany in munich but got some good family time in and obviously that was an epic disaster of a loss by the organization but never want to miss games don't usually miss them and uh not not expecting to miss any maybe one the rest of the way but uh going to be staying on top of this team and this situation because especially after the games no more important important time to be in there than now last comment i'm going to hit is from devin coughlin at the guts to find a hall of fame decade plus fan favorite in straight hand and kept a locker room accountable lack about accountability here from coaching is frustrating mckinney now banks agree leadership isn't good enough i think they clean house at the end of the season we will see where it goes but of course the news of the day daniel jones benched and likely shut down for the season davito tommy davito tommy cutlets named the starter against the tamper bay buccaneers and then likely of course in thanksgiving against the dallas cowboys in arlington texas thank you so much for being here on talking ball live with pat leander this was an emergency lunchtime episode here on monday november 18th if you missed us um on the live chat on our youtube channel p on nfl please listen to our audio version of the podcast on the believe network on apple spotify wherever you get your podcast i'll be posting that fourth with and we will continue to go live throughout the week and after every giant's game here on the youtube channel p l on nfl uh j rock i believe it was please direct message me on p l on nfl on instagram you won the estate 98 giant trivia giveaway today with that answer of russell shepherd nice work and look forward to seeing you guys here later next thing you can do is go over to ny daily news dot com because i am the new york daily news nfl columnist and giant's beat writer go to new york daily news dot com backslash sports click on my column that is up now about what this decision says about joe shane and the giant that is up on our website now thanks for being here thanks for watching thanks for listening talk to you guys later here on the talking ball with pat leander youtube channel and again all my way out thanks to especially elias jim daniel danny uh let's see who else chris um let's see and p and john for all those super chats really appreciate that take care see you next time on talking ball live with pat leander hey everybody i'm chryver sickle my host of the p ff nfl show here to tell you what you can find on all of our shows throughout the week on muddays we have the great release show where myself and dall washman break down every single game that you just saw in the nfl on tuesday's we have the quarterback breakdown with sefta lina on wednesday's we've got the rookie review which on ledyard and the preview for the upcoming week in the nfl so make sure you are subscribed to the the PFF NFL show wherever you get your podcast. 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New York Daily News NFL columnist Pat Leonard reacts to the Giants' benching of Daniel Jones and their decision to start Tommy DeVito over Drew Lock beginning in Week 12 against the Buccaneers after speaking with Brian Daboll.