The Duran Podcast
The Failure of the Media - Jimmy Dore, Alexander Mercouris & Glenn Diesen
Hi everyone, my name is Glenn Diesen and today I'm joined by Alexander Mercuris as well as Jimmy Dorr, the comedian and the host of the very popular Jimmy Dorr show. Welcome. My pleasure, thanks for having me. I'm not just a comedian but one of the most insightful and brilliant commentators around and somebody who can see the absurdity behind all of these situations that we have to face today, just saying. Well, you know, the Greek comedy in ancient Greece, it was renowned for its political significance as well. So the basic idea being that it's imperative to be able to satirize and mock our own leaders and I think comedians can often say what the rest of us will have to pay a very heavy social cost for saying. Well, as a Greek, of course, I'm a fan of Aristophanes so I know all about that. Yeah, but also I guess one of the your favorite targets over the years, Jimmy has been the news media. You've covered very closely, Russia gate, also the way the elections have been covered but also the news coverage, of course, of course. I guess it's a very open-ended question but do you see big changes with the media over the past few years or I guess why has it become so awful in your opinion? I think it's just been continuing to be awful and we've just been noticing it more and more because of social media and that's why they need to control social media because they can't, because the establishment needs to control the narrative and if they can't control the narrative, then they need to start disappearing people and that that's a lot harder not that they don't do it but they're doing it right out in the open with Julian Assange, you know, Edward Snowden. I'm constantly surprised that the media is as horrible as it is. It's just we just had this young guy on Jackson Hinkle yesterday on my show because the New York Times that it hit Peace on him, he's become kind of a sensation. He's always been very popular but they keep kicking him off social media platforms. They kicked him off YouTube for telling the truth about Ukraine and Russia and he's been kicked off Facebook and everywhere and now he's just the only thing he has left is Twitter and he's really taken up the cause of Gaza and his count had has blown up over two and a half millions Twitter followers and so the New York Times did it, try to do a hit Peace on him because I think New York Times is run by Zionists and so but what happens that what Israel has done in Gaza has been so beyond the pale that even the New York Times has come around to Jackson Hinkle's point of view so they were supposed to do a smear Peace on him but everything that they were writing about him not to be they agree with now, right? I mean I was watching MSNBC the other day and I saw Condoleezza Rice advisors calling for sanctions against Israel like that's how crazy it's gotten. So I mean I also did see an interview with Cornell West on CNN just from the other day and they kept wanting him to condemn Hamas but you do condemn Hamas, right? And that's still their refrain but what's interesting to me is that now the media, the Wall Street Journal and a couple other places have said that Israel has lost this war and that Hamas has won this war and meaning that yeah they had the Israel has slaughtered 30, 40, 50,000 Palestinians but they've lost and because they lost the propaganda war with the world and now the world has turned against them and now there actually is a movement for a real Palestinian state and that's the exact opposite of what they wanted and so it's interesting to see the you know that was kind of a shocker to me actually. I just thought that Israel was going to get its way and it was going to keep going and I didn't expect anybody to actually turn on them and just you know with the Iran retaliation how successful it was. I was so now the only wild card that you know makes me worry is Benjamin Netanyahu and the Zionists and they've been shown to be as crazy as crazy can be. They're the exact thing they accuse all their enemies of being, right? They're the terrorists, they're the maniacs, they're the people willing to start World War 3 and the you know if the United States was clear that not only will not help you in an offensive war with Iran but we're not going to help you in a defensive war with Iran then that would be the end of it but they have promised to support Israel in a defensive war against Iran which I guess will maybe embolden Netanyahu and the crazy Zionists to keep doing what they're doing and I guess all you have to do is sit back and fingers cross but to your first what I mean to answer your question the media has always been horrible will always be horrible because it's owned by in America we used to have 50 giant media companies when I was young and in college and then in 1996 Bill Clinton came along and he consolidated the media from 50 giant media companies to only six and they're all hand owned by a handful of billionaires and so that's why journalism sucks so bad now because journalism journalists used to come from blue collar backgrounds like myself but now they come from elite universities and they're class loyal and they are handpicked by these billionaires and they all know like Chomsky taught us that they do their internal sensory and they wouldn't have the jobs if they thought like we do they wouldn't have those jobs so they have those jobs because they think along the lines of their class and of the billionaire class and they're there to do the bidding of them wittingly or unwittingly and so that's why journalists they're not journalists anymore they're not willing to make enemies of the powerful they're to serve the powerful and that's why we have the world we have right now um Jimmy I completely agree with your your points I would just add to it that the other thing that I found with the media I don't know whether you've noticed it is that it's become unbearably pompous as well certainly in Britain in ways that um once upon a time when it was a blue collar operation which it also was in Britain um it didn't used to be there was always a kind of um irreverent quality even when it was being very serious now it's just become very very pompous I think extremely boring and what you said about you know it used to be a blue collar as we would say in England working class operations that was true of the media in Britain as well and it's completely changed it just as in the United States it's become centralized in strange ways all the newspapers come up with the same editorials in Britain which are identical they always look like being written by the same person they say exactly the same things on any particular topic it's it's become very dull and of course it's also losing circulation and I think traction particularly amongst young people in Britain um and I wonder whether that's also the case in the United States I still think that in the United States because maybe you have a lingering remnant of the media of the old days um you still have more debate than we are allowed here so a straightforward admission that Israel is losing the war in Gaza um that doesn't happen to the same extent at least in Britain and losing the war in Gaza in what sense in a political sense in a military sense or in a moral sense uh you know what's happened in Gaza terrible that Israel's lost not terrible that 30,000 people have died and died in the most horrible way um because that was my