[MUSIC PLAYING] Fan Morning Show Sports net 590 to fan Ben Ennis. Fred, gutting. No worries for the Toronto Maple Leafs who were without William Neelander for mysterious and unknown reasons and got outplayed significantly on special teams had the clearly worst goal tender of the two on Saturday. The head coach, likely to be terminated if they lose this first round series. No worries, though, going into game two tonight in Boston. Literally, the only guy on the team that could have given that quote and it come across OK. Everybody else, I'd be like, I guess that's what you got to say. I feel like I want a little more tension coming out of this here. And maybe that's not the way to go about it. But God, I can tell you, certainly not how the people outside of that rumor feeling is a coup d'etat. Maybe he's got no tension. It does feel like there are some, some made-belief players who are playing under some tension. All right, let's talk to our insider. Brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus, where you can expect excellence online and in the showroom, visit donvalleynorthlexus.com. Damien Cox, Toronto Star contributor, our Leafs historian. Hakuna Matata to you, Damien. Hakuna Matata, right back at you. Although the other night looked more like when it was, when Scar was luring Mufasa into, you know, the hyenas, that's what it looked like for me. I agree. Good pull. I don't remember, but yeah, I'll take your word for it. But yeah, that sounds right. You've got to know your Lion King records. You know, and I know it way too well right now with a three-year-old at home. Oh, really? I have two young boys. And yeah, we haven't gotten to Lion King land. But yeah, no, it feels like a hole in my resume. Need to show that to them. Feels like pre-game viewing after school today. What do you do in reading to them? Come on. Put them in front of the television. Just coom and math all day with Ben. Not so much. Anyways, so yeah, no, it's no big deal. They lost to the lightning, seven, three in game one last year, and then one game two, seven, two. OK, and listen, Damien, they also controlled the shot attempts at five on five. OK, where are you on the no worries scale? Oh, I'd be very worried. I mean, there was nothing in that game that surprised me the other night. It was stuff that you'd seen all season long at different times, right? And it's the inconsistency of the effort and of also of the structure. And you see it when they play a very structured team like the Boston Bruins that the leaf structure might be there for-- it was there for what? Two and a half minutes before Ryan Reeves makes the wrong read because Joel Edmondson's pinching and all of a sudden the structure is gone. It's a two on one, and then you go like that. So no, I think there were parts of the game where the Leafs were in it. But five ones seemed right to me. There was an opportunity right at the start of the second where the Leafs stars Tavares, Marner, Matthews, four on three power play. What more could you ask for? And they didn't get a single clean chance. So I'd be very worried because the worst tendencies of the Leafs were on display the other night. Yeah, I think there's many things you could kind of pick out with the worst tendencies. I think the thing I've been kind of poking at the most this morning is that they maybe never is too strong, but they rarely seem to be able to walk the line in a way a team like the Boston Bruins were. I mean, you know, it's not like Boston was unphysical. It's not like they weren't poking the bear a little bit back. But I mean, you see Domi, it takes the slashing penalty. And I don't think anybody here has a problem with Max Domi getting in Brad Mershahn's face, but you certainly don't want to take a penalty to do it. It just seems like this team has such trouble kind of finding the right side of the ledger. They have that the regular season at times, but they've had it in the playoffs in spades. Yeah, I mean, it's a horrible combination, right? A team that is very poor at penalty killing, taking offensive zone penalties. I mean, that's just a recipe for big time trouble. I mean, I think the penalties were certainly a part of it, but they're also a function of the fact that this team really struggles to get out of its own head. I mean, I'm watching the other night and started counting them times. The puck will go into the Boston in and come right out. And the puck will go into the Toronto in, and all of a sudden we're going to start reversing it and back passing it and, you know, and fumbling it and then it starts. And then you end up drawing a penalty. And so, like I say, I mean, it's obvious that you can't have that many penalties if you're the Toronto Maple Leafs because you don't kill them very well. But, you know, it's the inability to get out of there. And the inability, guys, we talked about this, you know, toughness in the playoffs and all. They don't score in the playoffs. Yeah. They score in the regular season. When it matters, they don't score in the playoffs. Why that is, I think it's really probably, you need more of a psychiatrist than a hockey coach because they just look flustered, like they're trying to score five goals at once and then they can't get one. And obviously, their opponents, you know, you know, somebody said, "Me, why do they always lose "when they in the first round?" I said, "Well, to be fair, one of the functions is "they play in the toughest division hockey "and they draw a very difficult opponent every single year." The Boston Bruins are an excellent team, one of the top two or three in the NHL. They are tough to beat. And so the Leafs, unless they're going on all cylinders, unless they score goals, they can't win this series. - Yeah, I mean, it's the playoffs. The Sam as a shark are gone. Like, yeah, they're all tough teams. But yeah, no, it's for sure the one of the toughest, if not the toughest division right now. So Austin Matthews scores five goals in the six game series against the Lightning, right? And it does, like that part of it papers over a little bit that the scoreless in five games against the Panthers. It was definitely a conversation coming out of that series, but it's like, man, five goals in six games in a series that you won, and you finally broke through in a postseason series. I think largely at the end of these postseason series, it's