"You know what really makes us mad, is wasting money on CDs with only one or two good songs!" "Yeah, tell me about punk!" "What's up posers? What's in the punk lot of pod? I'm your coach Justin Hensley. I'm your other co-host Dylan Hensley." And this is the show where we choose one year at random and select one punk, hardcore emo or punk adjacent album from that year to discuss. Patreon.com/punklotopod is where you get access to all of our weekly bonus audio. For $1, it gets you access to the most recent episode of Bracatology, where we discuss the punk albums of 1977 and head-to-head single elimination tournament. Always fun to do those, and because we discussed 1977, we used up a lot of the albums that we're going to be talking about in the chart section coming up, so we have an alternate plan there. But I really enjoy these Bracatologies, they're probably one of my favorite things we do for the bonus audio. And coming soon, we should be releasing the first of my Best of 2024 bonus audio. I'm going to start off with the biggest disappointments of 2024, and actually should be up. The week of this recording is being released, so yes, be on the lookout for that if you haven't heard it yet. The disappointments list, I don't really publish those outside of the Patreon, because I don't want anybody seeing who I'm talking down on. No stitches in there. If you see some that you're like, "What? Don't be tagging them." I try avoiding punching down on any band, or a band that doesn't need negative attention. I tend to focus more on big bands, but still, I don't really need someone complaining about me saying they're new metal again. Yes, that's patreon.com/punklotopod. You can also sign up at the $5 producer/listening club tier, where as a producer, you'll get your name said on the podcast, and as a listing club, you'll get to join in on a monthly video chat where we all get together and discuss the album. Our next listing club shall be on December 2nd, and we will be discussing Swing and Utter's juvenile product of the working class. If you want to get in and talk about that record, sign up for that $5 tier. Then we have our $10 tier, where you get to choose the album we devote an entire episode to. We have one of those coming up next week. A lot of stuff going on in the "Punklotopod" universe, and I guess we can get on the show. It was my turn to be assigned a year, and I was looking back, I was like, "Well, we've done the 80s, we've done the 90s, we've done a lot of those lately." And I was like, "Okay, we should probably do something from either the 70s or the 2010s." There's not a lot left to choose from out of the 70s, and in the 2010s are not that popular as far as listeners. So it was kind of a decision based on what have we not done, and we've only covered one year from the 70s this entire year. And that was like way back in February. So I was like, "You know what, we should probably do some more 70s." So I pulled the year 1977. Big year for "Punk." It's the year that the UK punk scene exploded, and then meanwhile in the US it is the continuation of the New York scene, and then a lot of the other scenes around the country are starting to kind of take shape. And yeah, like I said at the top there, we did discuss quite a few of the albums from 1977 that we would normally would talk about here. And so for this one we decided, let's look at just the overall charts in general, just so we can get an idea of what else was going on in '77. So what piques your interest right away? Other 77 records, I guess we've got Pink Floyd and Fleetwood Mac, and probably not the most germane to our show. I guess what is most relevant to punk. I mean maybe that David Bowie record would be of interest. There's two David Bowie records in '77, I think low and heroes. So part of his Berlin trilogy, we kind of talked a little bit about that on the Patreon in relation to the Iggy pop records in '77. Other than that, does the suicide record show up on the punk charts? It does. I just don't think I've ever listened to the whole thing. This is not my kind of music. Suicide record, Suicide's self-titled record is a record that I wish I liked more, I guess is how I would say. There's aspects of it that I like, but I think the last time I revisited it a couple years ago, I was not feeling it. I mean there's stuff, I think Ghost Rider is a good song. I think Shuri's got a pretty good idea. It's a little too monotonous and gross. Yeah, the monotony is the thing that I just don't like it. I can't get to it, get through it, I'll listen to Ghost Rider and that's about it. It's just not an album that I enjoy in the slightest. It's important, especially for electronic music, but man, I don't want to hear it though. We have a craft work record and it's craft work is kind of similar in I recognize the importance, but I don't want to listen to it. Yeah, same, I don't like the songwriting. The work is good, it's creatively interesting, but just the songwriting is not for me, I cannot get into it. There's a Bryan Eno record before and after science is pretty good. I think I've listened to that Wailers record Exodus and it's pretty good, it has jamming on it, got one love on it. It's really unfortunate that Bob Marley has appealed to such dumb people and that people have such a, just that they've divorced the revolutionary aspects of reggae from the music and the culture of reggae and really overlooked the fact that it was very radical music. And it is also just kind of like overplayed, like all the Bob Marley hits are like, you just heard them too much, it's just over exposure, makes it hard to really enjoy them. But when I've listened to Bob Marley records, I'm like, you know, it's a good record. Despite it's like, you know, over popularity and misinterpretation and just like boiling, you know, the how reggae has just been boiled down to like good vibes, man, music. And it's like, that's Jimmy Buffett, you guys are mixing them up. Bob Marley is singing about shooting cops. Yeah, yeah. It's not good vibes music, man. It's like, no, you won't crush our spirit music. My name is True by Elvis Costello. That's, I think, very much of interest to punks. Honestly, kind of surprise, it doesn't have anything that would fall under the punk tax. Yeah, I was looking at that because New Wave doesn't, New Wave isn't categorized as a subgenre of punk. Honorate your music, which I guess technically speaking, it's not, you know, it does kind of predate the popularity of punk music. The idea of it as a genre of music was it's a new wave of rock music, I guess. It's just a fusing of glam and power pop and reggae and Scott influences definitely. And mod is just kind of like taking everything that existed in rock music, you know, other than like full on hard rock and making it one genre again. Yeah, I cannot get an Elvis Costello. I know you like a couple records by him. Those first two records are great. I can't go past them, though. Yeah, I just, I don't know. Just don't care. Like I listened to a few stuff and I'm just like, I just don't connect with it in any way whatsoever. I guess it's worth mentioning Queen or at least News of the World, which what feet, what is on this record. There's so many Queen records. We will rock you. We are the champions to your heart attack. And yeah, that's it. One of those bands that's like, they're known for their hits more than anything, which means like every record has like one to three songs, you know, and then the rest you're like, what, I have