(upbeat music) - Just gonna take a quick break from the show, everybody, to tell you a little bit more about one of my favorite things in the world, Audible. Audible lets you enjoy all of your audio entertainment in one app. You'll always find the best of what you love, or there's new stuff to discover all the time in Audible. The incredible selection of audio books across every genre, from bestsellers to new releases, to celebrity memoirs, mysteries, thrillers, motivation, wellness, business, they got it all here in Audible, and you can have it all too. Audible is the destination for thrilling audio entertainment, including small town murder, crime and sports, and your stupid opinions, with highly anticipated new releases, and next listen recommendations to habituate every type of thriller listener. And you can keep your heart rate up month after month with this pulse pounding collection, you can't hear anywhere else. The true crime stuff they have is amazing. Right now, what I'm listening to is "The Family" by Ed Sanders, and it is a full, complete retrospective on the Manson family, kind of all of what they were doing to set their weird stuff up. It is amazing and incredibly detailed, great stuff, and there's so much more on there. And as an Audible member, you can choose one title a month to keep from the entire catalog, including bestsellers, new releases, latest stuff you got if it's all there. New members can try Audible free for 30 days. Visit audible.com/smalltownmurder or text small town murder to 500, 500. That's audible.com/smalltownmurder or text small town murder to 500, 500. Now back to the show. Looking to instantly upgrade your Mother's Day gift from typical to meaningful shop Etsy? Get up to 30% off well-crafted and personalized gifts from participating shops until May 12th. This year, embrace your creative side, you know, the side your mom gave you, and shop Etsy for custom jewelry, style pieces, home decor, and extra special items, she'll adore. Need something original and affordable for Mother's Day? Etsy has it. Shop until May 12th for up to 30% off gifts for mom, terms apply. Dive into the chilling new Hulu original series Under the Bridge, the riveting adaptation of the best-selling true crime book. Based on shocking true events, Under the Bridge tells the haunting story of a murder that lays bare a small community's darkest secrets. Go deep into the hidden world of the town's tormented teenagers as detectives race to solve the sinister crime, starring Riley Keough and Lily Gladstone. Under the Bridge is now streaming with new episodes Wednesdays, only on Hulu. (upbeat music) - Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. - Yeah, and two, two. - Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrogale, I'm here with my co-host. - I'm Jimmy Wissman. - Thank you, folks, so much for joining us on another insane edition. This one is, again, wild stuff here of Small Town Murder Express. 10 pounds of crazy and a two pound bag. - Yeah. - You know it. So thank you for joining us here. Murder train pulling away from the station. - There we go. - We will get to it here. Very quickly, virtual live show, 420. - Oh, here it comes. - Let's go. Let's do it, April the 20th, Saturday night, just like a regular live show, but you are in your living room or anywhere else you feel like being with an internet connection anywhere in the world. It's available for two weeks after that, too, so you can buy it if you buy it before. You can watch it 20 times. You can do whatever you want with it in that two weeks, so have a good time with it. Shut up and givememurder.com is where you get those tickets, and get 'em right now. Also get tickets for the regular live shows. Next up, Durham May 31st. So Raleigh Durham is Durham Theater, I think. It's very, very nice. Nashville sold out the next night, sorry about that, but get your tickets, Durham, they're still available. So hang out with us there. patreon.com/crimeinsports is where you get the bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above, you get it all, baby. That's right, the whole back catalog, hundreds of episodes to binge on immediately of bonus stuff, and then new episodes every other week. One Crime in Sports, one small town murder, you get it all. You get it all. Every drop of it. Oh, yes. So this week for Crime in Sports, we're gonna talk about the trials and tribulations of Hulk Hogan. He's done a lot of dumb stuff over the years. Boil, boil. And dumb stuff with this guy. His kid killed the guy. It's so much stuff, we'll talk all about that. Then for small town murder, we're gonna talk about a popular demand, back by popular demand episode. Small town festivals, we're gonna find the weirdest ones out there. There's so many countless, and we're gonna talk about 'em, and they are hilarious. Can't wait for that. That is patreon.com/ Crime in Sports. - Crime in Sports. - In there right now. That said, I think it's time to get into this, everybody. What do you say? Let's all take a deep breath. Why not here? Arms to the sky, and let's all shout. ♪ Shout out that game of me murder ♪ - Let's do this, everybody. - Okay. - Let's go on a trip, Jimmy, shall we? - Here we go. - We are going to Indiana. Here, yeah, going to the middle of the country. We're going to Carmel, Indiana. - Carmel or Carmel? - Well, you know what, who knows? That's the thing. - It's probably Carmel, right? - It's B-A-R-M-E-L, yeah. - Yeah, it's just like the one by the sea. - Absolutely, yeah. Point Loma with the waves crashing. Same exact thing, they have it all over. - Gorgeous, yeah. - This is actually just in the northern suburbs of Indianapolis. - Yikes. - Yikes, yeah, we've been to Indianapolis. It's a, it is cold, it's a windy place, too. - Industrial, say that. - It looks like, it's a lot of steam fog. - It looks like it's like 1987, and they forgot to tell everybody in the city. It's a weird city. It's about an- - Less advanced Detroit. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, hasn't started coming back yet. It's about an hour and 40 minutes to Dillsboro, which was our last Indiana episode, which did the dog do it, which was amazing. No woman blamed her dog for murder, and it was pretty amazing. This is in Hamilton County. Now, the population right now is above where we normally do it. It's 98,137. - But shit loads. - This is all in the last 20 years. It had, in 2000, it had like 30,000 people, 25,000 people. - Really? - Yeah, so this is- - What happened? - People fled Indianapolis and came here 'cause it's just- - Fascinated. - 'Cause it's like a small suburb, and it's kind of like a small town. - Yeah, like manning left. - Took all this and no more of this shit and I'm going to move it out. So like the place we're gonna talk about today, the house is a very leafy little street, and it's a very small town type thing here. Median household income here, as we know the people who are moving, they're the people with money, 119,772 dollars. Median home price here, $493,000. - My Christ. - Yeah, this has gotten to be a very leafy and expensive. - That's fluent. - That's a fluent suburb. The motto here, a partnership for tomorrow, with who? - Give us your money and you'll be our part. - Yeah, a partnership with who, about what? - I don't know. - Very big history of this town. It was originally called Bethlehem, yes. And then they were like, there's a lot of places called Bethlehem. What the hell are we doing? - Not one Jesus here. - No, well, the other one too is in Pennsylvania, the one with the steel. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - And then also they found out, well, the original settlers were Quakers that came here. Now, they had to establish it as Carmel in 1846 because when they tried to get a post office, they said, hey, we already have a post office called Bethlehem in Indiana. So you can't have that, dummies. - There's already one in Indiana. - There's already one here, there's one in Pennsylvania, there's one in the Middle East, get over it. Let's-- - Stop it. - They renamed it then. Actually, they tried to do it in 1846 and they couldn't, it didn't work, they stood out. So then they decided on Carmel and their Carmel in 1874 is when they incorporated and got a post office. - Wow, took a lot. - We couldn't figure it out. This town actually has one of the first automatic traffic signals in the US were installed. - Really? - In an intersection off Main Street in 1924. - Wait, sensor? - Oh! - 1924, first automatic. - What the sensor was for that? - It might have just been time, might have been timed. - Oh, it might be, yeah. - That would have made sense too. - Even the ones that exist today are mad primitive. It's just a coil of copper underground that finds the metal from your car. It's crazy how primitive everything is. - It is, it's all primitive. - No tech now. - No, no, no. And then it changes. - Everybody's like, oh, it's a weight sensor. No, it's not. - Well, maybe if I bought this light car, I can't find me. - That's why motorcycles sometimes can't get them to change because there's not enough fucking metal. Or the metal's not low enough or whatever it is, but it's just not enough. - That's weird. - The views of this town, we have a couple of them here. Here's a five star, five stars. It is a great place to