In this episode, the guys talk new watches, Christmas trees and the odd behaviors we're seeing from some of the biggest name brands in the hobby.
The Wrist Cheese Radio Podcast
Episode 131: Unholy Trinity
(upbeat music) - Hello everyone and welcome to episode 131 of the Risk Cheese Radio podcast. Your place for horological hot takes, taboo topics, and often unpopular watch opinions. My name is Schmidt and as always, I'm joined by my good buddy. You guys know him, you love him. Mr. Brodinky, bro, what's up, man? - Not a lot, haven't had an episode of a minute, but we did do a double dipper the previous week. So I knew it was gonna be a little bit of a busy week, you know, with the Thanksgiving holidays and stuff coming up. We always do ours the weekend before, so family and stuff can get invited. So I knew I was gonna be busy. I was like, let me just get that out of the way. So that's why we didn't have one necessarily last week, but I got that out of the way today. So I'm feeling very relieved and sucked in that. Not a whole lot, just the holiday time was upon us. You know, it's a busy time and I'm burnt out already. So that's good. - One more chaos episode of the time, my friend. One more chaos episode of the day. - That's right, how about you, what's going on? - You know, I've been good, man. It's been, it's been good. Things are slowing down with work finally for the year, which is fantastic. I'm very excited for that. Things have been pretty good on our front with the family. So kiddos are excited for the holidays. I've been working like crazy, trying to get everything prepared for them. Christmas decorations inside or up. Christmas decorations outside are almost finished. So we've been firing on all cylinders. It's a little early for us this year, but you know what? Given everything that's gone on this year, I was like, why not celebrate a little bit longer? Let's make it much more joyous and enjoyable. 'Cause I mean, January's gonna come up too fast and then the house is gonna have to get all the decorations put away and it's gonna feel naked for like two months. - Well, that is the paradox there is you either do it early and you get the maximum amount of time, we do decorations up and then after Christmas, you take them down or you're one of those people who put them up too close to Christmas and then you're like, I'll get them down by St. Master's Day. (laughing) - So it's quite the interesting situation there. Yeah, I'm definitely a procrastinator and that doesn't really help me out too much there, but that usually means I'm not taking my decorations down until, I don't know, Valentine's Day. - Yeah, I mean, yeah, January, anytime in January is kind of my hard stuff for me. So usually it'll be the end of the month after, at least after New Year's and all that stuff is done and then we'll start messing with Strinus, slowly take stuff down. So the tree's front of the last things to go. - You do real tree or fake tree? - Such a sore subject with me. I have always grown up with a real tree and I love it. It's one of the things I look forward to the most as a man like for Christmas, but I've been vetoed because those that live in my household are allergic to the Christmas tree. - No, what? - So it's been-- - Literally allergic to Christmas. - Yeah, basically, and I've even tried of, you know, getting the trees that are less fragrant, they don't have as much, you know, pollen and stuff like that that the trees produce 'cause it doesn't bother me one hell of a bit and I love that it smells like Christmas, you know what I mean? - Yeah, that is awesome. - Yeah, the wife and her mother and grandmother and all the people that take care of my kids when I'm on the road and things like that, they're not so keen on the real tree. So it's, I don't know, I just don't wanna lose it. You know what I mean? Like that's my biggest fear is that my kids will grow up never having really known a real Christmas tree and if they don't experience it, there's kind of this like lost art of like how it's done, you know? - Yeah, we did a real tree every year and then they started gouging on tree prices. So we bought a fake tree and now it's just kind of a touch and go every year, like we check out what the prices look like and if they're terrible, we're like, all right, fake tree's going up and if not, it's a real tree time. Although the only nice part about the fake tree is that you don't have to water it constantly so you don't burn your house down. - Yeah, I mean, I get that, I get that, I get that. But you know, it's, I don't know, it's always something that like to me was like the most seminal part of the holiday. It was like, you put the tree up, you know, you know, for us, we don't have any tree farms that we can get all of our trees come from your place, like your side of the world, they chop them down, they ship them down on trucks and stuff like that. So, you know, I've always grown up never actually going to cut a tree down, which, you know, is something that I wish that I could do. I just don't live in a climate that that is possible. But, you know, we would just go, you know, to a tree farm, you know, it's basically a parking lot with tents and the trees, but you would pick one and then you'd take it home, but the whole thing of like sawing off the bottom and letting it soak overnight. - Clark's and Rizzwald shit. - Yeah, and then, you know, cutting the string and letting it out and furl and, you know, bringing it into the house and vacuuming the needles, like, you know, it's all that. And the thing too is like, they're not any less messy. Like the artificial tree every year is dropping all kinds of crap all over my floor. I'm still having to vacuum it. Plus, it's an absolute pain in the butt to put, like to fluff up the tree and everything. They give you gloves to do it 'cause it hurts your hands. - Yeah, it does. - It sucks, man. It's like, it's not fun. Like, needles should be soft and, you know, wonderful. And it should smell like Christmas, but no, we're relegated to a fake disaster tree. Although, it is a big one. It's a huge tree. So, that's kind of the only positive about this fake tree. It's like full, thick. It's like thick with two seas is big. - Oh, very nice. - Yeah. - Yeah, the one funny part about getting a real tree is when you get it home and you let it out and then you, there's like a day or two period where it's gonna fall down and you're like, man, I hope this thing looks good with it. - Oh, yeah, when it settles? - Yeah, like some of you call it, but like, I don't know if it's, is this thing coming down or not? And then you're like, every time you come in, you're looking at it from a different angle. - Yeah. - Yeah, this doesn't look like crap. - I mean, that's always the way you gotta let it soak. You cut the bottom off, let it soak. And then you set it upright in its area, let it drip for a day or two, and then you can turn it to where the ugly side is always on the back. - Yeah, and don't be a noob and decorate it right away. - No, you can't decorate it right away. You gotta let it fall, you gotta let it soak up the water. It's been dry for a minute. So let the tree live, let it live. And don't buy the, don't buy the like the tree survivor stuff. Have you seen this? - Oh yeah, that's ridiculous. - Dude, it just petrifies the tree and it's like, like in so crispy and brittle. And it's like, okay, so this is not as fun. Like it doesn't drop any needles. - That's