Jim B Speaking to the Barcelona "Easy Does It, But Do It" meeting on March 6, 2024
The Daily Reprieve
Barcelona Meeting - Jim B
[Music] Hello and welcome to the Daily Reprieve, where we provide essays, speaker meetings, workshops, and conferences in podcast format. We are an ad-free podcast. If you enjoy listening, please help us be self-supporting by going to Donate.thewreprieve.com and drop a dollar or two into the virtual basket. Please consider donating monthly by clicking the Donate monthly button. However, one-time donations are always welcome. Just click the Donate Now button. Now, without further ado, this episode of the Daily Reprieve. [Music] Today, the 6th of March 2024, we are very happy to have with us Jim B from Somerville, Tennessee in the U.S., sober since the 11th of July, 2006. He will be sharing on the topic of sober is not well. You get out what you put. You are now on, Jim. You have 25 minutes to share. How would you do like a five-minute warning or some other kind of time? A five-minute warning would be fine. You'll forgive me if I run short. Sometimes I talk real fast to get nervous and I'm done real fast. Okay. That sounds great. You're on. Thanks. Hey, everybody. I'm really glad to be here with 32 participants in this room. That's wonderful. My name is Jim, and I'm a sexaholic, and I've been sober since 7-11-06, and I am very grateful for that. I want to start out a little bit with my story. You know, I qualified to be here, but first of all, I'm a recovering alcoholic and drug addict, and I've been in 12-step stuff since 1981, but in 1996, I had a contact with a, I'm a retired physician, and I want to say that, you know, that's putting it softly retired. I was taking out of practice because of my alcohol, drug, and sexual acting out, so they gave me, they told me, "You can surrender your license right now, we're going to have an emergency meeting to take them away." So there was no grace to me leaving my profession, but they, you know, I, and the reason, and what happened was, in 1996, I had some, some contact with a, with a patient, and it was, it was the first time I'd had any sex outside my marriage, and I did some masturbation throughout, throughout my marriage and throughout my life until my sobriety date, but I never really saw that as a problem, but, but now I know that, that it just kept, kept my disease kind of seething, I mean, you know, smoldering, that's the word, smoldering, until I had contact with a, with a person, and, and that, that flipped a switch in me. I, I, again, I'm a predator, I am not a victim. I, you know, I, I can give a whole talk on, on not being a victim, but, but I'm a predator. One of my treatment centers, I was told that, you know, that there were some stuff going on in my house during my formative years that might have, might have set me up for this, but I just, I just can't claim victim hook, you know, being a victim. It just, it just doesn't work for me. So after 1996, you know, I began, I was really ashamed and, but, but I, but it started, you know, something in my brain, and I began searching around and acting out frequently. As a result of the shame of my sexual acting out, I, I needed some relief. And even though I had been sober in the, in the chemical program for 19 years at that time, I, I knew, I knew I could get some relief all of me at short. And I, and I relapsed on drugs and, and the, the addition of the drugs into my sex addiction, just, I mean, it just skyrocketed my, my behavior into a different level that I had never, never been. So that moves me up till about 2005, when I was asked to surrender my license, and, and in 2006, I went for an evaluation to have my license reinstated. You know, my reason for staying sober for the first little while of my, my, my life, my sobriety life was to get a, was to get a medical license back. And I went for an evaluation in 2006 down to Texas, to the place called Sante. And, and I, and I really wasn't very sober. I mean, I had made some progressive victory over lust, but I was not very sober. And I had, I don't know if any of you guys have ever had a, had a polygraph, a lie detector test. But that was, that was, that's, that's what did me in. And so after, after my evaluation, they said, not only are we not going to help you get your license back, but we think you need to stay here. And so five months later, I left, I went for a three day evaluation and left after five months. I hope that was my last treatment. I've been to six different treatment centers. I call myself a chronic relapsor, but I have not found it necessary to act out sexually or have a drink or a drug since 71106 when I was in, when I was in that treatment center. I had to reach bottom. And I just told you what my bottom was, was, was losing my profession and, and, and all the stuff that went around that. So, you know, I, I got my, I got my, I got my, I reached my bottom from consequences. And I know that some people, and perhaps some of you reach your bottom because of them, you're, you're emotionally, you just can't, you just don't like yourself. And you just said, you want something different. That just didn't work for me because I was so, I guess the chemicals on top of everything else, you know, I didn't, I just didn't have any conscience, conscience, conscience. I didn't have any conscience. And, and so it just took stuff to happen to me to get my attention. So now I get into the solution and into the kind of the topic that, you know, you get out of this deal, what you put into it. I met my current sponsor in 2007, and his name is Steve, and