Host Sharon Hinton invites guests Laurie Radwin & Marlon Solomon to discuss re-zoning in Roslindale & Hyde Park, its lack of transparency, gentrification & displacement, streets & squares, the traffic influx & disparity of curbside parking for merchants of color, inconvenient & mis-communicated community meeting times, & more.
WBCA Podcasts
Black Teachers Matter
(upbeat music) Good evening and welcome to WBCA LP 102.9 FM in Boston, where Boston's community radio station. And this is Black Teachers Matter. Another edition with your host, me, Sharon Eaton Hinton, producer and host. And as usual, I have an amazing show for you because I have amazing guests. That's how we do it here. I have two guests. One is in the studio now. One is on his way like Santa. Although I don't believe in Santa. And we're going to be talking about streets and squares, squares and streets. Either way is a kind of convoluted way. Squares and streets that Rosalindale, well, we'll say Rosalindale's Mary because she does live there. Mary Michelle Wu and her, why does this thought of minions come to mind? No, it's not minions. But people that are working for her believe that they can reconstruct and redo and retool and refigure the main streets, the economic centers or what is going to be designated as the economic centers in major cities and major areas in the cities. Tonight we're going to talk about Rosalindale. And so I have with me this amazing woman and she actually has her significant, I don't know if he's, are you saying her significant other? Tonight he is. (laughing) Laura, Laura Radwin. And Laura Radwin, let me get it together. I did just drink some water. Laurel Radwin is actually the founder and she's the key person I've been talking to about the Rosalindale coalition. And we've got all sorts of fact sheets and she's an RN and a PhD, which means, you know, if you have a BA and you've got an MS, you know, or a BS and an MS and PhD that means BS. And then more S and then piled higher and deeper. But she's deep in another way. She's the advancing global patient centered care is where she's coming from. But tonight where she's coming from is all about squares and streets. And so I want to say, good evening, Laurel. How are you? - I'm very well, thank you. - Oh, wait a minute, wait a minute, hold up. What am I doing? Go ahead, now talk to me. - I'm very well, thank you, Sharon. And thank you so much for having us to talk about the rezoning of Rosalindale that is also being rezoned our Hyde Park and two centers in Dorchester. So there's a lot of people being affected, a lot of things to think about. - Yeah, there's a lot of things to think about. One of the things to think about that people may not recognize as affecting them. - The first visual aid that we can use, if someone is a driver, whether they're a driver or a passenger on the bus or you're a bicyclist or you are a pedestrian, are these little white little pontoons and different lines and everything that's happening all over the city. And they seem to have popped up over the night, overnight like mushrooms, although it's been, you know, so some of the things that we want to dig into tonight are the process of how this is happening, how it's continuing to happen and the lack of transparency and people that are making decisions. So I've talked to people, you've actually been involved in some surveys and going to meetings, a lot more meetings than I want to be bothered with right now, but I live in, I'm not gonna tell you where I live, I live in Boston 'cause some of you guys will creep up on me and I'll have to have the dog bite you. So I'm not gonna tell you where I live. But we both live in Boston and over the past year or so, definitely towards the end of the pandemic, they have started to be these little geometrical signs, white lines and different signs of, you know, drive as if your child lives here, but along with these little barriers, sort of sick things, cutting down and making bicycle lanes. Now I'll tell you for the people of color that I've spoken to that saw these bicycle lanes showing up on like American Legion highway and coming to highway and Siva Street and all these different construction things. This is what I heard from my people that look like me. It was like, you know they ain't doing that for us, right? So we're gonna talk about gentrification tonight. We're gonna talk about redlining tonight. We're gonna talk about a few different things tonight. And the other guest that's coming is Marlon Solomon. Now Marlon, I actually interviewed upstairs in my other talk show, in my other life, on another level. My cable TV show that's on Comcast channel six because he's the founder and he's an engineer and he is the lead instructor of Afro-American Institute and he actually has a podcast, Afro-American TV. We're not talking about his stuff tonight though. We're talking about squares and streets, what's happening in Rosendale, what's happening in this city that is changing, really, really changing what's going on in this city for everybody who lives here, who works here, who drives through here because there's a lot of traffic that comes through Matapan Square and they come through Matapan Square. There's a lot of traffic that comes from outside through Dedham and then Rosalind Dale Square and they come through there. And so the challenge for the economic centers or the squares is how do you get some of this money that's coming in and out of the city? How do you get them to stay? How do you get them to spend the money? Especially if they are not homeowners here 'cause that's part of how the city and state and federal government generates revenue to be able to provide these nice streets with all the holes in them, the little two tiny streets. If anybody's had been anywhere else, especially in LA or something, are regular streets and expressways? I mean, our expressway looks like a regular street, not even really when I think about it 'cause I was just in LA. The streets in California are built for drivers. The streets in Boston are paved over cow paths. They don't make any sense. They're not like New York, ABCD or 123. They're not like DC and they're not like LA. These cities were planned out. The city is now trying to, the city is now trying to, Marlon, don't go anywhere and just stand right there. No, no, no, there's no sh, brother. You creeped in late. (laughing) - Don't tell everybody. - You're getting in the notes, see? We had this planned down, but you know, Laura's better half open up the door for you. I didn't make you stay outside, but anyway. So we are gonna take a