Death on the Daily

Comedian Daman Bamrah: Death and Identity - Culture, Faith & Career Transitions

I am joined today by Sikh-British comedian and writer Daman Bamrah. Two friends chatting about our perspectives on death, we explore the multifaceted nature of death.

Discussing personal experiences with loss, cultural and religious perspectives, and societal attitudes towards mortality.

We delve into how capitalism influences our perception of death and the importance of having open conversations about end-of-life decisions.

Plus speak to death in our career transitions, speaking to our experiences as we left corporate. With Daman’s to carve out a new identity and career as a comedian.

Our chat highlights the interconnectedness of death, personal growth, and our identity shifts and letting go of former versions of our self in our career and life.

Takeaways

Death is the great unknown, but also the great equaliser.
Talking about death can bring empowerment and meaning.
Personal experiences with loss shape our understanding of death.
Religion plays a role in how we perceive death and the afterlife.
Western cultural attitudes push death into the shadows.
Finding peace with death can enhance our quality of life.
Open conversations about end-of-life wishes are essential.
Acceptance of mortality can lead to a more fulfilling life. It's important to talk about death openly.
Living well now is crucial, given life's impermanence.
Career transitions from corporate to follow your heart and purpose requires courage.
Failure is a part of the creative process.
Embracing discomfort can lead to personal growth.
Authenticity is key to finding fulfilment in life.
Continual growth and reinvention are essential throughout life.

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https://www.tiktok.com/@daman.bamrah

Plus find out about his latest comedy gigs here:

https://www.damanbamrah.com

Duration:: 52m
Broadcast on:: 30 Nov 2024
Audio Format:: other

People are always they're afraid of the unknown, right? And so and death is the great unknown. But it's also the great equalizer, like, so to bring it back to seekers of a second, it's like death is the death is the highest form of equality. Because that's the one thing that is going to happen to all of us. Hey, I'm Tanya Wilkinson and this is Death on the Daily. Bringing the conversation about death out of the shadows and into the mainstream. Because along with birth and change, if there's one thing that's going to happen to us all, then death is it. And we're going to explore how death actually shows up for us on the daily in a multitude of ways and how we allow ourselves to accept and to be with death, how it can teach us a whole heap about how to live this life well. To many, talking about death can sound scary and upsetting. But there's so much more to it. And yes, there are times when talking about death can bring up all of those. And so should it. Because as in life, death can also be painful and difficult. But there are also times when it can be empowering, joyful, and bring meaning and purpose. And my guest today joined me for a conversation that held all of these. A testament to his curiosity and openness to just sit and chat about death. Daman Bamra is hilarious. He's a British seat comedian who brings so much heart into everything that he does. He's been called the next big thing by Rolling Stone, who also said he is defiantly and proudly himself. And he's appeared on our screens on Channel 4, BBC One and BBC Three. Plus shared the stage with Migna Chihuahua, Mo Gilligan and other comedy heavyweights. So, Daman, welcome to the show. Today, we are going to be having what I call a dead conversation. So let's dive straight in. Let's talk about death, such a big topic. And I suppose where I want to flow to first is just your connection with death in your life. Like, does it come up a lot? Do you think about it? Do you speak about it? What experiences you've had with it and what it brings up? Yeah, I would say that in terms of death, does it come up a lot? I don't think it comes up a lot, necessarily. But I have this thing, I'm sure other people have it, too, where I just have sort of periods of time where I'm like really worried about death. But weirdly enough, not my own death, but more death of my loved ones. I think now that I've hit 30 a year ago, I am. I basically I'm starting to notice my parents get older. I think, you know, in your first, maybe 10, 20 years of your life, you're like, yeah, this is my mum and dad and my mum and dad, they don't change. And then you start to see people get grey and you start to see ailments come in. And all of these things, and it's a big reminder of mortality. So I think that's the bit of death that I'm worried about the most. And so what it does is it just forces me to go for a walk with dad more or like make mum do yoga with me in the morning or something. Don't listen to this, I'll be like, you're lying, you're the laziest person in our house. But still, I'm going to claim it, I'm going to claim it. I think that's that's the bit of death that worries me the most. But in terms of experiences with death, I've had, I would say, two sort of major instances where I've experienced it number one, basically to my grandparents, my dad's dad and my mum's mum. So that was the first experience I had was my grandfather dying in 2008. So I would have been roughly 16, 17. And yeah, it was it was very interesting because I walked in to the house because he hadn't been picking up the phone for ages, so we walked in. And yeah, he was just like, he was sort of lying there on the sofa sort of. And, you know, so that was like a stark experience to me. That's the first time I've seen somebody dead in real life. And, you know, my mum and dad walked in behind me and my dad, you know, ranted him to see if he could like resuscitate him. My mum, you know, she immediately broke down in tears. And I was just sort of like processing, but I didn't like necessarily like my expression didn't really even change. And like, you know, a few minutes later, we were sat at a kitchen. My mum was like, you know, it's OK. You can cry like you feel it, you know. And I was