Ooh. This is a dissident media production. Dissident media.net. DJ G. J. Spinning like a compass, arcade, junior, wow, racing up the rumpus! Please check your dirty lens, ain't acting light! Rise in the air, Ferguson, mid-flight! I'm sorry! (crickets chirping) (crickets chirping) (crickets chirping) You really hate me that bad! Conservatives have been disgusting for years, which is why I don't give a fuck about anybody that winds up at any of these rallies and gets shot or whatever the fuck. The entire world would be better off if these people were permanently removed from these platforms. Like there is no downside and only upside to see people like Candace Owens, Tucker Carlson, Tim Poole, never be allowed to publicly broadcast their opinions ever again. It's... Trump's election is going to be the biggest fuck you ever recorded in human history. And it will feel good. (dramatic music) (dramatic music) All I ask is... If we have to give these bastards our lives... We give them hell before we die! (crickets chirping) The tragedy of our day is the climate of fear between Liz. (crickets chirping) One thing about the Salomon Brothers building collapsing... (crickets chirping) (crickets chirping) (crickets chirping) (crickets chirping) I do not have sexual relations with everyone. (crickets chirping) (crickets chirping) (crickets chirping) (crickets chirping) (crickets chirping) (crickets chirping) (crickets chirping) (crickets chirping) (crickets chirping) Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the least comfortable show on the web. It is the system's down-or-attack about things that gets here, sees politics, the religions, and all the things. All the things. Maybe we'll get into a little bit of religion today. I don't know, we will, but perhaps our guest will get us back to our roots a little bit on that part. I am joined, as always, by the one, the only, the whys, the great Mr. Dave Casey. Dave, how are you doing, sir? I'm doing really great, man. Could to be with you. Yes, always a pleasure. Anything new in the great state of Delaware? The hive of scum and villainy? You know, this place is awful, but yeah, I just wanted to say that I got a new job and it is doing some really cool stuff within the Liberty space and I'm not going to give too many details on it, but I just want to say that I feel like I fucking made it. You got to be able to puke around here, and I'm homing it up all over the place and yeah, I just wanted to say that. I started a new path last week, and I'm just getting started on it, but so far, so good, dude. I'm really, really excited. I'm really excited for you. I know what it is, and it sounds like a great fit for you. And, you know, that might be why we have to do nighttime, but, you know, that's prime time. So, you know, onward and upward, and we're just jumping into fighting the big dogs, like the Tim pools of the world and whatnot. But before we go any further, I got to remind you guys of my very favorite sponsor, which is you guys in the Downers Club. People like Quinover, Guild, Decate, John Winchester, Bob, Seifert, Autumn, Orange, something, Carolina, Abrogate, D's, Maxwell, Brian, Zinger, J.C., Justin, Denise, Joey, Donald, Leah, Osmotaz, Brake, something, Hufflelump, Vanzot, Jack, Casey, Craig, Decost, Ryan Brown, something is gay. I don't remember the name. If you want to get your name on that list, and have it read incorrectly, some day, go on over to patreon.com/TheSystemIsDown. We'll get more weird, more offensive, more content. Regular, semi-regular, regular-ish, irregular needs a little bit more fiber in its diet content, perhaps, but maybe in the new year. Patreon.com/TheSystemIsDown, if you like what you hear and you want to hear more, then go do it right now. Right now. You also get ad-free versions, which, you know, that might be more valuable once we have more ads to cut out, but whatever. Hey, we're going back over here. Thank you. Go join the Downers Club. Holiday season is holiday season. Thanksgiving is coming. Thanksgiving isn't, like, what, two days, Dave? I'm pretty sure we still celebrate it in two days from now. Yeah. You doing anything? You got any big plans for Turkey Day? Dude, this is going to be a really small one. Usually we get, I'm really lucky. My parents are divorced, but the step-parents, I'm lucky. My parents are divorced. No, but they have since married and everybody gets along and we usually have a big meal. No, this year, everybody's kind of doing their own thing. People are on vacation and doing other stuff, so it'll be me, my girl, and her mom. Yeah. That's pretty much it. Nice. You making a turkey? I am not making a turkey. I'll probably be assisting and doing the dishes, but, no, I'm not cooking. You don't want me to go. Okay. Didn't you run a restaurant at one point? Yeah, but first of all, that's... Why didn't it work out, Dave? Why didn't it work out? My change happened because my waffle house fucking failed. Thanks for bringing that up, bro. You're welcome. You're welcome. No, that was not the path, but it did lead me to this, so it's kind of, you know, a thing is not beautiful because it lasts. But no, I'm no chef, bro. I was faking until I made it doing that entire thing. I can make waffles. I had your food. That's good. Listen, bro. When you go to the holiday inn and you throw some waffle batter in there and you're not a chef, but, you know, you're making food. So that's kind of what I was doing. Absolutely. Speaking of people who don't do their job very well. I don't know. I'm just looking for a transition here. Sure. Jumping into the news. Into the news. Dave, last week we talked about this new Jaguar ad where the mannequin humans, the very plastic gender ambiguous people were the only thing in the Jaguar ad. There was no car. There was just trans people in Iraq. Do you remember this ad, Dave? Sure do. Luckily slipped from your memory. Okay. Well, we've got, I want to keep an eye on Jaguar because they're, we saw their cryptic messages and everything last week. They're keeping at it. They're putting out some new stuff, some new cryptic messages. And we're going to keep up to date as the mystery and the glory unfolds of the mystery. Alright, so that is actually not the latest Jaguar ad. That is a parody and keep up the great work internet and keep them, keep them ashamed of what they've done to Jaguar. But we are going to check in because Jaguar has posted some new cryptic images. This is leap forward copy nothing. It is an image of the, you know, the old Jaguar logo and it's like, looks like it's on some sort of side panel with, with grids over it. And then there's this image of just some sort of grid looking futuristic thing. Dave, are you excited as I am about this grid looking AI generated image of some sort of coat hanger apparatus? This does not look for me. I'm not excited. Oh. Well, shit. I know. Well, we checked in. You're not knocking out of the park. We checked in with Jaguar. One more video I want to share on this topic. This is how the Jaguar video should have ended. Now, if that is the follow up, if they're like launch on whatever it is December 2nd, if that ends up being the follow up, just these people getting mauled by a Jaguar and like, no, we got, we're bringing in cars again to Jaguar. We tried that, we gave it a little bit of a test run, if you will, and people didn't like it. Not a whole lot new going on here, Dave. Are you excited about the Jaguar shit? I'm excited about the people of the internet not being excited about Jaguar and being able to like, show Jaguar and everybody else how retarded that is. Excited for the get won't go broken real time once more. It keeps happening a lot more lately. I think there's something about Fox saying that they were pulling back on their DEI strategies and all that stuff. I think maybe Disney? I could be speaking too soon for Disney. Not too many high hopes there. But it seems to not be working. Jaguar is still going for it and we'll see if it pays off. But in completely unrelated news, but just something to kill time before our guest, I should have probably mentioned Jacob Winograd from biblical anarchy is supposed to be joining us right around 530 central standard times. So he should be here in about 15 minutes and we were going to get some of his thoughts, talk about some libertarian crap that has gone down over the last couple of days. But until then, we're just filling time and killing time. So the climate conference, the UN climate conference has been kicking off. They're not kicking off yet. But for the first time ever, this is from NPR.org. For the first time ever, the Taliban reps were invited to the big UN climate conference. The Taliban is now on Greta Thunberg's team and the UN, because, you know, the Afghanistan war was so successful that they're not only in charge, but they're in charge just enough to, like just as much as the United States being invited to things as though they're world leaders. Does this fill you with hope for the future of climate change, Dave, and the scare of it? Well, I mean, what are the Taliban doing to increase climate change? They don't have, well, they're flying around all those helicopters. We left them and, you know, firing them all together. Since we're giving you all these, you know, carbon output machinery here, yeah, you're going to need to learn all about climate change from Taliban. That's fantastic. Not only do they have something to learn, but they have something to bring to the table. Like they were invited as though they are influencers to some degree, and they're there to, you know, represent Afghanistan and the Taliban, and they're forward-thinking plants. And I think this is like, you know, like less than a week after they announced that, it was like women have no right to vote or no rights in society or anything. And then the UN's like, you want to come talk to us about climate change? It's like, all right. You know the panel about something's right. I got some things right. That's awesome. I love it. Yeah, this says, for the first time since the Taliban takeover in 2021, a delegation from Afghanistan has been invited to the United Nations Signature Climate Conference, the 29th Conference of Parties. Following the UN protocol, this year's host nation, Azerbaijan, issued the invite. It's not a full-blown invitation because the UN does not recognize the Taliban as the official government of Afghanistan due to its repressive policies of the Afghan delegates. Members of the National Environmental Protection Agency cannot participate in decision-making events. Nonetheless, the Taliban has said it is eager to participate. Quote, "The Afghan delegation," I don't know. What's an Afghan me? What you were doing was probably pretty Indian, but different stores, same groceries. Sure. Yeah. I mean, basically the same. The Afghan delegation will discuss strengthening international cooperation in the field of environmental protection and climate change stated a Taliban press release prior to the UN event. Well, I'm hopeful. What