The father of two boys who were found dead in a room in Bolton after taking ecstasy they bought on the dark web has told Manx Radio he believes his sons would have been saved if drugs were decriminalised.
It's been a decade since brothers Jacques and Torin Lakeman, from Port St Mary, died.
Ray Lakeman, who is advocating for a law change, accepts it's difficult to stop young people from experimenting.
Hi I'm Chanel, one of the journalists at Meng's radio. Welcome to the latest edition of Meng's radio newscast. Well in the first place it's pretty hard to reckon that it's 10 years. It just seems like yesterday and we can remember almost exactly minute for minute what happened over on the night when we realized that something had happened and that's why this CD called something happened. We didn't know quite what had happened. It was on the Sunday evening, they'd been to see a football match on the Saturday, Manchester United versus Hull and on the Sunday they were supposed to have got home. So my Jack was living in London with my mother and touring was in Aboristrith at university and we contacted them and my mother said that Jack hadn't got home. It's about half past six on Sunday evening and he said that he'd be back for five o'clock and they got into a habit of going to a pub quiz and he hadn't turned up so she was a little bit worried that it's concerned and we rang him up to see where he was and nothing on his phone and you know touring the same, we rang him up. There was nothing from him so we left it a couple of hours and rang again and still nothing. We hadn't turned up the moment. She was getting very worried by this stage and nothing from touring, nothing on either of the phones. So we were starting to really panic by that time. We contacted touring's lodgings and nobody had seen him. He hadn't turned up there either so they were getting worried as well. So by midnight the last train had arrived, it should have arrived at Aboristrith. He wasn't on that. The trains were still theoretically coming into London from Manchester but if touring hadn't got back to Aboristrith there was wondered what had happened to Jack. So we were wondering something had happened to both of them basically and we started by ringing up Manchester Police. It was the first place we started and they had nothing to tell us. They suggested we rang up the hospitals so I rang up the local hospitals. This was after midnight. Manchester Police again they said they probably found a couple of girls from Manchester and were staying over and I said well I thought it was very unlikely it was the first time they'd been away from home. It didn't sound like the sort of thing they would do in the circumstances. Anyway we'd reached the stage where we thought there's something definitely happened. We'll report them missing. So we reported them missing and all through the night and deep into Monday morning we were getting phone calls from the police. The Met were dealing with it in London and the Aboristrith Police were dealing with it on their end and the Manchester Police were dealing with it and it was going on all day and we never really got anywhere. So what happened something happened on the back of the CD is my memory of the day. It's quite truncated by necessity because it was quite involved. We were just waiting or waiting to hear from somebody and we got stonewalled. Nobody was saying what would happen and something that obviously happened by that time. We knew something and of course you make up all kinds of scenarios and we never voiced the worst one. We were trying to think of any other possibility and eventually I rang Manchester United because I remembered I'd booked the tickets and I had to book into the seats and I rang up and said they to them. We didn't even know that they'd definitely been to the football match. We had no confirmation that they'd been to and we didn't know where they were staying. So they said they could confirm that they'd been to the football match and they said we can't tell you we've got some news but we can't tell you because of data protection. So that was all they would tell us and the police would be in touch in Duke also and Aboristrith police would be in touch. So I rang Abbot police and I was told he was in the meeting and then I rang again an hour later and I was told he was in the meeting and this went on for ages and ages. So whatever this meeting was was a long one. And then about quarter past eight on the Sunday night there was a knock on the door and it was two policemen and we've been speculating all day. So I mean literally we saw two policemen standing there and all Sarah said when they came into the room the first thing she said was you know Abbot come here to tell us something we already know and they confirmed it and it was just incredulity really. It was even though we really expected it because there was no other explanation but we didn't know at hand and they just said they'd been found in this room in Bolton they'd been found at two o'clock on the Monday morning. So by the time I'd spoken to Manchester United they'd already knew which is why they couldn't say anything. They couldn't say anything until they were properly identified and they did it with documents that they had on them and the police informed us. And then everything went into overdrive it was it was it was well I cannot describe it and you know even you know people say well I think we like well you wouldn't want to understand it you wouldn't ever want to be in that position. So people say with the