another thing. When you have a dry ass tree and then all the needles, you like breathe on it and there's a pool of needles underneath, that sucks too. - Yeah, yeah. - So take care of your trees. - Yeah. - Don't burn your house down. - That's right. - Don't burn your house down defrying a turkey that you didn't thaw, please God. - Oh yeah, definitely do that outside from a professional. That is an outdoor activity. It's like we can do this in the garage. Know who the hell you're not, sir. - Yeah, oil and water, especially hot oil. - Oh man, Uncle Fred, 17 beers deep, dropping his, - It's like I'm just letting this dirt down. - Yeah, I'm just gonna drop this thing in and it explodes. - I've also never known why the flame is open. You know what I mean? Like if this is the most common situation where this happens, like why isn't the flame much like more enclosed, you know what I mean? - Yeah, it's a good question. - It's just literally like an open flame. It's like, let's just not compensate for the extra weight of this bird, put too much oil in it and then we'll drop it in there. So it overflows and catches on fire. Good, solid. - Yeah. Don't put that out with water, kids. - Oh my God. So terrifying, I'm glad we don't do that. - Nah, it's, I don't think it's worth it. That's not worth it. - No. - It can't be worth it. - It's totally not. I mean, like the bird is probably really good, deep fried. But at the end of the day, is it worth it potentially killing yourself, catching on fire, you know, getting third degree grease burns, like, or oil burns, like, no, dude. - Yeah, I'm not gonna lie. If you're dumbass on your headstone, it was like, all I wanted was some damn turkey. Like you deserved everything you got, that's all. - This is a watch podcast, right? - Oh, I guess, all right. (laughing) Steer it back. - Oh, man. So it's been a hot minute. There's been a lot released as of late. Well, get into some of it, at least. One that has caught my eye. I know you've seen it. No most put out a series of Neomatix, the club variety, in case you don't know what that is. In 34 millimeters, now they are-- - Perfect size. - Yes, a champagne color, one is like a rose, and like a very nice purple shade. - Yeah. - All I could think of is the constant conversation that we have about how the lugs protrude rather far on these, and even looking, if you look at the product photo, it's on a guy's wrist, and even at 34 millimeters, it's still touching. - It's sizable. - Yeah, the edges of the wrist. I really think this is probably an ideal size for an almost, I mean, even when I had the 38 in my possession, it still, you were right. It definitely hung large on the wrist, and I have a pretty average wrist, I have a seven inch wrist. It's not like I got a little baby wrist or anything, but I think a 34 would sit very nice, and you think, I mean, at 34 it's kind of small, but like, these are all dial. - Yeah, it's like 100% dial. - This reminds me of how like vintage Omega, or some of these vintage pieces from the '60s wore. You know, there's 34, 35 millimeter, but they had very stout lugs, you know, very long protruding lugs. So, and because they were, you know, mostly this kind of sport style watch with, you know, all dial, very thin bezel, it wears so much larger in appearance than it actually is. I mean, I wear a lot of vintage pieces, you know, and it have been, you know, more recently, but I wear a lot of vintage stuff when the occasion calls for it, and people are surprised when they're like, well, how large is that? I'm like, oh, it's only 34 millimeter. - Yeah, 34 and 35. - It doesn't look like that size. Because, you know, we associate as being a very small size, but the way that you said design watches was much more visible for the aperture, what would you actually gonna see? And the cases themselves were very, very small. But it's a great size. I mean, this, this Nomos, I think is something that, you know, certainly someone like me has been asking for, especially on a bracelet. I think it's a great choice. I wanna see this expand to the rest of the collection. You know, give us more of the club in this type of sport watch style with the bracelet, but give us more colors, like a pink and 34 in the pink that you gave away. Like, that would be sick. - Yeah, I really like the champagne. I think that's a nice color. I think it's unisex enough that you get away that if you're a dude. I know the other ones are a little feminine, but I think the champagne is really, really nice. And I mean, even, you know, they don't really do, do they do two tone at all? - I've never seen a two tone Nomos. - 'Cause that's all I can think of looking at this is, I was like, oh, this look really good in two tone. And I was like, wait a minute. - Yeah, yeah. - I don't think I've ever seen a two tone. I mean, I guess it's not really the thing, but still. I mean, it would be neat. - But they've done precious metals before. You know, they've done precious metal before and like in very specific pieces, but they have done it. - But either way, I'm a big fan of these watches. And I think this is probably gonna hit really good for a lot of people's wrist sizes. Maybe people will try it on other ones. We're like, eh, can't really pull it off. I think this is gonna be good. - Yeah, the club sport, I think, is a great collection. And then offering it in this size. 'Cause I think the other size was what? 39, I think. I think they had even a bigger one than that originally. I think there was a 41 to start. And then there was either-- - Oh, 40, 42, 42 is the first size. Then they scaled it down to 39. - Yep, that makes sense. - And then what size is this one? This is... - Then they have a 30, they just keep going smaller. So they had 42, then went down to 39, then went down to 37 and then went to 34. I would say if you're wrong. - I guess they got you covered. - Yeah, for sure. I would say if you're on the taller side, like you're a taller gentleman, something like that, I would go with the 37. Because again, it's gonna give you a little bit more appearance. It's gonna be a little bit more proportional. But if you're an average height guy and you get a decently sized average wrist, I would go with the 34. Just my opinion, I've always known that no most wears weird just because of the long lugs and just because of the case's mentions. It's gonna be better in the smaller size than what you think. - Yeah, nice though, really nice. - Yeah, absolutely, it's amazing. - Okay, one that I think everybody has thought about, but definitely seen coming for a long time now. We are getting pull routers, maybe not right away, but we are seeing the top of the mountain here. They are putting out three different pull routers from the right link acquisition of Universal, not so long ago. This line is supposed to come into existence or the brand rather in 2026, but we are seeing now what they can do. They're putting out three pull routers. One is going to be auctioned, two are going in the archive of Universal, and everybody's seen it again. - Oh, that's fun. - Yeah, isn't it? So we're getting one in white gold with a blue dial with a really neat chain. - That's it. - Yeah, so apparently this is made by a dude who makes chains. - Oh, really? - He has like a moniker or something, like the last chain maker or something. But this dude, they got like a picture of him just piecing together this like chain mail. - Yeah, and it's the thing, it's so funny that you