do you think, Dave? I think it's funny that the UN won't recognize them. It's like, I would be like, if I was the Taliban, I'd be like, "Motherfucker, we were here in 2001. You went through that whole shit for two decades. Now we still here, and you won't -- what's it going to take? What's it going to -- you want to do another 20-year terror war? Come on. Recognize, motherfucker. They do, though. They do. They do. These are people do at least. Now, let's see. What else do we got here? In New York. Let's go over to New York here, because Mayor Adams has news. From Fox News. So, you know, it's legit. Mayor Adams calls for the involuntary removal of people who are a danger to others on the streets. And this is news. The involuntary removal of people who are a danger to others on the streets. On the streets. He had to call for this as the mayor. That's how bad things have gotten in New York that he has to say it. He has to say, "Hey, if you're violent and hurting people, we're going to arrest you." And that made the headlines, because that's a new thing in New York. At least in the past ten years or so. It's a new thing for -- you have to -- as the mayor, you have to say it out loud. If you want people to actually -- if you want the police to stop people from being violent on the street, you have to specifically say it. Otherwise, it's not going to happen. Any thoughts, Dave? Yeah, we've got to make police police again. I don't know. Yeah, that sounds like something that you shouldn't have to mention. But maybe after the past couple of years, yeah, we're bringing it back. Remember when we used to take care of crime on the streets? Everyone violence was bad, and it got arrested for it. Except, you know, on times that weren't January 6th. Now, let's see. I did want to talk before Jacob comes in here. I want to get into this Neil deGrasse Tyson stuff a little bit. Have you seen these clips going around of Neil deGrasse Tyson? Big-brained astrophysicist going on Bill Maher's show? I did see that. Yeah. At least one clip, yeah. And once again, Bill Maher is, you know, he's being based finally, finally on something. Bill Maher's great. Once he finally comes around and he realizes that he was full of shit. Once he realizes the things -- once it's safe, he's like, "All right, I'm going for it." And to his credit, he does dig in on Neil deGrasse Tyson, who famously was a voice actor in one of the Ice Age movies. Unless you doubt his credibility as a scientist. But starting off here, the first one is -- let's see. This is on gender science in such things that, you know, scientists know all about. Here is that. Scientific America. Scientific America. Uh-huh. The magazine. I remember when it was around when I was with it. Yeah. Okay. Well, their editor had to quit. You saw this. Yeah, I heard about it because she expressed some opinions. Right. Yeah. Okay. Sure. But it sure didn't sound scientific. It didn't sound like the person I would want to be running Scientific American. Okay. It was a rant on Twitter. Okay. I could read it to you. It's really ugly. You know. I apologize to younger voters that my Gen X is so full of fucking fascists. Okay. Okay. I'm not -- Okay. She expressed some opinions. No. You know. She's normal, science-y stuff like that. I'm not gasket right there. I'm not for canceling anybody on either side. Yeah. So I -- Mm-hmm. But here's what I think is the scandal. Well. This is in Scientific American. Yeah. Less than a year ago. Uh-huh. Inequity between male and female athletes is the result not of inherent biological differences between the sexes, but of biases and how they are treated in sports. That's nuts and ensuring scientific and it's in Scientific American. And that's why the Democrats lost the election. It's true. And that's why the Democrats lost the election, which Neil deGrasse Tyson thinks is absolutely fucking hilarious, that you could possibly come to that conclusion. So, what Bill -- what's his name? Bill Maher? Yeah. I want to say Bill Maher. What Bill Maher is saying is the absolute -- from Scientific American, from these scientific journalists, from Scientific America, from all these big brain guys like Neil deGrasse Tyson, like Fauci and all these people, the fact that it is so clearly not science which we're practicing, but it's actually ideological pseudoscience or, you know, cult religious -- shit. What he's saying is that is the reason, right there, between COVID and saying that there is zero physical -- physical, whatever, benefit to men in sports over women. I mean, of course, it is true that men have a biological advantage to, you know, being better than women in sports. But what Bill Maher's trying to say is the way that they have completely negated all of actual science, all of evidence, all of common logic that everybody knows, and even their scientific experts are going along with it, that is why you lost the election, which Neil deGrasse Tyson finds, hilarious. Dave, you have any thoughts before we go on? I do have to probably pause this a few times because HBO or whoever this is on will strike us. No, I was waiting for him to crack and disappoint me as per usual, and he did not let me down. Absolutely. He continues. Bill, every 20 minutes on your platform, you come up with another reason why the Democrats lost. You already have the answer. They lost the election. So anything you say is why they did it -- first of all, you don't watch this show, so you don't know. Oh, it's very funny. And it's okay, but you talk as if you do, and you fucking go, and that's okay. Just don't bullshit me. That's the one thing people can't ever do when your show is bullshit me. And that's fine. But I don't say that. I have very good reasons. But engage with the idea here, what I'm asking is, Scientific American is saying basically that the reason why an NBA, WNBA team can't beat the Lakers is because of societal bias. What you're saying is not -- Yes, it is only because all of society hates women that the WNBA is separate from the NBA, and that is the only reason why the WNBA would not be able to beat the Lakers. Scientific American says that, an editor for Scientific American says that, who no longer has the job. So don't indict a 170-year-old magazine, because somebody -- Okay, this is called science -- Somebody -- American. And they're printing something. Then enters the cesspool that is social media, and then participates in that exchange. So why can't you just say, "This is not scientific, and Scientific American should do better." Yeah. Well, does she still have her job? No. Not because of this. I said the scandal is not her tweet. This candle -- Okay, that was like a year ago. Was it? Which one was a year ago? I think a year ago women still couldn't beat men in basketball. Yeah. Yeah. And it wasn't because of society. You don't see a problem? I mean, long-distance swimming, women might actually have the advantage. You look into that. Yeah. People start to applaud. Yes. Wait. That's it. That may be long-distance swimming from the scientist may be possibly long-distance swimming period, but, you know, that's a dunk. And, you know, it's funny to see Bill Maher's audience taking a little bit longer than Bill Maher to come around on some of these things, because Bill Maher's been, you know, going with the flow for so long that some of his audience members are like, yeah, Neil deGrasse Tyson just dunked on him and then Bill Maher's like, but that wasn't why she got fired. And they're like, oh, oh, shit. And then he's like, well, some people -- or some long-distance swimmers are -- some of the best ones are women. And they're like, yeah, wait. That's pretty lame if that's -- if that's the extent of our scientific research to come to this conclusion. But, yeah. Let's finish it up. I'm guessing swimming. Yes. I've looked into it. Yeah. Well, I'm going to file you under part of the problem. Yeah. Absolutely. David got any thoughts on that one. We do have one more Neil deGrasse Tyson clip here that we'll get to you. I just -- yeah. I'll just point out what everybody probably obviously knows is that that is the hallmark of a shill and not anybody who is intellectually curious. And of all people that got -- oh, it comes in with his hands and talking about how the stars rock here and what a billion years ago. And you're so -- like, you play the role of this guy who just is just thirsty for information and knowledge. But he is actively, he is actively trying to just -- wouldn't you rather just tell quick jokes here on your joke show, joke man? Like it's just -- it's just pathetic and -- that's exactly what it is. Yeah, he sucks. Not that much different than Bill Nye the science guy or any of these TV people. He had a show, he had an adult show, so it's more esteemed. But we saw the same thing from Bill Nye once he started getting into the political stuff and had to delve deeper into the pseudoscience and had the -- the very -- I don't remember the name of the song. You remember his show on Netflix where he had the like gender dance or something? Like the cringiest shit imaginable. That's what this is starting to feel like. And it's -- you know, Neil deGrasse Tyson, somebody who's been a bit of a staple not in my life, but in like the zeitgeist for a lot of my adulthood. And I remember people once he started emerging from the shadows in Hollywood and all that. And some of my friends bring him up like you need to get into this guy, you need to look into this guy and now to see him just literally flailing on TV to like crippled by Bill Maher. Bill Maher who just like last year realized that COVID was bullshit. Just last year. Bill Maher is able to bring down this top scientist, Neil deGrasse Tyson. And on that note, here is the -- the literal flailing, like watch the body language first and foremost of Neil deGrasse Tyson trying to explain some COVID stuff. So that means we're incapable as a species of truly understanding risk that -- and this goes to like vaccines, okay? I don't want to like poke the bear here, but -- but what I'm saying is -- the bear believes in vaccines just being skeptical of all medical interventions as everyone should. Except -- no, not 100 medical interventions, you're not saying I need a second opinion. If you have tuberculosis, you don't need a second opinion. If you have -- Oh, it's not -- it's not close to 99 percent. It's not. It is not. If you break a femur, you don't get a second opinion on that. I agree. But that's not most things that happen to people. Lots of things that happen to people. And I'm thrilled that you don't ever have -- have this happen in your life, but -- and I hope you never do. Just watching his body language -- body language as he's just flailing, trying to think of anything. And he's like, no, you're being ridiculous. And Bill Maher touches him. He even pulls away and gets into -- like he turns it back to, oh, I'm just joking, just joking around here. But he is clearly visibly frustrated by the fact that he is being asked a very basic question about this, which, you