The Killer B's: Joel Blank & Jeremy Branham
12/02 Hour 1 - What Should Azeez Al-Shaair Have Done? Was His Hit Dirty?
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Everybody's happy that the Texan's won yesterday? We'll get to the Aziz stuff in 10 minutes. Rico Ryan's had some things to say today, it's going to be pretty fun to listen to. But a busy show all Mondays are in the NFL season, we'll hand out game balls, what do you believe after this college football weekend? Regular season is over, championship week is here, lots to talk about in college football. The rivalry renewed, can we call it a rivalry whenever it's a beatdown? I'm a coosier, I don't have anything to stand on here. I don't have a dog to fight either, but at the end of the day, if they would have had a decent play call, it might have been a better game. Colin Klein was getting a couple of understood math, they might have still been in the game. You need the two possessions, bro, kick the field goal. There's jokes there that I'm going to stay away from, because I can't, I really don't have any leg to stand on today. Football team, their season is done, U of H basketball went one and two, so I can't really talk today. But I'm an equal opportunity hater, we all knew, although that. I don't ignore in victory, we'll talk about CJ Stroud, all of that. Where are the Texans in terms of perception in the NFL? Are they close to the top of the AFC or they're closer to the bottom of the AFC? I have a feeling blankers, I'm going to be the positive guy in the show today, just looking at the notes and the rundown between you and I think Brian, I feel like I'm going to be the positive of the trio, which is not a very comfortable place to be in. I'm not overly positive. I never want to be confused as an internal optimist. I like to say I'm a realist. I think most people would say I'm probably a pessimist, but what, what is your biggest takeaway from yesterday's win? Not the Aziz al-Shire fight. We'll save that for a few. I'm going to save that. I think just overall it was just very underwhelming. It was just another, another game on tape for a team that can't seem to put both sides of the football together and it just seems like at a certain point, you just have to call them for what they are and it's a very inconsistent football team and it's a team where when the defense plays, well, it used to be game by game and now it's half by half where D'Amico celebrating a win because they scored 17 points in the second half. Hey, and he tells us, you know, he really doesn't listen to what any of the media says or anybody's talking about, but then he, you know, he got on the bandwagon of they can't score in the second half, but then the defense couldn't play very well in the second half and made Mack Jones look like a legitimate NFL quarterback. And I think the inconsistencies are still there this late in the season. That's extremely frustrating when you're supposed to pound a very bad football team. Yeah, see, I, I think that the game was not nearly as close as the final score indicated. I feel like the Texans were very much in control of that game for a variety of different reasons. They never trailed in the game. They were up by double figures for most of the second half and Jacksonville never had the football with a chance to take the lead ever. Did the Texans take their foot off the gas in the fourth quarter and let Jacksonville creep back in to where if they got a stop, then all of a sudden they do have the football with a chance to take the lead or maybe tie the game. Sure. I do think that they let their foot off the gas, but in terms of this being a competitive game yesterday, I know that the margin of victory was only three points. I actually feel like the Texans won convincingly. Yeah, I just, I don't feel that way. And I felt like there were misses again. We talked about the last time these two teams played and Brian Thomas Jr. was wide open and Lawrence missed him and Mack Jones missed him again in this game. And I just feel like differently than you. When I was watching it, I kept looking at it going. This looks like another game where they're just going to screw around and toy around with a team too much and it's going to bite him in the butt. And, and the offensive line for the most part, I know D'Amico gave him a game ball, but essentially the offensive line for a majority of the game, especially the internal offensive line. The blocking wasn't great. Mixon was doing his best with his cutbacks and doing what he needed to do to try and log those yards. Biggest yard, his chunk yard plays were when the tight end was chipping or moving or maybe even sometimes on another back. But overall, I just never had the feeling you did. I never had the feeling they were in total control of that game. I mean, they were up 11 and Jacksonville never had a chance to win the game ever. Never had a chance to win the game, but they cut it to three and they shouldn't have done that. And in the third quarter, it was still a one score game for the majority of the third quarter. And then they, they, they, they took the lead. They're 17. They're 17. There were so many missed opportunities. So many points left on the board left, left off the board. So many things where they could have buried this team and they didn't. That's what's really frustrating. Yeah. I agree with you on the burying part. Like I do think that they took their foot off the gas to find a little 12 minutes of the game and allowed Jacksonville to creep back in. But to me, it was like a baseball game when you're up by six runs and you're throwing your mop up relievers. And then all of a sudden it's a two run game in the ninth and you bring in your closer three up three down ball game over that. That's the, the feeling that I got. And if you look how Demiko was using his defensive substitution patterns and that fourth quarter too, there were a lot of backups playing in that fourth quarter. I will tell you this, the dirt watching the game and then watching it back this morning to kind of verify it, but it did feel like they were in a prevent almost the whole fourth quarter. Like to your point, between the guys that were in the game and the way they were playing, it just feel like it felt like it was a bend, don't break situation. And that was why Jacksonville was able to break their streak of, of, you know, not scoring touchdowns and do the things that Mac Jones was able to do. And they were playing extremely fast too. But overall, I still had that, that incomplete feeling of there was so much left on the bone. Yeah, I don't think they played a perfect game by any stretch of the imagination, but they did go on the road, never trout in the ball game. They led from pillar to post. They're up by 17 and Jacksonville never had a ball, had the ball in the fourth quarter with it with a chance to win it. I disagree with you about the offensive line too. I think this is as good as the offense, not that it's good, not