Sharon Hinton speaks to Kwame Sarfo-Mensa, author of Learning to Relearn: Supporting Identity in a Culturally Affirming Classroom. He shares how he became an educator, his experience with special education and the schools in the U.S. and Ghana, the teachers that inspired him, and much more!
WBCA Podcasts
Black Teachers Matter
(upbeat music) Welcome to this edition of Black Teachers Matter. Here on WBCA LP 102.9 FM in Boston, we are Boston's community radio station. I am your host and the producer, Sharon Eaton Hinton. And as always, we have an amazing guest here. This black king, he's not a prince anymore. He's a king that wrote this book learning to relearn, supporting identity in a culturally affirming classroom. King Kwame is starful, Mensah. Welcome to Black Teachers Matter. How you doin'? I'm doin' good, Sharon. How you doin'? I am, black never sent my brother. I can't, you know, I picked up this book and I started reading it. And I told you, we can't talk about prices or anything like that, and we won't. But you're not gettin' this book back. I'm just tryin' to tell you. This book was off the chain. And when I saw you last night and you came up to the studio and then you gave me the book and I was like, I'm not gonna be able to read this overnight because I had to keep rereading certain parts of it. The way you laid out this book was amazing. Where you have the QR codes and you can actually go to the support videos at the end of each chapter. You've got, it's a working book. I mean, it's a workbook and a working book and you want people to actually use it as a tool for integrations, integrations teaching. How do I continue to grow and learn? You've got the podcasts and the films and the videos and the websites, the reflection questions. And then the way you have the glossary, you know, the definition of the terms on the sides and stuff, just the way you laid this out was absolutely beautiful. Even the colors, the colors are very Afrocentric. It's black, black, black, black, all day, third day. I'm loving it. I love it. I mean, is this your first book? This is the first book with a major publisher. I did publish two other books by myself, but this is the first real big one. Wow. And so this is, this is, I don't know if it's Routledge, Routledge, Taylor and Francis group as Stenhouse book? Yes. So Stenhouse is under the Routledge family. So I always leave with Stenhouse, because that's my home. OK. So I just want to let you guys know this brother in here. I didn't see a doctor, Kwame Sarfomenza, but holds a bachelor's degree in mathematics and a master's degree in elementary education from Temple University. Woo, woo. For nine years, he served as a middle school math teacher in Philadelphia, PA, and Boston, Massachusetts. God bless you. Currently, he is the founder of Identity Talk Consulting, a global educational consulting firm that specializes in developing K through 12 teachers into identity-affirming educators throughout his 17-year career. You're not that old. Throughout his 17-year career, as a classroom teacher, author and consultant, Kwame has earned numerous accolades, which include being recognized as a top teaching voice by LinkedIn, honored as the 2019 National Member of the Year by Black Educators Rock Incorporated, and being recognized as a top education influencer by Brightbeam Incorporated in 2021 and 2022. If I had an applause track, I would give it to you right now. What are the names of your other two books? And then I want to get into this one, because we're only going to be here for an hour. And we're not taking phone calls, because I really, really, really want to talk to you and we dive deeply into this book that you did learning to relearn supporting identity in a culturally affirming classroom. If you would like to meet King Kwame Sarfomensa tomorrow evening at 5.30. He will be at Nubian Market, and it's on Washington Street. I've got to give you the number to Washington Street before we get off the air. And I just encourage you, if you're at, whether in educator or parent or student, or you're just interested in equity-focused, culturally conscious education for your child, for yourself, as an advocate, as educational advocate, as a person who really wants to unplug from the matrix and open up your mind to what education really can be the possibilities of education. I'm hyping you up, 'cause I love this book. Learning to relearn supporting identity in a culturally affirming classroom. He's having a book signing. So you can, if you like, come down and get the book and actually talk to him and get the book signed, 'cause I'm telling you, I'm gonna speak this into existence. This man, right here, this is gonna come in time when you're gonna have to go through security to get him, 'cause this book is a bad, bad book. I'm just saying. - We manifesting that. - Well, you know, speak what you say. You gotta speak what you want, right? Put the energy out there in the atmosphere, right? - That's how that works. - That's how that works. - What are the names of your first two books? - So the name of my first book is "Shape of the Teach Identity", a lesson that I hope to find a teacher in you, and the second book is called "From In Action to In Action", Kran a new normal for urban educators. - Ooh, so wait a minute, you've been teaching, where did you teach in Boston? - I taught at the Joseph Lee School in Dorchester. - Oh, Talbot Avenue. - Talbot Avenue. - You're using the real hood, used in there. - Well, you already know. Matter of fact, my family home. So I still have my house in Dorchester, right off the Mada Pan Dorchester line, like right there at Moreland Street, just off of there. So still on the home here. So Boston is home-based, yeah. - But you're mentality. I'm talking about my people's now. I might get mad, too bad. Scratch your butt and get glad. - You, so let me read something, and I didn't want to mess up your book, just in case I had to give it back. 