PFT Live with Mike Florio

Broncos defense seals win over Jameis Winston and the Browns (Hour 1)

Hour 1: Mike Florio (@ProFootballTalk) and Devin McCourty (@devinmccourty) discuss the Broncos 41-32 win over the Browns. Jameis Winston gives and takes, Jerry Jeudy has a historic game, Broncos put themselves in position to take a playoff spot.

Duration:: 57m
Broadcast on:: 03 Dec 2024
Audio Format:: other

0:00 Intro

5:27 Broncos def. Browns 41-32

8:06 Jerry Jeudy’s monster day

15:53 Jameis Winston 4 TD & 3 INT

43:38 Broncos Playoff Picture

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Surprisingly exciting game, surprisingly high-scoring game back and forth they went, strategic decisions having to be made by the Broncos late in the game, kick the field goal and then assume your defense can hold and they finally got it right mainly because they got Levi Wallace off the field. Good morning, Devin McCordy. Good morning, man, in what a game, I don't think anybody was expecting that kind of game Monday night, but the back and forth, the quarterback play, a very, very exciting game down to the wire and a fun game to watch. And it was, by the way, to Kwang McMillan with the dagger there for the Denver Broncos, but it was nice to be able to see Bonix in a standalone setting because that's what happened last year with CJ Stroud. We didn't see him until week 18 in a spot where we could just watch him and no one else, not other games happening at the same time, you get that spotlight. And I remember when I realized a few weeks ago that it was going to be Browns Broncos to cap Thanksgiving weekend and I thought, okay, they do something about that, but I'm glad they didn't. It's an exciting game and the Browns bring excitement, even though the wins aren't there, there are deeper issues they're going to have to deal with after the season, deeper issues they've been dealing with this season, but they, they are not a team that is giving up, they are not a team that is folding the tents, they're bringing it every week under James Winston. Before we start, though, Devin, this is a Tuesday's with McCordy edition of PFT Live on Sirius XM85, Peacocks, Guy Sports NFL, podcast review, podcast. I have two questions. One, and then a related question, because I thought of this this morning, because we've been doing this long enough now, we can, we can waste a little time at the beginning. And this may be a reflection of my stubbornness, but here's my question for you, if while you are shaving, you recognize in the first couple of swoops of the razor that it's time for a new razor, it's time for a new blade on the end of the razor. Do you immediately change the razor? Simple process, pop a button, stick it into the, you got a new one. Or do you say I'm getting one last shave out of this razor that needs to be changed? What do you do in that setting? I got bad news for you. I don't, I don't shave. I use clipper. So that's, that's not really a problem for me. But I will say electronic toothbrush, and you get the alert that it's time to change your toothbrush head. You don't pop it off immediately. You finish what you're doing. You might even get another two uses out of it before you say, you know what? I need to either order another one or reach in this drawer and grab another toothbrush head. I don't do it immediately because I think I know best, like I know you're alerting me, but I know better than you, so you got to get a few more uses before you move on. First of all, if you have a toothbrush that automatically alerts you when it's time to change the head, that's the definition of, as Chris Simms would say, can't hide money. But secondly, the toothbrush isn't going to cut your teeth. That's the challenge when it comes to being stubborn about your razor blade. Because I got myself right on the chin today and I can't believe it's not bleeding all over the place because I decided I'm getting one last shave out of this razor that feels like I'm dragging a tiny little bed of nails across my face. So I learned my lesson. And that's the related question. This is just one of the things that I think about from time to time. If you were due to have surgery and you see that the surgeon comes into the room and he's cut himself shaving that morning, do you cancel the surgery? I would cancel the surgery. It might be a little too late in the process is you cancel it. Most people don't you cancel that back you up maybe two or three much from that surgery. So if you cancel, you better know that you don't need that surgery right away. Yeah. But I mean, I don't know if I can go to the bullpen, but I don't want I don't want surgeon who cuts his face shaving to be the person who's picking up the scalpel that same day. Maybe maybe it's just a bad day either. Maybe he's gotten it all out of him. I don't know. I just thought of that because it is amazing how you like 50 years of it's simple. But then every once in a while, you just kind of rip your face. Of course, you rip your face because you've got bad. I guess I would want to ask him, is this a situation where you just were stubborn and you didn't change your blade and is your scalpel sharp is your scalpel at the appropriate level of cutting ability. All right. Let's get to it. There's so many different things that we can talk about coming out of this game, but it really was a wild night, 952 combined yards, 73 total points and we thought that we're going to be more the Browns were on the doorstep before the third interception thrown by James Winston the night for total lead changes. It's not expected in today's NFL that the scoring was so sluggish to start the season. This really was a throwback to like the 80s and 90s like this was like arena league almost. But I like these games. I like it when both teams are in the thirties and I can deal with one of them being just over 40. It gets a little crazy when it's 48 45. I like it. I like it when there's enough scoring because it's a touchdown or two per quarter. It's not crazy. It's not like a basketball game. I love games like the one we saw last night, even though it was a little bit of a long game for a Monday night. I liked it and it's interesting too, because if you look at both these defenses, they play a lot of man to man coverage. So you get these offensive coordinators. They both enter the game knowing what exactly they're going to see really play after playing yet a mix in some zones here and there. But for the most part, they get up there and they play you man to man and a credit to both coordinators because they had different what we call man to man beaters ready to go. Denver showed that early in the game. Even when Sutton dropped the pass, they came right back to him on a similar route, Aikman and Buck