know, why -- I mean, it will -- we will get into a bit of -- Bill Maher gets into a bit of like, why are you even qualified to speak on this as a guy who looks at stars? Why are you talking about health and stuff, but, I mean, quite frankly, though, why would you ask him then, Bill Maher, like, why are you asking him these questions? I'm glad he did because I want to -- I'm glad that we have his answers, but, yeah, why does this guy's opinion matter at all in this topic? I'll never -- have this happen in your life, but -- and I hope you never do. But trust me, most people at a certain point in their life will need a second opinion. The second opinion -- yes, but that's after you've been through '99, other -- I'm trying to put credit back to doctors where our life expectancy is three times what it was 150 years ago. And everyone before 150 years ago, they -- but lower than the rest are organic, and half of them died before they were 35. Science matters, of course. And also does. But sometimes you don't sound that way. That's what worries me. You're the guy -- you're the guy who doesn't understand why the NBA team can beat the Lakers. So I don't know. You're supposed to be -- you're supposed to be the scientist, and you couldn't even admit that. But as far as medicine goes, I could talk to you this about all day, but, again, we do have a party together. But, you know, this is not your field. You're not a doctor. Excuse me. Yeah, that's -- I'm a scientist, I'm a scientist. It matters. That's not a doctor. No, no. That's not a doctor. I'm a scientist. You know what? Probability statistics. When I get a goiter on Uranus, I'll call you. No. Don't call me. When it's time for six risks, that's something that comes out of the world of probability statistics, and scientists are trained in that. And so there's a documentary on PBS.org right now that talks about what it means to accept a risk, like in a vaccine, if you don't want to get a vaccine, that's like working on the baseball bat. That's fine. But if you hit someone with it, that's bad. If you -- there's a social contract to not infect other people. Look at that. Body language. Like, as he's not only saying just complete nonsense, just spewing shit, like, if you walk around with baseball bat, that's good. But if you hit people, that's bad. So COVID and vaccines, and like he's just flailing wildly. It's quite beautiful to watch, because he's seeing that he's not on the right side of any of this anymore, and there's nothing that he can do, because he is so bot and paid for that even Bill Maher makes him look like a shill. And it's great. Dave, you got any thoughts? Yeah, dude, I, you know, I wonder how much sexual blackmail they have on that guy. To be -- because he obviously loves being a celebrity. You can tell that that's his shit. His shit is not the stars and science and statistics that he could give a fuck. That's why he's so performative. Yeah. And you're right. He is just like Bill Nye the science guy for people a little bit older, maybe. But yeah, I don't know. If your friends were recommending that guy to you. They're not anymore. Okay. He was going to say. Not friends and not recommending. So, you know, it is -- Just terrible. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we do have a guest to bring on. So we are going to move on to some libertarian shit. But if you are, I don't know, working backstage on the Bill Maher set and you get punched in the face by Neil deGrasse Tyson who's flailing around so wildly because he's just frustrated and overwhelmed by the fact that he's been wrong about everything and he knew it. But he's being exposed for all of his lives. If you get hit in the face on the work site by Neil deGrasse Tyson, you should contact Lone Star Injury Attorneys. Have you or loved one been injured by some fucknuggets reckless driving, a tumble at your shitty job, or some other form of dumb shit outside of your control? Well, fear not because today's episode is sponsored by a lawyer. Lone Star Injury Attorneys is an award-winning personal injury law firm that achieves maximum results for its injured clients. Max the Axe is not just a lawyer, but a hardcore Mises caucus libertarian and also a big supporter of this show in all of our bullshit. Max is the best personal injury lawyer in Texas, but don't judge him by his occupation or location. Max is an avid defender of liberty and justice in whatever state you got fucked in. If you've been injured and you're ass needs saving, go with the pros at Lone Star Injury Attorneys. Visit LoneStar Injury Attorneys.com or Google Max the Axe. Consultations are free and you don't pay a single dime unless you win. Once again, go to LoneStar Injury Attorneys.com and get your ass covered. All right, ladies and gentlemen, it is that time we are going to talk about some nerd stuff. If you were here for normal news, I am sorry it's not one of those days. We're talking about libertarian shit and we're bringing on a guest. His name is Jacob Wintergred and he is here finally on this cowardice show from Biblical Anarchy. Jacob, welcome to the show. How are you, sir? You've been, you've been, you've been bugging me for a long time calling me a coward on the internet. How's it going, man? Oh, it's going great, man, glad to be here. I mean, listen, there are worse things to be called these days than a coward. I mean, that's a pretty, that's a pretty tame troll to be doing. I mean, honestly, I'm disappointed in myself that I couldn't think of a better game to be playing. I mean, the baseline is Nazi these days, so anything below that is kind of just like a fart in the wind. So calling me a coward is like, all right, cool. Yeah, except the ones in Ukraine, you can't call the, they're not Nazis, but the rest of us are. Well, I'm going to switch over to this screen here where you're not, but I'm going to add you into it just like this and I'm going to keep talking. So it's a completely seamless transition. Tell us, Jacob, first time on the show, who are you and what is it that you do around here? Yeah. Well, if you introduced me with that wonderful song, I'm Jacob Wintergred. I am the host of the biblical anarchy podcast, which is part of the Christians for Liberty Network over at the Libertarian Christian Institute. And so yeah, I pretty much, I mean, it's sort of self-explanatory. I make a lot of content about religion, about politics, current events, sort of making commentary from the Christian libertarian worldview. And I guess I've also been active in the Libertarian Party and the Mises caucus for a while now too. So bumped into you guys several times over the years. So yes, yes, you have. And finally, you're here. How does it feel? Um, I don't know, you know, it's disappointing when you go and see how the fuck it's made. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, yes, that seemed like a good plan to put that in there for some reason. Only gonna get so many more opportunities. That's right. No, give like the quick elevator pitch for biblical anarchy because these are two terms that are that are generally kept apart and anarchy is burning down your local Walgreens or Target and biblical is voting pro Israel all day long and waving the American flag. So do you want to give how these things work together in your brain? Yeah, I mean, I guess the elevator pitch would be two basic arguments. The first one, just being that you could just make the pitch for regular libertarian anarchy, the non-aggression principle, self-ownership. And you can not only demonstrate those things logically, you can demonstrate them using biblical principles. I mean, do not murder and do not steal, I would even argue like do not covet the commandments in the Bible pretty much affirm the idea of self-ownership and the non-aggression principle. So right there, I think you have a pretty strong case. And I also think that there are many stories within the text of scripture. Actually, the name of my podcast used to be the Daniel 3 podcast because that was my favorite such example. But there's many examples of God's people, whether they were the ancient Hebrews or the early church where they refused to submit or obey worldly authorities and declared that they would bow to no one except God or Christ in the case of the early church. And so I think that's the way I like to sell biblical anarchy the most to my Christian brothers and sisters is to say that if we're going to view Christ, I mean, you can't see it but I'm wearing a sweater that says no king but Christ. And I think that is the biblical worldview. And if we're going to view Christ as our king, there's also, I forget which psalm it is. I won't guess the number, there's one of the psalms, actually many of the psalms that declare the nations are nothing compared to the kingdom of heaven. And so these things will fade away but the kingdom of heaven, Christ's kingdom, that reigns eternally. And so we're ambassadors in this world from the Christian point of view. This isn't our home. And while we're here, we're to be living for his kingdom and no matter what eschatology you have, you believe that Christ wins at the end. And so really our job is to claim people and claim the nations for him. And so when you do that, you can't have any loyalty or allegiance to the kingdoms of this world, I would argue. And so that's the most succinct elevator pitch I can give you. I like it. I like it. And I'm wearing a frog and toad sweatshirt. It's completely unrelated to anything but I just like it so I wanted to share that with you all. Now, thank you for being here, Jacob. I would like to have you on at some point to dig more into like the eschatology and the theological stuff. But unfortunately, you are on the radar currently for much less interesting things, which is libertarians arguing with libertarians about libertarian shit. So that's what we're going to talk about today. And we'll have you back on probably 12 years from now when you bugged me enough times again. But I am glad you're finally here, man, because you've been, you did this, you co-hosted this spaces with Dave Smith the other night and I want to mostly talk about that. But leading up to that, I want to bring this up because Reason Magazine, we all know, love them. Oh, no. Jacob's not here. One second. Jacob is here. Okay. Reason Magazine posted the other day. We don't need RFK Jr. to make America healthy again. The federal government can't make the right health choices for you and your family. Only you can do that. Now, that sounds all good and well from, you know, most libertarians. I didn't know Chase Oliver joined Reason. Well, it's only a matter of time. I mean, it's basically the view of libertarianism. So he'll end up being a pundit there, perhaps. But yeah, it's just, it would be fine for any one of us to say something to like criticize RFK Jr. for, you know, not being libertarian enough on his, you know, health choices. But from Reason Magazine, I thought this was worth a mention because Reason Magazine, the people who were like all