best intentions we understand and you don't and you know there's no reason why anybody really really should and I wouldn't want you to be in that position again. But very very quickly we decided that you know we wanted them to be remembered. The police said one other thing when they turned up and that was it was something they'd been bibed and they didn't know go any further than that. It was obviously an accidental death of some sort which is something they've taken. And we automatically surmised that it was the older brother Jack who'd bought the stuff. He'd had indulged in the past. We knew that he'd tried various substances and it was absolutely shocking when a couple of weeks later we found out he was the the youngest one who had never shown any interest in drugs and you know when we knew about his brother he reacted very very angrily to his drug taking. And yeah it was it was it was that was something that was that was even harder to take on top of the deaths. Yeah so we we we thought are we going to move on from this you know and having to live with it and deal with it which we live with it every day. And it it can't say gets it gets easier because you never forget and every time we see people you know there's friends who know the same age as them they're getting married in relationships traveling going all over the world. You know it's friends are having grandchildren you know and he was best not to think of what what what could have been because it's it just wasn't so we don't dwell too much on that sort of thing. But I know despite everything that you've been through each year you still have something special in memory of them to honour them. Well yes we we've right from the very first start of the first couple of months they died and you know the first of December and it would it Jack would have been 21 in the February. It was just three months afterwards and they still hadn't had the inquest the inquest was delayed until April it took some time to do it. They they they had an initial inquest and they released the body so that was all very quick but the inquest wasn't until April. But we wanted to do something on Jack's birthday and we thought if he was 21st he would have had a celebration and we thought we'd we'd try our best to celebrate it. So we we hired the town hall in Port St Mary and we got some bands to play and we and Chip Bugane did the disjoc in and there's a we've got a few people in people that have played with the boys before because Jack had played on the circuit a bit and he was quite well respected and they were in a band called Freaky Stilts again in the Hot Rocks and they were quite well known in down the south and played quite a few gigs down there. So we tried to get as you know many people who was possible a short notice and it was short notice to do this gig and we invited people along and we had a collection for charity and it went down very well and you know we thought after that it came up to the anniversary the first anniversary and we thought well let's do that again. And so we did it round about the the nearest weekend to the anniversary on the on the Saturday. We started putting on a concert and asking various people to do it and we were amazed how many wanted to do it right from the beginning and we did it every year for you know for seven eight years and it was getting bigger and bigger and bigger so there were more and more bands wanting to do it. Sometimes we had as many as five bands on a night which meant they didn't get much time to play but they all wanted to do it and that was what was really great about it and eventually it got to the stage where we were playing at the falcons nest in Port Aaron we'd been there for a few years and we were doing it over two nights and you know the last time we did it there was there was four bands on for each night Friday and Saturday and two different disc jockeys and we were getting raised money for charity and every every year we raised even more money if we were raising money for Parkinson's Island man and it got bigger and bigger and I thought well there were still bands wanting to keep asking you know can we play next year and we can and it was getting too big and I thought we can't sustain this it was it was a bit of a strain when it was it was happening we kept wondering Sarah said you you worry too much and I was always worried that nobody had come and every year more people were coming and we raised more money and that wasn't a problem but I thought I just can't do this anymore what can I do what can we do now and I thought we've got all these people who want to help and want to support us perhaps we can get we can make CD so I talked to Jip again about it and he said well yeah we can do that and we'll put out a letter saying what we want to do and float it send it out to the bands that we know people we want to contribute so we did and you know it ended up with us with 17 tracks the only stipulation when we made was that it should be an original piece of work and it was it was phenomenal the response that we got so we got um Kieran Handyfan to do the artwork you know it all came together it took longer than I thought it would but we kept delaying it for various reasons because there were some some people that I really wanted to be part of it and couldn't couldn't do it at the time and things got put off and put off but eventually I ended up with you know everybody that I really wanted to contribute um were actually did a track and there were a few others that we we had had ours and they hadn't