immediate feeling when I read that article in the Wall Street Journal so it is this uh similar in the United States where the media is becoming is unpopular people don't watch it in fact just like a month or two ago there was a series of layoffs uh of people working in the corporate media got let go uh because the viewership is down no one cares and um I remember this there's this woman Taylor Lorenz I don't know if you're familiar with her but she's a she's a scourge in the United States and um she's a 40 a 40-year-old 12-year-old and um she uh she did a TikTok video that went viral where she was lamenting the layoffs of all her friends in corporate media and she writes for the Washington Post now and uh she said I don't think people realize what uh what the world will look like without these journalists and I said I think I know what it's going to look like about these journalists and I'm going to wake up every morning and an animated bluebird is going to land on my shoulder and we're all going to break out into song uh because the you're not they're not even journalists right they're they're not necessary they're stenographers to power and they're not uh they think they're essential somehow like they're a honeybee you're not uh you're you're you're the world's going on along just fine without you and uh the less of you the better um so I mean and that's why there's such a um you know the New York Times and their establishment media writes all these um hit pieces and all these uh scaremongering peep peep pieces about people like us doing uh independent news on social media on youtube and twitter facebook and how we are radicalizing people and how we're spreading misinformation and um even though the courts we all know the biggest spreaders of this information is the government second is the core corporate media and a distant third are randos on social media and um so they're they keep trying to scare advertisers away from social media that's the game because we're competitors with them right and um you know my show gets more viewers than the average CNN show and um that's what all the that's even with the suppressive algorithms and uh all the negative press that they've given me uh to try to discredit me so yeah I would say here it's the same um people are term and that's why they're banning tiktok in the United States so I saw a statistic that um a hundred million people watch tiktok for at least 20 minutes a day in the United States which that's a third of the country so um that's why they're wanting to get away from get rid of it because they can't control that narrative and people are getting their news through places like tiktok and instagram facebook youtube not so much facebook because facebook is they are really they have a i've been uh demonetized suppressed and you know a lot of my friends who i call shit lives um uh think that i'm some kind of crazy conspiracy theorist because every time i put a video up on facebook it gets flagged as misinformation and so they think i'm out there doing the bidding of the devil instead of they don't realize that uh facebook is controlled by a handful of billionaires just like everything else and people who call themselves back checkers that's the that's the funniest thing is back checking organizations if you follow the money where you where's their money coming from their money coming from the anenberg foundation or build gates it's always tied back to a oligarch who's trying to control uh the narrative and so uh yeah so i would i'm i'm not you know as clear as what's happening in uh in britain but i just did a european tour where i was in stock home kopenhagen amsterdam roderdam berlin and aslo and along with london and they all said the same thing that their media is just as shit and nobody can nobody believes it and um i know in norway there's again uh somebody was telling me how much jeff bezos of their media he owns and controls which i didn't realize that that american billionaires would branch out into europe of course they would once i you know so um i i think people are ready uh in the western world i mean you see it with the farmers you saw it with the truckers uh people are ready to revolt uh whether it can happen or not for real i don't know but um you know it's the we don't uh we live in i live in an oligarchy for sure i think everybody almost everybody in the western world lives in an oligarchy and that's why i'm starting to question everything i start you know when i saw the hoax that russia gate was which it was a hundred percent hoax which was instituted by the clinton campaign and uh the fbi and cia and that's where that all came from um and the media in conjunction right and it was to stop down on trump and that on trump which again the establishment loved that on trump my whole life they gave him television shows he was invited on every network late night talk show he was on the cover of every magazine they all golf together their kids are all best friends they all go to each other's third and fourth weddings they all uh you know screwed kids on jeffree Epstein's island so uh all of a sudden they hated him and it makes you go oh okay to what what is this about and it's just because he wouldn't do war exactly the way they wanted to and um that's that's he ran on an anti-interventionist platform and you realize what a bugaboo that is for them right and uh joe biden came in and he immediately you know it was so funny to see people give joe biden credit for pulling out of afghanistan and you know a dumb guy like me who's a comedian and not a professional in this and that none of these people asked themselves the question well why so obviously this isn't joe biden's idea to pull out of afghanistan he's being told to do this and why is it why is this being allowed to happen why are they going to end a 20 year grift of trillions of dollars that it's an upward transfer of wealth in the u.s treasury to the international security state why would they end this well of course they and my question was which i want to ask on my show to all the other people in the space on youtube who were plotting him uh i was saying well has he told you what he's going to do with the money that they were spending in afghanistan has he decided to take that money to invest it back in the united states and give us high speed rail or health care or make college free or fix the roads and bridges or happens apple home no he no they the reason why he they had him do that or he was allowed to pull out of afghanistan and it was because they had another war waiting for him which was ukraine and so that was the next thing and so it's a and even i was stunned at how easily people went along with the ukraine war after we had just gone through iraq same people saw what they said about iraq saw what they said about libya well they never did get the clue about syria people still think that is soggas's own people and my wikipedia page still says that i'm a conspiracy theorist because i debunked that and i said this as as i didn't uh gas his own people which he didn't and uh but it was just amazing to me how the the short memories that people had that the media and the government are going to allow you into a war and everybody just believed in their well because of russia gate right which is why i left the young turks which was i'm sure everybody's familiar with that news media organization on youtube the young turks and i kept telling them you know if you keep repeating cia and fbi talking points about