own a house, but you will have to work in Indianapolis and commute for 40 minutes. Carmel is very safe even at night. - Great place to own a house. - Great place to own a house. It's so weird. Three stars, traffic is awful. If you're laid back and low maintenance kind of person, you won't feel comfortable living in Carmel with the high pace. It's basically Manhattan, you know what I mean? It's like the stock exchange all the time there. - Yeah, the hustle and bustle of fucking Indian apple. - It's a real pressure cooker in the suburbs of Indy, over here. People are nice and schools are great, okay? And then finally, one star, I personally didn't like Carmel because of its superficial and egotistical environment. - Yeah, it's hard to burn. - They're all people, it's a money. It's a nice place to live, but it is way too competitive and materialistic that it tends to bring a lot of people, especially teenagers down. - Oh. - They're rich kids. - They have nothing. - There's rich kids that made you feel bad. - Yeah. - It has, put you down when you don't have navigation in your car. - That's it. - What are you using your phone? - Yeah, look at you. - Oh, you don't even have a thing for it. Brace, you gotta hold it. - Is it even in your dash? This is bullshit. - It has its pros, but it also has its cons and more cons than pros, so one star. - Things to do, the Indi Greek Festival. - Is that what they got there? - Yes, they held it in Carmel here. It is, it's all about Greek shit. The Hellenic Dance Program is a ministry that brings holy trinity's youth and adults together in Orthodox Christian fellowship and affords them the opportunity to live, learn, and experience the Hellenic culture. That's the- - They're all without the religion. - That's the dance people there. - Yeah, dance, but only in the name of religion. - And it's filled with members of all ages from elementary school through adults. All the best clubs are all ages as we know. They're always the most fun. And then you can experience authentic Greek music by George Carris. Yeah, he's been- - I guess that's a Greek guy. - Says he's been traveling across the country, sharing his love of Greek music and entertaining audiences, Greek and non-Greek alike. Y'all the non-Greeks love to hear traditional Greek music. That's what we all pine for. - Even the bald chested can go. - Yeah, anybody, even people with that tufts of hair on their shoulders can be there. He has performed over 1500 events, including West weddings, festivals, dances, Greek nights and barbecues. Don't doubt that you play barbecues if you're- - Barbecues. - Jesus Christ, man. They're talented. - A big barbecue gig next week. - Oh man, that's a good one too. I hear there'll be ribs there. They got sausages, this is gonna be a real good one. I'll tell you what. Holy shit. - You may see masterpiece on your guitar. That's not a good gig, man. - No, that's bad. A sweet baby rais ends up in your fucking tuning area. - In your tuning area. - In tuning for it. - It's on your fucking flat top guitar. You don't want that. - My frets are all sticky. What's happening here? - All this hickering. - Oh, Jesus Christ. It was the honey barbecue. That's what it was, that honey sticky. - It's very sticky. - So you can also learn how to prepare authentic Greek dishes, enjoy that Greek fest and in Greek homes. There's a tent that says cooking demo and it's somebody making Greek shit in the middle of a field. - Fucking love those olive leaves wrapped around rice or couscous. Where the fuck's in that? Those are so good. - Not a big Greek food enthusiast. - I like that one. That's my favorite thing and euros are good too. - Yeah, they're okay, yeah. When you grow up Italian and Greeks aren't like, they're like, ah, they all hate the Greeks for some reason. The Greeks don't like the Italians. They're next to each other. - I mean, it's just a sour Italian food kind of thing is what it feels like. - Yeah, it's almost like, yeah, what's left over at the end of Italian. - What's left over? We'll pickle it. How about that? We'll wrap a leaf around it and put this awful cheese in it. - And pickle the mother fuck out. - Put this terrible cheese that won't melt in it also. That's, you make a cheese that won't melt. I don't want to hear about it. You know what I'm saying? I'm sorry. (laughing) - Yeah, the worst cheeses are the ones that don't melt. - You got to melt, man, at least a little bit. It's soft something, it just kind of hits that. - Yeah. (laughing) - If I take a bite out of it and it stays holy beat in a one beat, that's a problem. - And then they're like, no, let's put it in every salad. Okay, fine. - Yeah, why can I stab it with a fork and it doesn't even crumble, that's bizarre. - No, no, it just stays. - And it won't melt, how is this? - That's even better melt. - Let's talk about some murder that is non-cheese, right? - All right, let's do it. - All right, let's talk about some people, man. This is weird here. Let's talk about Francis Kelly. Okay, Francis Kelly K-E-L-L-E-Y, by the way. - Fellow, he's a lazy fella, actually. - He's a lazy fella. (laughing) - Francis is a man, he's 46 years old, back in 2019, and we're gonna start our story here. So it's a very, very newer, much newer story. His parents are Francis senior, so he's a junior, and this is fucked up, okay? His mom's name is Francis, too. - Is he named after mom, and that's how he's a junior? - No, no, no, his dad is F-R-A-N-C-I-S, and his mom is F-R-A-N-C-E-S. So his parents are Francis and Francis. - This is the Francis household. Everybody's Francis here. - It'd be amazing if his mom's maiden name was Kelly without the E also, that'd be hilarious. - Just a why. - But they're all Francis and they name him Francis. - That is fucked up, and junior, so nobody knows who he's named after. - No, no. - What's his middle name? - No, their R is his middle, or no A is his, he's not a junior, he's only his first name is after his dad. - Got it. - So he was born in Cleveland here, and he went to St. Ignatius High School, and he also attended Ohio State University. Then he went to Butler University as well, to obtain his master's degree. - Yeah, that is a 2007. - Yeah, so this guy is, he does stuff. - Very smart. - He knows how to fill out paperwork, and like apply for things, and I'm impressed. - He shows up. - He shows up, he has like reports done on time. - Yeah. - I could never do any of this. That sounds like an insurmountable obstacle to do all that stuff. - Very organized. - Very organized. - That organization is incredible. - This shit and comedy are the only things I've ever like been together with. Yeah, everything else, I don't know what I'm doing. - It's a mess, a terrible employee. So he has two daughters that we'll talk about, one's a few years old, and then one is a baby, as we'll talk about, 'cause he's gonna, he's gonna be fighting with his ex here about custody and things like that. So he is 46 years old, like we said in 2019, and he's got a ex here, an ex-girlfriend, named Heidi Marie Littlefield. It's just Little Enfield, Littlefield. She's 42 at the time. By the way, I looked them up, both of them drive horribly. They both have tons of speeding tickets and all sorts. - Really? - Both of them, yeah. Francis and Heidi, improper display of plates Heidi has. - Oh, Heidi. - That's usually like-- - Then we go in one, I think there's a specific spot. - Well, not that. That's a lot of times too, if someone else's tag is on your car, or you have someone else's plate and still have him properly. - She didn't just like bolt it to the sun, man, or something, sun visor. - She put it under her bumper. - We can't see it under there. No, I think that's a lot of times they charge you for that when you have like, let's say you have another car and you take that plate, and it's not a stolen plate, but it's not the plate that belongs on that car. - It's one that has legit stickers on it 'cause your other one's expired and you're just doing this until you can get the money to get. - I have one car on the road and one car not. Let's make 'em both on the road now. - Let's make 'em both the same car. - And she got tickets, by the way, less than a year apart for going 53 and a 35 and 52 and a 35. I bet they were at the same place too, I guarantee you. - Yeah, son of a bitch. - You got me again? - Got me again. Now, they have a baby named Brinley in 2019. So they have a little girl, these two. Pretty much immediately they're not, I don't think by the time the baby's born, I don't think they're together anymore. And they are having a serious, they're always fighting these two. - Not on the same page from the start. - Not from the very beginning here. I don't know, I mean, just enough to get her pregnant and that was about it. And then from there on it was, we don't like each other anymore. And Heidi does not want Francis to have a relationship with the baby. - Really? - She also doesn't want her adult children to interact with Kelly. They're not his kids, they're just her adult. She's got a bunch of kids from, she's got five kids at this point. And then in 2020, she's gonna get pregnant again. - My God, ladies. - So she's got five kids ranging in age from the 20s on down to this baby baby. - Still fertile as fuck. - Oh yeah, yeah, down to a baby baby. So she really