brought that to my attention 'cause I totally did not know that. But it makes a lot of sense because you have to remember, a lot of these original bracelets were made by by by jewelers, like they were made as jewelry pieces, right? And so a lot of the guys that that specialize in this type of handiwork are long since death, I mean, just be realistic, you know what I mean? There's very few classically trained jewelers that could replicate something like this, which is interesting. - Yeah, other than that, they put out a red gold and a stainless steel model. All of them are super thin at 9.95, 35 millimeters in diameter, there's more 35 for you. And yeah, they look really good. I think we're expecting a lot out of them. We'll see how well they deliver. I mean, obviously there's no price on these because they're all piece unique and the white gold example will be sold at Phillips in May of 2025. So we'll see what that goes for. I'm sure it's going to be. - Actually, I'm just gonna call it, man, like, I love the design. I love the fact that it's very vintage. I love everything about the watch's revival. What I'm not gonna love is the price. - Yeah, I think. - Because I know it's gonna happen. And it was funny, it's like, you know, there was a guy who, you know, the industry knows I'm not gonna put his name out there, but if you follow closely enough, you'll know who I'm talking about. But I know him personally and I was DMing him and immediately after, you know, one of his articles came out about, you know, this particular watch. And I was like, what's your real off the record type thoughts, you know what I mean? Like, what's your take on this? And he's like, look, man, he's like, the watch is beautiful, it looks amazing. It photographs extremely well, like it looks awesome. I was just like, okay, so that's all great. What's the price? And he's like, I don't know. They're telling me somewhere between 15 and 20K. - Ah, that's right. - Man, like, and I knew it was coming because if you remember, we had this conversation earlier this year when they first teased the acquisition, right, or it was maybe last year when they first teased the acquisition and we had talked about the time that they were saying that they were gonna position it higher than Breitling. And I came up with this contention point. I was like, well, how are you gonna do this higher than Breitling? Breitling selling chronographs at $10,000, $11,000. So what's higher than that? Well, you're looking at $15,000, $20,000. For a three-hander? I was like, there's not a lot of brands that can really command that type of price point that are out there. And he's like, yeah, but it works for the college. I'm like, yeah, but that's paddock. But it's a little bit different of a ball game here. It works for Vacheron. It works for AP, right? You know, those are brands that can command that type of, you know, think, you know, Chopar, he mentioned, and he's like, look, you know, Chopar is doing him. I'm like, yeah, but that, Chopar is signed to a very, very specific niche type of demographic decline tell. And he's like, well, that's kind of who I think that they're trying to position this to. And I was like, look, I get it. I completely understand it. It's a great watch to bring back. I just know that what people associate with UG is incredible styling. It's incredible movement technology, but it was relatively affordable, right? Like you were getting a poll router at sub $5,000 on the vintage market. And that was coming with a in-house micro rotor movement with incredible tuxedo dials and engine turning and all these amazing things. It made it a very attractive type of watch to get to take that and scale it into something that's production. And then saying, hey, we're gonna five times the price. - That's a tough sell. - That's a tough sell, man. 'Cause, and the thing is, if this is the three-hander, what's the complication piece is gonna be? - Yeah. - You know, these triple compacts and by-compact things that UG used to make with moon phases and all kinds of crazy stuff, what's that gonna cost? And then he was selling me that it's quite possible that down the road, they're basically gonna start sharing chrono movements between Breitling and them, which would make sense business-wise, but I'm like, okay, well, now it's a shared movement between your own two companies, which I understand, but then what's the justification for buying the UG versus buying the Breitling if it's gonna be essentially a Breitling movement? You know what I mean? It's one of those things that's kind of head scratchy for me, at least at this juncture. Now, hopefully I'm surprised. I mean, hopefully, in a year or two years from now, I'll be able to clear the air and we'd talk more about what we know at that time, but it's gonna be an uphill battle. I think a lot of people are gonna like it in idea, they're gonna like the fact that it's coming back, but they're not gonna like it when they're being asked to spend $15,000 to $20,000 for it. - Yeah, Jesus Christ. - If that's the price. - It's a very tough sell. - 'Cause I mean, I'll be honest with you, bro, at $15,000, $20,000, there are a lot more established brands that have history right now that I could get for that. - I mean, look, I'm not saying you can walk off-street by one, but I mean, that trumps most of the in-demand Rolex catalog. - Yeah, I mean, that's my point. - They're gonna be selling to a very, very, very niche client. Which maybe that's their whole aim. They're like, you know what, screw the mass market. We don't care about the mass market. We're going after the very niche, very uber wealthy. That's fine, whatever. But it's gonna be a challenge because all of your brand history, you're basically resurrecting. It hasn't been consistent. Everyone that's ever worked for UG is probably dead or retired or in a place where they can't remember, you know, all of these things. And you're basically remanufacturing brand history from nothing. It would be much more, I think, viable if they went like the Nevada Grenching route. Maybe not quite that low of price. - Yeah. - But that's easier for people to swallow. Like, it would be interesting as a value proposition if they came in at the same price as Breitling. Like, you had this watch and it was five to $6,000. - Yeah, that's why I originally had it envisioned. - I knew they weren't gonna do it. I knew they're like, well, this is a very important brand and we need to bring it back. Okay, great, fantastic. But how do you bring it back and you're saying you're gonna be more than Breitling? Like, okay, this is gonna be fun. This is gonna be fun. So here we are. I mean, we're gonna see, I mean, again, as you pointed out, we really don't know at this point because everything that we're looking at is basically auction prices. And that's gonna be, and maybe that's the litmus test. Maybe that's how they're gonna figure out the pricing 'cause if they can see how many people are bidding on this to see kind of what the number comes in at, maybe that's how they adjust their pricing short report. - Oh, that's interesting. So if nobody bids on it, they'll be like, "All right, let's take it down a little." - Maybe. Or if they think it can go super high, then maybe they're like, "Okay, well, price point of 15, $20,000 might be justifiable." 