russia gate they're going to use this for a war which is exactly why people in the united states were ready to go along with the ukraine warker they saw it as a way to oppose uh pouton who they were told stole their election in 2016 and handed it to dottle trump who's now racist even though mbc gave him a television network television show for over a decade and emmy awards and everybody loved them so it's i was even shocked by that and so here we are and we have this new speaker of the house mike johnson in his agenda he tweeted out yesterday here's my agenda and everything was getting money for ukraine getting money for israel getting money for it was nothing nothing to help the people of the united states now one thing on there that it was it'd be amazing if people were as motivated in congress to uh give people health care education living wage infrastructure as they were to fund the war machine it's uh ison hauer uh there's a famous video of ison hauer uh that people in the united states are familiar with whereas he was on his way out of office he gave a speech where he said we must resist the undue influence of the military industrial complex well he wasn't kidding because now our entire culture and our entire country and foreign policy are run by the military industrial complex and uh we're poor for it we're becoming a third world nation ourselves we're we're very much like brazil in the united states now where there's very little middle class it's all rich and poor and the and the media which is funded by the military industrial complex keeps workers fighting and hating each other that's the key they know how to divide and they use they use terms like white supremacy they use racism uh they use uh lgbtq issues trans issues immigration and they use all that uh so workers are fighting amongst each other and they take our eye off the ball which is the oligarchy which is what we live in and oligarchy and your vote actually doesn't matter uh because your vote there's no correlation to how you vote in legislation um there's all there's correlation between legislation and money and that's all there is so that's why we don't have nice things in the united states and the place is falling apart and we have people living under every bridge in every major city i think it's uh yeah interesting what you point out because in the past you know journalists don't try to keep uh the whole power accountable these days if you criticize foreign policy uh as you mentioned you have these magical words to make you go away as propagandists uh doing disinformation conspiracy theories all of this uh effectively just a label but they never explain what the propaganda is or exactly what is the conspiracy theory but you're right they do hire these people who are you know supposed to tell us uh what what is the real truth which is apparently this new fact checkers which more often i guess of check check narratives uh but uh it's it's quite strange because uh you mentioned russia gate and during those days uh this was an actual conspiracy theory and it had huge consequences but there's been no reflection and this is what surprised me so much and even during the court current war in the new court there's so much focus on what is the propaganda we have to censor everything that's labeled propaganda but but it's been revealed the main source of the media on the ukraine war has been this institute for the study of war which is run by the kagan and the victorian nuland family this is the and also completely funded by the arms industry i mean if you have the person who is at the center of the you know coup of 2014 and then running america's uh uh uh ukraine policy over a decade and then this is also the person you're getting most of your information from uh who wish you sight on what's happening in the war it's quite extraordinary and and no one picks up on the fact that this would be propaganda but uh sorry where was trying to go was uh how you see the media behaving in the upcoming election because but the past two election i think you know russia dominated the american elections very much in 2016 uh you know you had a russia gate hoax which you point out has been you know focus it around the steel dossier which has now been proved obviously to be fake all of it and then the next election in 2020 you had a hunter biden laptop which could then be dismissed as being a russian uh disinformation campaign also was proven to be not the case uh it was a real scandal and russia had nothing to do with it so it's just wondering what should we expect from uh 2024 will there be another russia gate or is the ukraine war enough to cement uh unity among the among the biden camp or what's what what do you expect well you know the thing is the russia gate uh conspiracy theory which is what it was um and it was a hoax uh it it was so repeated in in the in the media that people just accepted as true even though it was uh they did the molar report and there's never been a charge against donald trump or anybody in his administration related to the court central core charges of russia gate that he was working with russia to help uh somehow overthrow the election or influence the elect there's never been one so but it's been so ingrained in their head that they just take it for granted that donald trump's a traitor to our country he's been working with the vladiver poutins these two evil guys and uh so even though when i try to explain people know it's actually been debunked robert molar said there was no evidence for this in the molar report they're like yeah but there was a hundred indictments from robert molar yeah against but that had nothing to do with anything and so but that's exactly why they had those indictments right so you can pretend that it was valid the russia gate so what i see i mean i'm not i'm not good at predictions um but the russia gate is strong enough but still even with russia gate uh it looks like donald trump is poised to win this election what i think is going to happen and i don't even know if i'm allowed to say this but i think the establishment will rig the election and um they will install a puppet now um whether it's um joe biden now a lot of people is a lot of speculation that they're gonna they're gonna put gavin newsemen and joe biden's gonna uh be forced to uh back out of the uh the campaign because of health issues and then they'll have gavin newse them come in or i've heard people uh say michelle obama um but uh i i think that's a very big possibility by the way and and if that doesn't happen and if it is joe biden joe biden will lose an election no problem uh so if he if he comes out the winner it will be because the establishment rigged it and do you really think that the people who killed kennedy did the iraq war did libya did afghanistan seria now ukraine are funding a genocide and gazo are above rigging an election of course not i mean they blew up building seven for sure uh and nobody again nobody you're not allowed to ask questions about that but um so that that's my prediction as far as what it will there will be a there's also already been uh who was it who's predicted a black swan event well how can you say there's gonna be that's you're not supposed to be able to predict that and so they've already the establishment has already had people in the establishment media saying predicting a black swan event well that's you know so um it was something that's supposed to be unpredictable so the other thing too is covid um everything