never heard this before. It's funny that sheer heart attack is on News of the World because there's an album called sheer heart attack that has the song sheer heart attack on it. Yeah, that is weird that that. No, wait, no, actually, it's not on there. That's the song sheer heart attack is not on the album sheer heart attack. They did a, what's the Zeppelin one? Houses of the Holy. Yeah, and this is sheer heart attacks the one with Brighton Rock and Killer Queen. Yeah, News of the World is their sixth album too, which so many records. God, nobody really likes to admit it, but they're greatest hits, man. Like most people are not deep cutting on the Queen records. Oh, man, we got the stranger by Billy Joel. Don't. Yeah, sure. Don't care about Billy Joel. I would have, I would have rather talked about Funk and Telekey versus the placebo syndrome by Parliament. Now that's a good record. Sure. Yeah, Parliament. The more accessible of the George Clinton P funk family tree and it's still not that accessible. Parliament's weird. That's a cocaine band. Yeah. Yeah. Sir nose devoid of funk. Yellow released out of the blue, which features sweet talking woman and Mr. Blue Sky is on this record. This is a double album and I don't think I've listened to this record, but I bet it's great. It is. It's really good. All this stuff is just not punk. No, it's really. We got a thing. We got bad reputation by then, Lizzie. Sin after Sin, I think by Judas Priest. So there's some good metal stuff, hard rock stuff. We got Bad out of Hell by Meat Loaf, the most badass heavy metal record available, right? Yeah. The album covered to music disparity is so huge on Meat Loaf's records. Like they look like the coolest metal records ever and you listen to them and they're like, piano operas? Like, what is this? Little Queen by heart. That's a kickass record. Yeah, back in their still rocking era. There's a record you talked about, Pacific Ocean Blue by Dennis Wilson. Yep. Talked about that on the spinning out. There's also a Beach Boys album that same year. Love you. It's Love You, yeah, which is a, it's got moments. It's not a great record overall. There's very few truly great Beach Boys records from the beginning band. They're all weird listens. There's a lot of City Pop and new music and from here to attorney by Giorgio Moroder. That's a, that's a kind of fun record. That's fun. Yeah. I mean, it's nothing like amazing as far as like the songs, but it's definitely one of those records of. That's a cool sound. Accelerating like the genre, or not the genre, but just like the use of electronic music and electronic instruments. And there's so many sounds on this record that just, you just hear in all the new wave albums going forward after this. And Book of Dreams by Steve Miller bands. What's on that one? Um, Jet airliner, swing town, jungle love. Mmm. It's a pretty good one. The steak, probably I think the best, like beginning to end album, listen of Steve Miller records. Like Fly Like and Eagle maybe has more hits, but overall as a record. Yeah. I don't know. I haven't really spent as much time with like the full LPs because Steve Miller has so many albums too. Another one of those ones is like, he started in the 60s and a lot of it's just like, not very good. Just kind of like weird rambling psych rock and like all over the place. I mean, I've listened to those first couple of records. I think they're good, but they're not amazing albums. Yeah. I mean, I guess if we wanted to like specifically talk about punk and punk adjacent albums from 77 that we did not talk about on the bracketology that we did. That gives you stuff like Chrome. Yeah. Pure mania by the vibrators. That's a really good record. Yeah. We have the Heartbreakers. L-A-M-F. Sorry, record. Cheap trick that year. Two cheap tricks. There's two ultra-vox albums. There's an Ian Dury album, New Boots and Panties. The last T-Rex record, Danny in the Underworld came out that year. And that's I think kind of relevant to punks because it was like the beginning of a little bit of a career revival for T-Rex like right before he died. Before Mark Boland died. And would have been the time period where like he had the dam to open on tour. That's really good. I really like Danny in the Underworld. I think it's a really good record. And a lot of your also rans of the UK punk scene. We have your Eddie in the Hot Rods and your Dictators and Eater, the Outsiders, the Drones, the Stinky Toys. Yeah. And I guess like what of the notable punk records. I guess there's one glaring exception of records that I've never heard and never will. I'll screw it up. Yeah. On 77. Yes. Screwdriver. It's the record where people are like, well that first one's not racist. It's like it's before they were openly racist. Yeah. It just means that they were hiding it a little better. I mean, unless every member of the band quit after that first record, which I don't think that's the case of this band. Yeah, they had the same vocalist the entire time. Dude was racist the whole time. He just got comfortable. Yeah, man. They have so many fucking records too. Jesus. There's like 11 screwdriver albums. Gross. They're not as low rated as you'd expect either. But I guess also the only type of people who would listen to a screwdriver record nowadays likes it. So, but even then they're not that highly rated. Gross. Anyway, I guess I'll do the, what I almost selected. We did, I think wind up talking about all of them. So we're not going to really say anything. But I was considering Markey Moon. I also considered never mind the bollocks and I considered the motorhead self title record. I guess with all of those records, I was like, we should probably do the sex business record someday. It's big. It's a big record. We should probably cover it. And then with motorhead, I was like, this might be the only one that actually tagged punk out of their entire discography. So this could be the one to talk about as far as that goes. But yeah, there's a lot of good choices in 77. It is a strong year. We have previously covered in 1977. The damned, both damned albums, damn damn damn and music for pleasure. We did that as a double episode in episode 230. We also discussed the clash self titled in episode 179. We discussed the album punk rock by the FU2. We did that with a fly on the call. RIP podcast. Very random obscure fake punk band with like members of what the down liner sect. Is that what the deal with that band was? Episode 42. We did the boys self title record as well as squeezes packet of three EP. And we did this is the modern world by the jam as well as the carpets EP Radio Vundabar back in episode 27. So we feel a lot of the 77 records. There's there's a few more to hit as well, but thought I would point those out. I guess we could get into the album. So before we do that, we want to shout out our producers. So shout out to Dave Brown host the podcast one band five songs as well as the writer of the blog Oklahoma lefty. Shout out to Steve long host the podcast rebel rock radio. Jason W writer of the newsletter songs about chocolate and girls and shout out to Phillips Booker. And we think our producers and if you would like your name said join at the five dollar producer credit tier on our patreon. So out of 1977 I selected young loud and snotty by the dead boys. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] And a couple stats on the band originally from Cleveland, Ohio, they formed in 1975. This was released October 1977 on Sire Records. This is their debut album and the person on this record is Jeff Magnum on bass, Johnny Blitz on drums, Cheetah Chrome on guitar, Stiv Bader on vocals, Jimmy Zero on guitar and Bob Clear Mountain on bass. And the album was produced by Jynya Raven or Revan, not entirely short, R-A-V-A-N. Okay, so what is your experience with the dead boys? I think for a long time it was a handful of songs. I guess I would have been introduced to them. Was it a cover of Sonic Reducer from that what Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3 or 4? It was like Suburban Wasteland I think was the actual, because that's the one that's like all covers of classic punk songs. I definitely would have been the earliest. I don't remember if that's the first place I heard it though. There's a chance, but I don't know. That was "Saves the Day" covered it. It was American Wasteland. Is that song in something else? Is it in SLC punk? What do you mean the original? Yeah, Sonic Reducer, the dead boys version. Do the dead boys show up in that soundtrack? I don't think they do. It is in Tony Hawk's Underground 2, but I don't think I played that one. The original. Yeah, it's in that hardcore logo documentary. I don't know. I don't think it is in anything else. It's been covered by a lot of bands, but yeah, I don't know. There's a chance. There's just as equal a chance that we heard the cover before we heard the original, but they would have been so close together. I want to say I knew the song already before I heard the "Saves the Day" version though, because if you're going to start listening to the dead boys, it's probably the first thing you're going to hear. And I remember having a couple dead boys songs burned on CDs. Very similar to the minor thread ups that we did, where I just had random songs downloaded. So I definitely had Sonic Reducer and I had, what's the third song on here maybe? All this and what is love? What love is I had also on a burnt CD. So there's a good chance I heard the original version actually first. So yeah, just doing that thing I did when I first got to college and had high speed internet and like a peer-to-peer downloading software. Just downloading anything I've heard of that was punk and would have just would have been one of the songs I would have gotten a hold of. I'm trying to remember if I would have, when I would have listened to the full album for the first time. And it probably would have been a lot later, but I'm not sure. I wish I could remember exactly. Definitely remember seeing the album cover a lot. And yeah, I can't think of the exact point when I would have listened to it. It's probably been over 10 years since I listened to the whole record for the first time. I just wonder how close it was after hearing Sonic Reducer that it was. It was probably a couple years. I don't think it was one that I immediately went and found their records and listened to them later. But I was definitely familiar with this cover. For me, the most notable memory of listening to this album in full would have been a few years ago when I deep-dived on all of the 77 punk stuff. I remember listening to it a few years ago and being kind of disappointed. I guess it had more of a legacy in my head of what I thought it would be and what I knew of Sonic Reducer's great song. There's other songs that I know from the record, but the overall experience of listening to the record that time was like, "Huh, this doesn't quite hit the way I wanted it to. I expected it to." It's good. My takeaway was it's good. It's really good. It's not great. Not amazing. Not, again, like I said, not what I expected it to be. I think the first time I listened to it, I remember thinking that, "Whoa, they're part of that 77 CBGB scene." I remember thinking that, "Wow, they're definitely a lot harder than so many of their contemporaries, especially in that scene at the time." It's them, and then there are moans, and they're not really even as hard as there are moans as far as their wild. They seem to have a lot more in common with the UK scene at the time than the rest of their contemporaries in New York. I remember thinking, "Whoa, this is definitely, I don't know." I definitely heard it a lot longer ago than you did, so it probably embedded itself into me a little deeper than you did initially. I think I probably listened to it while I was working at the bank 2015, and that would have been in one of those days where I was just consuming eight hours of music straight. If it didn't make a lasting impression then of, "Oh, I really want to come back to this." Maybe it's not entirely the fault of the record. Let's do a little bit of the backstory then. Prior to the Dead Voice forming, Johnny Blitz and Cheetah Chrome were playing in a band called Rocket from the Tunes, and this is considered a legendary proto-punk band. They also featured Dave Thomas of Pier Ooboo, lead singer of Pier Ooboo, and a huge influence on Rocket from the Crypt. Their name is definitely a direct reference to Rocket from the Tubes because they heard the bootlegs. They're one of those bands that didn't go in the studio and record any records before they broke up. They were a bootleg, rough recording band that people kind of passed around. They would kind of come back in the future, but it's a lot later. I think the 2000s when you get your first Rocket from the Tunes studio albums, just a lot of just rough, rough. It's like, what's the band from L.A. The Screamers? They're one of those bands that didn't have any real records. Everything was all bootlegs from them. Super influential though. But the story goes, Rocket from the Tunes are playing a show. Cheetah Chrome brings up Steve Bader's on the stage to sing some songs with the band, and then the rest of the band puts down their instruments and walks off stage and they break up that night. So I don't know exactly what was going on with them. That him just bringing someone else on stage was enough to just break the whole band up. Clearly, it just feels like a fuck you move, really. What's he doing here? We're done. I just can't imagine that. Are you fucking kidding me right now? And then just put down your shit and walk off. But also, why did you bring somebody else up to sing? I don't know. That's weird. So the members of the band decided, "Hey, let's start a new band." So they formed a group called Frankenstein. They record some demos in October 1975, and then they wind up just breaking up by the end of the year. They don't get along, they fight too much, and they're just like, I don't know. Probably a lot of the similar energy of Rocket from the Tunes. So Stiff Bader's winds up going to New York in 1976, and he gets called up on stage during a Johnny Thunders in the Heartbreakers performance as CBGBs. So I don't know what it is about Stiff Bader's that made people be like, get up here. You got to get up on this stage. This guy's crazy. Come on, Stiff. Come on and sing some heartbreaker songs with us. And so then after that, Joey Ramon winds up introducing Stiff to Hilly Crystal, who was the owner of CBGBs. And after some conversation, they managed to convince Hilly that Stiff had a band. They didn't have a band yet. So Cheetah Chrome tells a story about getting a call from Stiff Bader's, asking him to pick him up from the airport. And then when he gets there, one by one, each of the other members of Frankenstein, show up too. So Stiff had called everyone in the band and asked them all to come pick him up at the airport without