like, you know, I'm I'm OK. I'm not trying to be strong or anything like I'm I'm just OK. And then the funeral came around. You know, a couple of days later, and that's when it just really, really hit me. And, you know, it all came out. It comes from this space that sort of grief comes from a place that you can't. It's hard to access, you know, I think it's such a deep emotion and such a heavy emotion. It's not it's not just on the surface. But I think I think people will react differently to it. For me, that's how it came out and that's when it came out. But it was, yeah, it was a sort of yeah, it was it was a very, very sad experience, my ground and no close. But you know, it it also teaches you that life has to go on. I think the first time you go through that experience. So yeah, so then when my grandmother died a couple of years later, again, it's very, very sad, but maybe because I'd been through it once before I was a little bit more mentally prepared for what was coming. And I think the the big thing in that second experience, when my grandmother died was she was in India and we were here and so what happens is in Sikhism, we burn the body, right, we cremate the body. But in this country, you go to a crematorium. So what happens is you have a coffin, your loved one goes in the coffin and then they go through the crematorium and then you receive the ashes, whereas in India, like you loved one will be dressed up, sort of put on like a you know, a bed of a bed of wood and you will set fire to the bed of wood yourself, so you'll watch them burn. And that's that is very, very difficult because I think there's something about humans that is so attached to the physical form, right? You almost you almost think that if there's still here, this I still have some sort of connection to them. And so therefore if I, if I now cremate them, if I burn the body, then what am I doing? Am I doing something wrong here? Like then, because they're going to be truly gone and it's going to be my fault. Even though like, well, this doesn't make sense because they already passed away. But because we're so attached, like you have that thought and so difficult to watch your, you know, your love, your loved one, time to ash in front of your eyes. You know, for me, obviously it was terrible, but like I can't imagine, I can't imagine the pain, you know, my mum, my, my uncle's and my auntie would go through. So that was a very, very stark lesson I learned there as well, which was that it you have to let go of the physical form you just do because that's not who we are, we're not, we're not our bodies, are we, we're, we're our souls. So that's, that's what it is. I don't know, in my opinion, anyway, disclaimer, it's my opinion. But yeah, so, so there was a lot of that over those, over those experiences. But they happened in my sort of mid to late teens. And I think I've done a lot of emotional development after that point. So I think this, I think whatever the next one is, that'll be, that'll be even rougher about something about death. But it's OK, it's life. It's all we're missing. Exactly. So all one in the same. And I think there's something really interesting in there are as you shed our connection to that physical body. And I'd be interested as well, because obviously you mentioned that, you know, that difference between sort of the cremation here in the UK versus in India. And I'd be really interested as well to just get your thoughts on, you know, is that because my, my mom's Hindu. So obviously there's a lot of sort of similarities by way of that cremation, that letting go of the physical bodies of the soul can go on and into that sort of next incarnation is that is the same in Sikhism. That sort of belief of reincarnation into that next soul and karma and stuff. Absolutely. I mean, to my understanding, for sure, I'm always, you know, I will again, I'll say, you know, I'm not, I'm not the best Sikh in the world, but I'm certainly someone who's trying. So I fact check me who I was listening to this. But to my understanding, yes. Yeah, I know this is on you, the listener. I accept responsibility for them. Yeah, same for me with the Hindu side. We're just a couple of kids who are trying our best. Yeah. So so essentially in Sikhism, yeah, we believe that, you know, the body is a vessel for a soul. So when you die, you get cremated so that your soul can most easily detach from the body and move on to its next life form because we believe in reincarnation. So we believe in something called Jerusalem, which roughly translates to eight point four million life forms basically on this planet. So essentially you have to go through that many life forms to achieve your human life form and your human life form is the best chance you have of filling your spiritual cup, so to speak, right? And so that's the most that's it's your best chance of being able to understand spirituality and connect with it the most. So it comes after a long, long time. And so this is your best chance of of making the most of it and tuning into divine frequency and God's will and such. So that's that's essentially what we believe. You know, when it comes to funerals as well, we're trying to we're trying to say don't grieve too much. Don't mourn too much because death is just a part of life. It's God's will and it's not inherently sad because, you know, like I say, it's not it's not you dying. It's simply your your form before you move on to the next one. So yeah, yeah. And that's that's interesting as well, because, you know, it ties into culture. Back in the day in the villages, you would see people that were like they were almost hired to come and cry at me was funerals, right? Which is also to my understanding, like a very old tradition anywhere. I know I've read about the ancient Egyptians doing a similar thing. So it's interesting because we as humans are so like it's almost like a pride thing, right? Like your wedding has to be the biggest wedding. And so when you cry, most people have to cry at your funeral. Like it becomes an ego thing, you know, pride thing, you know. And so I don't know if that happens so much anymore, but like certainly in Sikhism, like, you