short break right now 'cause we have our guests here. And we're talking about streets and along with the streets comes traffic. And so my second guest was American. You know, he came in on time when I'm talking about him, but we are actually gonna be able to open up the mic and you get to see him. You got to see her and you get to see him and we'll get to adjust everything. And if you just tuned in, you're listening to Black Teacher's Matter. Another episode we're talking about squares and streets to the Marlin Solomon and Lauren Radwin. And this is WBCALP 102.9 FM in Boston where Boston's community radio station gonna take a break and we'll be right back. - Psychology, social worker, drug expert, sex counselor, substitute parent and friend. Now those are some of the things teachers have to be before they even get down to teaching. Now the more you know what it takes to be a teacher these days, the more you realize that it's one of the toughest, most important jobs in the world. So what can you do to thank your teacher? It's simple. Learn. (gentle music) - This newspaper's got good news and bad news. The good news is that it's loaded with jobs for accountants and lawyers and nurses and carpenters and every other kind of skilled worker. The bad news is that there isn't a single ad for a school dropout, at least nothing you'd want. The more you know how tough things are for school dropouts, the more you'll see you have no choice. You have to stay in school. Think about it. (gentle music) - I can't believe that some of you guys still think it's cool to drink and drive. Well, read my lips. Anybody that's going to drive me home has got to be in condition to get me there in one piece. The more you know how I feel about drinking and driving, the more you know that if you drink and drive I'm not going anywhere with you. But if you happen to be the designated driver, well, you can take me home anytime. (gentle music) - I don't know. Help me out here. It's a punching bag, right? I mean, it doesn't talk, it doesn't lie. It sure doesn't give you a hug when you need one. Yet some of you insist on mistaking your children for it. How's that possible? I mean, when you hit a punching bag, it doesn't cry. (gentle music) - Back in the fifth grade, I had a favorite school past the time. Teacher, torture, or Mrs. Chilton Fry. A left fake vomit on her desk. Set off stick bombs at lunch. Handed the class hamster, light blue, and the thing was, I liked Mrs. Chilton Fry, and she liked me. And I learned a lot that year. So, told the teachers who helped kids learn in spite of themselves, thanks. And Mrs. Chilton Fry, did you find those dead frog parts? (gentle music) - Some guys will try to tell you that hanging out on the street and messing with guns gets you respect. - Well, they're wrong. - They're dead wrong. Because sooner or later, you're gonna kill someone and you're gonna do time for it. Well, someone's gonna blow you away because they know you're wrong. Don't kid yourself, man. You know what happens to guys who carry guns? Why's up? It's your life we're talking about. Don't let a gun kill your future. (gentle music) - Why should you care of some kid from across town drops out of school? I'll tell you why. Because that kid and every other kid just like him is gonna end up on the streets. And maybe they'll be stealing cars or dealing drugs or worse. That's why you should care about that kid across town. So get involved in your schools because if our kids go down the tubes, we go with them. (gentle music) - Engineers build, farmers grow, artists create, but teachers do it all. They build minds, help children grow and create leaders. Make an impact on a child's life. Get into teaching the more you know. - For the latest updates on community media, events, and everything WBCA, you can follow us at www.facebook.com/wbca-radio. - You can learn how to make your radio show a reality. Register for the WBCA radio workshop, now open for enrollment on bnnmedia.org. Get involved and become a member to produce and broadcast your own shows. On Boston Neighborhood Network and WBCA 102.9 FM. - And we're back. Here at WBCA LP 102.9 FM in Boston, we're Boston's community radio station. And you're listening to Black Teachers Matter. I'm the producer and host. You're very own Sharon Eaton Hinton. I'm here this evening and we got a full house in the house or a red wind. And Marlon Solomon missed it all in time. (laughs) That's right, you know I was gonna get you right. - That's fine. - I know it's all good. - You're in there, I know it's all good. It's all good in the head, bro. - I deserve it. - Okay, no, no, no. - Hey, hey, we're talking about streets and you was on them streets, bro. - Yeah, the streets was tough. (laughs) - She was talking to me in my first house. (laughs) - Oh my gosh, so before you got here, I was talking to Ms. Radwin here. Her significant others in here keep me company. And so I was in here talking, we were talking just skimming the top. We were talking about you when you actually came in. So, you know, that was one time kinda. And so I did get a chance to look at your podcasts that had to do with the red lying, which was interesting. I was telling Lauren that I had a crash course did, right? In terms of all that, and she and I, I was talking about you and how you and I had talked about African American TV and that's how I met you upstairs on another level. And she and I, she was with Mimi, Mimi Churchness, who's the president of the Hyde Park Neighborhood Association, had done a preliminary show a couple of months ago. Talking about the streets and squares and squares and streets and the squares that are making the streets who are not from here, we're deciding this is what they wanna do, what's going on in here and how the people who have to park and bicycle and walk and take the bus and drive on these streets are faring so far. And let's get into the fact that before we get into the red lining and the gentrification and the marginalization of the majority people of color in the district of Rosendale, we're gonna focus on Rosendale, although Rosendale, Dorchester, Matapan, all of those are actually involved because it's a city-wide program. Let's talk about what it is like, where did this thing come from and this sort of gets into the red lining thing in all the politics on Marlin. But where did this whole notion come from that somebody figured, see I'm old enough to remember when they had trolleys in the middle of the street in Boston, so I remember and there weren't anywhere near as many cars as they're out there and people trying to run