he, he has spoken here, I don't know, in the last month or two, I think. And, and, and it was very, he was a very strong sponsor for me. I mean, he, you know, he didn't fool around. I met with him at his, at his place, at his house, you know, about once a week, and I called him every day. And he, you know, he guided me through the steps slowly and as, as in the big book. I, and he insisted on service. And services is kind of, it's kind of a subtopic of what I want to talk about today. You know, I started, I started opening the meetings and, and being a greater for maintenance. And, and we were, we were a young group in the Memphis, Tennessee area. And we started an intergroup. And, and somehow I became the chairman of the intergroup when I'd been sober, maybe only a year. But, but, but the point is, is that I begin doing service. And I really like service and I liked it early on, because it, it made me feel like I was a part of something, not, you know, that was important for me. I liked it. I like to give back even, you know, even early on when I didn't have a lot to give, I like to, I like to show up. And, and, and my character defects really liked, I had a need to be seen. And so, you know, that, that, I guess that worked for me, even though maybe it wasn't the most pure motive that, that it could have been. Today, well, let me go on through my service. And so, and so I, I would stay in service locally, and I still am, I still serve locally. I sponsor a lot of people I'm retired. And I don't really have a big hobby. Recovery is kind of my hobby. And so I have, I have, I'm able to sponsor a lot of guys. And, and, you know, between, between God first, I think my sponsorship and my, and my ability to answer calls and to work steps with people keeps me fresh. You know, I, you know, I meet, I met with somebody recently about the third step, and about the ninth step. And I've got a new guy now, and I'm excited because I get to, I get to lead him through the first step. And it, and it just keeps me fresh. Steps, steps are the, are the solution. You know, we sometimes, sometimes I get confused about, about what the program is, but, but I've learned that the program is the steps. Fellowship and meetings and rating are all good things, but the steps are where it's at. But, but for one thing, and I, and this is just me, all of this is just me, by the way, I think that God keeps me sober, period. But God has given me some, what I call hoops to jump through while he's giving me sober. And those hoops are fellowship sponsorship meetings, prayer, service, all the things that I do that, that help my character, and help me stay away from my, my character defects. But, but that's, but that's what, that's what the deal is. God's, God's keeping me sober, and I can't forget that. That I can't leave God out of my, of my sobriety. So, in addition to, to being involved locally, my sponsor in 2015, you know, just invited me to think about applying to be a trustee. And man, I just didn't, I didn't, you know, I hadn't been, I hadn't been involved in, in, in national, international service much until that point. I never, I wasn't on the GDA. I wasn't a delegate or an alternate or IGR or, or any of that stuff. But, but I went ahead and I applied, and I was accepted. And so I became a trustee in 2015. And for four years, from 2015 to 2019, I still look at those years as the highlight so far of my recovery. Being a trustee enabled me to go to international meetings. I went to, I went to like 10 in a row, and I'm still, I still love to go to those. I'm going to, to LA in July. And I met people all over the world, and all over the United States through being a trustee. And, and some of those are lifelong friends. And one, one of them is on this meeting, Jean Tay today. He and I served as trustees together. And we became friends and we have a, we have a special relationship, I think. So, so I did that, I did the, the trustee thing from 2015 to 2019. And then when it was time to roll off, I just, I just wouldn't through, you know, with service at that level. And so I kind of did it backwards, but I became a delegate for the Southeast region. And I'm on my second three-year term now as a delegate. And just last weekend, three days ago, a friend and I traveled to Atlanta to Cicero, and we had a regional face-to-face meeting. And, and I just loved that. I mean, we had a great business meeting on Friday night. And it, and it's hooked up within a marathon that they have in Atlanta every year on Saturday. And so I got to serve the fellowship and as a delegate. And I got to, to go to a marathon all day, just this last Saturday. I love, I just love stuff like that. I just, you know, it's, it's just a big deal. So I have found that, you know, back in the topic of you get, you get what you, what you give, doing service and doing sponsorship. And I'm the treasurer of my local group. It just, I mean, it keeps me totally involved. And I promise you this, when my sponsories call me, and I've had one call already this morning, sometimes depending on where I am, emotionally, spiritually, whatever, a sponsor you'll call. And I'll say, Hey, wait a minute, I want to talk first. And I'll just blab about what's going on with me and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk, you kind of get it off my chest. And then I'll say, okay, it's your turn. And so, and so, and that really, you know, I never was good about making phone calls, but I am great about answering the phone. And, and my sponsories helped me enormously to stay, keep, keep surrender to keep, to keep