This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Meet Marlin, a small yet powerful handheld laser that will revolutionize shipbuilding and maritime corrosion control. The Laser Photonics Marlin combines laser light and precision to make the ideal tool for both on and offshore applications. Remove rust, paint, and perform surface preparation without the need for abrasives or complete dry docking. To learn more about Laser Photonics and this $21 billion industry, visit by LASE.com. Hello, I'm Brian Cox. And I'm Robin Ince. He understands the nature of the universe. And so does Robin. Well, do you know what? I do have my moments, especially after this new series, The Infinite Monkey Cage, because we are joined by experts at Bletchley Park, who are talking about cyber warfare, an unexpected history of the body at the Royal Society. Plus, we'll be talking about de-extinction, elasticity, and embryology. And there will be comedic interludes, and pair mares on hedgehogs. I mean, she's not riding them. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. A generous donation by the president of Kenya to a charge denied in what seems to be a strain of relations between politicians and religious leaders in the country. Count the charge, play a part in keeping governments in check. The Bible is clear that God has established governments, and that government leaders are God's servants for the good of the people. This is what we refer to government officials as civil servants, because they have been given the authority to serve the people. And remember that day in 2018, Cape Town's Day Zero, that could have seen South Africa's second largest city run out of water. But what saved the day and what lessons are there for the rest of us? A lot of people started using grey water. They were not using that before. So the water you use to wash dishes or even shower, you use it on something else, maybe watering your garden, watering something else. The only water, and until now, most of them don't use only once is drinking water. Hello, I'm Charles Gittonga, and it's Monday, the 25th of November. First, let's go to Zimbabwe. Last Friday, a court convicted a prominent opposition politician, Jamison Timber, and nearly three dozen others for holding an illegal gathering in June. Mr Timber is the interim leader of the main opposition party, the citizens coalition for change, and his supporters have consistently denied the charge. They argued that they were meeting at a private residence when police stormed it. 30 others were acquitted. Rights groups and UN experts say the charges were politically motivated, and part of a crackdown on their opposition in Zimbabwe. What do these latest events imply for democracy and opposition politics? Here is promise Mukwananzi, a spokesperson for the citizens coalition for change. Well, there is a fragmentation of the opposition in Zimbabwe, which is obviously as a result of the ruling party's deliberate intention to destroy and disseminate opposition in Zimbabwe, and possibly to build towards a one-party state. So that deliberate effort by the ruling party has divided the opposition, has fragmented the opposition, and infiltrated the opposition in many ways. We will not allow the decimation of the opposition in Zimbabwe, or not allow the establishment of a one-party state. We are going to do everything we possibly can, and that is permissible in a democratic society to ensure that Zimbabwe reminds a multi-party democracy. That's a spokesperson for the citizens coalition for change, promise Mukwananzi. Shinga Inoka is the BBC's reporter in Harare, and I began by asking her whether this verdict came as a surprise. I don't think that many people were surprised by the outcome of this court case, that simply because it's being quite typical. So over the years, and even over the last year, hundreds of opposition supporters and government critics have been arrested on what human rights groups and observers have often referred to as spurious charges. In one case, there was an arrest over a law which the constitutional court had overturned. And so what we typically have seen is that there are convictions at the lower level, at the magistrate's court level. But then when the cases are taken to appeal at the high court, they're almost always overturned. And so it really has been difficult to maintain these convictions. And so at the lower court, I think a lot of people were just really expecting this result. Right. And what does it then mean for the main opposition, the CCC, and their supporters, because listening to their spokesperson there, he says this need to consolidate the base, but not necessarily the leadership. Well, it's quite interesting. And the history of the opposition is quite complex. And so for example, you know, we've referred to Jameson Timba as one of the, he's described himself as the interim leader of the CCC, the Citizens Coalition for Change. And ever since the founder, Nelson Chamisa, left the CCC that it had been infiltrated. And he also accused the government of, and the rulings on the PF party, of trying to take his party away from him. But Jameson Timba is just one of the leaders of the CCC. They're various factions, including a man who is seen as more sympathetic to government, and not so much as an alliance, but who is favored by the government. But then there's another faction which is led by a former member of the opposition, a former, one of the former leaders of the opposition, Walshman Ulweb. And so what we've seen over the years are just these personality clashes, policy differences, as well as what many in the opposition have said is the infiltration, which has led to a party which is essentially fragmented without a clear leader as it is currently. Right. So is there then, in a certain way, how is this conviction being viewed then by the wider opposition? If there is disagreement, the opposition not reading from the same script, other critics of the government, how are they looking at all of this? Well, we've seen silence in terms of this particular conviction by one of the factions of the CCC. But as we've seen from the, I think what many really would believe is the main faction in the sense that it seems to command