I Came With Fire
"Safe Space Soldiers" with Amber Smith
Going on everybody welcome back to I came a fire podcast tonight. We are here a special guest former US Army helicopter pilot amber smith also It is yeah, Zach's got the same last name But author of two books currently this one is about the drug leader this month unfit to fight I really appreciate you sending me out a copy really good book read your other one a while back and Yeah, I just want to introduce yourself to everybody and tell us a little bit about who you are and yeah Sure, thank you guys for having me it's great man podcast with you. I'm a former OH 50 delta I will wear your helicopter pilot. I kind of a long time ago, so during the early stages of Iraq and Afghanistan and Was in the 101st Airborne Division did deployments to Iraq in 2006 and then at pianist and oh eight to oh nine and You know started out as the Just pilots ran out of high school went to Fort Rucker and then worked my way up to piloting command and then eventually air mission commander and Real quick for people who aren't familiar with a Kiowa It's a light attack reconnaissance helicopter. It only has two seats One for the pilot what one for the co-pilot. We carry 50 Cal machine gun rocket pods sometimes if we want to have health fires we can have the weapons configured it for that and What we do our mission is what is kind of unique in the aviation community is we are Very low-level direct support for the ground forces. So absolutely elite any friendly force on the ground infantry special operations Marines NATO forces We worked a lot with the Afghan National Army and then the Iraq Army as well But we look for IEDs we do convoy security We do artillery as well Hey, hey, there it is. Yes Love that air you can see waving I definitely have been been there done that exact situation, but you can see and that photo just how low level we fly yeah, and It was an incredible aircraft. You know we were sort of not as advanced you could say as Maybe like the Apache, which is what everybody was in love with but we prided ourselves on being able to sort of take off and with anything like no other requirement other than a grid of frequency and a call sign and be able to like Launch in seven minutes and get out to the ground guys who are in a firefight so we can get out there and help them So that was sort of my army days after that I got into the world of communications and defense and that's sort of national security and Have been doing that for a very long time In 2017 I served as the deputy assistant to the sanitary of defense at the Pentagon also in public affairs and then In the meantime wrote a book as you mentioned danger close is a memoir about my side in the military and then My new book and then to fight will be out big more for you. Yeah, no, this is really good Honestly, there's honestly a lot of the things that you talk about in the book or things that Zach and I have had Conversations about on the podcast and with some of the other guests that we we've had as well So excited to have you on because I've been wanting to talk about this like at length with somebody for a while I got out at 15 years a lot of reasons for that. I'll made the decision not to finish the last Five years of my career and retired For a lot of the reasons that you discuss in your book The vid and the shot were another big reason why but Anyway, yeah You were not a helicopter pilot your whole life you flew your whole family really right and then you know You got into helicopters later in life and you're trying to join the army That that was pretty cool cool to learn about you But I want to start the the the conversation off with some facts here that I gathered Roughly 20% of the fighting force in the United States is is obese, which is crazy And this is this is a statistic from the American security project org as a white paper published in October of 2023 So the duty spends 1.5 billion dollars annually to fight obesity. Have you seen that number before? Yes, yes, they're they're trying to take like drastic measures right now to Sort of you know curb that problem, but also with recruiting as well. Yeah, yeah So um in that vein, right? So the United States Air Force this year actually is not going to meet its goal for recruiting Which is what like the first time and what oh my god, they're almost 30 years. Right? 1991 I think was the last time you didn't meet some more than 30 years. Yeah, that's insane So what they did I'm just gonna to quote some of this stuff because actually we have some good friends and other podcasts One the ones ready podcast. I'm sure if you've you've heard about them a couple of Air Force special operators good friends of ours But they were just talking about this on their their podcast and I'm just so I'm just giving them some credit Not trying to steal what they were saying about it But um one of the points they made is that the the Air Force essentially panicked That's what I was gonna say that they had said but that they panic and lowered the standard For people who come in and the BMI their BMI so essentially their size right body mass index and that This is all part of what you're talking about the whole I mean unfit to fight right both physically and mentally and some of the other things that we'll get into in your book But I don't think that's a good look as well I know Zach doesn't and that this is something this is just speaks to a bigger problem because there's a lot of gaslighting that the DoD does try to say that we're not lowering standards Just as lethal as we've ever been where the world's most lethal fighting force Meanwhile people don't want to commit and people don't want to stay in which is a bigger it which is an issue that's just as big that doesn't get as much attention and The the fact that we're lowering the standard even more to try to bring people in is is pretty bad my opinion So I just kind of wondering what you're if you're probably aware of that just given your The you're kind of laying you're in but what you think about that in general good man in different You know like lowering the standard Will always lead to failure. So when you lower the standard The mission standard stays the same the mission standard isn't being reduced along with a fighting force that can't keep up because of those weight standards and other standards physical standards Ability to complete their jobs and why why those standards exist in the first place so it's setting up the force to once again have a Certain population like you said 20% is obese. I think you said So that means that 80% is gonna have to pick up some of the weights that that 20% is dropping them all on and What does that do that? damages morale it breaks like unit cohesion and trust among the team because they see it the people who are working there every single day understand that You can have whatever four-star general go testifying capital Hill, but guess what the ones who are working every single day Operationally they get that they're the ones having to pick up the slack. Well, they go tell People on the hill about how great things are and paint a rosy picture about things in the military So lowering the standard is always going to break down many different areas in the military And this is really been happening for years though when it comes to some of the standards I will say that I feel like it's like fast-tracked all of a sudden like it like we're seeing with These this like recruitment crisis and this like sort of ongoing retention crisis that's happening the word you used was they're kind of panicking and I think that's a great way to describe it because they Still need to get those numbers and so what do they do when they can't it's well We're going to reduce we're going to reduce those standards to get people in or keep people in a region new demographic that wasn't allowed before because because the Air Force I do believe also just came out with Was it the body fat composition for people? I'm trying to remember the exact numbers like for women. It was like a significant increase and then same with men as well I'm not going to say that you can like be ticked for to join that for men. I believe it was I want to say it was 17% and then they increased it to 20% and then for women I thought it was like 19 or 20 in the increase. It's like 24 No, I think the women's now is in the 30s and I think the men is like mid 20s. Yeah, it was like fire for us It's cut. It's crazy like yeah I don't know the exact number, but it was like something that it was kind of like Really? Like those are the links we're going to now like we're not increasing it by one or two So yeah, it's just it's it's setting up the force for failure and Mission-wise like being able to accomplish a mission. It's gonna create a camera I have your weight I have your burden for those who are meeting the standards who are there because they want to serve their country and You know work hard to meet those standards They're the ones who are gonna suffer because of it So in the past definitely was 20% for men 28% for women. It is now 26% for men and 36% for women That's insane Yeah, so one of 8% for women and 6% for men Which is kind of weird because they they increased like the you're allowed body fat like matrix percentage or whatever, but the Air Force For what was like the last like? Six-ish years you didn't have to tape on your AOP t-test so that wasn't a thing anymore But then the year they implement that you can be fatter to join they re-implemented the tape So like this is the year that they re-implemented to be taped every year. Yeah, that doesn't make sense So you're gonna let the fat people in but then you're gonna punish the fat people currently in the names It just shows you how well the Air Force thinks Not exactly the smartest branch even though we advertise ourselves to be you know But yeah, no, but I can exactly what you're talking about it making it harder on people in the unit Because let's let's be honest like in every unit there are a smart small amount of people who do the majority of the work Anyway, right and then there are people who really don't even belong there And then there are the people the largest larger portion or the people that show up and they just do their job And they go home, which is totally fine. Yeah, I meet standard they go But I've seen this firsthand what you're talking about and it made my I so I became an NCO really early on in my career So I spent the majority of my career as an NCO. I got out as an e6 and So I was supervising people Almost the majority of my career. I also came in later in life as well as 23 when I enlisted But one of the things that you've said in the book is that even in the past 10 years the military is Unrecognizable from what it was a decade ago and that is that is so true And I read that I was like man like I'm glad somebody else is saying this because it is true And I can really mostly speak on what I saw in the Air Force but you know you will probably remember the the whole just debacle at basic training with the TIs and You know the lines you're crossing with with the trainees and all that stuff and just in typical military fashion The knee jerk reaction to change all this stuff and for me, right? And that's where I really saw the biggest change almost immediately Because the the way they were training people was had dropped very very bad and you could see it when they were coming to installation and they didn't know certain things they should have already You know, there's the discipline and then the the military bearing wasn't there and that's just the beginning, right? And so sort of this slow motion train wreck over the past 15 years That I was in saw this happen But to your point about it making it harder on people as I was getting out a lot of this I guess the the mental health issue, but then the abusing of the mental health system within the military really really through a lot of roadblocks in the way of apps actually like discipline and You know being an NCO and holding people to a standard and making sure people do their job Chain of command completely went away for me last year. This is a problem that you know I have discussed with some of my other friends who are still in and essentially what it is is a Lot of this younger generation coming in they don't really understand or see the military as something that isn't just a job It may as well just be Walmart, right? And the military is fostering that idea in my opinion of that it's okay and you know sat in you know Wean commander all calls which is a base commander for the Air Force and he's saying you know to us as NCOs a senior And she says hey, it's okay that they think this way And it's okay if they they don't want to commit the way you committed not that long ago and seems like So yeah, be recruiting the Air Force currently teaches the recruiters not to Chip Ryan drawing news about time right 2011 my recruiter was still talking about like patriotism and having a higher corpus and You know go ahead and go fight the bad guys all sudden