What The Ale?
35. The Abduction of Travis Walton
ghosts, cryptids, murder, conspiracies, beer, what? The L. Hello friends. Hello. Welcome back to What The L, I'm Lonerick. And I'm Mama J. Um, and I guess before you get into anything, Mama, what are you drinking and do you have any What The L, Mama? Well, I'm actually drinking a soda right now because I feel like a migraine is going on. So I was like, I'm going to take some time and drink some caffeine and see if it helps. So I'm having soda. What about you? Fair and valid. I am having a glass of red wine. Um, it's some sort of dark red, because I had a conference today and was like, we'd have some wine with dinner. And so, yeah. Very nice. And friends, I want to apologize in advance because I have some sniffles happening because it is allergy season. Yes it is. And you're walking a lot, probably your outdoors now that you're back in Boston. So you're probably out walking all the time with all the things blooming around you. Yeah, I'm out and I'm walking and I'm on the trains. Yeah, there's just lots of allergens happening today. So I apologize. I didn't take a pill, but it didn't seem to do anything. Um, but anyway, anyone deal moments? Um, yeah, just dealing with some insurance companies stuff from that accident that I mentioned a while back and it's been very frustrating. And I think I have to get a lawyer and that all sucks because I hate dealing with those kinds of things, but I am a big believer in holding people accountable. So that's where I'm at. So I've had a very frustrating day today. Yeah, that's super fair. Um, I think I just don't understand why people can't like, own up to making a steak and like, do the things, especially if you have insurance, like just, yeah. That's what it's for, you know. One to own up to a little bit in the beginning and then like, ghost and then not take responsibility later. It's very frustrating. No, I agree. That's so stupid. Um, definitely not a fan of that at all. Yeah. What about you? Any with the L? Um, I think the good with the L for this week is, um, I was sent to a conference today where it was all about reproductive justice and I was like in this space with like. Pretty much all of the women in color leading reproductive healthcare stuff in Boston and like, I met this lady who's like the queen mother of midwife free. And like, like trains, midwives and doulas on an international scale and like, I did some really cool networking and stuff. So it was like, definitely a really cool day. Um, my social battery is a little low, but you know, like, it was, it was a cool day and I'm really, like, fortunate to have a boss that was like, Hey, I think this is important and you should attend. So, yeah. Well, it's always good to do some networking with other powerful women. Yes. Yes. We love being in community with powerful women who are doing amazing work. So I like was almost so tempted. I was like, maybe I'll be a midwife and then I realized I'd have to go to nursing school and then become an RN and then become a midwife and I was like, never mind. I was 70 in my life is I went to mid midwifery school, but I had already, you know, was already a nurse and all of that before that, and decided to transition to that but really enjoy visit, but it is a long process and then getting all your hours of experience, clinical hours. A lot. Yeah, it really is a lot. But then my colleague and I who I was there with were like, well, maybe we'll become doulas and so we're still like around and like can't technically catch a baby but we'll be there. So who knows. Well, and I know somebody here in Sacramento because we have a volunteer doula program. Yeah. You just have to do these trainings and you could be a volunteer doula and still do really great work and support women. And I have somebody that's doing that now and really loves it. So, yeah, I've known a few people who have gone the doula track and really enjoy it and so I feel like maybe that could potentially be like a little side hustle for me but you know who knows. But anyway, totally shifting gears. Are you ready to get into the topic for the week? Yeah, I'm excited to see what you got. All right, friends, I felt like I was really let down after Roswell realizing how small Roswell was because I really thought it was a big thing because everyone knows about it. Yeah. And so I decided to do another alien encounter abduction situation, if you will, that I felt like had a lot more documentation and a lot more information. So I'm bringing us all down to snowflake Arizona. Okay. And we're going to talk about the abduction of Travis Walton. Have you ever heard of this chase? Yeah, I think I have, but, but I didn't realize there was a snowflake Arizona. I know it doesn't make sense like a contradiction. I mean, I guess you get some snow up in pine top, but yeah. And my staff, but. Yeah, snowflake Arizona. That's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, I do want to say personally, I think this is one of the best documented UFO encounters. And personally me, myself and I, not that like you can totally prove if someone's telling the truth or lying, but I kind of am in the court of Travis did experience something versus nothing happened. And we'll kind of get into why as we go on, but that is where I'm coming from with my research. I watched two documentaries and read a lot. So, you know, I did some resources, some research, if you will. Um, but okay. So November 5th, 1975. Travis Walton and a group of bloggers were working along the rim and the Apache site or set graves, National Forest near the Grand Canyon. Um, and like their whole project was kind of improving the florist, like clearing down trees and things to prevent forest fires. Um, and it is something important to note. So it was like