level in my, in my program. So I want to talk a minute about myself. Yesterday, I had a very contentious kind of conversation with my sister-in-law. Something happened. And, and I, you know, I'd been holding some resentments anyway that I really wasn't aware of. And I called her, and I blamed and I told her stuff that that I shouldn't have said, you know, I was wrong. I was wrong. And at the end of the conversation, she said, you know what, I just don't want you to contact me anymore. And man, you know, overnight and talking to my sponsor this morning and and talking to someone else, you know, I knew, I knew that I needed to make a 10th step. And so, and so I did a 10th step with her, but it was, it was, it was through text. I didn't know, I just didn't know whether she was going to answer the phone or not. But I probably need to follow up with the phone call. The 10th step is one of my favorite steps because I'm a loud, boisterous, extroverted guy. And I called, I'd say, what I use the word, I bump into people, you know, I'll say the wrong thing, or I'll, you know, I just, you know, I mess up from time to time. And, and the 10th step is, is, is my way out. I just, I just love the 10th step. You know, I, I find when I'm using it a lot though, I need to take a look at what's going on with me and, and work on, work on why I'm, why I'm having to need the 10th step. But, and I understand about my problem today, or last yesterday, that when I do my 10th step, it's about me cleaning up my side of the street. I can't do a 10th step with expectations that, that the person I'm doing it with is going to give me any kind of positive feedback. It say it's okay, or, but, you know, whatever, it's just about, about me. And, you know, I don't have any control over any, I'm powerless over everybody. I'm powerless over pretty much everything, except for my attitude and, and my sobriety night, I guess. But, but so, so I didn't hear back from her yet, but I've, you know, I've done my, my part, I hope, and clean up my side of the street because of my mess up yesterday. And so, you know, I, I don't even know how long I'm talking now, but if it's, if it's close to 20 minutes, you're at 16 minutes. Well, you know what, 16 minutes is all Jim, Jim Bay is got this morning. I'll be glad to take questions for another hour, but, but, but, you know, that's, that's all, that's all I have right now. Thank you. Thanks, Jim. Thank you, Jim. Hey, thanks, Jim. Thanks for sharing. Thank you, Nancy, for asking me. Thank you so much, Jim, for sharing. I appreciate your willingness to serve and share your experience, strength, and hope with us. Thank you, Margo. Thank you, Jim, for your share. You shared about service, how it helps you and how it makes you feel a part of the fellowship, a part of the community, and not apart from, and I have the same experience with service. But the thing is, it took me a while to figure out what service is good for me because I have, I've had some service positions in the past that really gave me a lot of stress that really made me feel like I'm closer to a relapse because of all this stress, then it is really good for me. And it's now, after three years, that I finally found some service that I feel like, yeah, this is my thing. This is something I really like. I really enjoy. It gives me a lot of, you know, it just, it feels amazing. And I'm so glad I'm also retired. I'm 33, but I'm retired because of medical reasons. So my job is to do service. It's what I do every day, all day. And I really like it. And I don't, I don't think I have a real question. Maybe, you know, what would you say? Maybe I have a question. What would you say to someone who is, you know, not really fond of doing service or didn't find the right service yet or does it because she or he has to from her sponsor, his sponsor? Like, what would you say about that? Thank you. Thank you. One thing I have directly to one of your comments is that you sometimes don't know what to do next. That's, that's where my sponsor, that's where my sponsor guided me. I was fortunate to have a sponsor that had been active, you know, in all the different levels of service. And he's the one that started me come to the meeting early, great people, clean up afterwards, and then, and then take a position in the, in the, in the interview. So I, and then he's the one that suggested that I apply to be a trustee. And so I have looked to him, and I still, you know, I'm still I'm open to him whenever he might have a suggestion of what, of what he thinks I'm doing or what he thinks I should do next or whatever. And so, you know, I, I try my best not to let my service be Jim's will, but, but, but God's will or sponsor's will, you know, God, I think God's extend my sponsor. I believe that, that, that a, that a, that a sponsor and sponsor relationship is kind of like a marriage. I mean, although you can, you can break up and you can get another sponsor, but I believe that God oversees my relationship with my sponsor. I really believe that God is in the middle when we're talking. And, and so I've looked at him for direction and guidance. What I would say to somebody that's not, you know, not, not try it any service yet is to, it's, I mean, it's just like, it's just like, you know, going to a meeting or, or, you know, what makes somebody new, get up and go to their second meeting or their third meeting. I mean, you know, they might have been afraid when, when they went, but once they went, they found that it wasn't so bad. And maybe even it was good. Well, it's the same with service. I mean, first