you down and I can't about you. So I remember when this happened before when you had to go in the middle of the street and jump on a trolley and the trolleys were electric. So where does idea come from? Who's the smarty pants in the room that thought this was a good idea to put bus lanes in the middle of the street and then put bike lanes on the sides of the street when the streets were already too thin to begin with. Whose idea was this? - I couldn't tell you, but I do know that they, I mean, the idea behind putting cars and was just basically they were trying to sell cars, and they needed to get rid of the alternative, which like you said was electric, so it was green, right? So it kind of went backwards. It was a solution that didn't pollute the environment well as much, and now we're on a solution that is burning fossil fuels and we haven't had a good snow in Boston in at least five years. - Quiet, quiet, quiet. I'm talking about a good snowing stop. I'm supposed to, quiet, quiet, but you know what I'm saying? It's like I remember when you had electric trolleys and you had more people walking actually and you had less cars, and then you have... I mean, American Legion highway, let's take one of these streets. We could take any one of these streets that have already been flipped around. Siva Street, Columbus Avenue is, well, you know, Huntington Avenue still has trolleys, still has the old trolleys, and so that's been kind of upgraded and then the MBTA has made and the mayor has made certain bus lines free, but I also remember how there was a pushback from the community when a highway was gonna come through the southwest corridor and people push back then. And then I also remember, I'm old enough to remember when we had the elevated train. And so we had the L, it was elevated, and then, you know, they tore that down and it was supposed to have been replaced, but replaced with an underground system and that got replaced by the civil line, which never really did justice to the people in the traffic. And so, you know, so the major problems that we're talking about is how people, the people that are using these services seem to get ignored. So that's a drum roll to Laura right there. It's like, but I'm bummed, okay? So the parts that you're talking about is how the people that are impacted the most in Rosalind do not include it. Talk about that. - Yeah, I'd like to. Thank you so much. You know, having safer streets, having being less car dependent, having streets to be safe for bicyclists, all of those are really noble goals and I'm not going to speak against them. But what's happened is there's not been an analysis of who's getting hurt. And in Rosalindale, and Marlon, that's where Marlon and I bonded over the parking situation in Rosalindale, slowly curbside parking was getting eaten away, you know, bit by bit by different Boston Transportation Department decisions. And when you look at the merchants who were most affected, it was the people of color, the merchants of color and our immigrants were far more affected than white business owners. And what I mean by that is the curbside parking for the Dominican Republic barbershops and the Asian manicure shops and the cheapest cup of coffee in Rosalindale, they lost their curbside parking and it affected their business. And one of the businesses, really wonderful women from Sierra Leone, she's a hair breeder, takes her hours and hours and they put a bus lane in and without any justification, they made the bus line restriction not only from 5A to 9A, but from 9A to 10A. Well, she lost her customers 'cause it takes hours and hours to braid someone's hair and they're people who don't come to her anymore because they can't come early in the morning. So I guess what I'm advocating for is really looking at the impact who's getting the most impact, what's the negative impact and most importantly, how do we ameliorate it and still get our goals? So that's my concern and Marlin and I started our working together over that. - And I know you sent me information and it says, residents who'll be most affected have been essentially ignored in the planning departments engagement process and according to the planning department, participation up until mid-summer had numbered 77%, no, 778 white, 54 Latino with Latinx and 38 African-American and black. That's at the meetings, right? - That is, they use a participation metric but it might as well be. So 82% of the people making the decisions are right. And you know, we've had meetings with the planning department and they're quite right that they've had pop-ups and hot dog nights but in the effort to engage people who are hard to reach and it hasn't worked. And so the coalition's really advocating for better presentation that no decisions should be made until the people who are engaged in the visioning and the decision-making look like the people who are gonna be affected. - I know I read, see this is a cramming, this is a little student, I'm used to doing this. In December 11th, the meeting has been scheduled, the squares and streets meeting for Ross and Dale's been scheduled December 11th and now it's being offered in Spanish and Creole. Does that help the engagement anyway? - I think that may be what's happening in Heights Park. I don't know of an engagement on December 11 in Ross and Dale but you know, it could be happening and I just haven't heard about it. In Ross and Dale, they've had, it was interesting with the languages, they've had a very, very few Spanish-speaking events and I asked if they would have Haitian-speaking Creole and also Vietnamese because so many of our personal service businesses are owned by people who are Vietnamese. And I was told that Ross and Dale didn't hit the threshold and so they couldn't justify offerings in Vietnamese and for someone who works in healthcare like me, that's just shocking, you know, quite a surprise to me. Let's put it that way. But they, so that's- - So can I just have a minute second? - Yeah, please. I need to correct it before anybody changes the channel. So the squares and streets zoning, public meeting was scheduled for Monday, December 2nd. And now it's scheduled for December 11th, that it was from Madipan. - Oh, thank you. - That was from Madipan, okay. Yeah, no. - See, I know. - She like, what? I don't know about this. And then you like, you know, you're dragging him, you're husband here, it's another meeting. He's sitting up here. He's so cool. He's just like, yep, yep. - He's the best. - Yeah, but you know, sharing, what happened to you has happened to all of us. They've had meetings