talked about it during the broadcast and Sutton catches the next one early in the game. And you're like, okay, this makes sense. Like you start watching and the key to these games is when this high score like this, and I think the first thing you think of is like, they're not playing defense, but the truth of the matter, they were playing defense. You had turnovers in this game. You had quarterbacks being aggressive throwing the ball down the field. So they made a lot of plays, but on the other side, some of these defenders made plays yet to pick six is for Denver. You had different interceptions, Newsom and Ward and Ward for Cleveland. So you saw up and down game, you saw a pass rate, you saw everything in this game. And I think I agree with you from that standpoint of if you like football, you like everything football has to kind of offer. You got all of that and one game Monday night watching it because you got to see a little bit of everything. You got to see a veteran quarterback, a rookie quarterback, go ahead to head and they really went back and forth making plays and which made it interesting throughout the whole game. That exchange in the first half Denver facing third and 11 from their own seven 93 yard catch and run from bow nicks to Marvin Mims. And then right back at you, Jerry Judy with a 70 yard catch and run unbelievable. And Judy was insane. And I was impressed by the quality of the research that ESPN had ready to go 235 receiving yards for Jerry Judy, the most by a player against his former team ever. I'm sure he would have preferred to win the game, but he was having a good time. He was not worried about anybody throwing anything at him, not that I condone it. But sometimes you'll see guys a little hesitant to really give it to the crowd. He was given to him with a smile on his face, but he was given it to him all night. He wanted to go back there and he said last week, I want to go back and kick their ass. It's okay, Joe. You can say it. Joe said bleep. You can say ass on ESPN. It's late. The kids are in bed. They hear it all the time. And if they haven't, they got to learn some time. So yeah, he was ready to go and he delivered and it's a shame they didn't win the game just for him because that that's the big negative on what was an incredible return to Denver by a guy who never really quite fit there and clearly after the first season, Sean Payton, they decided they didn't want Jerry Judy anymore and it was fun watching because about two weeks ago, me and coach Garrett, we're in the screening room and we're talking about Jerry Judy and I'm just like, man, I thought Jerry Judy when he came out, I thought this guy was going to be a prolific receivers route running his quickness, all these different things. And Jason looked at me and he was like, I'm happy you said that because I thought the same thing and then my brother posted last night of why we thought that we played Denver in 2020 and he had my brother spinning like a top with his route running so to see you go out there and perform like that. It just goes to show when guys get in situations where they feel comfortable, they're able to produce and this all happened for Jerry Judy. Soon as kind of James Winston came in the lineup and is as the ability to throw the ball all around. Look at that. We got it ready to go. Jason McCordy getting spun up like a top. What is like? Whoa. That's an impressive route even though he doesn't get the ball there, but I think your credit to him and I think the funny thing of when you play your former team and everyone knows how good the Denver Broncos defense has been this year, Sir Tan has been elite playing a quarterback position. Jerry Judy's like, I did this every day in practice. I went against these guys. There's no like mystique about him. He went out there. He had two stop routes on Sir Tan when everyone's probably thinking like, Hey, they're going to have to leave out while I was don't even throw us a tent. He goes and catches two passes over there on him. So I just thought Jerry Judy looked like he was so comfortable. He gave James Winston. I think even this kind of extra confidence of, Hey, throw me the ball against these guys. They can't cover me. I know I'm going to get open and we saw them do that all night long. Here's Judy from after the game on the reception that he received on his first visit back to Denver. I heard it. I mean, there's a lot of rules on what that means, a lot of catches too, you know, you know, how emotional, but you know, you know, you all, like I said before, you all want to beat the team that you used to play for, you know, but, you know, came up short. And I said, you got to find a way to find a way to win it. It seemed to kind of like I loved it. I loved it. You know, the only boy when they know the son and grand, you know, that's right, the only boo you when they know there's something great in you. And he was having a great night. One of the reasons why I think he's been kind of perceived as not living up to the pre-draft hype, he was taken by the Broncos while CD Lam was still on the board while Justin Jefferson was still on the board and while Brandon Ayuk was still on the board. So that, I think, fueled the idea that he really wasn't living up to what we expected because those three guys really delivered, especially Jefferson. But they all could have been had, any of them could have been had by the Broncos. It went with Judy. And again, it didn't work out with Sean Payton. Sean Payton moved on from Russell Wilson too. Sean Payton moves on from guys that just aren't in his estimation, part of the long-term solution. It worked out well for both sides. It definitely worked out last night. And I don't want to take it any way from Judy, but anybody who was covered by Levi Wallace until they got him out of the game was wide open. And I think that's something Denver is going to have to look at because depending on how long Riley Moss is going to be out of the lineup, you play a certain style of defense. And I fully understand that when I was in New England, we had a man-to-man aggressive defense and that defense. We have four corners towards the end and all throughout my career. We had different guys, whether Stefan Gilmore, Malcolm Butler, Derelle Rivas, O'Keeve, we had all these different guys in there. But the truth of the matter is some of the biggest games we played, if one of those guys went down, it changes the defense. You don't always have four or five corners on your depth chart that you feel confident in saying, hey, we're going to play 80% man-to-man and we're going to go out there and get stopped. So when it happens within a game, it's really hard to adjust and get to something else. I think for Denver, now they're going to go and