The Killer B's: Joel Blank & Jeremy Branham
12/03 Hour 1 - Did the NFL Go Too Far with 3 Game Suspension of Azeez Al-Shaair?
[MUSIC] I participated McDonald's for a limited time. >> The Killer Beast. >> ESPN 97.5 and 92.5 proudly present, The Killer Beast. >> It's definitely a fan of the Killer Beast. >> Don't sweat technique. Now from a Veritex Community Bank Studios, bring you the fastest three hours in Houston sports radio. Here's Joel Blank and Jeremy Branham. >> What up, Bigstown? Hey, how are we doing? >> He's playing Guy Branham, it is Brian behind the glass. It is a taco Tuesday edition of The Killer Beast on ESPN 97.5 and ESPN 92.5. I think today will be a day that lives in infamy in Houston sports. It was the day that Aziz al Shire has been handed a three-game suspension by the NFL. John Runyon, the NFL Vice President of Football Operations who will be named as Karen Runyon for the rest of the show, sending a memo to Aziz al Shire that made it public to all of us to digest and see what was on this memo. But when you saw this news come down roughly at eight o'clock, what do you think of the three-game suspension on Aziz al Shire, Blankers? >> I thought it was too severe. I just, you know, I understand and we went through it in detail yesterday about the hit itself, but the fact that this is to me signs and remnants from what Houston fans have already been through in terms of the Astros. I mean, the Astros were the poster boys for a cheating scandal, and I think the NFL is trying to make Aziz al Shire the poster boy for what not to do ever again in NFL and try to curtail this and try to get, you know, and try and make this big stance as a league. And I think that it's grossly unfair to say three games and the fact is is that, you know, you can rate it for what it was and what you saw and, you know, rule versus fine. And that's one thing. But the fact that you're going this severe, I don't know if you're expecting him to appeal and then you might relent after that, but this is BS to say three games. >> He has appealed. He has filed the appeal. I don't know the process on that in terms of how long that it takes to get the response on the appeal. I'm surprised to hear your stance. I'm surprised to hear your stance on this because you were very critical of Aziz al Shire's hit. >> It was a dirty hit. >> And it was a dirty hit. >> That's why. >> Right. But it was a dirty hit. That's a dirty hit that deserved what he got. Now I think that the aftermath is what probably led to the suspension where I would be okay when I was expecting one game. I'm expecting a one game suspension because the aftermath is something else. The fact that, and I know that Runyon went in detail on his letter, but the thing to me is you get punished for the hit itself. You get punished for the fact that in the aftermath, like you didn't know when to say men, and you can go back and forth in terms of D'Amico's comments or what should your teammates, should they come to your defense or not. And look, I think that there was going to be a skirmish regardless. But the fact that even after he was ejected, the fact that he and Shurf were getting into it again and that he wouldn't leave the field. And this is the second time that he's gone through that kind of melee after a hit probably led to a one game. I don't think it was worthy of a three game suspension. I don't. I think that the NFL here, I don't either. I feel like three games is super, super strict. I feel like it is a massive reach. Now, somewhat expected, look, I expected a ZZau Shire to get suspended. I, I, right from the moment it happened, I expected the NFL to make an example out of a ZZau Shire. If you have a quarterback that's going full to a on the field, you're going to take every bit of that and then regulate that as much as you possibly can, govern it to the fullest extent that is allowed by the NFL PA and the NFL as they collectively bargain the, the agreement here. Now, I think that the appeal is going to shorten the suspension. I don't think that there's any chance that a ZZau Shire serves a three game suspension. I think it's going to be one or two games, hopefully one. Now, I understand what the NFL is doing. So it's part of like, I don't agree with the length of the suspension, but I totally understand what the NFL is doing. We kind of forget that the NFL was sued about concussions and blows to the head and dementia. We forget that the NFL had to pay out over a billion dollars to settle this lawsuit out of court. They settled for over a billion dollars. What does that tell you if they're settling for over a billion dollars that they don't want this in the public eye at all? They're willing to spend over a billion dollars to silence this and to shut it up because they know it's negative PR and they also know that it could ruin them as a business. If this gets shut down because of blows to the head and concussions, well, the NFL isn't going to have a product anymore. So the NFL threw money at blows to the head some years ago and a lot of money over a billion dollars. So what is the NFL going to do whenever a quarterback seizes up in the middle of the field like that? They're going to send a message. That's why I don't think that there would have been a suspension if Trevor Lawrence pops right up and there's never a fight. James Winston got popped in the head yesterday. There wasn't even a flag. There wasn't retaliation. There wasn't a fight. If Trevor Lawrence popped up and there was never a fight, there is no suspension today. But because of the injury and how bad it looked because the optics were terrible, I agree with that they, they penalized them by the maximum amount allowed under the collective bargaining agreement. Saw it coming. I think it'll be reduced down, but yeah, that's where my stance is. I mean, let's also be honest in the fact that, and I know that there are a lot of people out there that were saying, you know, think about this, if this was my home and this wasn't a big time game and it wasn't on TV. But look at what we've seen everywhere you turn on every channel sports show, not just locally, but more specifically nationally. This is one of the top stories. This is exactly what the league is trying to avoid. So he is actually paying the price. And I think the three games is indicative of a guy that again is the poster child for the fact that the league is trying to kabosh this as quickly as they possibly can. And they have to look like they're coming with an iron fist and they are putting their, you know, foot down and they are going to stamp this out and try and prevent this from happening again. Is it fair? And is it right? And is it deserved for Aziz al-Shayir? I don't think so. But I think that that's the message that they're trying to send and why they came with three games. Yeah, this is a, it's a lot three games is a lot. If it actually turns out to be three games for Aziz al-Shayir. I do think it'll get reduced down. Like Todd saying that it's, they had to say three so they can settle it too. Now here was, here's something that, that bothered me. Like I saw, we talked about this in great detail yesterday and we'll talk about it in great detail again today. Whenever I saw the hit, I knew that obviously we saw the penalty. So you knew it was going to be penalized. You immediately saw the ejection. Any, any unsportsman like penalty comes with a fine. So you knew the fine was coming and we all sense that an ejection was coming out of this as well. We all saw that coming. I feel like it was, it's been sensationalized. Like you look at the Adam Schefter's and the Ian Rappapores and then you mentioned it's been on national TV all, like all