they said about covid was a lie they lied about where the virus came from they lied about funding it they lied about and you were called a white supremacist if you were right about that um they lied about herd immunity they lied about natural immunity they lied about transmission contraction um they lied about uh social distancing they lied about lockdowns they lied about mass there wasn't anything they didn't lie about but it's like the majority of the population because it's not set they're not told that we were lied to um and uh big pharma funded media in the united states they just just they just memory whole all that and so now if you bring up anything about that they say in the united states people who oh covid's over well that's over so that's it just stop thinking about it stop talking about you know i had cornel west on my show and his whole gig is that he stands up in solidarity with workers and the oppressed well and uh that he's gonna fight fascism well the time came and he did it he talked his tale and he just that he defended the establishment during covid i had him on my show and i pointed out that 41 percent of black owned businesses were closed forever because of the lockdowns during covid and he couldn't give a shit about it it was like water it's off the duck's ass to him doesn't get never talks about it doesn't bring up i told i told you know there were 70,000 health care workers in new york state alone health care workers that got fired from their job for refusing to take an experimental medical treatment and uh getting water off doesn't didn't give a shit about it so his time to come came to stand up for workers and he didn't so it's all bullshit anything guys like that people who you thought were the people who were going to stand up and stream the loudest for workers and students and the elderly and the infirmed and the homeless they don't uh it's all talk and um uh that's been a big eye opener for me um uh and it's it falls on the shoulders of people like me and joe rogan and you and russell brand and uh thank god there's enough people waking up to that fact um again i just did a tour of europe and in every city i went to um you know uh humble brag every show was sold out in a foreign language for fuck's sake i mean i didn't think anybody was gonna show him and so uh i think uh there needs to be some sort of international movement to uh overthrow at least the media for god's sake um i don't know how to media i here's what so in in answer to me this now the bbc is supposed to be public right isn't it funded by the government well how does uh how is it so horrible well in theory it is not funded by the government it is funded through um a system a kind of tax that everybody who owns a television set has to pay so we all have to pay this tax and it goes to the bbc which is a public um foundation and which is supposed to be independent of the government but of course the government controls it through the board of governors who choose the director general and um besides it's the government anyway that ultimately decides what this tax the license for years is called is going to be at any particular time in which enforces it so in a way it looks like it's independently funded but in reality it no longer is if i can say the the moment i mean there was a time that the bbc had a kind of independence which shouldn't overstate it but the moment when it was clear that it it all changed was when um Margaret Thatcher was unhappy with some of the coverage the bbc was making and arranged through the book through the um board of governors to fire um the uh mill who was its director general from that moment on i think the fiction that the bbc was completely independent of the government has basically disappeared and it certainly isn't that any anymore anyway that's that's a bit of a side actually but we do not have an independent media in britain in europe we used to have a massive organized working class based left wing movement i used to be a part of it once upon a time long long ago we had big social democratic labor uh parties like the labor party of grittin the spd as it used to be in germany in scandinavia where glenn is it was very well organized i'm old enough i can remember target l and there in and all of pound that in sweden people like that and of course because they operated within their own organizations and within their own structures they always provided a powerful alternative they were the people who criticized wars they were the people who organized the big protests against wars they were the people who pointed up the facts and who were awkward and who would vote into the british parliament working in class mps from you know from cold mining areas and in factory areas who would speak out against these things that sort of disappeared it just does not exist in europe today and it's one of the great miseries to me how it just vanished how it you know was gone with the wind and how that came about and i think the same thing has happened in the united states though perhaps in a somewhat different way anyway just say well um so i i decided i would be i'm curious to how they control the media because in in the in the united states so we have these elections and they go on for years right the the election cycle it never ends people are constantly running for office the presidential election started last year but it and and so what happens is the the donor class can buy politicians right because you need money to run and even if you don't take their money then they're going to take their money to give it to somebody else and which will beat you right so the money always wins and that's how they control our government and they control our media because they buy it um you know i always to make fun of why does meet the press having to add for Boeing on there are no one's who's watching it is in the market to buy a jet and it's because they're not funding the investigation of nbc news they're funding the non-investigation and so you don't want to investigate us they're going to lose our money and that's exactly how they control everybody that's the wall street military industrial complex big pharma oil companies uh they they buy the advertising on the media and that's how they own them um but in in um in britain you have short election cycles right and are they publicly funded as the elections publicly funded no well advertising f/4 elections by political parties is not privately funded political parties in britain received donations they receive some payments from their members but of course to increasing degree they are funded by the same rich class of oligarchs that you have in the united states and i'm sure this pattern reproduces itself right across europe and if you're talking about the media in europe um as you will very well often find always at the background you know owning some kind of media any kind of media body um anywhere in europe there is always an american foundation lurking and sometimes it's not even that invisible i mean you know in britain um large parts of the media including television are of course owned by the Murdoch family effectively so it's the same people who control the media in the united states basically run the media in europe um it's um and politics the way politics works in britain i can't speak about other european countries is becoming more like what you have in america every with every election cycle um donors the wealthy donor class the the days when the labor