been Mitch Marner, the face of failure, right? And Austin Matthews hasn't been it. But man, if we're talking about a 69 goal season, coming off the five games against the Panthers, and then the rest of the series goes like game one did against the Bruins, where he's low to find the net. I mean, how much does he put himself in the crosshairs? - I just, I think if you start looking at one guy and saying he's not scoring, you're kind of, I just don't think it makes a lot of sense in the playoffs because it's such a team game. And the other team is doing everything to take away that one guy. So obviously you're going to need him to do things. And I thought Matthews was okay the other night. I thought he was involved. But I mean, Marner and Tabarans. I mean, just not threatening offensive players at all. And so what Boston's going to do is that we're going to take Matthews away. So you don't get him. So now we're going to take our chances with Mitch Marner and John Tavares, and obviously no knee-lander as well, and Morgan Riley. And those guys didn't hurt them at all. I mean, David Campbell is what the guy who scored the goal. If Marner's not going to give him that, I mean, we're back into the discussion of what happens with him and his contract this summer because, you know, and I think, you know, you always want to be fair. A late season, high ankle, spring is not a great injury, a very difficult injury to get over. And so there's that, but he's out there. He's playing, he's doing his usual thing. But there was a classic moment, late in the game, I think it was Bertuzzi in front of the net, surrounded by five Bruins, and not another leaf in the picture because they're so far out on the periphery. I mean, Mitch Marner is so far away from the net, that, and you saw it on the four on three, the endless passing and then no clear chance. So he's a guy to focus on, but I think it's one of those funny things, yeah, you want Matt, you just score, but these other guys have gotten come true. Yeah, it's hard not to think about the future with Mitch Marner, right, if the rest of the series goes the way game one went and there are numbers to back up what we all saw with our eyes. He was the lowest rated Maple Leafs forward in regards to individual expected goals. That's like how many expected goals you buy yourself created. He was the lowest rated forward of any of the forwards on the Toronto Maple Leafs. And he's got this contract extension that is due, he has the no trade clause, and I think some people are envisioning a scenario where he tries to do the William Nielander thing where he holds off negotiating until the regular season, and then he has this incredible start to the regular season, puts the pressure on the Leafs. I mean, how is that going to happen if you have another postseason series like this? Like, it's just going to be hard to ignore what he's been in the postseason, even if he gets off to a tremendous start during the regular season next year. It becomes a very, very awkward scenario for everybody. It really does, because he controls a lot of what can and can't happen to him, but he also becomes, if they go out in the first round again, and particularly if they don't play better than this, he becomes the one major chip you can play to change your team. You can't trade Matthews, you can't trade Nielander. You could trade, you could do something with Morgan Riley, who I kind of am starting to feel his getting to the end of the line in Toronto. It's just not happening the way he or I think the team would like, but Marner is the guy that you can make the play with, and they've done the stability thing, which I think is tremendous. You're going to change the coach you would think if this doesn't go well, but Marner, in terms of going out and getting a player, you know, getting a guy who can really change your roster, because other teams would kill to have this guy, too. He's just, you know, it's not that he's not an outstanding offensive player, because he is, he's one of the top, whatever, 25, 30 offensive players in the NHL. The Leafs have some of those guys, and what they're missing is the other guys, and I think he saw it the other night. So there's an opportunity tonight for these guys to bounce back, and no series is decided until somebody loses on home ice, and all those things come into play. But, you know, there's also a psychology about the Leafs playing the Boston Bruins, so I think you saw some of that. I'll just slay the other night. Yeah, that's the thing about this series that we all kind of had pegged heading into it, right? And whenever it's a mental aspect, you know, it's always a little wishy-washy, right? Like we're literally sitting here guessing what's going on inside of these guys' heads, but I feel like it's a little bit less of a guess after seeing that first game. I mean, it's easier to do when, you know, like Max Domi/Marshan on the wrist, he's getting penalized. Yeah, it's easier to be the bigger man when the other guys go into the box. That certainly helps, and it all just goes back to what I was saying about them not kind of being able to be on the right side of the ledger of these things. With Marner, you know, I think the interesting thing about him, and Ben and I were talking about this, and, you know, who knows what happens with Neelander? Maybe he plays tonight. Maybe he's back in the lineup by Game 4. Again, who even knows what's going on, but I feel like William Neelander, not, let's say, it's a doomsday scenario, and he doesn't play in this series, or he doesn't play until a game six or a seven or something like that. The conversations we have about the team, because William Neelander is not there, are very different than the conversations we have about a Matthews, or specifically a Marner, because Mitch Marner's ability on the ice really shouldn't be hampered or bolstered all that much by Neelander being there or not. Like that is the interesting thing. I think that could potentially come out of all this is, again, who knows, maybe Neelander plays tonight, and this is a moot point. But if he's not there, I think it does affect the way you have to talk about the team as a whole, but it doesn't really affect the way we talk about any of those top guys. Do you agree with that? Well, you know, I do, and I don't. Again, we do get caught up. I mean, it is a team