stuff in today It's nothing about that at all. It's about hey come do this for us for four to six years And we'll give you your college education or hey come do this for four weeks years and you'll have a state paycheck every versus 15 There's not we don't sell patriotism. We don't sell You know like fatherhood or sisterhood. We don't sell camaraderie. It's just not a thing that's pushed at all because it doesn't speak to the current demographic that we're trying to put in a stick if I go to a school and I'd preach a join to you know defender country join to you know Stand side-by-side with your brothers and sisters join to be part something bigger go now I'll go work for Taco Bell or I'll sit. I'll go play Xbox or I'll go to something else because that doesn't interest me but if I say hey come join and I'll give you a 10k bonus and I'll pay for your call and so go. Oh sweet but that same person isn't going to See the person is going to show up and do the mirror minimum and probably less than the minimum because they know that Once they're in they can't just be fired like it takes a long time to get someone out all those type of stuff So that's that's how we recruit today though is we're not recruiting Patriots for recruiting numbers and it it feels like this is across the board except Except the Marines the Marines the recruiters that I saw I will say that they are still varied by the standard And they will fail making goal like they're recruiting numbers ever single time because it doesn't meet their standard Like it's very rarely actually changed things, but the other way that it happened. Yeah, the other branches though are more worried about quantity over quality The Air Force would much rather just meet the number Than to have quality members in their in their force yeah, I think that that's super interesting what I heard you describe as the contrast of sort of the older Post-9/11 generation of veterans you could say versus what what we have today is that which I am like I'm a veteran that served You know after 9/11 and that like wave of patriotism and how the country like actually came together for a little bit and People were like not on my watch You know what I mean? And people were like I'm gonna protect my country and I'm gonna do my part and so many people rose up and wanted to serve like even people that you know maybe wouldn't have um and so and I do write about that in my book about how the military that I served in doesn't exist anymore and I Think that that's so interesting to hear it from you guys which are more of a more recent generation of veteran That is saying that like no, they're bringing people in who don't have that like foundational purpose, which is love of country and wanting to protect our freedoms and liberties that we get to enjoy every single day as Americans and protect our way of life for future generations like you've probably seen like all the Instagram videos that it's like, you know a conglomeration of why did you join the military so like all these young guys that are serving and And of course they're all edited, but it's just like nobody talks about when to serve my country I want to like it's all like it's all very negative honestly is like how I is how it seems like People are saying. I don't know. Why am I here? This is like it's just like very very negative which is sad for me and it's sad for someone who like Loves the military and what it did for me and It's sad to see what it has become because I think most people who have served in the military are grateful for their service and the Skills that they learned like the priceless leadership experiences that they have that you can't find anywhere else And then the people that they serve with like it's it's just it's an experience that you will never have You will never find anywhere else in your life and that goes for the good the bad and the ugly which you will experience all of and I and so yes, I am Quite concerned and it's actually happening. So I'm I it's like a valid concern That those patriotic Americans the ones that traditionally are the ones who are Pursuing the military as a path after high school or college or whatever are saying like I'm seeing now in the age of social media I'm seeing what the modern-day military is all about and it's not what I thought it was and so I'm gonna find a different path Which is reflected in the recruitment numbers and you run up the Marines it's because the Marines still recruit on getting your ass kicked and having to be a tough guy and going and kicking the enemies ass and winning and You know accomplishing the mission and I think that that toughness and that grit is like what's missing from the military these days Like the military is not college. The military isn't working at Walmart. The military is not a nine to five job And so I I think that it's being sold as a comparison and it's not Yes, exactly what I need so I was a comparison and in the in the in the four years So three years of my four years aren't Korean actually actively recruited because the last year had a baby And then also was a 10th first sergeant so I didn't do much for Korea for my last year But in those three years I put 76 new airmen in the air force of those 76 I would argue 70 of them were born after 9/11 like they didn't see it. They weren't alive when it happened Yeah, so they don't have that Like they learn about it in a textbook right to them. It's just oh it's history of Of those guys. It's not my history. It's not something I should know Right and that was like our last real National almost like unity experience And so all of these kids who are growing up That were not that were born after 9/11 and never experienced it like they were like nothing But like turmoil and like separation between their own Americans. Yeah, it's all the experience And there's something I actually know what I'm meant to bring up is about two years ago There was a giant like Air Force recruiting conference and the general of Air Force Korean service and the chief for all there And you're allowed to like ask questions and I stood up and I asked I said In the 90s in the early 90s The Air Force didn't make goal But that was also to try and win the US military and just the US in general didn't have an enemy like we the Cold War have just ended We weren't fighting like terrorism like a widespread or anything. So like there wasn't like a conan person or entity or group to funnel patriotism or Service towards I asked do you think that's coming in soon because we just ended the global war on terror I know we're shifting towards like China or life war peer-to-peer enemies, but it's not happening now It's just like a future maybe or a future. What if? So I asked I said, you know literally dealing to Find a common enemy or find a common like push and of course the Two-star general this gave me two-star general answers. Yeah, but well, thank you for your question there certain Smith Yada yada yada didn't answer the question and just said, you know, keep keep finding good airmen. So I never got answered, but I Feel like they should be thinking that or I hope our leadership would be thinking of that There's currently not a unity event. There's not a tribe. There's not An enemy there's not something to rally the troops for so the only way to rally them is through incentives Which is oh for your college will give you a sick Camaro will do this. It's not well Here's the thing you're talking about a unifying event right in like 9/11 In your spot on amber about just the way that these these Aaron think it's that and I've said it before They will tell you flat out that they don't like the United States I've heard that come out of the mouths of of airmen and and I've heard them, you know Don't I don't care to be here, you know, I shouldn't have done this, etc And it's more than just you know, you're typical e4 bitching at the planning about, you know Sure, but I would say this too, right and you're the unifying going by the unifying event thing They've grown up in a United States where they were really taught to at the United States is bad and that socially everything we are as a people is bad that we are the wrong that is in the world and that That's essentially what they've been bombarded with their entire lives And so a they're not joining for any sort of sense of patriotism because they didn't grow up with that the way I did I mean like that was active to you. He was retired I was I grew up on base my whole life I was in Japan when 9/11 happened, you know, so I mean that that's been my experience my whole life but most of these kids they don't have anything like that they actually have the exact opposite and So when they come in the military has done a really good job as well of killing that culture And I always say this too that the the Air Force is not good at its own history or its own culture in any way shape or form You go ask a Marine with the Marine Corps birthday. They'll tell you they know they know Most airmen can't tell you that most airmen can't tell you about some of the you know, the I know who chesty puller is, right? but did most airmen know who you know pit some every pit some hits and bargain is or you know Seniorman Levital like these are people that are like famous or Billy Mitchell. These are famous in like Air Force history They don't know right this there's not a culture of that And that is something that other services are better at but the military has Sort of shot it was not sort of it actually absolutely has shot itself in the foot with that culture. They Have recognized I think that these these kids haven't grown up with the same thing that you grew up with amber, right? And that I grew up with there's no love of country anymore So like he says that they have to sell them on on the shiny things that can come in Yeah, but when they're in you would think right? Okay. Well, maybe in the same with this this whole BMI thing Well, we'll get them in and then we'll get them in shape and then we'll be okay And I've heard that right this problem for quote-unquote tomorrow me right tomorrow me will fix this problem when when they're it and They haven't done anything to do that. There is no instilling You know dedication. There's no instilling discipline. There is none of that I mean I literally I've mentioned this conversation a few times on our on our podcast that one of the last Conversations that have one of the worst senior NCO's I have met in the military was my job as an NCO is not to enforce standards It's to make sure that the airman want to reenlist and I told her I said that is not my job Am I not my job is not to make them want to reenlist? You know then and I we can recap this the whole conversation But that that is what they want is is Playcation to keep the copacetic so they want to stay in but they don't have to there's no expectation of work There's no expectation of hardship And go figure the kids that want to come in and they want to be challenged because oh my god Imagine that human human beings want challenges, right? They go to you know, maybe the Marine Corps or something like that They don't serve and you will the people that do come in but for the most part they see this they see the lies about the vid Mandate they see the lies about lethality they see lowering your lowering standards And one of the calls of the military is being a part of an elite group of people being a part of something bigger than yourself Something tougher than yourself coming out better on the other end And when you're you take all of these tents of the military and you face them outwards and you say hey We're not doing this anymore. What's the appeal, right? What's the appeal to this generation of 18 to 22 year olds to come in for anything other than it is a job So that is what their behavior is because that's what they've been sold on they have not been sold on the camaraderie the discipline the dedication The honor the integrity they've not been sold on that at all. So what do you expect, right? Yeah, I mean, that's that's what you get when what that's what you're fishing for if that makes sense, right? It does. Yeah, well, it's not The scary part about all of this is that like bigger picture is that it's not sustainable and we Absolutely have a crisis of leadership in the military right now where they have an issue with living in reality and telling the truth and it is out of fear of Their own reputation their own job their own promotion schedule And so you have situations like you just described a culture, right? It's become a culture in the military That is, you know, not pro America not sort of like one of the army core values is selfless service and That's that's like not on the forefront anymore. Like you said, it's like what is it? What are you gonna give me? What are you gonna give me because that's why I'm here. You you're supposed to give me things And so you have the military who is very a big fan of investigating itself So when all of these things when when the recruitment numbers aren't met They investigate themselves and say what