through COVID, here are like, they're top three reasons why social distancing is actually good for Liberty or your top 12 reasons why you should get vaccinated because Liberty. Um, I wanted to get you guys, both of you guys' thoughts on the latest, uh, from Reason here and whether you think, uh, it, we should be because RFK Jr. was a big topic of discussion on your spaces the other night, Jacob, and, um, I imagine he's going to be a lot of this topic. So is this enough for you to be convinced that he's evil? For Reason? Ha. Ah, boy. Um, you know, actually it's funny you bring up Reason talking about this because, uh, the, the only show at Reason, I actually care to watch, which is just asking questions with, uh, Liz Wolf and, and Zack, they, they, they just today actually did a live stream with, uh, Vinay Prasad, I think it's his name, um, and, and he's in the medical field and they were asking him about RFK and they actually came away with mostly a positive take, which I was surprised by saying like, yeah, he has some kooky takes and there's no way to know for sure, but we think that there are some positive things that he could actually end up doing, uh, if he gets confirmed. Um, so it's, it's funny, uh, that, that obviously that, that podcast is a minority over at Reason because they do tend to take the more, uh, blue-pilled, uh, allowable opinion take on such things and yeah, I don't know. I mean, I, this does tie into that space a lot because it doesn't seem to matter how much we sort of ad nauseum admit and like, I mean, even like while we were like people like Dave and myself were saying we're going to vote for Trump, we were doing so under the heavy pretext of, yeah, we know these guys are not only not libertarian, but they're, they're several steps removed from being libertarian. Yeah. However, it's just also true that they're, you know, more than a couple of standard deviations, uh, improved from the status quo. So we're just going to kind of take what we can get in this particular election cycle, all things being, uh, factored into that equation, but it like, it doesn't matter how much you say it, just like denouncing racism, just like denouncing, uh, you know, Hitler and, and every, you know, meme tweet that anyone ever made is hated. Yeah. It, it doesn't matter how many, how many times you denounce these things or clarify these things. People just come in like Kathy Newman and go, so what you're saying is, right? Okay. The libertarian. It's like what, whatever dude. Yeah. And not just Kathy Newman, a whole lot of libertarians are saying the same thing. Um, that was a big topic of discussion. Dave, uh, before we get into the actual conversation, what are your thoughts on reason magazine here and their, their scintillating review and take down of RFK Junior? I'm already triggered. Thank you for bringing reason up and Jacob. Thank you for being here. Man, haven't, uh, haven't, thank you for that yet. And I'm really glad you're here tonight, man. And not only because you had me on your show a few weeks back and I convinced you to vote for Donald Trump. So I want to talk to you about, if you're feeling guilty about that or you, uh, enjoying your purchase, we'll get into that, but, but also man, um, I'm glad you're here because speak of the devil and he appears. So this is kind of the heart of the blue pill reason there, what they do. Okay. Very basic libertarian argument that says like, Oh, in the free market, you should be able to choose whether you want GMOs or not. There's real food and there's GMOs you choose, right? That's not it, man. If you're like, think about how the devil would act for a second because, and this will make sense, right? To, I believe the government, the regime, if you want to call it that at some point, all food, all water, all necessities for life will be under lock and key, right? They all should not be able to sell or buy anything without the fucking mark, right? So get ready for the day when, you know, right now Nestle is taking, you know, all the fresh water from the Great Lakes and taking that right over to China because they don't have it and they're trading us for plastic bottles, right? We can't get fruit loops that are dyed with cranberry juice or beet juice like Canada does, right? If you want a fucking red fruit loop, just do it with some natural shit. My point being the blood of children is there is no free market of food. They're destroying the ecosystem to a point where all, you know, forget the bugs, you're just going to have lab grown everything or everything will be made by Pepsi, a Frito Lay and Pepsi, you know, salt, sugar, fat and chemical, salt, sugar, fat, you're not getting the building, the, you need to eat nature, man, and we're not getting that. This is the devil at work, fuck, reason magazine for go, oh, in the free market of things, you can have choice, real food or not, like, they are destroying that. So I'm glad you're here, dude. And yeah, fuck, reason magazine. Yeah, there's something really dumb about a lot of libertarians who make these sort of arguments that like, well, in a free market, you know, X should be allowed to happen. And it's like, well, yes, I, I understand libertarianism 101 as Dave likes to say. But what you don't understand is that, yeah, we don't live in a free market. And I don't understand the libertarian, listen, like, I have a little bit of sympathy for the libertarian purists because in my heart of hearts, and actually like my recent episode, I think I've made this same spiel of like, in my heart of hearts, when it, and this is part of the reason I joined the Mises caucus is because when it comes to libertarian messaging and how we define libertarianism, yes, I am a libertarian purist and maximalist. And I did not want the libertarian party to be run by people who sold libertarianism as blue-pilled neoliberal sludge. Okay, so yes, we do need to, to borrow a phrase, I know you like to use Dave. We need to, we need to spit that liberty shit, right? We got to, we got to be able to do that and do that well. But then while we do that, we also have to operate in the status paradigm that we live in. And that means that sometimes we have to look at what isn't a free market, but rather is the result of central planning and public redistribution of resources and property and go, all right, we can't immediately just implement the libertarian solution of privatize everything. So while there is state distortion and while these resources are being held in this fictitious public domain, let's try to make sure that the way that these things are being managed is at least somewhat of an approximate of what we would expect to happen in a more libertarian legal order. But there's some libertarians who like, I mean, they, they act like just like blue-haired leftists who got misgendered, they act like, like, like you insulted their mom when you do that because it's like, well, that's, that's not libertarian, you're violating your principles. It's like, yeah, dude, none of this is libertarian. We don't live in libertarianism. And as much as like, there's a lot of things I disagree with Pete Quinones on, but the whole like living in a capacity and in your head, man, like that is, you know, that is the, he's not libertarian anymore, but man, that was like the best contribution to the libertarian discourse. And it continues to be true to this day. Yeah. And something that I've been saying for Alaska, I posted I think last week and I've been saying it a lot is a, I feel like I've been, I'm going to use this question in this phrase a lot over the next four years, and it's simply four words as opposed to what, as opposed to what? Like, what are we doing here? Yes, Trump lied, Trump's bad, Trump, whatever, whatever, as opposed to what? And let's, let's go and get into the actual conversation here. And I've got some clips. I've got like Angela's, uh, set up speech and all that stuff. And I've got some back and forth with, you know, the stuff that people want to hear that Dave Smith versus Chase Oliver, there was finally, finally Dave Smith put out an invite to chase Oliver, then Chase Oliver took it. Unfortunately, it was a, you know, about six months later than it should have been, but he did have the balls to do it. Um, Jacob, what was your thoughts going into this? What was kind of your goal with this spaces and this conversation and, uh, do you feel like it, uh, had a good outcome? Well, honestly, I was, um, I was really hoping because like I, I'm pretty proud that I keep a, I don't know, I think for especially our type of libertarian, I keep a pretty diverse set of friends. I think you kind of do too. Um, Dan, but, uh, so I was like messages, I mean, like, Hey, there's still some around it. Yeah. Yeah. There's still a few of them a phone. I'm open to anybody who's cool. It's fine. Yeah. They'll be like, Hey, I'm hosting this thing with Dave and Dave's told me because I was like, how do you want to run this and stuff? And he was like, it's like, I want just give me the loudest, like the, the most harsh critics. Like let's just, you know, prioritize them, give them the floor. And I was like, all right. So I messaged a bunch of them. I made sure that like, I mean, after we kind of got past the first 20, 30 minutes of just sort of like setting the stage for the space, um, brought a lot of them up there. And, uh, I don't know, I kind of feel like it was anti climatic because they just brought nothing. It was the same thing over and over and over again. Yeah. Whether it was Chase or the unknowns, the people you've never heard of it was the same arguments. Yeah. But Donald Trump bad. Donald Trump. Well, I told, I, I told Angela afterwards, I was like, you know what's sad is that I could have just myself pretended to take that position and made better like better, better devil's advocate arguments than they were making on the wrong side when I, when I had Dave on my show and I kind of hosted a debate between him and one of my fellow, uh, Christians for Liberty network podcast host Alex Benardo, a fellow Mises libertarian who did vote for Chase, but it's because he lived in a, in Kentucky and it didn't really matter anyway. Um, but he made arguments. I think they would agree in that debate that we're more cogent than anything that happened in that space. Yeah. It's just bad. It's like, it, it, I don't, I don't, people better arguments. I could have made better like Dave Smith could have made better arguments for all the reasons not to vote for Trump than these people were making for like trying to convince everybody that Dave Smith not only was bad for voting for Trump, but he's a sellout and he sold out his principles, sold out the party. Any one of us could make the arguments for how bad Donald Trump is compared to Liberty standards better than anyone else in those spaces. Like guarantee it. Yes. And all of us were doing it all the way up to the point that we were like, fine. Fuck it. We'll do it. We'll vote for the guy. And, uh, yeah. We were, I feel like Dave