'Cause let's say this prototype, this one-on-one piece goes for $80,000. They're just throwing at a just super generic number. Well, maybe that can justify that kind of price. But if it's going for 30 at auction, they'll be like, "Well, maybe we should sell it for eight." You know what I mean? - Yeah. We shall see. - And this would be the ultimate litmus test 'cause it's really gonna be a one-on-one 'cause you, like you said, the two are gonna be closeted. They're gonna be hidden away in the archive. So there's really, as of right now, only one production UG that has been made in the last, what, four decades, five decades. So it will see. - All right, since you've brought up Show Part, quick segue, somebody in my DMs, for some reason, asked me to ask you what you thought of the new show or new-ish Show Part, Haudenki Collab. - Yeah, it was interesting when you're kind of prefacing me about this on the, as kind of off the record, off recording of the show. And I was kind of surprised. Nobody's ever asked me that before. I will say this flat out. I do like the Luke series from Show Part. I mean, it's really kind of hard to consider them the two, or I should say consider both brands being relative together because they really are two and entirely different representations of the organization. You know, the Luke series is very artisanal. It's very classical watchmaking. It's very Atelier focused. What they do in that house is pretty impressive. It's not the same type of Show Part that we know with, like the Milli Migglia or the Happy Diamonds or any of those piece, Alpine Eagle, it's not the same. Okay, it's very much its own thing. You know, when I look at this watch, it's gorgeous from an artistic standpoint in terms of finishing, but the specific watch overall, all it is is a Luke that they've already done in a slightly different dial and dial color. Now, the biggest change here is the monopusher hunter case style case itself. Which is, that is cool, that is cool. I mean, I will give credit to work credit as do. That's a very cool idea to do a monopusher, to do the hunter case style. My only, this is my only thing with that is like, I can imagine myself like wearing the watch and like bumping it into the crown. And then like, this is my case back kind of dropped down a little bit when I'm wearing the watch. I don't know, it's just something I was thinking about when I saw somebody like pushing the button. I'm like, oh, is it like open sometimes? But obviously it's sealed. Like there's so stuff like crystal there. But it's just like, I wonder if that would happen. Like it would just, you know, kind of release itself. But regardless, I mean, the watch is gorgeous. The micro rotor design is a phenomenal technology. The case back finishing is incredible. But you know, what's so funny is like, you know, I went to the Houdinki website to kind of, you know, research a more about this watch. 'Cause I saw it when it first came out, it was a very cursory glance. It's been a couple of weeks. And I didn't really pay too much attention to it 'cause it's never been my thing. But in trying to research and find this watch before this episode, it's like it took me, what, five minutes to even find it. Because if you go to the Houdinki shop page today, you're automatically redirected to the watches the Switzerland website. Oh my gosh. So it's like, I don't know, man, it's like, these two things are becoming so much more hazy is probably the best term. It's like-- - Sestuous. - Yeah, where does Houdinki end and wants to begin? Who knows? But yeah, it's a beautiful watch. I think it's very good. If you have the resources and the funds and the capital to get you something like that, you would certainly not be disappointed. Most people probably won't know it's a Houdinki piece at all because as far as I could tell, there's no Houdinki really influence. In the watches, no branding, there's no logos, there's nothing. You know, and quite frankly, you know, the Houdinki thing aside, this is not really pointed at the Luke per se, but just in general, like, I am so done with Watch Blog Collabs, I just can't do it anymore. It's like, it's so, like the first few times it was cool. It was inspirational, it was fun. - Yeah, I hate that. - But now, after, you know, four or five years of this, like, oh, we did this, oh, we did this, oh, we did. And we forgot too about the tag that Time and Tide did, the sundown or whatever they call it. - Yep. - Cool watch, but I'm just like, man, like, if tag came up with this themselves, it would have been just as cool, you know? Like, it's just interesting, I don't know. There's my jaded two cents on it, but-- - I'm not going to lie, the let's give Ben Claira his own G-Shock thing, I was like, all right, this is a little weird. - It's ridiculous, but long story short, you know, condensing it, Luke is good. If you like to watch, go buy it. I don't care about the Houdinki collab, Houdinki's dead, in my opinion. And I think it's well-finished and well-made, so there you go. - Okay. All right, onward, tag is putting out a Monaco that is inspired by the biggest strip and it is created by titanium with black DLC coating and shocker, the accent color is hot pink. - Oh, I know. - So the pink Johnny 5 is really doing it for me, dude. I'm not going to lie. - Yeah, this is like his dominatrix girlfriend or something. - This is the 39 mil case of the Monaco in case anybody's wondering, but I mean, overall, I think it looks really good. If you're like a piece that pops, it certainly pops. I mean, it's also 11, 12,000 dollars. - I mean, but I don't know. Like, tag prices are, they're getting up there for sure, but I mean, like, at least there's justification for it, right? Like you're doing titanium, you're doing a skeletonized dial. - You're doing a skeletonized dial, yeah. - Market specific, okay, all right, whatever. You know, I mean, like, what would a titanium speedmaster cost? Probably a lot of price, if not more. That's just my, that's my two cents on it now is a whole year Monaco of the same caliber as a moon watch. I don't know that there's discussion to be had about that. But I think the pink Johnny 5, I think is cool. I think it's, you know, a good looking watch. If I had 12,000 dollars, it's like burning a hole in my pocket and I need nothing to do with it. I'm, I would buy this actually. It's a pretty sexy watch and it's the right shade of pink. It's the right amount of black. I think it's very futuristic looking, but very cool still. I think it looks good. This has my seal of approval. - Yeah, it's certainly a neat watch. And this is, this is like one of, I feel like many Formula One inspired watches of late. - Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, they're ambassadors really taking Formula One by storm. So he's kind of in right now. And I guarantee you once, once tag officially takes over, or I should say LVMH officially takes over, for Formula One is a sponsor. We're going to get a lot more of it. So buckle in, ladies and gentlemen, 'cause it's going to be, it's going to be a big one for sure. - Dude, it's funny actually. (laughs) One of the comedian podcasts I listened to Tim Dillon out of Rance about people who, about rich people who follow F1 today. It was pretty funny. Like if you're feeling for a good laugh, his podcast round today was worth it. - So while I guess while we're on the whole F1 thing, Tudor put out a black base ceramic with the colors and it matches the get up of the, who is it, Red Bull? Is that who it is? - I can't really keep track. I think that that's who it is. - It's