come up with anything and by the time we decided to call it a day but um you know I don't think we could have got anything more on it was 17 tracks is a lot on the CD and we may have squeezed on one more but you know there's a limited amount of space on a CD anyway so we're really really pleased with the results and we did a launch for all the people who could get there who'd contributed on Saturday night last Saturday and at the Albert to Baltimore and Mary and you know they've taken away copies and this that now so it's going to be widely circulated it's going to be available um it's there's you can get copies in trending pool airing and Talden stars in Port St Mary they've got copies if anybody wants to pick them up and uh it's free that's the that's the that's the thing we wanted to read to as many people as possible we want we think it's worth people hearing um it's in memory of touring and jack I think it's a really good way to remember them it's a permanent thing something that you know if uh a concert's easily forgotten but a CD well you'll always have even if you haven't got a CD player people keep saying oh we haven't got a CD player so are you going to stream it well we we're thinking of doing that but at the moment it's on CD only and you know it's you should get one um after you know listening to it well throughout all of that those months of working with everyone going through the discussions going through the artwork choosing everything finally seeing that final product in your hand you know talk me through those emotions or even listening to those first few songs well it was it was very interesting the whole process because I'd always insisted that I didn't want to hear any other tracks until they were they'd all been completed so uh jip who was producing it was the only one who'd actually heard all of them and eventually he he said right it's all done I've mixed mixed them all um and he sent me a copy to listen to and my wife and I were listening to it and that's the first time we heard it and we thought we'd rearranged the running order a little bit so we suggested to jip he was quite happy with the way we wanted to our choice altogether um so it was really it was really good and the same same with the artwork because I didn't know what Kieran was was going to do I gave him a few suggestions and I didn't know whether he was going to act on them or how he was going to interpret them and he is he's very creative anyway but he's I've been really really impressed I originally asked him it's one of the first things we the boys when they were younger were working part-time at the sound cath age Jack was working full-time and Sorin was working part-time so I had this idea of don't they picture the night hawks and there's a very famous painting about I can't remember them American artists off and oh hopper Edward Hopper and I thought I liked that painting and I said and Kieran was done this calendar of interpretations of famous paintings that was adapted to a monk setting it was really clever and I thought oh wonder if he could do that with his Edward Hopper picture and make it into the cafe was the sound cafe and he was all done so he said yeah I can do that and so he did the he did it all and it's absolutely brilliant he's got the same same figures so the background's like in the the hopper picture and it's obviously the same background but it's you can tell it's in the sound cafe and it's got Jack and Torin behind the bar and it was great so I thought well he's the obvious person to ask to do this and he was like what he did was was absolutely incredible and I didn't again I didn't know what he'd done until he'd actually he said right I've got it finished and I thought it was absolutely well it was spot on it couldn't it couldn't have been better I couldn't imagine it anything better and it was so you know the the inner sleeve where he's got the we've done the track listings it was it was just he's done it like a school exercise book with sketches of these Warhammer figures and with the drawing dancing skeleton which Torin had done and it was just what Torin would have done it was I could just imagine him writing that in this in this notebook what he was doodling supposed to be doing his schoolwork and this that and the other and it was just absolutely perfect so it's it's worth getting just for the it's just for the artwork what's your one of your favorite songs from the other oh I really couldn't say I they're all they're all they're all they're all so different really so every time every time I hear it I think I'm just grateful that somebody was bothered to do it and you know for Jack and Torin you know there's the fact that somebody you know in fact there's there's there's three tracks on there that I wrote myself and I'm actually wobbling or making some croony or one of them and which was a nice process you know it was I got I asked for somebody to play the piano and I knew a girl who I used to teach and Charles at Brunt and I said you know would you like to do play piano on this so so we managed to you know get this as I told her what she wanted to do because I can't play anything and yes so we did that and we we got somebody else to sing back in vocals and then I had some lyrics for a couple of other things and I just gave them to other musicians and said look I'd you know I'd like to see you know these songs done but I'd like you to do them because they were people who knew Jack and Torin and we were possibly struggling to come up with something of their own so