throughout the day, like they're showing that backwards camera or it shows you behind Trevor Lawrence, which was a lot more vicious than if you look at the sideline camera. So there is some sensationalism to this, John McLean, who was on the Boston to gloss yesterday and the defending, reigning undisputed champion of the car wreck of the day yesterday, called it the, the worst hit he seen in the 48 years covering the NFL. Sensationalism. So like that was always my point of view was that people were overreacting to this, like calling it helmet to helmet. It wasn't that calling it leading with the crown of the helmet. It wasn't that. And I think you see a lot of that sensationalism today from Karen Runyon, the NFL vice president of football operations who battery Chuck tells us in the Twitch chat that he was named the dirtiest player in the game back in 2006. And I saw some highlights of John Runyon laying the boom down to a bunch of other football players, but maybe, you know, game recognized game. Here's what Karen Runyon had to say in this letter today. Not only to Aziz al Shire, but to everybody, here you go, Adam Schefter. Run with this. Why do you do that? It's not a private letter. Why are you doing this? Because you're trying to let everybody know that you mean business. The NFL is, is trying to flex and show everybody look how serious we are when it comes to head trauma. Karen running issued the statement this morning, his letter to Aziz al Shire, that was public to everybody. And we probably read it before Aziz did during your game against the Jacksonville Jaguars December 1st with 40, 20 remaining in the second quarter. Thank you for time stamping it. You were involved in a play that the league capital letter L considers unacceptable in a serious violation of the playing rules. Okay. Video shows you striking the head neck area of Jaguars quarterback Trevor Lawrence after he clearly goes down at a feet first slide. I would argue the head neck area. I don't think that the initial blow was to the head neck area. In fact, I know that the initial blow was to the shoulder. Was it momentum and inertia carry him in the head neck? Yes. There, there is contact eventually to the head neck. He said you led with your forearm and helmet. No, Karen run. Yeah. He does not lead with his helmet. That is inaccurate and delivered a forceful blow to the head neck area of your opponent. When you had time in its space to avoid such contact, I think that's probably the disputable part. Like the forceful nature of it was there still a ton of force to the head neck, maybe, even though it wasn't the initial hit. He talks about the time and space to avoid such contact. I think that's also debatable. Something that you can argue. I think that that's fine. I do think it was a late hit. I do think that generally speaking, we underestimate the speed of the game whenever we're talking about this. Like we have keyboard warriors on social media. Oh, it's so easy to leap over the quarterback. Okay. You go try it, brother. Let's see how that looks. He says after Karen running does after the illegal hit, you proceed to engage in a brawl. Let's remember who sparked this brawl here. Evan Ingram shoved them in the back, which I don't blame Evan Ingram, by the way. You should have the back of your teammate. I don't blame him, but then to say that you proceed to engage in a brawl, he was defending himself. John running continues, which you escalated when you pulled an opponent down to the ground by his face mask. This is whenever he had 24 Jaguars surrounding him and pushing him towards the sideline. And you're saying that he shouldn't have defended himself. He continues after the referee announced you were disqualified for the hit in your unsportsman-like acts. You removed your helmet and re-aganged with your opponent while walking down it across the field. That's true. No argument here, which started another physical confrontation near the end zone. Your lack of sportsmanship and respect for the game of football and all those who play, coach and enjoy watching it is troubling. It does not reflect the core values of the NFL. Your continued disregard for NFL playing rules puts the health and safety of both of your opponents, both you and your opponents in jeopardy and will not be tolerated. Those are some huge words from John Runyon saying that he does not have a respect for the game. Has John Runyon ever met Aziz al-Shire? How could you speak to that man's respect of the game whenever you send this strongly worded letter to Aziz al-Shire? I think that John Runyon crosses the line. I think that Aziz al-Shire could sue for slander. How can you tell him that he lacks a respect for the game of football? See, this is where I think that the lines have to be drawn because to me, and I've heard others go on local media and on shows to try and say similar things about Aziz al-Shire. You don't know the person. You can't get into his character. Now, are there guys that on both sides of the football, I have to live on the edge. We talked about it a little bit this yesterday, too. Certain guys have to play with an edge and play to a certain level, otherwise they might not even be in the league, and they play a certain way. But to take it to the level of degrading a man's character or saying that you know what his sportsmanship is like, or you know what's going through his head, I think that takes it to a different level. I also find it just hard for me to fathom. I understand Derek Brooks is on the list of guys that could have been a guy besides Runyon that could have made the ruling on this. I understand Jordy Nelson could have been. Those guys were not guys that I could see having the kind of highlight history that I saw as well on John Runyon that I have read and seen about his reputation. I don't understand how you have a guy that has been one of the dirtiest players in the league over time. It's a guy that's able to draw this kind of conclusion on this guy. You have to be able to separate who the guy is as a human being and just understand the play itself. You should be judging this on the play. If you want to say there's a past history and a past precedence, well, yes, he's had some other, you know, all final moments. But has there any been anything on a quarterback like this? There was a late hit, I think it was last year against the Saints. But overall this was, you should be basing this on the hit. If you want to say that there's a past precedence, then you can roll that into it too. I just think the three games was way too far. I don't understand how Runyon's the kind of guy that gets to draw this conclusion. And I think that the league has to look at itself because there is no past precedence being taken. They just basically are ruling justice, how they feel on a given moment. Yeah. Slender. I think he's got a Slender lawsuit in his hands, Ziz al Shire. Let the NFL know that you mean business disease, that they're not going to, they're not going to bring your name down with this false information. Slender lawsuit, maybe, maybe a rusty heart would do it pro bono. Maybe 713, 780, ESP and we'll get your thoughts on this. Nick Casario had some strong words when it comes to this. I love that. I love my head coach of the Houston Texans. I love the general manager of the use. They've won my heart, quite frankly. We'll talk a little bit about the Broncos Browns yesterday, the Rockets where they stand in the city of Houston film, don't lie. Dog house. All of it's going to be a busy show, 713, 7803776, we're on the Twitch, twitch.tv/espn975 or on YouTube at ESPN Houston, we're on Twitter as well at ESPN 975 blankers at Pac Man Joel Bryan at SAGT by BMAC, I'm at Jeremy Branham, it is the BZSPN 975 and ESPN 925. Bryan says instead of suspending the Z for three games, they should make them play three games for that at helmet, that would be entertaining. Maybe brutal, maybe inhumane, entertaining, yeah, I don't think that is well. I mean, boxing inhumane, UFC is inhumane, people watch it, split his nose open head button, the guy without a helmet on, was it his nose or was it his forehead? I can't remember. JJ had one too. I think it was. Yeah, he's nuts. I mean, he's he's a lunatic and he was, you know, enhanced a few times in his career. 