know, they they they they don't want you to mourn too much because it's not it's not seen as like the saddest thing in the world. Just simply it's so much more complex than the end of your the end of your journey here, which is just why I think that the focus is on rightly so, I guess. But yeah, that's that's what that's what Sikhism teaches to my knowledge. Really interesting. And I think it's beautiful as well, because it's that, you know, the the new beginning is a continuation, isn't it? And actually, I think that there's something really interesting in that sort of culture, I guess, in some ways, it's culture clashes, isn't it? And the fact that actually where we've got these real anchors, and I'm assuming, you know, for me, I think we I often think, oh, you know, UK predominantly Christian country, like my family, you know, my dad's side Christian. And I often connect in and I sort of almost blame the, you know, that sort of I guess the UK and therefore, I think Christianity for not kind of I suppose treating death, you know, with that connection and sort of pushing into the shadows. And actually, it's probably his culture. You know, there's I'm sure there's loads of stuff in all of the religions that have those real anchors to that moment and brings meaning into it. Whatever the religious beliefs are. And actually, I think there's something in, I know you you grew up in Wembley, you know, like me woken up in Wembley and woken and sort of how, you know, even with our religions and how then, you know, that, for example, going to crematorium and I suppose it being much more behind closed doors does create that distance or, you know, when when I think about in Hinduism, it was always the tradition to die at home and obviously now with hospitals, there's many, many people who die behind closed hospital doors or in hospices or care homes or wherever it is. And actually, that's just pushed death into the shadows versus having it right here and having, I suppose, whole communities witnessing, not just when people in your family die, but anyone in your neighborhood when they die that that ritual, which I wonder if, you know, makes it sort of, I suppose less shocking, which was my my own experience as well, you know, even even in the UK, I remember, you know, I've been to a couple of Hindu funerals and for me, just having the open casket was like, Oh, like I just, in my younger self, I couldn't have them it. I was like, Yeah, this is shocking. Oh, my goodness. Like how? And it's in as well. I think, you know, when I look at, for example, like relatives that I've seen you sort of thrown into those situations, you mentioned, obviously, it would have been really hard for your mum with your grandmother and stuff like that. So yeah, it's really interesting how culture has kind of pushed death into the shadows. And I wonder, I don't know, you know, don't have you got any theories on the why, but do you have any thoughts about why in general we like to kind of sanitize death or sort of push it away and not really speak to it or be with it? Yeah, it's a it's a tough question. I think death is like, I think we grow up in a space where, you know, we're we're afraid of death. And I think that's perfectly understandable, you know, because death is I think seen as the end of the journey, right? Like the end of the road, that's it. And particularly if you grow up within either a space of, like, thought of thought about atheism and, like, no disrespect, absolutely to any other cultures at all. I'm just trying to rationalize why why I think maybe we might be a bit more scared of death, you know, because if we're if we're saying that there's no spiritual continuation, we're saying that once we die, that's where, you know, we are we are dust. And some people are OK with that. And some people are not OK with that. And I think I think it contributes to to fear because people are always afraid of the unknown, right? And so and death is the great unknown. But it's also the great equalizer, like, so to bring you back to secrets and for seconds, like death is the death is the highest form of equality, because that's the one thing that is going to happen to all of us, right? Like. And you're not going to take anything with you, not even your body. You're going to take nothing with you. Doesn't matter who you are in this lifetime. I think I think it almost ties into this concept of the American dream. You know, the American dream is like, yeah, come to America, get rich, a crew wealth, a crew power. And so then death is the loss of everything that you've existed for. So it's it's taking away the power of the purpose that we're allegedly supposed to be following. You know, it feels like that. It feels like that's what we're taught to chase. And so now that we can't chase that anymore, we have to escape it. And that's why so many again, it's capitalism. Like there's so much technology out there that's trying to cheat death. I don't belong my life to the highest level. How do I take my consciousness and put it into a different vessel? How do I do all of those things? Because it's like fundamentally to try to outrun it, be calm. So I think I think it just ties in with everything that society, larger society, what a society is trying to achieve. So we're surrounded by those kind of ideas a lot. And also I think are theisticly as well, you know, where the concept of having hell comes up a lot as well. Perhaps also people are afraid that they're not doing well enough to get it to happen. And then now they're afraid of death because they don't want to go to hell. And so I think, I don't know, for me, those would be my theories on why perhaps we're so afraid of death to go to a realm where we might be punished or we might not exist. I don't know what's worse. So it's that's the thing that's sort of the standard theory in people's hearts would be my theory on it. I don't know what's yours. Oh, I think that's really, really interesting. I really connected into that because I'm really conscious. So for me with, yeah, with my theories on this, I think about it. As you can imagine, with this podcast, I think about it a lot. I definitely definitely think that there's