The Real Estate Podcast

Title Insurance: Why It Matters for Homeowners and Buyers! | The Real Estate Podcast EP315

In this episode, we dive into the world of title insurance—what it is, why it's essential, and how it protects homeowners and buyers from unexpected issues like liens, property encroachments, and outstanding taxes. Our special guest, Sameera Malik, a seasoned expert with 10 years of experience in title insurance, shares real-life scenarios and practical advice for anyone navigating property transactions.

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0:17 – Intro

1:55 – The origin story of Sameera Malik

11:07 – What title insurance is

17:46 – Real-life examples

21:06 – Case Study: Resolving Outstanding Property Taxes

30:35 – Fraudulent cases

37:57 – Increase Policy Amount (IPA)

41:17 – Who can purchase title insurance?

43:23 – Senior citizens are targeted by fraudsters

57:53 – Outro/recap

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In 2011, Ariel Kormendy and Adrian Trott formed The Kormendy Trott Team, now often referred to as KT (thanks to our logo!). The foundation of KT is built on providing unmatched value and attention to detail in everything we do. From our ever-expanding, comprehensive list of exclusive services to our expertly trained team, you will receive the highest level of care throughout your entire real estate journey.

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Originally a team of two in Milton, Ontario, the KT Team has grown into a large team of exceptional REALTORS®, a client-care department, and now includes KT media, KT Commercial and KT Property Management to provide our clients with a complete lineup of genuine, professional, and proven services across Halton Region, Peel Region and the surrounding Regions within the Greater Toronto Area.

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Duration:: 50m
Broadcast on:: 25 Nov 2024
Audio Format:: other