figure some things out during their buy week. They're going to need to see, hey, what is the timetable on Riley Moss? Can we continue to play this style because he's coming back after the buy or maybe in a week after the buy? Or do we need to kind of maybe send help to the other side? Do we need to maybe double more over there? Do we need to play more zone? They're going to have to really kind of get that down because, again, this Cleveland team to have some good receivers, James Winston will throw the ball all around the field. But you can't walk away saying like, hey, we just played against the best receiving court that we're going to see all year. And if they want to be successful going down the stretch and into the playoffs, when you don't have guys out there, you can't always just say, hey, we're going to do what we do. You've got to adjust to what you have. And I think Vance Joseph will do that. But watching last night, what they went out there in that game plan, they're not going to survive playing like that and give it up that many yards passing the ball. They went deep on the depth chart for Chris Abrams drain once they decided they'd seen enough of Levi Wallace last night. It really wasn't until late third, early fourth quarter that that finally happened. And it's funny, given the fact that you played for Bill Belichick, when you said they need help from the other side, I'm thinking, what receiver are they going to have played defensive back? Because we know Belichick when in need would flip a guy over and let him play in the slot or wherever on the defensive side of the ball. But it does get to the point where you got to think of anything you can to fill that void because we're going to talk about Jamis. I got a lot to say about Jamis and say what you will about Jamis and plenty of people say plenty of things about him. He was spot in the guy that was on Levi Wallace. He knew where to throw the ball. He knew which guy to pick on. And then when they replaced him with Abrams drain, he knew to pick on him. And that's always the thing because it's not like you can just say, hey, we're going to flip flop every player. We're going to do like the defense can adjust too. But credit to Jamis Winston of saying like, hey, we don't have to get Jerry Judy over there all the time. Hey, guys, run the route the right way. I'm going to find you. And again, I agree with you 100%. I think Jamis Winston is a guy that has always talked about it and different things. Even I'm sure we're going to watch this sound by and after the game. They're saving for retirement. And then there's living in it. At Fidelity, we can help you make that transition and plan for whatever comes next. With a free personalized income plan, you can view and manage your cash flow across accounts. Plus, you'll get investing insights to help you make your savings last. Ready to take on retirement? 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I listen to that, but I always look around the circle and you look at guys like Rodney McCloud, who was front and center, you look at Miles Garrett, and when you see their faces locked in on what he is saying, then you can see the intensity grow and they start clapping as he's going. That lets me know that throughout the week, throughout the season so far, this guy's been front and center. He's been telling them things. He's been authentic with him. He's been the guy that is feeling the pulse of the team when he's in that circle because that's what it comes down to. When you're in the middle of, when you're right before the game, in the middle of that circle and every guy on your team's looking at you, it's not to make up some random thing that you read maybe. It's something that you've come up with that relates to the team in this circumstance or this week, and that to me is what James has hit right on the head. He understands the heartbeat of the team and it's been a lot of fun to watch him kind of bring this team together because I think we all keep saying the same thing when we watch the Browns. Damn, what if they would have just put James West in earlier in the season? What would be the difference for this team? Because this guy's really got them going and they haven't won every game, but they've been in all of these games, they've been competitive and it just crushes you to think that this Browns defense and this team had a shot this year, but it all crumbled because they had the wrong guy playing quarterback. He has come such a long way from that bizarre E to W thing where the guys around him when he was playing for the box, it was kind of like, yeah, the reaction was not the same as it is in Cleveland. They were like, is this guy okay? But he really does show up, he's himself, it's infectious. There was a clip that the Browns posted last night where he just had a small circle of guys, 45 minutes or so before kickoff, and he was saying tah-tah-tah-tah-tah-tah-tah. And they thought that was funny, but it gets you in the right frame of mind. You're going to play the game anyway, but if you can get that extra little boost in a fun and real, authentic, genuine way, then it helps. 497 passing yards last night, I thought he was going to break 500, it was right down to that final interception where he potentially could have made it happen. And after he threw that touchdown pass to David and Joe Goode to tie the game at 7 with the extra point, I've posted on Twitter that the Browns are insane if they don't keep him next year and play him instead of John Watson. And there are a lot of haters on Davis Winston, and he's got more people that there's always been like, he's always been like this cult figure and I think it comes from the mindset of he's the joke, he's not in on the joke, like there's been people who have leaned into James because they think he's funny and they're kind of making fun of him a little bit. I think that's subsided, people appreciate him now. The Browns have a mess next year with 46 million still fully guaranteed. And due to John Watson, 46 million in 2026 fully guaranteed and doing owing to John Watson, it's not like they're going to be able to go out and sign whatever free agent might be available and pay them whatever the market would bear for that skill level and experience level. James is there and he wants to stay. He has said it. He wants to stay. This is Joe Flacco all over again, and Joe Flacco's final game as a starter was a disaster for the Browns. And through multiple interceptions, they lost to the Texans in blowout fashion. But the theory that Sims and I have had all year long, Devin, is they didn't bring him back because they knew they couldn't bring him back because if you bring him back week one, they're going to be chanting, "We want Flacco." The