something in the capitalist world that we live in and to your point, that sort of severing from, well, from nature. I think it went all the way back. If I think about like, I mean, going back to like Roman times and the destructions of like the forest and our disconnection from from nature and from that being the very essence and the very roots of everything, including death. You know, if you look at the seasons, but spring and summer, and if I think about how we live, like, I mean, we both worked in corporate, both worked in agency land, and I think about incorporates, you're permanently trying to live in summer. You're permanently trying to grow, trying to increase without that understanding that actually everything has a period of dying and death. Everything will inevitably come to an end. But actually, I look at these big corporations who are just assuming again, they're going to be here forever or, you know, you look at anti-aging products as a sort of marketed or you look at the world of Hollywood and, you know, all those red carpets and how many people are just trying to defy the fact that actually, and it's boys look for me, I'm like, when you go too far in that space, I'm like, you would just look better aging gracefully, you know. There's something really beautiful, I think, around that, like the autumn period of our lives. And I think about how, you know, every we kind of come back into sort of the roots of culture, I think, and again, this is my theory. I'm not an expert in this. I'm not a, I don't know, an academic who studied this, but I do think that there's been a severance from basically the natural, natural order of things. And that has taken us to this point where all aspects of dying and death are therefore pushed into the into the shadows. As a woman, it's, you know, if you look at sort of the, I suppose again, that anti-aging perspective and even how the sort of wise women, and I know things better, but how the wise women were so sort of suppressed and again, pushed into the shadows and I just think that's all a reflection of our sort of, you know, disconnection from nature's seasons and from that kind of autumn and then winter. I do know it's getting better. I've been sort of very much cheering on Hollywood and sort of the entertainment space as it is, is righted all of those wrongs, but, you know, I think also the thing for me is around us not being willing to be connected into uncomfortable things. So I think that's the other thing is our kind of easeful lives, where there isn't too many challenges or, you know, we're not facing death every day in our community. I think that, you know, in hospitalizations and death being pushed into hospitals, into hospitals, you know, and kind of kept to arms distance as well. I think that there's something in us just sort of not, it's almost our comfort zone that's retracted in. We're not comfortable being uncomfortable. And as you shared, when when people die, you know, it is, it is painful. It's really sad and it's not going to be, you know, fun, obviously, but there's such, I think that's such a fear in our society for, as you shared, for that happening and for kind of how will we be through it and almost feels like the world's going to end versus actually being like, we will be OK because as you shared earlier, there is life on the other side. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It's about us finding our peace within it over here. I think there's no point being so terrified of it because, you know, like we like we know, it's like it's like the only inevitability of life is death. So why why we so terrified all the time of the inevitable and why not find, you know, peace and coping mechanisms and, you know, philosophy within that, like, it would make things, it would make things better. But I think also it's easy for me to say that as you know, as somebody who's like touchwood, relatively healthy and, you know, all of that sort of thing, I think it's you, you, you, you come face, face to face with it a lot more like if you were somebody who might be facing an element of some sort, or maybe even with age, you know, maybe you're, you know, you're coming, of course, you're coming closer to it. But yeah, the one thing I always wonder is you know, how does life experience time in with death? Because I think being afraid of death is something a, younger people have a lot more of that. And B, I think that maybe people who are more sort of like, you know, like I said or like more like tuned into this capitalistic rituals of society, they're more attached to this idea of immortality. Whereas a lot of the time, if you speak to older people who have lost most of their family, most of their friends, everything, aches and pains, they don't know how about any more really, you know, they're like functioning, but are they living, you know? It's you talk to them and they're like, you know, a friend of mine told me, she used to work in a hospital and she sometimes she would, she would work with very, very old people and there was one lady who had had like a heart attack. She must have been late 80s, early 90s, and they saved her. And she was a bit like, why did you save me? Like, I'm done. Like, it's OK. Let me go. You know? I'm I'm ready because I've done I've done everything I set out to do. So so it's which is there's a real like is which is something I think it's hard for us to hear in a way. Why would you mean you're done? But you can also understand it completely from that perspective to death is sometimes the greatest mercy in particular situations. So yeah, yes. Oh, my goodness, it's so true. And I think that's where these conversations are so important because I recently had a Duke University professor Dan Arielli on the podcast. And he's doing research into end of life. And he was talking about just that and how you know, you can because there's these different sort of forms that you can fill in, you know, do not resuscitate orders and sort of expressing your wishes for end of life to say, you know, I don't want to be force fed. I don't want to be resuscitated in these situations. I don't want to be taken to hospital. If, for example, I get