of all, maybe your service is just being a sponsor. And, and, and if your sponsor says that it's okay and, and it's time for you to be able to sponsor somebody, then do your, you know, I don't know how you, how you do it. But in our area at the end of the meeting, we ask anybody that's willing to be a sponsor to raise their hand. So somebody, a newcomer or somebody can come to that person after the, after the meeting and they can, and they can do that. So, so I would say, if you, if you're, if you don't, if you don't know what to do and you're afraid of service, raise your hand at the end of the meeting. If somebody asks if you want to be a sponsor, thanks. Thanks, Jim. Thank you. Not tell me. Thank you, Jim. David G. Hey, everybody, David, sex hall, Jim. Thank you so much. So I just, I find that sometimes I have two parts in me. I have one part of me that loves this program, know it's God's grace, and would do anything for this program. And then in service, sometimes I have a dark sign, which is I have this, I have this mask of, I'm being of service, but really there's this dark side of me that wants you to do it my way. So in your service, how do you deal with the dark side, or do you have the, do you have a dark side? And how do you deal with that as you're doing service? Thanks, David. Gosh, yes, I have a dark side. I have a deep dark side. And, and I like to keep my dark side in the front of me, so it doesn't bite me in the back. So, you know, when I think of my dark side, you know, I talk about it. But if, if my, you know, if my dark side is keeping me from, no, no, no, no, I know, I mentioned this later. This is this is more, more direct to your question. So someone saw I started doing service because I'm like, I have a need to be seen. Well, that's not, that's not the healthiest reason to be to do service work. But that's just what it was for me. And so I did it anyway. I was seen and it was nice. And I was being filled up, you know, by, by other things other than God filling me up. And maybe that wasn't the healthiest thing in the world. But it's what it was. It is what it is. I mean, we are in the end, we are a bunch of sick people. And we're trying to, to muddle our way through lives, watching other sick people do the next right thing. And so, you know, I just, I don't beat myself up too bad when I don't have the most pure motives for doing what I do as long as I think that it's God's will. Thank you. Thanks, David. And thanks, Jim. Hey, Margot. This is Daniel J. I don't see any hands up. So can I jump in? Absolutely. Hey, Jim, thank you very much for your share. I'm Daniel J. Sexaholic. A question, I'm sort of a relatively new sponsor with, with Sponces. What's been your experience or what techniques have you used with Sponces who are chronic relapses? Do you have the words of wisdom for sponsors who may have that issue? Excuse me, but I have a, I have a 180 pound mastiff that's in the room with me. And there's nobody else in the house to keep him out of here. And he's growling and barking. And I'm sorry. There's really not a lot I can do about that right now. We can't hear it. Don't worry. Okay. So, so, repeat your question real quick. I mean, just, I had an idea when we were talking, but now my mind is gone. I'm, I'm sort of relatively new to sponsoring. And I have, well, what's been, you have any tips for working with Sponces who are chronic relapses? Yes, that's, yes, I do. And that's a, that's a wonderful question. I was just on an ad hot committee through, through my region about chronic relapse. And we got some protocols from, from Nebraska. They have a wonderful chronic relapse program. And, and to sum it up, we're, we're starting to have these little, these 15 minute meetings after a meeting. And we, and we know that, and we, we invite anybody that's struggling with relapse to come to that meeting. And we have just a quick, a quick meeting where there's a topic, and there's a time for sharing, and there's a time for saying, how long you've been sober, even if it's for one day or 30 minutes or whatever. And, but one thing about that is, hold on, one thing about that is, is that we invite people to be explicit, more explicit about what they did, because I believe, and I know it's not, you need to raise your hand when you're in a meeting, if somebody gets too explicit. And I understand that. And I believe in that. But in this chronic relapse period, if someone needs to, to be kind of a little bit explicit about what, what's causing them to act out, or how they're acting out, that's, that's welcome there. Maybe it's the only time that somebody has to get, to get that stuff into the light. And I believe that, that, that I need to get my, my, acting out behavior, somebody needs to know about it. It doesn't need to be a secret between me and God. And, and I think that's part of it. Another thing is, I don't know if you, if you've experienced this or not, but when I'm taking people through the steps, you know, one, two, three, four, five. So there you go. You just gave your fist step, and you told some God and another human being, the exact nature of your wrongs. Well, so what do you do with it? We, in my, in my alcoholics anonymous big book, there's only a page about step six and seven. And then you go on to making a list about your men's to make your men's. I think that you need to focus more deeply. And the white book has a great couple of paragraphs about the six step. But the exact nature of your wrongs, you need to, I mean, I really believe that people are, people are relapsing because of lack of sick of