party used to get its funding from the trade unions the conservatives used to cut get their funding from british businesses party members used to pay their dues that was how elections were funded all that's gone today as i said it's the same donor class that you get in the united states and they're getting more powerful with every election cycle and you know used to be you were a crazy conspiracy theorist if you talked about the global elite who ran things but now they do it right on the open we know where the build-a-berg meetings are they have davos the wef they they're very cocky and they they talk about their crimes right out in public but it doesn't seem like there's anything that can stop them right i don't you know they they they crush the truckers they froze their assets that's why digital currency is such a an evil that needs to be resisted uh so and the only guy in the united states who's talking about this stuff is rfk jr rfk jr gave a great speech at a bitcoin convention where he talked about um how the that's essential uh to have bitcoin because then the powers that b can't control it it's blockchain and you can't cut up somebody's uh money um unfortunately he's a uh raging zinists which rex's chances to be even considered an anti-war he's also the only one telling the truth about the cia black uh blackstone and um and the the ukraine war and he's the only one saying those things and then he goes and just parrots the worst most odious uh talking points when it comes to you know Iran and Israel and Gaza and the whole deal and um so there's very little hope there but um anyway it's um i've just come to the conclusion that you know that the countries and the western world is just run by a handful of billionaires and there's a deep state and they don't work for the president of the united states you know Chuck Schumer who was the head democrat in the senate in the united states still is but when donald trump got elected he went on msnbc with rachel mattow and he said um which i've shown this clip a million times on my show but most people haven't seen it he said you know donald trump is being really dumb to mess with the intelligence community meaning the cia and the fbi he's like you know for a smart guy he's being very dumb if you don't want to mess with them because they have six ways this sunday to mess back with you and so what he just he gave the game away what he admitted is that that the cia and the fbi and the nsa don't work for the president of the united states they're supposed to um so who do if they don't if they don't work for him who do they work for well they certainly don't work for congress they've spied on congress and nothing happened to them um and so they work for i guess i guess the wf the same handful of donors and bill billionaires that actually do run everything and um so i i hate to be pessimistic uh but i really don't see and people coming together as soon as somebody does stand up uh they co-opt them immediately or they get them demonetized or they put him in bell marsh or something like that and people go along and they and they people in the united states think that julian ason's in prison uh because he helped the russia overthrow the 2016 election and that's not why he's in prison he's in prison because he revealed more crimes of the uh of the united states military uh through jell c manning in iraq that's why he's in prison right and another big reason was he uh you know what vault uh was it vault seven is that was it was good when he revealed all the tricks that the cia was using to spy on people that was that was the the straw that broke the camels back for them i think it's uh i think uh especially in new york the we see uh that the international institutions become uh a corrupting force so of course when we talk about the globalist it's almost uh considered to be well treated as being some kind of a conspiracy theory as if you know global people wouldn't have influence on its own i mean this was the case of the 19th century and it's the same today uh but with international institutions it's something it's happens quite open for example in in uh you have failed politicians but if they fail for the right reasons there's always a place for them in the eve bureaucracy or in the case of nato we have in edilence the prime minister he has been forced to step down and uh of course he wanted to be the next nato secretary general to take over you know the leading nato or that speak for washing at least and in order to get those positions and for the dutch to get some of the top positions uh the dutch media was very open well you know what is he doing to achieve this well you know he joins in on the bombing of the hoodies in yemen he's extra supportive of israel he sent some extra weapons to ukraine so effectively make the uh yam mimic the masters in uh in washington happy and uh this is how you you have you have a career afterwards and again it's not a conspiracy theory anymore if you just see where do the interests lie where what what are the calculations being made and uh but i think it's also the issue of morality because uh you know one would hope that politics will be more moral but the way morality is framed is always this good versus evil and and i think the problem with many journalists is they get convinced that they're fighting the good fight and if they're fighting the good fight you know you make excuses for one side and you exaggerate the other and uh i i think that's why that's a good way of manipulating and as jimmy just said is this repetition over and over again in russia gate this is uh this is a very common propaganda tool this is you know the human mind the way it's learns it's confuses the familiar with uh truth what is known and uh this is something that they use you say something over and over again and people will assume it's correct uh that is true this is big and how we learn but it's uh no i it's uh it's just becomes over after a while it's very obvious what was being done but uh you know you talk about international institutions being corrupted i was shocked during the uh syrian war to see the o_p_c_w uh completely become a tool of uh the international billionaire class and the in the intelligence community and of course hollywood always has been right they just gave uh an academy award to that propaganda uh film about ukraine which was all bullshit and they previously gave the the academy award to the oscar to the white helmets movie which we all now know the white helmets was is intelligence uh so um it seemed i mean i don't i don't again i hate to be a pessimist but i'm also a realist and uh it seems like whenever whenever somebody i mean let's say the truckers rose up in the united states they would just freeze their bank accounts and uh they would control them that way they'd have the media column white supremacists and nazis as as they are actually as the establishment funds nazis and salutes nazis in the canadian part of it uh they were so that uh i i again i hate to be a pal how i'm curious to what your outlook is what you did you think i mean all i can do is give information to people i mean i've been an activist uh brown health care in the united states got roundly trashed for it um and discredited uh but uh i would i'm curious as to what your your outlook is in the future well my own outlook is that this is an unsustainable situation straightforwardly one of the consequences of this closing down of public debate is the decisions are made which