713, 780, ESP and where do you stand on the Aziz three game suspension? Let's go out to the HR and Pete listener line, Jesse and Conroe, you're in the hive. What's up, Jesse? Hello. Did I, you know, is this for Jesse? Yes, go ahead. Jesse. Oh, sorry about that. How you doing, Jeremy? I'm doing great. Good to get to hear from you, Jesse. Good. Hey, yeah. I want to talk about it. These real quick. And then I have another comment that's not related, but honestly, I mean, I think we're bearing the headline. I don't know if you'll mention this, but congratulations on your tweet being retweeted by Richard Sherman. Thank you. I think that's the main headline here. It did happen. Blankers is rolling over in his grave right now. He's sick whenever I get any sort of praise. You're not making sense. Just throw this crap out there. I'm probably down right now. You're making sense. You know me that well. See? There you go. Go on. Just. No, but my comment on Aziz. Sorry. It's kind of hard to hear you guys, but initially when I saw it live, I did honestly think that it was kind of dirty. I feel like he could have he kind of still drove down with his arm. He could have let up at the last second, but to be honest, I mean, looking back at it now, I'm kind of like, yeah, it's not a huge deal to bang, bang, play like I doubt he's trying to take him out. I don't I kind of take it back thinking it was dirty, but at the same time, I do kind of feel like he could have led up a little. And I think we can all agree that level headed people think that a lot of people are overreacting on this. The other quick comment I had, I tweeted this at Lance and I didn't get a response and that's okay because, but I know his dad was an offensive line coach and this is totally random off topic. I don't have to comment on it, but one thing that really annoys me about running backs is, you know, football is the most team oriented sport that I know of. And to me, a good run game is the success 80, 75, 80% of a good offensive line. And I thought I'd make some score, you know, on Sunday and to me, the very first thing a running back should always do is go straight to their offensive line and say, thank you on 99% of their runs and touchdowns. And they don't do that. And that's just something that really just irks me. I don't know what offensive linemen think of that or what you guys think of that, but they owe a lot of thankfulness to the offensive line. I don't think they get enough praise for it. Yeah. Anyway, I'll be here. You'll comments. Thanks for your time. Bye. Appreciate it, Jesse. Yeah. I think that you can make the case the disease was was borderline dirty. I have no problem with people saying that. That's never been my argument. I also think that he should have been penalized. I think it was late. I had no problem with an ejection and I thought a suspension was coming. So I don't, I don't disagree with any of that. I think people are twisting like what I've been saying, like people are like, Oh, you're defending his ease. I was shy. No, not really. I think there's just a lot of things that go into this whenever you're talking about the hit. I think defensive players are in a very difficult position, like defending the quarterback run. You seek some quarterbacks, not all quarterbacks, some quarterbacks that take liberties with the rule where, okay, let's, let's bait a defender here. Let's, let's get to the sideline. Maybe fake them or going out of bounds and then dart it up field for another three, four yards. We need a lot in college too. Kenny Pickett is notorious for the, for the fake slide. There's some Pat Mahomes videos going around where he does the same thing. Josh Allen did it. So I think it's a very, very difficult position to, to play right now in the NFL when you're trying to defend the quarterback run, I think it's almost impossible. I think that because this is our team, this is our player. This is in our city. You sound like the Colts guy. I don't care what I sound like. You're edgy today. Yeah. Because you can't imagine you sounded like you can't even be for no reason. I don't give a rat's ass about how many- Well, you got a little bother line and I can tell that you're bothered by your reaction right now. No, I'm bothered by the way you do this from time to time. My biggest thing is, is that what we need to do here is because it's a local, it's all localized for us and then it's blown up nationally, is that there's a lot of extra passion. But the thing is, is that I brought this up yesterday, that they have to change the rule regardless. And it's to the point you made last about, about the guys that have done this both in college and the pros. The only way that you're going to curtail this for the most part, if you're the NFL, is you've got to make, you've got to make changes to the fact that the quarterbacks are going to do everything that they're trying to do to get the yardage at the same time, then the defenders are going to be the guys that are paying the fines that are being penalized, that are going through all of this. So it's the actual hit itself, which was dirty. And I think that when you look at it, whether the, wherever the contact was made, the fact that he loaded up with a forum, we talked about that yesterday. The fact that on the follow through, he kind of laid and still pressed down on his helmet after his head, had fired back and hit the turf. I thought it was worthy of a one game suspension. I, as you expected it, it was going to be. We talked about yesterday, the fact that I didn't expect when to play against the dolphins. When I saw three games, I was shocked. And I was shocked because of the fact that this, the first thing that said to me was, you're making an example of this player in this situation. The rule has to change. The punishment has to be consistent and it wasn't consistent. And as it relates to, that's why you can penalize the punishment. It's the rule. It's the hit. The hit itself was worthy of everything that he got up to the point of the suspension. I think if you gave him a one game suspension, I think that that's justified. Everything on top of that, I think, is egregious. But I believe that the NFL has to act and they had the same way they did this when after the whole playoff game between the bills and the chiefs, that it got to the point where they had to change the rules of overtime. I think that this is one of those competition committee things where you have to change this as soon as possible. And you have to start changing the way these quarterbacks are allowed to kind of egregiously do what they do and then, you know, complain when they get hit. And then we have things like this happen. And I think that that's where the league has to be more consistent. And I think that that's where it was completely mishandled at this point. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder if they, if they do look at it, I, I would like them to change the rule too. I don't know that I have the perfect answer. Um, I see a lot of people who just get rid of the slide. That'd be great. I would love that. They're just never going to do that. And you can't do that legally. Like, because again, they've been sued in the past for head trauma. They settled out of court for over a billion dollars. You can't do anything that goes backwards in terms of player safety. So I would love to see it. I think it'd be a better product. You're just never going to see the NFL reverse on some of their player safety issues because that opens them up, uh, to litigation. Quite frankly, I think the other thing too is, is we, you know, they're, they're so hell bent on the excitement of the game and they love the fact that they don't want quarterbacks to stop running. But you know that the easiest way to prevent this is going to be that you take the slide out of it. But that you're right. That backwards, but at the same time, quarterbacks are going to think differently about what they're doing and how they do it. And you know that if they dive when they're a ball carrier and they dive forward, they're still free to get hit. They're supposed to not be able to get hit when they slide. So therefore they know, hey, we can do whatever the hell we want. You're not supposed to touch us. And then they get too cute for themselves like pick it like Mahomes has done. And this is where we are as a, and as a league, they've got to jump in and do something now. They can't keep waiting for the next situation like this to happen. See, my, my two biggest objections prior to the suspension, I'm with you, this suspension's way too long where that people were calling it the dirtiest player ever. That was outrageous sensationalism. And then the second part of it was that it is very difficult for a defensive player to defend the quarterback run, not letting as these outshire off the hook here again, should have been flagged, should have been ejected, should be fined, should be suspended at least one game. The, the position is just very difficult to defend. And I think that people are underselling how fast this game is played. Like you see some of the theories out here, well, he should have been able to readjust his body and slide out of the way, maybe in a perfect world. Yes, that'd be fantastic. He should be able to leap above over a flying quarterback, which again, that's an incredibly athletic move. Yes, you see it, but he's also dependent on the quarterback getting down like this picture right here, Trevor Lawrence, like, how is Aziz al-Shire going to leap over Trevor Lawrence who was sliding down knee first and still keeps his chest upright? You can't jump over that. You can't jump over that. It was interesting that I thought that maybe the one, one thing that the AI geniuses that do these, these whole virtual reality things would do is so that people could understand how quickly everything is moving to understand that a guy, it's one thing to say, you can prevent yourself from loading up your forearm, but it's another thing to say at full body movement at 20 miles an hour or in that range that you suddenly can pull up and directly do like a fly off and not make contact with him. If you want to say, "Hey, I'm going to do my best to stop. I'm going to use my hands outwardly to try and avoid massive contact and the impact of the blow." That's one thing, but even that's difficult because your torso, your body, regardless of what you try to do with your arms is going to make contact that a guy running at you at virtually the same speed, it's like a head on collision. There's going to be contact regardless, and it's probably going to have some kind of impact on both guys. It's difficult, doesn't defend Aziz al Shire, but it is very difficult for defensive players. 713780ESP. I love my general manager though, I'll tell you why next, it is the BZSPN975 and ESPN925. Live from the Veritex Community Bank Studios, here's Joel Blanken, Jeremy Brannen. 713780ESP and Aziz al Shire, spin to three games. I love, I love Nick Cusario more than I've ever loved Nick Cusario before. You played the D'Amico Ryan's yesterday, defended his player, all of that. The general manager has won me over, and I like Nick Cusario in totality, I think he's a good general manager, I like that he is leading the Houston Texans. Now some of his moves and vacuums, I've obviously had some issues with case by case, but overall I think he does a fine job. I have never loved Nick Cusario more than I do today, and I think that I've never loved the Houston Texans more than I do today, coming to the defense of Aziz al Shire. It was Nick Cusario earlier today, talking about the suspension handed down by Karen Runyon. Picture that's been painted of Aziz, quite frankly it's unfair, and I'd say one of the biggest issues that, and I probably speak for a lot of teams, not only Houston Texans, but I think that's all teams ask for is consistency from the league. And I'd say in this situation, I mean quite frankly there's no consistency at all relative to the level of discipline that's been handed down. So when you go back, let's look at this season, okay, we had multiple situations, multiple examples, all right, two really good players I would say, Brant's ejected against Green Bay, right, plays the next week against us, okay, Derwin, ejected, all right, got suspended for one game, and Derwin's a great player, and Derwin's had some other situations that have come up, and it's even going back here, a player that we know well, organizational here, Kareem Jackson, Kareem's a good player, was ejected, fine, ejected, fine, ejected, and then suspended after three games. So we're going to say Aziz al-Shayir, who nobody embodies our program more than Aziz, what he's about, what he's been through, you all know his story, there's not a more selfless individual, more about the team, who's earned the respects, that represents everything that we want this program to be about, I mean this morning he was at a United Way event, so we're talking about some of the commentary that has been made about his character, about the person that he is, about what his intentions are from people that quite frankly don't know anything about Aziz al-Shayir, okay, and after the league to make some of the commentary that he made about lack of sportsmanship, lack of coachability, lack of paying attention to the rules, quite frankly it's embarrassing, so I think the big thing from our, and I talk about a player who's never been suspended, never been ejected, so now we're saying that he's going to be suspended for three games, so look it is what it is, I think the big thing from our standpoint, in all teams want this, it's just some level of consistency, and we've talked at a league, quite frankly, but we don't have a good explanation, Timiko talked to them yesterday, so I mean it is what it is, I'm sure Aziz will go through whatever process he's going to go through, and then we'll deal with it accordingly, but I think what we take on bridges is just the picture that's been painted about Aziz, his intentions, who he is as a person, I mean it's quite frankly it's bull and it's unfair. There you go, Nicocario defending his player, and I'm sitting there watching Nicocario do all that, I'm like, I'm like Toreau Owens with Tony Romo, that's my general manager, I've never loved Nicocario more, I think I've never loved the Houston Texans more, Nicocario won me over, and the additional point to this too though, like even if you eliminate the Aziz al-Shayir suspension partner, they're all rallying around Aziz al-Shayir, I think this does send a message to the locker room, it's us against the world, I think it's okay, here we go, look they're out to get us, let's rally around this, let's make this like a rallying call and try to use this to propel us