Let's say you moved into the house and then you get a bill. There's outstanding taxes for the past five years, right? We've sent taxes as high as $69,000. Or let's say you bought a house and you're so excited. You move in, somebody knocks at your door and say, who are you? This is my house. Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Real Estate Podcast. I'm Adrian Trott. And today we've got a special guest from your malloc from the Chicago Title Insurance Company, answering all your questions about title insurance. Enjoy. Welcome to the Real Estate Podcast, your go-to source for raw, unfiltered stories and expert tips. Whether you're a buyer, seller, tenant, landlord or realtor, join us as we dive into the world of real estate. Good morning, Samira. Good morning. I'm usually sitting across from your houses. It's a little bit different for me. It's kind of nice to have a change of face. Oh, I'm glad. So today, for those listening or watching the podcast, we've got Samira Malek here. Samira is the senior regional director for Chicago Title Insurance Company. That's correct. And Samira is also an excellent client and friend of ours. When did we sell your house? I was trying to remember that. Oh, my God. It was 2017. Okay. That was right in the peak of the market, I think. Or just as it was starting to come down, maybe. No, it was down. It was already down. It was down. It was a very short window of time where you caught it or you caught the tail end of it. Yes. I remember that time. We unfortunately caught the end part of it. Yeah. Yeah, we've stayed in touch and we've had a great relationship now. So with both you and Tarek, your husband. Yes. So thanks for joining us today. So I didn't give you the heads up on this part. But whenever we have a guest, we always like to ask them for kind of what we refer to as your origin story. Okay. Not necessarily industry or work related, but just give the audience a rundown on who you are, like from where you were born to what brought you to where you are today. You know, that question is so complicated, especially when someone asks me, where are you from? I'm like, I don't know how to answer that question. So I was actually born in Kuwait. Okay. My parents are Pakistani, but I grew up in Middle East and I had never been to Pakistan till the Gulf War broke out. And that's when I first was introduced to Pakistan. And then we went back. We went to Pakistan and then we went back and then we moved to the U.S. And then I think in 2003, I moved to Canada. Okay. And I've been here since then. So did you have family in Canada? Yes, my older brother lived here. And was that one of the reasons for the move? Yes, well, so I lived in Florida all my life pretty much. I live in a desert climate and a hot climate. I just came to Toronto and I fell in love with it. And I like the diversity. I like it. You have people from different parts of the world. Yeah. And it's exciting to meet people who come from different backgrounds, different stories, right? So that's what got me excited. And of course, it was much easier when you have a family here to move. So, yeah. And then had you been exposed to a traditional winter in Ontario yet before you moved? Yeah. Did you go through a winter? No. Okay. So you moved and then experienced winter. So I have to tell you something. I love winter and I couldn't wait to see winter like a snow, like a snowy day or like it was just like the movies you want to see that snow fall on you. So it was on my birthday. I remember November 28 that it was the first time I saw snow. Oh, wow. In 2000. That's impressive. You remember? Yeah, because it was an experience for me because I was waiting for that snow fall. So I appreciated it. I don't mind it so much. But I think now that I've been here for a long time, it gets to me sometimes, especially the traffic. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So now, and it's not beautiful if you're driving. It can be. Well, see that? It can be. Yes. Yeah. I mean, it's funny because for me, I actually really enjoy driving in the snow. Oh my God. Yeah. It's the weirdest thing. But mainly, I think a big part of that is because usually there's fewer cars on the road. But I don't know. Something about it I enjoy. You find cars, there's less cars on the road. I guess, yes. In a way, some people, if they plan it, they will go less on the road. Yeah. Like if it's a bigger snowstorm. Right. Then yes, you're right. But you know what? I can't blame when it's snowing and you're sitting it and looking outside and having a cup of tea. That I still enjoy that. I think, and I'm very lucky. We get four seasons, right? Yeah. We don't, I never had that. Like I had either cold or hot. Never had something. One, one was cold. Okay. A cold was maybe zero degrees. Okay. That's cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But nothing less than maybe minus one. Right. In Florida too, like I never owned a winter jacket. Yeah. So it was definitely an experience. But my kids love it and I make sure they enjoy the winter sports. So I think that's the key. Yeah. You have to get into a winter sport. I have that conversation with Ariel because Ariel hates the winter. Okay. And I love it. For many of the reasons you're saying. And also I've, I've always, for the longest time I've been an avid snowboarder. Oh, wow. And living in Milton, we have Glenied and I'll be at a very small hill. Yes. It's 10-minute drive. Yes. So my wife who I've also gotten into snowboarding and our kids are in lessons. You know, the four of us get a season's pass and usually twice a week during the winter, I'll go there at eight o'clock in the morning when they open. I think it's now 8.30 and I'll go for an hour and then I'll come into the office. That's amazing. It's a ton of fun. It's a great benefit to living so close to something like that. Yeah. And one of the things we are big advocates of, our company is encouraging people to explore where they live. Yeah. Local businesses, support local businesses and all the different amenities. So stuff like that is something I always push people to try. 100%. But that's amazing you do that. I think a lot of people shy away from snowboarding. So we got our daughters to try it out at a young age. They didn't like it as much because they fell a lot. That happens. But now they have learned skiing. Oh good. And they do tell me that they agree that it was better to do the snowboarding first because it's tougher. Okay. And skiing is easier. Interesting. So it's actually good that you're doing that with your kids because it's easier to pick up skiing