a lot more popular support because it's seen as affection that's supported by the former leader Nelson Chami. So we've seen condemnation and also from the international, and here I'm referring to Western countries, human rights organizations that point to what they describe as a systematic clampdown, a systematic repression, closing down of spaces within opposition politics, within civil society, within amongst critics of the government. It's been condemned widely within the UN office for human rights, which has called for the release of many, many people that have been arrested. For the last three or four months, we've seen over 160 people, and according to human rights lawyers here, that have been arrested on various charges. Many of them were assembled, as this particular group were in a private setting, in private residences, or they were protesting the arrest of this particular group, and they've been rounded up and arrested and charged. So this citizen's coalition for change, the party, has not had, you know, very good relationship with its founder and former leader, Nelson Chami, you mentioned him just a few moments ago. Where is he and what is his wider game plan in this? That's anybody's guess. Nelson Chami's formed the Citizens Coalition for Change in 2022, and that was after he was ousted from the main, the then main opposition, the movement for democratic change, the MDC, and that in itself had splintered since its formation in 1999. And so what we have at the moment is an opposition without a clear leader. And so even within parliament, you have these various members of the the triple C, some of them were recalled, but you have members of parliament that say that they belong to a particular party, but are members of various factions within that political party. And so there, there's a lot of confusion, I think among Zimbabweans about where the opposition is going, Nelson Chami said had been criticized when he formed the triple C for what was called what he himself called strategic ambiguity, where it was a party that really didn't have any clear leadership structures apart from his own leadership. And that's what caused a lot of people say the falling away. And that's what caused the collapse of this particular party, where you have a man who was able to take over and claim to be the secretary general, and recall all the people that had pledged allegiance to Chami Saa, and essentially formed his own faction. And so it's not clear what the next plan is for Nelson Chami Saa. He's formed what he calls a people's movement. They're still meeting people on the ground, still talking to them. But it's not clear in what capacity, if at all, he's going to compete in the, or contest in the elections that are coming up in 2028. Right. So before the CCC, there was, you know, it was part of the MTC, which was started by the late Morgan Changirai in 1999. There seems to be an issue here where opposition keeps splitting apart in Zimbabwe. What's going on? Well, I think it depends who you speak to. They would probably say that they've been infiltrated by the government. They're being infiltrated by the ruling party. But I think they've been structural problems within the opposition. And it began splintering almost as soon as it was formed. The man, Job Sakala, who has been very prominent, he was arrested and held in jail for over a year. He was the first person to splinter away from the movement for democratic change. He accused the then leader Morgan Changirai of being dictatorial. And so what we've seen over the years are personality clashes, very strong personalities within the opposition movement, which was really drawn from many groups within the trade union, within the women's organizations and with the youth movement and within the political formations themselves. And so there really has been a lack of capacity to keep all of these disparate groups, including even the churches together. So given this court ruling against Jamison Timber and all the current events that are happening in the country, what are the implications for opposition parties and freedom of assembly in the country? The prognosis for the opposition is just really bleak given the arrests, the multiple arrests that we've seen, not just over the last couple of months but over the years. And the net effect of that is that there's a culture of fear in Zimbabwe, an attitude where many people really don't want to join politics actively or to be seen to support the opposition because of the likely impact. So just as an example with this Jamison Timber case, initially 80 people were arrested. Subsequently, some of them, I think about 12 initially were exonerated because many of them were literally just walking past his house when he was having that meeting to celebrate, to commemorate youth day or so he says. Many were arrested as they were just in the vicinity of that area and spent many, many, many months in jail. So there's a legitimate criticism of how the police and the courts have applied the laws around freedom of assembly because what it does essentially is it really shrinks the space for political participation because a lot of people are just simply afraid to be in the vicinity of or to be seen to support opposition politics here. Shinga Inaka In Harare To Kenya now, I don't know if this happens in your country but for those who practice the Christian faith in Kenya, it is common to see politicians making speeches and huge donations during a church service. Now recently this trend has been criticized by Kenyans who feel church leaders should keep politicians off the pulpit. Their argument is that the church has become too close to the state and the monetary donations made are usually multiple times the known income of the politicians. It is widely believed that these are proceeds of corruption which has arrived in Kenya. Here are some thoughts from young people in the country. I think what the politicians especially the president and his party try to do is to buy the influence of the church through donations. But it's good to see the church is now waking up starting to see that they are being exploited and this is what we need in order for us to have better accountability for the