Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard

Will a Dallas Thanksgiving disaster get Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll fired?

Duration:: 1h 54m
Broadcast on:: 27 Nov 2024
Audio Format:: other

New York Daily News NFL columnist Pat Leonard previews a must-win Thanksgiving Giants trip to Dallas that could determine whether Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll stay or go @Bleav, including a conversation about Malik Nabers' postgame comments and restlessness with the Giants' losing. Pat takes all fan questions and dives into Drew Lock's potential start, Tommy DeVito's injury, the Giants' and Cowboys' players available and not for Week 13 and more. SUBSCRIBE to the @PLonNFL YouTube page to get the latest Giants updates and news delivered directly to you, and to participate in regular LIVE Q&A chats with Pat. Purchase a Super Chat or Super Sticker to have your comments elevated to the top of the feed and have Pat answer your question FIRST! Watch the full video of this @Bleav podcast on Pat's YouTube Channel. Find Pat also on 'X' (@PLeonardNYDN), Instagram (@PLonNFL) & TikTok (@PLonNFL). Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard is brought to you by MyBookie. It’s MyBookie’s 10th year anniversary, and they’re rolling out the red carpet for bettors, including Risk-Free Thursdays and weekly no-sweat bets all season long. Use the promo code 'PATSPICKS' here to get your first deposit of $50 or more matched 100% up to $1,000 plus a $10 casino chip. Make your Football season a winning season with MyBookie! Bet Anything, Anytime, Anywhere. Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard is also sponsored by @BoomChaga and @Estate98Coffee. BOOM Chaga Mushroom SuperDrink is a natural extract loaded with anti-inflammatory, immune-boosting antioxidants and heart-healthy compounds. Go to BoomChaga.com and use the code TALKINBALL25 to get a 25% discount on your first Subscribe and Save Order. Estate98 Coffee is a specialty coffee concentrate that's perfect when you want to make a quick cup of coffee and skip the lines. It takes less than 10 seconds to make a delicious Estate 98 iced or hot coffee, it’s great as a mixer for espresso martinis and each bottle can make up to 16 cups. Go to estate98.com/talkinball to get an exclusive offer for 80% off your first order.

[MUSIC PLAYING] This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance, fiscally responsible, financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are the things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save. Progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates, potential savings will vary, not available in all states or situations. [MUSIC PLAYING] All right, everybody. Pat Leonard here from the New York Daily News and the Talking Ball with Pat Leonard Podcast on the Believe Network. This is Talking Ball with Pat Leonard Live. Thanksgiving preview edition, Giants, Cowboys, some NFL action. Fun times during the holidays, obviously, you get a lot of football, a lot of days with at least one game, so you don't have to wait. For the next time you're going to get the NFL action, it doesn't go from week 11 to week 12, and you're sitting twiddle in your thumbs, waiting for Thursday night, waiting for Sunday. We have Black Friday football with prime video. It's all chock full. I know I had that fun game I received from Amazon. It's Black Friday bingo playing that with the Chiefs Raiders game that's going to be fun sitting there with the family once I get off the plane from Dallas. But that's what we're here to talk about first. We're here to talk about the Giants and the Cowboys, Brian and Abel, Joe Shane, high stakes for them coming off of a disastrous loss against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers after the Giants had their buy. Stakes of job status, potential firings coming if they don't get a result. If we see more plays on the field where it's fair to question players' efforts. Everything is on the table right now. Pressure ratcheted up. I was in the Giants locker room today. Tuesday, November 26th, talking to players, listening to Brian, Abel, conduct his press conference before they conducted a walkthrough practice where Drew Locke ended up finally taking some reps. A lot happening with the Giants, a lot evolving. It's almost like if you missed 24 hours worth of news with the Giants, you are so far behind. And that's why we're here to catch you up on the Giants, to talk a little NFL and to talk whether it's Malik neighbors, Tommy DeVito, the injury report for the game, the recent history of this rivalry. And of course, we're going to give you our estate 98 Giants trivia question, give you guys a chance to win a free bottle of a specialty coffee concentrate that sponsors our podcast here and that we highly recommend for cold or hot coffee on the go. And thank you first to our sponsors. I want to start with my bookie. My bookie rolls out the red carpet for sports betters, especially on these Thursday games. They have risk free bets, but for Thanksgiving, they have some extra special bets. Now it's important for you to go and sign up with my bookie right now because my Pat's picks were undefeated three and O in week 12. We had the Buccaneers, the Lions and the Broncos all covering against the spread, making you money there. Also, my understanding is the deal we have running right now is not going to last forever. Might end after Thanksgiving and change. So here's the deal, you sign up, you click on the link in my social media profile, you go and make your first deposit and use the promo code, Pat's picks, and you can get a 100% match on that first deposit all the way up to $1,000. So if you deposit $1,000 for your first deposit, you will get a free and extra grand in your account to spend and play with on my bookie and keep winning with Pat's picks. You'll also get a $10 casino chip. So go do that today and here's some fun deals they have going as well. Number one, a Thanksgiving risk free boost with my bookie. So the bet can't lose, here's how it works. They're boosting the odds that Devon A chain in Miami Dolphins running back is going to score the first touchdown when the Dolphins play the Packers on Thanksgiving. So if he hits and he scores that first touchdown, you win the bet, if it doesn't, they refund the wager. Max bet there is $25. And another fun thing, the Thanksgiving telegram pool. I don't know if you're familiar with telegram and that app, but join the pool that grows with every sign up. Subscribe to my bookies telegram channel before Sunday, December 1st and guarantee yourself a share of $15,000 in free play. All subscribers to the telegram channel will share in the free play. The prize pool starts at 15,000 and grows by five grand for every thousand new subscribers between November 25th and December 1st. So fun things going on at my bookie and also a check back on my social media channels, whether it's Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Threads, X, or Twitter, whatever you wanna call it. And on Wednesday and Thursday, you can find my Pat's picks. I'll pick all the Thursday games just to have some fun with it, pick all those Thanksgiving games, get you guys going, get you started for the weekend, and also give you my Pat's picks for the weekend coming up in week 13. And of course, the Giants Sprinkle coming for Thanksgiving stay tuned for that. Also brought to you here by Boom Chaga Mushroom Super Drink, right over here over my shoulder, a natural extract loaded with anti-inflammatory, immune-boosting antioxidants and heart-healthy compounds. You can easily pour this natural liquid supplement into any of your favorite drinks. I put mine in my coffee every morning and immediately feel the difference. I personally have felt a post-workout like Energy Boost with Boom. 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It's also great as a mixer for espresso martinis and each bottle can make up to 16 cups. Go to estate98.com/talkingBall and get an exclusive offer for 80% off your first order. And we'll roll right into our estate 98 giant trivia question. If you're unfamiliar, every week we do a free giveaway. I will ask you a giant trivia question. The first correct answer in our comment section in the chat wins a free bottle of estate 98 coffee. If you win, you'll direct message me, your address, or a PO box. And estate 98 will mail you a free bottle of that specialty coffee concentrate. So your question is straightforward and simple. The giants are playing here on Thanksgiving. The giants have played 17 times on Thanksgiving. Most recently, obviously, they played in Dallas as well in 2022 and lost 28 to 20. Trivia question is, what is the giants most recent victory on Thanksgiving? Give me the year and give me the opponent. For bonus points, you could give me the final score and also the giant who scored the only touchdown in the game. So again, your giants estate 98 trivia question of the day, which is the most recent victory for the giants on Thanksgiving. So which year did they win their most recent victory on Thanksgiving? Who did they beat and the bonus questions? Just to show everybody how big of a giants fan you are and how much you know is what was the score and who scored the winning touchdown for the giants. Wow, that was an immediate answer there from Benjamin with the victory over the Lions in 1982. And the touchdown scored by Lawrence Taylor. That was immediate. He knows what he's talking about. See, there's D kit saying as well, 13 to six in Detroit. That was the score. You guys know what you're talking about. Lawrence Taylor scored the touchdown. Who did he intercept? Who threw the interception that Lawrence Taylor returned 97 yards in the fourth quarter? Well done, well done. All right, let's see. Let's get into the queue. Reminder everybody. Thanks for being here, first of all. Secondly, as I see the super chats rolling in, the best way to have your commenter question answered is to pay for a super chat. It will elevate your commenter question to the top of the queue. I will continue to go through the questions and the queue in the comments and try to get to as many as I can throughout. But I really appreciate the support. And thank you so much to everybody who contributes and keeps supporting talking ball live here on the Believe Network and on my YouTube channel, PL on NFL. Remember, if you're not subscribed, please subscribe. And if you're already subscribed and you're here watching, listening and participating and talking ball live, please hit those thumbs up. Please hit those like buttons while we are live. That helps create additional engagement. Tells that YouTube algorithm to go reach out and find those giant fans who somehow still don't know what we're talking about. The best way to support our channel, those super chats also by supporting our sponsors. So my bookie is the best way to support our channel. So my bookie is the best way to support our channel. So my bookie is the best way to support our channel. There are a couple of super chats in the queue already. We will start with those and then get back into the queue. The best way to support our channel, those super chats also by supporting our sponsors. So my bookie is the best way to support our channel. And also by supporting our sponsors. So my bookie boom chaga and estate 98. All right. Here we go. Chris Spires checks in with a $5 super chat. Chris, thank you very much. How you doing? Chris says, do you think of the Giants fire the GM they hire from within? That's what the Giants normally do. Chris, that would be a possibility for sure. Brandon Brown, obviously, is an up-and-comer in the industry. Chris Rosetti, honestly, I think is an interesting name as well. I'm not saying he's ready to be a general manager yet, but he is somebody who I would want to continue to pick his brain and talk more to him about personnel and about his ideas about team building. Because from what I understand talking to people and also from watching him on hard knocks, I think we can all agree that he seemed to be somebody who was dispassionately evaluating things more accurately than some others were. And so those are two names that would jump out to me. I've said here before, I'll say again, like I think Tim McDonald, you know, director of personnel, nephew