pneumonia at this stage in life. And he was saying how, you know, that wishes is really hard because obviously, you know, without that, I suppose the conversations to be able to bring, for example, your kids into acceptance that actually there can be situations where you've got one kid who wants to I say kid because my mum calls me a kid in my 30s, but the kids want to be like the adult, adult children of the person because I was, you know, going to have kids making these decisions, but the grownups making, you know, making difficult decisions because they have that power of attorney where actually, you know, they can be like, what, you know, what do you want to go? What are you talking about? No. And I remember actually you've got me thinking about when my two grandparents, I remember they bought their, that's my dad's parents, the British side and they brought their burial plots and they remember them telling us really proudly. They were like, oh, yeah, we brought our burial plots and we're going to be buried, you know, next to each other. And isn't it? It's going to be lovely and dead of the day. And we were all like, no, you know, you're going to die any time soon. No, what are you talking about? And now I think about that conversation. And actually, I was like, that was a wonderful invitation to actually talk about their perspectives and understand, yeah, are you scared of death? What's coming up for you, you know, as you're going through all of this and really kind of understand and meet them where they are? Because I could imagine when you're that time of life, if no one wants to talk about it and shut you down, it's going to be quite isolating. I feel like I don't know who the hell I can talk to about about this, about the fact that actually I'm ready to go. I'm pretty much done or, you know, I'm reconciled that when my time comes, whether it's 10 years or five years or two years, that's all good. I think I could imagine it be quite quite lonely where you're like, OK, no one wants to talk to me about this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, everyone's too afraid. Yeah, it's a very, yeah, it's an interesting one because it's such a life stage thing as well, they would have been like, yeah, you know, I've never started thinking about this and you're like, what do you mean? People don't die, like, especially you guys. And they're like, OK, all right, then. Just why don't you carry on watching Cartoon Network, Mike? And it's like a joke, it's yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. But yeah, it's something I mean, have you have you ever had the opportunity to talk to sort of like your older family members in recent years now about about death and the concept of death? How's that? Have you managed to scratch that itch? Do you know what I haven't because and I want to, I definitely want to. I find it is something that I'm sort of working, working up to because for my for my parents, and I think actually for both of them, they are. I think that's always been in my family. Death has always been something that's been very much pushed into the shadows. I see myself as like not just the only one who's changing the conversation, but sort of like one of the ones who is and it's like, you know, I love I love my parents, but you know, for example, with my, with my dad, you know, it's sort of like, it's almost like you can feel there's like it's almost like someone starts, he starts malfunctioning when you talk about avoidance. It's literally like, how can I kind of get out of this conversation and just like, like, OK, like, and it's like Roadrunner, then it's like disappeared, either in body or like in mind or whatever it is. So yeah, something that I'm definitely, definitely, definitely gearing gearing up because I am to kind of as you shared at the start of your, at the start of our conversation, I am really conscious of the fact that obviously, you know, they are getting older and I think you're right. You know, for me, it was that point of getting into my 30s and suddenly I was like, oh, everyone, my grandparents who are still here and my parents, everybody, I can now connect into that aging process in a way that I hadn't done before. So I'm really conscious that yes, it's really, really important and actually, even from the perspective of those kind of like they do not resuscitate orders and stuff like that, I know that, you know, that's something where you want to understand and get stuff in place early versus leaving it and, you know, seeing with my grandparents where then it was suddenly they were diagnosed with dementia or whatever it is, you know, I don't want to leave it to the point of, I don't know, a diagnosis or whatever. So yeah, it's definitely something on my radar and how about you? Is it something that you've ever spoken to your parents about? Do you know what? Yeah, not so much actually recently. Well, I say recently, not so much ever. But I do want to talk to them more about it because, yeah, just like you brought up again there, it's like, you know, you turn you you turn 30 and then all of a sudden, like you're understanding mortality a little bit better, maybe because it's clicked in your head like, oh, no, I'm, yeah, I'm aging too. And it almost feels like that first 20 years of your life is like a free trial. You know, I mean, you go just try whatever you want. Fall down, get out drink loads, eat rubbish, you're fine. You know, no consequences, don't worry about it. And then you hit 30 and then you wake up and everything's like creaky and clicky and you're like, Oh, where's the reset bar on this? And so, yeah, I want to talk to my parents about it more. I think like we we don't necessarily push it into the shadows. But we we've never we've never had like, I would say a like a long conversation about it. I mean, a lot of the knowledge that I have about about death and death within Sikhism as well has come about through conversations with my parents too. So they're, they're not super afraid of talking about it. I guess it just doesn't come up that much. It just comes up, you know, when something happens or like, you know, you see it, but at news, I suppose it's coming up