country. I think if you're doing something out of good will, you don't even have to speak about it but then for them they want to come, they want to talk, they want to tell lies, they want to make empty promises which promises they don't even fulfill. The church should apologize to receive the gifts and if they are to decline things not to decline in the media, they should decline in a letter in writing and in discretion. Some thoughts from Kenya. So it was a welcome decision when the Catholic Church rejected a donation of about $40,000 by President William Ruto last week. The president had offered the money towards building of a priest's house at the Soweto Catholic Church in the capital Nairobi. In recent times, Catholic bishops and other religious leaders have issued statements calling out the government for failing to fulfill its electoral promises. But what more can the church do to promote governance? I called up Reverend Dr. Quasi Omar Afo who served in the Anglican Church in Kenya for over 20 years and our lecturer at the Global University. Welcome to Focus on Africa and I'd like us to start by talking about whether the church should be involved in addressing political challenges or should it be a neutral party? Well, when we say the church, we're talking about people who are citizens of the country but who express faith in Jesus Christ and express their allegiance to what is revealed in the Word of God. So there are people off the cities, towns and villages of a country and therefore they have as much stake in how the country is run as anybody else. I mean, in the context of a country like Kenya, for example, yes, you do have the Christians, but we also have the leadership, the bishops, whether it's Catholic or Anglican. So at that level, to what extent should those leaders be able to engage with the political leaders and keep them to account? The Bible is clear that God has established governments and that government leaders are God's servants for the good of the people. This is what we refer to government officials as civil servants because they have been given the authority to serve the people. So if governments leaders are not serving the people but instead taking advantage of the people, stealing from them and not pressing them, church and its leadership has a holy duty to call them to account before God and the people. So absolutely, the church cannot be on the sidelines, wringing its hands when it seats the people suffering. It has a duty to speak to power. Right. Are there ways in which there can be sort of effective separation between the church and the state? Because the case we are talking about here specifically for Kenya is that there is a culture of political leaders standing up and addressing people in churches, giving huge donations. And we've seen, for example, the Catholic Church say they will return up to $40,000 that was donated by the president. How do you hold these people accountable when on the other hand they are also involved in sort of supporting financially the activities of the church? The relationship between the official church leadership and undemocratic governments is a cosy but shameful one. In African countries where this is not the case, in the case of Kenya, where church leaders have unduly received money from politicians, they are discovering that this is tying their hands and this is why they're making these efforts to return to politicians, Mondays they have received from them, so they can stand back and play that role of the voice of righteousness which they need and indeed ought to be playing. Right. So in what ways then do you think the church can help in addressing systemic issues, like corruption, which is something we talk about a lot in many of the African countries? Let me go back to the Bible. In Matthew chapter 5 verses 13 and 14, Christ Jesus referred to Christians as the salt and the light of the world. Now salt seasons and preserves food, light dispels darkness. So when Christ used that metaphor of salt and light, what he meant is that Christians have to set an example of godliness in their lives by the god way they live. If the church and its leaders compromise by taking money from unpopular politicians and behaving like everybody else, they lose the moral authority to be the salt and light of their societies that Christ has called them to be. So the church, I believe, can play this role by returning to its core and original mandate of faithfully preaching the content and the implications of the gospel of Jesus Christ. If the church, church leaders, Christians are seen to stand out by their conduct, then when they do raise their voices, they will be taken seriously. Otherwise, they are seen to be part of the problem and not a part of the solution, Charles. Do we almost need to write it down that this is how the church must relate with the state? Because I know Kenya has been thinking about about banning these donations by politicians in churches. It's something that came off their protests in June because that was one of the main grievances by the young people. Do we need some rules to govern how these two institutions need to function together? I think that the church first and foremost has a duty to say to politicians because we respect the separation between church and state. We will not allow political leaders to use the church as a platform to make pronouncements or to publicly donate money. If you want to donate money as a politician, come to church just like any other church member and quietly put your donation in the offering bag. Just like everybody else, why must you stand in the front and why must you publicize it? And so the church first and foremost must legislate itself and say, we will not do this. We will not allow it because when we do that, we are sending the wrong message to the public. So if the government is not the one that legislates it, the church itself must say to itself that this blends our voice. As those who speak on behalf of voiceless citizens, we will not do this. The church is a huge electorate. I mean, politicians will seek to reach electorate by standing on church platforms. And yet the church platform is not for political speeches. The many church leaders compromise