thorough six and seven step work. Thanks for that, Jim. I'm Eric. I've got a question. Next we have, we have Daniel next and Bob, did you want to speak? Yeah, I didn't know that it was not a, hello, sorry. Okay, so I don't mind crying, Bob. No, I'm not next. Okay, now because I'm walking in the sense, sorry, thank you. I've got a question. I'm on edict. So I'm last edict and also rock edict. And you have to similar things of me that's really interesting to hear. How did you deal with these two dishes because the root cause is the same. But I actually, exactly the same. Before I started using drugs, I acted out basically for students. When I started using drugs, then I really, really big time in those two editions. So how did you start dealing with these two predictions because they're together a horrible couple? Well, that's a good question, Bob. And so, so having been a member of the other 12 step organization for years before I came into SA, I find that SA is a deeper program that we deal with stuff that's deeper than what's causing us to drink. And when I started working my steps in my SA, I lost the desire to drink also. I still, I've been sober for 17 years now. And I still, I go to two AA meetings a week in addition to my SA to SA meetings a week. And so, and so I'm very, you know, I'm very conscious that I, you know, I, and I sponsor people in that other deal. And, you know, it's just, they have to work side by side, but they're so close. And I just, I don't know, that's how I just, I just work both programs and go to both meetings and, and I'm faithful to, and I know in my, the deepest part of me that I'm a sexaholic and I'm an alcoholic and a drug addict. I try not to deny that. Thank you, Bob. And thank you, Jim and Daniel. Yeah, thanks so much. Thank you, Jim. I really appreciate the encouraging share. Jim, any other tips for taking sponsors through the steps? Anything you really like to do that, over sponsoring for a long time, you kind of realize like all this really works. You mentioned up six and seven, you mentioned sharing, proactively on a call. Anything else? Well, so, so let me tell you, this is just the way that I was taught. And I don't know, you know, I mean, I don't know how y'all do, do a new sponsor. But first of all, I'd, if somebody comes to me, I try and send a bunch of chalas. What? I'm sorry. So when a sponsor comes to me, I give them a few days to make sure, you know, it says, well, when we read how it works, it says, if you have decided you want what we have and are willing to go to any link, then you're ready to take certain steps. So if somebody comes to a meeting and they don't know what they are and they don't know anything and they're into now big time, but they decided somebody told them to get a sponsor and they get one, you know, I try my best to make sure that they have decided they want what I have and they're willing to go to any link. And and some, and every pretty much everybody say, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I say, okay, but I'm going to remind you of this at some point during our relationship when I see you falling back. And so that's one of the first things is is I try and I try and make sure that the sponsor and the sponsor is to the point where he's ready. And then and then I use the step into action. You know those 36 questions at the end of step one and the step into action, I have them answer those questions and go over them with them. There's 12 questions about your sexual history, 12 questions about powerlessness and 12 questions about unmanageability. And that's how I start. That's how I start them in the first step is doing that. And then I have them right out of deal and then presented at the at the meeting and pretty much that's the way I do the first step. If somebody stops calling me or stops following my advice, I don't really like to fire people. I did in the past, but you know, if they stop calling me, I just, you know, I don't do anything. I mean, you know, I say, well, maybe someday they'll call me back and I'll and I'll be here when they call me back. But if somebody, but another tact I use with with sponsors that are doing poorly is, as I might say, you know, you don't seem to be following my directions. If you want to find somebody else that you can follow their directions, that's okay. I won't be your sponsor, but I'll be your friend forever as long as you want to. And you know, I try to do that very gently. That's all. Thank you, Daniel. Thank you, Jim. Nancy. Yeah, hi, Nancy. That's a highlight. Thank you so much for sharing. Really appreciate. I have two questions. Well, we'll see. One of them is you miss step six and seven. And that's the one step that I'm not as comfortable. I see people with lists and lists and lists of defects and, you know, circling them and all. And I see the big book, like you say, two fair grants. And one of them is the seven step prayer. And even in the white book, six and sevens in one chapter, and it's pretty short. So that's one question. When you say you really make sure they do a good six and seven. The other question is to now you mentioned about, you know, are they powerless? Are there any other like basic things? I mean, I've heard what someone say, the 18 wheeler, you know, they'll do that. Or are there any basic things from the beginning? Get down on your knees, pray in the morning night that you tell sponsors. Thank you. Well, so the 18th wheeler is great. And Bill, Bill S taught me to when people are having trouble to go to read that to read the 18th wheeler. And there's a bunch of prayers