where people have had very little notice. We've had three meetings in one week, which is just for someone to get to three different meetings on three different evenings, that's a tough one. So what happened to you is not unusual. - Can I chip in? - Certainly. - The main thing is, I think like you rightfully said, is that you see, the people who are designing the streets have no connections to the people on the streets. So they design things for what they feel is good for them, or what they understand, and they're well-meaning people. It's not like they're sitting in corners, plotting the end of people's Boston. But what they're doing is that when they come, first of all, even if they did offer different languages, it would just be helpful to the people that already show up anyway, and could probably speak English already. And 'cause the people that come are the people are like the same group, you know what I'm saying? Like it's always the same group of people. Now, the issue is that the people that are working, you know, 60 hours a week, feeding their kids around this time and night, they don't have time to come to these meetings. So one of the questions I always ask them in the beginning of the squares and streets is what's your budget for outreach? Because it doesn't seem, 'cause you know what they say about budget, show me your budget, show you who you are. - Well, and I'll show you what's important. - Right, and that's what, we never got no clear answer on that, but it's very obvious that there isn't a robust, like social media campaign or, you know, how do you reach young people? How do you reach, you know, older citizens of Boston? How do you reach people that are working jobs that, you know, and they have a term, this thing is called unreachable. - So why should we consider, I mean, so I just, you know, I'm a student and this is what I do. I'm looking at the website, city of Boston's website. Upcoming, this is for Ross and Dale. I just, I googled it, not that I'm promoting that ticket to social platform, but squares and streets, Ross and Dale, this is city of Boston, upcoming events. Public meeting regarding the drafts, Ross and Dale's squares and streets small area plan, Wednesday, December 18th, 6 p.m. to 8 p.m. virtual meeting, and you can register. The planning department is hosting a public meeting to present draft recommendations for the Ross and Dale squares and streets, squares, squares, Ross and Dale squares, squares and streets small area plan, anticipated to be released on Thursday, December 12th. And this meeting staff will introduce the draft land use and design framework to guide future development draft recommendations, also include targeted city housing and small business policies to support a thriving neighborhood center. Opportunities to incorporate more public art and cultural activities and strategies to expand the public realm and improve transportation safety. The presentation will be followed by questions and answers. And then they've got a, yeah. - So they dropped this without sharing with my group. - Well, this is news to me. - But that's why we hid. That's why we do the media. - Well, I will tell you what we asked for. We asked for them to hold off until they had reached a more representative group of people having that plan based on the input of 82% of the people being white, 80% being homeowners. That's a tough one. And we asked that they do another survey because that plan is based on a survey that was written at the college reading level. And it was hard for me to finish. And even our, when Consulate Papem was also advocating for a different survey because he agreed that it was just too hard to read. So sharing it got me because I had no idea this was coming. And it's also the holidays. So really doing any kind of organizing to do some thoughtful discussions. That is, I'm pretty surprised. The last thing we asked for in September that we didn't get feedback on was an anti-displacement policy. And I know across the city, there's some real important groups that are pushing pretty hard saying you don't rezone until we have anti-displacement policies in place. - You know, I'm looking at this meeting, right? Uh-oh, this is, interact, this is alive. If you've just tuned in, we're at WBCA LP 102.9 FM in Boston. Let me show you how much we're Boston's community radio station. This is a, this is a black teachers matter. And so while you were talking, I registered for the meeting, right? So I go into registered meeting, Rosendale Square, Squares and Streets, draft plan. And Wednesday, December 18th, 2024 from 6 p.m. 6 to 8 p.m. For any questions, please contact Eileen Michelle. And that goes where virtual. And then it talks about what it is. Spanish interpretation services will be available. What's your name? What is your email? Please help us understand who is coming. Answer these optional questions. Tell us a bit about yourself. Is this your first Squares and Streets meeting? Yes or no? What is your relationship to Rosendale Square? You may choose, you may chose more than one. Oh, the English teacher made just nails on the blackboard. You may chose, you may chose more than one. And the, the choices are, I'm a resident of Rosendale. I'm an employee in Rosendale Square. I'm a business owner in Rosendale Square. I visit Rosendale Square from another neighborhood. None of the above and prefer not to say. Then it says, what is your housing situation? Rent my, rent my home, own my home, living with family or friends. Unhoused prefer not to say. And then what is your race, race, ethnicity, white African-American, black, Latino, Latina, Asian Pacific Islander, Native American, two or more, other prefer not to say. So wait a minute, so when I press, okay, if I press two or more, it won't let me press with the two or more R. That's interesting. And then it says, what is your age? Under 18, 18 and 24, 25 to 29, 30 to 39, 40 to 49, 50 to 59, 60 plus prefer not to say. And then submit, let me submit and see what happens. Unable to save your draft. I don't want to save it, I want to submit it. So now you know what they're asking for. And you guys were talking about the demographics, right? - Right, and so they have asked for it and I'm very pleased to see they've asked for it because that survey, there was no demographics collected in the Rosendell survey, which means we don't know who answered it. What that translates to is that plan that's being released is based heavily on the survey that they fielded, which we don't know who answered it. So the people can live in Rosendell, not live in Rosendell, so