going forward, we saw this on a bigger scale in Houston with the science dealing thing, like what brought the Astro fan base so close together, what made them had this Houston versus the world mentality, it's because they felt like the majorly baseball Robert Manford was out to get them, I feel like on a smaller scale we're seeing the same thing, here where they feel like the NFL and Karen Runyon and Roger Goodell that they're making an example out of Aziz al-Shayir and they feel like three games is way too stiff. I'm just, the thing that I was surprised and very pleased with from a Nicocario perspective is you think across sports, you can't talk about officials without getting fined, you know coaches are constantly pushing away from what they want to say because of the fact that they're afraid that the league's going to come down with an iron fist and they're going to find him. He not only didn't back away and didn't shy away from that, but he gave examples and specific examples and the Derwin James one is fantastic because of the fact that he had a laundry list of hits and a reputation that preceded himself to say that the next time was the next time was the next time before you finally got to a time where you decided to suspend him, but now suddenly you're going to give three games to a guy who's never been suspended before. So good on him for having all of his notes and crossing his teas and dot in his eyes and giving specific examples because this is what we've talked about across leagues and from college and the way that they're governed, but more specifically as it relates to the pros in terms of all anyone, it's like a strike zone in baseball. All anybody ever asks is the same consistency. If a call is a call and the call is going to be made, it's going to stay the same way. So if a guy does this, the suspension should be that. Now, if you're a Fontes perfect or a guy that has just a hitman reputation and you've done this over and over again, then that's on a different level. And then that you should be able to upgrade in terms of the suspensions and the punishment, but overall to give him a three game suspension and then try and act like this is because of the fact that, you know, the, the, I don't believe that he was flagged for the hit on Caleb Williams. Was he? Oh, that was clean hit. He was not only was he not flagged, it should not have been flagged while he was in the dirtiness of that game. Was he punched for the fight? It was the fight. It wasn't even a fight. Like he just clocked him. But there was the skirmish on the bench with players from both teams getting involved. And then I'm walking away. He ends up hitting him in the face mask, but, but from the standpoint of saying that was a dirty hit on Caleb Williams, no, it's the fact that, and I, it's a different discussion for the fact that it should as he's been in the middle of all that and punched him. That's a, that's a different discussion. I don't think you should have punched him. Right. That's what I'm saying. But, but what I'm saying is in terms of they put that on the list, the punch, okay, but you're being confronted. You are in a very hostile environment. You are surrounded. That is a tough situation to be in. But to say that, you know, that's one of the, you're listing all these different things. Nick had it all right. The fact that he had that ready to go and he is willing to take whatever find he gets for being able to stand up to the bullies of the league, you should be a fan of Nick Caserios today. I mean, I think what Nick Caserio was really upset with was that final piece of commentary. Like if Karen Runyon's going to be the VP of football operations and he, like all the, all the other stuff we might disagree, like the technicality of it, whether it was late or there's, you know, helmet to help. I mean, I think you can look at the fact that it's not helmet to helmet. You can talk about the forcible contact. Like those are the parts of his job. Like these are the reasons where you're suspending you. I understand all that part. I think what really ticked Nick Caserio off was the last paragraph where he says, your lack of sportsmanship and respect for the game of football. How could you say that based on one video, maybe it's probably more than one video. I'm sure there was a series of events that happened in the course of his entire career, but you're watching what five plays over the guy's entire career and you're talking about his level of respect. You're talking about his sportsmanship. That's Bush league. Like if you're going to be in position of power in the NFL, give me the reasons why you're suspending me. I don't need your dang commentary talking about my player. But the other thing too, Jeremy, is the fact that he's the guy that draws this straw and is the guy that the league wants out there to make the decision on this kind of a play with his reputation. Derek Brooks was the defensive player of the year. Derek Brooks is about it as upstanding a person both on and off the field as you're ever going to find. Jordy Nelson is starched for God's sake. Those are the kind of guys when you're getting into a situation like this that you can understand whether you agree with the ruling or not. You don't set yourself up for people to point back and do the things that they rightfully done going. How do you take a guy like John Runyon who was the dirtiest player in the league at one point and allow him to be able to call character and sportsmanship out on a player right now? Why are you allowed to determine what's right and wrong and make those kind of accusations? I think it's a horrible look for the league. And I think that it was handled completely wrong in that regard. But I still believe that the three game suspension, he's not even worthy of that if not for the fact that this has gotten blown way out of proportion by national media. It'd be like Rick Flayer being on the ethics committee like you're the dirtiest player in the game. You can't be on the ethics committee 713780 ESPN. Let's go out to the HR and Pete listener line, Rob from the Southwest side. You're in the high. What's up Rob? Hey guys. I appreciate you taking my call. I'm going to sign a big credit. You just want to get your opinion on this. I really feel like at some point to take any chance or any choice of a player pulling up on a quarterback or there's always going to be the player that's willing to hit a quarterback slide. I really think at some point once a quarterback passes the line of scrimmage, it's going to end up being touched football. They're going to get touched down and the play is going to be dead, kind of like a spring game in college football. Just to take any chance away from it, I think it's going to be either going to go to that or they're going to have to make all quarterbacks able to get hit because it is just such a sad, I mean Trevor Lawrence runs a 45, 44, 44, and it's just no time to make that choice. Yeah, I think it is very diff. I think people are underselling the speed of the game like they're like, Oh, look at that. That's five yards of separation. Okay. Well, as he has his momentum going forward, Trevor Lawrence has his momentum going forward and yes, he could have done better. I'm not saying that he made the perfect play. Yes, he could have done better, but people are so, so vastly underselling the speed of the game and the level of athleticism that is required, like I've been on the side lines of college football. That's fast. The NFL is way faster, way faster. Like I can, I understand how like what a big request it is, not just as he's outside or talking about all defensive players in general, I understand how big of an