game, and that's why I get a little annoyed but everybody harps on the blue line, you know, because they can't get the puck out. Look at where the Boston defense, they're not doing anything fancy, but they know where their forwards are going to be. Their guys are in their spots, and they're there to win battles along the boards. Leave forwards, do neither of those two things. They're unpredictable where they're going to be, and they don't win battles. So those two things. So, and again, with Marner, it's got to be, he's not going to go out there and go through the whole team. He can't do it himself. He's got to find a way to collaborate with whoever he's on the ice and make things happen, but he can't do it 60 feet from the ice. And just back to the psychology, two of the team. I don't, I just get this feel that Boston feels like we own these guys. And I thought what was really interesting about the dummy Marshawn stuff the other night. Marshawn didn't even look at him. He didn't, from the opening face off to when they had did that little jousting and the slash, he didn't even look at him. He is like, you aren't even in my league, man. Why would I even bother with you? Go ahead, take a penalty. I'm not going to buck. And I think it's that Bruins really strong sense of superiority over the Leafs, particularly in a playoff scenario, that you just, you just feel it. You really do. Yeah. And it's hard to argue with considering five consecutive victories for the Bruins over the Leafs. The season one in the postseason, game two tonight from Boston. So it looks like, again, maybe no William Neelander, although the Bizarro skating in the optional thing yesterday. I get it. Everything's cloak and dagger when it comes to injuries in the postseason. This one is very, very weird considering how there was just like no warning at all. He played all of the two games. He's played every game in the last eight years outside of the COVID season. Is there precedent for this? You're a Leafs historian. Do you recall something like this? This is so bizarre. Well, I remember when they played Carolina back in '02 in that series, and all the nuts and beans out there. Right. You know, and there was that, and then a couple of other guys didn't come as well. So that's 20 years ago. So that kind of serves as the history. Look, I think he's, you know, everybody loves to be a kid to ease her. I mean, this guy plays. The one thing he could say about the William Neelander, he's durable. He plays. So what's wrong? Who knows? You know, it's some goofy little injury, probably a leg, a groin, a knee, something like that, that doesn't allow you. Or sometimes it's in these scenarios. It's a hand, right? You break a finger. You can't play. And no one even saw it happening. One of that. So that's a, that's a huge loss. But I would argue they still got a knife to play better than they play the other night. I don't know if they've got enough to beat the Boston Bruins, but they've got enough to play better than that. And I think they need a better game on other coaching staff. Like why Ryan Reeves has got to be out there when you know you're taking a big risk early in a hockey game? And why is Joel administered? Why does he think he's got a pinch that early in the game? And part of that is guys who are unfamiliar with each other. And part of it is a structure that's built around guys from freelance and score goals, not, you know, get the puck out of their own end. So I think Sheldon Keith's got to step up here and get this team going in. You know, we talked about this last week guys, the attitude of him and this team in those final couple of games in the regular season, I thought was brutal. Just brutal. They behaved like a team that had won three Stanley Cups. Oh, we don't even care. We're not even paying attention. Last game, Sheldon Keith says, oh, I was scouting Boston between periods. I wasn't even coaching. Like who the hell does this guy think he is? Yeah, somebody's scouting Boston. Not overly worried. I guess. I don't know. Maybe could have spent a little more time scouting. Obviously there were things. But you mentioned, you mentioned Edmunds impinging. Revo being out there. Does that not all just go back to the psychology stuff and them feeling like the route to beating Boston is? I mean, obviously they know it involves scoring goals, but they think that's the route. I mean, Max Domi, I mean, nobody needed to tell him to go out there and get him Brad Marchon's face. But it's obviously a directive. If you mentioned the coaching staff, it comes from him as well. Like, I think that's the reason. That's where the psychology stuff is the most at play. It's not that the Leafs shrink up and they go, oh, my God, it's Boston. We can't beat them. It's they stop being themselves because they feel they have to beat them in a different way. I think that's exactly right. And I don't really blame Max though. He's trying to do something for sure. The team. Yeah, I think he's trying. You know, he's he's a an average to good NHL player who's had dealing with a star in March on and trying to knock him off his game. That's a tough job. That is a very difficult job. And Ryan Reeves, he start there trying to land the big hit. But the Boston Bruins play the same way all year long. The Leafs are trying to say, OK, now we're going to change. And now we're going to do something because that's how we have to do to play these guys. I mean, I literally heard an NHL player tweeting the other night about how, oh, well, you know, they've got to fix those special teams, you know, after the game one. You think you're going to fix that penalty killing after in one day? Are you serious, man? Like the Leafs decide they really think they can play different ways at different times and turn it on and turn it off. They tell you that. You know, Sheldon Keith told you that. Oh, I don't even know the score in the final four games. We'll be ready for the playoffs. Well, we'll see, man. Didn't sure it didn't look like it the other night. Yeah. That's twice. I said, man, like am I stuck in the 60s or what? Yeah. Keep trucking or what is it? Keep trucking. What's that? What are you saying from your generation? I don't know. I don't know. He's stuck in the convoy. Yeah. Keep on trucking. That's an expression. Keep on trucking. The 60s. Okay. Right. Man. I thought you were such a