to John Mara. So ties to ownership, but also personnel chops. I think he's somebody who has continued to rise through the organization, commands a lot of respect, and would also be someone to keep on the radar. I mean, he's very involved already, obviously. You guys saw he was there at Colorado. There were videos that surfaced of Dion Sanders, Tim McDonald, Brandon Brown, Joe Shane and Jesse Armstead out there at Colorado this week. You know, interesting timing that the Giants are kind of that this is getting pushed and promoted on social media, that they're on the road scouting this. Obviously, they need to end up in Dallas anyway. So I guess might as well hit the road and get those extra miles in. And get some extra work in on quarterbacks, because that is obviously the market they're in. But, you know, definitely an optics game. The NFL is, and that's what that is. Those are optics. You know, look at how hard we're working, right? But that is the job. The job is to get to the bottom of who these players are, who these prospects are, and to pick the ones that make your franchise better, make your team better. And so far, this regime has really struggled to do that. And that's why we are sitting in the position we're in. But Chris, I hope that answers your question. Those are some names that come to mind for me. I'm not saying they're going to hire internally. I would not say that's definitive. I do think my vantage point, you know, this doesn't mean it wouldn't happen. But from my vantage point, Brandon Brown has been right there every step of the way with the decisions that Joe Shane has made. I don't quite think he would be GM ready. And I also don't think he would be able to separate himself from the results of what has happened here. So that's my take. Obviously, the Giants might have a different take if it comes to that, but that's my two cents there. Daniel Hirsch, what's going on with the $10 Super Chat says, what was the real story with the Jones re-signing? Who was responsible between coach, general manager, and owners? Well, Daniel, what we know, what I know is that. So let's start with who was putting in the work to the 11th hour to get it done. Joe Shane was in the room along with the Giants salary cap team, right? You know, you have Kevin Abrams involved. You have Ed Triggs involved in the salary cap and the structuring of the contracts, along with the athletes first agents. But Joe Shane was grinding away to get that done. Now, John Mara was involved. We do know that John Mara, I believe Albert Breer was the one who reported that John Mara was on the phone with Daniel Jones during that 11th hour in order to help try to get it over the finish line. So that is a detail that we do know. And then, you know, Brian Dable was involved in bringing him back, obviously. But, you know, re-signing contract structure, that falls on the general manager, that falls on, you know, ownership, but Dable, you know, supported it. Certainly, when Joe Shane spoke in the, in his press conference at the buy about getting that they essentially were drinking their own juice coming off of 2022, there was a thought in the building that, okay, we came in and we proved that we have the coaching ability to make Daniel work and to turn him into that franchise quarterback. And now we have him already in the building. We came in wondering if we actually had one, now we believe we do. So Dable was a part of that miscalculation after that promising 2022 season, which obviously was buoyed by an encouraging defense and good game planning and wasn't exactly like an offense that lit the world on fire, but they got the most out of what they could with Jones and with that offense and with that team. Also had some real good character guys that turned out on that team that they've since let go, and we've seen the negative results of that. But Daniel, I think I don't think it's accurate to point to that situation as John Mara or ownership forcing the hand of the general manager and the coach. I don't think that's accurate and, you know, but it would also be inaccurate to say that ownership was not involved, right? So that's the best way I could put that. Chris says, if Giants fire coach and GM, I love them to hire a veteran coach and GM. Yeah, I do do Chris. I think, you know, it tends in the NFL. Often it tends to go back and forth between, like, let's say you end up with a coach who is looser with things, right? Like a Pat Schurmer. And then, you know, it gets so loose and players have such free reign and they're so little structure and you're looking to get back to basics and fundamentals and structure. So, in comes a Joe Judge, right? And then, you know, there's a reaction to the end of that tenure where players don't want to practice as hard. And, you know, everybody wants to be friends. And so, in comes Brian Dable, in addition to the fact that the offense needed a huge reboot as the Giants offense always seems to need. And so, Brian Dable fits that mode. But now, it all, it kind of feels like you need to swing that pendulum back. You know, of course, we all talk about and think about when we have this conversation, Tom Coughlin, right? Unfortunately, that time has passed, but it's not crazy to sit here and say that what the Giants need is a Coughlin type in the mold of how you command the room, how you lead the team, how you build a team, how you set expectations, right? I think, like, from my vantage point, you know, I agree with you. You know, I don't, I'm not saying Mike Rabel's going to be their next coach or anything, but that's definitely a name that makes sense as a consideration for that, of course. Now, if they want an offensive coach, now that changes things, you know, I've said that Brian Flores would be, I think, a good candidate if he wasn't suing the organization for allegedly screwing him over during the last interview process, right? But those are the types of names that come to mind. Belichick, obviously, we've talked about him here, but I don't disagree with you, Chris, and general manager-wise. Yeah, I think, I think what you want. Now, it's, this is, this is what's crazy about the Joe Shane regime. So the crazy thing about the Joe Shane regime is that as much as, as much as Dave Gedelman did a poor job in team building and, you know, had the Giants dug in a steep hole, salary cap wise, roster wise, et cetera, you can see that Joe Shane has actually made, you know, Gedelman look like a better drafter because at least with some of his high draft picks, Dave Gedelman took good players. Now, he didn't build a good team and he certainly missed on guys like, you know, a DeAndre Baker, let's say, right? And of course, he ended up picking Daniel Jones at a place in the draft where it did turn out that it was too high for the player. He ended up being for the organization, right? But, you know, Andrew Thomas, Dexter Lawrence, Saquon Barkley, of course, Saquon wasn't the right pick at that time for the Giants. They misevaluated and they were clinging to Eli Manning at that point. But my point is, you know, that was a quote unquote veteran GM or a veteran personnel guy who at least it seemed like if you stack that up against Joe Shane's drafts, at least you can look at the first rounders and say, you know, hey, the Giants actually got some players out of this regime, right? The Giants general manager right now. You're looking at Cavon Thibodeau, Evan Neal, Deontay Banks, Malik neighbors. And even you look at those second round picks, right? A Juan Dale Robinson, a John Michael Schmitz, a Tyler Neubin right now still still in his first year, but it's just not good enough. You know, and so I think from a personnel standpoint, you need to get back to basics of can we just please when we have significant and valuable draft capital? Can we please just get players in the building who can start games and be, you know, at a reliable level, right? So really good comments and questions there. Thank you for the super chats and the super stickers. Happy Thanksgiving, everybody. Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours, to your family. I hope everybody gets to spend a lot of time with their family. This Thanksgiving weekend, this holiday weekend. I hope you, you know, enjoy all the sides as I do, you know? I'll eat turkey or ham, more of a ham guy, but whatever's on the table. Love the sides, love the sweet potatoes, the candied sweet potatoes. You know, I love putting like 50 things on my plate and just kind of eating it all at once. That's me. And, you know, won't be with my family on Thanksgiving because I'll be at Jerry World at AT&T Stadium, but Jerry Jones takes pretty good care of us. And, um, and so be down there and looking forward to seeing some friends. And even though it will be either Drew Locke or Tommy DeVito versus Cooper Rush instead of Dak Prescott versus Daniel Jones as the season started. Um, you know, looking forward to some fireworks because we all know that they're going to come. Um, some stats to give you guys before I jump in with Manzo's comment here. Um, the Giants have lost their last seven games to the Dallas Cowboys. So they're 0 and 7 in their last seven. They're also 1 and 14 in their last 15 games against the Cowboys. That includes an 0 and 5 record against the Dallas Cowboys under Joe Shane and Brian Dable. And they have been outscored in those five games, 160 to 68. That includes a loss in 2022. Their first loss to the Cowboys, actually 23 to 16 at home to Cooper Rush and the Dallas Cowboys. Uh, Cooper Rush, obviously a cup of coffee with the Giants. Um, now with the Cowboys and a capable starter. Um, he's not going to shred a defense typically with his arm, but he can manage a game, balance a game out. And certainly the Giants defense is a defense that can be taken advantage of by a sound and discipline Cowboys team. Now the Giants and Cowboys both have injuries. We'll get into that. Uh, we'll talk about Malik neighbors and we'll talk about the quarterbacks and whatever else you guys want. But I do want to get into the questions and that can get us going on all of those topics. All right. Manzo, what do you got? Let's see. Manzo says, thanks for keeping it real and not pushing the Giants narrative like most of the beat writers do. We can see through the bullshit. John Dorsey for GM and Vrable for head coach. Manzo, I don't hate that. I don't hate that combo. John Dorsey, Vrable. Don't hate it at all. Don Dorsey, seasoned personnel guy, no nonsense. Uh, Vrable, a guy who's going to get the locker room and the team in check. You know, the Giants do have a leadership problem, I think. Like there are some leaders in the locker room. Uh, but, you know, this is what happens when a general manager, like Joe Shane mis-evaluates and doesn't fully grasp and understand. Um, the value of a guy like Saquon Barkley to a team, like as Darius Slaton told me, Saquon Barkley was bigger than football as far as what his role was with this Giants team. He was kind of, he was part of the fabric. He was keeping a lot of it together, especially when times were tough. Um, and you heard Teddy Bruce good NFL countdown on Sunday say that Joe Shane let the culture walk, walk out the door when he let Saquon Barkley walk out the door because Saquon was the culture. Uh, this is our first talking ball live with Pat Leonard since Saquon went absolutely bonkers in Los Angeles against the Rams at 302 total yards, 255 yards rushing, including two touchdowns over 70 yards, 70 exactly and 72, I believe. It's almost unfathomable. How worst case scenario this season has unfolded for Joe Shane, Brian Dable and for the Giants, you know, even if it went badly and their decision backfired on them. First of all, for everyone to have seen how poorly it went down and how it happened on hard knocks. And then for Saquon Barkley to not only be having a strong season, but to be in the conversation as a top MVP candidate, which by the way, if you guys have been following and watching my episodes with Fenny Fowler on talking ball with Pat Leonard podcast, we've been talking about Saquon Barkley as a strong MVP candidate, like a top five top three MVP candidate for at least the last two weeks prior to this one prior to this last game and had him on the board and I think in four or five the four or five slot couple weeks ago and then