what's the problem here and that goes back to the crisis of leadership where they Refuse to live in the reality. That is All of this woke culture this focusing on anything and everything Except for the mission and what it takes to get there readiness training all of that and you are bogging down You know just like layer upon layer of everything except Focusing on the mission. We're seeing that in our aviation right now. It's just we can link it into but it's it's the It's the issue with like leadership not being realistic And so when you have like people who may bring it up, you know fearful of retaliation They learn once or guess what they have their mentor, you know, say an o5 brings up like hey We've got a culture problem in this unit like none like these younger Like lower level are Like this is the culture that that they think You know the military is all about these days and the the o6 to says to the o5 like hey I hear you but like make sure you don't bring that up when we go to this meeting and like tell people what's actually happening and Then it gets like all the way up to the Pentagon level where guess what the the Political appointee positions They are a limited period So like they have a limited time there and so they just want to kick the decan down the road They're not there to solve a problem And so it's this like vicious cycle of like oh, yeah, it's really bad But that's the next person's problem Exactly like I was saying that problem for tomorrow me and these are the same people that when they get out They go to the next stop job. They'll make that excuse like you like you said And then they'll get on Facebook five years later and make the comment about how like oh well when I was in command Or when I was serving it wasn't like that and we didn't do that and this wasn't you know The way it was and it was tough for when I was in Even though, you know, you're a part of the problem and help create the problem by kicking the can down the road And the really the overall problem you're talking about is accountability Which is definitely a theme that you touch on quite a bit in your book you try to provide some really good examples Lloyd Austin General Millie and then one of the things they always been asked you if you could for our listeners Give us a rundown about the situation with the Senate Colonel Sheller because one of the book The points you made in your book is that he's the only person that has met any sort of It's not even in JP. He was been punished for What he did and speaking out against the way the Afghanistan draw down and pull out happened But he's the only person that's been held accountable for anything right even though what he was being held accounted for is not Doesn't have anything to do with the draw out. It's his criticism of the the draw But I was wondering if you could go and into what happened with him and and the way you described it in the book Yeah, so Colonel Schiller's story is, you know, we all watched the the Chaos of the Afghanistan Withdrawal which turned into the evacuation and I think for Veterans active duty or you know, got people have gotten out Who watched that who spent years of their lives who had their friends killed terribly wounded like Works with the Afghan partners there Like devoted a significant chunk of their life to that country So when that withdrawal happened, I think a lot of people felt betrayed and Then to hear senior leaders and the president talk about how it was a success and How they did no wrong how they killed 10 civilians and said it was a righteous strike and really tried to hold on to the narrative that I Mean it's almost like impressive that they were trying to get away with that narrative like that's it's unreal that they tried to take that and one with it and they It wasn't until you know, the New York Times Report came out that they were like actually this was an aid worker and his family and the secondary explosion was a propane tank That was parked next to the explosion that happened That they finally had to come clean about it But ever since then it has just been denial and talking points and backtracking into so so People saw that veterans saw that and we're deeply affected by that and we're human beings. That's like an emotional thing that it stirred up in most people that I know that served there for me as well and And and that just like added to it, but with with Colonel Schiller's specific story is he was a lieutenant colonel in the Marine Corps was like on track to he was like stellar performer great officer had a bright career in front of him and he couldn't believe what he saw and he was so disappointed in leadership and he made a video that he posted online and it went viral and You want to know what he did he told the truth is what he did Which is why it went viral because people were like, yes Thank you for someone saying this because everybody else is not telling the truth And so of course they absolutely threw the book at him charged him with username action, which she was You know found guilty of and fine and and So it's just it actually is no one to this day has been held accountable for the actions in Afghanistan for the entire war or The withdrawal which resulted in the evacuation and so he was punished for speaking out About how the withdrawal was handled You know and it was I mean He had you know his colleagues being like what like But it was like not everybody would do that and I do think that the military saw Him speaking out publicly the way he did and I think they saw him as an extreme threat Which is why they you know did everything they could absolutely shut him down Yeah, absolutely I mean it just goes back to to what you were saying before About 9/11 and in the unity thing if we were to go back and show Americans that scene that played out there at HKIA, right? On September 12th 2001 and said hey all of what you saw yesterday and everything we're about to do everything you're gonna see for the next 20+ years This is how it's going to end right? This is how all of this this patriotism We're all feeling all these American flags that everybody has now. This is how it's going to end every I don't think I think that people would look at you like your full shit I don't think they believe it because it would be it would I mean it was a shock to me right the way that that happened I wasn't there when that happened Zach and I know a few people who were there And then the aftermath of dealing with the the people that we did evacuate and those camps that were set up Different places around the world on Air Force bases and and such But I think we would be disgusted and I know we'd be disgusted to see that that's how it ends and it goes Deeper into the whole accountability thing and the in the lying and saying that this is this is not this is okay Everything is fine here. It's like that meme of the dog saying at the table where the everything is on fire around him This is this is fine, right? This is the age of the cell phone This is the age of social media everybody knows your full shit and we're sick and tired of hearing that Everything is okay, and this just you know further fuels that fire that you know reason why people don't want to join the military More and maybe instead of lowering the standard like saying okay, you know I'm not that not that there is a large line of fat people wanting to enter the military right Zach Because I don't think you you probably didn't see that many people knocking on your door to come in Instead of lowering the standard ones that are fed if they're like committed they usually come back like steam ready to go like yeah, I don't have to I don't have to like Work them really hard. I usually hey, you don't meet it come down to this and we'll talk Yeah, they want to fix that on so okay there. Yeah, I I lost 60,000 in the military if I was that was me. I was that fact it I walked in occurs. Obviously. Yeah. Oh, yeah I mean this is all beer and stupid shit in college and getting out of college, so 11 piece we're not I 11 the that Afghanistan would draw what annoys me about that too is a lot of like Leadership positions that were like in charge of it. They all got like recognized for like a job Who don't plug a job job? Well done? They got like metals They were like oh it was amazing And I know that like the official air force like still to this day like touts it as those largest like airlift In like a modern history or something and it's like it's like a talking point. It's like a thing that It's brought up. It looks like the Berlin airlift. Yeah, because it's a World's grace Air Force was I was like yeah, you were great at dropping locals off your aircraft 17s as they're falling It's because it it is so Political like the defense has become so it used to pride itself on being in a political institution like some they argue of course. Yeah, okay, never is but they it used to mean something I feel like and it has straight so far from that to the point where like it's not they don't try to hide it anymore and So now what happens is when there's a mistake when there's a failure? They circle the wagon and they will never admit failure even when it comes to people's lives and like Even when it comes to like it is very rare for a general to be fired for performance so you might see like I don't know some like sort of like Helpful behavior like like conduct and becoming type behavior And somebody may get fired for that but like you look back to like World War two The generals that served then they were given a couple months on if you couldn't perform on the battlefield if you couldn't we'll results it wasn't Personal it was just guess what that's not where we need you to be so you're out and we're gonna bring somebody else in Yeah, and they would get fired from their leadership position So like fast forward to the Vietnam era is when I feel like it started to get like significantly like more Political in terms of you know, oh when a general does something wrong the entire public is paying attention now That's not just people aren't just attaching a bad performance and job to this individual general Now they're attaching it to the army or the military as a whole So guess what? We're just gonna sweep it under the rug and we're just gonna allow that bad leader to continue leading troops and And that is how like the culture then evolved was the military became worried about their PR like image and They and it has only gotten worse over the decades and you like like take what I said and now apply it to Afghanistan and that's exactly what happened They would never admit in part of my book. I like have an entire page where I list quotes from generals like commanders ice half commanders in Afghanistan or generals of in different jobs who testified in front of Congress About how great the war was going about how Phenomenal the Afghan army was and how they could stand on their two feet and how they didn't even need the US military anymore and You know, you even have General Millie right before the Taliban rolls into Kabul being like They're not taking Kabul like our intel cells. Otherwise, this is this is a hundred like whatever their numbers were in terms of how many hundreds of thousands of Afghan army forces and what do we have like tens of thousands of Taliban, you know, like the cockiness and the egos of Not knowing what is going on on the ground like I am so like The people who get to the level where they just sit in Washington DC and they have not a clue what is going on So the the general officer core the flag officers like the Disconnect with the reality of combat on the ground is just absolutely broken The two is the like the rate in which these leaders just get cycled through So I don't know if it's the exact same in the army, but typically commanders only in command for like two years one to two years usually and Anything that they did or whatever. They're not going to see the fruits of their mistakes or their successes It's going to be the next commander, but then what's the next commander gets in? They have to show progressive performance. They have to show that they're improving the unit or that they're, you know big key things better so then they change things up all over again and I sense the pictures of what I saw on Facebook today and it was about security forces in general, which was an Air Force job basically the military police cops military police of the Air Force and they were talking about how oh, they're going to change up the whole curriculum for our MOS school or tech school to allow us to be better equipped for our future adversaries and stuff and They they post this like if you look back at the Korean stuff he's your post is every like two to three years and it's always a cry after some new like commander takes over and it's all like fluff and Yeah, they'll change something because that colonel's got to get a star. So he's got to show that oh look I did enough to take my My little little eagles so I can get my star. Thanks It's just crushing me and I just cause confusion because then you have Global