One of the most talented drummers in the game, Jonathan Mover has played with legendary artists such as Alice Cooper, Aretha Franklin, Joe Satriani, Steve Vai, Fuel, Saigon Kick, and more. He tells us about spending time in the USSR in the '90's, working with these huge stars of music, and his band ProgJect!
Dope Nostalgia
Episode 220 - Jonathan Mover
[Music] Open up that crystal Pepsi and get comfortable. [Music] This is Dopeness Up. [Music] Welcome to another episode of Dopeness Stalja. This is episode 220 and I'm your host Naomi. When I was starting to research for this episode, I wanted to do one about a hard rock band from the 90s called Saigon Kick. They had a big, ballad hit back then called Love Is On The Way. So I ended up getting responses from two of the members of Saigon Kick, and today we're going to talk to drummer Jonathan Mover. But then I learned so much more about his career and all the things he's done. So he joined Saigon Kick much later and tours with them. Okay, but he's also worked with so many other people, including Alice Cooper. I'm going to tell you a little bit more about Jonathan's career, but first, we have some news about one of our past guests. Here we go with some Dopeness Stalja news. [Music] Hot off the presses, adjust those rabbit ears. You got that antenna pulled up? It's time for some Dopeness Stalja news. [Music] Our special guest on episode 64 is one of my favorite female artists of the 90s, Tara Kemp. Now, she has put out new music finally and just in time for the holidays, not only one, but two brand new singles for Christmas. First one's called This Christmas, second one Christmas time. If you go straight to her Instagram page at Tara Kemp official, you'll be able to get those links to go check out her brand new music. So please, I encourage you to go check it out. It's awesome. We love Tara. [Music] Please bear in mind that Wikipedia is not to be taken as actual 100% fact. Any donkey could edit it at any time. If I'm reading you the artist bio, that stuff is the real truth. Jonathan Mover, a.k.a. Mover, is an American drummer. He is a former member of the band's Marillion and GTR. Mover was raised in the Boston area and began playing drums at age 13. Primarily self-taught, he studied early on with Don Carr and briefly attended Berkeley College of Music until seeking out private study with Gary Chaffey before moving to London. Shortly after moving to London, Mover joined the neo-prog band Marillion in September 1983. He auditioned and got the role on the Wednesday, flew to Germany on the Thursday, and, without rehearsals, performed on Friday with the band. They then headed straight to Rockfield Studios in Wales to write and record material for their second studio album, "Pugazi." Having become the band's fourth drummer since the beginning of the year, within a month, he had left the band due to a conflict with their lead singer Fish. Mover received a writing credit for the single "Punch and Judy." After leaving Marillion, Mover teamed up with Steve Hackett, formerly of Genesis, and Steve Howe, formerly of Yes, to start the supergroup known as GTR. The trio then recruited lead singer Max Bacon and bassist Phil Spalding. After one successful record and tour, Hackett quit the band, followed by Mover, since his allegiance was to Hackett. Not long after, having played a one-off gig with Steve Howe and Joe Satryani, Mover accepted the offer to continue work with Satryani on several records and tours and made the move back to the USA after nine years in London settling in New York City. He lived part-time in Moscow during the four-year period of 1989 to 1993, producing, recording, and performing with a variety of Russian artists. Although Mover works primarily in the studio, he tours with Saigon Kick regularly and with the tubes, replacing their drummer Prairie Prince when Prince is busy touring with Todd Rungrid. He toured with Alice Cooper on the Trash World Tour. In June 2012, on two days notice, Mover replaced Alice Cooper's injured drummer, reuniting with Cooper for his US Canadian summer tour with Iron Maiden, and Cooper's headline tour of Europe. To add to his biography, I also found a great article on drummerworld.com that tells us that Jonathan is a world-renowned professional drummer and percussionist who has recorded and/or performed with a variety of artists, including Aretha Franklin, Alice Cooper, the tubes, Shakira, Fuel, Everlast, Frank, Gumbale, Joe Satryani, and Mick Jagger. Having appeared on well over 300 recordings, Jonathan now adds the title of editor-in-chief, of Drumhead, making his career in music about his diverse as they come. Jonathan also has production and/or engineering credits with Shakira, Fuel, and Celine Dion, Composition and/or arrangement credits with Marillion, GTR, and Joe Satryani, and has released two critically acclaimed solo projects known as Einstein 1 and Einstein 2. Adding to this range of musical activities, Jonathan also owns and operates one of Manhattan's finest state-of-the-art recording studios, Skyline Studios NYC. It's a pleasure to have Jonathan on the show today, guys. Welcome, Jonathan Mover to Joe Nostalgia. Welcome, Jonathan. How are you? I'm good. Thank you. I see you've got my local boys on your T-shirt extreme. I just saw them on Thursday they played here in my city in Edmonton, Canada. Oh, cool. Yeah, Boston guys. That's where I grew up. Oh, yeah. I've loved them since back in 1992. Yeah, they were quite a band. Even before they got signed, they were one of those bands in Boston that everybody knew was on their way. I didn't get to see them much when I was a kid because I moved to London right after high school, but I remember hearing a lot about them. Yeah, I mean, very, very talented guys. Nuno was quite the force to be reckoned with. That's true. Well, if you were in London, did you happen to be there when they did the Freddie Mercury tribute? Yes, that was 86 or seven. Well, it was basically like after Freddie had passed, they've had a big huge concert for. Right. I remember. But I think it was in '92 when it happened. Maybe '93. Okay. I mean, I mean, I was there for live aid. But I left London in the summer of '89 and moved back to the States and went down to New York. So no, I mean, whether or not I was in London at the time, I didn't see the show. But I've seen the videos and everything on YouTube. And yeah, great stuff. Oh, yeah, it was very monumental. I'll never forget that. I had that whole concert on VHS. Yeah. When I was recording the GTR record, which was, I don't remember the exact dates, but we were in townhouse studios in Shepherd's Bush, London for almost a year, you know, as one of those back when budgets were huge and people could relax and do whatever they want. But we were in the studio for about a year at the same time that Queen was there. And between the two of us, we had taken over two and sometimes three of the studios that were in the building. And I had many, many, many months of hanging out with those guys and Freddie was a treasure. I mean, all four of them were incredibly nice, very, very smart, a lot of fun to hang out with, very respectful and yeah, good times. I was blessed to have been able to meet them all. That is incredible. How many people can say that? Yeah, true. Where are you based out of nowadays, Jonathan? Los Angeles. I came out here just a year or two before COVID. It's funny how everything is, you know, pre-imposed COVID. That's our timetable now. Yeah, I moved my recording studio, which I had in New York for almost 20 