likes to have some kids here. So she doesn't want her adult kids to hang out with him either, even though they liked him, I guess. So it's very weird. So this all goes on all through 2020, where they're fighting about custody and they're going through the courts now. Whereas in January of 2021, they have a hearing scheduled for a custody thing and it's a whole big kerfluffle. - 'Cause you don't just get to say no. I mean, I have rights. - You have parental rights. Yeah, if you pay child support, you get to see your kids and that's just how it works here. So police get a call on October 27th, 2020. Okay, now they get a call. It's not the emergency number. It's not like 911, it's the administrative number this person calls. - The non-emergency. - Non-emergency, yeah. I'd like to talk to somebody about something type of shit. I need, you know, the houses on fire come right now. The baby's turning blue. Like it's none of that shit. - Give me some guidance on this legal question that I have. - Well, not really a legal question. It's more of a statement. It is, he says, quote, it's a male voice and he says, there's a possible crime that's going to happen in Zionsville, Indiana that could take someone's life. - There's, it hasn't yet started. - I know of a murder plot is what he's saying. That's a very like, you know, I'm trying to be professional way of saying, I know some people are going to kill some other people. He said, quote, this is 942 PM October 27th, 2020, he said, quote, you can't let this situation go down. That's all he would say though. That's what he calls, that's the Clark County Sheriff's Office, which isn't the county we're in here and not the county where this is supposed to take place. Then at 1027 PM, the same guy calls the Boone County Sheriff's Office in Indiana and says, quote, I don't really know this gentleman, but I know the person he's associated with and I've heard something that could be bad happening to the gentleman because of a custody issue. - Oh boy. - So they're like, okay, well, who, this is way too vague. You can't just go out in the street and go, who's planning on killing somebody now? - Yeah. - A name. - Some names may be a location. - A phone number would be terrific, maybe. - Phone number would be amazing. - Hey, you're going to kill that guy, don't. And then you hang up. - Heard about a merc plot. Let's talk. - This is the cops, don't kill that guy. - Yeah. - Hey, it's the cops. - How often would murder plots be? If the cops called you and said, hey, don't kill that guy, you probably would 'cause you'd be like, shit, they know I'm gonna do it, I can't do it now. - Hey, we know it hasn't happened yet, but we heard tell it may, how about don't? - Don't, hey, how about maybe just try not to, if that's possible. - What if you don't? Could you not? - I'm not. - And maybe that, try that. - So he continued, his name is Fran and the lady's name is Heidi Littlefield. Now we're getting somewhere. - Here we go. - Yeah. So the phone call the Boone County ended with him promising to call back with Littlefield's address. I'll get her address and I'll call you back, okay? He never called back. - Maybe still looking. - And the cops just went, I don't know, and just went on with their shit. They never followed up on it. They didn't go, let's look up Heidi Littlefield. Maybe we can find out where she lives, go talk to her. Nothing, they just went, I don't know, he'll call back if it's real. - Somebody might die, here's some names, I'll call back with an address. We'll wait on you forever. - And they just-- - Will and definitely, I called 911 when I was six and they called right back. - Right back, well he didn't call 911. He called the administrative line. - Great point. - They called 911, they would have had his number, but this line doesn't save the phone numbers in there. 'Cause it's not the emergency line. So they don't know who called. - Maybe they should change the line. - Maybe they should keep, you know what, those little caller ID things from like the 90s, remember the little box? - Those came free with a line. - And you could click back the fucking, from the time that shit was turned on. I mean, they had it all in there, so. - So far, yeah. - This is very strange. He did give the Ohio dispatch or some, his contact information before saying that he wanted to talk to someone about stopping a plot against his ex-wife's ex-boyfriend. This is Heidi's ex-husband. - Oh, bull. - Yeah, he said the whole thing sounded, it felt like and sounded like a movie or a soap opera he said. So that was it. Then this is, he said that my daughter, who's a daughter that I share with her, is the one who told me about this. So I think it might be real. - So the kid knows? - 22-year-old daughter, Logan, knows about this. She'll be a big part of this whole thing. He said it was a multi-state murder plot. There's people from everywhere coming. I don't know what difference that makes, where they're from, but multi-state, two people being involved from Ohio and another two, including the victim, Livin' Indiana. He said it's about part of my family and my ex-wife and a new guy, and all kinds of scary stuff, unquote. All kinds of scary stuff is going on. - They're spiders. - Jesus. So a Clark County snakes are everywhere. - You've seen those hiss and Clark. - Oh man. - They just got 'em. - Scary, it's a Freddy Krueger I saw. I saw the face. I could see it. A Clark County Sheriff's Office deputy contacted him, according to a call sheet record, and advised him of the process for a welfare check. They said this is what you have to say to get a welfare check going. So then he calls back and says, I'm making an anonymous phone call about someone's life possibly being in danger, and I wanted them to do a wellness check, but he wouldn't give his name this time, it's anonymous. He did give a Heidi Littlefield, but he said I don't ever address. And the dispatcher said, do you wanna look and call me back? And he said, okay, and then never called back. Didn't leave his number, and they don't know his name. But they know two different departments know Heidi Littlefield is planning on killing a guy. That they do know. - Well at least they've heard. - They've heard. Problem is he didn't call either actual jurisdiction of where this man lives. - Where's that? - In Carmel, which is Hamilton County. They are not told at all about this. So they have no idea, they're never warned. These other two departments are warned. So yeah, they said it was the administrative line, which does not show caller ID, calls that go to that line through a dial tree system before getting to dispatch according to. So it goes like through a couple of other numbers. So it shows probably an internal number. It doesn't show what the external is. - In 2019, this is- - This is what I mean. - This is 1987. - This is 2019, these people are on Instagram. These people are on fucking TikTok. Never mind Instagram. These people are on TikTok going, I don't know, we ain't got the number and then doing a stupid dance. That's what they're doing right now in 2019. - Yeah, there's been a whole country of people bathing each other in water for ALS by now. - Oh god. - This is unbelievable. - Five years before this for Christ's sake. (laughing) - This is unbelievable. - This is crazy. So this all stems from these custody problems. Now, Francis is the father of Heidi's younger than two-year-old daughter at this point. She's born in 2019. They have a hearing scheduled for January 27th, 2021 because Francis claims that Heidi was quote, violating the parenting time order. And police said they had a court hearing scheduled here due to Fran's allegation of this. So the main concern was Heidi not allowing Fran to pick up the child when it's his time to. - Yeah, he's allowed. - And that she was allowed, she would stay in his house during the parenting time. She'd sit there and watch. It's like listen, supervise this darn on this thing. - And even supervise is not you. - Yeah, you don't get to fucking watch. Yeah, you don't get to hang out with your arms crossed fucking complaining the whole time. - Judging. - Nope, he claimed she was not letting him pick the daughter up and just wouldn't leave. So during this time, she is pregnant with her sixth child, by the way. Heidi as well. - Oh dear, she has the pregnant pregnant. - So think about through all this, she's got five kids, one of them a baby and she's pregnant while she's plotting. So this is some diabolical shit here. - Heard not his that she's pregnant? - No, no, no, somebody else's. - Somebody else's, yeah. She's got a bunch of, there's a bunch of different dads involved here. So her daughter is Logan Marie Runyon. That's the 22 year old who she tells about this plot. And at some point during this, after Kelly, 'cause in March 2020, Francis had filed the papers to get better custody and complain about her visiting and all that kind of shit. So it's been going on a long time. During this, Heidi got upset and was like, I don't want to fucking deal with this guy in court. I don't want him to see the kids, or the kid, period. So she approached two of her adult daughters, not Logan, two other adult daughters that she has. And said, would you guys help me purchase some drugs so I could poison Francis? I'm in a poison