that it's great, but I think that this is the best the offensive line has looked under this new configuration. You had just two sacks in this game, which I know Jacksonville is not good defensively, but the strength of their defense is their defensive line. You, you held and you only got your quarterback sacked twice. You ran for over a hundred yards on the ground. If you told me that the offensive line produced that each and every game the rest of the year, I would gladly take that. I'll take two sacks every single game from here on out. I'll take a hundred yards on the ground from here on out. So I thought the offensive line was, was good. Was it game ball worthy to your point? Probably not. I think that was some psychology from Demico Ryan's trying to boost them around the confidence of a struggling unit, but I would take what they produced every single game from here on out. I think that's the biggest thing for me is the fact that you might be right. This might be the best that we're going to get. And they changed and tweaked the game plan enough so that he wasn't getting knocked around and getting his head potentially taken off on every play. But at the same time, did it look like an above average offensive line in the NFL? I don't think so. I think the Jags have one of the lowest rated defenses in the league overall. I mean, you feel good about the fact that you were able to do enough to keep CJ from getting, you know, crushed and beat up the way he's been getting beat up. But I was frustrated a majority of the game again with mixing and with the fact that you have a bad Thanksgiving. No, I feel like you're a little bit grumpy about the Houston Texans. And I understand that I'm trying to be as honest as I can to be about a team because so many people have these massive aspirations for this team. And I just don't see it. And I'm seeing it less and less. I'm holding out hope. I'm believing that at a certain point, you know, everything's going to come together. They're going to put it all together and they're going to be a team that's worthy of all the praise that they got. And instead, I'm sitting there asking myself more questions than finding answers. I feel like you're looking at a big picture, which is fair to do. And I don't think you're wrong from a big picture point of view, but I don't feel like there's more questions after yesterday's game. I think they were better in certain areas that they have struggled like we talk about the offensive line struggling all year. They've been one of the worst offensive lines in the entire NFL. I thought they were much better yesterday. We talk about this being a team that's heavily penalized and they are they have been for two years in a row. They have three penalties yesterday, like that's an improvement to where they've been consistently. Look, I thought Dalton Schultz played the best game. He's played all season long and it's not just the touchdown because yeah, that was a walk in touchdown. He's, you know, roaming down the right sideline and Brian, who can gain five yards behind an NFL offensive line and a half-back dive. I mean, Brian would have scored a touchdown on that play, but to me was the one, OK, fourth and two in traffic makes a tough catch on fourth and two. He's trying to leap over a defender. That's the best I thought Dalton Schultz's look. They're using three titles and he's got some yards there. He got some yards there, but the fourth and two to me was the big play for someone. But I can, I can counter that by saying early in the game, there was a blatant miss block where where Alan came came in, beat him. He basically just whiffed on him and Alan got in and got to CJ and then on the one completion early in the game, he caught it and was anticipating making business decisions that he was going to get hit. He caught it and turned and covered and there was no one there and then he went, oh, I might as well run a little bit more. And then he hit the ground. I didn't say he was only tied in. I said he played the best game of all year. I would also push back a little bit like I, it's great that he makes contested catches, but he's in part having to make contested catches because he gets zero separation. He's not seeing him running loose down the sideline, a touchdown, how many yards of separation on that play? 50. Yeah, thanks to the Jaguars bottom three defense. I was he got a separation on that one for sure. But yeah, it's just like, it's like, it's great that he makes the contested catch over not making it. But at the same time, it's hard to praise him too much because part of the reason why you're having to make contested catches because he gets, I mean, how many times, what game is Dalton Schultz been better than yesterday? This year? Yes. I mean, it's a low bar, but I guess none. Okay. Then stop arguing with me. I said it was the best game that Dalton Schultz has played. I didn't say it was a great game for a tight end. Considering that was his first touchdown of the year too. I mean, was there a game when he had more yards? Probably. Probably because he didn't go nuts in terms of volume. I feel like there was one other game where he had a fairly, I mean, five for 61, like that's not a huge volume game. It is one of his like highest of the year. Now I'm curious, this highest yardage game of the year, he had a 66 yarder. Yeah. It's Detroit. He gets 66 against Detroit. Yeah. So I mean, he's had higher games with rechets. Yeah. Actually, this matched the his season high in receptions. He's done. He's had five catches in two games now. So yeah, I mean, easily is best game from a statistical point of view. I thought the offensive line better. They weren't as penalized as much. I thought their offensive identity was better as a whole, quite frankly. No, yes, the other teams on scholarship too and the other teams, the worst defense in the NFL, but I thought their offensive identity was better. More play action. They were throwing the pass quicker passes, which I think is vital behind this offensive line. Nico Collins had a 100 yard game, a catch is for 119 yards, I believe it's his first 100 yard game since returning from injury, cementing himself, in my opinion, is a top seven wide receiver in the NFL. That's nice to see. And then look, the final drive. Look, I don't care who you're playing. They do have a good defensive line. Everybody in the stadium, all 22,000 of them in Jacksonville, Duvall with the, with the upper deck tarped off because their fan base is so lousy. The final drive, everybody in that stadium, all 2,200 of them know that you're running the football down their throats and you were able to pick up two first downs when everybody knew you were going to be running the football. I give credit to the Houston Texans for that. Okay. And this is fun. This is like a role reversal in some ways because on the flip side of that, when, when looking at what they did and what they were able to do, aside from Nico Collins and God bless Nico