the Red Bull, it's what it's associated with. - Anyways, the guys had these like weird jumpsuits with like dark blue that feeds up to like Aqua and it's got all these dots on it. This looks like an IFLW collab. Like ever sees that, I know you're talking about it. - Yeah, I know you're talking about it. - A dial customizer. - That's what this looks like. This looks like one of those dial customized watches. It also kind of reminds me of the Seiko whale shark editions that I tend to make fun of 'cause they're kind of corny, but I don't know. I mean, the colors are kind of neat, but like what the hell is this? Like what are we doing here? - I don't know, man. It's like I don't get it. So the team to clarify is Visa Cash App, Red Bull. - Wow. - Okay, so whatever team that is. But yeah, so interesting speckledy suit type thing. This is the second time that they've done this already 'cause they had the blue dial that came out, which, you know, okay, I get it. Blue dial makes sense. - I'm gonna be honest, that shade of blue did not hit for me with that case. - It didn't hit 'cause it's on a freaking dive watch. Okay, like can we just take it away with that stuff? Like, you know, Doxy does cool colors on dive watches, gets away with it. This color just was weird. - I mean, they could be the case, but why not do it on the Baytona? Like I don't get this. Like why not do it on that watch? - Racing, or you could just bring back the big block. - The only watch that you have that is a racing style timepiece is the Baytona and the FXD like racing chronograph. Like why not do that? And you did it in carbon fiber and like forged carbon, like that would make total sense, but you did it in a black bag. Like I don't, it's like, all right, you're the 24 hour winner of Le Mans. - Here's your Submariner. Like what? - Feels weird. - You know what I mean? Like no, I want my Daytona, you know what I mean? Like that's the kind, it just, it feels weird. I think the colors are interesting enough, this new version though. Like the first one I was okay with, it wasn't a big deal. It was sporty enough that it was cool and it was punchy enough that it was like, you know, this thing, but now they made it like a production piece, which I thought was also weird 'cause they're like, yeah, it's never gonna be a production piece. And then we made it a production piece. And I was like, well, that's kind of like a, that's kind of like a Tiffany Blue 5711 scandal all over again. - This is the last 5711. - Yeah, that was fun. - To ever go off the shelves. Green with a green bezel or with a green with green or diamond bezel. And it's like turquoise. I'm like, Tiffany Blue, like what is happening, right? But yeah, I don't know. This, this watch does not do it for me. The newest version for Cash App, Visa, Red Bull Racing. I don't even know what team it is, but- - Also like come up with a good acronym or an abbreviation or a cute team name. That's, that is what- - I can't keep track of Formula One. I know our buddy Matt and some of the other guys from other podcasts are really big into the F1. I, one, I just don't have the time to wake up at two in the morning to see some obscure race on the other side of the world. First off, second off, it's like there's so many teams so many drivers, so many, you know, sponsors and all these things and like they all have to have their name and I can't keep track. I'm sorry, like no. This watch is not cool. I don't like it. The first one was better. But the other thing too, like, I don't know, this is Tudor like trying to be like old Tudor. Like when they first came back in the 20, in the 2012s and 2013s, when they were like doing like the North flag and kind of like, you know, the Heritage Chronos and all that, like they were kind of like riffing because they were doing this stuff that like Rolex wasn't doing. - Yeah. - And then like over the last couple of years like Rolex has really rained them in line and like, well no, you're gonna do this, you're gonna do this, you're gonna do this. Like it's gonna be ultra conservative. And now they're like, all right, we're gonna do a Tudy-Fruity Black to blue gradient speckled watch. I'm like, are you going through an identity crisis, Tudor? You're not selling a black base? You have to spice it up a bit? - I don't know, I mean, you buy one, you gotta buy them all, but. - Hey, man, it's gonna be the next AP, not in terms of desirability, but in terms of being beholden to one singular design. Are you doing pretty good when you launched Heritage Chronos and advisors and North flags and stuff? And now it's just Black Bay this, Black Bay that, Black Bay this, Black Bay that. - At some point, you're just gonna be called Black Bay. - All right, on to the next. Daniel Craig was spotted wearing a top secret sea master of late. Many people conjecture it is the, quote unquote, iron man, sea master. And by that, I mean, would you say this is a bronze gold or is this more of a moonshot? - No, I'm pretty sure based on the photos, it's got more of a reddish undertone. So it's either said and a gold, which I think is unlikely because Omega just launched a said and a gold diver on black rubber strap at the black dial, black bezel, like, I don't know, two or three weeks ago, something like that. And this watch came out, like secretly, but it's obviously not the same 'cause it's on a mesh bracelet. - Right. - But it looks like a burgundy bezel. My buddy and our friend of the show, Lorenzo, coined the term iron man very quickly. And I think it's kind of going 'cause people keep calling it the iron man - Yeah, I keep seeing you. So I'm like, yeah, we'll go with it. - I think it's a great name. It's a phenomenal name, but iron man is certainly a top one in my book for sure. But I think it's bronze gold. I really will really do. It's just got a different coloration. I mean, if you've never seen bronze gold in person compared to the saidness, saidness definitely a little bit more pink. This looks more copper in that tone. So I don't know, man, I hope it's bronze gold 'cause that would be sick to do a bronze gold mesh bracelet. And I think it would be amazing. And the watch looks really good. Like that burgundy bezel, what looks like a black dial. Maybe it's a no date. I can't really tell from the photos. There's not too many good renderings out there. - Yeah, it's hard to see. - It's really hard to see. You know, our buddy from a Megabond watches, Lorenzo, who was just talking about like he did a lot of sleuthing as much as he could, you know, really super, you know, impose some images and blow things up, post about it. So we'll see. No idea if this watch is even coming. This could be a complete teaser and it means nothing. You know what I mean? But given the last two kind of secret launches with the Daniel Craig diver and the white speed master from last year, I wouldn't be surprised if this is another piece that's just down the pipe. What do you think about it? - I mean, I think it should be cool. I'd like to see it once it's ready to go and polished up. But, you know, from all the looks, I think it looks pretty neat. - Yeah. - You know, it gives you that speed vibe from the speedy I can't afford. So. (laughing) - This said in the speedy? - Well, no, I forget what the addition was with the burgundy bezel. - Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The Apollo 11 50th anniversary. - Yeah, 60th anniversary. - 60, no 50th anniversary. - Anyway, you've seen