friend. Remember that guy that I had this kid with? Gonna poison him. You guys want to help me? They said, no, you fucking lunatic. I don't know. - No, no, your sister's dad. - Yeah, not doing this. This is insane. So they refuse to help her, actually. But they don't like-- - Go buy drug, like what kind of like prescription or like fucking cold? - You'll hear, yeah, no, it's coming. - Oh boy. They said, no, so then she went to Logan Runyon, the 22 year old, I guess she just went down an age. Pretty soon the two year old, she's gonna be like, look, you got it? I know you don't quite understand what I'm saying, but you need to focus. - Yeah. (laughing) - She said, listen, will you help me get some poison and some fentanyl? That's what I'll put in him. And I'll kill this fucking guy. So-- - She's been watching. - You can help me do that. And she says, I'll give you some of the life insurance proceeds that the daughter that the new baby is gonna get 'cause she's got life insurance for the baby. And so, you know, it'll be worth your time, don't worry about it. (laughing) So Logan says, sure, why not? I'll help out. - Logan. - Logan, I'll help kill this guy. - You know where to get fentanyl, Logan, you monster. - Let's face it, it's Indiana. It's, I mean, I feel like any of those kind of drugs are probably pretty easy to come by in the Midwest as far as any of the manufacturer drugs. - Yeah, you'll probably just buy anything and you'll get-- - It's in there. Yeah, it's in there, probably. - It's a bonus this week, yeah. - So Logan has a boyfriend named Robert James Walker. He's 29 years old and she-- - Well, RJ, yeah. - She recruits all RJ into this. Come on, RIMJOB, help me out here. (laughing) So-- - Yeah, yeah. - Logan purchases the fentanyl. She finds the fentanyl, straight fentanyl. Now, there's some people, for some reason, do that as their drug that's not just mixed in. I actually just like fentanyl. - She just found real ass fentanyl. - She found fentanyl and on October of 2020, Heidi brings Fran some soup. Now, she would have to be, 'cause I'm not eating this bitches soup if I'm him. - Never. - I'm not having anything-- - I don't give a, I'm not eating a fucking thing you make. - We're fighting in court, but she brings him some miso soup. (upbeat music) This show, Small Town Murder is sponsored by BetterHelp. - Betterhelp.com. - Absolutely, and maybe your social battery, how's where you're monitoring that right now? You drain down too much socializing from holidays, not enough, maybe some people hole up in the winter. And therapy is the thing. Therapy can help give you some self-awareness so you can build a social life that's not gonna drain you or leave you wanting more here. So we totally are 100% advocates of therapy here. - Yep. - It's great for you. There's a million things it can help you with, and this is one of them because social stuff is something that we all, it's really hard not to struggle with nowadays, especially even social media mixed in the mix. It's difficult, it really is. - Overwhelming. - Therapy can help, and if you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. We very much recommend it entirely online, designed to be convenient and flexible, it's suited to your schedule, you fill out this brief questionnaire, they very quickly match you with a licensed therapist, and no additional charge, you can switch therapists at any time. Which is a big deal 'cause that's, sometimes you're not vibing with somebody and you need to vibe with somebody, no additional charge for that at all. 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You know what I mean? - Yeah, that's the answer right there. - I think that's part of probably the- - You're at no idea what that shit is that pops up. - Who knows what that, what is that? I don't know. - I don't know. - It could be, you know, a napalm? I don't know what's in here. - Yeah, what's in that? That could be Anna for a reason. It just clouds up with that juice. - Clouds up and it's pretty delicious afterwards. - It certainly is. That's the only way I'll eat fucking soy is because of that shit. Tofu, whatever that is. Whatever those chunks are, it's the only way I'll eat it because that's so fucking incredible. So, yeah, you can put anything in there. It'll taste good. - And it just, even the texture, the texture is weird, but it just disappears right now anyway, so it gives a shit. - That's why we discovered soups, I think, as a people. We're like, we have- - Let's make everything. - There's awful shit that we don't want to eat, but if we put it in a soup, we can make it taste better, make it have the taste of the soup and just get it down. - Get that chicken broth flavor on it. It's fine. - That's gonna be delicious every time. Get some bouillon in there and you're good. - Some beef, whatever. - So they bring over the soup laced with fentanyl. - Okay. - And they think he's gonna eat the soup with the fentanyl and then drop dead. That's the plan. - This is gonna be fun. - Which is funny because they do, there's a, for a long time, the last year, it's kind of, it's been debunked a lot, but for a long time, there was this, like, myth about fentanyl where, like, if a cop touched fentanyl and he dropped dead the next, that never, ever, ever, ever, ever happened. That's not true, not real. - There's a mist, people wander around malls, spraying it. - Not real, that's not true or real. - You will not die if you touch. It's just not how it works. It's not that, they wanted it to be a thing that it's not. So, not that it's good, I'm just saying, but that's not true either. - It doesn't take a lot, right. It doesn't take a lot that you would just to die from it, but there were no cops, like, - Accidentally, and then they dropped fucking dead. That doesn't happen. So, that's what they're thinking, I think, though, that, like, he'll have a little bit of it, he'll just die, it's just gonna drop right dead. So, he didn't, though. - No. - He didn't die. He ate the soup, he got sick from it, but he just thought, maybe it got cold, he didn't eat at the right temperature, didn't hold well. Maybe. - Or maybe it was something else. - Who knows? - It wasn't the soup. - Who knows? So, later on in the same month of October, Heidi talks to Robert Walker, her daughter's boyfriend again, and she's like, "Can you help me with something?" She's more fentanyl, no, no, no, no, no, no. This time I'm gonna do it right. You know when he hit men by any chance? - Oh, geez. - Which that always goes well when someone starts looking for a hit man. - Do you know a hit man? - You know a hit man. He acknowledged that he, quote, "new someone." Right away, I don't want this guy going out with my daughter anymore, either. He's willing to help with murders, and he knows hit men. Get the fuck away from my 22-year-old. - Oh, boy. - Yeah. - So, he said he knew-- - And he can get fentanyl, like, right now. - Right now, yeah, 'cause he can grab it, no problem. So, he gave, so she said, "Okay, great. "Here's $2,500 as a down payment to give to the hit man." - Oh, uh-huh. - So, you give this to the hit man. Instead-- - 10% up front, what is that? - We don't know, maybe 2,500'll get the ball rolling, I feel like. - That's your retainer fee. - Yeah, well, yeah, you keep that on retainer. You never know when you're gonna need him. You gotta have a hit man ready to go. Otherwise, it's like a doctor's appointment. There's gonna be a lag in appointments for new to take a couple months to get in there. So, they take the $2,500 and never contact the person and instead just spend the money on hotels and drugs. - Oh, yeah, 'cause rim jobs not fucking reliable. - Nope, they just spend $2,500 on seedy, middle Indiana motel rooms and drugs and just do that for a couple of weeks and piss all the money. - And Francis is thriving. - Yep, and he's like, "This is, Francis is doing fine." He's all recovered from the miso incident, he's ready to go. So, this, by the way, it's fucking insane. So, there's the miso soup, then there's this, that this is attempt number two at killing him with the miso soup. Then, wow, January 14th, 2001. - Yeah. - Fran sends Heidi a text and he says, "Did you do something to the oatmeal that was in my fridge?" That's the text. (both laughing) - Imagine texting your ex. - Did you do something to the oatmeal that was in my fridge? It's all gone too far at that point. Just that text should tell everyone, this shit has gone way too far. We should never talk to each other again. So, she replied, "What the actual fuck are you talking about?" - Okay, that's a fun conversation. - That's fun. She says, "You were in my fridge last night and it tasted funny after a couple bites and now I'm lightheaded." - Whoa. (both laughing) - She says, "Who the fuck puts oatmeal in the fridge?" Is her response to that? Which, for once, I agree with her at that point. You eat oatmeal once it gets cold, you throw it away. There's no saving oatmeal for later. - Is it the cylinder of dry oats and puts that in the fridge? - It's a fucking bowl of oatmeal that he had. - He made a bowl of oatmeal and stuck that in the fridge. - And then, there's gonna reheat oatmeal. - What are you doing? - Oatmeal's a one-time thing. You got one shot with oatmeal, sorry. - Who the fuck knows if that's what happens when you eat