'Cause I'm one that marks up books and dog years, books and stuff like that, but. - You know what, that's yours. - Thank you. - That's yours. - You knew you wasn't getting back anyway, right there. - I already sensed that, so I threw the white flag. - So there's a, you know, Paula Freer. And a lot of people won't know who he is, but he wrote this groundbreaking book, The Pedagogy of the Oppressed. Now, I'm getting my doctorate in education, so I know about him, and a lot of other theoretists then. But he's one that's one of my favorites. Anyway, let me read you guys a quote. "Education either functions as an instrument which is used "to facilitate integration of the younger generation "into the logic of the present system "and bring about conformity, "or it becomes the practice of freedom, "the means by which men and women deal critically "and creatively with reality "and discover how to participate "in the transformation of their world." That was year 2000, which is way before the pandemic, which is another whole thing, which I don't know we'll get into in terms of remote learning. What made you become an educator? - Wow. - I read the introduction piece, so I kind of know between your mom and your father and the whole thing, but I want you to tell our viewers and our listeners. - So since you know the background of that, I'll just tell the folks who are listening, who aren't familiar with the story. I didn't aspire to become an educator. Education was one of those things that fell on my lap as I got older and was in college figuring out life. If I could go back to what led me into this profession that I love so dearly, it goes back to my mom who I talk about in the book extensively. She laid the blueprint for what it means to be an educator. She had never taught in the classroom ever, but she always was somebody who was in service of others. That was her. She used to teach dance classes in our home. We were growing up in Bloomfield, Connecticut. She would also volunteer at different programs. And these were things that I saw as a kid, and even as I grew up, I saw those constant examples of what it meant to be in service of others. And that's the one thing that translated into my adult life, more specifically, professionally as an educator. I wanted to be in a place where I could do that for students who grew up like I did. I was neurodiverse, had an IEP for the first four or five years of my schooling. - When you should have had an IEP because you actually had a better education than Ghana before you got here. - They ought to be reading, you were leaving reading. I love that. - I told you I was going to read this book. I told you I was going to read this book. I'm not one of those people that's just there and goes, "So how long have you been in the business?" No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I read that and Ghana. So I'm at Jubilee Christian Church, and one of my daughter's best friends is a beautiful Ghanaian girl. And so when you talk about July's rights, I was like, "Uh-oh, Ghanaians think they have the best July rights, "the Algerians think they have the best." The Sierra Leoneians think they have the best, but Ghanaians do really kind of have the best July rights. But I saw how as a teacher, 'cause I've been teaching for over 45 years, and the reports is not like you're just saying that this is what's happening to black boys and dark and black boys in particular being tracked into special education and disproportionate numbers with no evidence to back it up because they just want to be able to control and track you in places without even testing and evaluating you. The assumption is you don't know. And then you also talked about the speech, how your mother was teaching you how to speak a certain way, and then, okay, I'm getting ahead of myself because we want to talk about the whole code switching and whiteness thing. And so go ahead with the story about your mom and how she really geared you towards the gifts that she saw on you, right? - Yeah, she always saw those positive traits of me and that's what her focus was on. Yes, did I have some struggles in school? I did, but I was always a pretty smart kid. I just needed a little bit of support and she was able to do that through interventions, lash cards, she used to make me have to read books to my little sister, and at that time, I was getting paid a dollar for every book I read, so there was some ROI involved. But-- - For those of you who don't know, return an investment. - Return of investment. So as a result of that, my confidence was boosted. And what's amazing is whenever she would come for the IP meetings, my teachers would be the ones asking, "Hey, Mrs. Mensa, what are you doing at home with Kwame that's causing him to have so much growth in such a rapid pace?" This is what teachers were asking her. And you and I know that's not how it always goes down. - Right. - So to know that my mom had that kind of respect from my teachers and my teachers were humble enough to listen to my mom and take heed to some of the tips and interventions she was doing at home, it was a win-win situation for me. And that's what ultimately led me to be successful, to make honor roll, and to have a positive relationship with school. - And also you mentioned that you had some key teachers that also saw you too. See, I told you I read this book. - Yes, a lot of key teachers. But the one who I do talk about in the