Collins and thank God he was there and a little of Tank Dell, they got the rest of the receivers. I'm just waiting for somebody else to try and grasp the opportunity and do something more. And I know that, you know, Nico's a security blanket and he loves throwing to him and that's great. At the same time, I want to see more from at least one other wide receiver, aside from an unbelievable block on the last play, to your point from Robert Woods to get that final first down. But it's just, again, the fact that we've been waiting all this time to this point in the season to have, you know, to have some other guys step up to have other things go their way. It's a win. You were supposed to get this win. The stretch of the schedule where, you know, a lot of people were predicting three and oh, you went two and one. But you were in my book, you were looking to set the state, you're correct. Like, you're right. Big picture to kind of get everybody set that, Hey, this is a really good football team and we're going to dominate for these three games against lesser than teams. And I just come away from that wanting so much more going. I don't think they did that. What if the game ended with Tim and his left to play in the fourth quarter and they're up to 17? Would you say they dominated? I still don't think they dominated, but they did it. What if the game ended 10 minutes early? I'm not saying they played a complete game, but I'm saying they were in control of this game for sure. Convincing win. Yes, but I don't think they dominate. I think all game. You just watch that game. I don't think they showed pure domination in any aspects of football. Yeah. It's hard to say they dominate when you let six to three and half time. I think any time you're up by 17 and in a film game, you've shown the domination. They had a fail. They dominated the third quarter for sure, but I mean half time at six to three and obviously the final scores three was 17 17, they're like a great box. They're just filling out the opposition plan. Have you not seen them? No, I've seen them blow a 16 point lead. I mean, say Rosa Fels, but with 17 point lead, that is different though. 16 and 17 is a major difference. Like I know. Yeah, yeah. I know it's I know it's only one point like, well, it's not a major difference, Brian, I'm it's one point. It is a three. It is a three position game versus two position game and then who you did it against too. I mean, if they blow a 17 point lead against the Jacksonville Jaguars, it's a greater far greater sin than blowing a 16 point lead against the Detroit Lions. But yeah, I feel like I need to be positive with all the negativity and the Texans have a commanding two game lead the division commanding. They enter the by. They're going to get fresh. They're going to run because of the type. I almost wore my homework hat today, but I couldn't find it. Right. Technically. Yeah, well technically it's two, but they own the type right here. So like some I don't think it's tech. I think it's the opposite of technically technically it's still yeah technically it's two, but like in layman's terms, it's three realistically. Yeah, that's a good word. That's a good word for that. I really don't know the word for here. I am criticizing and I have no idea how to fix it. That's that's poor. That's poor job, Branham. All right. 713 780 ESP and HRNP listener line, tons to get to today. Lots to get to. What do you believe in in college football? Don't ignore in victory, which you wouldn't in defeat, which is going to be easy for some of you guys. Some of you guys are going to have a very easy time doing that game balls from around the NFL as well. We returned the hit heard around the AFC South Aziz al Shire can cussing Trevor Lawrence dirty, clean, dirtiest hits in the history of the NFL. DeVico Ryan's a complete 180 from yesterday to today. Where do you stand on the hit that Aziz al Shire had on Trevor Lords 713 7803776, the HRNP listener line. We're on Twitch Twitch.tv slash ESPN 97 five, YouTube and ESPN Houston. We're on Twitter at ESPN nine seven five blankers at Pac-Man Joel Bryan. It's sacked by B. Mac. I'm a Jeremy Branham. We are the bees on ESPN 97 five and ESPN 92 five. You found the killer beads live from the Veritex community bank studios. There's Joel Planken, Jeremy Branham. Just a little that had major Nick Castellano's fly ball to the left moment. Do you remember how they cut because they happened first play after they cut back from break? Do you remember what they were talking about whenever they cut back from break? No, I've forgotten by now. They were talking about his Mike cleats my cause and how he's helping out all these kids. And then the silent reporters actually talking at the snap of the play and how much good he does and the play by play guy goes how much good he's doing rolls to the boom. It was very Nick Castellano's fly ball to the left moment. It's like, oh, you're talking about this. And then all of a sudden he's concussed and laying down unconscious on the field. Yeah, it was Laura Oakenen or whatever. And every single time they went to where she was like to humanize this a little bit on every one of her reports and she was humanizing it. And then he got crushed. Yeah, he got he got popped and then the other like we shouldn't I guess we're having too much, you know, we're taking this too lightly, maybe too much levity here. But it was really, I don't want us to use the word funny, but it was funny that everybody's fighting a huge melee and you have a dude that's lying motionless in the middle of it all. It was just stepping right near him where one of the offensive lineman was like literally pushing people like, don't step on Trevor while you're fighting. They're walking over his grave to throw some punches, which look, I like the drama in sports. I don't like to see a quarterback or any player lay their motionless like Trevor Lawrence did. That was scary to see. I hate seeing that. He has tweeted since says he's doing okay, which is good news, but he went full to and it's always scary when you see somebody go full to. So of course, hoping that Trevor Lawrence is doing well and he's tweeting out saying that he's doing well. So I trust that he is here was we're going to play all the sound bites to this and we'll give our takes. And where do you stand on this? The, the, the level of dirtiness to this hit, whether you think it was dirty or not. 713-780-ESPN HRMP listener line, 713-780-3776. I was a little disappointed with DeMico Ryan yesterday for not having the back of his player. Like even more, like no matter where you stand on it is a head coach. I think you need to have the back of your player. And yesterday, DeMico was like, on the fence, he gave a very political answer. I don't think that he really gave a take one way or the other. Like you say, we don't coach that, but at the same time, it's an unfortunate player. Here was DeMico Ryan's after the game yesterday on the Aziz hit on Trevor