prior to last week, we had him in the top three and I had him as in contention for one already. So now he does this to the Rams and it's over the top. It is literally leading all of the shows around the country. Saquon Barkley, the Eagles and the Giants. It is truly a worst case scenario. Antonio says, "What's up, Pat? Do you expect DeVito to play?" I don't know Antonio. I have questions, definitely sketchy how this was handled. DeVito obviously got pummeled on Sunday by the Buccaneers, then somehow wasn't on the injury report on Monday, even though several Giants were. And then here on Tuesday, Brian Dable suddenly announces that Tommy DeVito's arm is sore and so he's going to be limited. Then we go and talk to DeVito, who is now on the injury report. Obviously, he was banged up on Monday too and the Giants just didn't put him on it. Dable claims he didn't know he was hurt or banged up until Tuesday morning. But then DeVito says, "Yeah, my next kind of stiff, my body sore, my whole body sore, all those hits are adding up and taking a toll." So just a circus. And now we have Drew Locke taking some reps during the walkthrough here on Tuesday and East Rutherford at the Giants facility. We weren't able to monitor or watch the Giants walkthrough. They didn't have uniforms on. It was literally a walkthrough in their gym clothes essentially on the field. But Brian Dable doesn't give reps to guys when they're not the starter. So to give Drew Locke some reps and then Drew Locke and Tommy DeVito both do their press conferences. And so usually the starter does a presser. So the fact that they both had to do one indicates they truly are both options going into this game. Tommy DeVito said the plan is to play, but we will see tomorrow, meaning Wednesday when he might try to open it up and throw a little bit. I get the sense. I also think from a roster and team management standpoint, I mean, first of all, we know that they can step in it and not do the right thing. So this doesn't mean they're not going to do this. But to me, you skip over Drew Locke. It's humiliating. It's poor management. It's poor roster management. It reflects poorly on your own personnel evaluations as an organization. You skip over him to Tommy DeVito, which looks like an optics-driven decision to try to get the fans riled up as well. As Brian Dable said, they were just trying to put the best offense on the field. He thought it was going to light a spark. Obviously, completely backfires. But how do you now with DeVito banged up? How do you go to Locke as like, oh, yeah, he might start. He might play, start giving him reps and then pull him right back out and say, oh, no, never mind. We're not going to go with that. That would be, that would be cruel. Obviously at the professionals, it's the NFL. Guys have to deal with the business side of it. But to me, DeVito got smoked. He actually got banged up. He said, especially near the end of the game. If you remember, the Giants were up, or the Giants were down 30 to 7. The game was over. And really, he took at least three, maybe four big hits down the stretch of that game in the last five minutes, including I think two in the final minute. Basically, Brian Dable and the Giants are just throwing the ball trying to score more points to make the final score look better. And Tommy DeVito takes several extra hits while doing that. So everything's great here at the play. Mrs. Lincoln. So that's where we're at with the Giants. Jacob, great to see you. Says, my Yukon Huskies lost today in Hawaii. He says, Pat, isn't it weird how neighbors said today? He should have said it differently. But he stands with what he said. It's obvious, Dable, Shane, or Mara ripped into him. Well, it's also interesting that he got called to the principal's office. It's also very important to note that Joe Shane and Brian Dable both talked to Malik neighbors in that conversation. This is something I've been stressing to everybody as people try to dissect where the blame should fall and whether, you know, okay, does Joe Shane got fired and not Dable? Is it Dable and not Shane and Shane stays? To me, this is such a general manager driven operation. And he and Dable are both tied at the hip. So if you notice, when you watch, you know, a lot of the times they're doing those press conferences and they're both sitting up there together next to each other looking like the package deal, the collaborative group, right? That's all they talk about collaboration, collaboration. We're both involved in everything. If you're both involved in everything, how do you blame one and not the other, right? Number two, Joe Shane has been in the locker room several times talking to players in the locker room. Very interesting. But he's everywhere. Everything. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Physically responsible, financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to progressive and save hundreds. Because Progressive offers discounts for pain and full, owning a home, and more. Plus, you can count on their great customer service to help you when you need it. So your dollar goes a long way. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save on car insurance. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. I think, you know, he's in the giants film sessions. You know, the Mondays after their games. The general manager in there with the coaches and the players. He's got his hands in everything. And so he's got his hands in this conversation with Malik neighbors as well. And obviously, no one has more riding on Malik neighbors. You know, not calling them soft and basically blitzing their entire operation than Joe Shane and Brian Dable. Because essentially, neighbors not only questioning their game planning and the coaches play calling, but also, you know, it's good for neighbors to stress. This isn't good enough because he's 100% right and nobody should be okay with it. But the idea that a 21 year old rookie feels like he can go up there and say that that reflects on Joe Shane and Brian Dable when they were deciding who they're selecting in this draft. It's like, okay, is this a player whose intensity we can manage and harness in the right way, right? So this could be something that helps the Giants if they listen to them. They try to get them the ball more and they start calling more plays for him, better plays for him. They get more creative and that kind of thing. But Malik neighbors is frustration and intensity also could help be what undoes them because it resulted and was a huge part and a headlining part of an explosive locker room that essentially turned the Giants organization on its head after this Buccaneers loss, which remain aluminum or Dexter Lawrence, Brian birds, Malik neighbors, Darius Layton, all these guys saying, essentially enough is enough. And so fascinating where neighbors is now some highlights of what he said today. You're right. He said, so I asked him what Joe Shane and Dable said to him and how that meeting went. And he said that we talked about it that they know he's a competitor and that Shane and Dable said that after watching the film, they don't think the Giants played soft like neighbors said after the game. And so neighbors says, you know, after I looked, it wasn't soft. It was just a lack of technique and communication. But he also says, and we didn't have the authority to go out there and win. We didn't have the grit to go out there and win the game. So, you know, really, this is just different ways of saying effort. You know, Dexter Lawrence took, took. He was not happy with the media feeling that the media misled what he and some of the players said about being soft. And he tried to, or what Dexter's point of view was, was that he said they played soft as far as tackling an execution, but not that they were soft in terms of effort. But, you know, that's, that's fine that he thinks that. But here's the thing. If you say an athlete or a team is soft, soft is soft. Like that's what that means. Soft means soft. And Brian Dabel said on a Zoom call on Monday, he admitted, you know, there were, there were some instances. He did admit it. He also, instead of calling an effort, he said there were plays where guys need to chase the ball better. I mean, what are we talking about here? Now, neighbors is saying, yeah, we weren't soft. We just need more authority and grit and how we play. It's all the same description. We've all seen the clips. There aren't many players on the Giants roster that you can say that there weren't, that wasn't at least one play in that Buccaneers game where they didn't look like they were giving a hundred percent. You know, Jermaine Illuminaur was walking back some of his comments today in the locker room as well. It was very clear that Joe Shane and Brian Dabel are working and the organization is working very hard to try to publicly make it look better than it did on Sunday. Jacob says smack that like and sub button for the best reporter in the business. Thank you, Jacob. He says, Pat, not sure if you saw the video on Brown and Shane in Boulder watching Colorado practice. Who was the other guy with them? Yeah, that was Tim McDonald and Jesse Armstead. Chronicle says, Pat, I think you're right, at least with Dabel. He has lost the locker room and it's out of control. There's no leadership on this team. Dabel press conferences are starting to piss me off after the losses, especially. Yeah. You know what bother, one thing that bothers me now, you know, Dabel obviously, like there's some questions where even if he knows the answer is a certain thing. He can't like, for example, if Dabel were to say, yes, I've lost the locker room, right? Or yes, guys were quitting all over the field. Those are things where he's essentially signing his own pink slip. So it's not like you're expecting a coach to say, oh, yeah, like we have bad effort all over the place. Cause then the owner can, you know, well, I mean, you know, right? Like that's, so I understand and you don't expect people to say those types of things. But what bugs you is when he says we had a good week of practice. That is a really bothersome comment after games like these. You can't say that. You can't say after your team looks like it doesn't practice. That you had a good week of practice. Nobody cares. Nobody cares. You don't get paid to have a good week of practice. You get paid to win games. And if you play poorly and you see guys not giving 100% in players or noting that and players are saying that you're playing soft as a team, then you're not practicing the right way or well enough. Jacob says, just out of curiosity, can the giant specifically not allow a reporter to interview coaches, players, et cetera, if the organization thinks they're not being fair or something like that. There have been instances where reporters have been banned or have their credentials revoked for severely breaking rules that are outlined clearly. Or like if you were to make something, you know, terribly and unfairly and unprofessionally personal and then that crosses the professional line and, you know, that that has happened before, but just for being critical. No, you can't prevent that. I mean, there are instances where people say no comment. You know, there are rules in place that require players and coaches and assistant coaches and coordinators for different, you know, very, for different timelines to have to talk. A certain amount of times, whether it's players during the week or players at the game or the coach how many times during the week so those things are required and like, for example, if there were a player who was refusing to talk weekend and week out. You know, they are required to be available. And so if they're not, and it gets to that point to a contentious point, a player can be reported to the league for that, for example. But yeah, you know, you do have instances of that but really you're not going to be able to, a reporter is not going to be eliminated from a locker room or from covering a team without, without calls. Elias, what's going on? Thank you so much for the Super Chat. Elias says, Pat, do you think Brandon Brown stays if Joe gets canned? What are players thoughts on him and would Mara let him run this and take Shador Sanders. Elias, I, I don't know if he would stay. He certainly a candidate Tuesday, given