that. Charles, they have compromised the position regarding church and state. And what is it then that you'd say makes the church so powerful, gives them this mandate that when they speak leaders, political leaders need to listen to them? Because church members hold their leaders in high respect. These are the people who guide their spiritual lives. So they have enormous say with their members. So for a politician who wants to reach that electorate, if he can bring church leaders to his side to support him, then no matter how unpopular or how unrighteous his conduct or his policies may be, he believes that church leaders will effectively sell this to the people. And this is why church leaders cannot Charles. They cannot compromise the powerful position that God has given them. And in closing, then are there challenges that the church leaders have faced that have seen them sort of start to allow more political participation in churches? We do hear a lot of big projects by churches. Do you think this need to develop the infrastructure? Is partly the reason why we have seen this interference happen? You see, if you look around you, you will see that many, many, many church buildings, church property developments that have received absolutely no money at all from any government or politician. And Christians have been doing this throughout the Christian centuries. So the idea that if we want to finance big church projects, we need to take money from the government or from politicians is misguided. And in fact, if you follow the money very closely, you will find that most of this money actually goes into the pockets of these honest church leaders. It cannot be used as an excuse to compromise the church's role to be the voice of the voiceless in the society. Reverend Dr. Quasi Omarfor, a lecturer at the Global University. This is focused on Africa from the BBC World Service. Meet Marlin, a small yet powerful handheld laser that will revolutionize shipbuilding and maritime corrosion control. The Laser Photonics Marlin combines laser light and precision to make the ideal tool for both on and offshore applications. Remove rust, paint, and perform surface preparation without the need for abrasives or complete dry docking. To learn more about Laser Photonics and this $21 billion industry, visit by LASE.com. Hello, I'm Brian Cox. And I'm Robin Hintz. He understands the nature of the universe. And so does Robin. Well, do you know what? I do have my moment, especially after this new series, The Infinite Monkey Cage, because we are joined by experts at Bletchley Park, who are talking about cyber warfare, an unexpected history of the body at the Royal Society. Plus, we'll be talking about de-extinction, elasticity, and embryology. And there will be comedic interludes and pair mares on hedgehogs. I mean, she's not riding them. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you for your statement. What you're hearing now is the applause that followed the announcement of a new finance deal at COP 29 Summit in Azerbaijan this weekend. The agreement aimed at helping underdeveloped countries taco climate change has been bitterly criticized for failing to meet the scale of the challenge. After days of negotiations that saw the event overrun by more than 30 hours, richer countries agreed to raise their contribution for poorer countries, most vulnerable to climate change, to $300 billion a year. Here's the BBC's climate correspondent, Matt Magra, sharing his reflections from Baku. Representatives from countries all over the world will be returning home after this weekend, after the conclusion of COP 29 in Baku. Many of them will be doing so with quite a heavy heart, particularly I think countries, country leaders and representatives going back to Africa, who will feel in many cases that the COP has been a failure and not just a failure, also a betrayal. The reason they feel that way is they have come to Baku with a very clear intention of arranging a new climate finance goal that from the 2030s would give a significant uptick in the amount of money given to developing countries to help them cope with the impacts of climate change and also to cut their carbon. What they got was a deal worth $300 billion, which on the surface sounds like a lot of money, but in reality is a drop in the ocean compared to the need. Matt Magra in Baku, as global temperatures rise, the consequences of climate change ranging from severe floods to prolonged droughts are becoming increasingly evident. At COP 29, experts highlighted the need for countries to prioritize water management in their climate strategies. Amidst the challenges, there are success stories. One comes from Cape Town, South Africa, which was on the brink of a catastrophic water crisis in 2018. The city turned its fate around through innovative measures. To find out how, I spoke to the BBC's Akisa Wandera, who visited Cape Town to uncover their strategy. This water crisis started, I think, end of 2017, leading into 2018 and just some background. The region had just experienced a terrible three-year drought period and it was said to be a one in about 400 years drought, so the entire region never thought they would experience such dry periods and they went consecutively for three years. Of course, that for the first time led to all the major dams in Cape Town to go below about 14%. Some of them almost dried up. They looked like deserts of areas where dams were almost always full because the city entirely relied on rainwater, which of course was in the dams, at a point where the dam levels have gone low. It's a huge population. At that point, there were about 4 million people in Cape Town and people were still using water as they would usually. So then the city told the public, "Hey guys, our water levels are going really low. If we do not check how we use water, then we are going to get to a point where we will have to cut out the water supply to your taps or what you will use in the house because this was not tenable anymore." I mean, not having water in the house is quite a crisis, emerging for everybody. So how are the people and their families and their communities affected? A lot of people that I spoke to when I was in Cape Town, they