ask it is to tell a defensive player, Hey, go stop that quarterback. But then if the quarterback shows that he's going to slide back off and then you see some videos of Josh Allen, Pat Mahomes, Kenny Pickett in college, a bunch of college quarterback that take liberties with the rule, they'll dig ya. And then all of a sudden they're by you for 20 yards. Like what is a defensive player supposed to do? And they're not going to eliminate the slide rule. I wish they would. They're not going to. They can't go backwards in terms of player safety. I don't really know the perfect. I saw somebody on Twitter mentioned to me today that have them like fair catch thing. I don't know how that could really work or just like throw the balls down whenever a guy gets near them. But that's a little bit tough because now you bring in fumble and ladder rolls and forward passes and all of that. But yeah, it's not a perfect system. No, and I know that that extra yard is what everybody's talking about because it's where he starts the slide, but but at the end of the day, that shouldn't matter. They have to be able to do something to try and help the defender out because to your point, like if you tried to say, Hey, run as fast as you can, I don't care what your age and conditioning is. But if you try and run as fast as you can, then someone like a coach goes, Okay, right now switch directions. You have no concept of I've been I've been on the sidelines for NFL games. I've seen a guy fielding a punt get fair caught and still get hit the sound it makes. The impact when it happens when you're that close to it and you realize like you freeze for a moment going like that's a that's a car crash on on a hundred like it is unbelievable the speed of play that these guys are going to and to say that you think that you can draw the conclusion that he can change directions and miss a guy. And oh, by the way, if you touch him, the ramifications are going to be unbelievable on you. When you know that the quarterback knows that and he knows that he's being protected to where he can kind of mess with you, you have to even the playing field some way for the defender as well. Yeah, maybe, maybe the best answer is just if you're, if you're gaming the rule, if you're using the, you know, the spirit of the rule against the defender, then we're going to penalize you and you give the official all the leeway in the world that if you think a quarterback's, you know, chopping the steps down and showing you the precursor of a slide and he doesn't slide flag like I don't know the best way you can do it because you're not going to take away the slide. They can't go. They can't reverse player safety. You're not going to have the quarterback throw the ball down or do the fair catch thing. I think that's kind of silly. So I think the only way you can do it is you give the officials the power that if you see the quarterback, you know, basically mocking the spirit of the rule and they, they, they show any semblance of giving up themselves and sliding or stepping out of bounds and then they slow down to take a hit or they fake the slide and keep running. I think you have to, I think you have to make it a 15 yard penalty and maybe even a loss of down. I think that might be a solution that has to be considered because I'm sitting there going through all the different ways. You can't ask a quarterback that gets out of the pocket too to suddenly all of a sudden decide, well, you can't pull the parachute. You can't suddenly just say, now don't hit me and as a defender, you can't stop and you're trying to avoid the kind of impactful collisions that are going to cause longstanding injury. The game is too fast and it's too physical to ask guys to suddenly push a button or be able to stop like a video game and say, okay, now you can't touch me or now I'm going down. And I think maybe that's it. Maybe it's you leave it in the officials discretion to say and if you have to go back up in the box, you can look at it, but if you start doing the pitter patter thing and you start looking like you're going down and then you stay up, the old Kenny, I think Kenny Pickett was the most egregious college, that should not only not result in a touchdown. You're right. You should be penalized. And to be clear, I don't think Trevor Lawrence did that. Like I've seen people come and be, well, you're saying this because you think Trevor, no, I don't think that Trevor Lawrence, I don't think Trevor Lawrence anything wrong. I think you can make a case that it could have been done sooner, but I could go either way on that. I'm on the fence with that. I don't blame Trevor Lawrence for anything. So whenever we're talking about a quarterback using the stutter steps and, you know, faking that there's, I'm not saying that Trevor Lawrence did that 713780 ESPN. I think Nick Casario brings up another interesting point talking about the style that they play defensively. I'll get to that. We return. It is the bees on ESPN 97 five and ESPN 92 five. You've found the killer bees life in the Veritex community bank studios. Here's Joel Blankett, Jeremy Branham, we'll get into via the other aspect of this from a defensive philosophy in a moment 713780 ESPN. Let's go out to the HR and Pete listener line, Jordan and Warren. You're in the hive. What's up, Jordan? Hey, guys. I know I'm going to be in the minority here, but I think that even the one game would be overkill in this situation. I mean, the flag, the ejection, the fine all expected and warranted, I would say. But I think comparatively, the punishment does not fit the offense in this case for even a one game and I know that, you know, that's probably the least that is going to happen just because of how big it's blown out in the media. But I think three games is insane, but I just wanted to say that the reaction to the fight afterward has been completely one sided. I mean, the letter where he says that it was, you know, outrageous that he engaged in a physical altercation after the fact, you know, that wasn't, it wasn't 20 Texans over there surrounding him. And that was the fights, then all the outrage blamed at him whenever, you know, he was mobbed and I think, you know, of course, there's got to be some punishment. But I think this has just gotten blown way, way out of proportion. Appreciate it. Paul Jordan. Look, I think that there's rules in every league in terms of exiting in a very, very precise manner, once anything like any kind of ejection is established. The fact that he didn't do that. The fact that, yes, he was basically all by himself, but he was still looking for it and he was looking for more. He found, he found it, sheriff was looking for him as well. Do you, who do you think instigated that part of it? I'm sure there were, or Aziz. I don't think it any, I think that there was plenty of chirp and still coming from the sidelines. I'm sure. And I'm sure that there was talk going both ways. I don't remember if Aziz was walking off though and sheriff like, oh, I think, I think he was, I think he was yelling at him. I think that I think that they were still yelling at him, but at a certain point, whether Aziz was in the, in the end zone, like with a group of his teammates in the, yeah, sheriff came. Now, he didn't instigate, like the Jaguars play, didn't instigate any sort of physical contact, but he was yelling at him that riled up Aziz and they got in each other's face and it went on from there. That's also on league security, team security and everything that should have been on the field at that point. Right. Right. But I'm saying that's why, and I don't know the exact terminology used and it varies from league to league, but essentially the