telling each other that the rest of the band was also going to be there. So this is also that time period where you could just go to the airport and not be your flight. But he then encourages him like, hey, come with me back to New York. And, you know, we have a show booked. You know, let's go play a show. So the entire band, except for one, decides to. All right. Let's do it. Let's go to New York. Jeff Magnum, he's, he stays behind. Magnum, not to be confused with Jeff. Magnum. Very different. Yeah. Jeff Magnum is like, no, I'm not going to New York. He stays in Ohio. So they get to New York, you know, they play at CBGBs. Hilly likes what he sees. He becomes the band's manager and they become the dead boys. The dead boy's name does not happen until they get to New York and they play their first show. They became super famous for their live show. Steve is one of those lead singers in the Iggy Pop vein of things where he just takes his shirt off and goes crazy on stage. Something that I feel like Darby Crash also does very much. I really feel like the germs were very influenced by the dead boys in a lot of ways. They were frequent performers at CBGBs. Steve said that they, I think it was Steve said that they played CBGBs more than anybody because Hilly was their manager. And they could just always get on. They record a demo. This gets in front of Sire Records Seymour Stein. He likes the demo. He signs them. And so they go into the studio. They go in with Jynya Raven, aka Goldie. And she was the singer of the band's Goldie and the gingerbreads as well as 10 wheel drive. So she was like a singer more than anything. And she winds up being the producer on this. I think it's Blitz. He's like, I was shocked when he said that we're going to have a girl record our record. He's like, you know, as dumb as that sounds, it was a different time. She did a great job. And they go in a record. They don't have a bass player. At this time, Jeff didn't come with them from Ohio. So while he's credited as playing bass on this record, he does not play bass on this record at all. And it is Bob Clear Mountain, who was just like kind of like a session guy. He is a friend of Jynya. She asked him to play. And he also mixed the album. So he mixed it, you know, and was done with it and said, here you go. It's finished. And she wanted to remix it. And he was like, you're crazy. And then he got fired. She fired him because he refused to remix it. And so she brought in Harvey Goldberg, who was her boyfriend at the time. He remix the album. I wonder what Bob Clear Mountain, Bob Clear Mountain, you're very under-representing him. Oh, he's just some session guy. Producer, engineer, known for being the guy who mixed born in the USA. Worked with Rolling Stones, David Bowie, Roxy Music pretenders, Brian Adams. Done a lot. Very notable. I didn't look at his Discox page. So his version does get released in 1989. It's the younger, louder, snottier version of the album. So I don't think I've listened to that version. If you want to hear his version, his mix of the record, you can listen to it. It's louder. It's a lot louder. That's the main main difference. But I also wonder if that just got a remaster too. It could be. But yeah, so he, he, he's out. It gets remixed. So really at this point, this is not a record. You know, the dead boys go in the studio and they think we're recording our demo. We're going to record the demo. We're going to, you know, give it to them and they'll, the label and they'll, you know, listen to it and then we'll go back in the studio and we'll record the real thing. Well, apparently Seymour Stein liked it so much and decided it was cheaper to not record it again that he just released the demo as the record. So the band was like, wait, what? No, like they were like not ready for this to be their album. Like, oh, no, this is supposed to be a demo, like not, not happy with it. The label didn't want to take them off the road either. They were touring a lot too. So yeah, they, they wind up the demo is the record. At this point, Jeff is called back to New York and he does actually join them this time. He does become a member of the band and he does join them and they tour and he plays, you know, on the next record they do. And then yeah, they wound up touring England opening for the dam. They played like a bunch of shows around the US with Iggy Pop, the Ramones, the dictators and cheap trick. So that's, that's, that's the main kind of like story of getting to this record. [MUSIC] [APPLAUSE] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] And I guess maybe like, yeah, just, I had more matched expectations because I was, I would have been fairly fresh and a mind of being like, all right, it's a good record. Yeah, I mean, not, not as great as I remember it would have been my thoughts going into revisiting it for this record. So it was a little pure of a listen, I guess, this time. And also just like, I think maybe even if it's from a little bit fresher, you know, familiarity with the record. And that being said, like I still probably don't, I guess you still probably don't rate it that highly for the 77 punk records. Like, I guess I, I guess I would, I would probably reach for this record over certainly some pretty significant records, like never mind the bollocks. And even probably the first clash record. And I think maybe like the, the first clash record feels like a good, kind of like benchmark comparison for this record because I feel like both records maybe have similar flaws in terms of like production and maybe, maybe like the depth of quality of songs, because like the first clash record has a lot of great songs on it, but it also has just a lot of the songs that I'm like, I don't remember what that is at all. And I feel like the said boys records has a few songs that like, if I hadn't just listened to it this week, like if I were looking at the track listing, I'd be like, I don't know that. Like, and I guess I would say, I mean, it's, this record starts so strong that really carries it. And I think it ends pretty strong too. But yeah, the production is definitely rough. And I guess maybe like the difference between this and like the clash record is like the production, the rough production and mix of it works more in favor of this dad boys record than the clash record. Because that clash record, I've just never felt like sounded good. For me revisiting it, I, I, it was a little softer than I remembered it being. I definitely in my head had it as like this much rawer album and like harder sounding album from front to back. I definitely thought of it like, well, man, these guys are so ahead of their time. They're definitely doing more aggressive stuff than it's like, yeah, they were doing more aggressive stuff than a lot of the New York fans. But like the actual instrumentation isn't that much harder than most of the UK punk stuff happening at this time. Very similar style of like, you know, guitar and drums and that kind of stuff. I think the, the, the hard edge that I'm picking up on is mostly stiff beta's vocals. He has a really like rough voice, which if you look at, you know, the albums that came out in 77, nobody has a voice that sounds like stiff betters. Like everybody else is like really trying to sing on all their records, you know, some to more, you know, successful degrees than others. But like nobody is doing this like growly type of vocal and that to me, that definitely just comes from him trying to do his best Iggy