said this was a huge tanning point. As you go about your daily life, you never think one day you opened the taps and there would be no water because then it became a luxury. So their relationship with water changed a lot and that has stayed until now even though they have abundance right now because I mean they're in a good place right now. So a lot of people started using gray water. They were not using that before. So the water you use to wash dishes or even shower, you use it on something else, maybe watering your garden, watering something else. The only water and until now most of them use only once is drinking water. So there's a culture that's come up in that community where they have come from a place of scarcity and most of them, even in abundance right now, they still continue with the habits they picked during day zero. It got me thinking how I use water at home and how much of a privilege it is. Right. So talk to us then about people that you spoke to. What did they say? As I was just looking at the kind of habits people picked up during day zero and how that's changed, I met a very interesting lady called Nobugle Bly. She's a resident of Cape Town but one of the informal settlements called Imizamo Itu and it's one of the communities that were hardest hit by the water crisis and she just spoke to me about the measures that she had to take to save water during that time and even now. I told my children to use a small container and she had the water to wash their faces and they'll tell them that they must use another container to look at the water they've already used so that you can use it to fly the toilet when going there. So of course I also spoke to Shala Norton who lives in the suburbs of Cape Town. She runs about a two vegetable garden and she also just spoke to me about the kind of innovations to come up with at her farm that have allowed her to continue farming with mindfulness of water in mind. We've tried to turn our grey water that's relatively clean, that's what we use to water our garden. We've been lucky that we could afford big Jojo tanks so I now have three big Jojo tanks we collect rainwater. Right so we've heard from a resident and also a farmer both in Cape Town. What is the local government they are done to support such people? Well the first big thing that the local governments came in to do was to educate people so even as we were driving around you could still see billboards that talk about you know save water, conserve water, store water and whatnot so they started by making people aware of the benefits of water preservation and they rain such big public information campaigns and I should tell you till now one of the websites that the city runs to just update people on the rainfall and the dam levels is one of the most visited websites in Cape Town they may have told us that. The local government also did what is called pressure management where it was established that about 70 percent of Cape Town's pipes were leaking so a lot of water was being lost to leakages so they went in and you know just repaired and put in new systems where they need to to save as much as they can and of course they also increased their budgets to deal with anything water management to the country and now they're talking about investment so it's not just now they're looking at how can they future-proof the city when it comes to water and one of the things that they're doing is um obstructing groundwater. Cape Town sits on a very significant aquifier which stretches about 800 square kilometers so now they're drilling underground water water that's been there for a very long time then transferring it to the dams and then of course then it will be used by the millions of residents of Cape Town as well as they've also cleared invasive alien plants which is said to be one of the biggest projects in Africa that has been seen because of the kind of investments that that's gone into that they're hoping that this will make up for about 33 percent of the water supply general water supply in the city so that then they stop completely relying on rain water because of the lessons from the crisis. The thing is many African countries struggle with water issues especially for you know urban centers even in Nairobi sometimes we have to deal with water rationing and things like that. Water are some of the lessons from Cape Town that could be of use to other African countries. Of course conservation public campaigns like this is something maybe governments should consider not just when it is critical but you know maybe all year round on water conservation the investment in and water management and it's one of the big messages that have come out from experts at COP 29 conference that governments need to really really think about water management and prioritize them even in their climate strategies. The BBC is Aquisa Wanderer. Focus on Africa was put together by Sunita Nahar, Amy Libovitz and Bella Hassan in London and Susan Ghashore in Nairobi. Paul Bachibinga was a senior producer in charge of the program and Philip Bull was a technical producer. Andrew Lombard and Alice Mootengi are our editors catch us on YouTube as well. I'm Charles Gittonga we'll talk again next time. Meet Marlin, a small yet powerful handheld laser that will revolutionize shipbuilding and maritime corrosion control. The laser photonics Marlin combines laser light and precision to make the ideal tool for both on and offshore applications. Remove rust, paint, and perform surface preparation without the need for abrasives or complete dry docking. To learn more about laser photonics and this $21 billion industry visit buy LASE.com. Hello I'm Brian Cox and I'm Robin Ince. He understands the nature of the universe and so does Robin. Well you know what I do have my moments especially after this new series The Infinite Monkey Cage because we are joined by experts at Bletchley Park who are talking about cyber warfare, an unexpected history of the body at the Royal Society, plus we'll be talking about de-extinction, elasticity, and embryology. And there will be comedic interludes and Pam Ayres on head jogs. I mean she's not riding them. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. [MUSIC PLAYING]