book, her name is Mrs. Brenda Martin. She was my teacher for most of those elementary school years. And she was the one who saw me for who I was. She looked past the difficulties that I had in class and saw the potential. And that's what she always leveraged. She always was focused on that. What can I do to maximize what this young man is capable of doing? That was always her focus, that was always her priority. And she played a huge role in making me feel like I was a star, making me feel like, hey, you should be in the general education setting with all these other students, 'cause you are that smart. - And you were there for several years in the fact that that was not recognized, which just assumed that you had to stay there and that the education in Ghana was inferior. So what the school is offering, talk about that. - So I was in Ghana during my seventh, eighth and ninth grade years. So this is the mid '90s. I was there with my father and my younger sister, tennis school in Ghana. So for anyone that's never attended school in Sub-Saharan Africa, it is very intense. It's not like here where you have taxpayer money that is paying for your child's education and lunch and everything else. They treat you like you're in college. When you're in Ghana, you have to buy your own books, you have to pay tuition. If you don't pay tuition, it doesn't matter how smart you are. They will make sure that you don't return to school. Like it is no joke. And then also I was in a class with 50 students and only one teacher. And that was the norm in the mid '90s. And all the teachers were operating like professors. They just lectured you the whole time. You didn't have project-based learning. You didn't have any kind of group work. Everything was individualized. So when you are in that setting, you're truly by yourself. You're fending for your own self, trying to figure out how you're going to pass this exam. And even with the way the scale was, only 40% of your classwork throughout that term was that was 40%. The remaining 60% was for the one summative exam. So think of it like this. So wearing Massachusetts, kids take MCAS near the end of the year, every year, right? Imagine the MCAS representing 60% of your child's overall grade for the school year. And this not even considered the fact that your child may have an IP or a 504 plan. And they may not be getting those accommodations because we know that with the MCAS, it's a normed assessment. Everybody takes the same assessment. It's not a case where there is modifications to it. Because if that was the case, the data would then not be as reliable. So you have to keep it on the same playing field, even though that goes against differentiation and what it means to support students who come with diverse needs. - Keep going. - So there's a whole lot there, but just to get back to the main point, I had my most challenging three years of K-12 in Ghana. I can't think of any time in my schooling. I'm gonna say K-16 where I had to work harder than how I did in Ghana. - Wow. - That's how rigorous it was. And it really played a huge role in preparing me for college, but also for my future career, which I do now. - Now, I know when I looked at your book and I was reading from the chapter that talked about the trauma. And it was young, black and misunderstood. And when you talked about the heart to teach, found and lost, you said so much of who I am as a teacher and a father is a direct response to the trauma I've experienced throughout my life in school and at home. Throughout my teaching career, I've given so much of my energy to my students, especially my black ones. Because many of them came to school with their own share of trauma and were yearning to connect with someone who could heal and cultivate the spirits. I see so much of myself in them because as a child, I needed someone to assure that I was smart and had the ability to make a difference in someone's life. And then you go on in other chapters and talk about the importance of being a black teacher and someone that teachers, a teacher that students could connect with and identify with and how you have to build these connections and this trust in your students. As a black male teacher, and last time I looked at statistics, I mean, I think in the nation's schools, there's only 7% of the teachers that are black and there's only like 3%, or 2 1/2% that are black male teachers. Talk about your experience, especially being a dark-skinned male that has, 'cause you talked about how you actually came under fire for the way that you look like you have locks and everything. And I know as black women, we're always taught to conform. And when I talk to some of my black male teachers, as rare as that is, they tell me about how they have to sometimes think about taking the base out of their voice so they don't seem threatening. And you talked about that in your book, about how not code switching necessarily, but being able to navigate those white spaces, to be able to stay in those spaces so that you can be an effective teacher. Talk about that whole trauma that you talked about being misunderstood as a student, and then also navigating those spaces as an educator and a black educator. - So in terms of the trauma, a life it just stems from my relationship with my father. So growing up, my father was somebody who was very tough on myself and my siblings. He wasn't the affectionate type who you can go to to talk about your deepest feelings or issues that you were having because he talked more with his belt than he did with his mouth. So that was the relationship that I had with my dad to the point where whenever issues did arise, I would go to my older brother