years out here and merged with another company. And that was my reason for coming west. And not sure if I'm going to stay. You know, there are some things I like about it. Some things I don't. But I'm out here now coming up on, I think, almost seven years. Yeah. Well, it sounds like you've had the opportunity to live in a bunch of different places in the world, which is very cool. Yeah, no complaints. I mean, I grew up close to Boston, so, you know, fair enough to say Boston. And then I moved to London after high school. And then after almost a decade in London, I moved to New York City. And I was there for 27 years. And now out in LA. But my next move, wherever it's going to be, is not going to be a major city. I'm done with the cities. Yeah. I mean, I'll be close enough to an international airport, but I like nature. I like, you know, I like animals and trees and, you know, listening to birds in the morning. So we'll see. I'm just starting to investigate different options. And we'll see. Yeah. Oh, that would be beautiful. Sure. We aren't kidding. There are you. I'm in Edmonton, which is West Coast, kind of not on the coast because I'm still East of the Rockies. Right. But you're between Vancouver and Saskatchewan and all of that. Yes. That's right. Right there. Yeah. Lucky. I mean, I'm sure we'll get to it. But I was lucky enough to play with two artists that did quite a few shows in Canada, Alice Cooper and Joe Satriani. So I'm familiar with a lot of Canadian cities that your average rocker probably isn't. Yeah, we went everywhere. So yeah, it's great. I enjoy playing in Canada quite a bit. Yeah, you played with Alice Cooper for quite a while, didn't you? Well, if you look at the span of years, yes, but I only get called by Alice to rescue him when he's in trouble. If they have a problem, you know, they give me a call and I jump in until they resolve the problem, which is it's an interesting relationship because I love the gig. I'm a big fan of his music and grew up really, you know, into Alice Cooper right up and through. Walking to my nightmare, which I saw the tour when I was a kid and then like, you know, flushed the fashion and everything. So whenever I do get the chance to play with him, I enjoy it. I also love playing golf with the guy because it's like the greatest lesson of a lifetime. He's an amazing scratch golfer. And he's also an incredibly nice guy and very, very intelligent. So hanging with Alice is great. But one of my biggest, you know, the biggest drag about it is I never get called to, you know, join the band, do a month of rehearsals, learn the material, you know, play with the material, you know, make it, form it into something. I always get called while they're in the middle of something and I jump right on stage with them and just play the gig. And I love that challenge. But I think the last time I was out with them, which was like 10 years ago, 2012, 2013, I remember saying to Alice, you know, the next time you call me, you know, give me a chance to hang out and, you know, work this thing up from scratch. But yeah, he's a blast. I love every minute of hanging with the guy. Oh, he's such a class act. I was just watching the other day some clips from Wayne's world and we always love that scene where he's in Millie Walkay. And, you know, I had left right before they did that. It was, yeah, I had to make a decision if I was going to go backwards, Satriani, in 1990, who I had been with for four years prior or three years prior. And Joe was looking at like another full year on the road for flying in a blue dream, which we had done some stuff in the studio for that, like the year before in '89. And Alice had made like another two or three months to go on what they were doing. And so, you know, for career and financial reasons, I finished up the period that I was doing with Alice and instead of staying on, went back to Joe, which was great. No complaints, no regrets. But the next thing that they did was Wayne's world. So I missed that opportunity. But hey, you know, that's the way it goes. Well, the classic scene, though, I wonder if he still has to say it that way when he plays in Wisconsin. Right. I don't know. He's a trip though. He really is great. So that kind of takes you back right to the beginning of the '90s when you mentioned with Joe Satriani. So is that pretty basically where it started in 1990 for you? That's what you were doing at the time. 1990 was a combination of, you'll forgive me if I'm off by a few months here and there, but I had... Alice was 89 into 90. Yeah, because I was in the Soviet Union with a South African band touring and breaking all sorts of ground that nobody had done before by way of their connections, not mine. Anton Figg, the South African drummer that was on the Letterman show for decades, was the drummer in the band and he couldn't leave Letterman to do this tour. So I got the gig. When I got back from that, which was in the fall of '89, I had missed quite a few Cooper calls from management saying, you know, you've been recommended to us by several people. We need somebody to help us. We're about to start a world tour and don't have a drummer. So Alice was, I want to say, October of '89 through January of '90 and then I was right back in with Joe for quite a bit of all of '90 doing the flying in a blue dream tour and I don't remember and I guess we'll get to it either way because it was a big part of the '90s for me. I don't remember if it was later in '90. No, it couldn't have been. It was '91 that I started working and touring with Aretha Franklin. So the beginning of the '90s was, and you look surprised. So that's something you didn't know about me. No. So the beginning of the '90s was January of '90, finishing up with Alice, jumping out with Joe and then most of the rest of the '90s, unless I was home in New York on a break and doing sessions or something, was mostly Joe that led later on into Aretha. Yeah. But I started with Joe, I'm sorry. What an incredible start to that decade. Yeah, it was great. I mean, I started with Joe in '87, but yeah, the beginning of the '90s was Alice into Joe. Yeah. Now, just to rewind when you're talking about playing in the USSR, I remember there was at Moscow Peace Music Festival around that time too and I think that's one of the few opportunities for an American artist to go over and play in Russia at the time. So what were some of the experiences that were surprising to you or just completely wild while you were in the USSR? We could do a 10-part segment on this because it was truly one of the greatest, greatest times of my life. Musically, culturally, spiritually, everything. What I got out of that band and that tour, which actually interesting that you just, now I'm realizing how much I did do in the '90s because while I was in the Soviet Union, which was most of the summer of '89, so, okay, the Beach Boys. Do you remember the song "Sailon Sailor?" Yes. Okay. So the lead singer, and I believe co-writer of that song, is Blondie Chaplin, who later went on to work with the Rolling Stones for quite some time, Keith on his own. And now I believe he's with Brian Wilson. He's the main singer with them. So Blondie was the lead singer and the guitar player in the composer for the South African band that I went over there with called "Scolly." Scolly, S-K-O-L-L-I-E, is a South African upper-cons term for like a rebel, a ruffian. So he had this amazing band with Anton Figg. Figg couldn't do the tour because he couldn't leave Letterman. And the guys in Scolly, Anton included, had