that? - Yeah, maybe you shouldn't know. - Nobody's ever done that before. Nobody's reheated oatmeal. - That's why she said, "Who the fuck puts oatmeal in a fridge?" - Yeah, it's 12 cents a tube, man. Throw it away. - That's the other thing. You buy a big, it's oats. It's not a lot. - It's nothing. - It's nothing. - It's three dollars for a thousand pounds. - Maybe you had some fancy steel-cut shit. (both laughing) I love that too. But Target, steel-cut's still $2.99. - They found a way to charge an extra dollar for oatmeal. It's steel-cut. What the fuck did you cut it with before? - Yeah, what is that, everything that's cut is usually steel-cut. Do you have wood blades that you're cutting it with otherwise? - Was it rusty aluminum? What was the other one? - What were you cutting it with? Exactly. Bullshit. He said-- - Should I have had my tetanus shot before I ate oatmeal before? What are we doing? - Why is this happening? She said, "I don't know anything you do or want to. "Your life and the stuff you say/do is beyond me." - Okay. - So I don't know why oatmeal made you sick. - Yeah. - January 15th, the next day, he exchanges some text messages with Heidi about the custody situation before the subject changes at 136 and they go on to just nothing shit. So the problem is, that's the last time anybody hears from him is January 15th. The last text he sends are to Heidi. Now-- - What do they say? - They're just about the custody stuff. What am I going to see her when is this? - Right. - Well, blah, blah. So then we find out on January 14th, after the whole back and forth of the text message about the oatmeal or before that actually, because this is earlier, this prompts the text about the oatmeal. Her daughter here, Logan and Heidi purchased more fentanyl that day. That same day, Logan climbs through a fucking window to break into his house. - Oh boy. - Heidi Lord Fran away from the house to go shopping for the baby. Like, let's go shopping together for the baby. Let's try to be nice to each other. While she's gone, Logan's breaking into the house. - Okay. - And that's inside, Logan laced the refrigerated oatmeal with fentanyl. That's what happened. - So he got stoned. - He got fucked up off fentanyl. He had oatmeal with fentanyl, which is not the, I've never heard of that because it's a delivery system for fentanyl before. For like people to get high. - He's hitting vehicle. - They're not like, man, you got the Quaker, fuck yeah. Man, yo, you got the Quaker oats, I got the fentanyl, let's get it on. You just never hear that before. It's very rare. - Steel cut, steel cut gets me high. - Steel cut baby, it's the only way to go. Nah, man, that other shit's bullshit. You won't get high at all. - It's a real ride. - Oh man. So the next day, Fran texted about, you know, just put some shit in my oatmeal, I feel funny, I feel light headed, that whole conversation. Shortly afterward, Logan and Heidi, along with the baby, drive over to Fran's house. Logan saw him through a window lying on the kitchen floor. Okay, he's lying on the kitchen floor. She entered the residence through a window and opened the front door for Heidi. So now they're both in there, Logan and Heidi and the baby, who brings a two-year-old to a murder plot, first of all. He's very rare that you see that. Well, I'm sorry, it's my day with the kids. I don't know what you want. I'm sure there was a mob hitman at some point that like popped up behind somebody and they heard like the baby cry, they turned around, what the fuck? And he was like, it's my day with the fucking kids, all right? And then he shot him. What do you want from me? - It's my parenting time. - What do you want from me? It's quality time, pow. And then he shot the guy. - The courts said I got rights. - I got rights now. Come on baby, let's cut him up. Cut him up and bury him. So he's breathing abnormally, Fran is, and gasping for air. 'Cause he's taking too much fentanyl here. So Heidi grabs one of his neckties, 'cause he's like, what the fuck, why won't he die? This is crazy. - Yeah, I seen this on the news and it's not happening. - It's not dying, like these cops who touched fentanyl three days ago, I don't get it. So she goes and gets one of his neckties, ties it around his neck and lifts him up probably about two to three feet several times, slamming his head to the floor. So she lifts him up by the tie and then pushes him down and tries to like bash his head open and that'll kill him. - Does she not get it? Like that doesn't look like a fentanyl over 'cause if you do that. - He's laying there in like in warm up pants and a t-shirt with his fucking power tie on and fucking massive head wounds. Yeah, this is normal. This is what people do when they're on fentanyl. - Yeah, it's got a shirt from a car wash on for Christ's sake. - It's a giveaway, man. - Yeah, it's a charity benefit car wash even. - It says Paco on it. It's just, it was some guy's shirt. So she can't lift him up high enough to really give him a good slam though to kill him. So then she just chokes the fuck out of him with it. With the neck. - Okay, now it's now it's stupid. Overdose, see, obviously. - Head wounds, a fixation. - Everything. - Overdose. This man is just really, fuck. That's a really terrible way to go. - Off all this 'cause he wants to see his daughter. Like this. - Right. - He wasn't fucking with her on any other account as I'd like to see my daughter sometimes. That's it. - I wanna be a good dad. Can I do that? - Kill him. Fentanyl. - Unbelievable. - So apparently Walker, the boyfriend had advised Heidi to try to get Logan to snap his neck. Get Logan to snap his neck. That's what they were doing with the necktie. They were trying to like lift him up and snap his neck. But Logan couldn't do it. So that's why they started to smash. 'Cause she originally got down, tried to segull him. Just tried to like fucking twist his head off with her bare hands. Grown man, it's really hard to do that with. Yeah, it's just, what's that done? Didn't work like that. Like in Kung Fu movies. So they were like, fuck. So they got the necktie and started to smash it. - Isn't that crazy how a neck is that fucking strong? - I mean, our bodies have realized that that's a weak point. (laughing) - Shit. So his ex, Courtney Nugent, he's got an ex and another kid, a nine year old daughter. So on her birthday, which is like the next day, he doesn't show up to come get her. - And he's a good goddamn dad. - He's a decent dad, he's reliable. So she said she had last heard from him two days earlier and she contacts the police. Okay, now at the same time, the same time this happened, one of Heidi's relatives contacts the police and says, I think this lady I'm related to killed her ex. - So she, oh. - Yeah, she said she made several incriminating statements like, quote, he's better off dead. I didn't mean to kill him last time. - Oh my God. - And I might as well just say I did it and say and just say I'm crazy and pregnant and then laughed. - You know, hormones and all ha ha ha. - I've been brain. - Wow. - I've never heard of that as a defense. - No, for violent murder. Three attempts at it too. This baby really wants him dead. That's all I keep getting. I think the baby's possessed, I could feel it. - And I didn't mean to, I didn't mean to last time, what the fuck, that's implying multiple tries. - Then she said that Fran was abusive, which nobody else said. And that quote, she would be failing her daughter if the dude didn't end up dead. - The dude. - The dude, man. - The deuterino. - The deuterino. So after the call from the ex, the Courtney Nugent saying, I don't know what's going on here, police still haven't connected any of this, even though her name has been brought up by this lady's gonna kill a guy, this lady, you know, I think this lady might have killed a guy, nobody connects anything. The caramel police head over to the house and knock on his door. Nobody adds-- - Why they do this is a welfare check? - It's like a wellness 'cause they called, they're just gonna go, let's go check on him. They knock on the door, no one answers, they just leave. - No, we'll get him next time. - Nevermind, no one's home. - He'll tell us if he's okay when he gets back. - So they just leave, okay? Then the girlfriend, or the ex said with their child said, "There's something fucking wrong here, "the cops won't do it, I'll go over there." So she went in and broke into his fucking house and found his body dead on the couch on January 18th. He's been dead for three days. - On the couch, wow. - Right, you know, three feet from the front door at the cops are knocking at and said, "Well, I guess he's not here." - Oh, they didn't even smell nothing, huh? - Nothing, no, they did not yet. - Or they smelled it and they were like, "I don't want that paperwork." - It's also January, it's cold, you know. - Oh yeah, that's probably nice there, yeah. - So she and saw him on the couch, so then she fucking, she said there was no signs of forced entry that she saw, which I'm sure I don't think she's trained to look for signs of forced entry. - Except for hers. - Yes, except for her. - I mean, I just beat the shit out of this place. - I mean, there's me, I kicked in the back door, rather than that, nothing other than that. So emergency personnel arrive and they examine