lessons than it is snowboarding because it's different techniques. It was interesting you said that because our girls are both one more than the other. Tessa the older one is getting a bit frustrated with it. I think if she wants, she has a friend who skis. Okay. And her friend has never snowboarded. But she skis quite well. And so Tessa's getting frustrated because she's struggling a bit and finding challenging. But she's making a lot of progress at the same time. So she's been like, no, I want to change the skiing. I want to change the skiing. And we're pushing her to keep doing it. At least get to a point where you're very comfortable and if you want to change then, then by all means. I think you're doing and that's a great idea because once this switch. Never go back. Yeah, because it's easier. Well, I've never skied so I have no idea. Okay. So you're going to pick it up really quick. Yeah. Yeah. You're going to pick it up. I've been tempted to try because there's times when on larger hills in Alicia and I have been out west and we go to Louise and Bampf and go to the various mountains. And when you're on a long stretch of flat surface, if you don't have the speed, I've had several skiers hand me their pole to pull me along. It's your diary. Yeah, you run out of momentum and you're done on the snowboard. It's always interesting just going back to you moving to Canada. It's always interesting to hear what causes people to move. What are your reasons, your motivations for moving? And we get asked all the time, like, I'll have buyers ask me, oh, can you find out why the sellers are moving? And, you know, most of the time we don't get a clear answer. It could be one of many reasons. But also nowadays we're finding, I would say more people leaving the country. Yeah. Then moving to the country. Although there's been a lot of claims recently, especially a lot of famous people saying if Trump gets elected, we're leaving, so maybe we'll see it change, who knows. So how long have you been in title insurance? I've been almost 10 years. This is going to be my 10th year. Okay. Yeah, it's been an interesting journey. So my background is in lending. I've always been in banking side of things, giving out money or considering the risk for the bank. So this was very different for me. But my boss liked me and gave me a chance to get into title insurance. So I had to kind of learn from scratch, get my way up, work my way up. And it's been exciting. And you know what? I was so excited to this when you, I think we were talking about it too, right? For a while, yeah. Yeah, we've been talking about it. And I was so excited because as just a consumer, you buy houses, you sell your house, but you don't know what's involved, right? It's the lawyer who's involved or the realtor probably knows a little bit more. But if you think about it as a client, as being your client, I had no idea what title insurance was till I got into the industry. And I learned and I was like, oh my God, I did not know that. And there's a lot of misconception too. And we'll talk about that too. Yeah, it was coincidentally because we were talking about having you on for a while now, but coincidentally this year, I've had several conversations about it, mainly surrounding people asking if I thought something would be covered under that title insurance. And I obviously didn't know, so I just direct them to their lawyer. It's the safest thing to do as a realtor. Yeah, speak with their lawyer. Put the liability on the lawyer. But in conversation with you, it's interesting to hear some of the case studies where people can get a true understanding for how people have been able to benefit from it. Yes. And what's not covered. And the other part of it is is it mandatory? How long does the coverage last for? How much does it cost? All of these things, I think a lot of people are unaware of. So where do you want to start? So you've asked a lot of great questions. I'm going to try to address as much as I can, because I think it's also important to know where title insurance came from. What was the idea behind it? So I'm going to try to make it as fun as possible, so I don't bore you. I was saying this earlier, is that if you can make title insurance exciting, then you win, you've accomplished it. So I'm going to start with, what is title insurance? And I want to put you in a situation where you're buying a house and you moved in, and then you find out, oh, my house doesn't comply with the municipality's requirements. House carries that, right? Now you have this issue and you don't know what to do with it. Or let's say you moved into the house and then you get a bill. There's outstanding taxes for the past five years, right? We've sent taxes as high as $69,000. And you know what the sad part is? People don't have $69,000 sitting around first. But I think the impact is, oh, my God, I'm not responsible for this. I just moved in, but now you have to dish out that money, right? Or let's say you bought a house and you're so excited. And you've probably been hearing this a lot, right? You bought a house, you move in, somebody knocks at your door and say, "Who are you? This is my house." I've heard, I think it was last year or the year before. There was a couple of those instances in Toronto. Yes, and I'm going to, I have to tell you, it is a very scary thought. We've had people calling us crying, let somebody's in their house. Yeah. And it's devastating, right? Like it's devastating. I can see myself, you know, you've worked really hard. Let's be honest, a lot of people save money for their first home, especially immigrants, right? Like they're saving. This is a huge investment. They bought their house. For most people, it's their retirement, right? Because you're absolutely right. I know many people who have virtually no savings and all of their monies in their house. And when they retire, they'll sell and rent or do like a reverse mortgage or something. So to lose that would be devastating. Absolutely. And I've seen many situations where clients have lost their homes. But the good news is that's where title insurance come in, right? And that's where title insurance will help the clients out. So I'm going to kind of go back into how title insurance started. So title insurance really came into the market because lawyers had to do a lot of due diligence and sometimes would have to require surveys to review everything. And that takes not only a lot of time, but it's very expensive. Then you also have lawyers who are giving their opinions. Opinion on a title can be very expensive. Six to six thousands, the least