fans loved Flacco and the fans are going to love James. And I think you can get James Winston at a fairly affordable price. And the three interceptions last night actually will help you. You're not going to have a land rush for James Winston. There's not going to be a team out there that needs a quarterback that has in big bold letters at the top of their list. We need James Winston. Cleveland needs James Winston and they need to turn the page from the Sean Watson to James Winston. And they can afford to pay Watson $46 million to not play, get Winston for a reasonable price and make him the guy. And you're going to have moments like that. You're going to have pick sixes, but you're going to have excitement and you're going to have fun. And you're going to be relevant. And most teams end up in prime time because they win. The Browns will be a draw next year because they have James. And if you're not going to win the Super Bowl anyway, only one out of 32 is going to. You might as well be fun. The Browns are fun. You want to build your fan base nationally? Be fun. The next best thing to be good is be fun. And I think from a football standpoint, Cleveland, you walk away and say, "Man, it got through two, two, pick sixes, another, a third interception." But you also, you're looking like, "We had to go throw the ball 58 times." Like, is that really the recipe to be successful? So I agree with you. You use that in your contract negotiation, but inside, you got to be talking about we got to set them up for success too. So I think about the guys in the locker room. You walk away from last season with Joe Flacco, and it was almost kind of this thing that just happened. Like, Joe Flacco has this moment in time, and I'm not sure the vibe and the locker room with him once you play that last game. But I think in the back of your mind, you're like, "Man, it sure would be a nice insurance policy to have Joe Flacco in there if I'm on that team. I'm thinking if something goes wrong with the Sean Watson, why wouldn't we have Flacco right here ready to go? If you come back this season, if you don't bring back Jamis once then, as a guy in the locker room, I'm not even considering you bringing back to Sean Watson to be our starter because we couldn't get anything going at all as an offense, as a team. And then we get Jamis Winston in here. And again, the wins aren't picking up heavily. You're playing in a tougher division. You have other teams in division that are playing at a high level, and you're not winning every game. But like you said, we're competitive. We have a shot to win these games. How could we dare come back and not set ourselves up for that? And I just think other free agents on that team, you got to be looking at that. If you're a free agent on another team, even thinking about coming to Cleveland, those are the things you have to think about. If I'm going to veteran that signed a contract and maybe I have two years left, if we don't do those things, then I come back to a team knowing we don't care about winning. This is just a financial thing, and you kind of see that happening with the Giants right now with guys speaking out about how a locker room should work, who should be playing all of these different things. So I think it's a no brainer for Cleveland to go out there and make sure they keep Jamis Winston. Even if you get a young quarterback, Jamis Winston in the locker room is better for your organization and your culture going forward. So it seems like a no brainer, but football doesn't always work that way. We're doing some of the things that we feel that are obvious on the outside looking in. It's a no brainer. The problem is roughly 20% of the league has no brains. That's what that's what happens. Bad teams stay bad and they make bad decisions and they're stubborn. They blew it with the Sean Watson and so far there has been no willingness on the part of the organization starting from the top with ownership and they can twist themselves and whatever not they want to about because Andrew Barry, the Jam has asked about this a few weeks ago about the trade and it was it your decision to come down from on high? It was our decision. Yeah, that means it's the boss's decision, it's ownership that wanted to do this. They got the tap on the shoulder first for the four teams that were pursuing to Sean Watson and it was Cleveland, you're out. It's either going to be Atlanta, New Orleans or Carolina, Cleveland, you're out and Cleveland's like, well, how do we make him an offer where he can't refuse? That's an offer in five years, 230 million, every single penny guaranteed and that changed his mind and they keep doubling down and tripling down. They won't admit that it was a mistake and they won't just say, hey, we have to pay him, we don't have to play him. They feel like they have to play him because they're paying him and that's the mistake and hopefully this wakes them up. One in six with the Sean Watson's record as a starter this year, James is two and three. Two and three doesn't look great. When you compare it to one in six, it does. And James didn't have the benefit of being the guy wired a wire. That never just mentioned he got thrown into this. If you give him, if you give him a full year where he's the guy, I made this argument five years ago with Gardner Minshoo because he got thrown into it when Nick Foles got injured, broke and collarbone week one against the Chiefs and then Foles came back and then Minshoo came back and it's like, you know, they've done enough where this guy at least deserves one year. Just like Antonio Pierce, give him his year, start to finish and see what he does. And if it works great, if it doesn't, well, then then like Gardner Minshoo, it didn't work. Antonio Pierce is not working, but we see enough from James Winston when he's shoved from the sideline into the fray without the benefit of everything that goes along with being the full year, not season, but full year starting quarterback. Let's give him a year and let's see what he can do. And again, you're probably not going to win the Super Bowl anyway, especially with 46 million being paid to Jean Watson next year. You'll be fun. You'll be rolling. I guarantee you, if James Winston is on that roster, when it's time for the NFL to put out their schedule, you will get more Browns games in prime time than you would have gotten because too straight now, too straight, James has helped deliver exciting memorable games for the NFL. And it doesn't matter if the Browns are one in one. What matters is both of those games were fun to watch, start to finish. And what have we ever talked about a starting quarterback? And for three years in a row, we've said the backup is outplayed the starting quarterback, starting