grown up with a very, very wealthy South African businessman, who was the person that was at the time responsible for bringing in international things, whether it was musicians and tours, art exhibits, international hotels, cuisine, all sorts of things. So he had already done a few shows in the Soviet Union. I don't think he was involved with, wasn't that the Russian monsters of rock? Isn't that what it was called or something like that? The Moscow Music Peace Festival was put together basically by Doc McKee. So it was like his artists like Bon Jovi, Motley Cruz, Kid Row, the scorpions. I think over there they called it the monsters of rock. Oh, okay. Because it was done I think in conjunction with Stoss Nomin, who was one of the big Russian guys at the time who ran the music industry and I recorded in his studio a few times. But anyway, yeah, that I think happened in '88. And so the year after that, this South African guy, Brian, wanted to break ground all over the Soviet Union. So he put together a dual tour with us. And do you remember Susie Quattro? Yes. Yeah. So Susie was a massive, massive star in the Soviet Union. She was like the Bruce Springsteen of the Soviet Union. You believe me? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Leta Tuscadero. So Susie was the headline. And because Brian had grown up with the guy from Scali, he offered them the tour to open up for Susie. And we did the Baltics, the Ukraine, Russia, Armenia, Georgia. I mean, we went everywhere and played shows that nobody had gone to before just so they could break ground and kind of test out what opportunities were over there. So that was my experience. While I was there, I met a lot of people and I ended up going into business with a couple of guys in Moscow. And for about five years, I lived part-time in Moscow going back and forth from New York to Moscow, had my own apartment. And I was producing and playing drums on records and working with bands and artists. And so that was another thing that I did for between '89. And I think I want to say April of '94 may have been the last time that I was over there working with those guys at that company. So that's what was happening. And so my time in the Soviet Union was really incredible. Not only did I love the music that I was playing with this band, Skali, and hanging out with Blondie Chaplin because it was quite a learning experience for me. But you know, being able to go all over the Soviet Union when nobody else could. I mean, you know, Motley Crue went over and played one show in Moscow and that's all they could do. We had stamps in our passport that allowed us to go everywhere. So we got to meet people and see things and experience things. You know, we had dinners with like the, you know, at the time the president of Georgia and we met, you know, all of these dignitaries from Armenia and Azerbaijan. And it was really something. So yeah, it was really quite a once in a lifetime experience that I feel very, very lucky that I was able to get in on. And yeah, it was, it was treasured for sure. Yeah, what a blessing to have, you know, had those stories to experience. And to be there when the Iron Curtain fell too, right? I, I, one of my trips was in April of 92, I want to say, and I landed at the airport the day that the big coup happened when the second Russian Revolution happened. And so, you know, my, I was at the airport, the military was there, everything was chaos. My friends picked me up from the airport and were, you know, going to, you know, hustle me to my apartment because we didn't know what was going to happen. And I was like, fuck that. I'm sorry. You can swear it's fine. I was like, fuck that. We got to go to Red Square. And so we went to Red Square and got into the middle of a hundred thousand people that were revolting tanks and turrets and machine guns, pointed out us and everybody, barricades everywhere. And I was just there with my camera taking pictures of all of it and hanging out and saying, if I get through this, this is going to be a story to tell. I was also in, I'm trying to remember the exact dates, but it was, I don't remember if it was, yeah, it was also in '92. I think when the Nagorno-Karabakh War broke out in Armenia and Azerbaijan, I was luckily or unluckily visiting a girl that I had met and had flown over to Iaravan. And we took a little drive in a holiday to go out and about. And that's when that war broke out and I was stuck there. No heat, no electricity, no telephones, no nothing for about ten or twelve days. Oh, wow. We even had her uncle, like trying to get in touch with people that were going to try to smuggle me into Turkey or Iraq, just, you know, if I couldn't get out. I mean, it's crazy stuff, but, you know, you're young and stupid and adventurous, so I did it. But I can sit here today and laugh and talk about it. It was a bit harrowing at the time, but it was really quite an experience. Oh, it's like, where do I even go after that? That was incredible. Aretha, exactly. What an opportunity that was. What experiences did you have working with Aretha Franklin? Man, it was also an amazing all-round experience. You know, musically, of course, I mean, come on, Aretha Franklin, every song was just, I was on stage with her every night and I'm an atheist, but I was looking up at the stars in the top of the venue or whatever and saying, "Oh, my God, how did I get here? This is just incredible." GTR, back in '85, '86, we've assigned to Arista. So, you know, the people at Arista were so familiar with me. I was living in New York at the time and it was a really beautiful spring day of Friday. I want to say in late April or early May, I was out on my Harley just enjoying them, you know, the nice weather. I came home and my phone machine was flashing. This is before cell phones. And so, you know, I pressed, "Listen." And there was a guy from Arista Records saying, "We're trying to get in touch with Jonathan Mover. Are you available to cite Rita Show this evening in Boston with Aretha Franklin?" So, you know, at first, I thought maybe it was a joke. Why are they calling me? But then I called up Arista and this guy picked up the phone and I said, "I think you're mistaking me with Jonathan Moffatt." A lot of people do. Jonathan Moffatt is the black R&B drummer that plays with Madonna and the Jacksons and George Michael on the white, you know, long-haired nose ring rock and roller. And he said, "No, we know who you are. Aretha is in trouble." She called Clyde. Clyde said, "Call you. Can you do it?" So I grabbed my stick bag. I jumped on a flight, went right to Boston. I did not have a chance to even meet her before the show. I got the book of charts, had a quick look, played the gig, which was amazing. In the middle of the gig, she turned around and she pulled the classic, "Give the drummer some. Let me take a drum solo." And at the end of the drum solo, she said, "I'd like to introduce you to my drummer, but I have no idea who he is." But give him a hand. And after the show, I walked up to her and I said, "Miss Franklin, could I take a photo with you to commemorate this?" Because if I don't ever play drums again for the rest of my life, my career is complete. This is a dream come true. So she took a photo and she said, "You know, I really enjoyed your playing. Can I call you again if I need you?" And I thought she was just being nice. And I said, "Absolutely." And then I split. And so like three weeks went by. I never expected to hear from them again. And then her tour manager called me up and said, "The