generations of security forces member. So like I went through in 2011 2012 Brandon went in what two three years right before me right Brandon Yeah, I don't know how to listen. Yeah, so if you would it took him and took me we knew probably Similar but completely different things about security forces and then you take an airman two three years after I went through and they're gonna know something really different too so then you just do the discombobble mess of People who aren't even learning the same things and you're expecting them to now be a cohesive team a cohesive sure it when they're just fully distracted and it's The commanders who are like in charge of the retreat of Afghanistan or the leaders then They're not in those positions anymore there. They wouldn't be part of the next retreat or whatever. So it's like a You can't really hold anyone accountable anymore because they've been moves and if they were bad at it They get shuffled into some like back office of the Pentagon for a couple years until they're Forgot how crappy they were and then they put back into another command position. It's just they just shuffle If I can make a final point on both both of what you guys guys are talking about In amber in your book the one of the things that came to mind is when you were writing about general Austin when he was still general general Austin and I'm I'm just gonna quote your book professor. So I don't miss miss quote but September 2015 testimony for a Congress Zero Austin admitted that the military program that was supposed to instruct and it put moderate Syrian rebels for five 54 hundred fighters the first year six months into the program and after a cost a cent comma 42 million Only trained 54 fighters when Austin was questioned in Congress about how many of those 54 had actually remained active He replied it's a small number But the let's see before revealing that the small number was only four or five people and that 42 million tax dollars We're spent to train four or five people when it was supposed to be fifty four hundred and then Him getting chewed out by John McCain later in the chapter - I thought that was but that is just putting a finer point on what you said About the accountability and now now he is the the secretary of defense But you know so his lack of accountability still showing when he can't even tell The president where he's at when he's being being treated or seen for cancer either, right? So People of Failing up, right? It is failing up exactly and like you said, you know, you were talking about Zach and the accountability keys you discussed Ranger school in the book as well and and seemingly pushing through of Female Rangers, right and how they were questioned about an ask for documentation later that it was this essentially was destroyed All the documentation that had gone into it Was not so maybe you could expand on that a little bit I'm trying to recall what you were talking about exactly But essentially the the females that were going through Ranger school were given extra opportunities Which is again a microcosm of everything you talked about in your book about you know falling standards and and all of that so yeah, so when The first female Rangers went through there was a quite a controversy around it because many Rangers people Ranger instructors Were all were complaining about what they saw and sort of the double standards and the Increased opportunity, I guess you could say with sort of the programs that they were pushed into prior to Where when some of the when men were allowed to do these sort of like pre-programs If they failed they were out. They didn't get to press and then go on to register Well, they were done till never their next time was where women were pushed through until They made it And then got their opportunity to actually attempt to try Ranger school and then two ended up Graduating in August of 2015 now Congressman Steve Russell from Oklahoma he is a as a Ranger himself and because of the allegations around sort of some special treatment and General Miller who was In charge down there at the time and the allegations that these women were passing and then he went and watched them on the course And then suddenly they all got you know a pass or got to proceed he requested to see all of the documentation and the records like you said and Received, you know, he was actually ignored for a little bit and then when he pushed them on the issue Discovered that the records. Yeah, I've been destroyed right to that typical. Yeah, nothing that I wouldn't expect anyway DEI right diversity equity and inclusion is a main theme in your book For for those who are listening. Can you just give why you feel like DEI is Essentially poison to the to the military and in really any any sort of structure that wants to have a meritocracy in general, right? Not just the military. Well, DEI Destroids the meritocracy of the military, which is what makes the military so amazing like that foundational like like that is what allows the military to be what it is DEI absolutely destroys that in equity over equality these more like well You know, you can't say quotas in The military and recruitment you guys know that but so now they just say targets They they just like find these loopholes in these way to say well Like we're gonna these are and and they're bold about it. That's why you say is that there is this is something that they're trying to hide Like you So anyway back to like DEI is divisive in a force that requires teamwork unit cohesion Unity and and purpose and mission focus it it destroys that trust Like like you said when we were when we were previously talking about the obesity standards being lowered or the weight standards that percentage being that That that creates animosity and Same, you know, I experienced it as well where women have a different physical standard guess what once again We have the same mission standard. Why why is it different for me because? Like it's there should be mission standards because once again, there's like Yes, men and women are different, but that does not mean that the mission cares the enemy doesn't care The mission doesn't care if you don't have the physical strength and ability required to Accomplish the mission then it doesn't matter if you're a man or a woman We want the people who can do it to be in those job positions And so what you see with like DEI is like, oh, let's have diversity targets where suddenly, you know your pilots have to be a certain percentage Asian a certain percentage black they've like come out with memo saying that they think like the Air Force Pilots are there the number of white men is too high. Um, and so they want to diversify those numbers and then Marine Corps counterpart recruiters they would They would like be talking to me and they would say we have like four dudes who we could put in Today, but we can't because we have to put in one girl before we can put those four dudes in that's fucking bullshit Yeah, yeah, they're like Give me give can't even meet our goal this month You know, we know we could with these four dudes we'd over produce also like so bad for women because guess what like for Women who can meet the standard who want to be there for the right reasons who want a fair shot Now guess what every what they walk in and everyone's saying like oh, are you there's a diversity? That's walking in because yeah, are you the diversity higher like are we gonna? Are we gonna have to like pick up your slack because you know, they brought you in because they needed a female? It's like you're very true about how the mission stand the mission standard is a change like Brandon's on my we met She doesn't 19 to point it and there's a handful of airmen while I had deployment if I knew like shit hit the fan they're going to be a Problem to meet executing the mission and I'm going to have to take care of them or not trust them at all When shit hit the fan It's just annoying Street because you know like we're both NCO's and the There was one airman in particular who had to have gone through pre-deployment training Then had to go through like security forces training and then get there and then one day I just asked if they could load a 240 and they couldn't do it Yeah, we should just like I said thanks great and you're the one who's on my heavy gun You now sit in the back seat and someone else you're talking about that too is that the team that we were there with was the team Before that when this is and this is public information right now So camp Simba are you familiar with the attack that happened there and can you get camp Simba? What year? This is 2020 early 2020 when this happened in January 20 for you Yeah, it was a huge investigation that the Air Force did essentially because the Air Force was responsible for the security out there This is a an airfield that actually wasn't on an installation is on the middle of the jungle here in Kenya, right? And security forces members who are out there providing security and there was some support from like the the Kenyan Defense Force But you were talking about one or two people, okay? And the team after us after we rotated out They they got attacked and the Air Force security forces members who are out there either treated or hid behind cover the entire time that that happened and the green berry ODA and the Afsad guys that were out there they went out off camp Simba and went and especially repelled the attack from from Al Shplov, right? So this which I think is ironic that Zach gives you that info from that story because Even the team after that right they didn't do what they were supposed to do They pulled the security job from the Air Force and gave it to the Army So, I mean, I don't know what it looks like there now But I know there's a lot of different and it's it's it's not the same as it was before But I think that that has a lot to do too with the some of the things that we're talking about here is I Just when I was in airman There's absolutely no way I and I believe this is my core that the airman that I was in the military with at the same time Would not have turned around and ran or wouldn't have hid behind PFP or a tower and we've returned fire would have done those things and I think that it is I think it's an example of just the type of people that The military is bringing in nowadays that that that happened You know the Air Force does have it's not as rich of a culture as the army and the Marine Corps or whatever of service and combat We do have our combat roles, but security forces, you know played a big part of Vietnam and some other things But it's just it is I think it just is that is a microcosm of what we're talking about And that this is exactly the kind of people that are coming in and these are the people that sit behind a DFP and don't return fire These are the kinds of people that retreat And I think that to your points Like of the type of people they're bringing in and how the military then feels like they have to accommodate them all those is like We talked about the D and the E the diversity and the equity like now the inclusion is like Well, we have to make sure we're using everybody's proper cronyons Like to the point where the Navy has said that they will like pursue more persecution if you personally use the wrong pronoun That they're going to these like extreme measures to change creeds and mottos and songs You know and you know like really like getting rid of tradition and Changing the way awards can be written like the Air Force tried to say that you couldn't use airmen anymore and Yeah, and so they're like going to these like Like extreme measures to make everyone feel included like they want like even to the point of like artwork They're like oh does our artwork like reflect enough Is it making everyone feel included by the artwork that's in the hallways in the office? Yes, you were it's so funny to say because I literally had a conversation about that with some of my squadron leadership one time But yeah, yeah like the army just changed their like Physical like appearance standards and is allowing men to wear nail polish now No, it's just like where does it end where does this end with the appeasement? It's like once again distraction from the mission Like there is like a like a pretty easy test that I feel like if military leaders got back to this It would like quickly change some things which is does this make the military a more lethal fighting force to accomplish our mission and destroy our enemy? Yeah, nobody talks like that nobody says oh that should come into the equation when I'm making decisions it's am I going to appease the masses with allowing men to wear fingernail polish and What type of if my pronouns are like loud and proud in everyone's faces or not? So it's but it's weakening the force. It's it's saying that uniqueness is what matters and individualism is important and Not the team not sacrificing for the team for you as an individual and doing what's best for the whole And that's let they're teaching especially at the service academies That that