that young up in commerce, he's considered in the business. I don't know if he's general manager ready. I do think he's been party to a lot of their mistakes here. Not a fan. So I would, I would personally not do that. Like retain him if Shane were canned, if and when Shane was canned. You know, I think, I think the Giants need somebody with more experience and proof of substance is my take on that. You know, he's had a pretty high level position here could have could have had a stronger voice to stop some of the colossal mistakes they've made. And then quarterback will see. I mean, if they have, you know, obviously they need a quarterback would be Shador to really just say obviously they're doing their homework on that as they should and need to. Let's see. So before I get into the queue again, let me tell you what I think about the, you know, the headline I put on this was, you know, our Joe Shane's and Brian Gables jobs on the line in this game specifically. And I think the answer is yes. I think we are on firing watch. Obviously you guys know I thought we were on it, you know, basically at the start of the season, especially with how they started the year. And, you know, anticipating that with a start to that season, the heat would turn up immediately. And, you know, I think that there is a chance that if Thursday is embarrassing that there are firings right on on Friday. Maybe that would be the coach and then the general manager, we get fired at the end of the year that would be a possibility. Maybe John Marrow and Steve Tisch would still just drag it out and, you know, suffer the consequences of dysfunction for several more weeks before actually pulling the trigger there. But I'm just saying that I do think we're at the moment now and the point now where it's gotten embarrassing enough. The discourse has gotten to a certain level, you know, nationally, John Marrow is being taught to that you even saw on Monday night football, Joe Buck and Troy Aikman just steered into a tangent on how much sleep John Marrow has to be losing. And, you know, during watching Sayquan Barkley go off as an MVP candidate for his rival Philadelphia Eagles. Meanwhile, the guy, Daniel Jones that they signed in order to not sign and to tag and eventually let go sayquan Barkley was just shut down by the organization and released. So it turned from a decision of which one do we prefer to now they have neither. Maybe that question earlier, our first super chat question. The crazy part about the Daniel Jones decision, and I should have mentioned this in that answer but I'll tell you now, who asked me that question early on that was Chris, I believe no Daniel Daniel Hirsch. One crazy part about the Daniel Jones re-signing, and the sequan Barkley tag is that, to the best of my knowledge, the Giants initial plan, Joe Shane's initial plan the Giants initial plan, it was to sign sayquan and tag Daniel Jones. Then they couldn't get the deal done with sayquan because Shane only wanted to go to a certain level in paying sayquan. So then that got contentious, and Joe Shane and the Giants said, you know, this is your deadline to re-pulling this off the table. And once they got to that point, they did just that and they flipped, and they instead of signing sayquan and tagging Daniel for one season, they tagged sayquan and they signed Daniel to a massive contract. Now, how does that make any sense? Think about it this way. If you were a general manager of a team and you had a quarterback and a weapon running back there, and you were judged, you decided, based on your evaluation, that the quarterback wasn't worth a long term contract. He was worth a franchise tag, and probably more money than you wanted to pay on that one season, but you decided he wasn't worth a long term deal. He hadn't proven that yet, so you're going to tag him, and then you'll sign the weapon, right? Imagine how opposite the logic is for you to then do the other thing, to sign the quarterback to the long extension who you just decided you didn't want to give more than a year. And to give the running back, the weapon who turns out also is the most key leader on your team, the franchise tag, and then those negotiations get even more contentious, and then that results in him walking out the door going to your rival. And then the player that you initially had said wasn't good enough, who you then signed to a four-year $160 million extension anyway, because it didn't go the way that you envisioned with the other player. Now, you can't make him any better than you thought he was. Now you're releasing him, and now you don't have either player. Unbelievable. All right, let's see. Chronicle says Dexter really attacked y'all on the being soft thing today, poor Jordan Ron on. Now, I mean, I don't think that was an attack. I mean, I think that's a player trying. Listen, that's a hard conversation to have after that locker room disperses, and the team comes back on Monday and Tuesday, and you have the general manager and the coach and people telling players to stop saying things like that. And basically, this was interesting. John Runyon Jr. told us they had this big film session on Monday, grinding the tape of the game on Sunday. Then Mike McFadden revealed it wasn't really that long of a film session. We just watched a handful of clips where Gable was showing us plays where guys gave us a lot of effort. So there was a huge push internally from the leadership to, no, no, no, like we were trying hard. Guys were trying hard. You guys were wrong. You shouldn't have said that. And so Dexter Lawrence, who has been the face of the team and is as frustrated as anybody and also had a very poor game and was party to all the problems that the Giants team had in that game. Dexter Lawrence was so, you know, he can point the finger at himself first, and that's what he does, right? That's what he has to do. He's their best player, but he wasn't good enough, just like everybody else in that game. But Dexter is trying to stand up for the team, trying to put a better face on the way that they're talking about themselves and trying to get his team going. Now, you know, I prefer the Malik neighbors like this isn't good enough. We need to change and fix it now thing as far as leadership to the Dexter Lawrence like, Hey, the media made something up or misconstrued what we said, you know, I prefer the one to the other. But, you know, I don't really think that's an attack as much as it's just everybody's on edge right now, Chronicles. Savage Steve says, I feel like I'm watching a movie that I've done seen a thousand times. I love to watch something new and different. No doubt, Steve. No doubt. Yeah, I got an email from a fan the other day that said, Pat, are you tired of writing the same story? You know, I guess the guy meant, you know, the tone of my coverage or whatever. I said, yes, I am tired of watching losing football all the time and watching regimes change and turn over and people leave. I mean, especially I've said this before, but as a reporter, it gets really tiresome, establishing relationships and connections and, you know, getting closer to people, you know, making, making friends eventually once you know people for long enough like Benny Fowler, who I do the podcast with now, you know, Super Bowl champion former Denver Bronco was on the Giants and met him when he was with the Giants and we're coworkers now, but like we're good friends, you know. And so you just hate seeing people get shown the door all the time. So the turnover, the losing, like winning, winning will help everybody. I can't, I can't wait. Ken says, I fully expect Thursday to be ugly beyond belief and something stable cannot survive. I agree. Cameron says this team is obviously losing on purpose. Shador Sanders is their top draft prospect. Why so much outrage. Cameron, the scary thing is I don't think they are losing on purpose. That's what's scary because that John, I've said this before, and you know, I wrote on Sunday, if this isn't tanking, it sure looks like it. But that's because that's what it is. Like, how could you couldn't be worse if you were tanking than what the Giants are. So it's fair to say, is that what they're doing, right, Cameron? But I promise you, like for Joe Shane and Ryan Dabel, they can't tank and save their jobs. You can't, they can't do that, you know. I, you know, I think 2022, they definitely welcomed a higher pick than they ended up getting, right? They won more games than they expected. But to tank now at this point, I do think some of the decisions they made have been ridiculous and have made the team worse. And I think it was fair to. It was fair, especially when they jumped over Drew Locke to Tommy DeVito, it was fair to wonder, like, oh, wait, they are really trying to win and asking that question. And then Dabel said, yeah, we thought we were, we think we're going to light a spark. We think he's going to spark us like he did the last time. So, you know, I mean, you know, that's where we're at. Solving says, thanks for asking Dabel serious and tough questions. Does he seem content and unbothered? Seems like a guy that knows his job is safe, no matter what. No, I view him more as somebody who seems like, you know, he knows the end's coming. He's just trying to not accelerate it by, by flying off the handle. That's how I view it. Was a little bit more tense today than he has been. Jacob says, Pat, is it me or do Shane and Dabel not like you because they know you won't bullshit. That's funny. I can't speak for how they feel about me personally. I do think that they prefer people who cover them to be friendly and not press them and not question them. I think there's a lot of people like that, but they especially are like that. And so I think when you do question them or you have information that they prefer that you don't have, they do, you know, tend to bristle at it. Yeah, I think it's just what I know how I see the game. If I don't know what I'm watching, I know who to ask to get me the answers to exactly what's going on on the field. I have sources in the building in the locker room. And I think that that can unnerve leadership, especially when they're losing. And especially when they are people who are so active themselves and trying to craft a narrative and a version of the truth through the media as well. Like I've told you guys that before, transparently, all of these NFL teams, the NFL itself, the NFL Players Association, all that. There's so much conversation about how many narratives the media is trying to create and generate and manufacture. The teams in the NFL are more active, you know, I'm just using them as an example in this business, right? But companies, corporations, like there's no bigger booming business right now than public relations, right? And so they are super active, the giants in pushing certain versions of the truth through media and friends of theirs and the media. So it's so disingenuous to say that, you know, reporters like me have an agenda and are, you know, driving at a version of the truth that isn't real or whatever when, you know, these teams and these leaders play the game as as actively as anybody. Steve says if Dave will get fired personally, I would love for able. I think he would set the tone for our defense. It would be the Giants defense you think of when you hear giants, but he is a defensive coach. Deepats as if Davido was started for the tank, doesn't that mean Dable Shane would need to have a guarantee for Mara for next season before Dable Joe consider tanking. Right. Yeah, and I think, I think really, you know, I think that they genuinely did start Tommy DeVito thinking he would be their best option, and it backfired in a major way. Now, who knows if it will look dramatically better withdrew in there. If he does end up starting in Dallas. We do know drew lock and win football games. We saw him last year with the Seahawks beat the Eagles in Seattle. You know, but this falls on Brian Dable too. You need to craft better game plans, call better plays, put your players in better positions, and the guys need to execute but, you know, that Brian Dable Shane Bowen versus Todd Bowens Liam cone in that game against the Buccaneers was not a fair fight complete outcoaching start to finish right and the players also just not playing up to any standard or level that