Kelly and they say, "Prolong signs of death." Yeah, no shit, he's been dead for days. - Great call, guys. - They said, "Evidence of blunt forced trauma "to his eye and head, but the cause of death "was determined to be asphyxia due to strangulation "and neck compression." - Yeah, and also a cute fentanyl intoxication as a contributing cause as well. They showed that the fentanyl would have made him groggy and unable to defend himself. They said, "Fentanyl can result in a slow death "and take up to 12 more hours for a person to die "after ingesting the drug." - Holy shit. - Yeah, it's like, if he took too much time at all, like you'd be fine, but then a day and a half later you just dropped dead. - That is fucked up. - Yep, the fluid found in his lungs indicated he died a slow death 'cause he was dying and then she just sped it up. He would have died anyway, but she made sure to speed it up some. The fluid found in his lungs indicated he died a slow death and the level of fentanyl in the system could have been considered as the cause of death had that been the only finding at the autopsy. If his head wasn't bashed in and he wasn't strangled, that was. (laughing) So they-- - Except for two very obvious things. - Yeah, so they classify it as a homicide. Seems like it's like triple homicide. Like it's three different ways to kill him. - It could have been a way. (laughing) - They did everything but shoot him. So he also suffered from blunt force trauma to the head, the left hand, the elbow, and knees. And they said also the fentanyl. So January 23rd, 2021, Heidi's ex-husband contacts the police and told them that her daughter Logan told him months earlier. This is the guy who would call the cops in October that Heidi paid Logan's boyfriend, Robert Walker, $2,500 to find someone to kill Fran. - Why didn't you go to the cops, Logan? What the fuck? - They're writing the shit down now. So they said that Logan was with her mother on January 14th and that both were in and out of Fran's residence on the evening of Thursday the 14th through the afternoon of Friday the 15th. They came back and forth multiple times like check on him, he's dying, but he's not dead. What should we do? Then they talked to Walker and he says that Heidi told him that Logan put fentanyl in Fran's oatmeal sometime on January 14th. So they said Heidi advised the ex-boyfriend that Heidi and Logan found Fran aspirating on the kitchen floor, ex-boyfriend advised that Heidi also mentioned a lanyard around Fran's neck and believed it to be involved in the incident. It was a necktie, it turns out. They also told police that Heidi asked him over the past several months about how much fentanyl would it take to overdose someone versus kill someone? - Like the internet exists. - Yeah, look that shit up, dude. You're asking around about that? Well, last time I killed the guy with fentanyl, this is what I did. So October, she had been talking about this all through October and they now have video recordings, her ex that called the cops had made recordings of her talking about this, the protect himself. So he now gives it to the police. He could have done that in October. - Yeah. - That's the problem. And on this, she's talking about planning to plant drugs on Fran and how she wants Fran dead. So her original plan was to give him a bunch of fentanyl, then plant drugs in the house, like he was just a big drug user who accidentally overdosed, but that didn't quite work out that way. So they arrest Logan here and Logan tells police that her mother tried to convince her to take the blame for the whole case. She's 22, she's not 14, where you don't get in trouble. You go to jail forever, let me be out. Your daughter. - Do me a favor. - This Heidi is heartless, man. - How much you love mama? - Fuck, heartless Heidi over here. This is brutal, man. Hardcore Heidi is not cool. - So how do you do that to your kid? Like, I don't know how, I mean, she already involved her, so whatever, but telling her, just say you did it, that's fucking unbelievable. - At 22, just say you did it. You'll go to jail forever, but I'll be free. - Right. I got a baby. - Yeah, I'll be free. It's fine. - You don't have a baby. - No, I'll take care of you. - You don't have stuff in jail, don't worry. I'll make sure you have Snickers bars. I'll keep being robbed. - I'll have the baby visit. - It's fine. So Walker is arrested here on a separate incident that had nothing to do with this, and then they were like, oh yeah. - Oh, that's great. - We were looking for, 'cause he's a general scumbag, and he tells detectives that she reached out to him in October looking for someone to take care of her problem, quote unquote, her problem. He said, yeah, she gave me $2,500, but I spent it on drugs and had no intention of doing what she asked me. He's like, I was not gonna, I was just trying to scam her. I'm a drug addict, not a murderer. - I got problems. - Yeah, come on, Jesus. I'm a scumbag, but come on. - Yeah. - I'm an asshole, but I'm not a scumbag. - There it is. - He advised that he was going to get another 2,500 once Fran was killed. That was the plan. So it was five grand total she was gonna pay, which as we found, not enough money to kill your husband. - Far too affordable. - Maybe in 1958 you could pay that, but. - That's cheaper than any used car on the market. - Nowadays, if someone's charging less than 50 grand they're a cop or they're a crack head who's gonna steal your money. One of the two, they're not real. - Go further, James. If you can afford it, if it seems reasonable. - Maybe you're very wealthy. - It's a cop. - Maybe you're very wealthy. Maybe you can afford it, but it better hurt. You gotta go 50 grand. - It's gonna be six figures, a lot. - Yeah, it's a lot. So he said that Logan had told him that when they found him Fran still in his home, he was breathing and quote Heidi grabbed Fran's favorite tie and tried to strangle him and smash his head into the pavement. And he said that Heidi bludgeoned his head against the floor. - Incredibly personal. - Yeah, Walker alleged that Heidi had told him that Fran was abusive to her, their baby, and everybody else, which no one else says here. So he also says, oh by the way, I was around for the, I got the fentanyl for the miso soup incident also. So there's that. So now they know there was like four attempts to murder this guy before they finally did it. - The Angie's List you know and trust is now Angie. And we're so much more than just a list. We still connect you with top local pros and show you ratings and reviews. But now we also let you compare upfront prices on hundreds of projects and book a service instantly. We can even handle the rest of your project from start to finish. 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For the place you've put down roots, trust Amiga home insurance. Amiga, empathy is our best policy. - Now the charges, Heidi is gonna be charged with murder and conspiracy to commit murder, two counts of that. And also counts on acquiring the fentanyl, transporting somebody else to the scene. All this type of shit. - We should drugs too, shit. - Yeah, she's got fucking forcibly giving people fentanyl. You can't do that. It's a whole other, and she did that on separate occasions. Those are separate charges. - She's not even supposed to be in control of fentanyl. - Yeah, then they find once they get everybody in there and start looking at their text messages, they find some real fun stuff. - Oh boy. - Apparently here, they had talked about Heidi had threatened her daughter, and basically forced her to continue assisting her in this plan, basically threatened that I'll say that you did the oatmeal. - Oh shit. - If you don't help me, sorry, type of shit. So that comes out, that's not wonderful. Apparently after the murder, Logan had walked outside and waited in the car for 10 minutes until Heidi came out, and then they drove to a restaurant where Heidi threw the necktie in a dumpster. - All right, yeah. - Wow, so Logan is gonna be charged with murder and conspiracy to commit murder, and Walker's gonna be charged with two counts of conspiracy to commit murder. - Yeah, so they killed him with a necktie and then took it with him, huh? - Then took it with them and threw it out. - That looks so bad. - That looks-- - Upon autopsy and finding the body, it's clear. - Someone strangled this thing. - It couldn't be more obvious. - It would be less funky if he was wearing a car wash giveaway t-shirt and a necktie. Maybe he's just weirdly formal, we don't know. - This is very eclectic, this guy. - God damn it. So police, they asked the cops, hey, didn't you get warned about this like months in advance? And this is fucking hilarious. They say, quote, I think in this case, one of the things we take away from this is, could we have dug a little deeper? Maybe, maybe. That's what the cops, that's their fucking to the press. Could we have tried our-- - We're gonna use it. - Yeah, we're gonna use it as a learning. - It's gonna be a training exercise here. - This is, we're gonna chalk it up to learning. What do you do? - What do you do if a guy calls up multiple times to various departments talking about a very intricate murder plot? Nothing or something, those are your A and B options. Oh, no, it's something now. Now we say