with Jacobi Brissette when he came there and then to show Watson came in and it was kind of like, hey, he sat out for a long time, the year in Houston to show Watson didn't play then 11 game suspension. It was kind of like, all right, well, we expect that. That's why Jacobi Brissette looks better than the next year happens. Joe Flacko gets in there. Now, James Winston gets in there at some point, you got to say, we can't put this guy back on the field. We've had three different guys come in here and play better than him in situations where they weren't supposed to be the guy coming in. They were coming in just for Jacobi Brissette, you were coming in just to hold a spot for the Sean Watson. So the offense still is going to be built around the Sean Watson of what he can do. We just need you to hold it down to four until he comes back. So to me, this situation, it's simply kind of ridiculous of, hey, we've done something and you keep saying it, we made an investment, it didn't work out, but we can't just let the investment go. We have to continue to play, like you don't. It's okay. And this league, you always have, you make mistakes, draft free agency, those things happen. But the worst part about that is when you continue to double down and triple down on a decision and say, hey, we're okay with this because we believe in it. No, there's a few people who believe in it, mainly one person, the owner who believes in this, where everybody else is ready to move on. And I get it. It's the owner's money. So that's the one person that needs to not believe in it to get it done. But I just think it's ridiculous to have guys suit up and play a game and say, hey, we're not going to give you the pieces that we have in the locker room to go win, but we still want you to go be competitive and do your job. And that's ridiculous. And there are shades of Daniel Jones that trickle into this because you're going to have your starter who's making 40 plus million a year and Jones was at 40 million a year and you make a business decision. And this isn't even a business decision. It's a football decision. The business stuff is secondary. The Giants made a business decision. The Browns would be making a basic, simple football decision that should apply at every level of the sport, the best guys play. And they've been going against that for some stupid appearances. We don't want to admit we were wrong. We're being stubborn. I bet Jimmy Haslam doesn't change the blade on his razor when, when it he can tell that it's time for a new one, right? They're just stubborn and, and they're stubborn to the point where, and I'm paraphrasing, when Andrew Berry met with reporters and the issue came up about what to do with Sean Watson, he kind of basically said when he was asked about fan preference, like, but I'll do respect. We love our fans, but we don't listen to them or something like that. At some point, you have to because at some point, you can only push them so far. And a lot of teams take their fans for granted. They assume that people are going to show up no matter how bad the team is, because it's so ingrained in who they are. It's so ingrained in what they do. It's family tradition. We go to the games. It's a full day experience. The team becomes part of your family, and even when your family is messy and dysfunctional, you still love your family, except in some cases, but you still stick with it, right? And they take that and they use it against the fans. They figure they'll tolerate anything. They'll deal with any kind of mistreatment because they feel that bond to the team. And I feel bad because it's not like the fans are ever going to say, "We will boycott you. We won't come to you." They won't deprive themselves of something they enjoy, even if it drives them crazy. They'd rather be driven crazy by their football team than shun their football team. In some organizations, the bad ones use that against the fans. And I think at some point you need to listen to your fans. That doesn't mean you let them make the big decisions, but when the decision is so obvious, we don't listen to outside voices. Well, maybe you should because your inside voices suck. At some point, you have to acknowledge reality. And I really do believe it emanates from ownership. They got all these fancy titles, chief strategy officer, and they have a GM who's very good, very accomplished, and Kevin Stofansky, two-time coach of the year, but it's dysfunctional at the top. And if they want to be upset with me for speaking what I believe to be the truth, I don't care. In 12 years of ownership, the common thread for the Browns is Jimmy Haslam is a dysfunctional owner. And it's amazing because Jimmy Haslam, David Tepper, now we'll see what happens with Josh Harrison, DC. These are all guys who owned a piece of the Steelers. And you would think, Devin, that you would just accidentally pick up something from Art Rooney about how to properly run a football team. I wonder if he has like seminars for his minority owners and he tells them the wrong stuff, you know, because he sees these guys are going to buy a team one of these days. So let's load them up with a bunch of bullshit so they don't know how to run a team. And it's amazing, it's amazing how hard these guys make it for themselves and stubbornness and ego and having a bunch of yes men around you, telling you what you want to hear instead of what you need to hear, Jimmy Haslam needs to hear it, dude, don't put to Sean Watson on the field next year, find a way to keep James Winston and he's your guy. But if the Browns believe otherwise, it's because he believes otherwise. There's no doubt about him. I think from a player standpoint, you always look and you kind of wonder, unless you do your research and figure out, all right, like you just said, these guys have worked for the Steelers and been around Art Rooney, you always assume like when this owner comes in, hey, it could be a good dude, you'd be a great dude. But you're like, there's no football, doesn't know what he's doing in this situation. And it's just like, well, how do we figure out to know what we're doing? Like, do we bring in people and just say, hey, this is your role, GM, this, that head coach, but ultimately I know football, I know ownership, so I'm going to make the calls or do we step back and say, hey, we brought in the right people, we're going to let them go do the football stuff because you just don't know, usually as a player, you get this owner, you come in and you're just like, oh, seems like a good guy, I've had a couple conversations with them, he's around all the time, he's helping out when he's around, he's talking to guys, he's getting to know him and it builds your network and all that stuff. But the end of the day