is acceptable. And in this game, Mike McCarthy Mike Zimmer, Brian Dable Shane Bowen, hard to pick the Giants in that matchup on either side of the ball. At best, you have Dable close, you know, close to but not breaking even again Zimmer when you have McCarthy out scheming So you know, you know, Brian Dable has already played this Cowboys team this year with Daniel Jones a quarterback, and they didn't score a touchdown. They only scored 15 points on five field goals. I believe it was. Giants in jeopardy of not only going 0 and 8 in their last eight against the Cowboys and 0 and 6 with this regime against the Cowboys, but also in jeopardy of playing a full season against them without scoring a touchdown. D kit says Shane and Dable are not acting like a bunch of guys about to be fired. I wouldn't say that D kit I think I think they actually managed the optics in a big way. I think they're very active with that so I think Dable is trying to present a certain face and a certain even though, even though he's not answering a lot of questions and you know, I mean today he was today I'd practice he answered several questions. But even though a lot of his answers have been I respect that and we practice well and he's not answering a lot of questions. I think what he's what I've viewed it seems like he's just trying to stay calm and not react emotionally to anything. I mean, he's been on the road. I think, you know, from an optic standpoint, it's a look how hard we're working at next year's draft, but I wouldn't say they're working like guys who aren't about to be fired. I'd say they're just guys who are trying to do their jobs and not feed the and not fuel the flames and feed the fire. That's already as bad as it is. Jacob says, don't worry, Pat. I'm already subscribed. I know you are. I came back says Brandon Brown and Tim, Tim McDonald seem close. I mean, they, they, they work together and they're on the road all the time. Couldn't speak to how close they are personally. Godfrey says if Drew starts, we might have a chance. A tone says if Shane is on the hot seat like we fired wise, he's still scouting players on the road. Well, because, you know, he's still the Giants general manager and he's still going to do that job until they tell him otherwise. And, you know, it's possible that, like I said, it's possible that the Giants get embarrassed on Thursday and the coach could get fired, but the general manager ends up staying to the end of the season and they get fired. It's possible that the coach gets fired after an embarrassing loss and they don't fire the GM. It's possible that they don't fire either. I have been telling you guys, I think that both are going to get fired by the time this season is over. So whether it's during the season after the season, that's what I think is going to happen based on how bad it's getting and how bad it's gotten. That's how I view it from a standpoint of what I've seen, what I know and what I think is to come so far that has trailed or it's headed in that correct direction as I've predicted, but obviously like, you know, if the Giants get one win, right? You know, it's just going to happen over a crappy Cowboys team here. Does it matter much? You know, in the grand scheme? No, but it would at least for gable and chains purposes, possibly internally, even though it just be one game against the crappy team, but, you know, it could probably buy them some time or at least allow them to breathe and not have to go into, let's say week 17 and 18 on an eight game losing streak or nine game losing streak or whatever it is, you know what I mean. There's obviously avenues for this to transpire a different way or a more favorable way for them for the team to bounce back those kinds of things atone. But I don't think the fact that he's on the road scouting on the Giants down means that he's possible that he's definitely not getting fired, you know, I think that's just, that's his job right now and it's his job until it's not. So, I want to thank all of our sponsors right now before we get back into the queue. Thank you, first of all, to my bookie. 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And how are you good good to be here thanks for coming back fish. A to says have to fire Shable can't reward that freaking disaster with more time to cause even more damage get out. This says I'm thinking table won't last the season. I would wish us to say Juan, a good guy and star that escaped the mess and found a real team well said their wish. David says hey Pat happy Thanksgiving bro same to you David great to see you. hobby says I also like Ray Agnew Detroit's assistant GM he's helped turn the Lions into the best team in the NFC. He's scouted for 20 plus years and he played for the G men in the 90s so he's familiar with Mara and Tish. He's bringing the GM search right now need to get hobby hired as a consultant. I like that and you're thinking you're thinking correct. This episode is brought to you by progressive insurance, fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. 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We there about some Giants ties, but also kind of using a blueprint that's out there right now, who's succeeding in the modern NFL to try to take that blueprint and apply it here. And really you think about it, you know, prioritizing your offensive and defensive line, especially the offensive line, the running game, hard nose, football, discipline, motivation, right. Get back to the way that the Giants used to do things and that they have done things at their highest level. Patrick says this is brutal. Daniel says arriving now. Sorry I'm late. You think we fire Shane and or Debo if we lose on Thanksgiving. I think an embarrassing game, Daniel on Thanksgiving, like a repeat of Sunday or something close to it. Yes, I think we see firings. Listen, I want to be clear about this. No one is telling me at this moment. Hey, you know, we're going to fire the coach on Friday if if this is bad and no one's telling me at the moment. Hey, we're going to fire the GM on Friday. If the if the game is bad, but I can tell you that the pressure was already on them going into this season. And especially at the beginning of the season, the way that the season started at Owen to my question to Brian Debo after that Washington game about whether he was concerned about his job security. That the reason he reacted the way he did is that I struck a nerve because that is exactly where this season was if they went in the tank early and if they didn't dig themselves out of it and if they continued to snowball on themselves, which is exactly what's happening where we are. So think about how bad it felt and looked after that Washington game considering the way they opened against Minnesota. And then also their mismanagement of the kicking situation, the injuries in the game to lose to Washington and now look how much worse and further we've fallen from here. Yes, Daniel, I do think that's on the table. I think, you know, in the in the reporting and news business. This is the time when you end up writing the story of the fire. Fireings early, you know, it's called putting the story in the can. You know, it's like, hey, have this copy or this type and these and these stories ready in case this happens. That's a common thing that happens in the newspaper business. It's kind of like, let's get out in front of it. So when the news drops, we're not standing there with nothing ready to to run in the newspaper to give everybody the full context of how it went down. That is where we are at. Marshall says we can all hope. Candyman says super depressing, but I. Let's see, but I lived the same thing from 1966 to 1979. Take heart, folks. It will get better. Mara needs to accept help in finding the next George Young. Yeah, I think definitely the Giants need to, you know, do something different than what they've been doing. It's felt like, initially, obviously from their vantage point, they thought that's what they were doing by going to Joe Shane and Brian Dabel and not to their next in house version of Dave Gettleman. But obviously is taking them in the wrong direction. Steven says is the Giants hire Mike Rebel, Shane Bowen will stay as the coordinator. Giants D has been bad, especially against the run. That's a good point, Steven, and clearly Shane Bowen is not long for, you know, this job, right? And that's, you know, I think part of the reason he got this one is because, you know, so Rebel's out of the league right now. He'll be back next year. I think once Rebel's back, you probably end up seeing Bowen go wherever he goes, because that would actually be an argument for why Rebel doesn't end up here, right? Although I would say, Steven also, you know, when you talk to people about Tennessee's defense, even though Bowen was a defensive coordinator, it wasn't like he was a well-known name there really because everybody said, well, that, but that's Rebel's defense, you know, so Mike says, Pat, yes, Barkley should be here instead of Daniel Jones, but you know what our record was every year. He was here two and eight, except every, every year, except for one Joe and Brian's first year. That's fact that nobody like you ever mentions. Oh, no, Mike, I definitely would mention that for sure. I think that's a given that they weren't winning when he was here for the most part either. The one year they did win. He was the catalyst on their offense, for sure. And then, you know, even when he wasn't producing, he was forcing defenses to account for him and helping open other things up. And then I would also say the argument, I think against that is, you know, the Giants job, just like the Eagles job, just like any of these NFL teams jobs. Their job is to try to draft good players and also build good enough teams to accentuate those player strengths, right? And the Giants could have, if they picked better players and built better teams, put Saquon into position to do what he's doing now for the Eagles. So to say, well, he wouldn't have helped the Giants. Well, the Giants don't have as good of a roster as the Eagles because they haven't assembled as good of a roster. So, you know, it's not Saquon's fault that, now listen, I was critical of Saquon for different things here, right? You know, running out of bounds sometimes instead of taking on a hit at the end of runs, pass protection problems, some situational game management mistakes, that kind of stuff. But, you know, it's interesting, the one thing that is happening for him, that is a big time advantage for him and for the Eagles now, is that the Eagles offensive line is simply getting him through a hole into the second level with speed. And, you know, there was always criticism of Saquon here that he stutters step too much in the backfield. Maybe it was because there were no holes. Like, you watch him with Philadelphia, he's able to go downhill and hit the hole fast and get into space and take everybody's breath away and take the top off the defense and score 70 yard touchdowns left and right. It's because the team around him is a little is better, not a little better, it's way better. So, you know, it's not an argument to me to like, hey, well, we're still glad we don't have Barkley who might be the MVP of the league. It's like, well, no, it's, it's more of a reflection on you didn't build a good enough roster to accentuate, accent to accentuate and to prop up and to highlight and maximize the talents of a guy like Barkley. Elias says it's time to clean house Pat forget results you see disdain for general manager and coach in the eyes of the players. Yes, why come back and play well for table and Shane after what's happened they're not bought in. That's correct Elias they are not bought in no doubt. Intel says what if Joe Shane fires table and hires prime plus drafts his son. Oh boy. Yeah, that would. That would be interesting. You know, that would note like I say no boring days here. That would take that to the nth degree for sure. Safety Chris says can we just fire every I don't think that's happening by the way brand safety Chris says can we just fire everyone and start from scratch. I think that's what's going to happen. Chris is Pat please explain to younger Giants fans the history between Dion and the Giants they're not drafting should do or that has to be cleared