Support for this podcast comes from Progressive, a leader in RV Insurance. We've all made RVing mistakes like not pestproofing the RV for winter, but there's one mistake you shouldn't make, not ensuring your travel trailer. Progressive RV Insurance can protect your travel trailer when your auto or home insurance can. Get a quote at Progressive.com, progressive cash routine insurance company and affiliates. Between bad calls and intense rivalries, there's enough to stress about on game day. Keep your mind on the field and off your body odor, with Dove Men Plus Care Whole Body Deodorant, available at Walmart. Dove Men Whole Body Deo provides all-day auto protection from your pits, privates to feed. From pre-game analysis to halftime insights to unexpected over times, Dove Men Whole Body Deo gives you confidence that lasts all day. Pick it up at your local Walmart. [MUSIC] >> Do that smiley coffin for 61. Wow. >> I'm smiley coffin, and this is the smiley show. >> All right, guys, welcome back to another episode of The Smiley Show. We got a great guest today with Max Grazerman. Been on one incredible run. I doubt there's been many other players playing as good as golf as Max Grazerman has in Max. I mean, you're home now, the season's over. >> Yeah. >> And when you look back over the last, gosh, I guess three or four months, I mean, did you envision yourself being in a position now where you're sitting as good as you possibly could be heading into the 2025 season? >> Yeah, it's been a crazy year. It's been a great year. I don't know if I necessarily envisioned it. I felt like I always was capable of playing this well, but I don't know if I truly believed that I was ready to play this well. But I think that once I just kind of got the ballroom with a couple of good finishes and I got comfortable, I think that's when I started to realize that I kind of belonged. >> Yeah. >> And so then it became kind of comfortable being the mix. And so very fortunate to have a good year. And it's been nice to have some downtime finally. I haven't had that in a while. So it's been a chill, kind of little off season. I played two events in the fall for the most part. It's been pretty chill and just getting ready for next year, Sam. >> Yeah, what does downtime look like for Max Grey's? I mean, we just met your dog, Willie, a minute ago, a golden doodle. Your wife luckily had some technology that we're using for Max today. So if you're seeing Max's pretty face up there with the logo and everything, you can take the wife for that, but what's the downtime look like for you, Max? >> Downtime looks like a lot of time with my dog, some time with family, getting my dog groom, taking her on walks, petting her and making sure she's fed. It's kind of like the pre-steps of having a baby, I guess. >> Yeah. You're right on track, buddy. Trust me. You're right on track. >> So I don't know. I had someone ask me, I was at a wedding this past weekend, and someone asked me, what are my hobbies outside of golf? And I sat there for a second, I'm like, man, I don't really know. I think it's time to get some hobbies. So I'm in the process of figuring that out. I kind of read some books. I hang out with friends. I don't really get to hang out with friends from home while I'm on the road, obviously. I'm just busy all the time. And so it's nice to just kind of get that social life in a little bit, because on the road, I just feel like you're just working for 50 straight days. I mean, you know how it is. Usually you get into a stretch where you have six tournaments in a row, and you don't take a day off when you're traveling, and it's just a circus. >> Well, can we workshop some ideas for hobbies for max grades? >> I need someone. I mean, I might need to sit down with a therapist and figure out what are the hobby options here? >> I mean, I got a couple that come to mind. So we can go to Dick's outdoors. We can go by a fishing pole. We can be a fisherman. >> I do like the fishing idea, but the bass fit my coach. >> Jeff's a big fishing guy. >> He's a huge bass fishing guy, and that just doesn't do for me. I need to thrill deep sea fishing. >> Okay. >> Actually, I played the Cabo tournament, and I stuck around for a few days, and we went deep sea fishing and caught up bluefin tuna, and then a Marlin for a second, and that was fun. >> Did you know? Do you have a picture on your phone? >> I can see this bluefin tuna. I'll do a little chit-chatting here as you pull that up, and you speak in of Jeff Smith. This is your coach who I've gone and seen. He's an incredible teacher, and Jeff has been posting you for a very long time. Here we go. If you're watching on YouTube, check this out. We'll get the bluefin tuna. This is from Cabo. >> That's pretty bad. >> My goodness. That is huge. >> Yeah, enormous. >> How long did that take to reel in? >> Probably like 30 minutes, a little less than 30 minutes. >> A little less than 30 minutes. >> I was. >> So you had to be sore the next day. >> And then I lost -- we had another one that was probably bigger, and you could see how much it's pulling on there. I had to sit down for a second, and I lost this one. I think it was so heavy that the line just broke. >> How -- it looks like I could see the shoreline in that first picture. It didn't look like you're that far out. We were 25, probably 25 miles out. >> Okay. I thought I saw the shoreline. I was like, "Man, that's scary that that fish is that close to shore." >> It was a big voice. Didn't know dinner tasted good that night. I'll tell you that. >> Oh, nice. They cut it up for you. >> We actually ate it on the boat on the way back, which was cool. >> So they just -- >> That's called fresh. >> That is fresh. >> That is called very fresh. They cut the fishing, the deckhand, cut it all up, and then just ate it all right off the deal. >> So I need -- do you have a George Foreman girl out there? >> Yeah, right now right here. >> Wow. Look at that. >> She cut it up right in the back. >> Man, how good is that? >> Yeah, that was fun. That would require me getting a boat, though, and taking care of it and maintenance, and that sounds like a hassle. So I need a friend. Anyone who listens to it before? >> Yeah, you're a juke. I mean, you're not far off from just hopping on a boat and being out to sea. >> Yeah, and this is a PSA to anyone who wants to go fishing. I'll happily go with you. >> Where do you play down in Jupiter? This is -- don't you play down in Metalis? Is that right there? There you go. Who do you play without there? >> Great club, by the way. Great hang. A lot of good scratch golfers. Oftentimes people talk about the pros that are there. But I don't know if I've been to a club that has that many kind of plus a couple to under, you know, four, three digit handicaps. It's honestly impressive. And then the people that I play with usually, we used to have a really large pro crew. I would play with, you know, Aaron Wise, Alex Noren, Matt Wallace, Denny McCarthy, Adam Svenson, Peter Yule, and Matt Wolf. You got Olin Brown, senior Olin Brown, Jr. Obviously Tigers out there. Ricky, JT, Anthony Sanders now there. I mean, that's quite a stable. We've had a lot of guys have left because new courses have opened up and this and that. So I would say currently the guys that vote the most are actually Pete Ulin and Matt Wolf. So I'm kind of -- >> Pete's always playing out there. I'm playing with Pete out there. Good bit. >> They're great. I'm playing with the defector. I'm playing with the lip guys. I got to make sure they don't coach me. >> I mean, after all your great play, it wouldn't be surprising. Denny actually was the one that told me, I believe that maybe that you had played some plenty of games with him. You mentioned that you had played with him not a medalist. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And he basically said to me, he's like not surprising to see Max have all the success because he was the one that was kicking our **** when we were out there playing. We were on the PGA tour. So I guess it wasn't surprising to see you playing basketball. >> The lowest on the totem pole in terms of the guys out there at the time in the last couple of years because I was on Corinford and everyone was on PGA. And I was playing these games and I would have a lot of success at medalists playing these guys. So I was always -- and I fortunately have won a few member members and all that stuff. And I just seemed to always play well there. So I just needed to take that golf and take it out on the tour because I was always able to beat them for the most part which was fun and it helped me kind of build my confidence. I was always trying to surround myself like to the younger players out there. I would tell them always surround yourself with players that are better than you at that time. And so -- because you can learn from them and you can -- you start being them and you start to grow your own confidence. So that's always what I've done outside of college, always surround myself with people that are better than me. So. Yeah, I got this text from Jeff Smith, your coach. And he had basically just said that it -- he said it's taken me 10 years to convince him just how good he is, clearly as a rare combination of elite speed, 185 mile an hour ball speed, elite putting second on the PGA tour this season. And he just said that that will put you on contention a lot of times on tour. So talk about just your journey to get to the PGA tour, how much Jeff Smith, your coach, has been able to instill confidence and all the ingredients and tools that you needed to be able to take your overall skill set and talent and then be able to just mentally know like, hey, this is how I do things, I'm good enough and this is how I'm going to be able to become a PGA tour star. It's certainly been a long journey, very fruitful journey with a lot of perspective along the way. Jeff's been a big part of that, coming out of college, you know, I played very well as a junior, you know, AJJ and all that stuff and went to Duke and then kind of just struggled while I was at Duke with my game, I would say, especially my first couple of years. It was like, as a junior I was like this and then immediately I went to college and it was back down. And can I ask you this real quick because Jonathan Fly, who also is underneath Jeff out at just the Spring Creek Ranch, he was telling me that you have scoliosis. Yeah, I do. So when did that diagnosis happen? Was that in your junior year? I was junior year, like 16, 17, my neck was all sort of messed up and then I went to the doctor and they took an extra and they're like, wow, your spine is pretty crooked. So I have a picture of it on my phone actually, I'll pull it up on my phone. So even at like earlier, you know, eight, nine, 10, 11, 12 years old, like there was nothing that showed that scoliosis was, you know, something that you developed and this is something that just happened every time. Yeah, it doesn't really bother me day to day. I just think it kind of sometimes can screw with my neck or back just positioning wise. But here we go. Yeah, if you're watching on you, oh my gosh, that is, listen, I'm no doctor. But if I saw the scan, I'd be like, hey, hey, Max, I think, I think you have scoliosis. Yeah, it actually has a two. So it's, it's, you get surgery. If it's a certain basic percentage of curve or great degree of curve or something. What is that? I don't know, it's a lot more than zero though, yeah, it's the, I was just kind of under that necessary number to have surgery. So basically the doctor said you don't need surgery, it's not going to be a big deal, which thankfully it wasn't like, yeah, and that was, that was junior year. And so going back to the, to the college thing, I don't know if I was got, I don't go to an on in college, golf team, fraternity, yeah, I'm at my wife, there we met. You're in a frat? I was, yeah. Well, frat were you? Kappa Alpha. Kappa Alpha. Talk to me about the frat at Kappa Alpha. We had a great time. I'm not going to go into extreme detail. Well, you don't have to go into extreme details. I did y'all win any flag football championships? Like, what were we known for at Kappa Alpha? Probably would have won the social award, maybe a few parties here and there, the four of them. Okay. All right. Same last. We had, you know, great people. Really smart. Duke is kind of a work hard, party art school. So there's some really, really smart people that I was around and a lot of them kind of went to New York to work there. And I'm still very good buddies with them fortunate to kind of grow that social life instead of just the golf team. So there were a lot of cool people that I met at Duke. And so with the fraternity, with the wife, you know, she was on the tennis team, I would go to tennis matches. So cool. Cool. Golf. I think I was just very split mentally across a lot of different avenues. So that's probably why I didn't have success in college as a golfer, but each year I still got better. Like I got worse my freshman sophomore year, but then by the time senior year rolled around I was a lot better. And then I graduated and I wasn't quite ready, I had met Jeff, my coach, I think it was sophomore year. And he was kind of a big turning point for me because one, I think he's very knowledgeable as a coach in terms of maybe what positions you need to be, how to fix your swing and stuff like that. But he's also always willing to learn new things and he has experience with pros. So when I graduated college, I talk with my parents and I'm first time I've ever not lived on the East Coast, I moved to Las Vegas to spend basically to spend time with Jeff when he was home, I would work with him and whenever he was free, I would kind of work with him. So I was able to get a lot of time with someone who's very knowledgeable and grow my skill level and how to practice and just totally, just everything was with Jeff. And so after two years in Vegas that I moved back East to Florida to medalist and felt like I could surround myself with some really good players once I kind of got my skill level to a spot where it needed to be. And then it was kind of off and running, but like those two years in Vegas, it was almost like I graduated college and I kind of locked myself down for a year or two. I played on the Canadian tour, but again didn't really have a ton of success, but I think I attribute kind of my success now to those two years of learning how to become a professional. And Jeff was a big part of that. That's super interesting and he was coaching on a TPC Summerland, right? Yeah, he was at a TPC