I'm glad they listened to us and put demographics in. But we're talking December 12th. How many days is that from Christmas? - The December 12th is when they're going to release the-- - And have the meeting. - Information, but the meeting's the 18th. - Yeah, one week before Christmas. I mean, gosh. - So you think that that's on purpose? I can't say. - Yeah, we got to say that. But I will say that this is just a pattern that has always been repeated. - An evil plan? - Well, I'm just saying it's a pattern. It doesn't mean that they're planted because it means that that's what they do. - So like when I got started with a lot of this work was when they put the Burger King across the street from Boston Prep in Hyde Park. And I remember when they voted for that. - Wait, wait, wait, wait. You got to roll back on that when I was involved in those meetings, but go ahead. - Yeah, but it was like 10 o'clock. And it was like 10 o'clock in the morning when they did the vote for it, right? And like on a Tuesday or Thursday. And the only reason why I saw it is because it was like during the pandemic. So they had YouTube. So they had to like do the meetings that way 'cause people couldn't come 'cause of social distancing. I haven't said that word in a while. But it's just the pattern. And also it doesn't even just stop at that. Remember, we're still talking about, we're talking about access, literacy with using technology, right? They've actually put out programs that as an engineer, like mapping programs that look like AutoCAD and all this other stuff that they use in engineering, right? To help the process. And that's what the issue is. They just not, they're not able to communicate. Like I don't know. Some people can't dance. There's nothing you can do about it. - That's to do with rhythm, though, that would be gone. - Hey, is that-- - Is that Democratic? It's dancing Democratic? - Well, I understand, but communicating is also rhythm. The way I sound, the way I talk, the way I'm communicating, the words I use, they matter. So when I was in the Square Street meeting like maybe three weeks ago and they used the word geolocation, I'm like, come on, calm down with the geolocation, right? And this is just the way they operate. They're not, I don't think they're as capable as they may want to believe they are, but they're not able to communicate to the people that they're trying to, they say they're trying to help. They put up barriers in ways that they don't realize they're putting up the barriers, they're siloed. And this way of talking and treating people, right? In the end of the day, people do not know. So when you come later on and decide that you want to displace people or rents are going up, and this and that, people get all confused and they're not understanding why and they're all upset, well, that's how it works. I remember our first Square Street meeting was late. Remember like December 6th, like they, like when they actually dropped in the beginning, when they dropped the first squares in the streets, like last Christmas, it was only like December 6th, we found out like the day of. - Yeah, it was actually, they had a meeting, a pre-meeting where they invited a select group of people and a lot more people showed up. So it was in January and we started just to herald Marlin's point about displacement, people are going to be displaced, it's the first thing we started asking about. - So it doesn't matter if they say, what was that, Geo, what was the term? - Geolocation. - Geolocation, and it's banyo pafar, it doesn't matter. Okay, it doesn't matter. I was like, again, I'm looking at this website. It's, how have we engaged? This is the Square Street's website. The following section summarized that the engagements that the planning department has completed to date. The activities we facilitated at these events and links to folders of all completed engagement activities. The engagements are ordered top to bottom for most recent, to least recent engagement. The ideas reception, planning department and partner, city of Boston departments held an ideas reception in person at the Rosendale Community Center where the first draft of plan recommendation was presented blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Additionally, to expand outreach and engage with residents who typically do not or cannot attend larger community meetings, the planning department team held a pop-up, the following day in front of the Rosendale Public Library. The team also organized three business walks in the Square, including one focused on hearing from Spanish speaking business owners to hear feedback from business owners on draft recommendations. A summary of over 300 responses to the draft recommendations is listed here. And then visioning sessions and pop-ups, they held two visioning sessions, one held in person at the Roxbury, Roxbury and Jesus, at the Rosendale Community Center and one held virtually using their Mero activity platforms. God, I'll leave those with that is. And then additionally, to expand outreach and engage with residents who typically do not or cannot attend, the planning department team held several visioning pop-ups across Rosendale Square. These locations included the Rosendale branch of the Boston Public Library, a bus stop in front of Healy Field, the Rosendale farmers market team open gym at the Rosendale Community Center, the Sumner School and a hot dog night at the Artsdale BHA. So, and then the small business focus group, they claim they had that, hosted a focus group to hear directly from business owners about their experiences, temp transportation, public realm. That was a meeting supposedly around Rosendale Square where they did a walking tour of the commercial streets and talked to people. And zoning workshop took place at the Rosendale Community Center. They claim, no, I don't know how many days from this. - Well, you know, Sharon, Sharon, hold up, hold up, hold up, we gotta give you no. Engagement report out meeting an urban design survey. This is up your alley, Marlon. Urban design, and they claim that they did all of this stuff. And I heard you, in Spanish language squares and streets meeting, what was this meeting about? Hybrid in person and virtual meeting held at the Menino Center at Artsdale BHA was held in Spanish and housing and small business workshop. So they're ticking the boxes. I heard you say that, Marlon. - Yeah, they're ticking the boxes. And the truth is when they pop up, they're just gonna pop up with geolocation. So it doesn't matter where, and they're gonna, like you said, in Spanish, buff