minute that the ejection has been laid down by the officials, you are supposed to be escorted to your locker room as soon as possible. And then if you stray from that, then it's supposed to be on you. But in this case, you can, you can say that, you know, you're in hostile territory. You're on the road. You're, you're by, I don't know if you have to exit by their bench or did he just stay down on that tunnel. Right. Like you're going, you're going up your tunnel to the, to your locker room. I, I, I'm trying to pull up the video and the internet's being slow. I thought that he was walking towards the tunnel. I thought he was walking towards the end zone going towards his tunnel or the end zone on the side of his tunnel going, like on his way to the locker room and memory serves like he sheriff came yelling at him and he's like, okay, well, I'm going to, if you're going to yell at me, I'm going to yell at you back. So like, I think that should be taken into account, not that I'm blaming sheriff. I also think like, well, that you engaged in a brawl. What did you want to see? I was shot here to do in that moment. He's defending himself. He got shoved in the back, not blaming Ingram. I would have done the same thing. He's being ushered towards the Jacksonville sideline by a herd of Jaguars. What did you want him to do? Like so that aspect of like putting that in there, like, well, these are the other reasons that you're getting three games. What did you expect them to do in that moment? I think you're, you're expected to, and this goes into like the, in the preseason and everything else. They're trying to tell the guys how to act. But until you're in that exact moment, I don't think that anybody can understand that the lack of ability to kind of control your emotions sometimes when you're, when you're that fired up, it can be, it can be tough. But the fact is, is that they're, they're trying to grasp at straws to justify three games and, and they're trying to do their best to, to try and, you know, backfill the fact that they made a decision based on trying to make an example of a player other than the fact that, you know, the hit was warranted a one game suspension in my mind. But to get to three, now they're trying to look at ways that they can try and justify. Yeah. And they're going to say, well, he has priors, which, I mean, is accurate. But Nick Seria, like you mentioned, he brought the receipts to the press conference today. And here are other examples of guys that have been suspended a game and it doesn't add up the consistency. Like, as he does have late hits, as he did punch, Sean Johnson on the sideline, he had never been ejected out of a game. He had never been suspended for, for a game. And all of a sudden he's getting in three. Like, where are the escalators here? Usually you get suspended one and then maybe three, but you go straight to three. Don't know what is the, the whole monopoly, like don't collect $200 or whatever when you pass go. Go straight to jail. Yeah. Like, this is what they're doing with the Z's. Like, we're the escalators. That's why I don't think it's going to stay at three games. I think this is going to hit the uphill process and be like, okay, there's no, there's no precedence for this. And we're going to reduce it either a game or two. This is also the way that they say face. Hey, we dropped a hammer. We, we came at him as hard as we could, but at the, at the end of the day, he's not in Domicansu. In Domicansu was probably the most recent example of a guy that had numerous different outbursts on the field that were egregiously against the rules to where you could say, hey, if he does something again, now it's going to be past precedents, times, whatever, because of this is a continuing offender doing the same thing yet again. And we're going to go higher to try and do more to try and convince him to stop doing this. But in this case, it doesn't warrant it. And I know so many people have said, if this is, if this is CJ getting this hit, do you feel different? If this is CJ getting this hit, depending on the background of the player, I believe that it's a dirty hit. I believe that the guy should be punished. I believe he could, he should be suspended for a game, but I don't think it should be three games. Yeah. Yeah. Three games is a lot. I'd be shocked if it stays there. 713 780 ESPN. Here's another aspect of this that we touched on it yesterday, but didn't really dive into it, Nick Casserio talking about their philosophy defensively and how much they want to swarm defensively. Like we want to play fast physical on defense. I mean, everything starts with swarm. It's about running. It's about getting as many hats to the ball. It's about getting a ball carrier on the ground. And as long as the MECO Ryan's is a head coach, like that philosophy is not going to change. So we have to find players that have that mindset that fit that mentality, which I would say we got a boatload of them on defense or on a field, you know, which is a lot of pretty good on defense. All right. So whenever you have the philosophy of flying over the field, you want to be a violent defense, you want to swarm, you want to be very, very physical, which by the way, are all things that I wanted to defense. I want my defense flying over the field. I want them to be violent. I want the other team to be scared of playing my team all within the extent of the rule. I'm not saying to break rules, but whenever you do have that mentality, you're going to pick up a couple of penalties a year. Like it's just this. It's just the style of football. Whenever you employ in Domicong 2, you're going to get a couple of personal fouls. Whenever you play this style of football, you're going to get a couple of personal fouls. Whenever you employ Brett Favre, he's going to throw a few interceptions. Whenever James Winston's your starting quarterback, you're going to throw a few pick sixes. Whenever you have this aggressive style of defense, you're going to have a few plays this year, a year, or you pick up a couple of penalties. It goes with the territory. There's give and take when that's your style of play, there are going to be a couple of times that are bang bang. You might not think this is bang bang, but that are bang bang where you're going to get penalized. You know, the other name that comes to mind is James Harrison. James Harrison forever was a player playing on the edge. He was playing the exact way that Nicoceria was talking about, and he was an all-world defensive player for the Pittsburgh Steelers forever. But part of that is because his coaching staff is also instilling that in their mindset. And you know, as the younger players, and this defense is surrounded by a lot of young players, you know, early in their careers, they're not going to go against the wishes of their coach. Their head coach happens to be the guy leading their defense as well. But they know that this is the way they're supposed to do it. You can't play defense regardless in the NFL, but you can't play the kind of defense that they're talking about playing if you play apprehensive. If you play looking to not get fined or penalized. So I understand exactly what they're saying, but I also believe that a Z also has to play smarter because as the sheriff of this defense, the guy that has the green dot, the guy that's controlling everything, I think he has to understand the massive drop off when he's not on the field and understand, I know this is what he, the way he's had to play to get where he's gotten in the NFL. But at a certain point now with the significance that he plays in this defense playing that style of play, I believe that he has to