I said well I've got these words and they said well right we can do the music and yeah and they they they both turned out to be not what I really expected at all but both sounded all totally different from how I visualized them yeah so I'm really I'm really proud of all of them you know so if I have a favorite I you know it changed tomorrow it changed tomorrow that's the one is that the one that you one of them that you wrote no no it's just you know it's funny you know it's I really don't I don't have a favorite I think it'd be unfair to have a favorite if I said that's my favorite you can say well yeah well they wouldn't say that but what about my track you know but no I'm just I'm just so happy so so pleased with everybody did it every what we didn't have to force anybody you know it just came together yeah it took it took time because people said oh we haven't got anything quite yet or you know we're doing it with and some some people sometimes it was a band who just wanted to do a track as as the whole band and then other times it was people working with other people which was really good it was a collaborative thing on on various tracks and yeah and they're all different they're all in that and it's it's a fantastic compilation a lot of some people believe you know even though you're loved one passes you they're still around you when listening to any of the songs throughout this process or anything you know did did you feel their presence did you feel as though they were around you or they were making things work so things did move along as the way that it did well I mean it's some some of the tracks of you know that they're not obviously associated with with the boys you say well why is that on there for instance the the mad daddy one is right that train and I said to Dolan you know would you could you got a song that you could do and he thought when he said well he'd do a cover or something I said well I don't really want covers I said I'd rather have something original so he said well I'm working on this train song he said because I know Jacques my oldest one he said he liked you know for some prison blues and these country songs we had trains in so I said well that's great you know so you know it could have been anything but it meant something it was a train song and Dolan you know remembered that I'll relight these these strange songs so and lots of you know there are lots of things like that you know you know people started with a guitar riff because Jack was really good on the guitar and you could see why somebody would said oh I've got this guitar riff and would work something around it so you know but people came at it for different directions just a little of inspiration feeling and and things like that and you know they're sort of original so I don't really know and I haven't really asked what the the thought process is or the thing what the connection is you know it's maybe just the sound that the boys would have loved you know a particular style or something of music that they would have appreciated so it might just be that it's not necessarily in the title or the or the you know all the words but that could be that could be the link as well right um I know you've released the CD and people can go and find it around the island is there anything that you have planned for the 10 years for the boys we have not we're actually going away this this weekend for going off island it's it's difficult enough at the best of times before previous to this we've always had a concert and things to look forward to and we didn't do it last year because we were doing the CD we're not doing um doing one this year because the CD is out so we're not really going to we're not really going to do anything we might be I've talked to people in about doing something in the new year so you know I think there's enough people who want to do it and they're enthusiastic to do it um it depends on exactly how we you know how well really how I feel like it whether I want to put on another large show um and when I'm not getting any older you know I'm not getting any younger you know I'm uh so and I can't stay out all night like I used to it was you know we were up until after midnight on Saturday when we launched the CD and it was way past my bedtime it was usually in bed by 10 o'clock so yeah I but when we'd done these gigs in the past you know it's been one o'clock I passed one into a clock in the morning but before I got home and they were great nights great atmosphere but um age catches up with you in the end um can I ask um and you can tell me if you want to chat a little bit about this side of it I know the last time we spoke um we had I think it was the Liverpool the John Moore report um and you know just getting it um getting league not league was it not legalization um well they criminalization decriminalization yes um are you still fighting that fight is that something that you're still busy close working closely yes um you know I I still work with anyone's child there's a charity um in in England that are working their families who've been involved not necessarily who lost people to drugs although some of them have um but people have been impacted by the drug laws I mean they might have had sons and daughters who have been in prison for drug use and things like that and you know who are aware of how they've been impacted um and you know believe that a change in the drug laws are due I would say inevitable um I think there is still some resistance to it uh there are um there are legal problems