Summerland. He was at the time Aaron Wise lived there, Scott Pierce, he lived there. So those were kind of two mentors, I guess that I would go to and play with. Okay. And the journey kept going back to Florida and then I got my corn fairy status, the second year I was pro, my second time at Q school, got you. And then it was kind of off and running then, but then, you know, COVID happened. So there's a setback there and then that was, that turned out to be two years in the corn fairy tour. And then I had a lingering risk issue for a couple of years then I had surgery. And then so then I lost another year on corn fairy tour through a medical. And so I'd, you know, I'd like to think maybe I would have gone to the tour a couple of years sooner, if it hadn't been COVID or it hadn't been my risk surgery or something like that. But all those experiences, I think helped me, you know, gain perspective and, and all that stuff. And by the time I did get to the PGA tour, I was, I was ready to go. Which wrist was it was your left or your right? Right wrist. So is your right wrist? Where was it on your right wrist? Uh, it was, it was a lunate, the lunate bone, which is one of the bones in your wrist. Kind of in the middle, I have a scar. It's probably tough to see, but I was like, it's, it's on the top side, like, is where it would bother you? It kind of felt like it was everywhere. It was like when I would hit the wall, I'll get this reverberating pain. And I was trying to figure out whether I'd come from a certain shot or something. And I just think it was just years of abuse, my risk to golf balls. Yeah. And you're talking to a guy that had a right, right hand, right wrist, everything. It just, uh, people don't understand how brutal it is. I actually think that the two things that are the worst off for you long term is if you have wrist problems and neck problems. So. Yeah. That's why the school, you know, send us back and write risk problems. So you read bug has been tricky on you. It's been a little tricky, but, um, thankfully I resolve, it seems like I resolve the risk issue. So and the school system bothered me too much. Yeah. So it's the kind of the first time I, the first time probably ever in the last two years that I haven't really had thought or, or risk pain, which maybe that's why I'm playing with who knows. But. I mean, invasive surgery, uh, did they remove something? Did they add some padding? Like, what was the surgery? They shaved off basically the best way I can spend it. It was kind of a micro fracture of the lunate bone and they shaved off the edge. It was kind of hanging off essentially. Okay. It's shaved off a small piece of that. And then I was, you know, had a couple of months of recovery and, you know, it didn't really feel. It took me about like eight months. Yeah. It was really back to normal because I think I tried to come back too soon. I got the itch, you know, no way golfer tried to come back too soon. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I think it would have taken shorter at it and I tried to come back. Support for this podcast comes from Progressive, a leader in RV insurance. We've all made RVing mistakes like not pest proofing the RV for winter, but there's one mistake you shouldn't make, not ensuring your travel trailer. Progressive RV insurance can protect your travel trailer when your auto or home insurance can. At progressive.com, progressive cash routine insurance company and affiliates. Between bad calls and intense rivalries, there's enough to stress about on game day. Keep your mind on the field and off your body odor with Dove men plus care, whole body deodorant available at Walmart, Dove men, whole body deal provides all day auto protection from your pits, privates to feed from pregame analysis to halftime insights to unexpected over times. Dove men, whole body deal gives you confidence that lasts all day. Pick it up at your local Walmart. So let's just talk about perspective and all this, right? Like you just mentioned that, you know, potentially, you know, you would have made it out to the PGA tour a little sooner, maybe if injuries weren't an issue or COVID doesn't happen. But now the, the injury happens, you have the surgery and so now you're in this position of you're sitting around, you're watching your buddies play on the PGA tour, you're watching them have all the success. And you know how good you are. You're beating these guys at home over the last couple of years of medvis for you. How are you able to not get too far in front of yourself? I know you said you wanted to get back and start working at it, but was there something that kind of switch in your brain during that time off where you're like, you know what, I am good enough. Like I'm going to let this thing, you know, heal itself. And when I come back, I have, you know, maybe just a little different perspective. I think that it, that kind of goes to the mental game in terms of comparing yourself to other players. I think it's really important not to do that. Your mind inherently wanders and wants to always compare yourself to someone else. But you're, you're kind of on your, your own journey and your own time. And so it's really important not to be like, Oh, I'm beating this guy and look what he's doing. I should be like that because then it's kind of a negative spiral. It's you need to work on your process and your routine and your practice schedule and stay in your lane and then you'll get to that level. And then on the perspective side with taking time off from injury, I basically went and I shadowed my brother in law a little bit. I wouldn't say I went to work, but I was kind of looking at other avenues, reading a few books. He was working in, in real estate, so I was just figuring out maybe, maybe golf wasn't for me. I don't know. I think in that time off, it made me appreciate what I was doing with golf a little bit more. Yeah. And so when I came back, it was more so when I came back, I knew that plan B was going to be okay. I was always talking to my parents about plan A and plan B growing up. So that's why I kind of went to Duke and tried to establish myself around great people and smart people and learn from them. But I didn't really know what plan B was. So I was always scared if golf failed, what would I do? Well, now I kind of had a sense of maybe what I would do. And so I think that gave me a little bit more comfort of going back to golf and knowing that if this fails, that it's going to be okay. And at the same time, that it's time to get to work. And all the years of people telling me how good I was and me not believing in myself, I think was always a problem. You know, Jeff always told me how much he believed in me. My mom always told me that and stuff like that. And it finally sat inside me and I finally believed in myself. Yeah. And you make it up to the PGA Tour. So let's just talk about the first half of the season for you because if you go and look at your results, the second half is going to be the really fun part to talk about. But let's go and talk about the first half because it's mixed with up and down, like you had some good finishes, but also you're trying to learn new golf courses and it's not easy trying to feel like you're playing from behind in the FedEx Cup race. No, the first start