a lot these days because of, you know, recent events in the news. My dad has always said when I die through a party, I don't want to be sad through a party and I always used to think that come on. That's impossible. You know, how am I going to throw a bike? Like, but like, you know, as as I've thought about it more over the years, I'm like, you know what, it's a really it's actually a really, really nice request. You know, like he wants it to be more a celebration of life rather than a morning in death. And yeah, it's a very I've seen a few, you know, a few of my friends from other backgrounds, they have more of that sort of thing going on anyway, where they will have the funeral. But also everyone comes back to the house and everyone eats a load of food. And, you know, they want it to be a bit more of a lively atmosphere. And yeah, so that's that's something dad's always talked about. I suppose it's something that I've only really like started processing a deeper way in more recent years. And so, yeah, it's something I want to explore with them more for sure. But also just as much as I want to explore that concept of, but how do we get you healthy? Also, you know, it's it's it's it's about a yeah, it's about balance. I think in that respect, I respect and I think that's the wonderful thing, because actually when we start to connect into our, you know, it's true when you're 20s or in your teens, you just say, it's like you're living like you're immortal and everyone's immortal. And actually, when you connect in from that perspective to the fact that everything is impermanent, including us, each of us, but actually that can really spotlight, OK, how can we live life well now? So it's kind of like to your point, I think that's really beautiful to then say, OK, how can we be at our fittest and our most healthiest? And also, then how can we enjoy life? Like what are the riches in the now that we need to connect into more? Because and that's what I love about sort of talking about death is because we just none of us know when when this life is going to end like we there is no crystal ball or anything to say, OK, you've got X amount of Monday, Monday mornings left. So make sure you're not threading them, you know, come on, what you're doing? Sort of thing, it's that perspective of actually say, therefore, in today, yeah, where am I disconnected? Where am I not honoring myself and my body and being, you know, at my most healthy whatever it is. So I think that's wonderful. She shared around that balance of sort of like, you know, yes, talking to that. But then also, OK, in the now, how can we really optimize? Yeah, absolutely. And it's also like, you know, you want to optimize it because life is a beautiful gift and you want to make the most of it. But also what makes life a beautiful gift is also its finite nature. You know what I mean? With it wasn't finite. Like you wouldn't like you would care so much less. Like it just that's just a human rule, you know what I mean? Like, it's like you when you play the sims and you get the cheat code for unlimited money and it's a really fun hour after that, getting everything you ever wanted. And then guess what it words the game because now it's done. What am I even playing for anymore? Like we realize is that the value is in the trying, the value is in the journey and the value is in knowing like, Oh, no, all of this is limited. So let me make the most of the limited access that I have. Oh, I love that. You know what you've really got me thinking about is billionaires who've just got that unlimited and I don't know. I mean, to be honest, if we get some sort of technology, it's going to keep them alive and some like like sort of freezer or something. But you know, actually, where you think about how, you know, I don't think there's, you know, if I look, I don't know, but I've seen, you know, a lot of perspectives on kind of just how miserable it can be when you've got that much, when everything is unlimited versus to your point saying, actually, this life is finite. The amounts of some rises and sunsets that I'm going to get to witness the amounts of time with my family, all of that is finite. So let's really, really enjoy the now and yeah. And I think also that really links as well into I'd love as well to to speak to your journey to because when we talk about death and the daily, it's all about the ways that death and any endings and transitions in life show up for us. And actually to the point around really seizing this life and making sure that you make it count, I would love for you to share a little bit about your journey because you have stepped out of corporate into the world of comedy, something that I think would have taken heaps of courage. So tell me a little bit around that transition and how that was for you. Oh, well, well, look, to stick to the to the theme, you know, to leave a career and to move to another one is is daunting in many ways, but it's like it's the death of an identity, you know. And that identity is tied in with so many things. You know, you'd your initial plan for life, your parents's expectations of you. You have to reinvent yourself from like a place of inherent, I would say, disrespect, basically, because people are like, are you crazy? Like, what are you doing? You have a degree, you have a job, you have a corporate job. Why do you want to be a clown, huh? And it's hard because nobody else understands that vision, but you know, it's OK. It's OK, you have to it's all about going through that that. I guess like I was able to evolve and grow into you know, the more of the person who I wanted to be. And I think you have to just keep doing that in life. You have to keep on dying and experiencing rebirth of your identity, because that's that's everything that life is giving you is telling you to a different person constantly. So you have to allow that to happen. You know, you mentioned courage, I had courage to do it. And I, you know, I thank you for saying that, definitely. But I also I think I inherently would find it tough to not do what I wanted to do. You know what I mean? Like pursuing what I needed to pursue is something that I had to do within