groovy cat. Certainly not. There's not even like the levers to play when it comes to roster manipulation because, you know, Bobby McMahon's hurt. There's no like, hey, they need a goal. So here comes Nick Roberts. He's already there. Right? The one move they have is, I guess. And maybe if you are looking to improve the penalty kill, TJ Brody does that. I mean, do you pull the lever of once again, lifting Timothy Lilligren from a postseason series? Well, and actually, I have a bigger question for you. Do you pull the lever and go with the other goalie? I mean, I wouldn't tonight, but certainly if he loses tonight, I'm going. If he allows a couple of softies in the first period, like that's it for me. And I'm going to Joseph Wall. I think I go to Wall tonight because that allows you to come back with sense now that home. You can do that. His mentality will allow him to get back in there and you get the best version of him. No. No. No. I mean, he's dealing with a very flighty guy. And I think Joseph Wall showed last year in Florida, he could play very well. So I think they're kind of one A and one D, to be honest. And Sam Slough, that was disappointing the other night. I just, you know, he made a couple of really good saves. But, you know, boy, oh boy, yeah. The other one too is even on the two on one. Who was your defenseman? I meant to go back and double check it. Yeah. No. I would have had been a little good. Yeah. We know where Edmondson was. Yeah. Right. So in what, in what hockey manual do they say, by the way, on the two on one, don't take away the pass of the shot, fall down to the ice. Correct. Like, like dive on the ice. Like, what kind of defense is that? And again, I really think in a lot of these small areas, guys, is how this team's coached. You know, this is how this team's coached and what they're allowed to do. And when it is, and if Logan knocks that puck down, it's a spectacular play. But I'd rather see him take away the pass and make Samson up face that shot. So Samson up probably doesn't even know what he's going to do. But anyway, back to that. I think I go with the other goalie and hope for the best. But right now you need so many other things to happen, right? It'll be, I think it's tonight's going to be really interesting. Yeah. We'll see if they have the same pushback they had in game two against the lightning last year. Yeah, I think Jeremy Swamans playing a lot better than Andre Vasilewski was in that series though. And yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he made those and that's the other weird thing. I know we got to go. But Swamans makes two really good save early in that game. And the answer on the board before Ryan Reeves has a chance to make the wrong read. And then you're into a different and that's the thing. Boston against the Leafs always score first. They're always ahead. That's true. They know how to defend the lead. Damien, always a pleasure to keep on trucking boys. Hakuna Matata. All right. Think about that. Yeah. Oh well. Get those kids in front of the set. We don't need them reading and doing that. Get them in front of those videos. Yeah. Who cares if it's nice and sunny outside. Get inside. Watch yourself. Oh, no, no, no, no. It is 2024. You sit outside with your tablet. Be an iPad kid and watch the lion. Good God. Hakuna Matata. Oh, man. Okay, boys. Have a good one. Hi. Damien Cox. Toronto star contributor, Leafs historian and our insider, brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus, where you can expect excellence online and in the showroom, visit Don Valley North Lexus dot com. If I could add one more point to the two on one, and I know I've made this point before, but you could also, um, for a guy who had 10 points in 52 games and was playing in his first career playoff game, you could just stop it. Guy have seen guys make a save on a two on one before. When you're a goaltender for a team that wants to do something, you got to make a big save and a big spot. It's not always easy. Okay. Great. You made some big saves when the game was already over. You needed that one there. And you know what else you needed a save on the first shot of the second period as well. Pick one. I know I am Sheldon Keith. You only got Steve Breyer who's not even the goalie coach anymore, and you're certainly not responsible for this, but you're here. So you got to hear it. I don't care. Pick one. Pick one. You know where else they could use a save? On the penalty kill. Agreed. You're allowed to save those as well. So the Maple Leafs are 8th from the bottom in the NHL and regular season, short-handed save percentage. Here's some of the, here's a sampling of the teams around them. San Jose Sharks, Arizona Coyotes. Now it should be said, Edmonton Oilers are there too in the Winnipeg Jets. But that's, yeah, I understand it's quality shot sometimes. I didn't see like that. That didn't look like Kucharov one timing yet, right? That's, you can get a save killing penalties as well. They didn't get one in any scenario yesterday or on Saturday. It does fit. We have said yesterday all day because it's hard to do that. It's lingering. I know. You have to let it linger. Today on 680, you can listen to the Toronto Maple Leafs, and of course, watch it on Sports Net at seven o'clock, game two from Boston. All right, when we come back, talk to a former Bruin. Guy who's in the Hockey Hall of Fame, he has two Stanley Cup rings. Are they plugging his ear? I hope not. We're going to call him. Yeah. He's currently a Blue Jackets assistant coach. Mark Wrecky joins us next. As the fan morning show continues, Ben Anis, Brent Gunning, Sports Net 590, the fan. Covering the Blue Jays from an analytical perspective, Jay's Talk Plus with Blake Murphy. Be sure to subscribe and download Jay's Talk on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Fan Morning Show Sports Net 590, the fan Ben Anis, Brent Gunning, Leafs with the ability to change the narrative tonight in game two in Boston after a very disappointing 5-1 loss on Hockey Night in Canada in game one of this series. Let's talk to a two time Stanley Cup champion, Hockey Hall of Famer, currently Blue Jackets assistant coach. It is Mark Wrecky on the line. Thanks for doing this, Mark. How's it going? Good morning. I'm doing great. Thanks. How are you guys? Doing very, very well. I'm sure Brad Marchand is doing very, very