it, it's a gold. It's got a burgundy bezel on it. - Yeah, the Nixon. That's the one. - Yeah. Kind of reminds you of that. In other sea master news, we have two new sea masters that actually formally dropped. They are also on mesh bracelets. They're a little bit different. So the one is, has a brushed aluminum dial, which I like 'cause I have an old Sega that has a brushed aluminum dial and it looks really good. And it has pretty much the same bezel as like the Necton. - Yeah. - Like that and what is it, a bladed? - Yeah, so it's titanium grade five that they laser carve or in this case laser ablate. So they carve it and it makes the number scale sit high of the rest of the bezel. It's a cool look, man. I mean, I know people are gonna say, "Oh, it's a little yacht mastery." I'm like, "Yeah, get it." And whatever, you make a positive relief bezel and all of a sudden everything's a yacht master, it's fine. But I mean, the dial's cool, man. The dial on the watch is very cool. Omega's calling this the monochrome, which I think is a little tutoree. So Lorenzo has been calling this the Silver Surfer, which I think is a better name, so. - Interesting. And then they're also giving you a black version with the wavy dial. - Yep. - And now here's an interesting thing that I've seen some people kind of gripe about is they decided to go aluminum bezel here, right? Now, any particular reasons, 'cause I know people are like, "Wait a minute. "I'm getting an aluminum bezel." I think they said they were taking the AR coating off this guy. - Externally, but yes. - Okay. - I don't know. And it's a little thicker, but I also know it's master chronometer. So I don't know, people are griping about a lot of stuff and they're basically kind of saying that they're paying more for less. - And I get that, I totally get that. This is my take on it. They didn't take away the other diver. They didn't take away the classic black with black ceramic. So what this is is it's a different style. It's essentially a Bond 60th anniversary that was done with blue aluminum dial and blue aluminum bezel and lollipop secondhand because it was a tribute to the classic Bond C-Master from the early 90s films, or I should say the mid to late 90s films, right? So this is basically just like a black version of that. It's a very stealthy watch. It feels very militaristic. I mean, people complain all the time about, Omega doing something a little bit different, even if it's riffing on its own story, but people will still go out and buy an aluminum bezel Submariner at twice retail. So your argument is BS. And we're talking about an old watch, not a new watch. This may be new to you, right? I mean, when was the last time Rolex made an aluminum bezel sub? - Yeah. - And you're still gonna go spend what? A grand on it, 10 grand, which was the retail of it 15 years ago. So, I mean, come on. It's funny how people will associate things with one specific brand and completely overlook them for another. And I think that that's kind of dumb. But the idea is if you don't like it, don't buy this one. There's plenty of other diver 300 meters that you can sink your teeth into. If you're concerned about the cost and buy the black dial ceramic with black bezel at slightly less price, it's that simple. And we're only talking a couple hundred dollars anyway. I think it's what 5900 for the regular version was ceramic. And it's this one 65 for the mesh bracelet with the aluminum. But the difference is, is the ceramic is gonna be very glossy, very shiny. It's gonna have the newer style of waves which people do like and people don't like. And then you're gonna have the classic Bond bracelet, which people do like and people don't like. And then this one is kind of more of a matted out texture, matted out finish, more of the vintage style waves. And you might like that one better because it's less shiny. Sometimes we complain that these new ceramic watches that still have the same appeal as the vintage ones because they're too shiny. Like, well, then buy this one. I don't know. I can't, you know, you guys are so ridiculous with your complaints. Like you have to complain about everything. If you don't like it, don't buy it. I like it. I think it's handsome. I have enough watches with ceramic bezels that I would be okay going to an aluminum bezel. And you know what, if I scratch it and it fades, I don't care. They look better with age anyway. And then the answer to the AR coating, Omega's doing a high dome crystal on this which is where the additional thickness is coming from. Is the crystals a double dome sapphire. But because they wanted it to feel more vintage, they did a single layer of anti-reflective coating which is just applied internally on Omega's. That's it. The standard model that you're going to get with the ceramic dial is going to have internal and external AR. So you're not getting any different because a Rolex Submariner today off the production line only has a single layer of AR coating internal. It's the same, it's the same stuff, guys. It's just Omega's doing something different for once. And if you don't like it again, just don't buy it. It's okay. Or buy something different. - That was just mesh here to stay 'cause it looks like they're really leaning into the mesh lately. - I think the mesh is a big attempt to satiate the people that hate the bond style bracelet because the biggest complaint from everyone is, oh, it doesn't taper. Well, you can't taper that design. It does not taper. The lines don't go diagonal into each other. So this is, I think, Omega's attempt to say, "You know what? We understand the feedback about the bracelet. We have to keep that bracelet because people love that bracelet." Literally, it's 50/50. If you asked 10 people what they associate with this watch, 10, five of them are gonna give you the bond bracelet, five of them are gonna say it doesn't taper and they hate it. It's just the way it is. I mean, even all of my contacts in the industry still, they're like, "Yeah, dude, it's like split. Like I can't like..." And people are really, you know, they're willing to die on that hill. And I think Omega knowing that they need to produce watches for the vast populace of people, which associate that timepiece with the bond films, who are not chronically online glued to the watch forums, they're just like, "This is a nice watch with a hefty bracelet and it feels like a quality piece and I want it on my watch." And for everyone else that wants something different, "Hey, maybe the mesh is the tapered look that you're wanting." And it feels more vintage. It feels more in line with, you know, kind of where style trends are going. And I think that that might be the solution. - Fair enough. - I mean, I don't know what else to tell people. It's kind of crazy, right? It's just, I don't know. Everyone has to hate on Omega all the time. Makes me sad. - Well, I'm gonna hate on somebody else now, so you can go on to that. - I wanna hear you rip. I just wanna hear you go. - Just my gosh. So AP puts out another collab piece with some artist from somewhere here in New York. And his little cute characters, this strange looking skull thing with the X's on his eyes. And they put him on the dial and they're gonna make this a fun hypey drop again. And so the style's got this guy with two X's on his eyes who looks like he's pleasuring two invisible dudes at once. And yeah, I don't know. What the hell is going on with this brand is really