that's what's important. Yes here forces new Annual reporting system so used to be called an EPR annual performance review is how called EPD it was the performance board You can no longer put team earn Accomplishments on it. It's all individual. So before you could put that like the things I did at my work led to our unit winning like the Air Force outstanding unit award for like 2023 so like that you can't do that anymore. They were moved it Every bullet point has to be something you specifically been it can't relate to any team Award or anything so you can no longer tie your squadron or your base winning something based off of your work Well, one of the points you made in your book is that the military shouldn't be a social experiment And I do completely agree with that and the military definitely has Historically been used as a as a social experiment. This isn't the first time it has been right. So some examples of that would be Don't ask don't tell being repealed you know integration of you know races into the military and not having separate units just for black soldiers and white soldiers and things like that, right? So and that's kind of sort of how the military has evolved with some of the social strife that the United States has seen Because the military is downstream from the the culture that is in our in our country But at the same time the military has had barriers to entry and it should have been in those barriers to entry are going away And the exclusivity of the military is is turning towards the inclusivity of the DEI that you're talking about so much And so my question to you about it is and you you mentioned it quite a bit with the the individuality saying Is when I came in like, you know, I got told like the US Air Force is on your uniform right over your heart That's your new family, right? That's who you're supposed to represent. That's who you are now I feel like it's on purpose that these traditional military values of teamwork and camaraderie and esprit de corps are being eroded on purpose I think that it's an intent. I think it's intentional. It's an action being taken on purpose Do you feel like that or do you think that this is just like a symptom of some of the bullshit going on? Socially in our country. No, I mean it is absolutely intentional from the top who are creating many executive orders that are absolutely being pushed down and But I will also say the military and military leadership is openly embracing it So that's what I talk about when I say how political the military has become It is like they are welcoming these changes with open arms. Um and like If you have a personal or religious belief that is against it Then you are ostracized you, you know Where the scarlet letter of shame for speaking out about your principles and values because suddenly you're against you know Some of the madness that has been pushed on to the military these days um And you know We saw a lot we saw thousands and thousands of people Like suffer, you know giving up careers and livelihoods Because being either like choosing to leave or being forced out because of the covid vaccine um and the military not holding up their end of the bargain in terms of um religious exemptions And That religious exemption didn't say holding up their end of the bargain I should say breaking the law by By not that that exemption didn't fit their narrative. So it wasn't allowed But it was very strategic the way that Secretary Austin wrote the memo that came down in august of 21 When he required the covid mandates um he said Like the memo that he wrote himself was Fine it passed, you know, it checked every legal block whatsoever But he ordered the lower level commanders beneath him um He ordered them to carry out a task, which was illegal They did not have the product on hand That was required by law in order to enforce a covid or a vaccine mandate And so but he took care of himself. He made sure he was good. Um but then it essentially uh, the lower level commanders talking about being able to think for themselves um An interpreter in order An officer is required to uphold a lawful order If they get ordered to do something that is not lawful It is up to them to stand up to that and say i'm not following a lawful with their duty It's in their oath Mm-hmm and and Unfortunately 99.9 Percent of them look together way and went with it Fast um There were a few commanders that I know that said they would not require Their unit They would not require them to take the vaccine and they were forced out within months of retirement Uh, and then there were also some like, um, you know, company level commanders Uh that did the same thing and they were treated you probably read the story about it in my book They were treated so poorly like these like once again these people who like loved their country the type of officer that we want that has like Such extreme potential to like Be a fantastic leader and already is with what he was able to do and and stand up to those above him But even in in his case in in a story that I read in my book He came prepared he like had it ready to like hey, give me my give me my 15 minutes to Talk to you about why this is important to me and what this means and this is why I am making the decision I am nobody wanted to hear it just do it just You know the military takes a million shots. This is no different actually it is different. Um and and so Yeah, it just like goes along with I don't know that weak leadership that Is in crisis right now in the military No, what's scary to me the point you made is that all of these commanders were given this These instructions essentially to to force this on people and none of them Rose, you know, or very few rose their hand up and said i'm not doing this And there is an immense amount of trust that I grew up with seeing that the american people have in our military And I have seen it deplete over and over and over again That's a point you make in our book your book about just how fast that's happened over the past couple of years Which is scary the trust that people have in the military And one of those things is that the military is is sort of like this untouchable thing to the political bs that Which is the point you were making earlier and that the military isn't going to you know follow unlawful orders the military isn't going to do things That are unconstitutional When in fact that you know that's been proven wrong and I think that that plays into a lot of the the lost trust that the american people have in the military and probably Feeds into why people don't want to join the military and a lot of people are getting out of the military To include myself with five years left And uh, it's it's it's really sad to see that but at the same time I think it's I think honestly it's more scary than anything because it just shows you just how deep those roots go of Yes, men, you know like you think you you brought up in the book your book as well Um because I see that I see that very often and the um extremism stand down That was probably the dumbest one of the dumbest things i've ever experienced in my career Um, I knew that you know you weren't serving during that time But um, I don't know if you when you were did you guys have to participate in the stand down? Um, as far as a dod employee still at the time No, I I was gone. I left 2018 Okay, got you Yeah, I mean like All of the This kind of feeds into a point I was going to make is that like the military is pandering to all of the wrong things now And it uh speaks to the the tyranny of the minority if you're if you're familiar with with that term um Which is the military is very much experiencing as well the commander I had during the stand down Um, all of these things right if you go on base for the most part Um, and you you go through any part of a lot you're gonna find bumper stickers They may say like oh, I have oh, we have veteran or you might see a couple of gatston flags or you might see, you know You know a patriot with you know, a minute man sticker or something like that Um, he literally had patrolmen in my unit going and driving through parking lots looking for these stickers And um, I had to tell a troop who had a gatston flag hanging up on the wall in his barracks room that he had You know, basically. Hey, uh, the commander wants you to take that down And op was like listen, you know to me that's the first amendment Violation because that is your uh, it's your first amendment right to be able to hang that up That's just right. Well, but it's not I mean that that whole like doesn't count because it's government quarters, right? But at the same time, um, you know, I told him I was like, this is how I feel I feel like your your rights are being violated And this is what I think you should go do you should go to the ig and say something because This your your your rights are being infringed on by saying, you know, this is the fight You know as an SEO. I got the list of findings from them running through these rims and looking for a size of extremism Which is just funny because yeah, that's these are the people you want in the military and 10 years ago These are the people who would you'd say hey, you know, hey patriot. You want to serve your country You want to wear that that american flag on your shoulder? You want to lace your boots up? You want to learn to shoot you want to go do that with a bunch of other, you know dudes and chicks who really love this country too Right, so again, you're pandering to all the wrong things of the military and it just is like hey This is it's a suicide. It really is just suicide. I think it's a major society. It's a great way to wear it It's like a Society today doesn't have any real problems at least from the United States Like civilians have no real problems that they are creating their own problems So they have something to be upset about or to fight for or whatever the military Like I said earlier, it doesn't have like a pond of anything So the military doesn't have someone to fight for or to fight towards or to Overcome so they just mirroring society and creating these like wokeness things to have something to Like making mountains out of molehills and yeah, like they're like hey The war on terror is over. We don't need to fight terrorists. So instead we're gonna fight Um, you know extremism in our own ranks. I don't think it's That I don't think it's honestly no and I'll give you I want to I want to let amber answer first because I don't think that's what it is But I'll let her go first Well, I think that you know society has absolutely changed, but I also think that the I don't know if it's so much like oh the the military doesn't have an enemy. We have more enemies today then you know Like we did not too long ago. Um, but I think that what Is going on with the military is they are having an identity crisis. They have lost their sense of purpose And so what are they doing instead of being mission focused instead of saying we're gonna be the toughest most brutal lethal like People out there that every single adversary should be terrified of because we are going to destroy you if you look at us The wrong way else will raise your sons and daughters, right? Exactly. Oh my gosh best speech Absolutely. Yep Um, david valvia is American hero big fast, uh, okay, so anyway, but like and so what is the military doing instead? They're they did like a 180 and they're saying like oh Like we need to do training on unconscious bias where even if you think that you are a team player And you understand other people's upbringings. Um, no, I have that unconscious bias Yeah, and it's like you are telling me that I am the problem and guess what? When an institution that you are there to serve to make better And to make all of the sacrifices that come along with the military and now it's coming after you Guess what? You are going to get out as soon as your contract is up And you are going to tell everyone in your family and anyone you have influence over to Not sort of exactly and it's happening and I know I mean like it's crazy too, right? Because you had you had Guys that deployed um in 2003 when this whole thing started right when we're in these initial invasions into iraq and fiesta, right? And then their sons were there too 10 years later, you know And then now they're telling their children don't do this. It's not worth it This is the and the reason why I said I disagree with you zach that it's not like an identity crisis like Um, we're a first world country And so we argue about what bathrooms to use because we don't face any sort of actual strife There's no argument any ends that we were engaging with every day They they weren't arguing about it because they're peeing in the tree line. You know what I mean? Um, it's everybody's bathroom is outside Uh, but I disagree that it's one of these these these these crises is of a first world problem Because I think it's more of an evidence just sort of how insidious a lot of this Dogma is of dei and just how much it's seated itself in positions of leadership To where it