is also tricky with the whole greens. I think that got me coming off the corn fairy. I think I was, I finished ninth and I was, I'm pretty sure I was the highest player on the standings without a win. So that kind of gave me, gave me a lot of confidence knowing that I'm ready to compete on the PGA Tour, especially my skill set with the driving and the putting. And I think I just got to the tour and there's just a lot of people. It's a circus every week. You got player relations, player dining, people on your autograph, media trainers, and just like a lot of drunk people out there and a bunch of cap and office from Duke out there. It's just having too good of a time. He just kind of, it's a new arena, right? The corn fairy, there's not that many people. And then combine that with, you know, the POA, I think the POA kind of got to me early. Is it in the whole West Coast? The West Coast, you had the Sony open, the greens, they didn't, they weren't rolling well at the start of this year. And then you had hammocks and you had Tory and a couple of the ones. And basically for the first time in a while, I was like, how, why am I not making any putts? Like, I was cutting green in the corn fairy tour in previous and then all of a sudden, I'm like, not making any putts at all. And then you just, just calm down, understand, you know, it's a long season. You get, you saw the people around and then, you know, I feel like slowly I got back on my game. I just, I made sure not to freak out, that was key. And then I think, I think it just needed time. I didn't need time to adjust. I don't think anything was crazy happening with the game. I was just putting, there was a huge outlier. And so got back into it and, you know, slowly started to get some good finishes. And then, and then all of a sudden, bang, summer hits around and I'm off and running. Was there any event in the first half of the year before the U.S. Open where you felt like you got a taste of what it's like at the top of the leaderboard? Yes. I think Houston Open, so that's, I'm pretty sure Houston Open's in March. That's fairly early. And especially with the rookies, you're not playing signature events. Yeah. You're the group in front because I remember we were waiting on the Par 3 7th hole. I think it was 7th hole, is that right? Yeah. I'm pulling, you had a beautiful shot in there. Actually, no, you got gusted and up in the front left bunker. But I just remember watching your golf swing and the ball fight. I'm like, man, really like what I saw in just like the short, you know, because I'd heard about your game so much from Jeff over the years and how good you were going to be. And so I'm like, oh, here's Max. He's on the team. I'm going to watch him. And it was like, okay, I see what he's talking about. That Houston Open was big for me because it was my first top 10. And I think I was only, I was in contention. I think I was only two shots off the lead. And then Scotty was in the mix too. I was playing behind Tony Fino, I think. And so just being in the mix with those people and there was, there was also some pretty big crowds out there that kind of gave me my first taste in March and kind of spurred that confidence a little bit having, having had a kind of a bad start to the season, not a great start to season. And then, you know, in April, the next month, T4 at Zarek was right in the mix too. You know, we had a bad bogey with like a couple. You're playing with Niko, right? Yeah, yeah. It was my own Niko. Are you all buddies from just the corn fairy? Just how do you all know each other? Yeah, we both, we both were on the corn fairy for a few more years than we would have liked. And so, so we played with each other a bunch and my current caddy speaks fluent Spanish. So just kind of, you know, and he speaks Spanish. So they're probably saying stuff in Spanish, like behind my back or something. You, you can read Russian, but you can't speak Russian. Your parents are, are from my parents are from modern day Ukraine. They left when they were teenagers. And so that was my first language growing up, but they, they wanted, I think they wanted me to become very American American, Americanized and kind of socialized in that network. Yeah. So we stopped kind of speaking Russian at home. So I would like slowly forget it as a child. And then, and then you know, my grandparents still speak it. So then I decided to take it in college for three semesters to kind of rekindle it a little bit, but all those distractions that I mentioned, I wasn't paying attention too much. So, but I did pay attention to the reading part. So I can, and I can speak like household words around the house, but if I was to have a full-blown conversation, I'm not definitely not looking at Russian. Yeah. I imagine you're one of the two guys on tour that can, it's very odd, very weird feeling to read something and not understand what it means. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I've never gotten that far. Just a, just an English guy over here. So I can't relate. That's good enough. That's all you need to know is English. You're golden. I'll get back to Nico, because you two really, you know, if you pick some MVPs from this, this FedEx Cup fall season and just really the second half of the season, you and Nico both played some incredible golf. Yeah. He's, he's been a good buddy for a while and we decided to play, uh, zerk together and got a little more friendly there. And it's really cool to see him playing well as his girlfriend Claudia is great. They're good people and I enjoy kind of spending time with him. And maybe it's because like my family is not necessarily from America. So I'm like maybe accustomed to hanging out with, you know, people that aren't from America as well. Uh, and he's just a great guy, a great player and happy to see him playing well and we played in the final round together at the sozo. And so we were playing with JT as well and, you know, all of us played well that day and he came out on top and then so we're at the bar after, you know, at night celebrating his win. And he, well, he asked me on the 15th hole at, uh, at zozo, like do you want to play zerk again together? And I'm like, yeah, yeah, probably I would like to play with you, but I'm not going to set my schedule that far ahead yet, right? So I didn't say no, but I didn't do a hundred percent yes because I don't want to commit and then, you know, and so I always like, oh, it's going to be like that. And I'm like, no, no, I just can't commit yet. And then after at night, you know, he's, you know, three sheets of the win at the bar. Obviously I would be too if I won the zozo and, and he's, and it's funny because his girlfriend has, they've been dating for a while and they're not engaged yet. She's always kind of pushing the button a little bit at the bar and us we're talking and he goes down on a knee. But he goes down on a knee to me saying, Hey, you want to play the zerk together? Right. I know his girlfriend who's been dating for like 10 years. Oh gosh. And she, she, she did not, she took it nicely, but I'm sure you're like, Oh my gosh, man. This is your delivering the goods here. This is incredible. I mean, in my mind, I'm thinking if you're on the 15th hole and Nico asked you that as well, like a one way you could have