pop, specifically the Stooges era version of Iggy pop. And like I said earlier, like I just think the Darby crash was like 100% trying to do what stiff betters was doing to maybe also being influenced by the Stooges, but just a growly chaotic live performance that you didn't have a ton of at this, this stage and becomes a really big influence on like hardcore in general. And so like to me revisiting it, I was like, all right, he still sounds really, you know, harsh compared to the, the contemporaries, but like really like focusing on what like the guitar work and stuff is going on, like, oh yeah, it's, it's not that different. It's not that hard of a sound. They play faster than a lot of other bands. I think it's another thing that kind of makes them stand apart, but I do think this album title is very, very indicative of like just the sound in general compared to everyone else in the CBGB scene. So yeah, the record was a little more nuanced than I remembered it being. And some stuff on here, I was like, I completely forgot that like I Sonic reducer. I remember incredible, huge song for this record, like one of the best punk songs of all time, incredible, incredible song, but I'd forgotten that I also had what love is on the, on the disc at one point, I was like, oh, that is a song really well. And I don't think I had any others, any other songs from this record. But yeah, I definitely, I definitely noticed more going on in here than what I recalled. You don't remember caught with your meat in your mouth, not with the meat in your mouth. Not really like, I recognized the song title, but I didn't really remember the song very well. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe all this and more. I might remember that one because it talks about, you know, the lyrics are just a dead boy. Yeah. Uh, which they also name drop themselves and down in flames as well. Yeah. Like I completely forgot there's just a live track in the middle of this record too. They do a live version of Hey, little girl, which is a cover of a syndicate of sound song. They recorded it at CBGB. So it was a little interesting to hear just like a random live track in the middle of this record. It sounds good for a live recording. Yeah, they did. They captured it really well. And it does sound, they sound live the way they do in the studio, which is kind of like refreshing here, I guess. It's like, Oh, there's no tricks here. Yeah. That's probably because it was a, they thought they were making a demo. Yeah. And I guess they just like put the live track on there, maybe the pad it, because it is a, yeah, it's like a 29 minute album. The live track really throws off the flow of the record though, because you hit a live track and it's just like listening to any old record now. When you start hearing live tracks, you're like, Oh, this is the bonus material. Yeah. And so it just kind of like takes you out mentally for a second. I was like, man, that was a really short record. And then I go look at the track, listen, I'm like, Oh no, that's just, there was just a random live song on there originally, and I like three more songs. There is a bonus track. There is. Not anymore slash ain't nothing to do, medley, which is two songs that are, are really around the record. Yeah. Yeah. Back to back on the record earlier. Yeah. There, there are bonus track on the, it's from the 92 CD reissue. And that's just the version. It's on Spotify. But the live track is was on the original record. So my guess is it's what a three minute track. The album is like 29 minutes without the bonus track on there. So yeah, more than likely they were like records too short, give, let's put a live song on there just to make it longer, which again, the band is like, we thought we were making a demo, you know, they, they said at the time they were like, Oh, that's kind of disappointing. You know, they, they thought it came out well for what it was, but not what they wanted initially, you know, for the record. And then for the next record, they really like, they did a full studio record and they brought in a producer who people were like, what the fuck, why are you using this guy? They used Felix Papalardi, who was the bassist in the band Mountain. And they were just like, why are you using this, this guy to do the record? And I think they were unhappy with how that one came out too. So it's just like, I think it's a case of nobody in a studio is going to quite, quite capture what they're like live. I have heard we have come for your children. And the second album, it's not as good as the first record. No, I listened to it this week too. It's fine though. Like, I don't think it's like bad or anything. It's just, yeah, it's not as good as the first record. It's fine. It just doesn't, well, it just, I mean, it really just doesn't have anything as memorable as like sonic producer or well, love is or all this and more even, you know, there's, they had apparently wanted to get James Williamson to record that record. Oh, to salvage the sessions is how they described it. So they brought, they tried to get him to come in later, but then they broke up before that happened. So that record has ain't it fun, which apparently got covered by Guns N' Roses. So they're another band that got a little bit of the extra bit of attention because they got covered a bunch by, you know, bigger bands kind of kept them alive in the, in the lexicon trying to see who the other covers were by. I don't know. I don't know, I still think it's a good record though. I really enjoyed this album like front to back. There's nothing on here that I was like, don't like that. Like there's nothing really that I, I'm sure some of the lyrics I would probably object to, but as far as like the actual music itself, I think it does fall off after you do the live song, like I just don't, you know, I need lunch, high tension wire down in flames. They're fine. They're good songs, but they're not standouts for the record to me. I really think the best, the first three tracks are the best songs on here, Sonic producer, all this and more and what love is. I do like not anymore. I like ain't got ain't nothing to do as well too because it's good kind of driving energy to it. That one feels a little glammy, like there's definitely a little glam rock going on there. This one would like the ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch ch in the, in the vocals too. And kind of what the meaning mouth is just silly and funny, but yeah. The Bader's has a solar record in 1980 that's pretty decent and a little glamier. Yeah. I mean, they were influenced by a lot of different stuff, but I think Iggy, Iggy, Bob and the Stooges being like the main thing that influenced them interesting. Dave Thomas from Pierre Oubu has a co-writing credit on the song, Sonic producer. So he apparently like helped write that song and it's with all the rest of the members of the dead boys. So it's not a record from the tombs song that they just repurposed. So I don't know, I guess they got along well enough that Dave helped out writing that song or maybe just gave him a line. You should use this line and then they used it and they gave him a writing credit in exchange for it. But that is, it's such a standout song though for this record. [Music] I don't need none of your bedroom room sleep house, and I don't need none of your small house. The album does wind up charting, it hits number 189 on the Billboard 200, which I am shocked that this album charted. I