up. Well Dion I believe wasn't the story that he refused to take the Giants, you know test for draft picks, and just like got up and walked out of the meeting and said like I'm not doing this. And, and just wasn't going to play the Giants game and that was that right. Pretty pretty sure that's kind of like the, the, the, the nut graph of the story. But yeah no I agree doesn't doesn't seem like the right match based on their history. Barbara says Pat when Shane goes that brown guy has to go with him he's part of the problem that's make a clean break. The 14th Giants says the New York media will take anything and run with it don't know what that's referring to. Barbara says neighbors should concentrate on catching passes he's not above criticism. Yeah no he's not he shouldn't be above criticism either. So I do think there are there's plenty there's plenty to criticize or say that neighbors can learn from in that situation or shouldn't have done. I think also his message that this is a disgusting product and it's not good enough is also you know the right one as well. Matt says they will give nothing in press conferences no he does not. Luan says giants should have more wins Luan Luan always the eternal optimist. Says giants lost games they should have won stupid mistakes not having a kicker and I don't want to quarterback in this draft I love table let him finish out his contract. You cannot win by firing coaches and letting players go the team has to stay together to win and get a Super Bowl. Luan thank you as always for jumping in and giving us your your take I love I always love your optimism and you breathe the you bring a breath of fresh air. Johnny says the worst thing America can do is let Shane pick the next quarterback. If the Giants have another terrible year this rookie QB will have a new GM and coach the following year talk about a clown show it really has turned into one here seriously. Barbara says I'm not sure the Giants should even waste a high pick on a quarterback in twenty five the twenty four quarterback class was stronger let's consider a free agent or a trade for a QB. Tim says hey Pat should the Giants selection door Sanders second overall from Colorado in the draft to replace Jones. Tim I think I personally think if one of these if one of these quarterbacks is somebody that you a judge is going to be the future of your franchise then you take them. Joe Shane and Brian Abel did show in this past draft though that if they don't believe the guys a franchise quarterback they're not going to take them. So it's so interesting about this and this is another reason why you just it's hard to trust their evaluations right. They just had a quarterback class where they passed on three guys JJ McCarthy bonyx and Michael Pennings Jr. who all went pretty soon after the Giants picked. So far the one of them bonyx is the leading candidate for offensive rookie of the year. Made made into that and help and help developed by Sean Payton and Brian Dable supposed to be the offensive coach who identifies and helps that young quarterback blossom so they passed on that guy didn't see it there. And to be honest I didn't see it in bonyx at the senior bowl either but I'm not getting paid $3 million or $5 million a year to be an expert on talent evaluation to draft for the Giants so but they had judged that nix wasn't good enough. They take McCarthy who Minnesota is very excited about despite the knee injury and the two surgeries and Michael Pennings Jr. will still wait and see. But you know the fact of the matter is Tim you can't just pick a quarterback to pick one you have to pick him because you believe he's worth that pick. So you know the Giants are in a position obviously where they desperately need a quarterback so you have to expect that they would take one. But we'll see I mean they're still still evaluating still still a while to go but clearly they don't have a quarterback and they need one desperately. So as it should or is it camward. You know do they do they not select one there do they trade do they trade down and take a different quarterback like a Quinn yours or a Jackson Dart. Who knows. Barbara says JC Barkley was here for six years and didn't produce like he is now. Plus he refused basically the same contract he got over there plus anyone would know he would go to Philly. Brand safety Chris says how come no one talks about sequins agent Ed Barry not giving Joe Shane a firm answer on average per year his agent tried to play the Giants. I think that Chris I think the way that that played out was the Giants agent knew that. Shane was not ultimately looking to prioritize Saquon like it was it was more of an idea of you go out and play the market and come back to us rather than we want you. And let's do this right and let's get it done. You know so that was how it started that was the tone that they set that the Giants set. So in the end when they talk some numbers at the very end before they say goodbye to each other it was a conversation and a negotiation but it was you know. It had already started on the wrong foot and both of them knew that they weren't going to get to the place that they needed to get to essentially. Like the agent knew the agent knew the money that Saquon could get on the market and the Giants thought Shane thought he wasn't going to get that level of money and be wasn't willing to pay it and very knew that. Johnny says yeah Shane came off as petty when he was talking to gore about Saquon and hard knocks imagine telling Frank Gore that Saquon had too many carries Shane is clueless talk about read the room dude. Fran is right. Gary Danielson was the quarterback that Lawrence Taylor intercepted in the fourth quarter in the Giants last Thanksgiving win 1982 13 to six win in Detroit over the lines and Lawrence. Lawrence Taylor intercepted Gary Danielson in the fourth quarter and returned it 97 yards for a touchdown. Barbara says I personally think Barkley has had Eagles blooded him for years he was a huge mistake on the Giants. Creative says bad decisions from the start this is what happens when you're cheap they should have paid Saquon and negotiated with Jones. Craig says every coach and GM Mara has brought in since Coughlin have failed none of them have ever been NFL head coaches or GM's prior. Mara is committing malpractice if he doesn't seek out Belichick given the keys. GM says Pat what are your thoughts on Trump's victory. Do you feel like that's impacted you and asking pissed off questions. I do not think Donald Trump's victory in the election has anything to do with the Giants at the moment. No, I don't. All mighty finesse says any chance we get Derek Henry or T Higgins in free agency. T Higgins is a guy the Giants have poked around on and been interested in before Derek Henry obviously everyone would want to be interested in him. I don't know about that. You know I think as long as Joe Shane is the general manager the answer to that would be no obviously. Barbara says drafting Barkley was a mistake as was drafting Daniel Jones no difference but they didn't produce anything no excuses or they didn't produce anything but excuses. Vinny says what's up pack great content thank you Vinny welcome welcome. Jacob says how does the daily news choose who is beat writer for what sport. Well all I can speak to Jacob is to how they chose me and basically I was working on the desk at the daily news and I was as an editor for the website. And then I started a fantasy football blog with James Parziali one of the other editors on the desk. And we were writing consistently on the blog on the website and I also was being sent out to be like a freelancer cover a Red Bulls game here or a practice there or whatever. Like a Yankees game there and you know Rangers here whatever and so once I proved that I could do those things they started to see my value as a writer and I also was very loud about my aspirations about what I wanted to do and what I was excited about and I was enthusiastic and I think I was hard working and genuine and I even wrote a bunch of headlines for the back page you know I got to a point where they trusted me enough where I could shout out my ideas and sometimes my ideas won out and they would use it on the New York Daily News back page which was really cool. Then they asked me to cover the Rangers when that opened and I took that opportunity and ran with it. And then I think I did good enough work and solid enough work where they decided when the Giants beat opened it was my choice to take it if I wanted it. And so I was aspiring to that I was excited about that. And I did and that's how I ended up there. I mean I think sometimes you end up covering things that are not. Let's see sometimes if you take the you know if you assign somebody to a job that they didn't foresee initially. And so for me like for example I grew up watching a lot of hockey and I liked hockey but I didn't go to the Daily News thinking like I hope the Rangers beat open that wasn't my aspiration there so you end up sometimes just receiving the opportunity that opens first so in that case if the Nets job had opened up first whatever you know that might have been the job I got or if the Mets or the Yankees had opened maybe I'd gotten or maybe if the Yankees had opened maybe they would have moved somebody more senior on the Rangers or a different sport to the Yankees and then move me to the Rangers or whatever it is. But bottom line is sometimes it's not about this person we know is good at hockey or this person we know aspires to this it's more like this is what the paper needs. And we need you as the writer reporter to be versatile and to you know do what the company needs. And so then that helps you kind of find your way and learn your way through the business. Chris I think I missed this last super chat sorry about that. I believe I did yeah he said would they fire a GM if I said I want family out of front office for me to take the job. Chris you want the GM job hey man we need somebody else in there fresh blood but that sounds good but I think I think what you're saying too is you're saying if it's between the current front office in general manager and replacing him with family like Tim McDonald you know which one is preference is preferable maybe I think is what you're saying. You know that that's an interesting question I think I think that of course Tim McDonald's been a part of their personnel decisions with Joe Shane at the helm here too for sure you saw him in the room when all of these decisions were made. You did hear him though saying the thing about sequan and like if we're getting rid of him what does our offense look like what is our identity we're losing our touchdowns all of those things so you know I think I think he has enough personnel chops that that would have to be a consideration. All right let's see. Creative says why do the Giants keep signing people that never have a chance to start. So many tools but don't know how to use them in 25 new tools are coming out let's get quality over quantity agree. You're just at a very base level you need to acquire and add players who you can trust to be adequate replacements if not starters right so you look at some of these NFL teams that they have good enough coaching and then listen certain teams battle injuries more than others giants being one of them usually. But guys when guys go down yes the player who comes in is not as accomplished or trusted or as good as the last guy who was in there. If you're coaching and a baseline level of competence in evaluations of what you need from those players from a quality and physical capability and tools standpoint. You can keep your plan team playing at a high level because your team building structure and philosophy and the way that you scout players and the traits that you try to acquire for corners versus receivers versus linebackers fit into a certain plan and structure. That's just aren't there at all. The Giants aren't there with you know they don't have the ability to pivot to make things look the same when their backups come in. They don't have the coaching to conceal their weaknesses that was one thing Martindale was really good at was concealing the Giants weaknesses personnel wise with scheme. You know he did it well in 2022 for a bit there at the beginning of the season and a couple late