Casey here and I were bigger critics on Donald Trump than the critics of Donald Trump that it was just more salient points. And then, you know, you get to a point where you can't take it anymore. And there are a lot of people think you click the mute button, buddy. I did. I left it on mute. There are a lot of people in that category, including the chair of the Libertarian Party, Angela McCartill, who had, uh, we're not going to play obviously the entire two and a half hour thing here. I would recommend everybody go over to, um, or can they find this just on the spaces or have you posted this anywhere else, Jacob? It's also on my YouTube channel. I recorded the whole thing. Cool. Fuck Dave Smith. He's a carer. Don't check it out on, uh, Jacob, uh, Jacob's show on his YouTube, uh, and is that just forward slash biblical anarchy, or what, um, I think on YouTube, it's biblical anarchy podcast. Gotcha. All right. Here is, uh, Angela McCartill. We probably won't pause these too much. Probably get through them and, uh, give thoughts after, but here's Angela McCartill. A lot to say to my libertarian critics, and I want to address them even more so than I want to address Chase, you know, I think the goalposts have shifted considerably in the cabinet conversation. I want to remind everyone that Trump never promised an entirely libertarian administration. Those of you pointing and, uh, screeching about every single pick, like it's, that's, it's not correct. I have repeatedly said we will only get one, only one cabinet position and positions underneath that. No one promised you a better GOP either. I said we will get one and we will have to keep fighting for more every election cycle. And I also said that if Trump only keeps one promise, if he only freeze Ross, it will still be a win and the most progress we have ever made at the federal level. Now I will say that Robert F Kennedy Jr. joined the party as a lifetime member. He joined, um, yeah, he joined as a lifetime member. Kennedy is always down. He's putting an hour people into the administration. The man joined the party. He sought our nomination. He didn't get it. And after that, he joined as a lifetime member after he lost our nomination. He's gone to bat for me and for all of us with the incoming administration, I'm going to bat for him right now. And he had leveraged by the way because he dropped out and endorsed Donald Trump. That's why he and his team are at Mar-a-Lago right now going to bat for libertarians against the bad actors in the Senate and APAC and all the other people who are pressuring to try to push us out. And I am so grateful for him, um, for the work that he's doing on the ground he's forging for us. And this is one of the reasons also that I have so aggressively defended the LNC's decision to engage in a joint fundraising agreement with him, which we are still doing. I have, by the way, already done reference calls for some of the libertarians who have applied to be in the administration and filled out many applications and referrals myself. That is happening and a lot of those picks are up to Kennedy himself. Go ahead and scream. Go ahead and scream that Kennedy isn't the one true libertarian. It's not good enough that he displayed moral courage during a national crisis where our two most recent LP presidential candidates were wearing masks and talking about social distancing, outdoor only events, taking the Fauci-auci, you are all possessed, you know, and I want to say, you know, I'm speaking to my critics right now, you are, you are, you suffer from ideological paralysis. You are possessed by a very unproductive demon. Shackled down in paralysis and unable to move because you can't find the purely libertarian path forward, that's not how politics works. Who here has ever tried to get a job in the administration? Who here helped me vet candidates for a cabinet position? Who made calls and gave me names? Only a few of you. Thank you to those of you who did. Do not complain about the cabinet position if you do not help us try to achieve it. At least don't complain about the work that I've done. If you sat on the sidelines and stopped, don't complain. I don't want to hear it. It is very hard. Okay. Maybe we will pause halfway through a few things there. She said that last thing. If you sat on the sidelines and sulked while we were trying to get this cabinet position, you can't really complain about the cabinet position not being fulfilled and that initial lie of Donald Trump that he was going to put a libertarian in his cabinet and now all we have is RFK Jr. That's another point. All the people that are really mad that Donald Trump didn't put a libertarian in their cabinet seemed like the type of people who are really mad about bylaws and things at conventions and things not being exactly up to code. RFK Jr. is a lifetime member of the libertarian party. So according to your bylaws, RFK Jr. is a libertarian. I don't think he is, but by your own standards and your own autistic, like obsession with bylaws and whatnot, he does qualify. I would say he doesn't qualify, but you should say that he does qualify. So I'm curious. Qualifies more than Bill Weld. Absolutely. He does. Bill Weld more than probably a lot of people who are in the libertarian party right now. I think Bill Weld might also be a lifetime member, but that's Jeremy Kauffman had a great post the other day. It costs 25 bucks to be a member of the libertarian party and that's the only thing you have to do. It's a big umbrella. It's a big umbrella to the point of anybody who has 25 bucks, we'll take them. Yo, we talk about purity. He privatized the LP. Yeah. We should. Yeah. Technically. Yes. I'm serious. Yeah. That's funny, man. So Jacob, what are your thoughts so far on this Angela rant on the RFK stuff? People are big mad. That seems to be a big point of contention is Angela's like even her implying that RFK would be an acceptable choice for like he is fine to be the libertarian that Donald Trump supposedly promised as we were all booing him in the audience, not all of us. But the entire crowd of libertarians at the convention were booing him as he proposed it. He said, I will put a libertarian person in my cabinet boo and now we're like, why didn't she do it? How dare he do the thing that we boo him for saying he would do. Yes. I mean, you can't write this stuff. It's clown. Yeah. I don't want to curse. I want to maintain my good Christian branding, but yeah, it's whatever it's it's it's it's clown shit. I mean, there's really no other way to describe it. Like, I don't think these people wonder like you would think libertarians would understand politics, right? Right? Like, it's about leverage. It's the only thing we have. Of course, politics doesn't operate by principles. Like, duh, that is the entire libertarian critique of government is that it doesn't operate by consent and market principles that operates by leverage and backroom deals and and scheming and and a lot of times, you know, a lot of like stuff that we don't like that we don't think is ideal. So like now, listen, like some of the people that joined that space were just making like arguments that I respected more, but they kind of missed the point of the space where they were like, well, there is no political solution. We shouldn't engage in politics at all. Like, well, hold on. That's a whole different debate. Yes. If you want to have a debate that we just abandoned political action and just be agorists or something, I mean, I think that's dumb, as I said later in the space, uh, I think it's fine for your family. If you want to do it, if you want to get out of society and go do your thing, by all means do it. Well, listen, shit on people who are trying to do the work in politics. The truth is that like you can do algorithm a little bit, yeah, in your own private life, but the minute you try to scale that up to be like, because listen, yeah, nullification at the local level, building counter institutions, like that's all fine and good until you get frickin' wake out, right? I mean, you build that stuff up to a certain point and then you've got feds coming down on you. Wouldn't it be nice if we could put someone in charge of the intelligence agency who maybe was less likely to do that? Gosh, if only Trump would have put someone who was, you know, very skeptical of using the government intelligence agencies to prosecute people who have political disagreements with them in that position. That'd be great, wouldn't it? Hypothetically. I mean, there's no other knowing, yeah, I'm just spit going, 'cause any win is a loss for libertarians. Dave, any thoughts? Yeah, I think Angela should hit up RFK Jr. and tell him to go to Twitter and tell everybody that he's the libertarian in the cabinet and that everybody should go sign up for the libertarian party. Surprise. It was all to him. I would so much rather deal with him and his people than the dark corners of the libertarian party as it is. Well, that's the other thing is that the RFK crowd like MAGA and the RFK crowd, and they've kind of started to overlap, but those are both like I went to, we were all at the rescue of the Republic rally and I came out of that event so freakin' white pill 'cause I was having so many conversations with people and even when we were having disagreements, it was like these people are like, they're not libertarians, but like in the broader sort of cultural sense, like these are our people. These are to use a term that you guys will appreciate, dissidents. These are people who are opposed to the regime who we can coalition with and simultaneously, a lot of them probably can be influenced by our ideas and arguments to like especially the RFK crowd 'cause they're kind of politically homeless now, right? Like they might be, some of them might join the Republican party, but I know a lot of them who are like, oh wow, I didn't know anything about libertarianism before all this and now I think I actually might be one. I've heard that so many times over the past year. Yeah. One of the cool thing about truth seekers, man, like if you're really, if you're not Neil deGrasse Tyson, you're not a shill and you're actually seeking the truth, lots of these people have already, Nicole Shanahan is a great example, oh, I never really paid attention to Ron Paul, this guy changed my whole life in while she was running for vice president. You know, like that's happening in real time, dude and yeah, again, these are people mostly, I think of good character and they're at least, they have maybe the same north star and that's more than enough for me to work with those people. Well, I'd rather work with someone of integrity who is maybe a libertarian at heart, but just like, you know, maybe battle a few issues than someone who maybe like checks all my like, you know, ideological boxes, but it's just a crappy person who doesn't have integrity and who is just a, I've already cursed once this episode, but again, I don't know other, the problem is the English language lacks certain words to