in there. And to pick out two or three of their favorite prayers and write them down on a three by five card and keep it in their pocket or their bill fall or whatever. And when they come to a problem, come out and read that prayer and do that. Excuse me, just four minutes. So I'm going to, I'm going to do something that's that might make some people mad, but just get over it because this is my, this is my time. There's something, there's a book that it's not essay approved. It's, it's an AA book called drop the rock. And it's about step six and seven. And, and I have gone through that book with the spine with spineses and it's thorough. It's a little book, you know, it's that thick cost $10, but it's thorough about step six and step seven and drop it. Think about dropping the rock. I mean, it's like, it's like we've got this stuff from the first five steps. And it's like this rock we're carrying around and we're trying to swim in the ocean or somewhere, but we got this rock that's pulling us down. We'll just drop that rock and move on. That's, that's the top, that's the, that's the, that's the topic of the book. And that's, and that's what step six and seven do, they'll hold you down. Do I get fired for doing that? No, make everybody mad. No, no, no. Yeah, the other half of the question was, are there any basic things at the beginning that you will teach a newcomer like getting on your knees morning and night or like whatever? Are there any basic things? Yeah. So I try and share my stuff, you know, pretty quick out with a newcomer. And I, and I, and I try and explain to them that, you know, kind of like I said earlier in this call that, you know, what it's a God deal. I don't know where you are and we're going to get to your second step soon, but this is a God deal. And, and, and what I was told and what I did, you know, I'm, I'm kind of a scientist and not, and not, not too, not too much into religion, but I could see people that believe that we're praying when I, when you're in a four or five month treatment center, there are people that are ahead of you and I could see those people and something was different from them and how I was. And so I kind of, I kind of grabbed on to that as, you know, the, I was told in treatment, said, we don't care if you believe what you're doing or not. You just pray in the morning for God or your power to keep you sober. And you pray at the end of the day, a thank you prayer for keeping you sober, whether you believe it or not, just, just do it, you know, and, and a lot of times I have to just fall in directions because my best thing, it's what got me here. So, so you have prayer, prayer for one, prayer for one. And then, and then try and try your best to pick up that phone and get some phone numbers and just talk to people. And my, and my sponsor is I tell them, I want you to call me. And if you don't have anything to say, that's okay. I just want to know what you, learn what you sound like when everything's okay. So when, when, when everything's not okay, I can maybe feel the difference in you and I can help you better. That's another thing. You go to meetings and, and, and read, you know, reading white book, big book, 12 and 12, step into action. Those are the four books that I want people to get. Oh, another thing, when they're reading, I don't know if y'all have heard about this, but you know, a little Webster's dictionary and pick out read two pages a day. I start out reading read, you can read the whole book if you want to, but for your assignment for me, I want you to read two pages a day like you're going to take a test on it at the end of the day and pick out a word or two, you know, during, during that those two pages and just look them up. Even though you may think you know what they mean, look up and see what Webster say they mean because you're going to get some insight into that by doing that. That's another thing. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Jeff. I have a question. Yes, ma'am. I assume you guide people through step nine. Yes. Okay. Once people are on 10, 11 and 12, do you, do they keep checking in with you? Do you, in other words, to take on a new sponsor? Does your group keep growing and growing or do you check in less when people are through step nine or what do you do? Well, so, you know, maybe by the time somebody gets to step nine, they're not calling me every day. In fact, in fact, I don't have time for them to hear from them every day. And so, you know, maybe I'm hearing from them once a week or something like that, and that's okay. But you mentioned step nine, let me just tell you a minute about step nine, and then I'll go ahead and tell you about 10, 11, 12. A lot of people say that they get this feeling of wonderment and their favorite step is like when they take the fifth step. Not so much for me. It just didn't happen like that for me because I told all my secrets. I've been in so much therapy and so much treatment that I didn't really have anything to share about the last time I did a fifth step that there was a secret. But let me tell you this, when I got to step nine and I went around making amends and it's very, you know, my sponsor, my sponsor said, okay, I want you to write out, you take three people, write out the amends, call me, read them to me, and let's talk about them. And then you go out and do them. And that's the way we did it very methodically, not just really nearly going and making amends to people. But I knew kind of what I was going to say, and I had already had some feedback about what I was going to say. But I got