Lawrence. Yeah, it's unfortunate with the hit with the Z's. It's, it's not what we're coaching. It's just want to be smart and everything we do and I hurt the team, get a penalty there. We just have to be smarter when the quarterback is going down. It's unfortunate play, not representative of who a Z's is, like Z's a smart player, really great leader for us and you know, we hurt. We felt his presence not being there and that his loss, it really affected us on the defensive side. Just not what we're coaching. I didn't want to see the melee and all of the after map. It's not what we're about, it's not representative of us. So we, you know, I'll talk to a Z's addressing personally and we'll move forward from it. I wouldn't, I wouldn't say that he reprimanded a Z's but he kind of hinted at it. Also talked, I was unfortunate how it wasn't like cheap or dirty. I think he choose though. He chose those words very wisely, but he also didn't come to the fence of a Z's yesterday after the game. But I would push back just to say that that point, the best thing to do is to high road it to where you could say, Hey, I was only able to see it across the field in real time. We got to look at the tape. We got to go over some things, but Aziz is the good dude. He's, I don't think his intention has ever been to hurt somebody and you can do all those other things to talk about the character, the player and stuff, avoid possibly setting it up to admit that there was fault so that he could get fined or suspended, but at the same time, just basically high road it and say, Hey, we got to look at the tape. You know, things happen in game speed and we got to look at it, but it was an unfortunate situation because of what happened afterward. Yeah, I think that's fair. Now here was Demico Ryan's today, about 20 minutes ago, talking about the Aziz Al Shire hit on Trevor Lawrence with the entire Aziz, you know, situation, we stand behind Aziz and everything, you know, that came from that, of course, he unfortunately hit on the quarterback. But it's also, it's twofold, right? I mean, a lot of the quarterbacks in this day and age, they're trying to take advantage of the rule where they slide late and they try to get an extra yard and you know, you're a defender, a lot of onus is on the defender, right, whether it's on the sideline or where it's on the quarterback, you don't know what a guy is thinking. You don't know if a guy is standing up and he's continuing to run. You don't know. And then you get a late slide and you're, you know, you hit the guy. Unfortunately, that Trevor got hurt. We want to hope Trevor is okay, but it's also, if we're sliding, we have to get down. If we're getting out of bounds, we get out of bounds and that rule is there to protect the quarterbacks and we want our quarterbacks to be safe in the league. So we just have to be safe and we're sliding, make sure we're keeping our heads down. So, and the entire thing is, you know, Aziz hits the guy with their sideline over reacts and it turns out and turns into a melee. It wasn't our guys, it's their team overreacted, pushed our guy, dragging our guy to the sideline. So that's uncalled for on that side, we have to be better on the sidelines as well with both teams. I've never heard D'Amico Ryan's blast the other team the way that D'Amico Ryan's molested the Jacksonville Jaguars. So that was completely different than what he said yesterday yesterday. He was very political. We're going to back as ease, but we're not. That's not a representation of who we are as an organization or he the player. We don't coach that. We don't teach that. Today it was more, well, look, the quarterback has the owners to protect himself too, not to fight for extra yards, not to stay in bounds. Like if you're going to have the slide rule, you need to slide to protect yourself. And then not only does he defend Aziz al Shire, he tells the Jacksonville Jaguars that they overreacted and they went too far with this hit. This is, these are fighting words from D'Amico Ryan's. He didn't say it with like a lot of anger or a lot of aggression, but D'Amico Ryan saying that is unlike anything he's ever done in the past. Yeah, I mean, I'm glad he finally said something at a press conference like that. That's fine. And Danny, to me, there's just two ways to look at this. There's there's the play itself and there's the aftermath. And the one question on the aftermath is if there isn't the aftermath is he still ejected because I think that's why the officials said yes. The officials said after the game to pull reporters because there was two objections there. Right. I looked for it on the video. I couldn't see it. I saw where the flag was thrown, but they said they ejected him for throwing a punch. I didn't see a punch as the first melee he was in the back and then all of a sudden he was right there on the sideline whenever he got to the. Yeah, I saw him too, but I never saw the action. I saw the flag fly, but I think the camera cut to it late, but the the white cap, the officials said that it was his first name's land, which is a weird first name land, like a body of land. But he said that his ease was ejected for the hit and Jones was ejected for throwing a punch on the sideline. So he was already ejected before the melee started. Okay. All right. Yeah. Because for me, looking at the play, it's a dirty play. It's just a dirty play. And you know what? I understand that there are going to be players out there. There's not as in the minority, but like our friend Travis Johnson, Travis Johnson came out, said it was a legit hit. It was a good hit. You know, you got to understand that what you're trying to do when you're playing football and all these other things. I can't tell you what I would have done and what the proper distance to slide is. Is it three yards? Is it five yards? I just know that no matter what angle you show me and how I look at that play, he led with a forearm to the face mask shoulder and the show. He led with a forearm and if you would just want to throw the shoulder that would have been one thing. He led with the forearm directly to the upper shoulder and head area now leading with your forearms, not illegal, but at the same time when you're talking about a quarterback, you're talking about a quarterback that's going down and you're trying to change your movement. No matter what that you can't change the flight of your body. You don't lead with a forearm and you can try and do your best to fly over the top or at the very worst, you know, bear hug and you'll take the 15 if you get it, but understand that you can say, Hey, look, I'm trying to pull up, but at a certain point, there's a point of no return. But the fact that he led with the forearm and some of the angles I saw looked like he kind of loaded it up. That's where I was like in live speed, it might look a lot more serious. And I think it's an extreme over reaction to say it's one of the dirtiest plays about the dirtiest place in NFL history because there's been plenty. But at the same time, there's no doubt it was it was a, it was a dirty play. The, I think it borders on dirty. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that it, that it does not. Now, a lot of the reasoning to what you just said and really all the discord when it comes to this hit, the reason he got penalized is because it was late. He didn't get penalized because he led with the forearm. That's not a penalty. You can lead with a forearm. The only thing that you can't lead with in the NFL is the crown of the helmet. And he never leads with the crown of the helmet. He never makes hell with the helmet contact. His helmet never touches Trevor Lawrence's helmet. So leading with the forearm to me is your element and eventually rolls on to the face mask. Yes. And that's part of the, the initial, initial contacts, what matters where the contact was made initially, which was on the left shoulder. It was right here. It was right here. Like a lot of people are showing the behind the play, which doesn't show anything. Actually, it shows when Trevor Lawrence is finally fat on his back that his arm rolls into his face mask. The initial contact is on the shoulder. The reason he was penalized is because it was a late hit and that's an arguable. That's an arguable. Yes, it was a late hit. A shouldn't have been penalized. A hundred percent. Should he be an ejected? Some people would say no, I don't have a problem with the ejection because the NFL needs to protect these type of plays. I understand that from a business point of view. I get it. Any sort of un, unsportsmanlike penalty is going to lead to a fine and then you're going to be subject to a suspension and Adam Schefter's already tweeted out that there's speculation he's going to get suspended. And I believe he will get suspended too. And I understand that from a league perspective, totally get it. Now do I think the disease Al Shire was trying to take Trevor Lawrence's head off? I don't think that he was like you talk about flying over a player. That's incredibly difficult to do. I know that we see it, but you have a big incredible athlete and a ZZ Al Shire moving at a very high speed to another big, very athletic quarterback who is fighting for the first down and is taking a couple of stutter steps to before he even starts the slide whether or not he wants to get down. I don't know how avoidable this play is. Like even with even with a ZZ Al Shire flying in, like if Trevor Lawrence goes flat on his back, does he miss him? He might still miss him. So Trevor Lawrence being upright also leads to contact here. So yes, penalty, fine, ejection, whatever. I don't care. Suspension. Yes, that comes with a penalty. If you want to suspend him, I don't love it, but I totally understand where the league is coming from. But I don't know if a ZZ Al Shire's I like intent or motive was I'm going to kill Trevor Lawrence. I don't believe that was. I don't know what his intent was. I just feel like in my, my opinion, the fact is, is that you could still touch him. I believe that he looked like he was starting a slide early enough to where I believe you can touch him without hitting him like that. And I think that that is, that is the crux of everything. So I don't believe because there's an unwritten rule amongst NFL players that that brotherhood is that, you know, you don't, you're not trying to harm and name anybody. Some guys, like there are, there are always exceptions to the rule, right? But for the most part, that's the brotherhood, regardless of what team colors you put on week to week, because that changes. But at the same time, I just feel like he could have done differently to avoid a majority of the impact of that because the concussion happened when he hit his head. I mean, no, forearm hit his head. It wasn't the forearm that rattled it got to his face mask, but it was the after effect that once that contact was made, he slammed the back of his head extremely hard on the turn. Yeah, it was the whiplash on the turf. Like even if like we could sit here and argue like where the point of contact is, I'm pretty confident it was on the left shoulder, whether it was towards the face mask, the, the what did him in was that he got hit in the upper body and went flying backwards and he hit the back of his head on the turf, which immediately knocked him out, went full two of there. 713 780 ESPN. And I think the thing, your points are fair points. Do we get Brian's take on this? My biggest problem with this is the sensationalism we saw after the fact, some crazy things said about this hit 713 780 ESPN, where do you stand on it? And the sensationalism that was post hit from his ease, Al Shire 713 7803776, it's the beast, ESPN 97 5 and ESPN 92 5. About what the big O'Ryan's had to say today when he blasted the jags for their overreaction after the hit on his ease, Al Shire, someone said that they're going to enjoy his funeral. It's probably crossing a line there, which also feels like an overreaction. He was right. You're proving his point. What a great response there, Brian. That's the best thing you've ever said. Thank you. What was your take on the, I'll go ahead and pal him for the show since you said something really funny. Now, what was your take on the, the hit by his ease, Al Shire? I thought it was a dirty hit. Now, I've heard a lot of discourse back and forth today, and frankly, I think the extremes on both sides are idiotic. I think the people who are calling it the dirtiest that ever are dumb and clearly haven't watched football. And then the people who keep claiming that it wasn't laid, it wasn't dirty, it wasn't excessive. Also, I think either are just a hardo who wants to see people decapitated or haven't watched football. Look, when you watch the video, one, I think Lawrence, you can argue like Joel said, he's a three yards, five yards. You can argue the distance, the proper distance for a guy to slide, but to me, he gave himself up early enough. And when you look at what Aziz did in the moment, a lot of people are making a big deal about his bang, bang, his bang, bang, well, one, he, if you had time to throw his forearm, because if you're trying to make a regular tackle, you're not throwing your forearm up, you're wrapping up. If you're throwing the forearm, you're reacting in a way, maybe he's not trying to cause, obviously, the concussion, not saying that, but he's trying to do something other than a regular tackle at that point. If you're throwing the forearm, because I don't see a regular tackle though, like, I mean, people will go with all sorts of different tackles these days, they're not every, okay, how many tackles do you see in an NFL game where they're wrapping up every single time? Not every single time, sure. I mean, there was, there was a play, I think there was later in the game with Toa Toa just through his shoulder and the guy who didn't wrap up, and that was one of the things that was going to bring up later in