well after he did the thing is team one and like right off the opening face off, he's going at it with Max Domi, eventually goading him into a slashing penalty. You obviously shared some Stanley Cup final ice with with Marchand. How much do you think he relishes this matchup? Well, he relishes, I mean, he every game, he's that type of player, he's their leader on their team and, you know, he knows what playoff hockey is all about and I mean, he plays like that every night and that's, you know, that's the reason they have their culture in Boston. You know, obviously they had, he blew up with it and, you know, he knows, he knows what he has to do when it gets to that time. Yeah. So you hit on the word that we've all been talking about a ton this morning is culture. I mean, you played on a ton of great teams and a ton of great orgs, but, you know, Boston's the pertinent one right now, so we'll stick there. Did you see something in Marchand early on in his career when you were there of like this guy can develop into that leader is it that he was baked and bred in that Bruins culture with Bergeron and Charon, you know, just let me quickly apologize to all the listeners. I know you're like rolling your eyes right now. I don't want to hear it either, but it's, it's true. What do you think it is about Marchand and is it just that the Bruins were able to kind of incubate him in the right way and obviously he's now creating that culture there like, what do you think it is about that player that allows him to be the, the kind of through line from that cup team all the way through to today? Yeah. Yeah, well, you know, you, you have the, if you have the ability to do it to be a leader, sometimes you just need to be guided into it a little bit and, you know, that was Brad. You saw him. You saw his competitive qualities every night. You just had a competitive spirit that was, you know, unbelievable and, you know, he's not a big guy. We all know that and he found a way to be an impact player in the NHL and, and then they learned the leadership side by being around a bunch of guys, but you can't do it unless you're actually, you know, have those capabilities and, and to be a leader and he, he did. And he just, he did the work that he needed to do to get to that point. No Patries Bergeron though, and it was expected that, you know, the House of Cards is all going to come tumbling down the season after they, they set the regular season record records that they set a season ago. Were you surprised at how, how they were able to sustain that winning and didn't quite win the division lost that to the Panthers on the final day of the regular season, but were right there from the word go this season. Yeah, well, it's amazing what culture can take, you know, how far it can take you and, and, you know, when you have that and, you know, the Charlie McAvoy and a lot of the other guys, they've been part of it. So they know what the culture is now and they know what it's all about and, and players that go into the, the Bruins organization, they, they know what to be expected of, of them and how they're going to have to be, how fit they're going to have to be, how they're going to have to fit into what their culture is. And, and if you don't, then you're not going to be a Bruin, and that's kind of how it's been built. And, you know, I know, you know, Brad March on, I tell a little story, he, you know, in the summertime when they have development camps, he goes in and actually trains with the players and he actually, you know, he's very extremely fit. And he, and he meets with the, all the young guys and whoever's in development camp, he tells them that you have to buy into what the Bruins are. This is what we are. And if you don't, you're not going to be here. So he sets that tone right away and then he goes and does everything that they have to do during the development camp. So just kind of tells you, you know, what type of person he is in players. So that's, you have that and then it just leads to, to, to good things within your organization. Yeah, I was going to say, not that anyone's dogging it in a development camp, but pretty hard to if the captain of the NHL team is, is right there with you. I mean, you, you played in a million series, you, you've won, you're more than your fair share of them, how important is the idea of message setting early on in a season? I mean, we see it both ways. I mean, the Leafs came out in game one and it was pretty apparent, at least to me, that they wanted to get in the Bruins face. And I feel like you could argue the Bruins sent a message by, and not that they stayed away from physical stuff, but they kind of stayed above the fray. What goes into message setting? How much is that something, you know, you guys would talk about his teammates versus just something that's understood of the way any individual team needs to play a game one, because I don't think it's the same for, for every team either. How important is that early on in a series? Yeah, well, you know, the, the Toronto is going to have to stick to their identity. And, you know, they have a very skill-based team, but they got some players that compete hard and they have to stick with that identity. I mean, they have a great coaching staff, they'll do a good job there of making some adjustments for tonight, and, you know, I think that they'll be ready and, you know, now they had a taste of it, okay, the Bruins aren't going to fall for it, but we still got to keep playing our game. And you know, they had great success all season, and if they continue to play that way, they will have that success that they think they can achieve. What's the role of a coaching staff? And obviously, it's, you know, a little different for, for every team, but you're not putting in a new system, I'd imagine, at this point in time, you know, you're not reinventing the wheel, is it more of a mental coach at this point in time, like, what is the role of a coach during the playoffs, and how important is it, and how different is it from their regular season? Well, it's definitely, well, it's game to game, and they do have to make little adjustments, and the coach has got to stay, obviously, very composed and very patient and understand that they're going to be the leaders, they've got to be the calm ones, and, you know, they think, you know, when you get into