up, or, right? And let me tell you how we engaged in high parks. First of all, let me just say the first thing. If you wanna engage, you have to actually live in the community. There's no way to fake it. There's no way to come around who wants to read time with pop-ups and, you know, listening sessions and all these other things, it's not possible. Like we engaged in high park 'cause our community being new, we needed it. I wanna send a shout out to all the crew in high park community in for the part of high park and high park neighborhood association at CDC. Anyway, we literally, I took my drone up, took great pictures. We actually did actual real visuals. So instead for using words, you know, S1, S2, and some generic pictures that they pulled off the internet, I took real live pictures of the locations and then we did little like drawings on them so you could actually see what they're proposing and what it actually looks like. Not only that, we've had multiple sessions with the mayor and everybody else coming. Not only that, we actually made, we had an architect come in and he put like the layouts, like prints of the whole parts of Clearly Square and Logan Square. And then we actually got wooden models made so you could actually physically touch it and push it around, like Legos, right? Anybody can understand Legos, right? But apparently the people that are paid with our tax dollars to put forward these plans, obviously have never come across in Legos. And we've asked them numerous times to communicate better and but you know what, when you have no budget to put the time and effort in, that's what happens. - Can I just remark on that? It's a great list and you know, anybody would go boy, they really were out there and they've asked us to acknowledge and we have it meetings acknowledged the number and the variations of the meetings they've held. We've gone to those meetings. So those library pop-ups, one or two people attended. I was at the Spanish Archdale meeting, the hybrid meeting, seven people were there. - What about the Haidang thing? - Well, that brings up an interesting point and that is it was for youth but they didn't let us know so we couldn't send any youth who were affiliated with the coalition or any other youth we know. Some of these things were held without even letting us know and they were in compliance with the public meeting law, I checked that out, but they didn't let people know so they could attend and have their voices heard. So although there was a various and some of those events did have a fair number of people, don't get me wrong, those big meetings had a fair number of people. - What's a fair number of people? - I'd say 50. The thing is we weren't allowed to have a conversation. So if we-- - Wait, wait, wait, wait. What do you mean? They just did a presentation and no questions and answers and they left? - You couldn't ask a question in the group so we couldn't hear what each one another were saying. You had to ask the question of the speaker. Sort of privately and if one or two people wanted to tag along great, but we wanted a town hall. So we could talk to one another. And one of those Spanish speaking business owner meetings was arranged by the coalition, which we could use a little credit for that. So-- - Why should you get credit for that? Myles and him did talking about budget, they'd have to pay you. - Right. - I don't mind being-- - Yeah. - I know, I think it's ticking the box. The 300 responses to a survey, they were really understood. They got a lot of survey responses from Ross and Jill, but we don't know who they were. - Okay, so let's talk about this survey. I'm looking at this website, right? - Yeah. - That survey. - So it says business canvassing. The Squares and Streets Community Survey was launched on February 14th and remained open until March 29th. The results of the survey will be used to inform subsequent phases of engagement and to gauge community preferences early on in the process. So they said they spent a day canvassing businesses and cultural institutions in the planning area, and then they received 21 responses to the Business and Cultural Space Survey that each business received and 11 business owner comments from members of the Ross and Dale coalition. That's you guys, right? - That's us. So that 21, if you look at that database, that's their database to help them make decisions about who they're gonna have as businesses in the square. No personal service businesses. Do you know who owns the personal service businesses in our community? Again, people of color, immigrants. They're not in that 21. I've been told there are over 200 businesses in Ross and Dale Square. 21 is just about 10%, and that's the database they're operating on, or at least the public facing one. They're telling us about. - So I think they've been listening to you and pushing back. I'm still reading their website. And I love using people's own words against them, I mean, or for them, whatever. So in one of these, okay, it says it is important that participants in the Ross and Dale Square, Square's and Street's planning process of representative of the neighborhood and inclusive of groups who historically have not been engaged in planning processes. That's the scenario you're posed, right? But hold on. So their response or their set up is, traditional meetings with pre-registration tend to attract fewer participants from low income and BIPOC communities to address the staff have intentionally conducted numerous pop-ups, coffee hours and focus groups at various times of day and days of the week weekend to engage more diverse groups as these pop-up events are designed to meet people at locations they are already visiting. Demographic information is not collected as these interactions are typically shorter and staff aim to maximize time spent engaging with participants rather than filling out a sign and sheet. - Your words, your response? - My response is that they, and I said this in meetings to the planning department, they should really take a leaf from public health. Public health professionals figure out a way to get demographics in a very fast way. I've done it myself. My other response is you don't do one pop-up. You know, one of our leaders in the Latino community said to them, you know, you can't swing by me with a leaflet when I'm at a hot dog or at a party or walk into the library going to pick up my kid and expect me to have meaningful dialogue. You know, the pop-ups don't work and not many people came to them anyway and I know that from attending them myself. So I think it's a noble endeavor. As