the end of the season. It was early November and they were running behind. And so they worked really long hours that day, like normally it was like kind of a nine to five, but they were working until like seven or eight PM. Um, but they kind of put the equipment in the trunk at the end of the day and then started to drive down the hill. And they saw a glow in the forest. And so at first they were like, oh, maybe it's just the moon. And then they looked and were like, no, that's not the moon. And then they looked again. And they were like, maybe like a plane crashed or a car crashed because it was in the middle of a clearing like it wasn't like a road was there. Um, and so they decided to go check it out just to make sure, you know, people were safe. And when they got there, they found a round craft that was levitating 15 to 20 feet off of the ground. Um, and this is kind of where the timeline gets scary. So I'm going to kind of say what the other bloggers experience and then get into what Travis talks about. Um, just like it was like a large craft like. Yeah, yeah, they said it was kind of like the classic like donut shaped craft that was like big and levitating above the ground. Um, so Travis was like, I'm going to check this out. And so he gets out the car and goes to investigate. And as he got closer, he said that there was a really high pitched noise and it grew louder almost like outside of like the human range of hearing. Um, and so he like crouched down to cover his ears and got up to like run back to the truck. And then at that exact moment, the craft like, glowed a bright blue or green. And then they, all of the loggers said they saw Travis. Um, floating a few feet off of the ground and that when the light ended, he like crumpled to the ground and they thought he was dead. Um, and so they were like terrified and out of fear drove away because they're like, this is crazy. And they thought they were next. They're like, we're going to get out of here. Um, and Travis himself said that like when this happened to him, he felt like it felt like a high voltage electrocution. He completely lost consciousness, but he was still alive. Um, so the loggers, you know, they drove away out of fear, but then they all like got a few miles away. They saw the craft flew away. So they were like, okay, you know what, like, let's go back and get Travis because if he's injured, we need to help him. So they get there and Travis is gone. And I mean, when I say Travis is gone, like they searched the area for hours and he was completely gone. There was not even a sign of him. Wow. And so they immediately were like, okay, like, we need to report this to police. And so they go to the police. And they don't believe them. They're like, I think you killed Travis. It's something happened to Travis. Like, y'all are kind of sketchy. But something important to note is every single logger, there were seven of them. All of them had the exact same story. And yes, people could have rehearsed it, but still, and then like an interrogation setting, you think someone would crack after like five days of interrogating. Something else that was important to note is that all of them agreed to go through a polygraph examination, which we know like polygraphs nowadays are like not really seen as that reliable. But they had like the top guy in the state of Arizona come from Phoenix to administer the polygraph. And he said, you know, they asked questions like, did you kill Travis, you know, what happened? Did you see a flying saucer that type of thing? And there was absolutely no real sign of deception. Like they all passed except for one guy who his was inconclusive. Which I think I mentioned more later in the theories. But, so his was inconclusive, but all of them passed the polygraph, which again you getting six people passing a polygraph that's pretty impressive. So, after five days, Travis kind of appeared. And he, in his, in his mind, you know, what happened was he woke up on the roadway, and Hebrew Arizona, the craft was above him and it just took off silently. And then he saw a light where there was a gas station in the phone booth, and he called his brother in law Duane, and they collected him, they took him back, and things to note is that Travis had a five day growth and beard. He had lost, I believe they said he lost around 10 pounds. He was a kind of a tall and linky guy. And in his mind, he thought he'd only been gone a couple hours. He didn't know until he saw his beard that he had actually been gone longer than that. And so, you know, like I said, kind of weird that he didn't know. But at the time, like, there were a bunch of UFO groups and tabloids in the media wanting to know what happened because they had already gotten wind of what the friends were saying and then when Travis came back and was like, I don't know, dude, like this is kind of weird. They, you know, wanted to talk to him, but Travis really avoided the media for like the immediate time after the incident, he saw the threats in the warnings that his friends were receiving from, you know, what he believed were like government agencies. And so he was like, I don't want to do that. He didn't take a polygraph at first because he didn't want to like be ridiculed and like not believed. And he even said he felt like he was in like a really fragile condition. Like nowadays we might as well call it like PTSD, but he was having like flashbacks and like trouble sleeping and like all of that. And he was just like, I want to like put it behind me and get back to normal. So his brother Dwayne, who he called when he returned was the one that kind of took over the community, the communicating with the media and like talking to law enforcement and staff. So, at some point, Travis like is trying to like kind