as a player, you don't know what happens behind the scenes, you don't know who makes these calls, you don't know who's deciding. We always thought of, once we get in this locker room and these are the guys on the team, it's always a thought that everybody else, the coaching staff, maybe the general manager and some of the scouting department will get in and help make the right decisions on who plays or who we need to bring in. And when you watch some of these teams year after year after year, just make the wrong decisions, you're just like, well, they fired that GM, they fired that head coach, they fired this person, they fired that person is like, well, how do they keep making the same mistake? And I think it goes back to what you said, the person at the top doesn't change. And if that person doesn't change, then they also may have to create some type of process that brings a different result. If you can't keep doing the same thing and think, hey, eventually it's going to work out because that's just the odds, not in the NFL. If you want to be a bad team and you're going to stick doing the same thing, you're just going to keep being bad. Like, that's how the NFL works. That's why we've seen somebody's franchise just be bad for such a long time because it doesn't just happen because you're a good person or because time eventually happens and years start winning. No, you have to make winning decisions that ultimately will lead to wins on the field. Everything you said is 100% accurate. The problem is there's no one in the building who was willing to stake their job on saying what needs to be said to the owner. They tiptoe around because you've got centralized power, complete and total autonomy and authority with one person. There's no committee that needs to meet. There's no board that needs to be consulted. You can roll out of bed any day you want and say, we're making a change. We're making a change. We're making a change. So, if you're going to stick your neck out, you may send the message, but somebody else is going to have your job when that message is finally implemented. And this is what I love from a fascination standpoint, from an entertainment standpoint, from things I can sink my teeth into, these multi-billion dollar operations, Devin. You know, you got to pass two tests to be able to drive a car. You pass zero tests to own a football team. All you got to do is show up with the biggest bag of money. That's it. And it doesn't matter how you made your money, or you inherit the team. You're in the right place. You're the spouse. You're the kid. You're the nephew. You're whoever. There's no aptitude test for owning an NFL team. And for the ones who have made their money, who have been wildly successful elsewhere, they think I did it here, I can do it here. It's transferable when it's not. And I thought of this too, as you were saying it. Some of this might be John Madden's fault. And I'll explain in a second, because he never meant to do this. But these owners now are of the age where they had the full John Madden broadcasting experience. And John Madden's gift was he made it seem easy. He made it seem relatable. He made it seem like something anyone could understand. So you got these owners who were fooled by John Madden into thinking it's a lot easier than it is. And they're finding out that it's not. And you put all those things in the same pot, and you get this, you know, there's a handful of teams every given year, you know, even if they get lucky and the planets line up from a roster standpoint, they're still going to find a way to screw it all up. Yep, there's no doubt about it. And again, shout out to Matt, because then he created a video game where you actually could go be the general manager, create your own team and do all those things. So not only were owners now realizing there's so many fans who think that they could go and start to own their own team and win a lot of games. So again, it's the greatness of John Madden and what he was able to create. But obviously once you get to real life, there's some other things that need to go your way before those wins actually start to pile on and you become a good franchise. Hey, but clock management, game situations, you know, I, I play Matt, I play Matt in every day when I ride my bike because that's the only way I can get through that ideally an hour on my bike is to have a distraction like that. And you see all different permutations, iteration situations, when to call timeout, when to spike, when to get out of bounds. And so when we see some of the examples we saw last week, like with the Bears and the Raiders on Thursday and Friday, yeah, there's millions of people who play Madden who look at that and say, what the hell is wrong with you? So that part of it has actually made it easier for us to be able to scrutinize when we see bad coaching and bad execution on the field. All right. We did see bad execution from James, so I'm not going to completely sugarcoat it. He had three interceptions. Here is from after the game, Devin, on, if you apologize to his teammates for those turnovers. Yeah, I did. It was my fault, like there's, there's evidence, two touchdowns, two touchdowns by the defense, pick sixes. Yeah. I've been here before. I got to play better. I am. In times like this, you know, that's, it's, it's the opportunity to continue to glorify the Lord even through the toughest circumstances. I know I'm better than this. I know I'm like, I'm just praying for the Lord to deliver me from pick sixes. Like that's just, that's not me. Like a phenomenal game, offense, do some great things, but I messed it up. I like it that he owns it and I'm sure the locker room appreciates that. I mean, again, hey, Jimmy Haslam, take a cue from James Winston. It's not hard to come out and say what everyone knows. I made a mistake. It's okay. You'll live. There is no death penalty for admitting to making a mistake. If anything, people are going to say, yeah, it's about time and it's good that James does it. And he did throw 58 passes as you said. I mean, he came out of the game with an 88.5 passer rating, which once upon a time was pretty damn good. Now, if you're less than a hundred, it's like, no, I'm out of here, but 88 five with three interceptions. I mean, I'm expecting 38 five with three interceptions, but 58 passes and it happened in a game where you're up and down and you're trying to come back from two scores down. Yeah, you're going to throw the ball and, you know, you're going to, you're going to, you may have an issue. And so I like the fact that he owns it and again, people above him in the organization would be wise to look at that and say, maybe we should own it too. And maybe we should keep this guy around next year and tell