describe certain behaviors other than, well, yeah, like that, or like, can you just quick listen, can you figure out another word to describe this sort of attitude that people like Chase and other libertarians have other than that they're just like bitches sometimes, right? Like, it's a loser mentality, like they would rather just like, and it's funny because they're trying to say we have a social club, like, no, that's what you did. You guys just like to be in your circle jerk running the same sort of like generic campaign every four years, getting between one and three percent of the vote and moving the needle absolutely zero, like zero, like I know it's a little bit later, but there are some libertarians who are like, as Dave will point out at some point, there are some libertarians on the internet, I see a lot of them because my algorithm for some reason thinks that I enjoy it, I do, and I thank them for it, but the outrage and there are some libertarians who are like stoked, stoked that their enemies within this tiny little microcosm of the libertarian party, their enemies did not get exactly what they were going for, and they failed. There are some libertarians that are stoked that there's not a libertarian in the cabinet for Donald Trump. They're praising it because it's a failure, Angela Mccardle, but speaking of Angela Mccardle, let's wrap this one up, and then we'll move on because we got a couple of these clips. Hard to get confirmation. Yes, I want Corey De Angelis in there to shut down the Department of Education. Remember what happened to Kavanaugh in the Senate confirmation? It is an absolute crucible. You don't get a cabinet position by waiting for someone to publicly promise it to materialize it for you. You get it by fighting for it. I'm communicating with people at Mar-a-Lago every day, I am calling senators, contacting every person of influence I know, vetting and giving references to get our people in the administration. This sort of attitude is why the left wins. They take their wins, they celebrate them, and then they immediately keep fighting, and they never stop. So many of you guys are just ready and excited to lose. It's like you want to lose, and you're so, and then at the same time, you're so afraid of losing that you can't even play the game. I think some of you, like with all due respect, you need to get hit in the face with a soccer ball. I mean, I'm charging into battle with a sword, and you're sitting on the sidelines saying you can't fight because your socks are dirty. It's just the most ideologically dead position anybody could take. I'm fighting neo-con senators, APAC, special interest groups, literal intel agencies, and you're bitching at me on the internet, and moving the goalpost saying this was supposed to be an entirely libertarian administration. You can certainly complain, but don't make it up, and don't complain at me when you've wine and sit on the sidelines doing nothing. I'm going into BC to lop off some heads. You guys are bitching like a woman who broke a nail. Oh, Chase has his hand up. If you want to win politics, you have to fight for it. Chase is admitting. He's like, yeah, yeah, that's me. I did. I did break a nail. I think Dan's muted. Come on, awesome. All right. We're just shut up. Shut up, Dave. I'll make my own theme song. I'll play it on myself, whatever. It's probably time to get a theme song. It's fine. Yes. Chase, he's not only raising his hands about breaking the nail, but he's like, oh, excuse me, lapping off heads. That seems like instigation of violence, and I will not stand for it. I for one stand against, I for one stand against lapping off heads in D.C. I would like to make a motion for every state convention between now and the next national convention for there to be mandatory soccer balls to the face. Everyone has to get in. You can't handle it. Sorry. You're out. If you can't handle it, you're out. If you can't take a soccer ball to the face, you're not ready to fight for liberty. Well, who's throwing it? I feel like it has to be somebody of great crit, otherwise it just nerds throwing soccer balls at each other, and it doesn't really prove the point. And are you able to come with like prepared for battle or are you able to come and mosh that the one black guy in the libertarian movement? Yes. He will be the one throwing the soccer ball because he's the only guy that's cool. All right. For your position, and you have to keep fighting, it is not a social club, what it is morphed into is wrong. It should not be a social club. Politics is a vicious game of thrones world with shifting alliances, powerful outside forces, and it calls for courageous men and women. We have a crisis of leadership in this party in this movement. Speaking of mosh. You know, there are two men in this party. That I have tremendous respect for, even though they hate each other, ironically, and that's mosh to Ray and Jeremy Kaufmann. They are not afraid of shit. Mosh is a man. He is not afraid of shit. He is not afraid of conflict. He knows how to fight. He knows how to deal with confrontation. Jeremy Kaufmann. Not afraid of shit. He will say whatever he believes he'll go to battle for it. He will say some wild shit about politicians on social media have feds knocking on his door and he will tell them to fuck off on camera and humiliate them. When Trump was shot, why did he throw his fist up in the air and refuse to go down? Because you never signal weakness and you've always got to fight. And that's a lesson that we need to learn. We've got to show courage. And I'm going to continue to fight because I've got a fighting spirit. So instead of bitching and complaining, I invite you all to pick up your swords and join them this time. Now, for those that aren't familiar, that is from a 95-pound ginger woman who like just had a baby and she's still doing much more work for the liberty movement than 99% of y'all, including me, including me and probably everybody here. So yeah, we can leave the 19th Amendment for now, for her. You're cool. Yeah. You get a pass. If these people existed like in ancient biblical history, they would be like, imagine Israelites going to Moses and be like Moses, what are you doing? You can't go talk to Pharaoh and ask him to let us go. Would you know, Pharaoh worships false gods? Don't you know that he's a tyrant? How could you try to influence him, to do the right thing and let us go? What you really need to do is just write some more books about how slavery is wrong and eventually convince everyone. Right. Yeah. I mean, seriously, I think that I have no more words. I'm literally like a Karen right now, just like speechless at how enraged people make me because here's the thing. There are real world consequences to this. Like I actually think that what Angela's doing is saving lives. I really do. Like it doesn't mean that it's all perfect, doesn't mean that it's going, we're not going to end the wars, but I think the long-term consequences, not only for people like Ross, but you know, over the next year, over the next five years, over the next 10 years, is that even if the death totals in all the interventions drops by a little bit, like, listen, there's no way to measure this stuff, but the fact that we can have this sort of influence on the people in this administration that we have a seat at the table, you can't tell me that that's going to have zero impact. I believe that it will. Not to mention that even if we just focused on Ross, because I really do think Trump will, I believe that it will have zero impact, or you believe that it will have some impact more than the Chase Oliver campaign. Oh, it will have way more impact. And not to mention that like just Ross being free and being able to share his testimony, how much that's going to impact lives, how much that's going to continue to enable libertarians to talk about the horrors of, you know, sort of like state, you know, political prosecution. I mean, it's just all this stuff has major implications, but they don't care about that. They would rather just complain on the sidelines. I mean, they're worse than the Hebrews who complained in the wilderness and said, let's just go back to Egypt day to get old political here, but I mean, you said Hebrews and I thought we were going down a real dark path. I was down for it, but we could get, I mean, if you're down, that might be a different podcast for another day, probably rumble exclusive. Dave, you got any thoughts I do want to get into some Dave Smith versus Chase Oliver here too. Yeah, I'll be brief, man. Mostly thoughts of gratitude, people who are, I mean, you can tell she's fired up. She's speaking to her critics. The fact that she has critics is just, it speaks to how unremarkable and unimpressive these people are. She has more critics than Chase Oliver does and Chase Oliver is the candidate. And like you said, I mean, that was one of, I think. The best things I've ever heard her say, I mean, just genuine as F, you know, I'm going to be cool with my F words while Jacob's here today. Fuck. But I'm sorry, man, it's his show, but that's really what I'm feeling is gratitude and I hope some people listen, it's going to be funny if people who like aren't familiar with the libertarian party hear that for the first time, they must be like, what the fuck is going on? But I like- What the F Dave? Settle down. I'm so sorry. It's so natural. But I love Angela in her, like she's got senioritis, like this is her. She's not running again. And she can just, she's going to be herself and that's dangerous. Dave, she's been talking about 2028, which implies that she's running again. We're doing this in 2028. No, she's not doing it. I mean, she already said she's already said she's not going to do that. I mean, I hope that she's, I didn't find her running again. Oh, we're going to do this. I assume she's not, but I want her to ramp up the next thing, absolutely, and get that built up. We in 2028. That's, you know, kind of maybe the bad news then is that Angela is remarkable. She is special. So like you're going to have to find somebody who is willing to put them, as she says, each shit. You're going to have to find somebody who saw all this and go, all right, I'll do that. Who is also as great as she is. So we should start planning for that now, or that's what I said, you know, like, bring some RFK supporters in here. Whatever you got to do. Chase plan on running. So if you guys don't want Chase to be your chair next time, somebody step up. I don't know who, I don't know who is qualified to do that dork shit and do it well like Angela does because, you know, we have a long history of doing the dork shit really hard, but Angela's the one who finally broke out of it. So somebody step up and, you know, if, if anybody, if either of you or anybody out there, he just through the rumbling through the grapevine of anybody who has a potential or prospects of being the next chair other than Chase Oliver, please let me know because I like to stay abreast of these things. And I