show that you played was the last show of that leg. Aretha, enjoy your playing. If you'd like to continue, we'd like to have you." And so I did for like another four years. No way. That's incredible. Yeah, it was really something. Yeah, it was great. Where all did you get to tour around just the US or internationally? No, because if anybody knows anything about Aretha, she does not fly. She does not even take it. Well, she didn't. She's not with us anymore. But she wouldn't fly. She wouldn't take a train. She wouldn't even take a boat. And so me and my mouth, which sometimes gets me in trouble, but it also opens up a lot of doors, you know, I'm on the bus one day with the guys and the girls. And, you know, I was the new guy in the band. So I was a bit of a pin cushion, if you know what I mean. And so I happened to say to a couple of the guys one day, like, you know, because rumor, which was true, Aretha had some IRS problems because of the multiple ex-husband's that had handled her affairs. I'm not saying anything that's not public. And she lost a lot of money and unfortunately ended up holding the ball. So at one point as a way to get her out of her, some of her debt, she got offered an extraordinary gig in Vegas at Caesar for like 10 shows. And I remember they were talking about it. It was five shows on, two days off, five shows on. And it was going to pay her enough money to wipe out her IRS debt. And she turned it down. And so I was just wondering, like, are you kidding me? Like, what? So somebody mentioned about, she won't travel long distances. And I said, really, why? And everybody on the bus, oh, no, no, no. You don't talk about that. Nobody knows. You don't ask blah, blah, blah. So I'm sitting on the bus. I couldn't read that comes on the bus. And she sits down right next to me and says, you know, so Jonathan, you're enjoying the gig, blah, blah, blah. And who else have you played with? And we got to talking. I said, you know, if you don't mind me asking, how come you won't travel? Why won't you fly? Did you have a bad flight one day? And everybody on the bus was, they turned white, and I was only white behind the bus. And it was like, time froze. And she just very matter-of-factly said to me in front of everybody else, I had a bad dream, you know, years ago that if I traveled too far away from home, something bad was going to happen to me. So I don't go there. So to answer your question, it was a big kind of a circle between the Hampton Virginia area for the jazz festival across the Chicago, up to the Detroit area, all the way across to Boston, New York, Philly, Washington, everything in between. But that was pretty much it all the time. She never went any further than that. And unfortunately, because I know that the whole world wanted to see her. She had offers for like, you know, several weeks or a month at the Royal Albert Hall, which would have sold out the day tickets went on sale. She wouldn't, I mean, I even said to her, it's a joke one day, you know, just pop a few Xanax and go to sleep, you know, if you, if you're that afraid. But yeah, so, so I was playing a lot of the same places over and over, but every night was a gift with her. She was amazing. And man, she, she sang her heart out every night, you know, no matter what. Like Alice, it was always for the audience. You know, you're not in a bad mood when you're up there. You don't dick around. You get 110%. And she was the queen. She really was the queen. And I'm so honored that I got the chance to work with her. That's the type of thing. When I first got the gig, my phone blew up from all of my white rock and roll drummer friends that said, "How the fuck did you pull that off?" And what? Come on. And I got, you know, growing up practicing in my basement. For me, it was all mostly prog rock and a lot of fusion. And of course, you know, I would check out other stuff that was fun. But there were two artists that I used to play and practice to all the time. Aretha Franklin and James Brown, because both gigs, especially James, are a drummer's dream. But you never expected to ever play with them. At the most, you'd play cover band, you know, in a cover band and, you know, play respect. So to find myself on stage, I got goosebumps, you know, with a woman and listening to her, watching her sing respect and, you know, rock steady and man, when we used to do bridge over troubled water and she would do the breakdown in the middle all on her own. Yeah, I had to hold back tears. It was so beautiful. Oh, yeah, I mean, I was really lucky. After these messages, we'll be right back. Yeah! Hey, friends. I kind of miss getting those messages on my answering machine like me used to back in the day. What I'd really love is to hear from you, the listeners of Dope Nostalgia. This is your chance to be on the show, giving feedback, telling us what you love, what you hate, and who you'd like to see more of. Call us at our new toll free number, 1-888-741-9192. Leave us some feedback. Your message could be played on the show. So give us a call, 1-888-741-9192. Toll free. Hi, this is Desmond Child, and you're listening to Dope Nostalgia. If we watch the movies so bad that it made you laugh, we have, and that's what we enjoy at the end of the reel. We're just two brothers doing a podcast about bad movies. Sometimes the movie will leave you in tears from laughter. Other times pain. From classics like The Room, Troll 2, and B Movie, bad movies are here to stay. Check us out at endofthereel.com. Enjoy extra sugar-free gum. You get extra flavor. Extra fun. In extra sugar-free gum. The long-lasting sugar-free gum is extra with NutriSuite. For extra refreshing flavor that lasts an extra, extra, extra long time. Extra flavor for the extra long fight. Extra flavor for the extra long night. When you chew it, extra. The extra fresh flavor has an extra, extra, extra long time. Extra lasts, extra long. Now, after that experience, what do you move on to next? What came, so you said about four years. So are we getting to the mid 90s now, right? Yeah. It's interesting that you ask that because it was really hard to, I went back to Satriani for the '95, '96 tour. And I didn't come back to it with the best of an attitude, you might say. Because I was really riding high on playing with Aretha and loving every minute of music. I was doing a lot of sessions in New York, so that part of my career that I'd always dreamed of having was happening. And, you know, I went back to Joe, and I found myself on stage for a little while, not happy. And I have to say, the same thing happened when I first played with Alice, because when I came back from the Soviet Union playing that music with Scali that was so unbelievable, even though I loved Alice's music, it was, you know, apples and oranges. And so when I came back to Joe, I had to smack myself. In the face after a few weeks and said, like, snap out of it. And I had to remember to appreciate every gig for what it offered me. And whatever Aretha offered me, even if I never did it again, I was so lucky to have that experience that I had to be able to compartmentalize it, put it on the shelf, and now enjoy the experience with Joe and anybody else, which I had to do with Alice too. So, yeah, it wasn't easy at first, it really wasn't. And it was an entirely different gig. You know, when I go back and play with Joe, I was a name in the outfit. Everybody in the audience knew me, you know, you got to do a big drum solo. You know, people wanted John of the Movers autograph. Nobody gave a shit who I was with Aretha