someone who's done health disparities research, I know how hard it is to reach people. And we have offered advice and again, you know, we ran the 11, I did in-depth interviews with 11 owners who were in the coalition. I just finished fielding a simple survey that I was gonna give to them from business owners in the coalition. And my response is that you can't just tick off processes. You have to look at outcomes. - I'm gonna have to talk to your men right here. You seem like you're doing a lot of work for free. - No, it's true. - And well, all of us are serious. - All of us, that's why I probably had such a big engagement 'cause there's a group of people that are working tirelessly, you know, to make things better. But I wanted to actually talk a little bit about this, you know, about the pop-ups and stuff a little bit because see, this is a culture thing. This is a cultural diversity issue. And why is it like that? Because guess what? Some people don't have seasoning in their food. - Yep. - And if you don't have seasoning in your food, you invite people over with hot dogs. - You must be hungry. You talk about hot dogs. (laughing) - No, no, no. - Hot dogs, they don't wanna take my hot dog. What I'm saying, if you're gonna rise and tell me, maybe you start off with some empanadas or some tacos. That's what would have probably brought the people that you want out there. You don't bring in Spanish-speaking folks and black folks in with hot dogs. We don't want hot dogs. Sorry. So it's very simple. You say how simple I made it sound? It's not very complicated, but it's beyond all the millions that are being spent on, well, I don't know if it's millions, but a lot being spent on engagement and pop-ups and all these things that are not culturally in tune with the community. - Okay, so hold up. Hold that thought now. If you've just tuned in. (laughing) - About to go off, y'all, y'all, y'all. - Stop me. - You're tuned in WBCA LP 102.9 FM in Boston. Boston's Community Radio Station, you are listening to Black Teachers Matter. - I am so glad. - And you are also listening to Lauren Radwin and Marlon Solomon. And I wanna read, you know that somebody in the city is listening to you guys, and I'll tell you why. I'm reading something on the community vision statements that says, "The original statement, "Rosendale Square will support and grow "a thriving local business environment "with a variety of small businesses "that foster community gathering spaces "and intergenerational interactions. "The revised statement is, "Rosendale Square will support a local business environment "with a variety of small businesses "that foster community gathering spaces "and serve a variety of day-to-day needs "for the entire community "with displacement protections for existing small businesses. "And the arts and culture part, "which you're talking about, the flavor, "you know the disease, right? "The original statement was, "Rosendale Square will provide a cultural ecosystem "that supports small and emerging arts "and culture establishments and entrepreneurs "that integrate arts including performing arts, "visual arts, or live music into the public realm. "The revised statement, "Rosendale Square will support existing "in new neighborhood cultural traditions "that activate public space "and partner with local arts and culture establishments "that integrate arts, "including performing arts, visual arts, or live music "into the public life of the square." Somebody's listening, do you think? - Probably, but let me talk about those active spaces for a moment, so they want to activate a street that has entirely either immigrant, black, or Asian-owned businesses. The whole street and popular street. They want to close the street to activate it as a public space. It's right next to a park. So I think we've got a pretty active space as it is. Those owners were not told that this was going to be the plan. So they weren't asked is it going to help your business? Is it going to hurt your business? Is it going to be something you want? Is it something you not want? It was just put on paper as part of a recommendation. And so activating spaces has many meanings, and part of it can be what are you taking away. They're activating spaces so that a white-owned coffee shop will have its own section for cafe, whereas the coffee shop has more affordable coffee or the Latinx-owned snack bar is not getting an activated space for their business. So if I sound a little hot, she said hot, if I sound a little hot, go ahead. Yeah, it's because these words have been used against us. And think about the words that you just read, Sharon. What reading level do you think they're at? Do you think it translates well to Creole or to Vietnamese? That what you just read me was a very complicated, single sentence, I believe. No, it wasn't that complicated, come on now. I think it's cool level, I'm a high school teacher. I think I would argue with you because of, but we don't have to, we can analyze it. I can tell you, we analyzed the questions on that recommendation survey, and they were at a junior college, junior, a junior in college reading level. Let me tell you something, if you think, 'cause I'm a college professor too, that is not junior college. Some of it is because of the language. And when you're talking about including and being inclusive, your palin put it from say, and I'm a little too, so I'm pretty trilingual. However, there are words that don't translate, and there are sentiments that don't translate, and you do have to have a cultural context to this, and whatever it is that's devised has to take into who you're including, who you're eliminating, and how you're doing that. And you know there's an engineer. I mean, if you're designing spaces, are people who have wheelchairs included in the size of the door, in terms of steps and stuff like that. And it goes the same thing with language, and within your right, with written design and written curriculums. However, and we've got like, 12 minutes, no, we don't even have 12 minutes, we've got like seven minutes, okay. So here's the things that I observed from interacting with you, Ms. Redman, and Mr. Salomon. Here's what I noticed about the engagement, the level of engagement in different communities, because I've worked on people's campaigns. There are certain neighborhoods, they're more politically active, and the fact that you guys are advocating for Ross and Dale, the mayor lives in Ross and Dale, and they're voting booths, whoops, they're voting booths in Ross and Dale where they're heavily trafficked, right? And so, just