I've seen, but it can go up 20 grand, right? That's a lot of money as well. So title insurance came in and simplified the process. And for a small fee, the client pays, we just ask things like make sure the searches are clean, make sure the property is clear, right? And the lawyer does a much simplified process of clarifying things for the title and then they get title insurance. So what is title insurance? Title insurance is a contract between the insured and the insurance company. And it covers things title issues related. So only related to the title, the owners of the property. There's a little bit of that misconception that, oh, if my basement's flooded, there's coverage, well, it is title related. So we want to protect your title defects. For example, if you moved into the house and like I mentioned earlier, there's about five years of taxes outstanding, right? So the municipality will potentially put a lien if you don't pay that out, right? So now you're going to have a defective title. So that's where title insurance will kind of give you that piece of mind saying, okay, we'll take care of it if you were not aware of it. And we tried to do our best to make the lawyers also feel comfortable that, hey, this is, and I think now, I think you mentioned earlier, to is it mandatory? I think lenders are making it mandatory because this is a part of, this is something that they want to ensure interest. Yes. That was always my understanding is if you have a mortgage on it, you have to get title insurance. Yes. So title insurance has two parts. One is for the owner and one is for the lender. The owner gets 36 covered risk, which is what it means is that we have a list of things indicated on what you will be protected. And this is something any client can review their title insurance and see what it is. It's not, it's very clear what the protection is and the lender also has protection. Now, I think it is really important as well. Let's say there is no mortgage because you hit that note there, a lawyer. You should still have title insurance. Right. And the question is I get from a lot of senior citizens because I work with a lot of lawyers and they tell me, well, they're retiring. They want to save every penny. And I'm like, it is not worth it to not have title insurance. Because what if somebody, and this is the other thing, right? People say, oh, well, my house is worth $2 million, but I have a line of credit. Okay. But the lender is only protecting their part of the, if you have like a 500,000 line of credit. So you have title insurance on the 500,000. Right. What about the 1.5? Is it worth it? Like it's the biggest investment in your life. Get title insurance. So I had a, somebody I know that bought land. And they after closing later found that the neighbor's septic bed was encroaching on their property. Oh my God. Okay. They subsequently sold it to the neighbor. So it was fine. Yeah. They said, well, we, this affects what we wanted to do with the property. Yeah. So the route they went was they were able to sell it to the neighbor, make a small profit and move on. Yeah. It's something like that. And I know some, you may have to be vague with your answers. But would something like that be, that would affect the title or would that be more? So I'm assuming there was survey done. Something was done to determine that it was afterwards. Afterwards, right? Yes, like when they went to start the process to build. Yeah. So it is case by case claims are based on factuals. So they would review it. They would see. So encroachment is part of the coverage. Okay. So if you have, we've been in situations where a neighbor's shed was actually, no, this client's shed was on the neighboring property. Oh, okay. And it was come to our attention that this belongs to me. The neighbor's not happy about it. And I don't know what to do. So we, so this couple of things we would do. We try to negotiate with a neighbor. See how the neighbor would feel about selling us that part of the land. Right. Or we would move it and then we would cover whatever the cost is. I don't have the numbers. Yeah. But we have done some scenarios. Yes. Yeah. That makes sense. We, I mean, in the end, we're trying to help out the client because he didn't know that his shed was on the neighboring property. Right. So is there no, because in, in most cases. Yeah. There, at least with a lot of the real estate that we're involved in. Yeah. It's unlikely to have a survey. Yes. And certainly an updated survey. Yes. So is, is there no requirement for, I'm trying to think like the, the buyer, what responsibility do they have to do their due diligence prior to purchasing it to mitigate any of these problems or, or is that just part of the insurance? Is that we recognize, as long as, you know, the information the lawyer has at closing is sufficient for you to apply the policy. So according to title insurance for a Chicago title, we, we don't require you to have a survey. Okay. There's, it's not mandated. But if you have a builder transaction, you know, most likely to have a survey, right? Okay. The service become more hazy when it's really old, and especially 20 years old property you're buying, right? Yeah. Then they become a questionable. Can you give me an example? Unless you have a particular order, you want to go in here. Okay. Can you give us an example of a scenario, a case where somebody benefited from having the policy? Yes. So for that, I made sure I have something in writing, so I don't give you the wrong numbers. Yeah. So we have, so I want to talk about, I mentioned earlier, the municipality taxes. So imagine if you move in, and then you find out there's about $15,000 of taxes outstanding. Yeah. So you would file a claim with Chicago title, and then we would take care of the claim. And then the client doesn't have to worry about a lien on their property. And I think this was, if I'm not wrong, it was. So what happened, it was about $14,459.97 where a client moved in and found out that there were taxes outstanding for the past three years. I wonder how, though, the lawyer misses that, because they're doing adjustments at closing for taxes, or part of that. So I wonder how they would miss that. So the way it works is that lawyers know that title insurance is going to give them that support. So it's kind of sad, but they sometimes believe they're clients, and they get the numbers from them, but they could be many snares. They could be situations where the client was negligent, wasn't clear on how much they paid, or provided copies of what they paid, but it was for two years ago. They might