these situations, they've got to be just, they've got to be that, that leader back there, and, you know, like, I know they, Boston scored two power play goals, they'll make some adjustments on the PK, I'm sure, and, or if they just felt that there was just some kind of breakdown, and they'll make those adjustments, and so there's all those little tweaks that go into a game by game, power play, penalty kill, you know, five on five stuff, and, you know, the coaching staff, you know, there's so many, you know, most of the coaching staffs in the league are really great, and they'll make those adjustments, like, they need an in-game and, you know, in between games. It's not going to Hall of Famer Mark Reccke, so the Leafs are one of the highest scoring teams in the NHL during the regular season. We've now seen eight consecutive postseason games in which they've scored no more than two goals in each of those games. How different is scoring in the playoffs versus the regular season? Well, it's definitely a tougher, it's definitely a tougher ballgame. I mean, you're going in there, you're going to, you know, the champion is going to be there, you know, teams are going to defend. There's not two, you don't win championships, so that would be in a team that defends and plays the right way there, and obviously, you know, goal-tending is a big key. You know, Boston's been, you know, one of the top teams all year in goal-tending. That's a, you know, that's a big factor. You're going to have that, and they're just going to have to find ways to get in, you know, get some ugly goals, get some dirty ones. You know, I know Matthews will find a way because he's, you know, he gets inside, he goes to the, to the dirty areas to score goals and, and hopefully other guys follow. And that's what you have, what happens. Yeah, one of the, one of the big wrinkles in this series so far has been William Neelander. A guy's been more or less an Ironman in his NHL career, hasn't missed a game other than due to COVID in quite a handful of years, but all of a sudden not available for the team. You know, obviously, the players on the team would have more insight than, than I would in terms of looking at this, but how much does that throw a curve ball? I mean, everybody on the team matters, but this isn't a, you know, a fourth line winger that's going down. This is a guy who drives the bus for you. It's 10th in the league and scoring. How big of an adjustment would it be? And just how much of a, a bit of a, a shock would it be for the players on that team to all of a sudden not have Neelander available for game one? Yeah, you know, if they've had some time to obviously to, to get ready for it and you know what it's, it's an opportunity for somebody to step up and that's how you have to look at it in that dress room. This is an opportunity for somebody in there that's going to step up and be ready. And it might have to be two or three guys, not make, you know, one guy's never going to replace Neelander, but you know, you might get the third or fourth line. They might be, you know, like a, just a key to a game where they don't want, they get that early when they bang one in, they get a couple goals. I mean, you look at New York Rangers last night, their fourth line gets two rules. Maybe you need that to help propel something bigger and better for this, for this team. And if they do that, you know, some, if you get a group that steps up, a line that steps up, it's really going to help that team in the long run. Yeah, at least did also get a fourth line goal. Is there only goal on Saturday against the Bruins? So I listen, at least on the only team come the postseason that don't give you much as far as injury updates are concerned. And we always hear that the team that wins the cup, like all their guys are like, they're on death's door, right? The number of injuries that they've sustained over the course of the postseason that we don't know about. But how much in an actuality, Mark, when you're on the ice, does like that the, the covert operations of injuries and, you know, I guess the, the idea would be keeping the opposition from targeting that injury. How much does that actually impact the game? Well, you know what, if you, if you know what the guy has in this, you know, I did that definitely. I mean, if say if a guy has a shoulder, like you're going to get hit a lot, you know, more than even would, like, you know, teams are going to say, Hey, guys, listen, he's got a banged up shoulder. Let's, let's keep playing physical on them every chance you get. You're going to have to finish your check on them. And, you know, so it does have an impact and you got to be, you know, that's why it's so secretive and as it should, you know, it should be because, you know, guys can get targeted and, you know, like that's hey, that's the nature of business. You're, you're trying to, you're trying to win a championship and, you know, hey, if somebody's banged up, you're going to try and take advantage of that. And, you know, that's, that, you know, that's the only way to go about it, really. And I think that, you know, teams, it's very important, but there's also a big thing that goes into it. Okay, if they do find out, then you're going to take advantage of it. Maybe this is an unfair question to ask you because I imagine there'll be four or five, six of them that jump out to your mind. But we always hear these stories and I watch them with my own eyes of brutal playoff series. Is there any one series or maybe it's a run that stands out to you as just being more taxing, violent, hateful, whatever, whatever verb you want to use in there, is there one that stands out to you as being the kind of nastiest and gnarliest series or run of your career? Well, yeah, it was probably in 2011 with Boston. It was, it was a tough, you know, we had obviously three seven game series. We had the four game series with Philly, but it was also a very hard series. There's a little bit of rivalry there. And, you know, we had Montreal, Tampa, you know, and then obviously finishing with Vancouver, which was, which was very, very tough. So, you know, that, that 2011 run was one that was, you know, extremely tough and a really hard grind and physically every night that, you know, probably took its toll. We mean, I was older too, but I mean, I think it took its toll on everybody. Mark, this