is now a culture that you're going to we are going to have to fight our way out of it's not just Um, you know having a couple conversations now. We're talking about changing policies now You're talking about removing people or or voting people out of offices Um, we're in to your to the point you made in the book and we're about civilian leadership stepping up And and doing something to remove some of these people and enforcing accountability Um, I just think it's more of an evidence of the insidiousness of all this stuff that it is of it's just the first world problem I mean it could be a first world problem and so far as like every empire Starts to crumble and and you can you can draw strings with you know Just some of the ways that like our military is a roading to like the roman military the british military all these things, right? Go ahead. Why is it so hard though for society to find the correlation between a strong military and the survival of a nation So when the military Is like we have risen to the top because we have had the most Incredible military incredible technology Um, and it's and it's kept us there. Yeah, but what else have we also have until Now like until what we are facing today, which is a love of country of those people willing Uh to serve and we had um, you know, we we've had Drafts Over the years, but yeah overall People still have have wanted to serve and just like up into this all you know for the past 30 plus years. We have Had a sustainable all volunteer force and today it is not a sustainable all volunteer force No, I want to get your team on this uh on a letter that went out a couple months ago from the army um amber where they were Asking um former service members. Yeah who uh Refused to get the covet vaccine to come back. They were saying hey, we made a boo boo pretty much again to the tairies now too. Yeah, they pretty much said hey, we need a boo boo We uh, we messed up You can fix your records if you're just normally discharged or something and if you'd like to come back you come back So this is not what I feel like the media played this out to be. Yeah, this is to comply with the nda They had to send out this letter to everyone had been separated That basically says if you want your records updated So basically like they couldn't get like whatever type of um Like punitive actions on their record or whatever they were like if they want to get them updated But it was It was up to the service member to make sure that happened which is what this letter was So I I completely viewed this completely different. I didn't think this was a come back to us letter at all I thought it was a compliance um Like the army was actually Right in this letter because at that last paragraph Is the individuals who desire to apply to return? Do you think people actually came back in this way or Probably not or do you think the army even entertained that idea if like someone came back? This is I want to rejoin it. That's in this loyce. This is see why I mean super loopable heavy I Know a lot of people who left Were either forced out or or just didn't realize or got out to retire or left um Because of the coven vaccine and I have not like I don't think the military Grasps What they did to these people? Yeah, so like they took people who have made Sacrifices that most people can't will never be able to relate to in terms of what it does to your family over the years deployments um Like missing your children's everything like all of the sacrifices that come with serving in the military um But why are those sacrifices always worth it those sacrifices are worth it because of what your purpose is and what the mission is and what You are a part of and what you are serving and so when They kicked everybody out or forced people to leave whichever the circumstance was they The curtain was pulled back on the military and what they truly cared about and how they treat their purpose The military preaches all day long take care of our people take care of our families Nope as soon as it came time to do that. They threw them to the wolves and so It absolutely was the most Um, it was like a loss like a death. It was a heartbreak to to to learn That's the institution that they loved that they had given so much to Kicked them to the curb. Yeah when it mattered And so no, it was like they just they just and then and then you also have the financial aspect of it Of like this is people's careers and their livelihoods and this is like their Paychecks that they'd pay the bills with is suddenly just gone Basically on no notice like hey, I have to make the decision like am I gonna stand on principle and um Like like protects my own health. Um, I have to get out now, you know, so it's it was just um a A rude awakening that I think The most recently the covet vaccine mandate and the afghanistan Um withdrawal in addition to like I mean the dei and all the like woke stuff that there's so much there It's like that's like in its own separate category, but um, it's it's irreversible Generationally for people and how they view the military it is You're you're building up people's expectations for the military to be this now And it's it's going to be up to us right and then the the generations that come after us to Change those minds and and hopefully rebuild it into something else because this is not going to be an overnight process And history would show that the precedent is we will fail at this job of turning the ship around um, there's not a lot of uh Examples of crumbling empires or crumbling militaries Turning themselves around and becoming the fighting force that they they used to be without some sort of total You know, unifying event like a 9/11 again And I want to make a point that you're you're talking about like readiness amber I learned something recently about the old british navy and i'm talking about like when it was the height of the the navies of the world, right? it was a requirement for Ship captains wherever they went they would have to plant a specific type of pine tree Where it is now the most common pine tree in the world and it's because of the british navy So that no matter where they landed if they had been in Combat and they needed to land and repair the ship that those pine trees would be there anywhere in the world um for them to repair the ships and that is just a small example But it's a massive example of the links that a military when it when it prioritizes readiness will go to To make sure that it's always ready, right? And that is obviously that stopped at some point and i'm just trying to use it as an example to say that that is that is what The the type of thinking you have to have to maintain readiness not to do repair ships with pine trees anymore Thankfully, um, but the United States isn't thinking like that anymore. We're not thinking ahead We're not thinking about how we're going to fight I mean there are people who are right and I know some of those people who spend a lot of time thinking about china And thinking about you know how we're going to you know breach the inside of the second island chain and do what we need to do and all these things, right? But the outward appearance of the military is that we're more focused on things like Um, hey, you want to you want to have a sex change come into the military. We'll pay for it And uh, I've served with two people who went through that process Um, and I mean we can talk about that Uh, if if you want, um, but it is again, it's not about readiness. It's it's oh well Here's a number, right? We need 200 people where you want to trans you want to be trans and you want to come in and get your surgery We need you know 200 people where i 199 will go ahead and come on in use around number, right? And it's not about it's not about readiness. It's not about prioritizing those things Um, and I think it again just speaks to just the way the United States is is going and us as a people Um, and if something god forbid it happens tomorrow if the Chinese decide they're gonna They're gonna land on the shores of Taiwan and go in there and take it and we I do think there will be some sort of draft, right? Um, I it's it's gonna be a shit show at those draft stations. That's for sure. I'll say that and and the Hard to enforce. Yes, it will be and there's a lot of people in the military that don't either want to be there to begin with God help us when 80 percent of the people out are in don't want to be there, you know, so yeah Yeah, they're they're not gonna fight and die for um A country that they despise, right? They've been raised to despise Yes, um, and to to bring up the whole trans issue and readiness, so I always just like the military loves to preach readiness when they can use it To push or to push and agenda, especially when it comes to the india a Trying to get bill passed Um, can you expand on the india a real fast just give a brief what it is just for people listening to me that no National Defense Authorization Act. It's the bill that it's the annual bill that funds the military Every year and there's like a million things shoved into it And I have a I said this for some time. So power of the purse with congress, right? Every year they get to decide how much money they're going to give to the department of defense Uh They have significant power And they finally decided to utilize that with the covid vaccine mandate. Yeah, so But the when I say they have significant power, they don't usually use it and that is my Criticism of them is that congress Carries some of the blame with the failures at the department of defense too because They are too scared to be tied to be labeled As someone who didn't fund the military then they are to stand and we saw what happened with senator tupperfield where he stood Refused to allow the general promotions to move forward because once again the department of defense Things that's above the law every now and then and they know there'll be zero repercussions or accountability And they they think that they get to pick and choose when the law applies to them Um, we saw what happened when he stood up to the department of defense. It was like Every single person that dies in Ukraine is his fault and these generals can't feed their families anymore And how are we expected to this is this is what's causing the retention crisis is because of like his Um, hold up and it's like It's it's people carry this like pr campaign for the pentagon When they need it to when it comes to money and it's like how about you say no more money Until this is the changes that you make And they won't do it because they say oh national security like oh china's gonna feel emboldened like China is emboldened with the military that we have today. So like use your power which is money and Force them to make some changes just like they did with the covid mandate So that happened they saw a lot of veterans in congress saw what it was doing to the fighting force And they came up with the deal and they said absolutely not remove the mandate or this india 2023 is not getting signed and They agreed because they wanted some money. Yeah, so um money talks. I do think congress needs to Make this a bigger priority than they have yeah Oh, no, I mean, sorry. Absolutely. That was like an india tangent. What I wanted to say about readiness though, um They use readiness. They used readiness for the covid mandate. They said people not getting the shot It is going to cause a readiness issue. Everybody's gonna get sick and we will be able to fight futures then About the the trans um policy They come in and do these surgeries on the tax years dimes And they are out of the fight as in like a downslip. That's what we call an aviation or Like a pro a medical profile where they aren't allowed to perform certain aspects of their jobs For years months to even years. Yes. And so and also they're like non-deployable And so what does that do to readiness? So once again because um I I guess it's like socially popular right now and the military wants to appease like the smallest demographic that exists They're saying oh no, we actually need all the people in the world for readiness And it's like come on. We see through exactly we we see through it like you're not you're not tricking anybody If I hear another officer or senior nco say diversity is our strengths I'm gonna fuck fucking push my computer because I mean listen The the entire idea of the United States is that we're a melting pot. We are nothing but diversity and have been Since you know the inception right it's supposed to be right all of us are created equal Okay, back. It's thrown around so much now that it is like uh, it's a hard word It is and it has nothing to do with lethality. It has nothing to do with anything other than being a vehicle for Introducing more of this DEI will policy than anything. It's not like okay Well, we want to be more diverse and you know, we need more people who are really really good at Being cyber adept right and they're going to sit here and they're going to hack china They're going to do these things right that's the