to talk to him. He served as more of a father figure than my dad did. Because he was someone who I look up to, and even to his dad still look up to him. He's five years older than me. And every stage in life, when he had his first child, I saw how he was as a father. When he got married, I saw how he was as a husband. When he bought his first home, I saw how he was as a landlord and a homeowner. So he always provided a blueprint for me, for adulthood, and that's what guided me. Now, in the case of my dad, I wasn't able to have that relationship with him. We didn't have that relationship where we could go to a bar and drink a beer and just talk. Or he would teach me how to drive or fix a car, those bonding activities that you typically do with your dad. You didn't have those moments with them. Those were lost years. - Did you ever figure out why? Did you ever find out why? I'm asking you this for kind of a selfish reason. I'll tell you later. But I mean, did you ever figure out why there was that distance? Was it culturally or just the way he was raised or? - So, and this is my first time sharing this publicly, but I actually have been doing some therapy with my wife. And my wife has a good friend, childhood friend, whose name is Blue Taloozma, and she is a phenomenal emotional intelligence coach. She also does readings. So one day I did a reading with Blue and she in a nutshell told me that I needed to bring closure to the issues I have with my dad. I needed to talk with them, because the spirits that were talking to her, so spirits being ancestors on my dad's side are saying, we're sorry, like we're sorry. It's not your fault. And you have an opportunity to shut down this toxic cycle. So, my friend goes ahead and tells me, hey, you need to talk to your dad, because if you don't address this trauma, you can lose your family, you could lose your marriage and all the things that you cherish. - Like generational curses. - Yeah. So, my whole family ends up going to Ghana. And here's a funny thing. My wife, she worked with the Peace Corps. She had a conference she had to go to in a crowd. So I said, hmm, this is the opportunity that I need to take advantage of to bring closure. So, the whole family went. I was able to see my dad who lives in Ghana and has been there for the past 30 plus years. And we were able to have a heart to heart. And for the first time, I was able to share all the things that I had been experiencing, all the things that I wanted to say to him, I was able to say to him that one afternoon, where we sat together. And I just poured my heart out. I just told him, hey, this house feeling. Whenever you insulted me or made me feel dumb, this is how it made me feel. - 'Cause he was calling you stupid. - That's right. These were things that I still remember. Not only did they serve as fuel, but it also was trauma. 'Cause it got to a point where I always felt like I had to prove everybody wrong. Even my wife had times when it doesn't have to be like that. So that defensiveness and that need to always have to prove something stems from that. Because when someone's telling you that you're not smart, you're not this, now it's like, all right, now I gotta prove that to you. And I was doing that to a fault. So that was something that I had to address. And the only way that I could do that was by simply forgiving him and saying, hey, like you probably were going through some things when you were growing up. Because I know that my grandfather, his dad, he had his share of difficulties, which I would learn from other family members. And that provided some context for me. Now there's a excuse of the trauma that was imposed on me as a child, definitely not. But it does provide context. And the one thing that I learned about emotional intelligence through my classes was just the fact that you have to contextualize the behaviors of people who are imposing the trauma. You have to understand where the source of that is. Usually in those situations, when they are doing that to you, they're either triggered or they are expressing their own trauma. Right, you touched on a sensitive point. Yeah. So that's what it was for me. That was a turning point. After I had that conversation, I felt a huge weight lifted off my shoulders. Like I could move forward. I wasn't angry anymore. So how did that play into you as a teacher and a black male teacher when you're dealing with some of your male students? I was able to channel that because a lot of my black boys and even black girls too, they come from homes that are either broken. They come from homes where they have at least one family member who's gone through the criminal justice system or is currently incarcerated. I've had students who are homeless. I've had students who come into school with pagers around their ankle, ankle bracelets 'cause they have parole officers that are tracking them down. Like these are the kids who I taught, especially in Boston. Kids who are coming in high. Self-medicating. Self-medicating. Like this is what it was. This is the real. You know, the reason why I'm asking you this is because my doctoral dissertation is on the effects of the absence or presence of a black father and the academic achievement of the childhood children. Yes. And so last night when I met you for the first time, I said, you and I gotta talk. Now that I've read a lot of the book, I haven't read all of it and I know we gotta talk because I think you'll be in one of my acknowledgments when I do my doctoral dissertation. I'd like to think, you know, at this point, you'll be Dr. Kwame. I appreciate that. I'm speaking that into existence now. I want to, for those people who just tuned in, you're