is much appreciated. Thanks for doing this. Oh, my pleasure, guys. Anytime. Enjoy the playoffs. All right, we will. Possibly more than Saturday. Mark Recky, two time Stanley Cup champion, hockey Hall of Famer, Blue Jackets assistant coach. And you would think as part of the coaching fraternity. Now he's like, yeah, we got to protect these guys. We can't tell you what they have. We can't tell you how they're broken in all those ways. Part of both fraternities. That's right. He's like a player and a coach. It's like, yeah, I didn't want anyone telling them what I had. And you better believe when, when, when the blue jackets get in that they will not be telling people what's going on. Can't be targeting Kent Johnson. God, by the way, Scotty Sheffield just won yet again. It's like we don't have to let people know the sky's blue, Ben. It's incredible. His first guy since Tiger four wins in the last five stars is just it's the numbers are in front of me. It's just every everything he's done is the first guy since Tiger. That's the, that's the super calls notes version of Scotty Sheffield are very good at golf. He's never no one's ever looked more miserable to win millions at all. It looks cool this morning. It's cold. He had to get up early to finish the tournament. He was winning by four strokes. Doesn't he get a doesn't he get like a multicolored black jacket? He gets a tartan jacket, which is a wild move to give it a jacket literally the week after the masters. And then next year when he comes back, he gets to put on the tartan jacket and hit the ceremonial T shot while they set off a cannon. That's good. You asked. I gave you the info. That was the deal with Hilton. Anyways, now you do. Oh, okay. We just mentioned that because it just happened. Literally, laterally, they finish. Yep. Wrap that up. So 2011 is a long time ago. Yeah, like more than a decade. I was going to say 100 years, but yeah, also that it's like Brad March and wasn't Brad March and then but he was a different version of Brad March and he was pretty good in that series. He played 16 minutes in game seven against the Vancouver Canucks. But like, yeah, not wasn't wearing the C. No, no, no, no. Patrick's Bergeron was part of that team and Mark Wreck it. Like that was in Sedano Chara. Like that was 19 points in 25 games in the playoffs that year. Yeah. So he's kind of Brad March. Yeah. Yeah. Some guys are just ready. Yeah. But the question I was going to like different coaching staff. Yeah. I mean, almost entirely different roster save for one dude. And we talk about this culture thing. Yeah. Culture thing culture. Like, what is that? Well, like how? Just because you wear the uniform, you play in that city, like what but guts what like is it that they had this culture because they won and then there's this expectation there? I just that part is just hard for me because it's one thing to have the through line of like a Patrick's Bergeron, right? Right. He's gone. There's one guy. So like one guy makes the whole culture. That's literally the whole carryover from the last time they want a cup. Now I know they've been in a final since then and they've had some postseason success since then. But like where like who is the face of this culture? Is it written somewhere? Like what? Huh? Yeah. And again, how do you how do you get it? I mean, and it's again, these things just they're self-fulfilling prophecies because I'm looking at that 2011 Bruins roster and I'm like, well, they had a great leader such as Andrew Farron's, I guess. I'm not saying he's not, but we think of him that way because he was on a team that won. He was an Ironman. He played a lot. And I'm not saying this to disparage him. But if Andrew Farron's played on a Leaf team or played on the Canucks for that matter that year, we wouldn't be talking about him in the same way. I mean, obviously, yes, the pillars of it all, a Zadayno Chara, a Patrice Bergeron, the guy who I actually, if we're going to talk about Bruins culture, who is the biggest flashpoint for nature versus nurture, the guy I've always pointed to for this is not Marshawn, but it's Pasternak. Because Marshawn makes sense. He was incubated in the Bergeron and and rec he was there and Chara, but Pasternak is the guy who I always, and it's unfair to do. And there's been too much of this now. This is more like three years ago take, but that if William Nylander was in the David Pasternak spot, would he have become David Pasternak? And I think the answer is yes, because Nylander performs in the playoffs. And how would we feel about him if he was incubated in that Bruins bubble? But we don't necessarily also think of Pasternak as a killer. We just think of him as a guy who scores all the time. It's a little bit of a different animal. So yeah, it's nature. It's nurture. But the least of, I think the thing that has to be said is I think you have to build the culture there. You can't take, and the least tried to do this a lot. You can't take guys who built up a culture somewhere else. And again, why we had to go to the team that always lost in the cup final to find your culture in Patrick Barlow and Joe Thornton that you can't bring that in. It has to be built in the spot. You can carry it over for a generation as we see in Boston. The coach is different. The GM is different. Like, there's so much turnover. But because it was built there, and there were enough, and it wasn't just fringy pieces, right? Like again, Brad Marshawn, he wasn't Brad Marshawn them. This was 19 points in 25 games in that run. It was a key pillar, and it carried itself all the way through. And I think that is what was always the promise of this Matthews era, was that they were going to win early, or at least not win-win, but just get some semblance of success, and it never happened. And now you've got this where you're just like lowercase win. I did that last year. Finally, year seven. Okay, that's smoked in five games. Yeah, I would like, is it different? I think the answer is probably not. But is it different in his past from that? No, no. I mean, if they just win in the Canadian division, when they should have, and they had this simplest path, how would they have a winning culture now, or would you say, ah, that's fake bubble stuff? It doesn't count. It certainly didn't happen with the Montreal Canadiens. You can put whatever you want on this