Franklin. They just cared about her, but it was just so unbelievable to play with her. I mean, I could gush all day. But yeah, I came back to Joe, and I kicked myself in the ass, and I got myself back on track. And I was out with Joe from '95 into the middle of '96, right before the G3 tour, and then back to New York. I mean, I'm sure I'm forgetting things because I did, you know, sessions for all different people. But I think the next big thing for me in the '90s, and you might know something else that I did that I'm not remembering, was probably fuel. Yeah. Yeah, so in, I want to say it was the summer of '87. I was in New York, and I got, as I do all the time, a last minute rescue call. Nobody ever calls me to like rehearse and work out my shit. So I get a phone call from wonderful producer, Stephen Hagler, who used to work with the Pixies. And he was in Longview Farm in Massachusetts, recording with Fuel, who just got signed to Sony. And they had done a couple of weeks, and they did not have any drum tracks that were usable. And he got my name and called me up and said, "I need you. Can you come and do this?" And so it was a, I think it was a Sunday morning, or may have been Saturday. I put a four-piece kit in my car on Sunday. I drove up to Longview, and this is a great story because I love how it went down, and all the guys in the band are still great friends of mine. The lead singer, Brett, is one of my best friends, and we still work together. Anyway, I got up there in the middle afternoon, I set up my kit, we got sounds real quick. I had recorded in Longview many times since I was a kid, and I loved that place. And then we had dinner, and then after dinner, we just started knocking tunes out. And the way that I work in a situation like that is, play me the song, let me hear it. I'm going to make a cheat sheet with a couple of, you know, the framework of the tune, the structure, and if something hits me. Let me play it down once. I'm going to play each verse and chorus a little bit different. Then we'll listen to it. You tell me what you like, what you don't like, modify, do something else, and then we nail it. And it just came together. The second we started playing, which was live on their big stage, and the guys just turned around and with big smiles and looked at me like, "Wow!" You know, we've come up a level, no disrespect to the original drummer because he was definitely good enough to get them there. He just didn't have the experience in the studio to work quickly to save money. And when the clock is ticking and the producer is saying, "Hey, you know, I really need a takeout of you." And this was not fixing pro tools. This was live to 2-inch. He got nervous and it made things worse. Anyway, we did 9 songs the first night. We finished it like 4 o'clock in the morning, and I didn't want to finish. You know, Hagel was sleeping at the board, and he forced me to stop. I had a few hours of sleep. God, I've had breakfast, did 7 more songs than I was home that night on Monday. That is quick work. From the moment I started playing the first tune, I fell in love with the music and the guys. I remember listening to some of the lyrics as we were, you know, tracking because Carl Bell was the main composer and lyricist. And this kid was like 20 years old from Brownsville, Tennessee or something. Well, I know, was a Tennessee of Kentucky somewhere, way out in the middle of nowhere. And looking at him and saying, "Where did you experience life that you're writing like this? I mean, this is amazing stuff." So I did the record very friendly, and I said goodbye. And then, you know, about a month and a half, two months later, my girlfriend and I at the time, I had a house up on a lake in New Hampshire. We jumped on the Harley and on the way up in the late summer. We stopped to see them at Longview, and they were just getting ready to finish, and they were playing me some of the rops, and it was amazing. Then the next thing I knew, like a month or two later, they called me to do the tour because they were having issues with the same drummer live. And I just became great friends with them. They did have a drummer that joined the band and his name and faces on the record, but hidden on the record is all drums and recorded drums and percussion, Jonathan Mover. But if you pick the record up, you think it's him. But anyway, that's the way half of my career has been. So I did that record. I went in on the second record a few years later, and I worked on that with M2, and then Brett and I worked on some stuff in my studio in New York for like the fourth record. So I worked off on on with Fuel, and then another record later in the '90s with a band out of Sacramento called Oleander. I did their first record, which I think was a gold or a platinum record, and toured with them as well. Shakira was in the early 2000s, so I'd have to see a list of something in front of me to know what else I did in the '90s. But it's funny because when you first mentioned it, today I was thinking, "I don't know if I did that much or whatever, but now I'm realizing I actually had a nice decade." It was a very nice decade, and you're somewhat of a musical savior to many artists jumping in and being the fixer, which is incredible, because not a lot of musicians can work that quickly at that pace, right? I really do enjoy the challenge. I mean, it can be nerve-wracking sometimes, but it's in the studio, it's really rewarding. Live, it's rewarding as well, but like I said, it would be nice if I had the moment to rehearse with some people sometimes. But the one other thing that I did quite a bit through the '90s, and if you want to wrap up after this, because I think we've been talking half an hour. I still have more questions, so you're good. Another thing that I used to do in the '90s that to me was really, really rewarding was jingles. So on the '93 Time Machine Tour with Santoriani, for the first time we had a keyboard player, Phil Ashley, and Phil was amazing. Not only was he great keyboard player who played on the Kiss Records, and he was in the Electric Playboys, and did a bunch of other sessions with Billie Eidel and people, but he also was one of the co-owners of one of the biggest jingle houses in New York City. And so I ended up getting into a lot of jingle work with him, which not only paid very well and kept me very busy, but the challenge of being a jingle drummer is really great. I'm very, you know, exciting, because for an example, you'd get called in and we're doing a pizza hut session today. You have no idea what you're playing. It could be a country tune, it could be a reggae tune, it could be heavy metal. And you get a chart, you look at the chart, you take it in, make a few notes, you've got about three to five minutes. You go in, you play it down once, the producer who is usually Phil. And then the people from the jingle, sorry, the commercial company, BD&O, or whoever it was, they would point out what they liked or didn't like it. Phil would then over talk back say, you know, "Johnathan, I need you to, you know, we're going to turn that fifth measure into a measure of nine instead of a measure of eight. I want you to do this and blah, blah, blah." And then you go up one chance to knock it out. And if you don't knock it out that next time, they never call you back. And so I really loved, you know, I liked being thrown into the deep end like that. And you never know what you're going to get. I mean, we did, you know, Pepsi and Pizza Hut and Viagra and Zeralto, Applebee's, McDonald's, Chevy, AMC, you