the show. But to me, there's something different than a regular tackle if you're putting your forearm out, forearm out there, which does, to me, imply some level of intent as does when you see the Trevor Lawrence start to slide, and it's quick, I mean, you really have to look for it, but as these very quickly kind of shuffles his feet, he doesn't launch, I agree with you, I saw your, your, your, your tweets earlier today. I don't think he launched, but he does quickly kind of gather his feet to lean forward for the hit. I think he loads up. I don't think he loads up, but he loads up. The problem with loading up, he didn't, he didn't launch, but I wouldn't, I would also say he didn't try to avoid the hit. That's what I would say. Yeah. I think those are fair points. Like, there's no doubt it's late. There's, that's hard to avoid it, and it was, he unnecessarily threw a forearm. I don't see the problem with the forearm. I really don't like there's nothing against the rules that say you can't lead with a forearm. That does not exist, but anything, any part of the body would have been a penalty. If you, if you touch him with your pinky and he goes flying back like that, it's going to be a penalty. But that's the problem with this pinky. It's a penalty. It speaks to intense. That's a, that's a big talking point today about, well, he didn't tend to do it. Well, if you throw the forearm, what's the intent? Well, I think there was definitely intent for him to hit Trevor Lawrence. Yeah. No doubt about that. In a non regular tackling tackling. I don't understand the whole non regular tackling thing. Like what does that mean? Like non regular tackle. So what? Like this is a physical game. It's a contact game. I know. Like you hit people in football. Sure. You also break into all of you. But that's the intent though. That's because of the intent though. Yeah. It does. But it's also the fact that you have to be smarter than that from the simple perspective of the game has changed. And football has been so hyper focused on, like you said, you can't even touch his pinky finger that you've got to be smarter than that too, to understand that from the naked eye, if there's a forearm involved like that, and as it pertains to being a quarterback, they're going to overreact no matter what, and you got to be smarter than that. You get that. Like the problem that I have with the forearm is like, if anything hits Lawrence there, it's a penalty. That's why I'm taking such objection to the forearm specifically. Does it lead to the intent? Sure. But that has nothing to do with the penalty. That's entirely different conversation. No, I'm a conversation. But just fair. But it scores back and forth. Yeah. And I think that's a fair point to have. And I don't think that there's any doubt that he's trying to make contact. Like there's no doubt he's trying to make contact. Yeah. He's definitely not trying to avoid that. I agree with that 100%. With the actual penalty, why was he penalized here? It had nothing to do with the forearm. It was because it was late to a quarterback who was sliding. It didn't matter the body part that Aziz al-Shire hit Lawrence. You're right. But I also think that when, like to your point, if he just hit him in the shoulder with his shoulder, then I think that yes, it's still going to be late. But I think the fact that it exacerbates everything when the forearm is there and the extension is there. What do you think would have been different if it was a shoulder? Like in terms of like the aftermath, what would have changed? He still didn't try to avoid the hit, right? He's still going to get penalized. And I don't know if this would have eliminated the ejection or not, probably not, right? But I'm just saying that it makes it so much easier to call it immediately and everything eject him and go because of the fact that when you start throwing the, leading with the forearm and extending it, that is a violent, violent, not just a tackle. So is the shoulder on shoulder though, like to me. But shoulder on shoulder is the way you're taught to tackle. I don't think you're talking tackle with your forearm. Yeah. That's not what you're talking about. That's not a rule. Like you're talking about like the art of making a tackle. That's not a rule. But part of the conversation though is the reaction from the media, the reaction from the players when they see the arm. To me, it's a separate conversation. The shoulder to shoulder, if Trevor Lawrence gets hit shoulder to shoulder and still whiplash is back and hits his skull and the turf and gets concussed, nothing's different today. Nothing is different. It's still leads to a brawl. It still leads to an ejection. It still leads to the suspension that is looming. That didn't change matters. I think Jeremy, if he tries to go shoulder to shoulder, right? Or he's trying to pull up. He does get his shoulder by the way. If he's trying to pull up and you can see that he's trying to do his best to change directions at least a very minimum to try and minimize the hit and they go shoulder to shoulder. I think that that could factor into it. But when you talk about the fact that it's so egregious leading with a forearm and extending it, it made it very easy for the referee to immediately go, boom, that's it. I would argue that the egregiousness was the injury. I think when we look at the play, the thing that stands out the most is that he's tooling up and he is leaving the game in a cart. If he doesn't get hurt there, do you think it's an A ejection B suspension? I don't, I don't think it's a suspension. I think it's still borderline an ejection. I think if Trevor Lawrence hops up right there immediately, he doesn't get ejected from the game. I think because the league is so hyper focused on this right now, I think that there's still a chance he gets ejected. Okay. What do you think on that one? That one, that one's tough to say. If he pops up and shows right on up, he, yeah, I think he still gets fined because he gets fined. He gets fined. It doesn't get ejected. Yeah. They get fined so greasy now. Yeah. It's still a flag. He still gets fined. Rather not he's ejected. I could see him still getting injected, but I don't think he gets suspended. There's definitely some gray area there if Lawrence is not, not fencing on the field with his arms up in the two of us. I'll be, I'll be watching around the league to see if we get a case study on that where it's a very similar hit. Late hit. It's a flag on the, on the field. Right. And then if the quarterback does not get hurt, he pops right up. Let's see what happens. Let's see what happens. 