the other guy, you're on the sideline. And if you don't like it, you can just go home with your 46 million. Exactly. And I think when you watch the game, you know, the Benito interception to pick six was a good play ball, Benito, he's further back in coverage and kind of sifts through two different people to see where James is throwing and makes a good play there. But then these other interceptions, like they're late in the game of yes, James can't come back late to this thrill, but when you're behind and you're trying to make plays and they kept saying it on the broadcast the whole time, like, you know, James is in a situation where he's just he's trying to make a play here. He's trying to do this. He's trying to do that. Like that's what's going to end up happening. But again, going back to what he said after the game, the thing to me that sticks out is because some people will sit there and say, you know, a tough time. He has a tough game. He says, it's like when you listen to James Winston after all of their games this year when he's been in there, when they won, he said the same thing. When they lost and he said, you know, it's on me. He said the same thing. He said, Hey, I'm going to rely on the Lord. This is what he puts his faith in. This what he depends on. And he says it. He says it before the game. He says it to the team. He says it to the reporters at interviewing before the game. And I think that's the thing that even though it hasn't worked out as much as they would like with him taking over the realness and how authentic he is, it fuels your team and continue to go play like how many teams have we watched. We watched this Cleveland Browns defense early in the year where every week we're like, this defense should be better than that. But they knew like, Hey, we don't really have a shot and we're watching other teams and similar situations. Well, well, like you just you don't have a shot to win. You watch the New York Giants, they like they don't I don't think they really believe they have a shot to win. And I think that's the difference of these teams that when you have a guy playing quarterback and you believe he can make enough plays for us to go win, there's a different level of confidence. Look at this Denver Broncos team like they didn't believe last year that Russell Wilson gave him a shot to win. You get this rookie in here, Bo next he didn't play perfect last night, but he makes some plays that you know as a defense, as an offense, as a team, we can be good with this guy at quarterback. It just helps. And I think that's what teams miss sometimes as you try to get better for the future and you think about, Hey, we got to get this draft pick. We got to have all this money in cap space. Your culture, your culture are the people that you have there. It's not because like playing for the Patriots, not because you want six Super Bowls previously. Now you have a culture. No, it's the people you continue to keep in the building that will have your culture going year after year after year. I think James Wilson is a culture builder and Cleveland like they have to keep that guy there because he's helping these guys in the locker room have something about them each week where they believe that they're winners. And that's not easy to do. My brother was on the Browns when they went over 16. It started become insanity to come in there every week knowing you were going to lose, but trying to trick yourself. He said I would listen to a YouTube motivational clip of a guy given a commencement speech every day going to work so I could believe what I was going to do that day. That's, that's when you know your culture's out of all time low where you don't have that right now. And the good news for the Broncos, they've suffered through that, that awkwardness with Russell Wilson. They admitted their mistake. They doubled down not, they moved on and they benched him late last year and that was a big to do. And it worked out for Russell Wilson. It just wasn't a fit in Denver. It wasn't a fit with Nathaniel Hackett. It wasn't a fit with Sean Payton and they moved on. That's what the Browns need to do. But for the Broncos, problem solved. Bo Nick's gets his eighth win last night. He has doubled the prior franchise record for rookie quarterback wins. It was held by John Elway and Drew Locke with four. He's got eight now. They're eight and five. The bad news for the NFL with the Broncos winning last night. It is pretty clear who the seven playoff teams are in the AFC. The seething is still TBD. But there's not going to be, by all appearance, is a mad dash to finish line for that seventh seed or the sixth seed. Unless the Colts or the Dolphins get really hot and the Ravens or the Broncos fall off a cliff, you're looking at the seventh. When you're down to three teams in the hunt, you know that the seven spots are getting pretty much solidified and the Broncos are going to have one of them. And hey Devin, the Broncos are going to be a problem because what they do once they get Riley Moss back, once they shore up the back end, defense is going to travel. That three headed rotation running back by committee, that's going to travel. And Bo Nick's, he played in Oregon. He's been in some elements. He's going to be able, they got to go on the road to Pittsburgh or here or wherever. They're going to be fine if they have to play away, which they will have to play away from Denver in the postseason. And I agree with you. And obviously as a defensive back, former defensive back, when I look at this defense, you fall in love because they get rid of a trade browning and you're like, oh man, like I thought he was a young good player for the mouse. And then you watch Benito and Cooper coming off the edge and then Tillman and Ellis, two rookies that they found coming off the edge. See Zach Allen in the middle and you see Franklin Myers, like they have all these different guys rushing the passer and getting after it during an aggressive defense. And when they have their three corners in there and, you know, Troy Eggman said it a bunch on the broadcast that, you know, Macmillan had been struggling all year and yeah, when you play a lot of man to man, every game is not going to go well. You didn't play great against the Raiders, but overall, those three guys that have played corner for this team, they've played at a pretty high level. When you got to go out there and play a guy, man to man, every single week, you're going to give up some catches sometimes, but you know, they've been very competitive, obviously certain is who he is, but I grew up 100%. I think this team is built to go win or a team that when you get into playoffs, I think for the teams that are in the AFC, you're confident, you're like, hey, we're