name it. I mean, I would flip the TV on and half the time watching a movie or something. And there's my commercial that's me playing and, you know, Chiching every time it plays, you get paid. So I did a lot of jingle work in New York City with Rocket Music was Phil's company. And very sadly, he passed away early, maybe about four or five years ago. And that was the end of all of that. But yeah, the '90s was full from '93 when I met him right through to, you know, 2015, '16. Lots of jingles and lots of TV work with Phil Ashley. Okay, so next, more for you. I'll be quiet. I'll let you ask some questions. No, that's so interesting. I'm glad you told me about that. I remember you said Pizza Hut. I worked there as a kid. So I was like, "Oh, I know these songs I bet." You know, it's funny. I remember one of the last sessions that we did for him, which I had actually closed my recording studio's timeline, so we went over to see our sound. And it was a Pizza Hut commercial and the chart was crazy. It had measures of two, four and three, four, and then some like five, 16 and seven, 16. And if you know the notation I'm talking about, it's just whacked out stuff. This is like playing rock or fusion. So I'm looking at the chart like, "Wow, this is really going to be intense. This is great." And so we started playing the music down and then after we got the take, a lot of the guys, you know, we all said, "Can we see what's playing?" Because you could go into the control room and look at the monitor and see what's happening. And so it was incredible how Phil, because he wrote it, put this together. And I remember it was about being in a delivery in a New York taxi or a Pizza Hut car driving around New York to bring pizzas all around and how fresh they were. And so, you know, the quick measures of two, four were the taxi flying down Broadway. And then it would go into a slow three, four waltz. And that was them preparing the dough and doing everything. And then it would do like a measure of five, sixteen, and it would be the knife chopping five slices. It's just crazy. And so that's the type of stuff that, you know, I got to be involved with, which was a lot of fun. I mean, it was really, again, I love the challenge, whether it's out super calling me on a Thursday to be on stage Friday or fuel calling me up, you know, on Sunday to start a record that night. And I dig that type of stuff. It keeps me on my toes and it's rewarding. It seems so much more fun to have that challenge. And just instead of just being in one band for 30 years and, you know, like you got to do so many incredible things. Yeah, I agree. I agree. I mean, I think if, you know, coming from a small town in Boston, you know, it wasn't really my destiny to play with a bunch of kids in high school or meet some local guys and get signed like Boston or Aris Smith or something, of course, if that had happened, I probably would have taken that road. But ever since I picked up sticks, I was into so many different styles and genres of drumming of music. And I was into so many different drummers and all the drummers that I was into with exception to, you know, John Bonham or Keith Moon Ringo, who played in one band. All the guys that I listened to played on all the records. Steve Gadd, Tony Williams, Simon Phillips, Vinny Colleuda, Terry Bozio, Peter Erskin, Jeff Picaro. I mean, you know, I'd go to a record store and I would just go through the bin and I would take every record and turn it over. And if I saw the name Jeff Picaro or Simon Phillips or Dave Maddox, I'd buy the record. And, you know, one day they're playing with Jeff Beck, and then the next week they were joining Mitchell, and then they're with, you know, Dolly Parton, I mean, that's really the career that I wanted. And that's what I pursued. So if something else had presented itself, I probably would have, you know, taken part to see what would happen. But for me, it was they're not going to call me up in Boston. So after high school, I took my chances and flew to London. If you had to pick your own self indulgent dream set list, what are some of the songs that would be on there that you'd like to play? Well, well, in a way, I'm doing that now, because I've got this new outfit called Project, P-R-O-G-J-E-C-T, which is the very best of my favorite of classic Prague rock growing up when I was a kid. And I've got some of the most amazing players in the band with me that are just killing it, and they're all big name pro players. So I am playing a lot of what I grew up playing. I'm just not playing it with the artist that I listened to, but kind of sometimes an extension of, because I got to play with the guys, some of the guys from Genesis and yes, and whatever. Yeah, so the music that I'm playing in Prague really does kind of, you know, encapsulate a lot of what I would choose to play. I think the only thing that's missing, you know, again, some of the fusion stuff. I really loved my Vishnu Orchestra and Jeff Beck and Brand X. Of course, I'm a massive, massive Zappa fan. So, you know, to be able to play anything from Zappa. But I'm very lucky, and in some ways, even though my career is not over, I do feel that I've come full circle, because I started out practicing and loving Prague rock. Genesis. Yes, and Mr. Lincoln Palmer King Crimson gentle giant Jeff hotel UK. All of those bands. That's what was on my turntable with some Zeppelin and Beatles and James and Aretha mixed in but English Prague rock to me was what I wanted to do. And so here I am now 40 plus years later, and I'm playing that music to an audience that loves it, because those bands aren't around anymore. But different from being in a tribute band, we cover all of Prague, not just one artist, and I'm playing in a band with top pro guys. So it's not like a bunch of guys that are emulating their favorite band that I don't mean to sound disrespectful, that never made it, if you know what I mean. I mean, I've got Mike Canelion guitar who played with Frank Zappa and Satreon and Steve by, and, you know, Rio Archimodos on keyboards and he played with Spock's beard and Phil Collins and Chris Squire from Yes. And Alessandro Del Vecchio now from Italy is my vocalist and also plays keys, and he's got a four and a half octave range and he's worked with the guys from Dream Theater and Jeff Rotol and Kansas and White Snake and Deep Purple. So I'm surrounded by guys of a level that keeps me on my toes and, you know, has me fighting to, you know, to stay way up here, which is great. So what I, I'm playing my wishlist, you know, the best of Genesis and Yes and EOP and Crimson, all the tunes that I wanted to play as a kid growing up, cards and cards by gentle giant, which I don't know if you know that song, but it's a beast of a tune. And, you know, when I was in high school and all of my musician friends were practicing to Blondie and Pat Benatar and Judas Priest and stuff, all great stuff. I was at home in the basement playing to Firth of Fifth and, you know, my zapper records. So I wasn't able to early on play the music that I loved playing because I couldn't find musicians that were either at the caliber to play it or had the interest in playing it. You know, so to be able to find guys of that level now and play that music that I dreamed of playing is really wonderful. I just love every playing. Musically to me, that would be the most satisfying thing is to be in a group with people that are of your caliber and have the same passion to play songs that they love. You know, it's not like just being