because it's been so bad, and there's been so many losses, and there's been so much heartbreak. But it's hard not to put this on the Maple Leafs culture, and what? And also, it must be stated that Lionel Riley saw it, and then, I mean, dollars and cents, there was a dollar figure. I'm sure that he's returning. Luke Shen, that thanks, but no thanks. But what I just want to show rather would just tell us, like, it's like, because it's like, people do two ways with that. They're like, oh, he didn't want the market. He didn't want the core. And it's like, boy, I'd like the answer to that question. What is the culture? Whatever it is. I mean, it's core culture. I mean, again, so much changes. They win the series. Maybe they win the series in five games, and this seems like such a stupid thing to say. But it does feel like you come from the outside looking in. If you were an NHL player who was traded to Toronto, or you were signing, there was a free agent, wouldn't you think that you're going to the place where it's like, the fan base is tough. It's a tough media market, but the franchise makes it safe. Yeah. And there's, maybe this is putting it too far, but like, no accountability. Like, frankly, like just the failures, they pile up and you get almost a decade of it. And everybody gets their contract and everybody gets to hang around. And yeah, even if you fail, if you're a middle, middle six forward, it's the stars that wear it, but they're all paid anyways. It's just hard, man. And maybe that's what we're talking about with the culture with, I mean, it's starting to change now with the passionate contract. But yeah, this was a team that did apparently take less or seemed like they took less to fit it all together and stay together. They also, I got to hate the contract stuff because it's then you're doing the thing where you're like denigrating Stanley Cup champion, Patrice Berger on to prop up, a guy who's won nothing lost in Matthews. But it's like, the reason those guys took less is because they weren't as good. Okay. Like when Brad Marchon signed his contract, he was not 100 point Brad Marchon. Okay. Yeah. Passnac was as good and he got paid. Yeah, exactly. So I think that's the other part of this is that the leaf special guys, it's like, well, these guys took a little less. Yeah, because he's Patrice Bergeron. And there's a reason we talked about him every year and we gave it to him every year because he deserved it, the Selkie. But we never had the Patrice Bergeron heart trophy conversation. You know why? Because he's not a heart trophy guy. And again, no, no one should be sitting here denigrating winner. You are, I know. But this is the that's why the contract stuff went the way it was. That's also the con the culture stuff that you cannot. It can't be blind. I was somebody who was of the belief and I still understand it of pay the guys, take away those worries, let them perform. But how can you not look at the sliding glass doors of what if you negotiated harder and held their feet to the fire? I mean, I think the answer to that is probably Austin Matthews or one of these guys would have said, I don't want to hear, get me out of here. I think that's actually what would have happened. But how can you not, at least wonder what would have happened if things were harder instead of so easy? Okay, so did the the Leafs, you know, get unlucky that Austin Matthews hit a post that he had an open cage that he didn't bury that, you know, Ilya Sampson off a couple of screenshots, some of the perfect shots. Maybe I think you can also make the argument that leaves actually got lucky on Saturday, because the Bruins hit three posts in the first period. Their passing act didn't score. Breibershan didn't score. It's hard for me to say, well, as much as, yeah, they controlled the play, I guess in quotation marks at five on five, that the Leafs, you know, just a couple of bounces away from winning that hockey game. Where was like the grade A chance on that four on three was to start the second period. Where was the keeping everything to the outs? And I guess that the goals were scored from the outside on the power play. But where was the looking like the penalty kill that you hoped that they would look like acquiring some guys that killed penalties and Connor Dewar and Joel Edmondson? It's just, it's hard for me to say that it was, you know, a couple of bounces on Saturday. It's just, it's hinge point moments. It's not bounces, but it is hinge points. It's not, they were, oh, this isn't, this isn't game six against Tampa three years ago, or two years ago, where Matthews was millimeters away from tipping home. The OT, that's not what we're talking about here. That is bounces. All here bounces for that. It's not bounces when you give up a two on one, your goalie can't make a safe. Don't worry. It's Joel Edmondson and Revo's fault too. I'll lump them in. Okay. But you can make a save there. And it's not bounces when you don't generate a lick on four on three with all the most expensive guys on the ice. I'm sorry, William Newlander wasn't there. They're fine with Tavares, Marner and Matthews as the forwards on their four on three units. So it's not bounces for me. It's hinge points. And I firmly believe that's what, I firmly believe that's what tonight's going to come down to too. I don't know what it's going to be, but there are going to be two to three flash point moments that we look at. Maybe it's a bad penalty. Maybe it's a missed chance. Maybe it's a weak goal, but something in that realm is going to be what decides this game tonight. Yeah, it was the differentiating factor in the first couple of games of the Panthers series last year, too. Boy, was it minute and a half, two minutes stretch? And there's the game gone. Yeah, it was two minutes. It can end that fast. It can. Yeah. I'd love to play that game back with the Leafs scoring on that four on three power play to start the second period. Or a save on the two on one. Yeah. All right. We get to have a different conversation tomorrow. Maybe it'll have more evidence one way or another. This is true. Game two from Boston on 680 news and sports net. All right. This has been the fan morning show Ben and his prank gunning sports net five night at the fan. Good morning. Cleaning like Tada? Yeah, it's our motto. What's your motto? Not what's a motto with you? [Music]