phrased the answer back to him. You could have said, you know what, I think I'm probably not going to play the zerak. I'm going to be in the winners category from winning the zozo, like you could have kind of been like, you know what, I'm not too concerned about the next four holes of the rest of this championship because it's mine. It could have gone that route in that game with them. We were friendly in the, in the final round. It was JT was a little more business like, I mean, we're all business like, but he was doing a little less talking and me and Nico and my caddy, we've just known each other for a while. So we're talking quite a bit. And do you think that helps both of you in that like situation, if it was just you in that final group with JT, there's a reason why he's won as many times as he has on the PGA Tour because I think there is a bit of intimidation of how he carries himself on Sundays. I think, I think that's kind of his, maybe his MO a little bit. I mean, people would talk about Tiger right in the final group or just on Sundays. I'm sure Tiger wasn't really talking to anyone and super serious and stuff like that. I can't say whether I would have played better or worse being more serious or being more talkative. But I kind of liked, you know, playing in the final group with a friend. It was, it was, it was fun. I bet. I bet. Well, let's get to the second half of the season. I'm just going to let everybody know kind of how you've played, I mean, since the three am open, you finished second, window, you finished second, FedEx, Cup, St. Jude, you finished 33rd. We'll get into that. There's more to that BMW finished 28th. So it's second at Zozo and a fourth at the worldwide technology. So I have, Charlie's going to pull up a video of what you and Jeff had worked on. This is with sports, sports box AI. So I am so interested in, in this type of technology because you're able to take a video and then really work on some of the things that, that you can measure, which a lot of times in videos, you're just guessing, but it's cool to have this type of info. What exactly, looking at this face on, or you two trying to accomplish this on the rage at St. Jude. You can see chest sway and pelvis sway. So that's basically how much your body is moving, essentially moving towards the target. So obviously we're looking face on, but if you imagine it down the line, how much essentially a horizontal shift my hips and upper body have towards the target. So I used to basically take my upper body and shift it really hard towards the target and basically get down and left, if you can picture that. And so we're trying to get my lower body to move a little more towards the target, basically my upper body to stay a little bit more back because I'm left handed. And so as a righty, when I pull this way left, I need to back up late because I'm so far essentially ahead of the ball. So if I can just stay a little bit more behind it a little longer, I don't have to back up late and then kind of throw my hands at it as much. I can stay more behind it and throw my hands at it and kind of hit that little pull fade. So we've been working on that for a while. And we've actually talked about this for two years, but we've just been trying to figure out what's the right way to go about it, because we've tried a few different things and it just hasn't, it hasn't felt good. I wasn't hitting it good and feel confident what I was working on. And so we're focusing on that left shoulder, left shoulder kind of moving up as I rotate. So that kind of, if I keep my left shoulder this way, you can see how I tilt back. So keep my left shoulder a little bit more up with kind of the feeling that we went with versus a couple of other things we tried. And so it's been a huge, huge difference for me in my swing because we always felt like there's just maybe some small missing piece that we weren't sure about. And I think, I think we found it and I've hit it pretty well, much better since then. Obviously, we've been punting it great, but this sports box has been kind of huge for us because you can measure instead of just guess. And he said he's, you've been able to line up the shaft better to impact. It's a little less draggy and it's opened up a lot of speed for you. Like you're, you're, instead of like a little launching, you're now like winding up the shaft, you're hitting it a little higher and you're finding the middle of the face. Yeah, I used to, I used to hit it off the toe because if you kind of pull this way left and you're, you can't release the club and line it up. So I'm dragging the handle, which causes you to hit it off the toe. And so I've been able to hit it higher. I picked up a little bit more speed. I've had speed and then I lost it and I picked it back up. So this was probably the leak. And so I've been able to hit it a lot higher. I talk with him a lot about on tour, what shots do you need on tour? You'll be able to launch the ball high with your irons and stop it quickly because the greens are very firm. On the corn freight tour, you don't need that. The greens are soft. We're playing in the Midwest. It rains a lot. And so you don't necessarily need that shot, but you do definitely need to hit high with your irons on tour. So we asked ourselves, how can we do that? And this has been one of the ways. Man, it's, it's frustrating hearing that you're, what your swing thought is out of the top. If I tried what you just said, oh my gosh, I, it's a scary, it's a scary thought for me. That's a, it's just scary. Like trying to like stay back. Like I, I think most, uh, most golf, right handed golfers or at least guys that have a lot of speed, if anything, they get too much right side men to early out of the top and they get too underneath, which is, it's really it's a game of opposites for you. It's a good problem to have a lot of people don't get to have those feelings of being able to stay, you know, kind of underneath it a bit. And you can kind of, you can see the way that I use the ground and like the power and that's something that I've worked on with Jeff since, since day one, we, we always were thinking about from the ground up and we were thinking about how can we hit it straight, but how can we hit it far? And that's something he's always talked about since, since the first lesson that I had with him. And my, I mean, it's been 10 years, almost, I've been working with him since two thousand and fifteen probably, 2015. So we're talking 10, it's been 10 years in the making. So it's, it's just been cool to see where, where we've, where we've, where we've been and where we are now because we've, we've been the lowest of lows and, you know, almost the highs of highs with a win. So we got a win soon, but it's just been a crazy journey, you know. Support for this podcast comes from Progressive, a leader in RV Insurance. We've all made RVing mistakes like not pest proofing the RV for winter, but there's one mistake you shouldn't make. Not ensuring your travel trailer. Progressive RV insurance can protect your travel trailer when your auto or home insurance can. Get a quote at Progressive.com, progressive cash routine insurance company and affiliates. Are you still quoting 30 year old movies? Have you said cool beans in the past 90 days? Do you think Discover isn't widely accepted? If this sounds like you, you're stuck in the past. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. And every time you make a purchase with your card, you automatically earn cash back. Welcome to the now it pays to discover. Learn more at discover.com/creditcard based on the February 2024 Nelson report. Yeah, absolutely. And, uh, Charlie, you're, you're good to take the video down as we kind of go through the last, the six events that I mentioned, and that, that was on the range in Memphis. And before that, I think we have to talk about the 3M and the wind of championship because the 3M was a weird tournament because it, it felt like nobody wanted to win the golf tournament. You're way out in front and the memorable shot from you was on 18 and it ended up on to the green. It was an incredible shot. One that you felt like you had to go try and pull off. You did. You make your birdie. But I just remember the calm, cool and collectiveness of you for not being on the range and just looking nervous. Instead, you're playing ping pong in the locker room waiting for the tournament to see if there's going to be a playoff. I'm like, man, that's kind of, uh, that's kind of good vibes there. Yeah. I mean, you might as well, it was going to be like 45 minutes to an hour before a potential playoff. So it might as well have fun while you're waiting around. I mean, my caddy was taking a nap on the floor in the locker room and I was playing ping pong. You're playing with them. I'm sure remember you played ping pong with us. I was playing with Neil Shipley. He won the USM, right? So, uh, second, second, second, you say second, second, you say, okay. So people probably know from that, he's a great guy, great player. He's, he's kind of a math wizard. He went to Ohio State. So I was kind of curious to ask some questions there, but we were playing ping pong and what do you ask? He was studied like mathematical finance at Ohio State and that's something that my dad had studied as well. So I was just trying to see if there were any parallels there. Okay. Cause I, I didn't know if it was like a, like a, a specific math problem that you're wondering if he could solve for you or I didn't know what math guys ask other math guys. Uh, yeah. Yeah. And maybe that wasn't the, maybe I'll ask him now, but that probably wasn't the right time in place right before I play off to get really deep into my math. Take your mind off of it. Who cares? Well, when do we just take my mind off of it and that, uh, that was just a, that was just a crazy, crazy final shot, crazy tournament, you know, Johnny Vegas stepped up and hit a great table on 18, but that shot I hit on 18. I feel like, I feel like if I don't know, Rory or JT hit that shot, you know, people will be talking about it for months. Yeah. Well, it was, it was an incredible shot cause I've been over there left and I know exactly the shots that you had. So, uh, well done there and Wyndham is, it's a very interesting one. We've talked about this a bunch on the podcast the week after it happened, um, and then other weeks throughout the year, uh, really just discussing your great play this fall, but also like how you handled yourself to the Wyndham championship, which I, I commend you for because, you know, when you hole out on the 13th hole at the window and you got this four shot lead, um, and then you hit it out of bounds, hit the cart, bath, bad break. Uh, and then it leads to a quadruple bogey, three putt on, on the 17th hole, um, and you end up losing the golf tournament. Now there's two ways you can look at it, right? Like there's, it's the element of like, okay, hasn't been in that position before. Things got too quick. Um, but then I saw your interview after the round and it, it, it seemed like to me, it was, it wasn't really, it may be in a little case of that, but much more of like a, hey, listen, I, I got to a place on the PGA tour where I had a four shot lead and it was mine to win. So it seemed like to me that you took more confidence from that week knowing that you can win on the PGA tour and that you'll take a different step the next time, maybe in a decision making or taking that extra breath. Because when you come off an emotional high of making a wedge shot, I don't think anybody realizes how difficult it is just to sell yourself back in. Cause you're like, all right, I, I've got enough stroke lead now, like this is mine to win. Like it's, it's almost like not taking your foot off the gas. I think, I think you said it well and that tournament was, it was chaotic, it was chaotic at times. Yeah. I thought it was a weather week too. Yeah. We, we played 36 in the final day, you know, I felt like I was in the mix the whole time, you know, hold that wedge shot. I knew where I was on the board. Everything was feeling good. I, you know, did some breath work, calm down after I hit the wedge shots. Obviously your emotions running high and felt, felt good on, on the next tee. Just kind of got ahead of that driver a little bit, push it right, lands OB next thing, lands on the car path. Next thing you know, it's OB if, if that ball doesn't land on the car path, probably easily when the golf tournament, you know, I'm looking at four or five, most likely. And I made, I made a mental error. I made a mistake of, of not truly laying up. I was trying to lay up, but I didn't, I didn't 100% make sure that the ball would stay short of the cross bunker there on 15 when I was laying up, end up making it eight. And then, then I bird you the next hole and then I'm right back in the tournament, right? And then I had that crazy four-putt. And then when I look back at the tournament, like you said, I, I played good enough golf to win. And I think, you know, my, my dad always taught me not to be, not to be too emotional in, in chaotic situations and not let your kind of negative biases in your brain affect you. And I was looking at the positives after that tournament and knew that I was doing great things and I need to just remain level headed and continue to stick to my process week to week in my practice and I'll get right back in that situation. And so even though I didn't sleep that night and I'm sure it was chaotic in my head, I think that, you know, the way that I responded to that tournament is the reason that I've finished second and almost won the zozo, finished fourth and almost won Cabo. You know, I, I was looking at the positives and making sure that I didn't do all the negatives based essentially. Man, it's, it's not, I imagine the, that night you're just trying to, trying to second-guess every decision and, uh, you're, right, like you're, you're right there and not sleep. That's probably why I didn't, I was coming off a lot of weeks in a row, then I go straight from winning the Memphis, that's probably why I didn't play well because Monday I was a total zombie. You shoot 75 and that's where we, we just looked at this video. If you're watching on YouTube of what you're working on on the range and this is, that was a face on, I believe this Sunday, uh, before you're fine around where you go out and shoot 63 and just walk us through where you were at on the FedEx Cup and like what you were playing for that week. And I won or I definitely didn't win the Wyndham when I finished second at the