guess it's on Sire, so it's going to have good distribution. I feel like all that Sire stuff got it in a lot of places, so that's surprising to see. Hit number seven on the Rolling Stone 10 greatest punk album reader poll. I did find a couple reviews as well. All music has gave it a 4.5 out of 5 and says stone cold rock classic Sonic reducer starts things off amusingly with all sorts of phase drums and other fripperies that later generations wouldn't consider punk at all. That said, it's still blunt, brilliantly sung by betters and kicks out the jams with messy energy. Definitely has an MC5 feel to it as well, I think that's another influence on them. Well yeah, because if you're doing a Stooges wannabe band, then you're by extension doing an MC5 wannabe band, the Stooges was doing MC5 wannabe. Robert Criskel gave it a B and said despite Stivbader's mule, which can get almost as annoying as Getty Lee's falsetto, this is mostly well crafted junk, tough and tuneful and in one case, the definitively deafening sonic reducer, positively anthemic. But the charm of good junk has always been its innocence, and if these fellows are innocent, they're pretty perverse about it, emotional incompetence out of their deaths. Don't know where you go, why you go to Getty Lee as a comparison point? Well, it's contrast, not necessarily comparison. Yeah, yeah, he's just saying it's annoying if punk is the antithesis to progrock. Yeah, I don't know, the way it was written too, it was just like man, this is such writerly language than he threw in there too, it's Chris Gals, Chris Gals is weird, sometimes he's spot on, other times he's like, I feel like he's way off, even compared to like what rating he gave a record. It's like your written review is not matching your letter grade, why are you so negative in the body of the review, but you gave it like happy, weird writer. So okay, what is this, what is this records legacy to you? Do you think, what do you think people today think of this album? I, well, it's been unbolded, I don't know your music, if that's an indication of where it's going in terms of rating trend and appreciation. I think that ultimately it's a record that mostly people will acknowledge it or recommend it for what it is in the time period, like it's really hard for 77, it's really influential to bands that would follow kind of immediately after. And I think that's probably a fair assessment of it. And a fair enough legacy, like I think those are important notable qualities for a record. And it's one of those, it's like, well, it does this and this and it influenced these people. So it should be candidized to an extent. I think ultimately it's still pretty derivative in a way that kind of keeps it from being, oh, this is a stone cold classic. And I think just kind of like lacking in material, it kind of runs out of gas as a record. I'm trying. There's just not quite enough great material on here for it to stand completely on its own merit as like a, you know, a great, really enjoyable record with great songs, like it's to create really enjoyable record for what it represents. Yeah, I'm just trying to remember kind of like when I first learned about this record, what the reputation was for this record. And it, I remember it being a pretty well regarded album. I definitely recall it being considered ahead of its time. And I'd agree, it's definitely a little more inspiring to the next, you know, next wave of punk and hardcore in the US. But I guess at the, at the time I was getting into it, it would show up like you'd see it as like a staple in a record store, like every record store had a copy of it. You'd see it on lists all the time of like talking about punk records from the 70s or even just albums from the 70s, but it feels like it exists purely in a like a music critic or just like, you know, audio file types who just like, you know, read and talk about music online at all times. And it never really feels like it's an influence that carried past like that first wave of hardcore. The influence of the dead boys does not feel, I don't feel it today, like I don't listen to hardcore now and think, oh, they're doing dead boys, like I feel like they're never anything that your average punk and hardcore kid getting into the style would go back to find. Well, I don't know, I think there's, I think there's a degree to which the record continue to have an influence up into like the early 2000s on uncertain kinds of punk and hardcore bands. I mean, Lifetime has a song called Young Loud and Scotty, you know, to react nod to dead boys. And yeah, and that's definitely like those, you know, lifetime connected bands all feel like they borrow something from dead boys and just like punk bands of of their ilk unlike and hardcore from the 80s and that's the stuff that's really influential to the lifetime family tree. I feel like there's a little bit of the like the attitude of like snotiness and like extremity that is irrelevant to like the bands like dangers and ceremony. It feels like a record that would be familiar to a lot of those people then, but I think that's kind of the end of the line in terms of like it getting passed down because I don't think it's a record that like any of those bands are like, oh, dead boys, that's the band. Like that's the singular band that we're like, it's it's more like a an ancillary influence by that point on hardcore and punk. Yeah, I could see, yeah, I was just trying to think of like, what would your modern equivalence be and I don't really see much in modern punk and hardcore that isn't just borrowing isn't more influenced by like what came right before immediately before. I do think that last wave of we're fucked up, like really blew up like that time period might be your like your fucked ups, your hour of the wolves, your she ride, you know, yeah, all of your ludacs, yeah, all of your lead singer takes a shirt off and smashes the microphone into his forehead bands like, which they're probably doing more Darby crashed than they are doing Stiff Bader's, but it's there, which it's all like you pop is really what that is. All like you pop, right. Yeah, like your annihilation times like those kinds of bands where it's like the point of the band is to be a little sloppier and a little simpler, or you're doing Jesus, you know, they're doing Jesus lizard and Jesus lizard is doing, it is doing the stooges. Yeah, so much of it boils down to the stooges. Um, yeah, all the naked bands are all just doing the stooges. Yeah. Yeah, so it's like, I don't even know that it's necessarily the dead boys or the direct influence, or if it's just the mishmash of the stooges, the dead boys and the germs are like that influence. I think also we've gotten like, um, I guess I'm going to blame the woke mob, I guess like political correctness in punk has pushed away a lot of the dead boys are sleazy. It's, it's sleazy rock and roll, uh, we're dangerous and gross. And like we had that wave of like of bands doing that, I mean, though all the ones that you talked about, you know, I'm trying to think of, I'm trying to think of it's like in a staper tooth zombie. Yeah. That's right. I don't know if that's fair comparison, or even like piss jeans, like if you want to take the, you know, the, the Jesus lizard extrapolation, it's kind of happening around the same time period of people just being like, ah, we're going to do kind of like edgy and gross and dark and take our clothes off and, you know, and I think the last wave of that, which I don't know, we'll probably do for that. I mean, we've got hardcore bands throw in F slurs. So, you know, we're due for sloppy naked things again, um, cause that all goes in cycles. But I was going to say Solglow has a little bit of a naked band energy going on, which that was surprising when I saw that footage of like lead singer like naked basically and like just like covering up important bits. But it was just like, huh, Solglow is doing that. Oh, surprising. We're doing red hot chili peppers, weenie socks, does Damien Abrams still get naked on stage or is he over that? I think he stopped, he still tuck in his, I think he stopped doing the tuck and the drumsticks in the butt and I don't, I'm fine with that. I don't think we need it. I, is that what animal and the sniffers are doing? Yeah. Well, that's what, well, that was the point I was eventually going to get to was I think the Australian bands are like the closest thing to doing that, but that just feels like that's just Australians being Australian. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, musically, all of that goes back to radio Birdman, but you know, and the Saints like I, I mean, are we getting that in England too with like Chubby in the gang a little bit there? A little bit of that. The chisels doing UK 82 more than anything, but more Oi, so they're not really in that. But Chubby, yeah, I feel like he's doing that. I don't know what their live shows like, but yeah, you're right. You might be coming back that. I don't know that it'll be as like widespread as it was what the 2000s is probably the last time that wave was really big. So it probably won't be as widespread due to the changing, you know, of like, we don't want to see it. Yeah. We're in a post. Yeah. I mean, Gen Z is pretty perdish. Yeah. Put your, put your shirt back on. Punks, your Lauren measure crew post, Lauren measure people. Yeah. So there's room for it, but I also wonder if some of that's like, ooh, it might remind people too much of like the garage, rock sleaze stuff that happened a couple of years ago and like how that turned real gross and all those bands got canceled like the burger record stuff. Yeah. So we might not get a full, I think it'll be women who take it over. I do think ambulance nippers might be the right. Yeah. Which, which like, yeah, I mean, I don't outright hate it artistically. I guess I'll say that. I think that people like Iggy Pop and Lux Interior and, you know, David Yao and like they had, I think, I don't know, it's one of those things where it's like, well, you're naked now. Yeah. Yeah. There it is. Yeah. We've seen it. We've all seen nudity. So it's like, if you didn't have, if you don't have the shock effect of it, does it do anything? Does it say anything? And when everybody's doing it, it's like, all right, this is, this is just annoying. You're, I feel like you're trying to flaunt something more than you're, or yeah, you got something else going on that you're, you're really enjoying this part. Yeah. But GGL. It's the difference. Are you a David Yao or a GGL? Yeah. Yeah. It is slightly different. And it's how much of the, I think that that can be something that like, can still have a little bit of an impact that a performative, like a performance art kind of aspect when you are non men, or at least when you are like queer people, I think there can be something to say, but I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I do feel like it's like straight, straight men doing it. It's like, all right, y'all, y'all had your fun. Yeah. Which, I like to do anymore. And also like, it's like, it's really not that impressive. Like you're kind of safe doing it. Yeah. Right. Like you're not going to get gripped. Right. You're not going to have dumb guys in the audience interpret it as, oh, they want me. Yeah. Yeah. And you're not going to have homophobes go ew, you know, to the same degree as you would with a, you know, queer person. Yeah. I mean, they'll go ew because they're just like, I don't want to see it, but if they know you're a threat to them, you know, well, I want to get my ass kicked by that naked guy. I don't want Eugene Robinson to come kick my ass, you know, the guy famous for getting naked and fighting people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I guess, I don't know, the influence of the dead boys feels like a thing that's not really a big point of interest for a ton of modern hardcore bands and punk bands. I don't know. I'd be curious to see, you know, who, like, okay, what sonic reducer appears in the Tony Hawk game. I feel like it should have already manifested itself if it was going to become an influence again in the bands in the 2010s. And I think 2010s is when all of that kind of stuff stopped being influenced by that kind of stuff. So yeah, it's interesting. I do wonder, I do wonder what like the fresh punks are getting into now, like, is this a record that's on that list of like required listings when you're, when you're working through the early days of punk music, it could be, but I don't know that there's necessarily that many kids who when they first are getting into punk now, start listening to stuff from the 70s. Like, I don't think that's a big thing anymore. Not really. Like, I don't think maybe the clash feels pretty essential. Yeah. Just maybe some of the biggest stuff that I don't, I don't see the kids go into drain and scowl shows being in and military gun shows being like, Oh, let me go back and listen to wire and well, okay, I see the post-punk kids probably would. Well, the post-punk kids, but that's a whole other world. All those people aren't gonna, yeah. And I guess like that what you used to call it, what like phaser punk stuff, but even that though, that felt like older people playing that music, that didn't feel like kids playing, you know, that kind of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know what people think of them now. I don't know. Maybe I would love to get some now I want one of those YouTube videos where they like play songs for kids and they react to them and I was like, slip in this son of producers, see what they think, you know. It's a genuinely great song, but I don't know if that's just, my brain is now wired to think that because I heard it early enough, you know, at my age or if it's going to have the same appeal now, you know, and it could be that people just go into the Stooges, like the Stooges does feel like a band that people are, you know, young people are still discovering. Maybe not in the numbers it used to be, but yeah, it's interesting. Yeah. I do think it's a good record though. I really think it's really fun and it does feel unique from a lot of their contemporaries at the time. And again, something to be said for coming from Ohio and not being part of like the initial New York scene is a different flavor of things. Yeah. There's probably just ultimately too much that they're pulling from like glam rock just immediately before it. Mm hmm. Yeah. It's an interesting record in the way that it is a bridge between glam rock and hardcore. Mm hmm. Because it's not, that's not a, that's not almost like it's skipping something in the middle to do that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You don't have anything like that. And, you know, and I guess ultimately like maybe that's where death rock comes from. But yeah. I mean, well, Lord's the New Church for sure. I mean, that's a lot of different people with stiff and I was like, oh, they're