type of diversity I want to see We're going to go get these these corn fed Iowa boys to go and join the army and then they're going to be rangers Right, that's there's another type of diversity because that's not everywhere right that The type of diversity that they're talking about has nothing to do with lethality Um, and and there's a video of this space force Lieutenant colonel. I think we guys know we're talking about she he or she whatever, uh, is is uh is trans They are talking yeah talking about talking about diversity is our strength um These kids eat that shit up man And this is the kind of thing that gets gets attention And this is the kind of thing that uh, the the duty celebrates because if they didn't they wouldn't let And I know just because how controlled officers can be and the the sort of public attention They can give her and you were public affairs and where you know this everything If you're going to be on on camera and you got to go through some sort of PA brief Or if you're going to write something that's going to be released in public you're going to have some sort of PA brief Um, you know, she was here. She I generally don't know if it was a man transitioning to a woman or transitioning to a man I can't remember Um, but it's a lot of state app because that's what the dud wants them to say now to everybody All right, but I fucking hate hearing that phrase Or diversity is our strength I can't stand it either. I named my chapters the opposite of that Because it was like come on like Ridiculous. Yeah, it's like it's like a feel good statement It is Which once again is like Of all of this drives me insane is that like if we could all get back to the standard of reality That's a great place to start Right. I think that's I think the uh The marines a couple times but the marines deal with the transgender thing I think the best so they are still they still allow it you can transition But they have like standard workarounds to pretty much remove them Um, and what it is is if you are non deployable for one year Like one year you are then removed from the marine core But every transition Process takes longer than a year. So how the marine core allows it. I think it's rid of them is they will say yeah, sure We'll spend the process and start it and then the clock starts for your one year and you get to your one year You're still not deployable. You're not fully transitioning You can't just transition back as quickly as you thought you could and record then says thank you for your service Then they kick you out and then how about this? He's a crazy idea Maybe we don't force taxpayers to pay for somebody's elective surgery Yeah, and we just don't do that at all. How about that? It should be but because it's currently pushed by the dod The branches have to get I guess crafty in their way of saying oh or for it But none of them are going to be in our branch because they're never going to finish it Well, I'll say this right and I know this and again like I can speak on the air force more than anything There is um a culture of this this whole like inclusive thing this whole equity thing And it gets put into emails it gets put into base wide events It gets put into um the way that we do awards now. They're really email today where the the signature said um like their pronouns of it And it was from like some that's been going on going off for a while There's like actual guidance about how you're supposed to put that in your signature. Yeah, but what I'm trying to say is is that Um, there are so many people Um, especially airmen, right? So your e e1 is through e4 is That essentially because of who they are and what they look like They are pushed towards doing this stuff that has nothing to do with their actual job It's a bake sale or it's some sort of event that's going on on base And that that is more important than the people who are actually doing their job and that's sort of taken over as the the uh Thing we want to see from you is how well can you plan a bake sale or how well can you get um somebody to come and give a talk about something that isn't really happening but we're going to pretend it's a problem To give you some sort of feel good And by that I I mean that we create a lot of these issues and to go back to the stand-down thing, right? There there is not a a domestic terrorism problem in the military and most of us when we heard that we're like well That's fucking retarded that that's that does not happen at all That's I've never met anybody like I met I met idiots in the military. There's a lot of us, right? I'm one of them. Okay, you used to be all right There are some stupid kids there are people that are racist in the military but the military is so good At finding out who the fuck those people are and alienating them You there's a meme that goes around every once in a while. I see it. It's like a group of military members who are friends It's like this fucking dude. It looks like there's a cholo dressed up on easter You got a fucking white guy that looks like zack You've got like a black eye and then like it whoever the chick and that's your I saw that I did yeah Yeah, exactly and it's like that is the military I know and that's the reality You telling me that there's a white extremism problem in the military is fucking bogus Right like it was just like natural Like everybody blended together and it wasn't like until everybody started like let's point that out Let's point that out and like talk about our differences and then We'll claim a certain group of people as extremists or as extremists and say that they're part of the problem Like how do they not understand? how divisive And like corrosive that is too military Wanted to be so out of touch. Yeah, and it's like it. It's like a self like you said it's suicidal it's creating a problem that doesn't like Where there isn't a need like to be dressed there. It's just crazy Right and that's the thing is like these processes to get rid of people who who are racist and maybe do something that's racist Right or sexist or whatever there are processes already in place to get you out If that's what you're doing if you're a commander and you're you know only only giving awards to chicks You find attractive they're gonna figure it out pretty fast and you're gonna be relieved of command Right, so those processes are already in place and I've you know when I say that we we laugh but it that happens You know what I mean? I'm guessing that happens since you use that as an example I've seen that happen, you know that maybe they're making making female airman feel uncomfortable, right? But um no, but those those those processes already exist as the point I'm trying to make You know there was a one-star general who wanted a second star So they remade that whole process Well, that's sure but what I'm what I'm getting at is is um You're creating something out of nothing and you're taking these very small things that happen um Not often and you're making them out to be these the again These mountains out of molehills that don't exist and you you're not going to convince me that you're so stupid that you don't recognize that It is divisive, which is why I think it's on purpose Um, and I think that it's it's just something that they want to see happen because they want the the military to not be Uh this exclusive thing anymore because all of these things that make the military good our lethality our strength our exclusivity Um those are things that the United States doesn't uphold anymore The these are the things that these generate the generation Doesn't believe in anymore and these are what you're trying to do You're getting rid of them and by other methods like you said like the marine corps says only a one year and then you got to get out Well, they're just this is the gymnastics of getting to that point by dancing around it until it's dead Basically walls of Jericho or so walk around them. They're gonna fall basically. That's what I think but yeah, but it's great Not great. What was great? Everything you just said it was really great. All right. I I agree with all of them. Oh, thank you. Yeah, wow The the thing I don't think a lot of uh the younger kids that come in and I say kids because of 18 20 I mean, I'm I'm almost 40, right? I would definitely say that 18 year old is still kid even though you're protecting the adult Your brain is still there, right? Mm-hmm. One of the things that I don't think they understand is that the america They grew up in was the america. They grew up in in america I grew up in was the america I grew up in because of the things that we cherish and the things that we upheld Are a higher standard and when you're the unipolar leader the hegemonic leader of the world you get to live a certain type of way and All of these things we're talking about are just a smaller portion of the larger thing that's going on Um in the identity crisis that the united states is having so to speak right That the life you've enjoyed it in this country is this first world country that we've we've made in where you get to You're respected around the way everybody looks at america is this this great thing Everybody in russian Nicole were wanted to own a pair of levi's right because they were american And and people used to look at the united states as this this fashion is the shining city on the hill right all of these things You grew up the way you grew up with all with with an iphone in your hand in a car and food and a warm house And because of the strength of the united states and that strength the united states is is 100 Supported by the military and I don't think that they understand that when that goes away That your entire life is going to change and it really is on the verge of going away if you don't wake up And realize that um and that these freedoms we enjoy require it's actually the Hold on. I'm just not rooted because I don't want to form this quote, but you put it in here It's a fondness pain quote amber if I can find it real fast here Uh, yeah, those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must undertake to support it Action right The life you've enjoyed up to this point is because of the actions of other people and you're in action Your nihilism the things that you think don't matter Um, are the things that got us here and the things that uh have made america as as great and as strong and as powerful as what she is and that If you don't continue to uphold those things if you don't believe in And or if you don't believe in us as americans and you think that somebody's just going to hand you everything on a silver platter It's got to go away And there is there are countless historical examples of people who have sat back and Been casters by to the the the walls crumbling around them because they think they can't do anything And you know, these these generals are really just politicians and uniform now and there again is a precedent of that You can look at ancient rome. You can look at the the british empire when it was at its height These are all things like you said amber that people don't recognize and make the that mental leap to understand like Holy shit empires have fallen because of these things that are going on Um, and they don't care and you know, it's around them It's like when you took all these these germans that lived outside of concentration camps in world war two And you walked them through the concentration in the death camps and they still deny that it happened You can show somebody what the fuck is going on in front of them and they'll sit there and be like no It's not happening. And that's kind of how I feel what's that is what's happening in our country Anyway, it's so true. I feel like that was like exactly what happened In afghanistan except I tend to think that they knew I think that I think that they knew Exactly what was going on and yet they chose to deceive um, so I feel about There's a something that I want to bring up is um The military for decades has sort of Taken for granted The recruiting demographic that is veterans. So when they um You know, and even more so into the post and I love an era It's become like a family business if your families are or if you're someone in your immediate family served You're, you know significantly more likely to serve me in the military Yeah, that's that's like a lot of people But but that demographic is gone. They have absolutely lost that demographic and It's but once again, it's like they can't figure out why Like they're like we don't get why Veterans who used to be the number one promoter just like um organically like Promoting military service like going and speaking to high school. Yes wearing their uniform Um being members in their community and promoting service that is gone I can't tell you how many people I have talked to you that said I will never recommend service to my children or Anyone that I have any sort of influence over And their distancing themselves from like that should terrify everyone that should terrify everyone because right now What we're seeing with the militaries. They're