something, we do. We don't know what. - You guys are hurting us. When you see something, what do you guys do, what do you do? - That's fucking amazing. - There's only one good answer, guys. - I love it. Could we have dug a little deeper? Maybe. - Nah. - That's what he said. Maybe. He said, would it have changed the outcome? I don't know. - Well, I mean. - If we did something, maybe. - It's possible that someone wouldn't be fucking dead. - We've done things and nothing happened. So, maybe. - Yeah, maybe. - He said, but there was some things we could have done better. Absolutely. - Ah, what is this a fucking post game NFL? - It's a coach going, yeah. Could we have played against the deep ball better? - Yeah, we probably could have, but our run defense was strong. - Run from proof, run from proof. - Yeah, we're gonna work on our defensive backfield. Maybe play a little more nickel. I'm not sure, but we're gonna definitely work on it. - End of the day, we got the job done. We came out with a W. - Oh shit. He said, could we have done better? Absolutely. Just like it is in every single call that we take every single day. Could always do better. He's trying to say. Then they go on to talk. - That's the dead man. - They talk more about it. They're like, yeah, but you really fucked up bad. It's just bad. And they said, listen, it was very vague what he said. He only had a crime and a name of a person who was gonna commit it. Super vague. What are we supposed to move on that? An active murder plot that someone has the name of the murder? We can't get it. We need more information. - You guys don't understand. When there's only one person with that name here? - I mean, come on. - And they live clear across town. - Our rule is, our rule is we need social security numbers for everyone involved. Murder, murder, murder, and then we'll look at it. Otherwise we can't do it. They said he didn't leave his contact info. Littlefield lived in Sheridan, which was not the correct town that he said. So they could have just looked her up. I have a site called Bin Verified. I could have looked her up and saw exactly who she was and where she was. I did it for this episode. I found out about her traffic ticket. So you could do that. They have a whole police computer that has more shit in it. They can probably find it. - Oh God, I can't imagine what they can look at. And they go on to say that, you know, we didn't get his ID, his caller ID. And they said, when it gets down to us, we have the trunk that it came in on, but we don't have the particular number. It's just sort of the way the telecom works. Well, maybe it shouldn't. - No, no, it's not, it's 2019. - The Boone County Major, Mike Beard, note said that he's hiding something. I'll tell you that much. - Yeah, yes. - Said that the dispatcher could have reached out to the town that the guy said was, this was taking place with the information about Heidi and asked the ex-husband for his phone number, because they didn't even ask him, can we get your phone number? - Nothing. - Nothing. They said he could have asked and the dispatcher could have also tried to press for more specific details about the alleged plot too. The guy says, quote, we're very open to say it wasn't a perfect call. You were very open to it? I would hope so. - Who would say we're closed off to? - Yeah, we don't think so. - And people agree, there's a guy named Joseph Jackelone. Hey, Joey Jackelone over here. - Well, Joey Jackelone. - Joey Jackelone, come over here, I ain't seen you in fucking years. I known this guy since we was 12, Joey Jackelone. Look at him, he's acting like he's too fucking, he's too big for me now, Joe. Joe, hey, come on. - Isn't Joe Jackel character from King of the Hill? Isn't that a Joe Jackel on the show? - I haven't watched King of the Hill in 30 years, I have no idea. No clue. - I think that's true. - That's, it sounds like somebody that would be on the show. - Yeah, that's a Mike Judge thing. This guy's a John Jay College of Criminal Justice adjunct professor and a former NYPD detective as well. - All right. - And he said that the dispatcher should have followed up on the details given here. He said, quote, she should have been a little more proactive and run Littlefield's name and see if anything comes up in the database anywhere. And at the very least, call over to Zion'sville police department and say, hey, this is what we got, this is a person's name and let them give it to a cop or a detective to handle it from there. That's how people who give a shit would handle it. - Or, you know what it is? It's where people who don't want to look like fools. It's called cover your ass, you know, to pass the buck, at least hand it off to somebody that can do, if you can't do anything. - These are just DMV employees are like, I don't know, come back with more information and they just hang up on it. - But if something happens, you look like a fucking asshole. - So the ex that made the call, her ex-husband, Heidi's ex-husband who made the October call, he repeatedly declines requests for media interviews, he won't talk at all, even though he's kind of the almost hero of the situation. And he's like, I don't want to talk about it. So Logan, prosecutors drop the murder charge against her after she agrees to plead guilty to conspiracy to commit murder and testify against her mother. - Oh shit. - Yes, her. - That's how a mom wants. - Ever all of her information is corroborated by autopsy. So they think she's telling the truth and her testimony that Heidi placed the necktie around her neck and lifted him off the ground several times and bang his head on the floor, was corroborated by the evidence of the injury to his voice box, Adam's apple, tongue and neck muscles. - Jesus. - So she pleads guilty there. She will end up serving you ma'am, may fuck off. 26 years in prison they sentence her to. - That's deep. - As part of the plea deal, it agrees, also calls for four years of probation afterwards and including the completion of a drug and alcohol treatment program and community service. And she also has to testify against her mother and her boyfriend. - Oh boy. - Yes, they asked her later on why she, why did you do this? Why did you participate in this fucking murder bluff? - What the fuck? - Your two sisters said no, why did you do it? She said, quote, because I love her and because we never really had a good relationship. How sad is that? This poor girl just wanted to get closer to her awful, terrible monster of a mother. And she said. - I was looking for a hug. - That's it. She had to give me an out of boy, an out of girl on it and I had been fucking psyched about it. That's what she wanted. - Ah, Jesus. - Wanted a mom to like me, wanted to have a better relationship. This'll, it'll bring you closer when you murder people, I guess. - Oh boy, well, certainly. - So. - Same prison sometimes. - Yeah, exactly, that same cell. Walker pleads too, he's gonna plead too. - Yeah. - All rim job? He was originally charged with two counts of conspiracy to commit murder and one where the victim died, a level one felony and one where the victim did not die, a level two felony. He agrees to plead guilty to conspiracy to commit murder. I think it's in the like non-death to the level two. That's what he pleads guilty to and they plan to drop the first charge here. And this is because the whole trio tried to poison a soup. He is going to spend, you sir, may fuck off 10 years in prison with an additional 10 years suspended plus four years of probation after he's done serving his time and he has to undergrow drug treatment as well. So 10 years, he was really the least culpable of anybody. But. - Yeah, I mean, without him and Aaron getting fentanyl low, right? - I don't know if Logan probably knew where to get fentanyl too, I think probably. - Yeah, you know. - You think if he knew it, she probably did. - No, he just, he just wanted a $2,500 vacation to India. - That's all, a tour of indie seed ear motels. Oh, wow, that's almost time served at that point. So they said. - He's in hell already for sure. - Yeah, his attorney said this plea is based on the limited involvement Robert had in the conspiracy and also the assistance that he provided to police. And during trial, he is going to testify against her. Logan's going to testify against her. The X is going to testify against her. They have the video of her saying if this dude's got to die, she's fucked. I mean, there is no, everybody's testimony lines up to all the autopsies. It looks like everyone in this whole story is telling the truth except for Heidi. So that's not great. They're going to pretty quickly find her guilty of everything they have here. - She went to trial. - She went to trial with this. Didn't even plead. - Balls. - Balls. Well, that's actually, I think they didn't want to give her a deal actually. 