more relief from the steps, from step nine, than I did from any other step. You know, what it says on page 83 in the big book, we will be amazed before we're halfway through. And that's exactly the way it happened for me. I was making those amends and I was kind of on a pink cloud. It was amazing. I got a lot of positive responses, not all though. One time I made amends to this person, this woman. And she said, go ahead and say what you've got to say and get out of my face. And that was, you know, that's what happened. I mean, that was, I cleaned up my side of the street with her. She didn't want to see me. I got out of her way. And that's, and that was the end of that. But you can't always expect that people are going to go through and on. Yeah, you're great. Thank you for doing that. And blah, blah, blah. That happens sometimes, but you can't go into an amends with that expectation. All right. Step 10, 11, and 12, yes, I can go. I still go through them. I still go through them. You know, I talked to them about step 10. And, and, and, and in the big book, you know, in step 10, it talks about it has some promises on step 10. You know, we will be, we'll talk about, you know, we're kind of being normal and, and now we do service for others. And there's a whole lot of neat, really neat promises in the 10th step and in the, in the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous. And in the 11th step, I go through it with them. But then here recently, in the 12th step, you know, the 12th step has three parts, having had a spiritual awakening as they result of these steps. That's the first part. We tried to carry this message to other alcoholics. That's the second part. And practices, principles, and all our affairs. That's the third part. I have my sponsors right out five ways that they, that they have had a spiritual awakening. They try to carry the message and they, and, and do that. So, so I, I even have a written exercise for step 12. That's really gone. Great. Thank you so much. So we have a question in the chat from Amr, and I will read it. How can I deal with shame, lateness, unacceptable feelings? I am in the fellowship from three years ago. Longest period stayed sober, and it was 105 days and slipped after that, then left the fellowship for a while. Now I am back again, but all the time, I am loaded with these feelings and thoughts. Wow, that's a great question. And, and some of my treatment, we had a whole, a whole section on shame reduction. I have, I have had a lot of shame because of my, I practice medicine in a small town. And then all of a sudden, I'm taking out a business and I'm stopped. I mean, suddenly within the, in the middle of the week, I'm just not there anymore. And so everybody kind of hears about it and knows about it. And so, you know, I have a lot of shame. I had a lot of shame. And, and for the first year, this is how I, how I deal with my shame. But the first year I went to, I'll hardly leave the house. I mean, I went to, I went to meetings and I went to my therapy sessions and I stayed home. And I was suicidal. I knew exactly where my pistol was and where I was going to go and blow my brains out and all that stuff. And I prayed every day that I wouldn't, when I wake up in the morning, I say, God, please help me through this day without, without doing something bad to myself. Please help me, you know, with my poor, with my bad feelings. It's, it's another God deal. I mean, you know, therapy and meetings and sponsors and all that stuff, they, they, that's okay. They, they help. But God relieves my shame and time, you got to give time, let time, give time some time, time heals all wounds. That's a, that's a little saying we have. And, and, and I really believe that if I don't act out one day at a time, at the end of the week, I'm going to be a little bit better than I was at the first of the week, just giving time, letting me live, let me live one day at a time and experience life. And my shame is going to be relieved slowly. Thank you, Amir, and thank you, Jim. We have time for a few more questions. Hello, everyone. I have a question. Thank you so much for, for what you shared. I actually, I really struggle to break out of isolation. So I was wondering if you have any, any advice on that? Thank you. I'll be an isolated. Yes. I mean, you're isolated. You can't, you don't have meetings around. You don't have people around or I'm sorry, describe your isolation a little bit. No, so I, I isolate. And I don't know how to stop doing that. Yeah. I understand that too. And I was speaking just a, just a minute ago about, about my first year, about, about me isolating. I didn't want to see anybody. I didn't want to go anywhere. Gosh, I went to the grocery store one day and one of my old patients, an older lady, walked up to me and got right into my face and said, what is wrong with you? I mean, you know, that's, that was one of the worst days of my life. And my answer was, I just made a lot of poor choices. That's all I could say. And God put those words in me. And that's anyway. So, you know, for a while, I'm an extrovert and maybe you're not. But for a while, I isolated because I just didn't want, didn't want to face anything. And, and like I just said a minute ago, you know, I gave it time, but, but isolation is kind of, you know, kind of like I, I described, I believe it's kind of like I described earlier. I just, I just had to, and I think maybe for you, I don't want to speak in the third person, but have to make yourself. I mean, just, just do it. You have to make yourself, get out and get in public