have been behind, and the lawyer says, okay, this makes sense. Or maybe it's fraudulent. It could be exactly, it could be that, too. Or it could be a situation where there's been reassessed, and then the client did not know that. I remember I actually was in a situation where I bought a house, and I sold it after a year. There were taxes reassessed, and there were about $3,000 taxes outstanding. And I did not believe that was my part, because I didn't get notified by the city. Was this a new construction? Yes, it was a property in Mississauga, and then the lawyer called me and explained to me. He said, oh, you paid in so-and-so, but in 2000, so this was outstanding, got reassessed in June. You sold it in June 30th, but it got reassessed on June 1st. So this goes back dated a little bit, and I said, okay, it makes sense, and I paid it. But yeah, so it could be many reasons. It's just not necessarily someone being conniving or something. Yeah, yeah. But most of our lawyers now, especially in the Peel region, I find that a lot of lawyers are starting because the taxes are much higher than Halton. And I find that they have now started asking directly to the municipality for tax certificate. And there's a cost associated with that, but they find that it is much easier to resolve the situation on an earlier basis than afterwards. And this is specifically helpful on commercial transactions, because in commercial, it can be much higher, and you want to make sure everything is up to date. And also, the way we look at it is this, as a lawyer, your lawyer is trying to do everything possible to protect their clients, to make the deal go smooth, right? Maybe somebody may not want to buy it if they find out, oh, you know what, there's like 69,000. This guy better pay me up first before I get the property, right? So now lawyers have started doing that. That's good. Yeah. And we're big on all of that. Those due diligence steps as well in our process, like, specifically for property taxes, I'll always require a copy of the most recent property tax bills, not just taking the client's word for it. And a lot of real estate agents are bad for that, but also for square footage, where the last client, oh, how many square feet have so 2,000? And they rate 2,000 per homeowner instead of measuring it, you know. You are pretty, I remember you are very diligent in your work. And that's one thing I like working with you is you kind of did your homework. You did not assume things. Yeah, well, thank you. Yeah, I really like that about you. Another thing about what I want to tell you is also that even if the Lord does is due diligence, right, calling the municipality. And this has happened where they've called everything. Things have happened. The system did not update it. Everyone was being honest. It just got missed, right? But now you as a client, you have title insurance to protect you in case that does happen to you and you don't have to dish out that money. Right. So I want you to be also aware that that's one of the main reasons why you should be getting title insurance is just the uncertainty or unknown of what could happen. You mentioned encroachment, right? We had another situation where somebody moved into the house really excited. And within a year, they got notification from the municipality that the garage did not comply with the setback. So they have somebody must have complained. Possibly. Usually how it happens. I like how you caught on to that. And you know what? You want to take a guess how much that cost? Well, what on earth could they do? They probably didn't move the garage or they just reassess how it affected the property. They had to remove a part of the garage. Yeah. How much was it? You want to take a guess? How big was the garage? Oh, I don't know. Not your reality. You're so detailed. You have all these notes right down to the penny. All right. I'm going to guess. I'm going to guess as a detached garage, or you don't even know. It must have been, obviously. It probably was a detached. It has to be detached because otherwise you have to move the whole structure. No, that's why it was a stupid question, OK? That's OK. I'm thinking on the spot here. 20, 30. I was going to say 50. It was $131,000. Oh my goodness. So I have the exact number. That probably costs more than it costs to build the garage. Possibly. But when you have to rearrange things. That's nuts. And then you have to get. I guess there's a lot of components that could affect. Yeah. Yeah. There's $131,000 and about $977 for the appraisal. So yeah. But you know what? It's just nice for you to be aware that things like that can happen. Yeah. Right. I have so many stories. Like I have stories where somebody moved in and the garage was not. I don't know what the word is, where it wasn't. You know how it's supposed to be a little bit elevated? So the water, it wasn't. And it caused flooding for these poor people who moved in. But that wouldn't be title insurance. It was a title insurance because the clients didn't know. Interesting. It was not done properly. So it was rebuilt incorrectly. Was it permitted? It couldn't have been. They were. So from what I remember is that they rebuilt it. Proper permits. They were outstanding permits. So the clients did not know that. So we kind of stepped in and helped them out. And that was a huge, I remember that was like close to 300,000 dollars. Yeah. Yeah. That was a huge issue for the poor clients. So things happen that you don't even think of. Yeah. Well, there's there's so many cases where there's work done that's not been permitted. It had. And you know, we've had several podcasts on the topic of permits. And we always encourage people to get them. Yes. It slows the process down a little bit. But the cost is usually minimal. And the only reason really I think somebody might avoid getting permits is because one, they know it's not going to comply. Or two, they're in a big rush. And they want to go through the added steps of having inspections and whatnot. So, you know, during COVID, it was taking forever to get permits. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And guess what? We were looking to do our deck. And my husband was like, oh, you know, we'll get it approved after. I was like, no, we got to do that. Because I don't want to be stuck with an issue. Well, even for resale value, if you can say these things are permitted, it adds value to the house. Yes. A lot of that. And you could, with certain things, basements and certainly basement apartments. If it's not permitted, not only does it do lose value, but it could turn people off completely. And they just won't even consider it. Yes. And I think you were helping me. We were looking at a house. They had it fully done. And we were asking about permits. I hope. Yeah. And I think you said we're going to find out if there were permits. And I think there was one still pending. And I was like, oh, I don't want it. It was just one. And you were trying to make me feel comfortable. We were like, OK, well, let's see what happens. And I was like, I don't want it. Yeah. Yeah. We've had several transactions where there's outstanding permits, but it was a condition of the purchase where they had to close the permits before closing. Yes. So. Yeah. It is just one of those things when you're in the industry, you see so much happening. Yeah. It is definitely something resolvable, like you said, based on condition. You will get the permit clarity eventually, as long as it complies with the requirements. Yes. Yeah. Can you tell us a story about the fraudulent sale? Oh, my God. So let me tell you something. Fraud is on the rise since COVID. As you know, everything went virtual. And I want to give you a little bit of a story telling here a little bit. We started seeing, I think we had two cases of fraud. So I've been with Chicago about nine years. So we saw a fraud case, one or two cases, right? And it's like, okay. And the nine years. And the nine, well, prior to COVID. Okay. And then all of a sudden COVID happened. And then the cases just started rising on fraud. And we started seeing applicants coming in and we're looking at title interns. And we're like, this does not make sense. So it tremendously increased. So what has happened in the market is people will impersonate. Okay. They will pretend I'm you. You can come and you know me, right? Not that I'm saying you're doing this. But you know me, you know where I live. You know, I'm away for a month. So what do you do? You're like, Samira's gone for a month. I need to create IDs. It'll be hard for you to be Samira. But but but you create fake IDs. Yeah. Right. You go to a realtor. You would say, I want to sell this house really quickly. It's an emergency. But how do I get in? You you get key. Okay. I know where you keep your keys, maybe. Or or or I you rent it out to me or you I'm a property manager. I'm not saying property managers, but you find ways to get access, right? Sometimes you're passing by and you see someone entering the digital code. You have access to that property, right? These fraudsters are remember they have been working on it. Yeah. Oh, there's lots of ways you break the window and then get in, change the logs, go through the backyard. There's many ways of doing it. So I'll talk about a specific case and that will probably make sense. So in this situation, what happened is the homeowners were away. They were actually working in another country and they wanted to rent out the place. Okay. So they hired a realtor. They said, can you please get us a tenant? The tenants came on board. They were perfect. It's a one year agreement. They were in they were in Europe somewhere. Within a few months down the road, they stopped paying the rent. So the property manager went and said, knocking at the door, like, what's going on? Nobody was opening the door. Like, we don't know what's going on. Then, you know, the property manager follow up. He gets to go inside the house. Does somebody let them in? It takes pictures. He comes out and he sends it to the owner. And the owner is like, this is not my property. He's like, no, this is your property. This is the number. He goes back again. He's like, no, this is your property. So what happened is the tenants were fake. This was a big case. It was, uh, it was also on news and everything. They got into the house. They sold the property within 30 days. Oh, wow. Yeah. They sold the property within 30 days. And you know, what's the saddest part about this? The new homeowners renovated the house. Oh my goodness. They spent another, I think, four to $600,000 to renovate the house. So this was probably, oh, that's why they didn't recognize it. That's it. All in that short period of time. All, I guess, two, three months had gone by. Yeah. Right. And they renovated the house. And, um, it was actually really sad. And these people were like, that's our house. And these new homeowners are like, that is our house. Yeah. Right. So what was the outcome? So, uh, I guess so the, who had the title insurance? So the title insurance was with us. No, but I mean the, so this was title insurance that the new buyers had. So, so that's a very good question. Okay. So the, in Ontario, I could be wrong, but the law says that the property goes back to the original owners. Okay. Unless you've renovated it. Well, even if you're renovated, unfortunately, I, I could be wrong, but I think even if you have renovated it, it goes back to the original buyers. Okay. So in this case, what, um, so what they had, so it says here, they use fraudulent bank accounts and government IDs that were set up under the homeowner's identity. And the fraud store stole, sold the property and walked away with two million dollars. Jeez. That's a lot of money. Um, so they had title insurance on both homeowner and mortgage. So Chicago title paid 1.5 million to the insured lender. So there was a lender involved and $887,000 to the insured homeowner. Wow. So in this case, what I think, uh, what happened is they, they were lucked out really. Um, because if you, let's say it was a paid off mortgage and you didn't have title insurance. And somebody now has done that. That's a long legal battle. It is. And you know what? It is the stress. Oh, yeah. The stress. I can just imagine, I like your house is your biggest investment. And you've, uh, you know, you've been living there and now you've lost it. Yeah. Well, and for a lot of people, it's like sacred space. It's like, you know, you're, you're, I don't know how to explain it, but yeah, you know, it's your privacy and all of that. You just feel like you've been, uh, you know, duped and somebody's just taking control of you. Like that's horrible. And I want to say something too, because there's so much fraud rising, Chicago actually started doing, well, we're actually proud to say this. We started doing ID verification on vendors because fraud was happening on refinances. And, um, people impersonating and selling someone's else home. So we started doing ID on vendor. So there's a big uproar or clients don't want to do it. If I'm selling my home, like, I don't care. It's your problem. But we're like, no, it's, it's the society's problem. We want to make