listening to WBCA, LP102.9 FM in Boston, where Boston's community radio station. And this is another episode of Black Teachers Matter. My guest is, I must not call him Dr. Dr. Kwame, Sarpa Menza, King Kwame, and has written this amazing book, Learning to Relear and Supporting Identity in a Culturally Affirming Classroom. Some of you may not have heard that term before. You may have heard Critical Race Theory. I'm gonna hold on that piece 'cause he does a whole piece about that, but I just want to go through this book in terms of just the chapter title so you get an idea of why you'll want to meet him tomorrow. At the Nubian Market on Washington Street in Roxbury. So the contents, the overview, the sections. There's overview of identities. Chapter one, examining and disrupting the culture of whiteness in schools. Chapter two, indigenous, native perspectives, tackling settler colonialism in schools. Chapter three, black perspectives, combating anti-blackness in schools. Chapter four, let me change the page yet. Asian-American Pacific Islander, perspective debunking the model, minority myth, and fighting anti-AAPI racism in schools. That's Asian-American Pacific Islander. Chapter five, Latinx perspectives, combating lingual racism, anti-immigrant sentiment, and curricular erasure in schools. And then section two is what it means to teach with a critical lens. And that starts with chapter six, start the work with you. Chapter seven, affirming the identities of your students. Chapter eight, combat dominant narratives through counter storytelling. Chapter nine, co-create a compassionate and collaborative classroom culture and then conclusion moving forward references and index. I had to give people the breadth of this book. First off, you did this in an amazing format. It's 318 pages. But I could sit down and just read right through this. Like a book book and then go back because you have worksheets, you have QR codes that you can get a video reference from. You've got books and publications, films and videos, pop cats, podcasts and websites. How long did it take you to write this book? - It took three years from start to finish. - Wow. - Three years. - Wow. - Yeah. - That's amazing. Not surprising because I'm telling you this book, it's a workbook. It really is a workbook for teachers, for educators. And was that your intent? I mean, I see it's geared towards a certain audience, but I think the audience is not just teachers, not just educators, correct? - Correct. Primarily, yes, we're focused on K-12 educators, but guess what? Anybody who works with children. So that could be social workers, that could be school counselors. That could be the brother or the sister that works at the rec center. It could be your parent. It could be an any community member, anybody that has direct contact with students or is involved in some form of youth development can benefit from this book, even the coaches, right? But of course, the primary audience is K-12 educators because we are talking about schools. As far as the process of putting this book together, it was very much a collaborative process. As you can imagine, we are writing about so many different identities, many of which I'm not even a part of. I needed those first person narratives. I needed those stories to accompany the information that I was sharing. And I believe that's the most powerful part about the book is the fact that there were about 30 different educators and community members who contributed their stories and trusted me to share them in the most respectful and honorable way. Many of whom are strangers, never met me before, but once I told them about the vision of this book, they said, "Bet, let me tell you about my story." And here we are talking about this book and also sharing the stories of all these phenomenal educators who are gonna forever be part of that fabric. - Yes, and some of the educators are white. And so, we talk about in your piece, your chapter examining and disrupting the culture of whiteness in schools. - Yes. - I have to take a side now and I was taking a side when I was reading it, conflating white allyship with wokeness. A quote from you, July 7th, 2021, "The pageantry associated with performative allyship "is nothing more than a ploy for too many folks "to camouflage their racist ways. "Not all anti-racist actions need to be celebrated publicly. "The deep anti-racist work happens behind closed doors "when there's no audience around." Now, I gotta talk about this in the age of the impending orange man, the next four years, right? I don't even wanna give his name any kind of-- - No, we don't need to, you said more than enough. - Yeah, man. I mean, we talk about that because you've got allies and that's a piece, it's page 34 and 35, allies and co-conspirators. And the difference between being an ally versus a co-conspirator. Can you briefly talk about what that means? Because they're just, you know, this is a show that says black teachers matter. - That's right. - But I do have like next teachers, Asian teachers, gay teachers, straight teachers, white teachers. When you're an educator, you're an educator. And so there are white teachers of mine who are co-conspirators. And there's a difference between an ally and co-conspirator. Black teachers matter was formed. This organization, this podcast was named after the 501(c) the organization I formed as a result of me being a black teacher and fighting a structure, I won, by the way, and fighting a system that is getting paid very well to brainwash our kids, to think that white is right. I remember growing up, you know, if you're white, you're right. If you're brown, stick around, you're black. Step back, if you're