for maybe an, an easy place. I hope you have meetings that you can go to where you have a lot of people that, that, that understand and you can bring up isolation at a meeting and you can get feedback. You know, I think that would be a great solution. Even on Zoom, if you have, if you're at a meeting, if you can't make a face-to-face meeting and you come to a Zoom meeting and they ask for a topic from the floor, you know, talk about it. You know, let everybody know that you, that you, that you isolate and let them reach out to you. Thank you so much. Thank you for that. Thank you, Diana. Thank you, Jim. I have another quick one. Sponti is working step nine. How do you have them address their spouse? I feel like that's one of the sponsors. I always have a hard time for, you know, the right way to go about it. So I'm sorry. You said you, how you got somebody through step nine? Especially around their step nine amends to a spouse. Oh, to himself. Oh, I'm sorry, a spouse. How you, how you make amends to yourself. To your spouse husband or wife. To your spouse. Oh, oh, oh, yeah. Like how do you tell sponsors to go about it? Okay. Well, here's, here's the thing. If you're talking about disclosure, I really believe in therapeutic disclosure as opposed. I mean, I don't think that when you come to step nine, you know, where it says we admitted, we may direct amends to such to everyone except when to do so with them or others. If, first of all, you don't do step nine after step one, you don't do step nine in order. And hopefully you have grown through the first eight steps. And you are doing this in a good way. That's the first thing about making them, making them amends to your spouse. Now, I know that living with a spouse, you know, they don't want to wait for a year for you to, for you to make amends to them maybe. And if you're, if your amends has to do with disclosure, you know, I think it should be done through, through a therapist. But my amends to my wife, my, I've been, I've been married 38 years and my wife is, is my biggest victim. And she has stayed with me through, through, through my chronic relapse and, and now in sobriety. And she watches me, I make indirect amends every day. My wife has never said I forgive you, but my wife trusts me. She trusts me so much. It's just amazing because she sees every single day that I'm thinking about recovery, or I'm giving a talk to Barcelona, or I'm going to Atlanta, to a, to a, to a Sisera meeting. I mean, she knows that I'm in recovery. And, and that's, and that's the best way that I make amends to my wife today. Not, not, I'm sorry for everything I did in the past. You know, those are those, I said, I'm sorry so many times that I'm sorry, really didn't, didn't carry much weight. Thanks, Daniel. And thank you, Jim. So we just have a couple of minutes left. Any last minute comment or a question? Yes, I've got a question. It relates to the way to comic for that. The question is, did you have sleep problems in your first few years in essay? And how did you get around not sleeping very well? Partly because of fear of acting and say, if I went to bed. I, I, you know, I'm sorry that I don't really have a good answer for that because I guess God granted me with the ability to sleep. And if I can get a little bit explicit, you know, a lot of guys, I don't know about women, but a lot of guys, you know, their hands tend to move around when they're in bed and, and, and, and my, my therapist in treatment made me wear a pair of underwear and a thick pair of pajamas and, and, you know, a lot of stuff like that. So I didn't, I wasn't bothered with that part of it, but I'm sorry, but I, you know, I'm just now, I'm 74 and I'm finding it in the last few months that I'm having trouble sleeping, but, but maybe it doesn't have anything to do with sobriety. I don't know yet. Sorry. Thanks, Kathy. Thanks, Jim, for your honesty. Buddy, we had just have less than a minute. Okay, I won't be less than a minute. I was listening to the last question about that disclosure topic. And Jim, I know for me with guys, I sponsor that disclosure, that's a therapeutic term. And then therapists have no idea what sex hoax anonymous is about. I refer guys, I sponsor to page 81 in the a big book. And it says real clearly in there, not always, we think. And what that's referring to is we don't give that step by step, blow by blow detail to the spouse. I've seen disclosure doing war damage to marriages. And these therapists, they're not suffering the price for it. I mean, they're a lot of, for me, a lot of guys who would have been better served if they listened to their sponsor. And they read any big book of age, 81, before they let that therapist talk them into doing damage. Thanks, listen. Thanks, buddy. Thanks, buddy. And I really appreciate that. And I believe exactly what you say, I just want to make an exception. My my disclosure was in a treatment center, a sex addiction treatment center with a therapist president who was a CSAT. And they knew exactly what they were doing. They did it every day. Thank you, Jim. Thanks, buddy. Thanks, Jim. I would like to thank you for listening to this episode of The Daily Reprieve, the best source for experience, strength, and hope for essay members. Please subscribe to this podcast to be alerted of new episodes. Please show your support by donating to The Daily Reprieve, by going to donate.thedayreprebe.com, and choosing either monthly donations or a one-time donation by clicking donate now. Thank you for listening, and stay tuned for the next episode of The Daily Reprieve. [Music]