sure. And not only are we protecting the new homeowner, we're also protecting the original seller. Like we want to make sure you're the right person. Especially if you have a paid off mortgage. That's a concern for us is like anybody can sell that. It's easier, right? You have nothing to pay out. Yeah. So how long does the insurance policy, is it there indefinitely as long as you own it? That's right. Okay. As long as you own it. So if six years later, somebody comes and says, Hey, your garage is on my property. It's still covered assuming it's something that is. Assuming everything is factual based and it's covered part of the 36 coverage. Yes. So that's why we always ask people when you're buying a property, make sure you check your title insurance at least every five years to make sure it's up to date because we're always adding new carriages. So we always get this question. I bought a property in 2017 when I moved into my new home. We've added so many endorsements. So many things have been come out in the market. We have something called the IPA increase policy amount, which gives you. So your basic policy gives you a coverage of 200 percent, right? The IPA is a market value endorsement. 200 percent of what? Of your property, right? So what happens is I bought the home today for 100,000. So now today it's worth telling you, right? So we give you the market value endorsement. So there's a lot of things happening. So talk to your lawyer, ask your lawyer and say, Hey, you know what? I brought my, I got my policy. So and so I just want to make sure everything looks good. You know, he'll look at it and he'll let you know. Like if this transfer, you know, it's maybe in the grandmother's name. Now it's been transferred to the grandchildren. We see that a lot, right? You want to make sure it's up to date. So who is your target market? Are you? Because most people going in don't say, Oh, which title insurance company am I going to go with? Right. So I assume you are selling to lawyers. Yes. Okay. So what we have started doing Chicago title is big on education. So we are educating lawyers on what's out there in the market. Why you want to work with Chicago? And we're also educating realtors, brokers. I've done many webinars and seminars with brokers, teaching them about why they want because brokers are helping their clients refinance. Right. And sometimes they're saying, we don't care for title insurance. And we're like, you don't want to do that. Something could come up. And I have a story actually. I had a lawyer who said, my lender is really giving me a tough time. He doesn't want to get title insurance. It's on a property. And what are your thoughts? And I said, that's the lawyer doesn't want to get it? No, no, the lender doesn't. Oh, he's waving it. He's like, I don't care. I know this person for a year, the agreement between, it's a private lender. The agreement is only for six months. What could go wrong in six months? Right. And he's like, what are your thoughts? And we were kind of talking about it. And I said to him, I think it's a really bad idea. I mean, you're saving how much? Right. So for example, a $500,000 policy. And I think you asked me this question. So I apologize. No, that's okay. So a $500,000 policy on a residential. So condominiums a little bit different. If it's an existing, it's different. But just say you're purchasing a $500,000 home. You're looking about approximately $250, right? So is it worth it? Right. Is it? I think you have a lot more to lose. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't do it. So this lender said, I know the client. It's only a six months agreement. Something tragically happened. This person could not pay. They were nulled. They had to go in. They found out there were issues on the property. Um, now they can't get title insurance. Right. It's like insurance, car insurance. Like now you have a problem. Right. Can't get title. You can't get insurance. Yeah. So. So if someone's watching this today, and they've already closed on a property, let's say they don't have title insurance. Because they don't have a mortgage. Uh, can they purchase title insurance? Absolutely. Okay. So it doesn't have to be at the time you're closing. Uh, no, it doesn't have to be. But there is more coverage when you do it before the date of closing. Like if you get it at the date of closing. Um, like you're closing today. So you get it today. Right. Or within, we have certain, um, we work with certain lawyers. We'll try to work with the lawyer to make sure. Because there are certain carriages on original title insurance that you get that you want get on existing. That's kind of like if you get life insurance at 20, it's a little different than if you get it at 60. Yeah. Yeah. And if, if someone's watching this or listening to this podcast, and they say, okay, I want to support Samira and Chicago title. Yeah. Can they, can they request to their lawyer? Yes. Specifically. Yes. And even if that lawyer doesn't necessarily usually use, okay. 100%. 100%. If you're, if you're in Halton and, uh, you need, you know, uh, your lawyer to use Chicago title, they most likely will come to me. Yeah. So I deal with Brampton, Halton going all the way to Niagara Falls. Okay. So most likely they'll be dealing with me. And yes, we, we tried and, you know, I tried, I, I told you this, I, for me, this is exciting. I'm helping someone out. This is helping them. I love the fact that I did a seminar on a senior home and I told them, if you have a home property, get title insurance. Like it makes me happy. How many people have started doing that? I've even educated lawyers saying that when you're doing wills in estates, because lawyers are doing wills and planning it out, if you know the mortgage is paid off, get title insurance. Yeah. Well, and these are people that often can't afford to run into circumstances of whatever it is, unforeseen issues, whether it's encroachments or fraud or like, you know, that has a detrimental effect on them. And you know what's a sad part, Adrian, is that fraud stores are targeting senior citizens. Yeah. That's, they're targeting people who are helpless, right? And we have to protect them because we don't want to see them suffer. So we want to take care of them. So yeah, so they would end up somehow coming back to me. And I try my best to ensure that they get the proper coverage. I also ensure like I always say, okay, if you are buying a property and you plan to live in here for the rest of your life, then you want to have this endorsement because you want to make sure you have the market value endorsement. So