my own heart. And in fact, I would say it's even more brave to maybe put that part of you aside and continue down a path where you know that it's more stable. And a lot of the time, that's what people have to do, you know, given their circumstances, totally understand that. But I think a lot of the time, that's a harder thing to do is to like ignore what your heart is calling out for and just go down a path Richard in, Richard in stability, Richard in, you know, potentially, you know, providing to your family, because maybe that's your priority. I I just had to I just had to do it because if I didn't do it, it would be the death of my dreams. And I just couldn't I couldn't face that I had to at least try, you know, so. Yeah, so comedy is just something I've loved for for the longest time and. Yeah, I love doing it. And funnily enough, actually comedy involves a lot of what we refer to as death as well, you know, dying on stage. You go you go on stage, you tell a joke, it doesn't go well. Oh, God, I died. You know, we always say that. And that the goal is to like try not to die, because, yeah, truly, that is the goal of comedy. Yeah, because you have to you have to like come up, you have to present your ideas and if people people don't like it, you're witnessing the death of your idea in real time, you know, I mean, and so you have to like learn how to deal with it, you have to learn to let go and the ideas and breathe and give them the space to grow or put them to the sides for for the addition of new ideas. And so, yeah, comedy involves a lot of death, death and dying and all you did well. Oh, you killed it, man. You murdered that, you murdered that, you smashed it. So it's it's very connected all of it. Oh, my goodness, I love that the interconnections between death, culture and comedy, I love that. And actually what I can feel is I love a fear of fear that it's not die on stage. But even in that thing, go because actually in the creative process and in your writing, I'd imagine that there is that process where you have to kind of be like, OK, what do I need to let go? Because actually what that does is it creates, I'm not, I'm not a comedian. I'm not not doing stand up and so writing the sets and stuff. Imagine, you know, you need to go through that, letting go to be able to create that space and from that space again, in that sort of like from winter come spring. And that is, you know, you left corporate. There's the death of your corporate career. There's the rebirth you created the space for you to follow your heart. And I love that you said your heart because that's why I'm like, oh, courage. Yeah, because I don't know if you know the word courage is heart. It's followed by courage is heart centered. So core in Latin means heart. And then obviously that eventually became cur in French. But I, you know, I can imagine actually that there's probably a lot of in that sort of the the death of identities and then sort of moving through and the death of certain certain, I don't know, like jokes, skits, et cetera. And actually, you know, does that come with is there any discomfort that that comes with? Is there ever been any moments in this journey where you've been like, oh, this is really uncomfortable to sit with. Yeah, I mean, regularly. Yeah. I think that I think that that is the job. If I'm being honest, like people think comedy is like, you know, they'll go to like the comedy club on a Friday night. Let's see some comics, the comics will have a great set. You guys will laugh. It'll be a great time. I mean, look, that is like that is the latest part of this of the process of comedy, you know, because what had to happen was they had to have an idea that to take a new material night, they had to really believe in that idea. They say it, nobody laughs and then they have to go home and be like, am I crazy? Or is this actually still funny? And I'm just not saying it right or like there's some sort of external factor. Let me try that again. Let me go through it again and you go through so many iterations of like changing your jokes or rewording your jokes or adding context to the premise or, you know, there's like a real, there's so much work and there's a science to comedy for sure. So you have to be willing to be uncomfortable. You have to be willing to accept your failure on stage and you have to be also willing to not sort of let it ruin the night for you all for the punters because this is what it is. All comedy is you have to it's it's trial by fire every time. There's no way of knowing what's funny until people have laughed at it. You know, so you get more in tune with it over time, but especially at the start, you have to be so so willing to die on stage. You have to because there's no way there's no other way to get better, which is why comics talk about, you know, you have to have more stage time and you have to write more because all of these all of these things are part of the iterative process of just getting better as a comic. Being a comic is it's so like the opposite of Gloria. I think it becomes Gloria at a particular point in somebody's career. But, you know, you you have to contend with so much failure and it's just being OK with failure and learning how to use failure in your stride to become better. I think that applies every bit of life really, isn't it? Like whatever career you're in, like you're going to try things that I'm going to go well, but as long as you learn from it and move forward, like that's fine. That's good. That's what it's supposed to be. It's just that in comedy, it's just happening in front of your eyes. Like it's it's one of the art forms where, you know, if there's a play, if you're at a play and people don't really like it, like you won't really know until the next day, you know, unless people are groaning and walking out, which I mean, yeah, it's probably one that happened. You know, I mean, hopefully not anyway, but, you know, you might you might just do, you know, get on with it and then the next day you read the paper, OK, this wasn't that great. Oh, right. People didn't really like it. Whereas with comedy, you tell the joke, people don't laugh. Oh, they don't like