what I'm getting at here. Like AP at one point was a really cool brand. I mean, granted they were a little bit one-dimensional in some regards, but you know what? You can get a few different flavors of Royal Oak, right? They had the one that people call it the owl, they had the date functions on the inside stuff. So like you could get some different flavors and different looks there, but like where are we going? Now, like I feel like now AP is geared towards like car to be in Travis Scott, and that's what we're doing. Like it's, it doesn't feel like it has any heritage anymore. And this is what it is. And I guess if that's what you're going for, fine, I guess. A sort of guess. I don't really get it. In fact, I think it's terrible. I mean, it's fine for, you know, people that don't matter. I mean, and people that are irrelevant to the vast majority of people that exist on planet earth, it's fine for them. But for everyone else, it's no longer an aspirational brand. Like that's, I think that's the bigger thing is because it's, I think the same thing is going to go on with what you, what Terry Stern said, where he's like, well, haters, they're not going to buy it anyway. I don't care. Okay. But haters get rich too. And now they're not going to want this. Yeah. If I stumble into a billion dollars, I don't want an AP now. That might sound stupid, but I don't. And you know what? I kind of don't want to protect now either, Terry. So I guess I'm devoid going to buy a badge from a constitution. I think that they win by not being idiots. So. Hey man, just wait, just wait for the climb of Rege. It's coming. I can feel it. I can feel it, dude. I'm serious about this. Or, I mean, hey, universal. I mean, I don't know if we're going to get there. And I'll slow your roll, right? Okay. But I will say this. I mean, to your point, man, like, you know, you have brands that are alienating their client base. They're focusing on it. It's, it's so devoid of, of, of reality, right? The fact that, that, you know, Terry Stern comes out and is like, look, haters are going to hate. The pores are the pores. The rich are the rich. And the pores will never buy my stuff anyway. Like that's basically what he said. To like the 99% of the industry that would be aspiring to own a paddock, right? Because realistically, 1% of people can buy them and procure them. Like actually, not just have the necessary funds to buy them, but have the ability to walk into a store and actually get an allocation. Okay. That's crazy. So basically just told that 99% of the people that are in this hobby, hey, you're a poor piece of crap. And I don't care about you. You are not rich enough to be deserved of owning a paddock. Okay. You know what dude? Screw you. Kick rocks. Yeah. You know what? Like you said, even if I became affluent, I became wealthy. I'm definitely not going to buy one of those pieces. And after you just said that and then annoyed us with the cubitists, you had zero credibility in my opinion anymore. Like I'm sorry. That's fine. All you're going to do is going to sell mediocre mid watches to hyped up two rich boys with trust funds who have no sense at all, but all the money in the world. And that's fine. If that's who you want your collector base to be, a bunch of Neil frat boys that have trust funds. Cool dude. Go ahead. The rest of us that live in reality will be busy buying other things that are actually more aspirational. And to your point too, with AP, like I have no idea what they're doing. Like I thought things were going to change now that we moved into a female CEO and things were going to be a little bit different. There was going to be some new energy into this. I think it's gotten worse. Look, I don't know. Like all you're becoming is more hype. It's all hype culture. It's all inflated ego. It's all stuff that is so not relevant to the rest of the people that used to consume your product. There was so many people that I knew that were like, dude, I've been saving. I've been saving. I've been saving. I just really just want to get a Jumbo 41 AP. Like, you know, like that was an aspirational watch. I want to get a Royal Oak. I want to get a Royal Oak Chrono. I want to get a Royal Oak offshore. Like I don't hear that anymore. And look, not for nothing. I mean, people, memories are very short. But I mean, they're brands, you know, you think Bugatti now, you think expensive supercar. Bugatti not that long ago was not a prestigious sought after car. No. Things come in cycles. And I'm not saying that's the fate of AP per se, but it takes one bad business move. One, it takes one. The bigger you are, the harder you fall. And that's just a life lesson for anything. When you alienate people, you spit on them, you spite them, you don't give them what they want. You tell them they're not worthy enough. Eventually, they're going to hear you and they're going to leave you. It's just the way it is. Because people don't like being lectured and they don't like being talked down to. It's just human nature, okay? And when you tell enough people that they're not worthy of your product, you know what dude? Hey, your product's not worthy of me. If I have enough internal fortitude and my own thinking as a rational human being, I'm like, you know what dude, it's just not worth it. Why am I going to exhaust myself to try to run mental hurdles around maybe trying to get your product? Only for you to tell me I'm not worthy to have it in the first place. So you know what, my opinion is no longer valid. Get out of here, dude. I'm sorry, not going to happen with me. And it shouldn't, it shouldn't. But get ready. Because as these brands continually alienate people, it's going to leave the market open for other brands to crush it. I'm going to call this right now. If you ever thought about buying a brigade, because you like the brand, you like the history, you think they're underappreciated, buy it now. Buy it now. Because in the next five to 10 years, the price that you think brigade is at today will not be the same price it is tomorrow. I guarantee that. It's going to happen. Because brigade is going to come back. And this is a prime time to do it. You got brands pushing people away. You got too many things with hype pieces. You're going to have a brand that's going to come back with real or logical roots, has no hype behind it and just come out of the gate. Get ready. It's going to happen. This is a prime time for that. But I don't know. I just think it's weird. I mean, especially, look, you know, again, there are always, oh, these, no, I'm not too worried about these, you know, average Joe Schmoes. Like, dude, I have friends who become millionaires in the past year from Bitcoin going to $100,000. Like, it happens. Like, guess what? If they asked me for a watch recommendation, Oh, I was going to be a buy. Guess what? I'll get a point of fashion on. I will. Yeah. Why not? Like, why not? Well, I think do you really want to be in the club with Cardi B? No. I don't. Absolutely not. Do you want to own something from a guy who was willing to, you know, piss on you and laugh at you two days ago? No. Absolutely not. And the thing is too, I know that that guy has more money than all of us in the world. Like he's that wealthy. But I look at that guy. I'm like, that's who's talking down to me? This fat, blubbery nerd. Yeah. Okay. It's like, don't, don't meet me in real life, bro. People like that to talk to people in that way, they get punched