you're not buying title insurance every few years, right? So then it gets a little bit expensive. That makes sense. Well, now with AI, fraud is going to go through a phase where it's more prominent. If there's a guy on TikTok that I watch, he's in Burlington. And he posts a lot of content and somebody reached out to one of his followers, reached out to him and said, Hey, did you send me this? And it was a fake account made to appear like this guy's account. And whoever created it used AI to recreate his voice and was sending audio messages directly to people and crazy. And it sounded very, very much like him. So I think it's never been more important than it is now. Yes. And is it actually crazy? You mentioned that. So I tend a lot of seminars as well. I try to educate myself what's happening in the market. So we have the law society that has created amazing programs for lawyers entering and making them aware. Like, we're all trying to help each other out, right? Even the title insurance are all helping each other out. Like, Hey, this is happening. We got to protect consumers, right? And one of the things that came up was a recording, someone who was, it was an AI pretending to be Trump. Oh, wow. Yeah. And it was so real. It was so real. And the video was. Even videos nowadays, sometimes you can kind of catch them, but I'm, I'm so cautious with anything I see on social because, or even just on the web. But, and I think anybody, anybody younger than me would laugh at me for saying web, but the videos are unbelievable. Like they are very, or they're very believable. And yeah, you have to be very careful. And this is why Chicago title has an ID verification program, verify day, where we, if we are doing a transaction, and obviously some fraud stores will not like using Chicago. And that's fine. Where we authenticate them by ensuring that they are who they are, by a multi factor. And we are really diligent. And we're proud to say that we haven't seen any, we haven't been in a situation where someone has been gone through that process and turned out to be a fraudster. So we're very proud of it. And I was again, working with some realtors. And they were telling me that they're starting to see tenants who are fraudsters. Oh yeah. They move in and then they destroy the property and they leave. And there's nothing that the homeowner can do or the realtor or a lawyer, because the people were fraudulent is they don't know who they really are. Yeah. So it's happening everywhere. It's not just happening with us. It's happening with different markets. So, you know, this is why I think title insurance. That's actually a good insurance idea for landlords. Yes. You've done that for me where I'm asking your milling questions. Yeah. Well, we have our property management company, Rentee. So, you know, we've learned that when you do your due diligence, you can really minimize your risks by doing face-to-face interviews and really being thorough at knowing what to look for when you're reviewing documents. And the amount of fraudulent credit reports we've seen and job letters we've seen is unbelievable. And there's someone I know who paid a real estate agent $500 to create basically a fake everything for them to get approved as a tenant. You know what? That's actually really sad, right? It is, yeah. It's really sad because now you're, and these are, there are consequences for these things, right? Insurance will get expensive, properties will get more expensive. Well, you're going to have fewer landlords, which drives up rent. That's right. People don't want to invest. So it just becomes more and more difficult. I find that we all have to play our part, try to help each other out to make sure that fraud doesn't happen. Because fraud is only going to cause trouble in the market. Was there anything else you wanted to talk about before we wrap it up? No, I think we had a really great discussion here. You can always call me if you have any specific questions. But I think we did really well. We talked about fraud. We talked about what title insurance is. We talked about cost. You know what, some of the misconceptions, I think that was one of your questions. One of the misconceptions I find is that people don't even know title insurance exists. Right. Until their signing paperwork. Or when there is an issue. Right. That's when they're like, oh, I should have got that title insurance. So if anything you can get out of this podcast is please get title insurance. Don't worry about saving a small fee. It's not worth it. And even if you know, like, okay, there's no issues, everything is done. Or you ask your lawyer, I want you to do all the work that's needed. The opinion of the lawyer is going to be very expensive first. Second, why do you want to take a chance? Oh, yeah. Just have the title insurance as a backup. If you want your lawyer to do a proper due to it, let him do it. But still get your title insurance. Yeah. Well, even for people that aren't big advocates of, well, I'm a good example. I'm not a big advocate of warranties. Yeah. Or insurance is general. Yeah. But I have life insurance. Yeah. Because you can get better price on life. I have title insurance. Because it's my biggest asset. Yes. And I have apple care coverage on my phone. Oh, I love that. And those are the certain things you just always get coverage for. Yes. For a piece of money. Yeah. Yeah. Well, great. Well, thank you for joining us. It was nice having you. And you follow us on social. I do. If I encourage anyone watching or listening to comment and ask questions. And Samira, just keep your eyes on our posts. And if you see some questions, you can chime in and address those questions. To my best. Whatever channel you see them pop up on. So yeah. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you. Good chat. Thanks. Thanks for watching or listening to today's episode. Samira will be watching our feed of comments. If you have any questions or comments about title insurance, drop them in the comments and our team and Samira will get back to you. Thanks for watching. Make sure you subscribe so you don't miss out on next week's episode.

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0:17 – Intro

1:55 – The origin story of Sameera Malik

11:07 – What title insurance is

17:46 – Real-life examples

21:06 – Case Study: Resolving Outstanding Property Taxes

30:35 – Fraudulent cases

37:57 – Increase Policy Amount (IPA)

41:17 – Who can purchase title insurance?

43:23 – Senior citizens are targeted by fraudsters

57:53 – Outro/recap

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