'Cause they have her dead to rights. There's no, this is a 100% slam dunk. Physical evidence. - Can I please? - Oh, no, no, no, no, no. - We would rather not. - That's why we gave those two, please. So they'll plead, they'll testify against you. - We'll spend the tax dollars. I mean, you're in trouble. - And they want a very big sentence on her too is the other thing. They didn't want her to get less of a sentence here. At the sentencing hearing, prosecutors ask for an 85-year sentence stating they weren't clear if the law allowed sentences for all three counts in this case to be served consecutively or not, but they'd like them to be and they'd like to get 85 years out of this. - Yeah, yeah. - So another one of her daughters testifies Alexis and she is one of the older ones who refused to participate in this murder plot. She is helping raise the three-year-old that is now parentless. She said, I think there is a negative effect to not having a mother, but when it comes to your mother being Heidi, you're better off without. That's what she said about her own mother in court. - Better off without a mom. - The baby's better off motherless than if that's her fuck, which is true. She got most of her kids. She's trying to get them involved in murder plots. Who the fuck would do that? So the other, his ex, Franz X. Courtney who found him, she also talks about everything here saying, well, what do you say to an evil person who wanted to destroy your life? She's saying, I don't know what to say to her, but she killed my fucking kid's father and that's very sad. She said, your children get to visit you on Mother's Day, write you a card, send you a letter. Even if they spew vitriol at you, they get to do it. My daughter will live forever knowing what she has lost unlike your daughter who will never have a memory of him. Meaning the two year old, it's true. So the defense, they asked the judge, they say, come on, give us concurrent sentences totaling 50 years. Give us a break here. They said she has no criminal record before the murder, just traffic bullshit, you know. And the judge says, yes, you know what? You are right about the lack of criminal history, but there's a big butt to this. - Yeah, that's not positive. - They get Heidi up there, anything to say for yourself hides? What do you think she's gonna say? - I didn't do it. - Quote, I did not have anything to do with this in any way, shape or form. - Ma'am. - Everyone is lying, including the videos of me saying I wanna kill people, not me. - Only one telling the truth. - Just me, yep. - Oh shit, you're so fucked. - For mitigating circumstances, she claims an abusive upbringing, but then they just bring out the pre-sentencing report that they just got the month before, and it says that in this report, she reported to the probation department that she was raised in a good home and had no domestic issues with her mother and stepfather. - Now she's saying. - And then she gets a month later, gets on the stand and goes a horrible upbringing, they're like, that's not what you said a month ago when we asked you that. - Well, you're only saying that now, 'cause you were saying that you didn't have anything to do with it? - That's it. - In this, the sentencing hearing the judge finds these following aggravating circumstances, Fran's vulnerability when she strangled him, the planning and premeditation of the offenses exceeded what was necessary to establish a conspiracy. I mean, you had a huge, you really had to fucking fight to keep it going here. Also, that the commission of the offense deprived the young baby of her parents and her plans to kill Fran resulted in prison sentences for her other daughter and this other guy who shouldn't have anything to do with it and the Heidi's threats against her daughter to cooperate in the plan too. So it's like, this is ridiculous. They do say, yes, lack of criminal history is a mitigating factor, but the aggravators substantially outweigh the sole mitigating circumstance here. So they are going to sentence her to, here we go. Oh, this is another thing. Well, we'll get to this. Also, she has not allowed, she's by court order to have no contact with Fran's two children, including her own three-year-old daughter. You are not allowed by the court. She can't come visit you. You can't write her letters, stay away. Contact with that child at all. Do not poison that fucking child. They said not withstanding little fields attempt to minimize the egregiousness of her offenses because of her difficult childhood and her alcohol abuse. She's offered no compelling evidence of restraint, regard and lack of brutality, she says. They are going to sentence her due to your depravity and the danger this court finds you pose to the community, including your children, including your children, and including the two remaining fathers of your children that are alive today. The court believes your children are better off to be protected from you rather than by you. They are in a safer place without you. And he says, you ma'am, may fuck off, 60 years for murder, 35 for conspiracy to commit murder resulting in death, 20 years for conspiracy to commit murder, not resulting in death. And those sentences will run consecutively for a total of 115 years. - So much for 85. - Fuck off, yeah. 30 extra years more than the prosecutors got there. They're like, thanks, thanks. - Yeah. - Those numbers mean so much more than life in prison, you know what I mean? - Oh, that's so bad. - Yeah, those numbers worked. - You are fucked and the judge credited her with 748 days of time served, so. - Not 700 years. - No, you got two years of time, so 113 years, really. So if you look at it there, it's more of a glass, you know, 99.99% full rather than. She appeals this, obviously. First of all, based on double jeopardy, she argues the dual convictions for murder and conspiracy to commit murder cannot stand because of the double jeopardy prohibition and maintains that the murder conviction must be set upside when applying the double jeopardy test. And they've said, no, not at all. These are totally separate things and separate acts. They all go together, fuck off. She also says the sufficiency of the evidence. No good. - No? - Yep. - She said primary cause of death was asphyxia due to strangulation rather than acute fentanyl intoxication. She, Logan testified a trial that Heidi strangled Kelly with a necktie and banged his head on the floor numerous times. She said that Fran was alive when she and Logan left the residence. So it wasn't me. Someone else must have come in and strangle them after that. Came in to rob the place and was like, "Oh, good, a guy 90% dead. Let me finish him off quick." And then left. - And then murder him. - Yeah, Heidi says also, maybe it wasn't me. - Oh, oh? - I didn't do it. She says that the state's evidence showed that Matthew Duncan, the father of one of her other children, had spoken with Logan and RJ about killing Kelly 'cause he was the one who called the cops and that his cell phone was tracked in the vicinity of Kelly's home on the afternoon of January 16th, which he was already dead for a day. And not right by his house, the vicinity. She said in light of this evidence, she claims there's a strong possibility that after they had left him almost dead, Duncan visited the home and strangled him to death. Just as a nice favor that you do for your exes. Let's finish something up for her. She says the state never presented any evidence to show that little field in any way aided, induced, or caused Duncan to kill Kelly. So he did it, it should be reversed. And also says there should be a lighter sentence. She says the, she says the, you know, this is ridiculous, I got sentenced to so much. It shouldn't have been consecutive. And they said, "Oh no, everything's great. Keep on keeping on." - Looks good. - See you in 2035, enjoy. (laughing) Or 2135. - Yeah, 22, 2135. - See you then, have fun. So the police say they go, "Are you guys gonna fix what fucking happened that you could have saved somebody's life?" - Yeah. - And here's a quote, "We're still in the process of updating our policies and everything else and trying to sort through all of that." So that's certainly something we'll be addressing as we go along, as far as how we are going to handle situations like that. The more we can expand on any of our policies, the better off we're going to be. They said, they need to focus on an emphasis on getting the basic information during these types. You know, what's your number? Who are you? Where is this happening? - You don't even have to ask those questions. If you have color, I fucking do. - Well they said they can't possibly change the whole telephone tree, that can't be changed. - You can pay from color ID. The Jack Alone guy said, "If they're gonna redo things, I'd make sure the dispatchers know how to ask all sorts of questions and gather all sorts of information from people who may be sometimes unwilling to give it." So there we go, everybody's in prison and Heidi will remain there, we'll say. - Forever. - The fucking poisoned oatmeal nightmare. So there we go, that is Indiana, Carmel or Carmel or whatever the fuck you wanna call it. There's that, if you enjoyed that, please, please, get on whatever app you're listening on, give us a review, it helps a lot. Follow us on social media @smalltownmurder on Instagram, @smalltownpot on Facebook, @murdersmall on Twitter, so follow those. In addition to that, shut up and give me murder.com, tickets to live shows, Durham is the next live show, May 31st, Durham, North Carolina, and then a virtual live show though, April the 20th, Saturday night, get in there and that's available for two weeks after that as well. 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