out real fat. I know you know what I'm talking about, bro. You grew up in the Northeast. Now, I mean, it is what it is. It's got beat up for a lot less than that. No, for sure, for sure. I've seen some dumb, dumb shit go down for plenty of times. Now, I mean, allegedly it was taken and translated from an article. I don't know how far you can drag a translation. No, that's, that's a, that's a cop out. I'm sorry, it's, that's a cop out. But for me more than anything, it signals insecurity and weakness from a, what we'll call a Tiffany brand. And what I mean by that is like a, a brand that cannot be tarnished type of thing, right? Except it's, it's, it's purely ego. It's just coming from a place of like, no matter what we do, we're going to sell everything. Everyone sucks. It doesn't matter if we make a crap or sub product, because at the end of the day, you guys are going to gobble it all up. Like that's, that's essentially what he was telling, are telling us. He's like, it doesn't matter what we make. Poor people are going to not be able to afford it. So their opinion doesn't matter, but rich people are the who we really cater to anyway. So we listen to them. What he should have said is like, look, you know, the brand is going in a different direction. We decided to move on from the 5711. It's a historical piece that'll be part of the Patec archives for many, many years, but we decided to move into a different direction for a new generation of Patec owners. Something along the lines like that would have been, okay, I can live with that. But for you to come up with this design that everyone knew was half baked and then spit on everyone's face when they called you on it instead of responding in kind to be positive and not detrimental to the brand, you're just like, you know what, burn it. Come at me, bro. - I guess, I mean, even if you were just like, we're not really concerned with, you know, what goes on outside of our walls. - Yeah. - Like good, go with that, you know? - Again, like you said, it just lends itself to insecurity. - It does. And honestly, it signals weakness, so it makes you wonder if there's more going on within, you know, the walls of these trinity houses that everybody holds in such high regard. Like, I don't know. - I mean, it was just such an out of character thing. And again, it was very out of character. - To use a translation as a cop out, I'm like, get out of here, dude. Like, the one thing I will know about the French having, or this was that, you know, have a lot of French influence. I mean, their culture is that they're, they have no filters. Like European people typically do not have any filters because they're used to speaking their mind. And they don't think the way that Westerners, like, you know, people that live in America think. - I mean, my family certainly didn't. - I mean, they have zero filters. Like, that's just the reality. So what he said, he has said before, I guarantee you that, because it came out very naturally. - Listen, it's never fun to be the butt of the joke, but also, I mean, you bring it on yourself. What are you doing? - I mean, again, you're 100% right. It's just, it's just, you can't alienate people and you cannot denigrate people and you cannot lecture people like that. You should have had a little bit more in testing a four to two than back bone to be like, you know what? This is something that we're doing. It's new, it's a new design, it's a new era, it's whatever. You know, we believe in our design team and our products and we're gonna continue to produce incredible time pieces for generations to come. Like, that would have been at least respectable. But you're like, hey, we know the design sucks, but you know, poor people can't afford it anyway, but the rich people were gonna buy it anyway, because we told them to buy it. Like, that's, that's literally what you said. Like, it's crazy to me. But you know what, I don't know. I'm being a dead horse. - Terri Cenergetic is on, Dave. - Yeah, it's a clown, but it is what it is. I just feel like there's a lot going on within that part of the industry that a lot of us, I think a lot of us don't even pay attention to, because they're just, like you said, outrageously priced and low allocation. So with the hand, - And the blogs that we're carrying their water for so long are like, they're not even, they're not even good enough to read. So yeah, there's that too. There's that too. You have, you have people in editorial teams that work at these blogs, you know, they can't write about a watch that that's that complex without just, you know, rephrasing the, the, the, the press kit. And I mean, like all they're doing is changing the words and the press getting posting and like, come on, take zero effort to do that. - Yeah, I don't know. But when I see stuff like this, I'm just like, what are you doing? - How did I get here? - Again, I mean, people always talk about, everybody's always complaining about innovation innovation. This is, this is not innovation. And then we were not seeing any of it. - And except for code 1159s. - Which people are only buying because-- - To get to the Royal Oaks. - Yeah. Yeah. - So. - And the thing is, it's funny about the, the whole, the whole paddock story is every single person that I knew in the industry, after that happened, and we didn't cover this, but every, every single person that I've talked to since that happened, as like, yeah, dude, I have no desire to ever get a paddock. Every single person. Now, take that with a grain of salt. This is just my small microcosm of the watch industry, people that I know that are, you know, they represent brands, they sell these brands, they, you know, they deal in vintage or pre-owned or whatever. But they've made any less and less requests for those pieces, and most of these people that are retailers are like, yeah, it's like, you know, me personally, no desire to get one now. It was a very stupid thing to do, and stupid thing to say. - Well. (laughs) - Welcome back. - Pepperd's farm remembers. - Yeah, Pepperd's farm remembers. Oh, I love that. - Fun. - That is what it is. That's just, I saw this and I was like, this sucks. I hope everybody else thinks so. - Oh, they do. I know they do. - So in a sea of black panthers and artists collabs and whatever the hell else a-- - Rogue CEOs. - Yeah, like, who knows what's going on. I mean, again, like, I, the numbers came out, the financial numbers, like for the industry as a whole, they were not, I don't think. - No. - So. - This year has been very soft for a lot of brands, for sure. - Well, I've been, there's a lot of transitions going on and things-- - Yeah, sure. - That was a lot of uncertainty, so. - That's not uncommon, but still-- - No, every four years this happens this way, right? Yeah, we all know. - But yeah, just, but listen, if that uncertainty sticks around or lingers within certain luxury sectors that are not vital to human existence, you know, you might be in for some pain. Like I said, you know, it's, these brands were like, are thought to be untarnishable, but we'll see. - Oh yeah, nothing, nothing is permanent in this world. - No. So, that's that, that's all. Set people off with that. (laughing) - Sounds good. - All right. Yeah, until next time, well, I guess we'll be doing it after Thanksgiving, here in the US, at least. - Yeah. - Yeah, so it'll be next week. (upbeat music) - See you then. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music)