red, you're dead. You know, if you're yellow, you're mellow. I mean, that was some of the stuff that people would jump rope to. I remember that because there's a culture that, not a culture, but a survival technique that says, you know, how can we not internalize it, but recognize it, but make it a game? Because it's painful when you're dealing with these stereotypes. And later on, you talk about changing the narratives and stuff. And so, you know, the teacher that I have is talking about freedom fighters. And so there's Huey P. Newton and stuff like that. And so I walk around with that in places where they expect you to have, you know, your hair is all straight and makeup and all this other craziness. Because I think we have to counter that at every single point. Talk about the difference between an ally and a coca-spirited, 'cause it's gonna take all of us. Pookie and Em and everybody to do this. - That's right. So in this fight for liberation, everybody has to play a role. Just like if you look at the basketball team, there's five positions. Everybody plays a role in ensuring that the team is in the best position to win. It's the same with this fight. So we're gonna need some people who are gonna be in the front lines. We're gonna need some people who are gonna be in the back doing behind the scenes work. We're gonna need some writers. We're gonna need some orators. We're gonna need some people who are good with social media or graphic design. Everybody has to play a role. So now, what's the main difference between an ally and a coca-spiriteder? So just to make it simple and plain, allies are people who, they're gonna be as supporters. They believe everything that you're saying. They believe that racism is wrong. They believe that the injustices that are happening within schools and in society are wrong. And they may be the ones that might pick up a book and read about it and talk about it with other friends so they can build their capacity. Now, the coca-spiriteder will do the same thing as the ally, but the coca-spirited will go an extra mile. They'll pick it with you. They'll go deeper. You know, they will sign a petition. They'll go to the town hall meeting and use their privilege to make their voices heard on behalf of you. They'll also make sure that they play a role in mobilizing others to make sure that they are playing their role in this fight for liberation. So the coca-spiriteder is the one that wants to smoke, just like you do. - The one who speaks up in the room is where you can be in. - That's right. And then the allies, the one that has your back but aren't willing to risk as much as a coca-spiriteder. - And let's be clear, these allies and coca-spiriteders aren't always white. - That's right. They could look like me. - Wow. - They could look like other black and brown folks. So, and that's how whiteness works. Whiteness is not something that's just specific to white people. See, it's something that even as black folks, we internalize, and the reason why is because when we are born in this society, the default is whiteness. The morals, the standards of living are informed by this culture of whiteness. When you think about the dominant characteristics of white dominant culture, it's basically, oh, can you speak English? Are you a Christian? Are you cisgender heterosexual? Basically, are you a straight person? - What are your pronouns? Can be flipped around too. - Exactly. Are you a male? - He, she, her, it, them. - All that. So, these are just some of the things that we have to look at. So, when we think about whiteness, we all internalized it. I definitely internalized a lot of whiteness. I went to a predominantly white school. Although, my orientation is very much pan-African. As a kid, you do pick up certain elements of whiteness just as a result of being in that space. - Well, trying to survive in that space, really. - And trying to survive as well. When you're one of the few black kids in high school, you already stand out. So, you feel like, okay, I need to adhere to the rules of engagement in this space in order to let people know that I belong in this space as opposed to coming in as my full self. - Well, wait a minute, let's back up for a second. 'Cause one of the things that you also said is that you knew you didn't belong in that space and that's why you stepped away. Even though you've been teaching for a while, I told you I read your book. Even though you've been teaching for a while, in order for you to survive in your fullness, being healthy, you had to step away and that's why you formed your own organization. You're doing the consultancy. Talk about that transition. Actually, you had the realization and then the transition. - Well, I have to give my wife a lot of credit because she had an awesome opportunity with Peace Corps. And this is back in 2019. I was in my fifth and final year at Boston Public Schools and I was getting burned out. I felt myself getting more contentious, getting more irritated, butting heads with my principal. So there was a whole lot because it was a buildup over the past five years. So you have to think, the first three years I'm in the district, I'm not saying anything because I'm still in probationary status. So I'm aware, like you were a black teacher, you speak too much, you might not make it through those first three years. So I observed what was going on. And then once I became permanent, the last two years I started to speak up a little bit more. And the more I spoke up, the more I pointed things out, the more I was in the dog house. - Even in a predominantly black school, in a predominantly black neighborhood. - Exactly. So majority of the kids are black and