from Ohio. They put them in with like the other Ohio bands and I was like, but not really. You're not really anything like Devo or, you know, the waitresses or any of that kind of stuff. Like they're not from Akron. They're from Cleveland, which makes, oh, Cleveland integrity. That makes sense though. Okay. That actually, wow. Okay. There's something in the water in Cleveland that makes people. Yeah. Right. Because these are like nine shocks terrors from there too, you know, yeah, that actually makes more sense. Wow. I just made that connection right because I do see, I do see some dead boys in integrity. Like it's, it's that chaos that unhinged side. Yeah. That actually, okay. There it is. That's the connection then. And then integrity just became more influential in their own right. Yeah. And it does, it does make sense with like the other like Cleveland fans, like who else? I can see nine shock terrors being influenced by dead boys. Who's another? Are they one of those? What does the current Cleveland punk scene look like? I don't know. Ambag. I don't know. Slug. Uh, the pagans, that's who's a more current. No, well, the pagans were, uh, they were an older man. They were 77. Mm. 77 to 79. They would have been contemporaries with the dead boys in Pirubu. Yeah. And you think about Pirubu too being from Cleveland too. So it's a little, it's a weirdo city is really kind of what we're getting, especially specifically punk and hardcore. It tends to create weirdos. So you're right, those feel like there's something in the water. I don't know what Cleveland is thought of like art, what, you know, artistically, like what do people think of what is the art scene of Cleveland like? The Rockwell Hall of Fame is there. And God, every single article I ever read about this dead boy about the dead boys, every article was like, they're not getting into the Rockwell Hall of Fame. And it's like, no shit, but it's just like how every article came with the same hacky come. Well, this is the only thing Cleveland's known for is the Rockwell Hall of Fame. So we have to mention it in any article about this band. Yeah. And the feeling where they're getting in is through the front door, not the artist entrance. It's like, okay, you don't have to be rude, you know, Cleveland rocks, but we didn't expect it to rock this hard. You won't hear the dead boys on any episodes of the Drew Carey show anytime soon. I don't really know what's going on in Cleveland currently. Like, I don't know. Oh, cloud. Nothing's are apparently from Cleveland, but that doesn't, yeah, that doesn't track pleasure leftist. But that's like a nine shock terror post project. Some bands I don't know. Yeah, I don't know, Cleveland does not seem to be a hotbed right now. But yeah. Okay. Well, that actually makes a lot more sense to me now. Yeah, dead boys influences just more of who they influenced, became a bigger influence than they were themselves because they're doing the stitches, really. So they follow this record up with, we have come for your children in 1978, and then they break up in 1980. They do release a live record just for contractual obligation reasons. They reunite briefly in 1986, Cheetah Chrome goes on to do some solo albums. He apparently plays in the Jeff Dahl group at one point. Steve Bader goes on to perform solo and then forms the Lords of the New Church in England. He passes away in 1990 after getting hit by a cab. So he died a couple days later, it was like complications. The band did reunite again in 2004 and 2005. And then in 2017, Cheetah Chrome winds up, reuniting the band with Johnny Blitz, and they re-record the record as still snotty, young laden snotty at 40. That comes out in 2017. They play some shows, they get a singer who sounds just like Steve Bader's because apparently he was in a dead boy's cover band, and Chrome's wife saw footage and was like, "Look at this guy," and like showed it to him, and he's like, "Hmm, I can do something with this guy," because he said for years, you know, when he played, because he would play in bands and stuff, and he would play dead boy songs, and he's like, "I'm the one who sang them because I never heard anyone else sound like Steve," and like, "I didn't want anyone else to do it because nobody sounded like him, and so I just did it myself." Not that he sounded like him, but just more of this, like, "I don't want anyone else to do it," and this guy, he thought, was just that good that he had him do it, and yeah, this is one of those bands that like, they have so many records, but it's like only two studio albums. Everything else is like, three issues and archivals and, you know, different live records. They, like I said, '89, they issued the Bob Clear Mountain mix of the album, it's louder, it's the main thing. The vocals are higher in the mix on the actual original album version, what else do they have? There's the re-recorded one, 2017, they have a bunch of live records, '81, '87, '93, '97, '98, 2002, they just keep finding footage or live recordings and putting them out compilations. There's like one comp from this year in 2024, Ignorance and Action, the Rarities, so it looks like some 12-inch singles, Kirk Yano sessions, live at Kansas, Max's Kansas City, so it's a little bit of just a bunch of random Rarities stuff, so yeah. It does feel like this record has been mined plenty of times. I think we've, it's been looked at enough. We've got remasters of this record, we've got the '89 original mix as we've got whole re-recorded albums and stuff, so this record is their legacy. It's the album that defines them because the follow-up, it just wasn't that well received, didn't sell that well, they didn't like it as much, and it was only done a year later, which is probably part of the problem, but yeah, interesting, interesting record. You want to give it a rating? Sure. I have rated it as like a 3.5, I could probably give it like a 3.75. I've got it at a 4.0, I think it's, it's good, I think it's really fun, I, it probably has a 4, more due to the context of when it was released, that's kind of how I, I think of it. Yeah, I give it just a straight, a straight 4.0, but yeah, I like it, I, I've liked it for a long time and was happy to enjoy it again when I revisited it, so. And appreciate it a little bit more now knowing more of like the story and everything, especially it being a demo. Like, I guess we didn't really talk much about that. For a demo, this is pretty great, especially like the way demos, I mean, it's a studio demo, but still, it's for demo, it's excellent, like top demos, you know. All right, well, I think that will do it for us, so thank you all so much for listening. You can follow us on all forms of social media @punklotopod, pretty more, more active on blue skies than I have been in a long time. So it does seem like blue skies finally taking over, I guess, or it's becoming more popular and actually being actively used. So we still have our Twitter, but I'm not really posting outside of here it is. Here's the link for this week's episode. That's kind of it. I'm like that with threads too, threads is weird and not fun, but yeah, yeah, I do not touch threads. I don't have it on my phone anymore. Yeah, and then Punklotopod and then patreon.com/punklotopod, our voicemail line 202 688punk and our email address @punklotopod at gmail.com, so thank you all so much and we will talk to you next time.
Justin was assigned the year 1977 and selected The Dead Boys debut album, Young, Loud and Snotty.