71370 your ESPN. Not in this case, obviously, but I also think that one of the teaching points from, from, from a football perspective is you tell your quarterback to stay down to why fake the injury. Yeah. Not, not necessarily a fake an inch, but you stay down because then the impact is going to be, they're going to call that and they're going to be more egregious in the way. The Jaguars actually got nothing out of it because they, the fight, the fight because of Lawrence playing on the field led to offsetting. That's a whole other discussion that absolutely ludicrous where how the, the aftermath of all that is just offsetting battle teams. That is ridiculous. Yeah. I would agree with that. I would agree with that. 71370 0ES. I agree with you too. Laying down is going to sell the call. Yeah. It's kind of like, you know, in soccer or the Louis Skola thing. If you sell it, there's a better chance that they're going to be penalized for it. Man, I hope the quarterbacks aren't going full to it and then they pop right up and they're not, but look at when a team's going no huddle and going fast and Lane Kiffin's the king of, you know, telling a guy to make an inch. No, I think it's smart. Yeah. I think I think it's a teachable thing for a coach. 71370 ESPN. Let's go out to the HR and Pete listener line. Lamont. You're in the hive with the bees. It's up Lamont. Hey, man. Hey, hey, hey, guys. How's it going? And did yesterday's events made me think about a journey and I'm going to get to that, but I'm like, it's a bigger question at play here. I hate the slide. I hate when my own quarterback's do it. I think the slide should be eliminated period. To me, that was football right there. That was football right there, you know, you know, get a fine, you know, get a fine. I'll take you next, but that was something these guys remember, when coach McCoy got hit by a Pittsburgh filler, I want to know what happened at that because that was also violent. And I'll say this to you guys if you guys forgot about it, but I mean, not been smoothed out. But what made me think about Jeremy and almost a year later, Jeremy had made the comment about, what's his name, the Mark Jackson, right? Yeah, that he wanted a, well, we don't got to be hash with Jeremy said, but he said it and a lot of people was agreeing about it. Now, I'll take yesterday's events, it mean yesterday's events, if it's not been meditated or anything like that, that you're not sitting out of a bounty to be that what Jeremy said about the more Jackson actually makes sense. But I just had thought about Jeremy, I was like, me and Jeremy, because I feel no pain. I feel no sympathy. I feel no sympathy for launch yesterday. That's the ball. That's the ball play. I'm not going to say a football play. It's a violent game. It's a violent game. Yeah. Very disappointed in the month. No, the month's wise, very disappointed in you, Lamont. You've let me down. You've changed. Yes. You've changed your perspective and now you're siding with someone that wants to quarterback her. No, no, no, no. I mean, I'm not siding with John. I'm saying, Johnny, when the just mistake was, I do to be hurt. You're breaking up. You're breaking up. You're breaking up. I think we get the we understand where you're coming from, Lamont. And I appreciate you admitting a year later that I was right. That was right. That's true. I appreciate that for Jeremy. I appreciate that Lamont. Look, I like my defensive players to be violent. And here's the other part of that. Like, I think the Lamont Lamont was getting to if it didn't break up. It is a bigger conversation. Was the Z's penalty late? Should have been penalized. Yeah, I'm not. I'm not arguing that. Like, people are taking my words on Twitter, like, oh, you're defending a Z's out of Shire. No, I'm saying it's really hard for a defensive player in that moment to always do the right thing. Like, you have these unathletic fat people on Twitter. They're like, oh, he should have launched himself over Trevor Lawrence to miss him. Do you know how tough that is? You got a linebacker at 20 miles per hour, quarterback at 20 miles per hour, the quarterback sliding. And you want him to leap the guy and miss him completely. Never saying this like it's easy to do like it's a video game, like it's jumping a checker piece over another checker piece. No, you got a moving object and a moving object that are flying at each other and you want one guy to just barely clear the other one when he's flying through the air. Let's not act like that's easy to do. And all these people on Twitter, oh, we should have done this. We should have done that. It's very difficult for the defender to all of a sudden make a change of motion. Could he have like done it softer? I'm not arguing that he maybe couldn't have done it softer. All of these things. But the way that I saw it, I see Trevor Lawrence running looking for the first down. He's running. He's a runner. He's a ball carrier in that moment. He starts to chop his steps down way before he slides. He had an opportunity to slide before he slid. I'm not putting any blame on Lawrence, but he could have slid earlier. He also could have slid head first. Could have because he was going for a first down could have dove. You have a Z's all his momentum going at Lawrence. You have Lawrence all his momentum going in a season as he's did not lead with the crowd of the helmet. Didn't leave with the crown. That's way more dangerous than the forearm. The crown of the helmet way more dangerous than a forearm. He doesn't do that. He doesn't launch by definition of the NFL. I saw a bunch of boy launch. No, he didn't. Go look up the roll. He did not launch. A launch is an upward action where you leave both feet. He does not go upward. He only leaves one foot. So he didn't launch. He didn't create any helmet to helmet contact. So again, this could have been a lot worse. Could have been softer. Sure. I'm not pushing back on that, but it could have been a lot worse. I get the referees. I get the NFL airing on the side of caution with CTE and concussions and lawsuits and what he protects the player. I get all of that. But the narrative that Aziz al-Shire is the dirtiest player in the NFL for what he did yesterday is sensationalism at its finest. Here was Rob Gronkowski yesterday during the half listen to this non sense that Rob Gronkowski spewing it half time. Yeah. Well, Trevor Lawrence is kind of like a normal routine play. He was rolling out to his blind side. No one was open. He decided to tuck the ball and go for it running. He's rolling here. And it's clear and obvious that Trevor Lawrence is going to slide. But Aziz al-Shire, he did something that he shouldn't have done. He's definitely going to have second thoughts about this, you know, sitting in the locker room because he got ejected from the game. He kind of uses that elbow brace that he has and he slingshots himself right in the Trevor Lawrence's head and knocks him out, makes him go stiff, which you never want to see. But it's a good thing that you saw Trevor Lawrence getting carried off. He was sitting up and he looked like he was with itself. What does slingshot mean? Trevor Lawrence. It's not illegal to use the elbow. Slingshot. I don't know what slingshot means. And then again, it's not contact with the helmet, like maybe he meant that Lawrence's