Latinx at the school that I was teaching at. And the faculty was majority white, but it was still multicultural as well. So that was the type of school where I worked all those years. But the thing was, I needed to get away from that space because it wasn't fun anymore, teaching this wasn't fun. I wasn't enjoying myself, I was tired, I was always coming home, complaining to my wife about what this person did, what this principal said, what this student did, it just wasn't fun. I was totally burned out. - And five years. - Five years. And I'll tell you this, if my wife hadn't gone to opportunity with Peace Corps, I was surely going to transfer to another school. But then again, doesn't mean that the grass is gonna be greener there? No, there was no way in me knowing that unless I get into that space. So this was a blessing in the skies. - Wow, if you just tuned in, you're listening to WBCA LP 102.9 FM in Boston, we're Boston's Community Radio Station. This is Black Teacher's Matter, and I am here with King Dr. Kwame Sarfo Mensa. His book, Learning to Re-learn, supporting identity in a culturally affirming classroom, there is no way we can get to all of this book. He is having a book signing tomorrow evening. And tomorrow would be Wednesday, November 20th, at the Nubian Market in Roxbury on Washington Street. And I swear I will give you the number in Washington Street, but you know what, Boston is not that big. No matter where you are in your educational journey, if you just want to learn how you should learn, because part of the book, a big half of the book is how you can actually become a better student through a critical lens. If you're a teacher, using a critical lens, I just took a class at Northeast University that was talking about designing racial spaces, designing and understanding racial spaces, racialized spaces. And so part of that was a field trip, the Museum of Fine Arts. And I will never look at a museum the same way ever again. It basically, you become very analytical and very discerning about what you allow your eyes to take in, the way you allow your eyes to take it in. So let me give you an example. When you go into a museum, there's different kinds, there's five different museums, types of museums, I'm not gonna get into all that, but you have to look at how it's lit, how many, how things are positioned on the walls, whether they're even on a wall or they're in a pedestal, are they in a dark corner, what is being highlighted? So if you go into a room and there's a huge painting and it's the only one in the wall, it is implying that this is important. How many spaces do you go in where people who are not white receive that much attention? Now I'll say that when we were in the Museum of Fine Arts, the part that had, I felt very heavy when I went in there in the Egyptian section because these are dead bodies, you're literally walking through a tomb. If you don't understand, you're looking at dead bodies that are supposed to be sacred, but also in the African section, it was very small, it was very crowded, there were artifacts that were actually supposed to be art artifacts that were positioned as that they were weapons of war, and that was the only room in there that had music, and they positioned it in a way that you walk through there, you didn't even really spend any time in there. When you understand even how they are labeled, whether or not they got, how they even acquired the art, if they got it through conflict, if they got it because someone donated, because someone bought it, I will never look at a library the same, I will never look at a museum the same, and it's not just those racialized spaces, you look at curriculum, you look at books, you look at, you look at, in the school, who's on the bulletin board? Now the school that I worked in, eighth grade social studies, ELA teacher, charter school, they had a black board, a bulletin board, what is a great literary writer look like, or what is a great literary writer, that's what it was, there were mostly white men on there, the only black woman was dead, right, and she was old and she was dead, and they had only a couple of women, and so when we had, they always for the teachers, they have this professional development, these workshops, how can we make the school better? And I know what it feels like to be in one of these things and you just wanna keep your job, and they want you to participate in this, and it's like one, two, three, and everybody looks at the black room in the room, well how can we do it better, and you know you have this intense pressure to go along to get along, even though they're asking you for your opinion. I was in the class with a so-called master teacher, even the term, and you talked about the vocabulary, we wanna talk about that for a minute, we've got like 15 minutes left, I told you this was gonna take it. - Wow, that's fast. - Right, right, it's gonna go fast, you talk about definitions and how you, because part of your book is definitions, and what that means actually defines certain things, and how you expect these definitions to change, because they have to change, they have to adapt at different times, different cultures, different contexts. - That's right. - The beginning we talked about context, right? - Yes. - I'm in this class with all black and brown, young people in the eighth grade, and this white teacher talking about the golden age, says that this group of students, how did American get its wealth and don't say slavery, 'cause that's the wrong answer. I'm the only black teacher in the room, and all the kids turn around and look at me, and I put a book in front of my face, because that was a highly monitored, behaviorally