games with the running game and Daniel Jones mobility and that kind of thing but by and large has really struggled with it as well. A2 says where do you think Daniel Jones ends up Pat. He wants to play on a playoff team so safe to say the Jets are out of the running. I think it's the Vikings A2. You know I know I've seen people say that the Ravens are in consideration I know the Dolphins are somebody to keep an eye on as well. And yeah I guess you know the Niners Cowboys Eagles are all interesting I think my pick is the Vikings my pick is Minnesota. I don't know for sure that he's signing there but that's my pick. I think I think Minnesota A2 has the best combination for Daniel Jones in this moment of they need a backup. They have a starter with an injury history who got kind of banged up I think Donald still scheduled to play this next week but you know a starter injury history can be banged up whatever. They have their their playoff team so he's going to get to be in or you know at least be on the team for important games. And the number one thing is Kevin O'Connell the coach I want to go to and play for as a quarterback who's trying to kind of rehabilitate myself that that's what I would do. And Daniel is a smart Daniel smart enough to know that Jacob says Pat any idea who else we interviewed last GM cycle. Yeah Ryan polls who is the Chicago Bears general manager now Adam Peters who is now the general manager of the Washington commanders. So you know you see how the dominoes fall. You know with searches like that really really interesting how it all comes together and then where guys end up. I know they also interviewed. It was Ryan Cowden from the Titans who is now you know right hand man the Joe Shane. Monty Austin for it from the Tennessee Titans now with the Arizona Cardinals. Let's see. You have. Who else was it Adrian Wilson from the Cardinals and then ran Karthon of the 49ers who is now the Tennessee Titans general manager. Mike see says table is an offensive genius whose teams can score points. Mike. I didn't see I didn't see that one coming. You're funny that is funny. Exactly. Exactly. Well that the bottom line is. You know you're either you're either an offensive coach who knows how to draft a guy like bonus and turn him into the offensive rookie of the year you're not. You know. We need a disciplinarian coach says hobby that player friendly stuff doesn't work for New York we won with Parcels and Coughlin. Not with the type of handling or dable tough not soft leadership hobby turning in an MVP level performance as far as the quality of his comments in this chat. Johnny says I never understood the argument people have that we weren't winning with Saquon so it's finding was like well we're not winning with Dexter Andrew Thomas also should we let them go to makes no sense. Exactly Johnny silly. Hobby says I hope we can get back to winning so you can write a Super Bowl book and make some money Pat nobody wants to read books about losers that's right that's right from your lips to God's ears hobby. Thank you Aziki says that's a valid point Johnny should have kept McKinney and Leonard Williams to then if that's the case at some point you can you can't pay everybody. But I agree Barkley walking for nothing was terrible. Yeah you know as a Ziki you're right every situation every situation is different for sure. You can't just group them all into one thing necessarily but what you can group them all into is the Giants players frustrations that you know it's like we're getting rid of all of our best players what are we doing. Or we're getting rid of a lot of our good players and leaders what are we doing. And so it's no no coincidence and not a surprise that the team is worse. A2 says Luann is Dables YouTube account I love it. Hooks says they should have had that players only meeting weeks ago like I said happy to see some players with fire in their belly about losing I still would rather draft a quarterback this year like Ward or Sanders no one else. Mattins past says Michael Pentec's junior is a baller hooks says meaning no other quarterbacks on my list this year other than Shador and work. Old Point but Sequan didn't have the line with us that he has this season he's running through wide gaping holes with Philly exactly. Mike see says the head coaches we've brought in had good first years then garbage. Bill Parcells was terrible first year then Super Bowls. Right well right Mike that's that's a really good point what they need to do is properly evaluate their team. That's what they need to do ownership on down ownership general manager coach you need to properly evaluate your team. I think that speaks to like Joe Shane what he said at that press conference about how they basically you know over reacted to the success of 2022 and that it blinded them. To the fact that that they still had a long ways to go criminal criminal mistake you know I'm using that word obviously it's not literal but how could how could you be blinded by the success of a nine seven and one season. What are we talking about. Almighty says if we hire Mike Rebel King Henry would come here and both reunite. Interesting I like it. D kit says Shane's initial plan of 22 was scrapped after the season then he scrapped his 23 plan after the season. Now his most recent plan in 24 looks like it's going to be scrapped to just great. Yeah no the worst thing that they did as a regime. Was well obviously the Daniel Jones you know signing. And you know. Obviously signing Daniel Jones to that contract and letting say quan Barkley eventually go. That's the one that's going to get everybody fired. But the biggest mistake they made was generally coming out of the first season and thinking that they had figured it out and that they were really close. That was the biggest mistake they made because then it made them their misevaluation led to them doing the wrong things with their roster and that led their team down the wrong path and steer them in the wrong direction and help them regress. D kit well said Chris says hard knocks transcript okay so that's if I offered him today a three year deal at 12 and a half APY and 25 he'd be a giant say quan allowed his agent to screwed up the negotiation twice. Talk is cheap and he wanted the bag more than leaving a legacy. Well they they all they just had a market on the open market and they felt like the Giants should pay him what he felt like he was worth. And so there was a long history of negotiations there with the Giants were not going to the numbers that he was getting and wanted. Pat says I read an article in 2020 I think from a Browns reporter John Dorsey missed on a ton of picks he battled to get control from Andy Reid. Yeah no definitely not definitely not perfect but if you're looking for experience and and a no nonsense hard knows experience person that would be somebody but yeah just talking about candidates I'm not calling for them to hire him. Paul Dini says I think bringing in this episode is brought to you by progressive insurance fiscally responsible financial geniuses monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to progressive and save hundreds because progressive offers discounts for pain and full owning a home and more. Plus you can count on their great customer service to help you when you need it so your dollar goes a long way. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save on car insurance. Progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates potential savings will vary not available in all states or situations. The Belichick would help bring in a winning culture I think that would have to be their first call. I agree. George says good night Pat what are your sources telling you about Brian and Joe getting fired. Nobody telling me it's definitely coming right or it's definitely not coming but I can tell you that. That you know coming out of that Buccaneers lost the way the locker room acted I mean the dysfunction and the intensity the pressure and the stakes are at an all time high for the general manager and for the coach. This is a this is a worst case scenario for them in almost every way in the management of their team for tile sequins performing Xavier McKinney's performing. Looking at what the Giants have let go looking what they have still have poor effort on the field in key spots. And you know you know winless at home six straight losses no points in the first half of their last two games lowest scoring team in the NFL. It just you know. And on and on and on one thing I did want to share with you guys before we get out of here. So Baldini says draft Sanders and having Bill Belichick would be a hell of a storyline and put fans back in the seats. Almighty finesse says man I can't wait for April it will be another interesting off season that's for sure. One thing I did want to share with you guys the injury report that came out today so we find out final injury designations and game statuses tomorrow Wednesday on the 27th. Here on the 26th the Giants obviously they added Tommy DeVito which was a pretty wacky development considering he obviously should have been on Monday's injury report because he got pummeled in the game on Sunday. But whatever games are going on there he was limited. They called it a right forearm Tommy said that his entire body was sore and and said that his neck was stiff so obviously a lot going on there. Dexter Lawrence was upgraded to full Evan Neal was upgraded to limited it seems like seems like Neal will likely play Jermaine Alumina or I'm not confident will play. So you're probably looking at Chris Hubbard at left tackle and Evan Neal at right tackle. Armin Watts the defensive tackle with a shoulder didn't participate. Obviously didn't mention this yet Azizo Jalari went on injured reserve with the toe injury. Disappointing obviously that they had a market for him at the deadline. Didn't trade him didn't get anything for him he's a pending free agent and then he gets heard and now he's on IR out at least four games. They claimed Greg Dulcich a tight end from the Denver Broncos off of waivers that is a position man. I know tight ends not like the premium position but talk about a position Joe Shane just can't figure out. I mean he spent a fourth round pick on Daniel Bellinger he spent a third round pick in the trade for Darren Waller. He restructured and gave more money to Darren Waller. He spent a fourth round pick on Theo Johnson. Now we're claiming Greg Dulcich former draft pick mid round pick of the Broncos. I mean one of these days going to get it right. I do like Chris man hurts as a guy run blocker and who can be a red zone threat and he's a leader as well. But just can't seem to kind of pop on that position. Otherwise with the Giants McFadden new bin Johnson Davidson banks all limited. And you know no projections toward not playing for those guys from what we understand but we'll wait and see the statuses on Wednesday. Cowboys interestingly Trayvon Diggs the corner was downgraded to did not participate today from limited on Monday with a groin and a knee. So that's noteworthy obviously because Malik neighbors had a really tough time with him in their first matchup. So that would obviously be interesting if he couldn't go. CD lambs going to play but was limited with a back and a foot was talking today about how he was banged up. And then looks like they're banged up at line back or two we got Eric Kendrick's with a groin and a shoulder did not participate. Zach Martin their starting guard ankle and shoulder Nick vigil with a foot. Dallas obviously played a lot better against Washington last week and has you know significantly more talent when it comes to just the pure roster compared to the Giants have already beaten them once this season. So we'll see where that goes but that is your injury report for the game. As we sit here on Tuesday we'll see what the final designations are on Wednesday going into Thanksgiving days game. Alright to round us out here. Let's see we got finesse as are the Browns going to fire Stafansky and promote variable as head coach don't know about that we'll see. It is warm over there though the Browns did just get a big win over the Pittsburgh Steelers and why because in part they signed a good backup quarterback who they trust and gave the ball to when it was time in Jamis Winston, a guy that the