are wrong and they can't be corrected in fact they're compounded and we've been seeing this steadily happening in area after area you know policy make it we see it in economic policy disastrously every i mean i first started to notice that there was a closing of debate in Britain at least since the 1980s and i think this is probably true in most places as well in the 1980s since the 1980s every single decade that's passed not just in Britain but in europe generally we have seen a reduction in economic growth economic growth has become more distorted in balances have increased um things are going obviously more and more wrong and um living standards for many people have been increasingly under pressure and now started to fall i think it's not that different in the united states also and it's certainly true in much of europe and of course in foreign policy we are going from one bad outcome to another one war after another you talked about Afghanistan and how people went straight from Afghanistan into the war in Ukraine but each defeat is cumulative and its effect its bad outcome is even greater and we are looking at in my opinion the biggest most disastrous defeat of all which is the one that's coming in Ukraine i mean i think that this is going to be a real debacle on the scale that nothing we've seen up to now can possibly match especially in europe and eventually this accumulation of problems or policy mistakes it's unsustainable in part because the rest of the world is changing around us you go to China you go to India you go to Russia Russia as well you see the things are not the way they were and i think that this isn't something we fully understand we are starting to be left behind because we can't debate things or discuss things properly as we should do and eventually as i said this is going to have an impact and when it does have an impact it'll be very troubling very difficult very disturbing for all of us who have to live through it but it'll probably also be in the end a liberating moment so yes i don't give up i don't believe in despair i always say despair is a bad cancer but that is my outlook of things this is an unsustainable approach and if you look at what's happening i mean Ukraine in my opinion it encapsulates it all everything everything that we've discussed i've just gone wrong foreign policy economic policy the fact that the Russians are now out producing every kind of weapons this you know people can't quite get their heads around that but it's a fact the fact that we're being out fought on the battle fronts of the politics the global politics haven't worked all of this is an illustration of why this can't be sustained for very much longer go ahead well i was just going to say i think i agree that the the Ukraine thing appears to be on the much it will be more significant due to the scale because we'll slide to how about how the war began how it's going but also how it will end so i think that it it might not be comparable to the other fiascos as you know jimmy you mentioned before the opc w i mean for me this was also quite shocking because you know the week elix actually revealed that the that its inspectors had had written a different report and then it had been manipulated before they being released so it was already proven and then you had this investigator was it wheeled and Henderson who came out they you know they they said listen this is not the findings we were the one there we're the one who did investigations this is not our report we're not the one who actually wrote this and even the first director general of the opc w which is so say boston he even came out in support of them you know saying that we need to support the integrity of these inspectors why are you know this is corruption of a key institution it's all wrong so all the evidence is there all the main people are there and still in the media they come with this magic word again oh conspiracy theory where's the conspiracy this is this isn't this is absurd and then and then he goes away and nobody wants to be associated with this because you know it's like being a propaganda conspiracy theories the people just shy away and we don't talk about it anymore so i think you know they can make these things go away but i agree i think the ukraine war is because it will have such a huge effect uh such a disastrous defeat for us that it will demand some questions and which will reveal some of this horrible lies which have been told which can be proven to be lies so you know for interrupting you jimmy no the thing the thing that i don't understand is how europe how they get europe to go along with it you know like when we blew up the Nord string pipeline and it was obvious uh that it was nato in the united states that did that um and now germany's paying a much higher price for energy and it's hurting all of europe why do they i don't get why they accept this what i mean i guess that's just a grip of nato i guess that's why you know having a thousand military bases around the world is that really the intimidating factor because even with our thousand military bases around the world uh we still can't defeat russia in ukraine we couldn't defeat uh asad in syria uh now it appears that the uh uh what is what is happening in gaza it looks looks like kamaz has had had a better strategy is going to come out on top so what so what what what why does europe bend the knee so much nato and uh and the west and the united states i mean i see what they did you know the new game is to criminalize anybody who stands up to nato look what they did to emerald con he said that the people of pakistan don't want to go along with nato in these nato wars anymore immediately he's a criminal and the same thing they did in uh in brazil is they put lula in prison at first because uh he was too far left for the international billionaire class and they thought the center right guy was going to win then balsonaro won and so they were like oh how do we fix this well the only way they could fix is they had to let lula back out of prison because he's the only one who could beat balsonaro so they beat balsonaro and now they just made it illegal for balsonaro to run for president again and so they're doing the same thing in the united states with donald trump and um you know again this is another thing i pointed out to corona west when he came on my show that the same grand jury the same rico statutes that they're using to indict donald trump they use the exact same grand jury same rico statutes to indict the protesters who are protesting the expansion of the police state in the united states which is called stop cop city and when i presented that to him and i said now you see the game that's being played then he called me a trumper and um that's again it's just another heartbreak over the people who i thought were the leaders in the united states who would stand up and who are just establishment chills on purpose and who have lived in ivory towers their whole life and um uh it that that's the new game is to they criminalize their their opponents but maybe they've always done that and i just didn't notice right and um you know barak obama used the espionage act to per to prosecute journalists more often than all the president's combined previous to him and people still walk around saying barak obama is the best president of my lifetime that right barak obama was not a departure from george bush is which people don't realize he was in a continuation of george bush's policies