better than this team. But I think the coaching staff says there says, if we're not on it the way we need to be on it and we play against this Denver Broncos team, we could be in trouble. They're one of those teams that it's scary to play in the playoffs because what you just said, the defense is so aggressive that the game can change fast. They can get a turnover, strip sack at interception, and then you can kick a field goal score. And next thing you know, you're playing the Denver Broncos from behind and certain teams when they get to play the game, the style that they want to think about the Broncos, they can play from my head and they can rotate those three backs and you have estimate coming in there and you have Williams coming in there, bigger, stronger guys and then McLaughlin comes in there and he's a speed like they can control the game exactly the way they want and you could be in trouble. So definitely have a playoff style team that could be a dangerous out for anybody playing him in a playoffs. McLaughlin had 14 carries 84 yards last night, an average of 6.0. And Juvante Williams, it wasn't quite the Jerome Bettis week one of 2004, five carries for one yard and three touchdowns, but he had four carries for one yard and one touchdown. So that was, that was, that was part of the night. They need that, they need that presence in the running game and they need to have balance. And Sean Payton said it before the game, I believe, or during the in-game interview that a quarterback's best friend is a running game because if that running game is working, it softens up the defense, you can do play action. They're on their heels. I mean, to me, that's the one thing I've picked up from 50 years of watching football closely. If the defense is on its heels, the offense is in a much better position. When you're not predictable, they have no idea what's coming. They feel like nothing's working and you're constantly in that position of what's next, what's next. They go, wait, let's run over here and then they go over here. Let's do this and then they do this and they set you up and they need that, if the Broncos are going to be successful in the postseason, they need that running game, they need that balance and they need that defense and they've got all three and, and that's why, you know, and I hate to say this because watch the Texans are going to win the Super Bowl because I've been saying this for weeks. Now the Texans are the only team to me that looks like they're not going to be ready to compete with the best teams in the AFC. But the rest of the teams that we saw in that graphic, the other six, I think any of them can beat any of the others. Yeah, and, and I think what we've seen from the Texans over the last month, that does seem true. And I think the thing about the Texans is there are just a few kind of fixes in what they do away from being a team that can be just as dangerous as we thought coming in because you got Nico Collins back and he's healthy again. But I think because of the way their offense has been planted and, you know, specifically upfront of CJ Stroud, the pressure he's been taking, I think has now, it's affected him and there's throws and last week against Jacksonville steps up in the pocket. Looks like he has Tank Dale. If he could get the ball out there enough, it's going to be a touchdown and, you know, I think people, you know, are calling a little bit of a sophomore slump. But the truth of the matter is the Texas are playing better competition. You went from a team that was lower in your division and that sets your schedule last year. That's what happened. Then you win your division. Now you're playing all the division leaders. You can afford to be a little off and I think that's what's happened. I think CJ Stroud has now been impacted by what's been happening in front of him. He's been hit so many times this season that now he's sitting in the pocket of, all right, last year I was able to hold the ball at this length. Now I got to get rid of the ball. Okay, but this play calls for me to hold the ball and I'm going to have a guy open. But now I hold it and I'm kind of waiting for me to get hit and a good time, a good amount of times I do get hit. But then when I don't get hit, I'm not as comfortable and confident in the pocket that I should be. And I think that's what we've seen a little bit from CJ Stroud and their defense has been in and out with injury. So if they can get healthy down this back end and I think I truly believe that the key to the end of the regular season is playing good football and finding ways to win. Going into the playoffs like that, I don't care if it's two games, three games. If you can end the season exactly the way you want, your head coach comes in there and says, hey, we need to do these things. These are playoff type of games for us. We need to do that. And you can do it. It creates an energy, a level of confidence that I think if you can do that, you can go in and have a full slate of confidence that the team you thought you could be, that you are that now and now it's time to go do it in the playoffs because the truth of the matter is we used to call it. You got to buy a week, we would call it three games of glory. And you think about that if you played a whole season of 17 games, if we tell you, hey, four games or three games and you're in the Super Bowl four games, your Super Bowl champs, I think teams can believe in that. So whatever these 14 teams, I think that needs to be your goal to end this season, play your best ball going in and then anything can happen. Three straight win for the Broncos going into their regularly scheduled by week. They have the Colts coming out of it. That's one of the teams trying to chase the Broncos. That could be the dagger. They come out of there by they beat the Colts and they're as a practical matter cleanse. They also have charges on a Thursday night. That should be a fun one to watch Bengals and Chiefs to wrap the season. All right, we wrap up segment one when we return. More bad injury news for the San Francisco 49ers who are doing their damnedest to figure out a path the postseason. We'll discuss that next year on GFT Live presented by Ascension. Is it just me or is it getting really hard to figure out the best way to save for retirement? Fidelity can help you find clarity so you can save the best way for you. With a free personalized plan, goal tracking and timely insights, you'll be set to take on retirement your way. Get started at fidelity dot com slash future expenses charged by your investments and other costs and fees associated with training or transacting in your account apply. Fidelity brokerage services member NYSE SIPC. 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