Giants could have had. All mighty says it's either Belichick or a variable D kit says so Pat map things out that need to happen in order for our beloved Giants to return to respectability. I would like to hear just how daunting a task it is if you don't mind. You got a ticket so I would say the most daunting so one second need a sip of water first before I get into it's a long explanation. So, to return to respectability, I think what the Giants need to do first is they need a new general manager with some personnel chops who's going to pick better players that's first. I think the second thing they need is a coach who's going to hold players accountable and, and between the coach holding players accountable and the general manager selecting the right types of players and people for the team. I think they need to build back up the way the locker room. Who are the locker room leaders who is the leadership who sets an example of what it means to be a giant I think they need to get back to that formula I think there are players prominent players in this locker room now who, even if they have some talent players and people in the locker room in the right direction. And I think it's a weak locker room mentally in part because of that. I think that, you know, what I would be looking for especially would be a way to prioritize consistently the offensive and defensive lines I know we talk about that all the time. But I really think and I'm, listen, I'm not saying go pay a say, the next sequo embarkly and spend a gazillion dollars on a running guy it's not what I'm saying necessarily. But I feel like it's such bad timing that it was like Joe Shane took a stand on positional value just as around him the NFL is going back to the run game, you know, and I think if the Giants lean into who they've been and what their true identity is, which is running the ball and playing with your defense and obvious we all listen, we all know D kit, they need to hit on a big time quarterback get a star quarterback right, and you want to be able to throw the ball around the yard and all that. But what I'm saying is the Giants formula of run the ball play strong defense, you know, play with attitude play with effort, be hard to play against teams don't look forward to playing you right like those kind of things. I think this is an advantageous time for the Giants to just get back to what their blueprint has always been, you know, but like going into this year without depth on their interior defensive line without addressing that huge mistake. Going into this year with an offensive line where they desperately tried to patchwork it, and they still just don't have required depth or sufficient talent at certain key spots. Like you're setting up your team to fail, and it's just regime upon regime upon regime that keeps getting this stuff wrong. You know, to me, D kit, if they were able to get good leaders, if they were able to return accountability to the building, and if they were able to fix the lines. Look at Detroit, how their line is built, their team is built from the inside out, and with a general manager who has, you know, made the most out of high picks, and good assets. And, you know, you got pen a soul fell into his lap right that you take your mere Gibbs, you know, those kind of things they get to trade going for Jared Goff trading Matt Stafford out of there obviously a unique situation. But they just have, they just have high end talent and they have lines that beat you up that physically impose on you, and they have a motivator coach who all the players would give their right arm to play for. You know, not an overly complicated formula there, right? Maybe that's what I'm saying. Go, go do what the lines did at this point. Hook says look, look back at Sequan's draft, the next best option a quarterback was Darnold, Josh Allen, then Lamar Jackson, we see how Darnold did it jets, I hope for Lamar, but we drafted law letter, ouch. Almighty says can't forget Julian love when it comes to other giants succeeding and who were led out of here with the leadership yes Julian was a big part of that as well. Evan says there is clear divide in the locker room based on what some players have said is the locker room starting to fall apart can be able to save the season in any way. I don't think he can save the season. Yeah, I think, I think the divide on in the locker room and on the team is there's certain players just starting to say, listen, like not everybody's pulling in the same direction and there's only so much we can tell certain guys. And when players say that, you know, it's, it's all part of losing and frustrations and even if it's not finger pointing in certain issues in certain situations, it's definitely just frustrations coming out in different ways that they know they can't get it done. That's what it is. And yes, there are some players on the field who don't get it done more than others, but to me, I think all the players know deep down that they're all responsible for it. And is there a divide in the locker room. There's definitely certain players who are more targeted when it comes to, you know, frustration than others. And there's certain different messages coming from different guys, but I think, I think really what I see is some of the veterans like especially like a Dexter almost comes off like a guy who, you know, is insulted that he's connected to a product like this. But to me, he's, you know, in the game against the Buccaneers, at least he was a part of it. So you have to kind of suck it up, take a deep breath and you know what I think though Evan, I think they're fatalistic right now like I think they know, I think they know where what this is, that it's not getting better. And I think that's just, it's frustration. And no, I don't think there's anything Gable can do about it. No other quarterback available to us amounted to anything in the league says hooks. Almighty says that would be crazy if we got Aaron Rodgers and Belichick. Yeah, I don't think so. Mara has to at the very least make a call to Belichick says Kevin Yes, agree. D kit says I completely agree with your assessment Pat let me recap new GM new coach new players. Real leaders quality trench play. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's where I would start. Get me new management and coaches, James and Shador and let it ride. He says, Ryan says good coaches are good leaders and build a winning culture. The Lions were horrible for two years, but Dan Campbell would say we're going to keep working. Yep. Yep. Exactly. Exactly. But they were tough and they didn't get rid of their tough and good players right. That that's something that really stuck out to me. You don't get rid of your good and tough players. You know, guys like John Feliciano Nick Gates. You know, even remember Richie James like he was kind of like a guy who just did what he was told and played a role like they just had so they just had so many guys who were key pieces of the way they were made up. And yeah, it's a shame. Hook says thanks for your time and insight, but thank you hooks, rubs and spices for being here and thanks for participating and thanks for supporting guys remember. We are always live here with talking ball with Pat Leonard during the week at least once and after every Giants game. So I look forward to seeing you at talking ball post game live on Thanksgiving day. From AT&T Stadium in Dallas. So after the Giants Cowboys game, I will be live on YouTube. The channel is PL on NFL. Subscribe now. Make sure your notifications are on. So even if you forget, it'll pop up on your phone, pop up on your computer, pop up on your television and tell you that I am live from Dallas talking about your Giants after I watch that game live after I go into the Giants locker room. And after I talk to Brian Dable and the players. Thank you to all the people who purchase super chats. Thank you for supporting all of our sponsors. Please remember to support our sponsors. 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Thank you to everybody who was here. Thank you to everyone who supported, especially the super chatters Chris Spires weighed in with several Daniel Hirsch Elias as well. You guys really brought it hobby had some really great comments about general manager candidates and the way he wants to see the team built D kit rounded it out by getting me talking about the blueprint for the way the giants should go from here and how they can turn it around and reinvigorate their organization and their tradition. You know what's interesting. We've forgotten about this, but the giants are in their hundredth season they're at centennial season. That's something they haven't talked about a lot anymore. That's something we haven't heard as much, but man oh man how embarrassing that is that the giants are in there at centennial season. And this is how it's turning out. Oh and seven in their last seven against the Dallas Cowboys one and 14 in their last 15 oh and five under Brian Dable and Joe Shane out scored 160 to 68 in those games they'll try to turn it around on Thanksgiving day against Cooper rush Mike McCarthy. Micah Parsons and the Dallas Cowboys but something interesting to watch Micah Parsons has been piling on on the saquon Barkley. Social media kind of giants rubbing in their faces. He's screaming out on Twitter after saquon went off for over 300 yards against the Rams, you know that the Giants let him go for nothing can you believe that. Micah Parsons saquon Barkley are friendly Parsons undoubtedly in no uncertain terms is looking to come out and dominate Thanksgiving and try to embarrass the Giants for himself. They passed on him in the draft for saquon Barkley, his friend, and to continue kind of like Baker Mayfield did to show up a Giants team that right now is on the ropes to say the list. I do think there's a chance that by the time we get to next Monday if not sooner that the Giants have fired somebody prominent in the organization. If drew lock plays, who knows that's a wild card, obviously Malik neighbors talking to Brian Dable and Joe Shane having so little targets early in these games you have to imagine that the game plan is going to be something more competent. As it relates to trying to get him involved and trying to get him to ignite the offense and have the Giants in the game before it's too late because neighbors made a good point he basically said, you know, I'm trying to get involved early to help change the game when you get me involved later is like my body's not activated I don't feel the same way it's hard to just jump in and turn it on and ignite the offense in the game when we're down we're not scoring the first half. That's a crazy stat to leave you with. In the first quarter of the Giants last five games, Malik neighbors has one catch for 13 yards on four targets. Let me say that again. Five games the Giants have played their last five games in those five games total neighbors has one catch in the first quarter of those five games for 13 yards on four targets. That can't happen. That's the reason he was frustrated and pissed off. They can't score. They can't win. They need to turn it around now. And where we stand now is that we're looking at a lively and an explosive. And I hope as you're enjoying your pumpkin pie or your pecan pie or your second helping of Turkey. Those seconds all they always hit right at the Thanksgiving table man those those leftovers, right the seconds going back for more. I hope whenever you're enjoying those things. This is making me hungry talking about it by the way. I hope you will check out talking ball post game live with Pat Leonard after the Giants in the Cowboys play flying all the way down there leaving my family to go cover the Giants and bring you the most up to date news information breaking news information injury info updates on the team on the front office on the coaches on the game plans and to give you my unique analysis insight and my original takes on where the team is and where it's going to go from here. See you there post game live Thursday Thanksgiving day from Arlington Texas. Take care and thank you for being here and happy Thanksgiving to you and yours. If you like the show, please take a moment to rate review and subscribe. It really does help the show to grow. Thank you for listening. [BLANK_AUDIO]