it. Like, you know, immediately and then you have to sit there. You have to sit there and move on to the next joke. You can't suck. You can't be like, come on, guys. Come on, guys, laugh at that. That's definitely funny. Like you it's your responsibility to make them laugh. So they're laughing then that's something you've got to work on. And if you're not managing to get them on site again, it's something you've got to work on. So you have to be so patient and understanding and like you have to just keep trying basically. You have to keep trying and you have to try in the moment on the job. So that's that's the that's a beauty of comedy. But that's why it's also comedy is like forever going to be the unfinished art because there's always more to do. There's always more to achieve. It was somewhere to elevate and it never becomes like super easy. You know, I mean, like it's. Yeah, I mean, very few people, very, very few people achieve achieve a place in their career where you know, you just say high and everyone laughs. Oh, I think a couple of people have maybe Steve Meyer and Eddie Murphy. But but most people don't experience that. Yeah, but they also think there's something really interesting in, you know, the lines that can be drawn into all of life because life is a journey of growth and development, isn't it? That is life until we die. And then, you know, and then if that's your belief, like it's for us. And there's a reincarnation into that next life and you continue to learn and grow and develop. And I think as well, you know, for me and my journey and if it helps for anyone who's tuning into this, like it is difficult, you know, it's uncomfortable, particularly when you are when you do have the death of that former, venture and identity and also parts of that. I was in my what I call it, my corporate comfort zone. I was so comfortable and then there was like the monthly paycheck that was always the same and all of that stuff and it was really uncomfortable on the other side. I didn't expect how much my nervous system would take an absolute battering for the first like 18 months of just like and now it's kind of like, you know, things are more comfortable as you've shared as well. You get used to being with that discomfort, but that's not to say that that discomfort's not there and I think there's something really powerful as you get around the failures and where we can just be present in that discomfort. So, oh, this hasn't quite connected in the way that I thought it would. Let me sit with that and let me see what lessons I can take for us because that's the rebur. That's the then. OK, I can let go of that therefore and then how can I take that forwards into my forwards path so that there's so much that is of such value. But, Daman, I'm conscious of time and letting you get on with the rest of your day and before we close out, I have one question I ask of August and that is if you could write a note to your past version of yourself, it might be yourself who's just literally left corporate and is going, oh, this feels uncomfortable. It could be at any time in life. From where you're sitting right now, what words of wisdom would you share with that past version of yourself? Oh, well, I think it would be really annoying advice for my past self to receive. But if I did have a message, it would just be be yourself and just keep going. That's it. Because I think that's it. That's it. I think it sounds simple, but I think it's difficult. I think it is difficult to try and tap into being your authentic self. And, you know, as a process, I'm continually working one. But I think the more you are yourself, the more things will fall in line for you. You know, I'm just keep going. It's my way of motivating myself because, you know, I'm a serial procrastinator who's constantly looking for motivation. And so it's just that idea of, hey, don't worry about it. Just take another step. I love that. Be yourself and just keep going. Wisdom that we can all take forwards. And actually, you know, that's what really resonates about you. You know, every time we catch up, every time I see you, you know, on stage, doing your incredible comedy and just all of the other stuff that you are doing in your world, you are just so authentically you. It shines on through. And I think it's true, you know, that's a journey that we can all have, particularly when we're shedding those corporate masks or whatever it is, to just say, yeah, what is taking me into deeper alignment with myself? So thank you for sharing that. And finally, Damon, as well, just share where anyone who's tuning in can connect with you outside of this. Well, first of all, thank you for those kind words. Very nice, where people can connect with me. They can connect with me on TikTok and Instagram @daman.bamara. Twitter is @DSBamara, although I'm not really on it. Is anyone really still on it? I don't know. I've deactivated. I'm like, no, yeah, exactly. Yeah, jump out of that burning building right now. And I think all my gigs and links to important things are on my website. www.damanbamara.com. So, yeah, catch me on there. Let's be friends, subscribe to my mailing list. Love, love it. Well, Damon, thank you so, so much for your time for our dead conversation today. I'm so, so grateful to you. This is the best dead conversation I've ever heard. Thank you so, yeah. All of my gratitude to you for joining me for another dead conversation. Death on the Daily is edited by David Strut. The music is set free by Katie Gray and I am Tanya Wilkinson. And if you enjoyed this episode, I would be over the moon. If you can rate, review and subscribe. It really, really helps me to get the word out there. And if you want to say hi or to hear more about my work as a coach and death dealer, including how I support my clients to navigate their death on the daily, then all of the ways that you can connect with me are in the show notes. I'll be back soon with some more dead conversations. And in the meantime, take good care of yourself and others. There's a cold fire, there's a crossfire, and there's something inside. And inside, and we'll never, never make it. And we'll never, never break it onto. [Music]