in a cover band playing songs for, you know, like everyone who wants to hear Sweet Caroline at the bar who's drunk, you know, it's like you're getting to play the music you love and are challenged by and I think that's incredible. Yeah, I'm very, very happy with it. And we're, we've had three years of touring and we're already putting together 25 and 26 for the next two years. So yeah, I'm very, very happy to be where I'm at with that. Yeah. Not so cool all the opportunities you've had and are there any collaborations you want to make in the future or anything else coming up that you're thinking about doing. I mean, right now because project is my band, and I'm the person who's running it and, you know, booking it or sending out the emails and dealing with the, you know, the agents in Europe I'm very, very busy doing that. I still found out some tracks. But we've had so many people ask us for the last few years, what are you guys, you know, what about doing some original music are you going to do any. And at first I was not really into it because I don't want to detract or take away from the concept of what project is because project is paying homage to our favorite, you know, heroes of Prague. But I do love to compose and I put out a couple of solo type of records with a great trio called Einstein years ago back in the 90s. That's the other thing I did in the 90s. I put out my nine records. And, you know, I actually did quite well with them. And so I do love to compose when I have the opportunity to compose for somebody. And so just in the last six or seven months I got back on the piano and started throwing some riffs and ideas around and gave some of my thoughts to Alessandro. And he literally just emailed me this morning because he was here a couple of weeks ago. He emailed me this morning and he said these, these are unbelievable we have to do something with this. I don't know that it'll turn into an entire record because, again, we have a two and a half hour show that we play now, and a record is 45 minutes to an hour so it would have to be a whole different tour with a whole different concept. But, you know, maybe one or two tunes to collaborate with him in the band and try something and see where it goes. I mean, I'm always open to playing and working. But years ago, I would have reached out to more people to do things, whereas right now I'm so busy with project that if somebody reaches out to me I'm very open to it. But I don't really have much free time to even think about, you know, trying to approach somebody else or do something with somebody else yet not to say it wouldn't happen but things are, you know, pretty busy right now. I know you spent some time working with the Saigon kick, which was a passion really who really had their hey day in the 90s as well but you worked with them much later correct. Yes, I met them before the record came out. And I was in Dave Feld's office who was one of the guys, the A&R at Atlantic that signed them. I don't even remember how I met Dave. I may have played on something that he was involved with but I was in his office one day, and he played, you know, you got to check this stuff out. It gave me the demo of the Saigon, and I flipped out. I loved it the minute I heard it. The record came out not long after which may have been 90 or 91. And I think I definitely was not available to see them in New York City when they played, and they were playing in Boston, and I drove all the way to Boston to see them play at the channel. And I loved them. I met them. We all became great friends, still very friendly with two out of the four. The bass player. I'm forgetting his name. Tom, Tom left the band, I think after the first or second record and wasn't really seen for a long time. I was still very good friends, Jayce and Beeler and I, we do a lot of stuff together. And when Phil took off, I subbed for the band in the 2000s, you know, quite a few shows. And I played on Matt's solo record, and did a bunch of shows with him. We haven't spoken for a while because he's kind of got off a bit of the deep end. And yeah, you know, yeah, so I'm sure you know about more about it than me, maybe, but yeah, great guys and love the music. I was really a big, big fan of Jason's composing and Phil's drumming and Matt singing. I just thought that they were like the next best thing to slice bread in the early 90s. And, you know, no disrespect to the, to the guys on your t-shirt. One of the shows that I saw of Saigon in 90, 91, 92, they opened up for extreme in New York City and extreme is a great band. If I was in extreme, I would not want to come on the stage after Saigon kicked up, got done playing. They, the roof, they took no prisoners. And again, I'm a big fan of extreme, but Saigon, when they were on fire in the early days before they started butting heads and blaming each other for why things didn't happen the way they individually wanted it. They were amazing. Yeah, I actually, you know, still listen to the first record quite a bit and I'll throw the lizard on once in a while, still a big fan of the band. And whenever Jason calls me, because aside from being an unbelievably talented musician and singer and songwriter, Vocalist, everything, he's a great guy. I love the guy. He's a, he was actually the first guitar player in project. When I first put the band together, I called Jason before anybody else. And I knew what he was going to say to me. I have no idea how to play an 11 or 17, but I'll give it a shot, just send me the songs. And I sent him the material and he came out and he absolutely crushed it. He stepped up to the plate and was killing it. And we were on our way. The only reason actually, can you he was on one of my early list, but he was busy with Satriani. I had just seen him play with Joe. So I didn't think he'd be available to play with project. So I called up Jay, Jason came out, he crushed it. I loved it. And then COVID hit and COVID shut us down. And by the time a year later, the things started to open up and I was ready to get back on track. You know, he just said, Oh, I got to be honest. I'm already doing two or three other things. If you need me, call me, but if you can find somebody else, you know, I wouldn't be able to dedicate the time that I could a year before. And I totally respected that. And luckily for me, can you leave us available and wanted to take the gig. And now I'm playing with truly one of the best guitar plays on the planet. Yeah, I mean, you know, can you leave is right up there with Satriani and by and the rest of them. He is really quite a wonder. Yeah. Wow, I'm really glad that you're having this opportunity in life right now. If you look at things that are going on in the state of rock and roll today, you know, there's always these naysayers that say rock and roll is dead and blah, blah, blah. What do you think are some of the greatest things happening in rock right now? In the positive, you know, make it positive again because there's still so many good rock bands. What's really something you gravitate towards right now. Um, I mean, I'm definitely a creature of habit that I still listen to most of my older favorite bands. I'm still a Zeppelin Beatles, Zappa Pink Floyd, Genesis, James addiction, which I was very excited that the four of them will back together. And now they're not and I was going to go see them in LA. Um, but I told Perkins you owe me two tickets for that. Um, I mean, there are some really, really great singer songwriter musicians that are out there these days. Um, I just think