modified, monitored for the teachers, and for the students, and so I'm sitting there, and they turn around, and I put the book in front of my face, I was like, "Wow, I'm about to lose my job today." (laughs) I could feel it coming, right? - Sorry. - So how did you, at what point, what was the straw that broke the camel's back? That made you say, "No, I gotta get out of here." I mean, your wife was in Peace Corps, and so she gave you an out, but there had to be a moment where you really said, "Yeah, this is it, what was it?" - Oh, wow, okay, I'm really gonna tell the story. All right, let's do it. So it's my final year at this school, and I had this student in my class who was a really great math student, but noticed that she had been slipping in her performance. So her mom, so just to give some context, this student comes from a family where I've actually taught her older brother. So I've known the mom for four out of five years I was at this school, so I got a pretty good relationship with her. So one day, this student's mom reaches out to me, and she's asking me if I can put in a character statement for her because she was in the middle of a custody battle for one of her children, right? And I said, "Sure," 'cause I know her really well. Why not? So I gave a character statement, and I send it to her attorney. That was around December of that school year. Fast forward to May, probably May of that same school year. I could call down to the office because I don't know if it's the attorney, but somebody dropped a summons for me to come to court to talk about this case. And I'm like, "What? What is going on?" So of course, the principal's like, "Hey, what's going on?" And I explained what happened. And I was surprised by my principal's reaction because I'm thinking, "Well, I wrote the statement to support this parent whose child is in my class and this child is struggling." And a major part of that reason why she struggles because of what's happening in the courtroom. So I felt like I had to do my job as a teacher to support that child, right? So I thought I was doing the right thing, but it turns out that I end up getting in trouble for doing that, for submitting the statement. And so now I'm in a position where I have to go to court. I don't want to go to court. So I'm telling my principal, "Hey, I don't want to go to court. That's really not my business." But the attorney was so insistent on me coming. Like he kept calling the school saying, "He's got to show up to court or else he'll be in contempt." Blah, blah, blah. So now it's like I'm getting thrown to come to court. So now, so reluctantly the principal says, "Hey, you should just go to court." I said, "Okay, I'll go. I'll take a half day and head to the courthouse." Now, I'd already exhausted my personal and my sick days. So you know what this means. If I take any time off from this point on, I don't get paid. So that's where I was. - Okay, so hold on an hour. 'Cause we got like three minutes left. Can you believe it? Three minutes left, right? So I'm gonna have to get you coming back here. Even if it's on Zoom. One quick comment about critical race theory when we're talking about definitions and how you can weaponize terms that people don't even really understand what it is. What is critical race theory in about 60 seconds? - Okay, critical race theories is basically a scholarly framework that helps us understand why racism and other forms of discrimination exist in our society. - So when this is being, 'cause now we have, you know, a person who's talking about dismantling the whole of the Department of Education and there are at least 30 states that have outlawed teaching black history, African-American history, critical race theory, anything that resembles that and threatening to withhold federal funding that school does that. What should people do? - So this is what I've been telling people. So teachers are in a tough bind right now. So this is a situation where we need for our stakeholders to step up and help out. So when I say stakeholders, I'm talking about parents. I'm talking about community members because here's the thing. They can say whatever they want to say, 'cause they're not the ones who are teaching in the classrooms. So we need to leverage our parents and community members and empower them to recognize their power as stakeholders because a lot of parents, they don't realize how much power they have. When a parent comes to a town hall meeting or a school board meeting, that is huge. And unfortunately, we don't always see that because of the fact that a lot of parents, at least I worked with in the past, they're working multiple jobs. They're not always able to come to these meetings at the times they're scheduled because they're probably doing a second or third shift to make ends meet for their families. - So hold on. - Yeah. - Speaking of a second or a third shift, this is it. (laughs) - Love that. Love that. - And in order to get another shift, they're gonna have to come see you. I don't know if I should put King Kwame or Dr. King Kwame, Sarfomenza. His book, Learning to Relear and Supposing, Supporting Identity in a Culturally Affirming Classroom. He will have a book signing at Nubian Market. It's 25, you know what, I just had it up here too. 25, 65, hold up, hold up. We gonna do this. - I'm all. - Mm-mm. - 25, 65, Washington Street in Roxbury in Boston. If you just tuned in, well, it's too late. You're gonna have to tune in for another episode of Black Lives Matter. You're listening to WBCALP102.9 FM in Boston. We are Boston's community radio station. Take care of yourself and stay tuned to another episode. God bless you, goodbye. [BLANK_AUDIO]