head slingshotted back. That probably makes the most sense. I mean, that would be more of a whip back. It's ironic. They did the promos with Gronk using big words yesterday because he can't even get small way. We could say Aziz al-Shire correctly. Right. That is a difficult one. It is. So went back and looked at dirtiest players in NFL history today because we're going to talk about this later. You know who was on one of them? Rob Gronkowski. Rob Gronk. There was a dude laying down after an interception and Rob Gronkowski just ear holes them. Just right from a top of them. And then here you go. This is the worst thing in football. I am Gronk's Gronk's smash Gronk's spike. I did this. Gronk did this. And he's over here reprimanding Aziz al-Shire and he's not even getting the facts right. Yeah, that Gronk's got a lot to learn before. He's living on a name right now and it's not what he brings to the telecast. But to get back to what you were saying, the big thing to me is you're right. He's not leading with the crown of the helmet. He's not launching. But he's still with the forearm, gives the indication that he's trying to be more violent than he is tackling. I don't like it. I don't like it. And I'm not trying to say there's a softer way to tackle. There's just a better way to tackle where if he doesn't lead with the form, he just tries to bear hug him on the way down. I think that's a different story as well. And I think that this is where this is one of those situations. Still penalized. Right. It probably will always still be penalized. And the way the league treats all of these injuries now, that's not going away. They're going to protect. Just like they've protected the wide receivers, the hyper-protected quarterback, where they have to change the rule is because we've seen my homes do this. We saw prior to that, Kenny Pickett did this. When you start talking about the fact that when the quarterback leaves the pocket, I understand you can't hit him low. There's all these different protections in place because the quarterbacks in the passing area of the pocket, when he leaves the pocket and it becomes a runner, they have to change the rule. Because, you know, the quarterbacks are worried about, well, when I start a slide, it's where my first action of the slide starts toward the ball is marked. I need those extra yards. Do those extra things. Well, the quarterback also has to understand I'm putting myself in a vulnerable position when I decide to run and leave the pocket. When I leave the pocket, things change. And that's where the rules have to change because you can't be deeked and you fool me once as a defender, and the next time they're going to rip someone's head off and live with the consequences. That's the bigger, bigger picture conversation. Because that's what's going on. Can he pick it? Did it? Can he pick it? Did a fake slide? Like can he pick it? Did a fake slide? And you're telling these defenders not to touch a quarterback once they go into the slide. And now I know I understand that it's penalized and you're supposed to stop it whenever they fake slide it. At the same time, what if he just ever slides and the other big picture conversation when it comes to this? Because yes, quarterbacks are the Trevor Lawrence was fighting for extra yards here. Trevor Lawrence chopped his feet down twice before he started the slide. They had another camera from the in zone camera looking into Trevor Lawrence's eyes. And you could see Trevor Lawrence lock his eyes on as he's out shire. He sees them takes two more steps before he slides. He knows what that first down marker is to absolutely, absolutely. So like there is a bigger conversation in terms of the quarterback trying to get away with the rules, bending the rules, fighting for extra yardage that they probably need to change on an NFL level. The other perspective is the Houston Texans want to be a tough physical team, right? Like you to make all teams do. All coaches want their teams to be physical, tough, the toughest team on the field. Especially a defensive minded head coach. So whenever you're a defensive minded head coach, how would you, how do you want your players playing? Do you want them playing on the attack on their toes, flying all over the field, swarming? Or do you want them to be flat footed on their hills and playing with a tentative nature? You want the former. Yes, you want them to always be smart. But whenever you're saying that I want you to be tenacious, swarm, physical fly over the field, as opposed to being soft on your hills, flat footed, you're going to have a few times a year where there are plays like this that go against you, where you're aggression as a defense because your mentality is to swarm, where you're going to swarm a little bit too much. But as a defensive minded head coach, you rather air on that side than air on the side of being tentative and, you know, hesitating to make hits. See, but I think that there's a fine line there because I agree with you that you want to be aggressive. You want to be the, the, the one that is constantly, you know, trying to be, you know, full force going a hundred miles an hour and doing what if you need to do, but you also, whether you say it's being smart, but you also have to understand the situation to make the appropriate play. When you know it's a quarterback, when you know, you know, what's, what the situation could entail, the fact you have to be smart. This is a player that had this happen earlier in the season too. So this is something where whether it's, you know, lesson learned from the last time, there's a way to go about this to where you don't do that. You pick your spots. Yes, you want them to be full blown aggressive on every play, but there's a difference between being flat footed and doing what he did yesterday. But it's a very fine line and with them being this athletic, how quick the speed of the game is, how like it's hard. That's why the rules have to change. Yeah, I would agree with that. I have no argument with that, but I rather be on the side of being overly aggressive than being overly conservative. Like the last thing I want from my football team, and especially if I'm a defensive minded head coach is to be the team that's on my hills, to be the team that is flat footed. I want my team going forward. I want that. I want a physical defense. Sorry. I do want a physical defense. And am I going to pick up one on sportsman like penalty a year because I'm a little bit over aggressive and physical? Yeah, I probably am, but I'm going to take that trade off. It's just, I believe in being violent in football. It's a violent sport. It's a physical sport. I believe in it. 713780 ESPN. We'll carry this conversation over the other side. Collars on the line, textures in the hive as well, 713780 ESPN. It is the bees on ESPN 97 5 and ESPN 92 5. That's what we go to the break. We're from a good friend, Doc Linville. 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