want to know if I need to stick around or if I'm good to go, you let me know. You guys let me know. It's fine. It's not me. It's you. Now, here is a bit of the back and forth with Chase Oliver as he, well, as I mentioned, there was a lot of, you know, RFK Jr. isn't libertarian enough. Did Donald Trump lie? It was, Donald Trump's a liar was a lot of Chase Oliver's fine, finally, Chase Oliver was given the platform to give his best and what he gave us was Donald Trump's bad. And also I'm not a candidate anymore. So it doesn't really matter. But let's get a little bit of that. My question, you know, for Dave, if you can answer the question, too, if you feel like Trump has maybe broken that promise. But my question is, do you. Yeah, we might have to do that. It'll slow him down a little bit. Do want Angela's comment on this. I've seen now people are saying online that the reason why Trump hasn't put a nominee in is because, well, we had a libertarian candidate for president. The fact that I ran for president is the reason why we don't. But remarks that you have made on election day and post election day saying that we're working on it. We're getting it. We're in contact with the team. I just find that those two narratives to not be like parallel to one another. And so my question to each of you is, like, do you feel that Trump has broken the promise here? I feel like he has. Like I would have loved to have seen a Thomas Massey at agriculture or to see a Corey Dandelister to see a libertarian somewhere, like, I don't even know, I, Secretary of State, would have been awesome. So before he answers that, I want to say while this was happening, I was just screaming, like, as opposed to what, as opposed to what? And also, yes, we know Donald Trump's a politician and a liar, but as opposed to what? Chase Oliver, who would have done nothing or Kamala Harris, who would have been a bigger politician and a bigger liar. So as opposed to what? Honestly, Chase, man, like, and I don't even mean this, like, in insulting way, man. But even the question of like, do I feel like he's broken a promise is like the most fucking blue-pilled question I've ever heard in my life. Like, I don't know. Yeah. Maybe kind of. He made a, he made a commitment. And he happened. Shouldn't you be pissed? Shouldn't you be pissed about that? I mean, no. Hold on. Let me just say this. Listen, man. It's like, first of all, shouldn't he be more upset? That a politician lied? That a politician lied? That a politician lied? I'm not even exactly sure what he promised. Like he said, if you guys support me, then I'll do this. And kind of, did we really support him? Or did he really do this? None of this is really the point. Like all, it all kind of like the fact is that there are some positives that come out of Donald Trump being in there. We have some positives. We have some libertarian or close to libertarian or at least outside of the corruption of this entire system, people. Only a few. It's outweighed by the hawks. But I said, on my podcast when I announced that I was thinking about support in Trump, I said, it's quite possible he comes through on none of this. He comes through on absolutely none of this. And all that happens is that Kamala Harris has stopped and the entire corporate media apparatus has shattered. And everybody admits that the alternative, you know, internet show is now really the mainstream. Now, before we comment on that, I did want to play this. This is the mainstream media. This is Axio CEO melting down over Elon Musk telling ex-users you are the media now to just to help prove Dave's point, and then we can comment on that. Everything we do is under fire. Elon Musk sits on Twitter every day or X today saying like, we are the media. You are the media. My message to Elon Musk is bull. You're not the media. You have a room full of the media quote unquote, the media, TM, applauding bullshit. People like me, Dave, and Jacob here are not the media. It is the people who were lying to you all through COVID who are the media and all through the entire election process reporting on polls that were clearly not true. You having a blue check mark, a Twitter handle and 300 words of cleverness doesn't make you a reporter. It shouldn't. Do that by popping off on Twitter. It shouldn't. Don't do that by having an opinion. You do it by doing the hard work. You do it by being us. Here's morning. You do it. You do it. Oh, we love it. I've got to say. Extraordinary content. It needed to be sad. Yeah. It can tell it needed to be sad. Well. All right. That's enough of the morning. Oh my God. All right. So yes, there we had, you know, Dave Smith saying basically like if even nothing else, the mainstream media is demolished or the corporate agenda is demolished. That's a win, right? That's at least one thing in a positive direction. And to prove his point, we have the media TM melting down because Elon Musk would have the gall to say that people with opinions on the internet don't really matter. They don't have opinions. People like us, we're not the media. It's the people who lie to you. And then morning Joe applauding that and saying this needed to be said. And really like the calculation to vote for Trump sort of came down to several things. But one main thing was that one side is literally the enemy. And the other side is opposed to all of the correct enemies that we need to be opposed minus one. Right. Really what it came down to. Yeah. And I would say, well, and I would just say really quick, the other thing is that because some people have said, well, what should we just always vote Republican now and just always do? I'm like, well, it depends on who runs from all three parties. It depends on how good enemies are to well, right? It depends on who the libertarian candidate is and if they actually run a decent campaign and have a compelling message, it depends on, you know, who Donald Trump's, you know, successor is going to be. Because if he runs, if the vague is the successor, that that's something to consider. And if we run someone they chase Oliver again, that's something to consider. But like no one's saying that, okay, yeah, we're just going to do this. It's like, you got to take each situation for what it is. Right? Yeah. Absolutely. Dave. Dave. Yeah, man, that, you know, I love to see the corporate press wig out and panic like their neo de grace Tyson. That's always really fun. But what they don't want you to know, which is the absolute undisputed truth, is that everyone is the militia and everyone is the press. That is not for any group regulated here that you must have this pass or this blue check or this thing. But it is anybody who participates in that action. So these people will be telling Thomas Paine, like, how dare you write pamphlets telling people what to think about politics, you are not the press. Yeah. Absolutely. Not the pamphlet makers. And in this next clip, which we're going to have to wrap here, because I do want to do something after this libertarian nonsense. But I do want to end on mainly this last segment here is where chase Oliver realizes, well, he comes back with a rebuttal to Dave Smith saying that he's blue-pilled and his question is blue-pilled. And this is bullshit. Like why would you even like who cares if Donald Trump is lying, Donald Trump is a politician and we all knew what this was going to be, take what you can get basically. I do want to point out a couple things before we get into that, because this is also them talking about people will be like sell libertarian celebrating the losses, celebrating the failures being allergic to success of any kind, we've got the we are libertarians podcast network who I've been with some friends of who posted failure over Angela McCartill because we did not get that libertarian and the cabinet that Donald Trump promised celebrating those those L's for liberty as libertarians are tend to do. We also have Donnie who says Biden partnering Ross would be the ultimate troll counter to his troll authoritarian. So these people look at it as a win if Joe Biden does it and Donald Trump doesn't. But we're supposed to feel bad that we want Donald Trump to do it. Like whoever does it, I don't care. It would like the fact that you don't realize that we would be perfectly fine with Joe Biden doing the thing. The fact that you think that that is a dig at people who voted for Donald Trump, it's not a dig at all. Yes Joe Biden or the Illuminati puppet Joe Biden who's being controlled by whoever whoever wants to do it, feel free to do it and we will absolutely praise whoever does it. And as long as Donald Trump keeps appointing bullshit people, we will call him out on it. And if Donald Trump pardons Ross, we'll praise him just as much as we would praise Joe Biden. But what do you guys thoughts on, you know, libertarians and their aversion to victory of any kind? I think that so I'm a Christian because I believe that Jesus died for me, you know, and my testimony have overcome a lot because of that. And I'm a libertarian because not only do I look at the principles taught in the Bible and read things like, you know, from Rothbard and Mises and think, oh wow, that's true. But really like what drives me to be libertarian and be an active, like vocal, public libertarian advocate is because I care about people. If all you care about are principles and you don't care about people, then sit the F down. Fuck. I almost almost lost it there. I almost lost it. There. I got you. But seriously, like if you don't care about people, if all you care about are your principles then your principles are meaningless because you know what my principle is? My principle is that the reason why I like self-ownership and the non-aggression principle matter is because like it's not like, oh, it's because I'm immoral if I initiate conflict against someone else and break the libertarian legal theory. No, it's because innocent people are killed every day by the totalitarian regime we live under and we should maybe do something about that. We should try to save some people's lives and prove some people's lives. But no, we can't do that because of the most precious principles. Fuck your principles. If that's your principle is to let people die while you maintain your ideological purity, then you and I are not on the same team. This motherfucker spit. Yeah. Absolutely. I'm honestly not sure if we even need to go back to the rest of it. Everybody can go check it out on their own. Chase bails out after he gets called out for blue pill questions. And he realizes that his rebuttal is the same thing repeated again that RFK Jr is. But remember, RFK Jr is not a libertarian and I will leave some space for other people to talk here because the clock's ticking and liberty in our lifetime or something. That's basically what it was. Go check it out for yourselves. I do think it's worth a note that for all of Chase and his victim status as the libertarian presidential candidate because everybody didn't love him after he, you know, called everybody a Nazi