right he didn't give us a single payer health care he gave us a right wing uh give us a health care policy that's a giveaway to big insurance and big pharma that was cooked up at the heritage foundation which is a right wing think tank and he just implemented it right and so just like bill clinton got stuff done that george bush and ronald reagan couldn't get done like naphtha uh which cut the legs out from underneath unions in the united states he got he gutted welfare while he exploded the prison population and he deregulated wall street when he got rid of glass needle that stuff republicans couldn't do but if you make it out to be a lefty like bill clinton or barak obama well then all of a sudden it can get done because people there's no opposition the natural opposition to that is taken away and that's the that's the key thing right so the natural opposition to wall street the natural opposition to the military industrial complex was quieted because if you were uh on the left and you criticized barak obama you were a traitor and you were helping trump or you're helping a right winger or you're sold up so it's um i i see it i i do agree with you well you say it's not sustainable i i think it's sustainable in a sense that uh you know i try to tell people on my show that you know they accuse donald trump and his maga political movement of fomenting a civil war when the exact opposite is true right the establishment who opposes him are the people who would like to have a civil war because they want us fighting amongst each other so we don't come come together along class lines to oppose the oligarchy which is the only thing that scares them and if there's a and i try to remind people if there's a civil war the billionaire classes convinced that they'll be insulated from it and chaos always favors the establishment and so uh and they're gonna they're you know it's just like what the nazis did you blame your opponent from with the things that you're guilty of and that's exactly what they're doing they're saying uh that maga and donald trump wants to civil war maga and donald trump are the people who want to stabilize us internationally but they're that's all the stuff that they're doing and they're they're gonna process say donald trump we we got to keep we got to save democracy we got to vote against donald trump to save democracy because donald trump is gonna he's gonna prosecute his political opponent so that's exactly what they're doing when they're doing it right out in the open and the media goes along with it because it's all bought by the same people um so i i think it's sustainable in a sense that things can get worse and things will just keep getting worse and the united states will just be be getting more like brazil every day and there's no one to stand up and stop it so i i i don't i i would like to think it's not sustainable meaning that something will come along to stop it but i don't think there's anything that's going to come along to stop it we'll see you know maybe uh you know the human human life is a failed experiment maybe i would i think it's making clear when i said he's not sustainable i don't mean that he's not going to be sustained for a very long time in fact i think that as you correctly said the pressures are going to grow and intensify all the time especially as those who lead the system feel increasingly insecure which they already do by the way i mean if they're going to go to the extraordinary lengths that they've gone to keep a man in belmosh it's a sign of how insecure they are um that that's i think one important thing to remember now um you asked a question why did the europeans go along with all of this i think i should say first of all the glen has written an extremely interesting and very good book which answers many of these questions and goes into them in enormous detail but i'm going to just come up with one particular thought which is i think that what happened in europe at the end of the cold war is they said that america has won america has won it's the winning side they're the future we want to be with the winning side and we're going to link up completely to the americans because we want to be on the winning side also and i think this has become very very hardwired within the european political class now i i discussed the fact that you know we saw the left the old left basically collapsed across europe and i think this is partly a product of that because the old left had been suspicious of free markets somewhat suspicious of american style capitalism all of those things all those criticisms suddenly seem to be discredited the americans were the people who knew how to do things right and i think what you have is a political class in europe today which is to a great extent internalized what it thinks are the lessons of the cold war and of the period immediately after the cold war and they still say to themselves let's stick with the americans because one they're the only they're the big show in town two in the end they will prevail because they're still the winners and if it looks as if things are not going quite the way that we expect it if things are not going right well of course we can't change now we can't turn on the americans what we do what we must do is clamp down because otherwise critical systems of this will grow but anyway i i think to answer that going back to the point i think it goes back to the events that took place at the end of the cold war a a a belief that history had really ended that the americans had won and that anybody who wanted to be any body in europe had to be like them okay wow that's uh that's kind of amazing uh do you think the europe will ever stand up against data when the united states i mean even even when their energy price is quadruple i think i think lenn is uh better qualified to answer that he actually in his book says that they will that eventually the contradictions will come but glenn over to you yeah now i was also also careful not to make two bold predictions but uh no but i agree with what lixander said as well i think there's just uh yeah the end of the cold war we saw yeah the idea of liberal hegemony has been very attractive to all european leaders we saw one center of power in the world the united states which was benign uh which could essentially temper all the great power rivalry it will elevate the liberal values of democracy human rights and the greater overall different world uh as many critics said in the 90s uh over time this will drain america resources it will alienate rising powers as they will need to clamp down on them and over after a while if you run an empire it's a bit like an ambolt or under a neck a legitimate legitimacy will start to drain away as well so i think that's what we've seen over the past 30 years uh slowly power is being more dispersed around the world having multipolar rism coming along uh the whenever uh nato screams human rights democracies usually when we're loading bombs on our planes so you know the whole legitimacy around this ideology is also collapsing a bit so i think uh uh it will come slowly but uh i think we're going down with the shifters definitely but uh the new game is also uh everything in the name of climate change which is control right so again the international billionaire class uses the threat of climate change to take away rights and control you and um i don't think it matters i'm i'm actually doubting uh the whole science behind climate change and if it's carbon