Wyndham. I've moved up to, I think 48 FedEx Cup going into Memphis. And so top 50 obviously gets you to BMW and top 50 for a lot, a lot, you're, I don't know what, if you could choose the win or finish top 50, that would be a good question of what you would choose. Um, so I'm 48th, I know what I'm playing for before the start of the week, you gotta be top 50 because that brings everything signature events, opportunity to be top 30 for the tour championship. And so I start the week and like I said, I was, I think I was out of gas, especially coming off the Wyndham. So I shoot 75 in the first round. I'm like almost DFL. I might've even been DFL. And what do you, where's your mind? Are you like, God, didn't I literally, well, it was a great season, played some great golf. Um, you know, I got a month, I got a month to the fall, it's time to get ready for the fall. We got to play all eight events. We got to try and get in that 51 to 60. That's literally what I'm thinking of after that first round. I'm like, cause I, I, when you drop from 48 to what after the first round, probably like 54. Yeah. It's not something like that. And it's more so like, where's everyone else? And so I'm kind of a, I'm probably too much of a realist. It's probably not a good thing. And then I'm thinking of my dad's a math guy. So I'm thinking of all probabilities. So I'm like, oh, the probability of me making top 50 for being almost DFL in Memphis is not very good after the first round. So then I start to think of the fall and got to play all eight events and committing. I'm on links. I'm on my links portal committing to all the fall events and then, but I knew that there was always a chance. I knew there was always, cause, you know, it's not over to the final whistleblowers. And that's something that, you know, my buddies would text me going into the final round. It's like, uh, it's like some sort of meme or something. It's like a Kobe Bryant meme of him and like Celtics Lakers. And he said, it's, it's an interview and people asked him like about winning. And he's like, jobs not finished, I didn't think so. So now my buddy sent me that meme every day on Sunday. And so that's kind of what my buddy sent me after the first round. And I'm like, all right, if I can just slowly claw my way back into this, I can, I can get top 50. But the second, second round, I played great kind of back into the mix a little bit. So now my emotions are, well, I'm playing all the fall and now I'm like, oh, I can be top 50 again. It literally changes like that. You know, it is with all one day changes everything. And then the third round is like very sluggish. So I'm like, all right, well, I got to shoot 63, 64 on this final round. Is it doable? Yes. Is it likely? No. But I'm going to go out and give it, give it everything I got, leave it on the table and unfortunately I came out firing and, you know, the emotions were crazy on that Sunday because you know what you have to do at the start of the day. It's not a final round where you need to try and win and but that other person might be able to jump you or something like that. You know that you know the number is 63, 64, like that is, that is it. That's the only objective. And so you I'm feeling like those final round winning emotions from the first hole. Like you birdie one or two or three and you're like, okay, that's one birdie. So I'm trying to get to X amount of birdies. And then I make this 13th foot on the last hole that I thought I absolutely needed this pot on last hole, thought it was make it or go home and I drained it and that was a great feeling. Turns out I was two shots clear instead of one at the end of the day with how things worked out with the math, right? I was sitting on this 18th hole, 13 feet for par and it's a tough hole. So it's not unreasonable to have something like that. And I drain that pot dead center with a lot with some extra speed because I'm like this, this thing's going in and unfortunately I made it. And then I sat around the table and I've never, I've never, it was an uncomfortable feeling because you're not rooting for anyone else to play bad, but that's kind of the type of situation. Someone has to make a mistake for you to go to the next event. And so I sat there watching the TV and just watching people absolutely crumble on the 18th hole, just out, like, you know, I think Tom Kim, I think Bogie's last year holes, I think Cameron Davis, you know, just a couple guys that kind of fell apart and ultimately I made it by two shots and I was just such a, such a relieving feeling coming off the window. I mean, it was crazy. Yeah. Is there anything that you took from the Windham Championship that you were able to put into practice on that Sunday? Definitely kind of that, you know, jobs not finished mentality until the last whistle blows. And that's something that I'm going to continue to carry with me until literally the last balls in the hole. There's no reason to think about anything other than the shot at hand. And I now carry the ball that I made, that shot at 15 at Windham, that when I hold out from the fair with Wedge, when I got the foreshell lead, I have that ball and I keep it in my quad, my foresight quad bag. So it's with me, basically 24/7 at all times. And so I just keep that as a reminder to just stay present at all times. Wow. That's really cool. Yeah. So I keep that ball with me in my bag. Man, that's awesome. Well, for a player that, you know, I have it one, one's the last time you won a golf tournament. Is this fair question to ask? It's a fair question. Because you've got a lot of, you've finished second a lot of, a lot of times, it seems like. It's like dig. It's kind of a personal dig at me. But that's fine. I have. I know. I'm generally curious because I'm about to, I'm about to set you up for something that's great. So I, I, let's see, I probably like a, like a mini tour event. Yeah. Other than like a smallish mini tour event, I think it was like, I think it was the 20. I never won in college. I finished second in college. I won the, I won the New Jersey amateur Wows in college. New Jersey opened in 2015 Wows in college, but I would finish second in college, finish second twice on corn fairy, finish second three times on the PGA tour. I won a, I won a mini tour event, probably like three years ago, a couple of times, but I mean, these are, I mean, it wins a win, right? Oh gosh. Yeah. Small fields like 30, 30 people, something like that, but a couple, couple of years ago, but that's not, that's not a true feeling. Like the last, last feeling of like, oh wow, I really won a big tournament to what it felt like for me to win, where you kind of get the juices going was that 2015 New Jersey open. Yeah. That's nine years ago. So we're, all right. So looking at all that you just talked about, right? Like how many times you finished inside the top five, the corn fairy tour, you're, you finished the year, gets your PGA tour card finishing night, no wins, your rookie year, you've climbed all the way up inside the top 15, the FedEx cup. And while doing that, your official world golf ranking is inside the top 15 comfortably there. You're 37th in the world. Yeah. So there's, there's so much room for you to even make that jump to getting inside to being a top 20 to the top 15 type of player, do