and said that he wanted nothing to do with the party and had a whole lot of opinions that distance himself, including like Ron, I don't like Ron Paul and I'm hashtag sorry, not sorry. All that stuff, all that stuff. I just want to make note that Chase Oliver finally got the press that he was looking for because this podcast or this spaces had 134.2,000 views while I assume his biggest interview, the John Stossel interview that he did currently is sitting at 60,000 views from four months ago. You can't see that. It's there. Trust me. 60,000 views from four months ago, Chase Oliver got that press, got that unit that he was looking for and it all came from Dave Smith and Jacob Winograd. So thank you guys for doing the dirty work of dragging Chase out of his hole to get a couple views and maybe next time around when Chase Oliver runs again, they'll be able to find him and find out some things about him. I do have one more thing I want to do before we piece out. So do you guys have any final thoughts on Chase? We didn't even play the Chase theme song. It's been a rough day. It's been a busy week and we're on time limits these days, but do you guys have any final thoughts on Chase, Dave, Angela, this whole liberty unity thing? Did Dave Smith sell out his principles? Did we sell out our principles or, you know, was it just obviously the only choice as opposed to what? Jacob, be good. Yeah. Well, it's always compared to what? I mean, that is the most important question that we have to ask. And I think like I alluded to it earlier, it's always a matter of evaluating the trade-offs of each individual like election cycle you walk into. In 2020, Trump was not offering us anything. We had just gotten out of COVID, actually we're still in COVID, right, in the lockdowns. And you know, although Trump had done maybe a few in comparison, like it wasn't as bad as prior presidents, he just wasn't compelling to vote for at all. Not that like Joe and Spike were super compelling, but it was at least a better sell as a protest to vote in that election. In this election, if Trump had played the same game again, I probably would have just have ended up not voting. If we, unless we had run someone who wasn't Chase, Chase just didn't offer like the whole point of voting libertarian is to send a message, right, at the federal level. We can win state and local sometimes, but the federal level, the point is to send a message. It wasn't anything that Chase was doing that I wanted to get behind and resonate and blow up. And I kind of try, like I really tried my hardest to give him a fair shake, but anytime I had to go and argue to people why they should vote for Chase, I couldn't go, hey, go check out this clip that he did where he made some really good arguments or check out this viral moment from this show he did. Check out him on Joe Rogen, Tucker Carlson, Tim Poole, or Dave Smith, or anybody at all. No, the arguments I had to make for Chase were just me arguing my own arguments for libertarian. It was like, well, I'm not running, Chase is running and he's giving me nothing to go for. I'm doing all the heavy lifting myself. So you're voting L because L? Yeah. And isn't that the whole like, if we're libertarians because we reject the two party system and it's just because we want to make a three party system, let's stupid. That's not worth investing time into. Um, I'm here to bust up the regime, not to, you know, end the duopoly. Absolutely. Dave, thoughts? I do want to get what we're all thankful for. That's what I want to end on. We do not have to end on bitching and moaning about bitches and movers. There's a lot of thankful for Chase. Yeah, he did a lot for us this year. Um, yeah, man, I, um, it's funny you just mentioned that, like, you know, the duopoly and, you know, these are, are, are counterparts in this party are interested in things like term limits or the third part or the third party by itself will just by definition, you'll have more liberty. Third party. Right? Like this does not resonate with me rank choice voting. I could give a fuck. I'm so sorry, Jacob, um, get her a bad influence, but there, but there's no there. Like when you look at a yin yang, right? Like everybody knows you got your rads, you got your prags. But it's, it's fascinating that our camp wants the party to be the tip of the spear as radical as it possibly can be so that we can use it as a tool where we may be pragmatic in the outside world, whereas the prags want to kind of dull down the message to get more voters and more members and more people running for office because that's what drives them. You know what I mean? I think that that's a really interesting red, blue, whether that's culture or your pill or whatever, that's, that's an interesting dichotomy. And that I still think that that's kind of the split. They see it as just a mechanism to run for office. And that is the purpose. And it is over. And there is no creativity to be had. There is no liberty lobbying to be done. We just preach principles from our little party that has 12,000 people in it and we'll keep doing that. I, I just, I don't have the time for that. As somebody who spent a lot of time, did my part, ran one beginning and was a county chair. I did that for two years. I grew my party. I did all the shit. Hashtag take human action. I did it. And it, it was a good thing, but yeah, I don't know, man, I don't know what's going to happen with, you know, the next changeover, but I am grateful for all the people who, who the takeover was worth it. It was, I think Jacob is right in, you have no idea what the reverberations of this are going to look like a year or two, 10 down the road. What happens when we have, like, dudes, take advantage of this four years and I mean the four year. I mean, not even talking about the party. I'm talking about this four years to do some shit. Everybody take advantage right now. And grateful for this show and you guys and all the work and man, I'm having some really cool shit happen in my life right now. Life changing shit, man. All because of seriously, got to give it up to Mike Heis maybe because I started taking some human action, poking around in the universe, not being a spectator. You got to play some, oh, this is our thankful music. It's Thanksgiving. Oh, thank you. Oh, yeah. I'm feeling, I'm feeling the gratitude and I'll let you guys wrap it up, but Jacob, thanks for being here, brother. Great. Great talking with you. Dave, thank you for being here. Dave, where can people find you? And what are you thankful for this Thanksgiving? Oh, man, I'm thankful because I'm on the dopest fucking show on the internet and, you know, talking about some real shit with you guys. And, man, yeah, I'm thankful for my chick right in there who's probably a little pissed at me for not having dinner ready. But, you know, it's Tuesday. We're doing a fire test. No, man, I'm, my cup runneth over. I'm so, so grateful to be here and, yeah, grateful for the experience. Absolutely. Dave, you can leave whenever you need to. Jacob, thank you for being here, man. And where can people find you? And what are you thankful for this Thanksgiving? Yes. So you guys can find me on Twitter at biblical anarchy. You can also, if you want to look up my YouTube channel at the biblical anarchy podcast, right after I'm done this, I'm going live with Kyle Anselone of the Libertarian Institute. And we're going to be talking about how, hopefully, World War 3 doesn't happen before January 20th. So that'll be fun. Listen, yeah, I mean, I'll kind of echo what Dave said. I'm thankful for the Mises caucus, you know, I haven't, you know, I don't think any of us have always like 100% agreed on everything, but I, I'm so proud of the accomplishments that we accomplished together over the last how many years it's been in existence, I guess like six, seven years, um, it started out the small little Facebook group. And we've propelled to the point where we're having an influence in federal level politics. And it might result in, you know, if someone like Ross Albert going free and, and libertarian ideas being injected back into the national discourse. I mean, Ron Paul and and the Fed and all this stuff was freaking trending and it's still trending over the last couple weeks. I mean, and we haven't had that in years. So yeah, I'm, I'm super thankful for that. It's helped. It's helped me personally. It's helped. I think where we're at politically, um, and I'm excited to see what happens in the future. And I'm thankful for you guys for having me on. It was a blast. Absolutely. Thank you so much for being here. Both of you. Jacob finally, Dave as always, you guys can leave whenever you want, but I have some final thoughts. This Thanksgiving. Um, we may not have a libertarian present yet, but still I am thankful for what I have. I have a lovely wife, three amazing kids. I have the show, my family and friends. I'm thankful for Donald Trump with or without his lies because his lies are still more valuable than Chase's truths. I'm thankful for peace talks that were sparked the day after Donald Trump was elected. I hope we all live long enough to see that happen, frankly. I'm thankful for Elon Musk being inspired by Ron Paul and Vivek Ramaswamy to push the ideas of liberty to the forefront of the conversation. Like no one else has literally ever, including penultimate to Ron Paul. I'm thankful for Elon's ability to influence Donald Trump with these ideas. I'm thankful for Angela McCartill's bravery to seize every unpopular opportunity for actual betterment of the world. I'm thankful that I'm alive and I'm thankful that I am still in the greatest country in the greatest time, our time. I'm thankful for you and your time. I'm thankful for Jacob and Dave and their time. And I'm thankful for this clusterfuck of existence timeline that we're in. I look forward to seeing where it goes. Also, I'm thankful to my family, my wife and son, I know at least my son is probably watching right now. Son, it's past your bedtime, it's 6.35, go to bed. Happy Thanksgiving everyone, it's been fun, we'll catch you when we do. Enjoy the holidays, enjoy your family, and be thankful for what you have. And enjoy it as long as it lasts. Be it the Libertarian Party, the Libertarian Principles, Donald Trump, who knows. Your life, we're all going to die someday, hopefully it's longer, hopefully it's farther away than Joe Biden wants it to be, hopefully, God bless you, and happy Thanksgiving everyone. Stay comfortable, be bad, have fun, we'll see you next time, bye bye. (soft music)
Today, Dan Smotz & Dave Casey are joined by Jocob Winograd of Biblical Anarcy to watch the world burn, while laughing their way thru all the most important articles in the news… and a whole lot of unimportant ones as well. On the Docket: * Libertarians vs Success * Trump Buyer’s Remorse? * Neil Degrasse Tyson is an idiot * Giving Thanks * and more Question everything. Stay uncomfortable. Lets get weird. Follow Jacob: https://twitter.com/biblicalanarchy Follow Dan: https://twitter...