lowering some standards. They're lowering some standards like here and there wherever they can um They've uh Already the the army's not just lowering standards. They're lowering their numbers They're like we can't meet these numbers. We're just gonna reduce like what what what our force needs to be um And so now that's like veterans on on board anymore the military like The sooner or later it's gonna run out. You lost your biggest cheerleader And people don't seem to get that it's not eternal. It's not this guarantee the all volunteer force Is not a guarantee. In fact, it is very weird That and rare right we have been able to have an all volunteer force And we're seeing right now you still have generals going to Capitol Hill and testifying that like oh, I don't think we're to the draft conversation yet It's like that's your problem. Why are you not thinking about that? Because that's exactly where we're headed I'm curious to know your I say this um Pretty off that of the podcast that I don't really advocate for Mandatory military service because as I said before there's already enough people in the military that realize once they get here that they don't want to be here And they're a problem anyway That I know what people who are forced to join because then majority mark I want to be here I advocate for some either or right so I feel like a civil service or a mandatory military service Am I still civil service? I say that like you're serving somewhere in your community whatever that looks like, you know what I mean Um, and you're giving back to your community because I think that people need to understand that a lot of these problems start a lot Closer to home than you realize Um What do you think that that something like that mandatory military civil service something like that is a good place to Start to try and fix some of these problems or do you think that that is is uh, maybe the wrong idea? I think we're too far gone at this point. I think if we would have started You know Maybe in the 90s. I I don't know. I I think that now it would like it would not go over well, but I do think that the like It's real model of like a um mandatory service. Yeah, um I I think that it's important because I think that um I think it creates buy-in for citizens suddenly They're having to sacrifice something and suddenly they're having to see the bigger picture Um, and that's something that's missing in society today. People think that The way it is today is the way it's always been and the way it'll always be tomorrow. Um, and Uh So I I don't know like I I think that Um It would definitely change some things in our country and society people would view it differently parents Would suddenly have involvements because their kids are serving in a military I think people would care about foreign policy a whole lot more in the words we involved in Um So it definitely has some positive, uh like Things to it that I think would be beneficial to our nation. I just think um like Inacting it especially like modern times would be like nearly impossible Um, but I I think it would be beneficial Yeah, I agree. I mean, that's why I always say you know again I don't think like mandatory military service should be a requirement because I feel like It should be an option. Um one or the other civil or military, but the buy-in that you were talking about I think is is important because not a lot of kids and younger people anyway I'll just say this people in general, right? Especially americans. Don't really understand how the sausage is made and they don't care They just eat it. Um, yeah And that is many ways for us. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, um, they take it for Yeah, no, absolutely. Um, and they take it for granted and I think that that is definitely a problem, but Um, I I do tend to agree with you that we're too far gone as a society Um, so that was kind of like leading into my next question is do you think this sort of like mind virus and of wokism Is is too deep seated or do you think that we're still able to change hearts and minds, um and then come out of this It feels pretty bleak to me first for ourselves even like for our own military. So, um, There's like a couple things It's yeah, it's not gonna it's not gonna So there's policies that can change with the presidential administration And executive orders that can be ripped up, you know with the change in administration But there's the culture which will not change in a presidential administration Um, and so that is generational and when you think about what can happen in a generation in the wars that come with it It's kind of frightening um But you do look at west point in the service academies and some of the things that they they're being taught um that are not about, you know battlefield strategy and leadership and winning and once again focusing on other areas um I I think it's gonna be really difficult and I think it's gonna take some time like And it's gonna require a lot of coordination in terms of leadership both like presidential service secretaries sector of co-con commanders like they they are somehow gonna have to be in unison to be able to change this um not only in policy, but in um, like Flipping it back to america meritocracy. That's like, that's like step one Because nothing's gonna change Nothing's gonna change without that And what's so crazy about sort of the rise of dei Is that how can you argue with um merits? How can you argue with saying this person scored the best this person did You know the best person for the job Best interview best born whatever the the metrics are for the standard. Um Like it makes no sense logically about why you would not want that You want the best people to use immutable characteristics as your metric makes no sense, you know And then yeah to change that to like lower the standard To bring more people on board. It's like no, but the best thing about a meritocracy Nobody cares if you're a man or a man, nobody cares if you're black or white or Hispanic or Asian or whatever Nobody cares. Yeah, you're the you're the best congratulations, right if you're the worst like Not gonna happen, but now we get to consider the worst or just the the mediocre and bring them up to the top In this in the name of of dei and it's gonna destroy the military. It already, you know Has has taken a considerable toll doing a good job. It's only going to get worse. Yeah Um the Air Force Academy a couple weeks ago shared a photo of a cadet And I won't say her name, but it is it's a public post But it says that her major is behavioral science with a minor in diversity and inclusion And this person is going to be lieutenant one day They're going to be a first lieutenant and a captain and a major. They're going to go to squadron officer school That's her that's her major at at the air force academy is behavioral science Diversity and inclusion So they're breeding people to come into the military to enforce this stuff, which is why Um, it's so important like you said to understand Um that this is not going to go away without serious change because they're putting people Through these degrees and into the military. I mean, I I made the joke that she's going to ruin somebody's career at some point Uh, this is that kind of person that they they want to see in the military now because they're teaching them about it And we're going to get a degree in diversity and inclusion. They're just meaning they're just missing the e Um, but I had the opportunity when I was in college in st. Louis to go to the st. Louis symphony orchestra and one of the things I got to see when I was there was their process for Um filling a seat in the orchestra for somebody for for something they needed somebody Um, I don't remember what issue that they were playing or some sort of win But we got to watch them do their interviews for people. Okay, and they got up on stage behind a screen They made them take their shoes off. So you couldn't tell because you know if a woman showed up Maybe she was wearing heels. She walked across the stage. You could hear the heels. You know as a female, right? So if you had any sort of bias about females playing the oboe, right then maybe you know, they Eradicated that by taking me and your taker shoes off But they made all of them who auditioned sit behind the screen and everybody who was listening to fill this seat All they did was determine who was going to fill that seat based on How they played behind the screen and they had no idea if it was an asian man or a black woman or a white woman And that is the definition of meritocracy because it was 110 based on ability And they wanted to not let those other immutable characteristics about this person Influence anybody's decision about who was going to be That person, right? And this isn't even something that's not even the military. This is an orchestra, right? So it's not like this concept of meritocracy is exclusive to the military Um, but again, this was 2007, right? And this not that uh long ago That you see that and I would almost be willing to bet that that policy doesn't happen anymore The st. Louis symphony orchestra where they um are only determining who gets to sit there based on their ability to play their instrument Um, so again, like this is uh, this is a problem. This is an american problem. I think it's a western 2007 was like forever ago in like the In social media in the context of dei. Yeah, it was like an eternity ago. It is Two generations ago. It was like back in the back the good old days when we all lived in reality, right? Right. Yeah, exactly. So but anyway, uh, I you know, I I think your book is great Um, this is something that zach and I talk about pretty often Um, you could probably write a book five times as big as this one with all the stupid shit that happens Um, but no one would read it and you know what? I think most people's attention spans nowadays aren't that big anyway, so five second tiktok or move on You're right. So yeah, well It's like I keep, you know, you have to turn a manuscript in by a certain time And then I like hear about all these other like things that are going on I'm like, oh, I wish I could have put that in my book and that in my book and it just it keeps going and it's honestly like I guess when you say a book how much it's gotten worse just since I finished my manuscripts. So like I said, it's um, the train is rolling and People need to start waking up to the realities of the dangers in the military right now and how it is threatening our national security um In the future of our nation and I I hope people can read my book take it and take some of these threats um Seriously, um in terms of how they're damaging the military. Yeah Um, if I can leave a message, you know with with what you just said and expand on it Um piggyback to use military term, right? Um, hey, the young if you're a part of that younger group of people, um who is 18 to 22 or whatever We're not We're not boomers sitting up here making complaining about the good old days, right? This isn't just shit to cast off and not care about and be dismissed Um, and this is a real conversation about real things about things that actually matter and and foundational things that hold up society The the beginning of your book is the quote. Uh, is that can I use? All the time hard times treat strong men strong men great good times good times create weak men weak men create hard times Uh, that is very evident today that weak men are creating hard times and um, if you're part of that younger crowd, please consider, um Doing something to better yourself training finding, um, something that you believe in philosophy Like stoicism or religion even right, um and understanding that the hard things are normally the path toward Um, you know making yourself better in that running away from hard things isn't going to get you anywhere Um, I promise Uh, so thank you amber for coming on. Um, looking forward to um, you know seeing how well your book does I think it will do really well when it's dropped it's 30th of April, right? I'm not mistaken So that's coming up pretty fast, right? And um, yes, are you gonna do an audio book for people like zaph who can't read or You know, I don't know. I was I was actually just talking to, um, some people that do that kind of stuff. So, um, stay tuned for news on that Okay, cool. Well anyway Before you even though I can't read, I'll be the audio press. I'll just say random gibberish Perfect. Well, uh, thank you again for coming on. Uh, is there anywhere that people I know that you're on social media But is there else that people can find you and type you out? Uh Instagram and twitter at amber smith usa And my website is official amber smith.com Okay, awesome. Well, thank you very much amber I appreciate uh the insights uh tonight and in your book And i'm zack unless you've got anything before we sign off Go ahead and sign off. You got anything mr. Clean? Nope. I do not All right, thank you. Cool. Thanks. You guys for having me on really appreciate it. Yeah, for sure. Have a good night