you feel like that's kind of the next step for you? Yeah. It's definitely getting that win and kind of getting that. I mean, when you win, you get all sorts of perks and bonuses and world ranking, you get bonuses too. So you get a lot of points. I'm in very fortunate to be in a great spot and I've got so much opportunity ahead of me. So right now with the off season, it's about putting the sticks away for a little bit. I try to not think about anything at all, I totally detach. So then when I get back into it, I'm energized and ready to go. And basically on, on December 3rd, it's like I'm marking in my calendar, December 3rd is when it's all systems go and it's full grind mode and I really enjoy practicing and stuff like that when I get excited for it. And so then, you know, Maui's going to be a first week of January. I'm in all the signature events. Yep. Men. What's December 3rd? Forgive me. December 3rd is just a day I marked in my calendar. Okay. I didn't know if like you're playing hero or if this was... If Tiger wants to give me a sponsor example and I will come play it. Okay. All right. Noted Tiger. I have the listener of The Smiley Show. Yeah. We know. If you're listening, you know, so is first week of January is kind of that first tournament. I do have the most member member on December 6th, 7th. You said you won that. So what's we had the midi tour wins and we have the member member we won. I didn't matter. Yeah. We've got a few of those, actually, which is great. Great. Yeah. It's a fun, fun event, fun hang. And so I guess that's my first tournament back. And then I'm just really looking forward next year because there's so much opportunity. Obviously 37 in the world according to the people that have ran some numbers. It's looking like the Masters is a guarantee. So that's something that's crazy. I went to Cabo knowing that that was the goal. I basically had a call with my dad ran some numbers, my stats guy ran some numbers. And before Cabo, I wasn't sure if I was going to play. And they said, oh, if you don't play, you're like 96% ish to get into the Masters by December 31st, Top 50. And if you go play and miss the cut, you're like 91 ish percent. So now I've, but if I do play and I play well, I'm 100%. So I've got upside there. So I went, I went and played, I kind of look at everything that way through like a math way. So then I went and played and finished fourth. And now it's looking like a lock. So it's crazy to think that I know where I was a year, two years ago when I had wrist surgery and I basically was thinking maybe golf wasn't for me. And then I'm going to the Masters probably in, in April. So it's just crazy, crazy how life, crazy how life works and everything's going so fast, which is amazing. And I just feel like I have this innate ability to just kind of stay in my lane a little bit. So all the extra stuff around me doesn't really, I don't think about it, it doesn't really bother me. I don't get extra excited or not excited. I'm just, I'm just doing the same thing that I would normally be doing. So just preparing for next year and all the majors and signature events and just really excited to play against the best players in the world. You know, you're getting that opportunity a lot. And have you had an opportunity to play with Rory any? I played with Rory in the 2017 practice round nine holes for the US Open in 2017. So no, I haven't really played Rory. I just ended up being like in the same practice round nine hole group as him. And at that time, that's when I like, that's when I was wearing all Nike. And so like the resemblance between me and Rory was uncanny. And while I was, we walked through the ninth, you know, through the grandson on the ninth hole. Yeah, there it is. Well, if you're watching on YouTube here, we, the only reason why we bring this up is that Amanda, the wife of Charlie, who's the co-host and producer on the show, was watching you play a couple of weeks ago and she's like, I didn't know Rory was playing. It was okay. And Charlie's like, that's not Rory. That's Max Grayserman. And Charlie was like, Oh, wow. And then we did a little like lookalike game the other day and we're like, okay, definitely some resemblance here. I think I used to look way more like him than I do now. But when I was a junior, I was on like the Oakley and junior ambassador program. So they would send me free clothes. And so that's when Rory was wearing Oakley. So I would get it all the time then. And then coming out of college, I wore Nike for two years. And so that was when I was getting a full, full board. And so I've been asked for autographs, I've been asked at the airport, this and that and all that stuff. And at the U.S. Open, we walked through the grandsons on the nightfall and everyone's there and everyone knows Rory's coming. I walked through first. He was still practicing. I walked through first and everyone's screaming, Rory, Rory, sign this, sign this. I'm like, now guys, Rory's back there. That's so great because there is a uncanny resemblance between you two. I actually think if you, there's another picture where if you just go from like the nose up is where like I really see the resemblance between you two. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, never bad to be compared to Rory when it comes to anything holding a golf club. Yeah. The good thing. Yeah. Well, buddy, I appreciate your time, man. This was great to go in depth with, you know, how this year's been, how your golf come up has been and we appreciate you taking the time. We're looking forward to, you know, seeing the start of the year for you, but also, hey, watching you at Augusta and most likely all the other majors this year. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for having me and I'll see you. Where are you going? You're going to be at Maui or? I will be at both. So I'll see you there. Hopefully you showed me a screenshot of a picture, maybe a couple of fish you called out out at sea in Jupiter or maybe even a member, a trophy, a medalist. So we'll, hopefully you got some things to show me on the phone. Sounds good. I'm out. See you, buddy. Cheers. Thanks. All right. Support for this podcast comes from Progressive, a leader in RV insurance. We've all made RVing mistakes like not pestproofing the RV for winter, but there's one mistake you shouldn't make. Not ensuring your travel trailer. Progressive RV insurance can protect your travel trailer when your auto or home insurance can. Get a quote at progressive.com, progressive cash routine insurance company and affiliates. In bad calls and intense rivalries, there's enough distress about on game day. Keep your mind on the field and off your body odor with Dove men plus care whole body deodorant available at Walmart. Dove men whole body deal provides all day auto protection from your pits, privates to feed from pregame analysis to halftime insights to unexpected over times. Dove men whole body deal gives you confidence that lasts all day, pick it up at your local Walmart.
Max Greyserman joins Smylie Kaufman to discuss his journey to the PGA Tour and the challenges he faced along the way, from injuries and an extended stay on the Korn Ferry Tour to his current position - the 37th-ranked player in the world, and qualified for 2025 PGA TOUR signature events.