based and any and if there's anything we can do about it but um that that doesn't matter if you agree with the with what they say is the mainstream science on climate change it's clear that the answers to dealing with climate change are all manufactured by the billionaire class to control us and none of them are there to actually do it well we i just cover that recycling plastic has been a scam for the last 40 years which i've known that for at least a decade too and people don't seem to catch on they still separate their garbards like it's doing something um uh Greta Dunberg will never uh protest outside and the construction of a new uh military base by nato even though the number one emitter of carbon in the world is the united states military uh she's on she's on board with the ukraine war i mean these so it's obvious that these are sciops and that climate change is being used to control us do you do you do you think people will wake up to that or do you even agree with that assessment well i'm just going to make one observation when i remember the greens when they first appeared in the late 70s and early 80s the greens in germany led by people like petra kelly and her partner general bastion they were first and foremost and above all else certainly an ecological movement but also an anti-war movement and anti uh a nato movement all of those things now today they are the most belligerent the most confrontational the most atlanticist um the most supportive of all the other things we've been talking about movement that you can absolutely find i mean they stare at the people who are the furthest fervid advocates of sanctions against russia you're talking about you know the energy problems in europe um you know they they they have come i mean they they reverse themselves so completely and so incomprehensibly that again for someone like myself who remembers them as they were who used to know some of them you know the old greens it is completely bewildering it is absolutely seeing that something turned completely on its head but of course what has happened with the greens is that they were always able to get a lot of young people especially to support them and they always presented themselves as being counter-culturable anti-establishment in a way that young people found attractive they still have some of that there and that does mean that young people who are very often the people who are the ones who are most exposed to the kind of economic pressures that we've been talking about the people who have trouble getting housing who most problems finding good places of work who have all the problems that we talk about education all of that you know they still focus very much on the talking points that the greens give to them rather than think about these other things so just saying yeah the green party has been there bewildering to say the least yeah they were in the United States they were the biggest pushers of russia gate which led me to what called their their last presidential nominee a CIA infiltrator which is no doubt he is and and they also were the most ardent authority the a grears or pushers of the authoritarian policies surrounding covid which is just mind-blowing so there's not a there's not an anti-establishment bone in their body anymore and that's why I mean that's why it's hard for me to stay optimistic it really is I think often they do have a they can present good causes like of course preserving the environments as a good cause but it's always this extracting power from it it's like all these policies now about fighting hate which sounds wonderful we should all stop hating each other but it's a little bit like legislating that we all have to love each other I mean it sounds wonderful but it would demand a huge amount of government power in order to well define what hate means and then to to make sure no one hates I did it's and then the I guess yeah you see this also when well when I see the the u.s military hang the lgbt flag in front of military bases you know is it really conspiracy theory to suggest that maybe the military is not solely motivated by altruism perhaps this could be used for something else I mean I feel if this is gonna be thrown with the conspiracy theory stamp it's it's become pointless it's but anyways before we wrap up we hope for some positive final words from you Jimmy um I don't really have any uh positive uh you know um the positive is that wherever I go people I meet more and more people who are waking up who are rejecting the media that's a positive and they're seeing through it and they know they lied whether it was about Russiagate whether it was about COVID whether it was about Afghanistan Libya and Syria and now Ukraine and Gaza as they see people are seeing through it and I all I can do is hope that that does lead to some kind of revolution but we need a real revolution uh I know for sure in the United States we need a real revolution because um when there's a session of Congress you know uh when there's a session of Congress it's people you really think that those people are doing the bidding of workers or students or the elderly or anybody except the handful of billionaires that run everything of course that's what they're doing and um uh we need to somehow find a way to get rid of them or scare them enough or in the United States I think if we had you know publicly funded elections that will go a long way uh but there's there there's a revolving door of the you know there's there's corporate capture of a regulatory agency so the people who are supposed to be regulating big pharma big oil big tech wall street there they leave the regulatory agency they go immediately into the industry that they were just regulating so of course there's no regulation and that really got kicked off with Ronald Reagan they figured that out um so uh we were again I think people are ready I think if there was a right leader that came along I was hoping it was going to be RFK but of course it's not but I think if the right leader came along and it's got to come from the working class and you know that would be great we just had they claim they had big wins for the auto workers and Detroit recently but it's obvious that the guy who's running that is also compromised so I think that that was like they had they had already had those those wins for the union baked into the cake so um anyway yeah my big hope my big positive thing is that more everywhere I go from Europe uh to the United States people are seeing through it and uh hopefully that sparked some kind of a real revolution uh and not a fake uh insurrection like I that happened on January 6th I agree and I wanted to just say thank you Jimmy to coming on our program I just I will for ending up positive now because I you know before I became anything else I studied history and one of the I think the truism about history is that when change looks impostable after it's happened you realize the change is actually was actually inevitable and I think that is probably true about our times as well but precisely because look change looks impossible or at least very difficult that's probably a guarantee that that's some point maybe not immediately not next year or the year after or in 10 years but eventually it will come and we'll be there to see it okay well I we fingers crossed thanks Jimmy right thanks for having me on it's been a blast I really appreciate it yeah I'd love to show you guys do great work thank you very much thank you Jimmy okay [Music]