to do in it that need to be resolved but I think internationally there is a growing awareness that what we are currently doing is not working um I think even locally it's it's you know there's things that we are we are doing and still could be doing but you know it isn't working I hear everyday stories about the availability of drugs um read about police raids and seizures and if that was enough to stop it it would have stopped by now and we we have to um accept that there is a market it's got nothing to do with like in the idea I I I have more more reason than most people um to know the impact of taking drugs what it can do to families what it can do to communities um and I would be perfectly happy to support any legalization or any legislation um that if it worked and if we could just stop people taking drugs I'd be all for it if it worked and it it's it's plain to me and it should be plain to everybody that as as it's wishful thinking is never going to happen Pandora's box has been opened you know drugs are available people do want to take drugs whether you like it or not whether the government likes it or not you know um and the police like it or not whatever they choose to believe people are going to do it and we are um you know convicting and persecuting I was even used the word persecuting people for lifestyle choices um that we don't like and we we don't do that with other other substances and things like that and uh you know I came across a really good quote the other week when I was at an anyone's child meeting and um it was good people break bad laws and um I think that's true I mean my sons were good people uh they broke the law and they paid the ultimate price for it but I know and I think it's provable that their deaths were unnecessary and had the law been different and people been more understanding about the substance abuse and substance uses uh these things could be uh made safer and it's all we can do is make it safer because we're not going to stop people from from indulging no matter what we do so I'm hopeful and I'm not in the immediate future I am hopeful though that somehow some progress will be made and people start acknowledging um you know the failings that we've we've got in the system that we have I think my last question and you can say if you want to answer not you know a lot of people says time heals 10 years later does time heal does it get any better uh I don't think it heals I think um people change and adapt and I think um my wife and I have changed and adapted to to what happened um we we can't change what happened um we we could either we decided very early on because we went through a really bad when it first happened in really bad period we just thought we don't we don't want to there's no point in carrying on there is you know for six months it was like that what what are we doing here well what is the point um and um you know but we very quickly got over we came through that and said we you know we're going to we're going to do something here and we don't want the boys to be forgotten you know we can't we can't pretend it didn't happen we don't really know why because we didn't know that what we didn't know there was a real problem we we didn't know that what they were doing really you know we knew that jack was doing a bit bits and pieces but we didn't know that touring was and you know you can warn you can warn people though as much as you like are the dangers of drug taking and things like that and the concept possible consequences uh but you know considering the amount of drug taking that there is you know there are relatively few deaths but the deaths that there are um you know there could be even fewer if we had different drug laws and you know it's there's a stigma attached to um drug taking the people and drug deaths and things like well i'm not having them you know um my boys are not bad lads um you know what happened was was tragic in every sense of the word and if it could happen to them it could happen to anybody i really believe that you know the the possibilities of your child when they get independent of trying substances are very very high and you know there's always a possibility if it's unregulated and it's got from a legal source which it was almost certain to be because we've prohibited so you're already going to be taking a bigger risk then you it's not then is necessary you know and you can't stop if you can't stop people from experiencing young people do you know wish you could but then you know they wouldn't be young people and they you know we encourage people to try different things different experiences you know and then we say you you mustn't do that you know and we only do it with drugs you know if everything else everything else has health and safety rules attached to it and you're told about them with drugs you just say don't say just say no or you're going to get into trouble you know but it it'd be wonderful if it weren't if you don't magic wand but it hasn't worked since we you know they've been prohibited in 1971 it hasn't worked hasn't worked since it's got worse the situation's got worse and we're still doing the same thing I'm thinking it's going to change I can't believe it really Thank you for making it to the end of the Manxeradian newscast you are obviously someone with exquisite taste may I politely suggest you might want to subscribe to this and a wide range of Manxeradia podcasts at your favorite podcast provider so our best bits will magically appear on your smartphone thank you (gentle music) You