the fact that you're here, I don't know if that same level of engagement is happening. In Man of Pan, where you have 70% of the population is immigrant and speaks another language. I don't know if this is still happening in Roxbury, which has had a master plan oversight committee forever, because of the level of engagement that happened around Nubian Square, Dudley Square, Dudley Station, the whole gentrification that you know, gone from basically, and Marlon knows this, 'cause he did a presentation at, I think it was the African meeting house or something, but I know I read about it, right? No, a friend of mine, my cousin, let me think, my cousin, my cousin was at Thanksgiving table talking about the presentation that you did in Red Lightning, Marlon. So, yeah, Boston is small, and so he was like amazed, and he says, you probably know I'm sharing, you know everybody, and I was like, I don't know if I know him, and then he said, your name is, oh, I do know him, he said, right? But, you know, Back Bay and Beacon Hill used to be all black, because the legislators wanted their slaves next to them. Now, if you, and I've lived in Boston long enough to see how this city, and the people in this city, have been pushed around. And Boston is like sort of like a small representation of New York, when you have these little conclaves, these little communities, they're little Italy. They're villages, they're villages. Well, tribes, I'd say tribes more, but yeah. And then, you know, developers come in, and they do what they're doing. So, policy, and governmental policy, and engineering, and all this stuff comes into play. And so, we'll have to bring, you know, Marlon back to talk about redlining, and how people are getting pushed around, and how it's not to them. - Can I say one thing to that between? - Hold on, hold on, here's what I want you to do. We've got, it's 651, we're getting out of here, in four minutes. So, in those four minutes, if we can split it between the two of you, and nail what the people who are listening and viewing this need to hear, and the next steps that they can do. So, this is public radio, so we can't see, you must do, and you have to call. Say, well, if you'd like more information, you can go to this, that's what I need you guys to do, okay? Got you, Marlon first, go ahead. - All right, well, the first thing I want to say is that this work that we're doing, it's not just for us in Hyde Park, or in Rosendale, I'm just reached out, got reached out to by a group in Fields Corner, that is trying to advocate for there, and understand what's going on, and give me to explain learn things. So, hey, you can reach out to the African American Academy, or on Instagram, if you want more information. But what I would say is that people have lost in the, this is not the beginning, this is a pattern. About every 60 years or so, there's a mass displacement. It's gonna take us a long time to get close to any kind of gaps that we have, if we can't basically just lay a foundation. And in the next 10 to 15 years, 'cause we, as a builder, I don't think about, like, I'm building for today, or for tomorrow, even for five years. When I build, I'm building for 50 years, 100 years. I'm telling you all, in the next 10, 15 years, write it down, anybody who sells you none is a liar. There are gonna be thousands of people of color displaced and Boston. So, if you don't know, now you know. And the place in that, one thing I wanted to talk about, about the businesses in Rosendale, right? They have patrons, those patrons live right down the street down in Washington, it's about 80% non-white, all right? When they build what they wanna build, the property values, they're gonna go up, and those people are gonna be pushed out. And it doesn't matter whether you have a business there, if the customers that come and cut their hair are no longer there. So, it's not just the, the square. The square is the area of influence of the square, and how the square is funded by people who are close by, who need their hair cut, and their lats in, and they go there. That is how it's done. So, all this, you know, we're focusing on a lot of stuff, and not looking at how we're all interrelated. And I just want us to know that the writing is on the wall. Everybody, everybody, everybody, I say this, everybody says it's already happening, it's already happening. Yeah, but we don't have to sit there and let them kick us out of another location. They don't give us any places to relocate to, they don't tell us there are things that can't be done. If you learn the history of Boston, you'll know what was told and all the lies that we're told and what's next. You'll know this long and in a minute, right? Right, and I'll let you go. And I'll let you go. So, Maureen, thank you very much. Well, no, I am so glad you said what you said, and it is really important to reach out, to let people know that you don't think this is acceptable. Sharon, I wish I had all the emails, but let me give you just one or two, write to our counselor at large, Julia Mahia, J-U-L-I-A. You can write to, you may write to, you can write to, you're not trying to violate any FDC things, you can write to it. You may, yes, there you go. Yeah, you may wish to write to our counselor at large, who's following this pretty closely. She's a real one, she's a real one. She's the deal, and her name is Julia.Mihia, M-E-J-I-A at Boston.gov. Let her know that you don't want to see Rossendale rezoned, Hyde Park rezoned, Dorchester rezoned, unless there are anti-displacement policies codified and in place. Okay, give me one quick, real quick, 10 seconds. Okay, and then you can write to me. (mumbles) Oh, you may, I'm sorry. If you want to, like I did a new thing. This is long, so I'm gonna say it twice. It's one word, Rossendale coalition cord, so it's R-O-S-L-I-N-D-A-L-E. C-O-A-L-I-T-I-O-N-C-O-R-D at gmail.com. Okay, so they can rewind this if they want to. Right. (mumbles) You may rewind it. You may rewind it. You may rewind it. You may rewind it. If you want to rewind it. If you're doing Tuesday, that's the work that we're doing, you may, we may not, we may not support a non-profit that I run, but we may not. Okay, so we gotta go. Gotta go. And love both of you. Lauren, we're happy. Thank you, Sharon. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Sharon. - Thank you, Sharon. - Rowan Solomon. And we thank you so much for being here. You are listening to WBCA LP 102.9 FM in Boston. We're Boston's community radio station. And this is Black Teachers Matter. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)