it's more difficult to find them because we don't have radio like we used to have. Um, you know, we've got, you know, the, we have the pop stars that are marketed just like they were 30 years ago. Um, I, but they're marketed to an audience that has, you know, 15 second detention spans. And it's like, they're not really selling music anymore. No, not at all. And that's no respect to a Taylor Swift who is a billionaire and she's obviously doing something right. I mean, I'm, I don't listen to the music, but the girl can play and the girl. At least she writes everything. Exactly. Unlike some of the other people out there where it's just all put together for them. But every once in a while, you know, an artist does come through. That is really great. And it's still alive and it's still inside people. Um, there's a God, if I can remember his name, there's a, I believe is a Canadian singer songwriter. Does the name is a Dan Mangan? Yeah, you got it. Yeah. I mean, I was, I was watching a movie one night and the movie ended. And instead of me, like, you know, immediately going to the next thing on HBO or Netflix, you know, I probably got up to get a glass of water or something. And this tune came on in the background of the, the outro of the, you know, where the credits were rolling. It's like, wow. Who is this? This is like, this is better than average. This is what, and so I think I probably turned on my iPhone with, um, Shazam. Yeah. And, you know, listen, because that's what we do now. And this Dan Mangan came up and I got the song in the record and I don't know if he's big in Canada or not, because nobody here in the States that I know knows him, but man, that's a big in Canada. I, I'd work with him in a heartbeat because that type of music, you're happy to play. It's really great, great stuff. So, yeah, I mean, there's still good stuff that's out there. I'm not as plugged in as I used to be. And that's, you know, part and parcel to me. I'm just loving and still wanting to listen to Joni Mitchell and the Beatles and Amy Lou Harris and, and Zeppelin, a fairport convention who I was just listening to recently. But it's also because again, right now at the last four years have been 100% focused on project. So if I'm not playing it, I'm on the computer and pro tools, you know, putting together these amazing medleys of five Genesis tunes. And, you know, and six, yes songs and a couple of Crimson Tunes. And even though they might be 15 minutes long, you know, sometimes it takes, excuse me, four or five, six days to piece it together to make it all work. So I'm still pretty heavily embedded in the old stuff. But that being said, I'm still playing rock and roll as are my band mates and all of my friends. Yeah, Jason comes out to LA with Jeff Scott Soto. They've got this great duo that they do. They always call me to play drums or percussion. And so, you know, we do that and it's still alive, which is a wonderful thing. You know, I've been talking to, I want to get Jason on the show as well. I think I'll put you in touch. Yeah, he's a great guy. I mean, he's got stories like I got stories. He can talk for days as well. Well, I love it. Yeah, he's beautiful. I'll hook you up. No problem. Well, I hope this was as much fun for you as it was for me because I learned so much. This was a great, great walk to memory lane. Like I said, I kind of forgot about some of the things I've done and didn't realize that on one hand, they were so long ago, but on the other hand, they still mean so much to me because, again, the Saigon. The first record in that first fuel record sunburn is one of the, I hate listening to my drummer. Never ever liked listening to me. If I finish a session, they send me the record six months later. I listen to it once and I don't listen to it again because I always think to myself, oh, you know, Steve Gadd would have played that better that way or Simon Phillips would have done this. But there are a few records I do enjoy listening to and I love listening to that first fuel record because the music is so strong that I don't hear my playing in it. I just hit a song. You know, so yeah, there's some good stuff that I got to do in the 90s. So thank you for reminding me. If I could play a couple clips during the show after I added it of some of your work. Could you tell me a couple that I should include. Oh sure. Well, I mean, that whole for us fuel record is great. I especially love a song called song for you. [music] It's all I want. It's all I need. Now it's through. And it all comes back to you. [music] The only one. The one I need. And I love yous. [music] It wasn't one of the singles, but it was a killer. I prefer deep cuts. And the other one, another deep cut off of that record, which is a heavy tune is called Untitled. That's a great song. I mean, the opening track to the time machine record that I played on is a great song, Time Machine. There's some good live stuff from the Alice Cooper classics. I think I'm on like half of that live record. There's some good tunes on there. Yeah, good. Yeah, I just want to make sure when I put in the clips that it's you playing or anything off the first fuel record is 100% me. Time Machine is four or five drummers on that record, but the song Time Machine, I'm on that. And then you'd have to look at the classics Alice Cooper to see which ones I'm credited on. I never got a copy of the record or listened to it, but a bunch of people spoke. It was good. So I'll look at the credits before I choose something, then. If I take something from that, that's cool. Yeah. [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] [MUSIC] Wow, Jonathan, your time is very valuable and I thank you that you shared it today with me. Awesome. I'm actually, it's exciting for me too because I've got another interview in one hour with a radio station in Panama because the project is going to play Panama in a couple of weeks, actually in about 10 days. And so I've got that to do. And so, yeah, it's been, it's a good day. I'm ready to talk. I'm all pumped up from you now. Thank you. Oh, good. If you ever come out to Western Canada, you guys do Project Show in out here. I got lots of friends who would love to come see you play. So that would be cool. Yeah, I mean, we had a great few shows on the East Coast this last time out a few months ago. And I'm just now starting to put together some stuff for 24, 25, which will be West Coast. So maybe we can, I know we're looking at Vancouver. Maybe we can get over to Edmonton. Oh, yeah. I'll try. And, but for sure, in 26 without a doubt, it's the way we're doing more every year. If you do decide anything in Edmonton, I know a lot of people who we could talk to about venues and such, you just, if you need to look into a venue. Great. Yeah, I'll shoot you to an email without timeframe on what we're looking at. We can, we can trade knowledge and see what we can do. Sounds good. Awesome. Well, thank you very much. Again, I'm very flattered and appreciate that you were interested in talking to me. This has been really nice. Oh, it was, it was wonderful. So thank you again. Enjoy the rest of your day. Social media. Yeah, we've got it. Send us an email, dopenostalgiapodcast@gmail.com. Twitter, nostalgia, dope. Or on Insta, dope underscore nostalgia. This podcast is licensed by SOCAN because we believe that artists should be paid for their work. Hi. If you enjoy Dope Nostalgia, thank you. Consider becoming a Patreon subscriber today for as little as a dollar a month. 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