also play smarter in the fact that you are going to hit the way you're going to hit. I don't think it was necessary for him to get the forearm involved in that hit, but I do believe that it's very hard to basically say, hey, you were able to fly over him or not touch him. It's just very difficult to take the personality out of a player. Charles Barkley is always going to play with an edge Vernon Maxwell is always going to play with an edge. Like it's the personality of the player and in this case, it's a personality of the defense. They don't want to be dirty. They don't want to be cheap, but they do want to be violent. They do want to swarm over the field and it's a very fine line. I agree with you. It is fine line. And you, you are going to be like, hey, Z's we're going to, we can't have you missing three games. It's important to us at the same time you want to see he's flying over the field. No, you want him flying over the field. And this is the difficult part of it when you talk about a fine line is the restraint of being able to say, I delivered that blow. I did that. That's already in the past. What I can't do now is exacerbate all of it by fighting every chance that I get confronted by a team, a guy from the other team. Now, I'm not saying you had to raise your hands up in the air and say, Hey, I'm not trying to fight. Don't touch me. But at the same time, you're too important to this team. We hear all the time athletes saying, I can't let my team down. I can't do that to my teammates. And that's where it's tough because, you know, you have, you have certain filters too. And when you've been pushed and shoved a certain way, you're going to react. Let me phrase it this way. If you could, you could have a defense that's swarming, that's flying over the field, they're physical within the roles, they're violent. They're going to make the opponent feel them, but you're going to have three personal foul penalties a year over the alternate option of having a soft defense that's playing on their heels, that they're flat footed and they're not picking up the penalties. Which, which would you prefer? Option A or option B? Obviously in the NFL in a violent sport, you can't take option B. That's why it's never going to be successful, but what you can do as part of your coaching is also remind players that that penalty is going to get called. But what we can't have you do is then take it to the next level to where we lose you. I understand. But I just don't think that you can say we want to be the most physical team in the NFL. We want to swarm more than anybody else in the NFL and at the same time be the least penalized team in the NFL. They don't go hand in hand. It's give and take. I'm not saying that they're going to be the least penalized team in the NFL. I'm saying that it's a very, it's very difficult to tell any, any player that you have to ease up and I'm not saying to do that. I just think you have to be smarter about how you react if a penalty is called, if a situation like that comes down to where throughout sports, you see it where the coaching basically says, you can do what you did. We want you to play that certain, that style of play at it, but you cannot retaliate when they come at you. You can't do something to take it to the next level to where now we need you. You're not there and now we can't play the style of play. We want to play as well as we were playing. Let me ask this one too. You can either have Aziz al Shire hit Trevor Lawrence is going to cost you 15 yards and maybe a game or two or you can have the dude that's faked out by Kenny Pickett, which of the two would you rather have? You can have a guy that hits the quarterback and you pick up a 15 yarder or you have the guy that's kind of tentative whenever a quarterback may or may not be sliding and all of a sudden you got to touch down. But it's the very extremes. You know what the answer is, but at the same time, that's the very extreme to the example. I think it's a real life example. I think you can have it also implies though, there's no middle ground. I think there is. No, I'm trying to say which philosophy do you, would you rather have though from your defense? Like do you want to have that aggressive philosophy where you might pick up a personal foul or do you would you rather have the passive personality where nope, all hands off the quarterback. I'm never going to touch him. And if I get deep to time or two, well, that's just how we're going to do it. I mean, which of the two would you rather have? Extreme sliding scale. You frame two extremes. Absolutely. Two extremes. Yes. Understand that. But it's also goes back to like the Runyon part of this too. I think Derek Brooks was a guy that played the linebacker position. I think he would have been perfect to be the guy drawing judgment on this. I also think Derek Brooks was a guy that was able to play as physical and do the things you're asking him to do. He's defensive player of the year. He was all these different things. I don't think Derek Brooks was ever considered dirty. And I think that that's why too, the leeks are taking that and I think there is there is a way to coach players up and have players that can do both things. I just think that you're going to have some give or take whenever you're going to be the most physical team in the NFL, you're probably going to be the most penalized team in the NFL too. A 713-780-ESP and HR and P listener line will continue this on the other side. River on hold. A bunch of text on this. 713-780-3776. It's the B's, ESPN 97-5, ESPN 92-5. ESPN 97-5, presented by Zadok Jules. Hey, FNC, 979-HD2, Montbell, W. Houston. When you think about businesses that are selling through the roof, all birds or skims, sure, you think about a great product, a cool brand, and brilliant marketing. But an often overlooked secret is actually the businesses behind the business, making selling and for the shoppers buying, simple. For millions of businesses, that business is Shopify. Nobody does selling better than Shopify, home of the number one checkout on the planet. And the not so secret secret, with ShopPay, that boosts conversions up to 50%, meaning way less carts going abandoned and way more sales going, "Pfft!" So if you're into growing your business, your commerce platform better be ready to sell wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling on the web, in your store, in their feed, and everywhere in between. Businesses that sell more sell on Shopify. Upgrade your business and get the same checkout skims uses. Sign up for your $1 per month trial period at Shopify.com/audioboom. Go to Shopify.com/audioboom to upgrade your selling today. Shopify.com/audioboom. Your child's first step is a big step towards their future. With first step by college invest, every Colorado child born or adopted on or after January 1, 2020 will receive a free $115 contribution to their college invest college savings account. Plus, we'll match a percentage of your contributions in the coming years, helping you save even more. Enroll today and start your child off on the right foot. Is it ColoradoFirststep.org to get started and claim your $115 now? It is Ryan Seacrest here. Everybody needs some variety in life. That's what I love about Chumba Casino. They know how to keep things fresh and exciting. All their games are free to play. Like spin slots, bingo and solitaire, you can claim free daily login bonuses, too. And they release new games every week, so spice things up with ChumbaCocino.com now for your chance to redeem some serious prizes. Sponsored by Chumba Casino, no purchase necessary, VGW Group, void where prohibited by law, 18 plus terms and conditions apply.