of recall what happened, but he was having a lot of trouble. And so he actually decided to undergo hypnotherapy, which I think a lot of people there's a lot of support and not support for hypnotherapy. And it's, you know, really hard to tell, but Travis was in this situation, he was able to kind of recall what happened. And so with the help of the aerial phenomenon research office or apro, he traveled to Tucson. And he decided to work with one of their head met their best. So what he remembers is after he blacked out when the craft like lit up and everything. He regained consciousness and saw a light on the ceiling. He says he believe. Yeah, so he thought he was in a hospital or a doctor's office because there was like a big bright light right above him and it kind of looked like a medical situation very sterile. And he felt like he was in some like bodily pain like achy, you know. And he saw two men that he said had underdeveloped features and no hair. What he explained was like large brown eyes and normally large heads and then they were like brown overalls. And every kind of depiction I've seen in like the documentaries, they kind of looked like the typical like gray aliens like the guys with the big heads and the big eyes and that type of thing. And so when that happened, he obviously freaked out a little bit and lashed out and tried to defend himself. And the creatures left they were like, Oh, I do bye. So he kind of saw that day went to the right and so he was like okay I'm going to go down the hallway to the left. And so he went into a room that was full of controls and then a man came in that looked like a human but he had an air helmet on. And Travis like tried talking to him but he didn't answer and the man kind of like led him to a room that was kind of like an airplane hanger but he said there were two other flying saucers in this room. And then he was led into a different room where there were three other people who didn't answer him. And these people all four of them so the guy with the helmet and then the other three, all had the same velvety blue uniforms. He said they were very blemishless like on their skin they were really good looking they were all like blonde hair blue eyes he thought they all looked like they could be like quadruplets like they weren't identical but they looked related. And so then at that point he said they put a mask over his face and he lost consciousness and the next thing he knows he's waking up in Hebrew Arizona on the freeway. So, that's super creepy I mean I don't know what do you, I feel like there's a lot of detail there but it's also hard because like some of the stuff really fits. Typical alien encounters I guess or stories you know. But again like I said this is one of the most documented ones in my opinion. So Travis himself. He's still alive he's kicking down in snowflake. But he believes that after the hypnosis he actually felt relief because he finally knew what happened he said initially he was just really scared of the unknown he was like I was gone for five days and I have no idea what happened. Well if you're having some nightmares or flashbacks I do think that's scary or maybe you like have parts of it that are coming back but it's like disconnected. So yeah he was able to get like a more full picture I can understand why at least then you know if it doesn't feel so disjointed at least you know you would feel. I don't know just like a little bit about having those gaps filled in. No totally I agree I mean I would rather kind of know what happened to not you know even though it might be hard or scary. Mine can go to all kinds of creepy things if you don't know and yeah so just like knowing sometimes is better even if there are some creepy things about it or whatever. Yeah I totally agree and I do want to say a psychologist or the psychiatrist who did the hypnotism was really well renowned I didn't write his name down but he's like a really well renowned psychiatrist you know he is kind of like a no nonsense like and they actually took a lot of precautions to make sure nothing was falsely reported like they tried not to ask leading questions they tried not to you know whatever they just kind of let Travis say what he saw or what he was feeling like they didn't say oh did you see a craft or did you see people or you know that type of thing. So you know you never know I mean if Travis was thinking oh like I saw aliens like maybe he could have but it's also hard to know because when you're being hypnotized you are very suggestible. I think it's interesting too that that agency happens to have a hypnosis psychiatrist on staff to do these things. Well I don't know if he was on staff I just think that for him to go and talk to the psychiatrist. Yeah. I was going to say because how often do they need that. Yeah no I thought about that too I was like I wonder if he was a plant but as far as I could tell it seemed like they just hired a guy out of Phoenix. And they also had an actual physicist come and check it out. And he was trying to remain really objective he had no agenda he didn't believe either way. But he wanted to say that the thing that was really unique about this encounter specifically was that there were witnesses and there were several witnesses. All past polygraphs except for one who was inconclusive and they all had the same account they all experienced similar things and even Travis's experience matched up with the witnesses. Which to me, even though we know polygraphs are kind of a bogus science. It is interesting. I think would be really hard to pull a tat like they were like yeah you could pull a polygraph maybe once or twice you couldn't pull it seven times. That's kind of what they were saying. Yeah. And so the and like I mentioned they had like the top guy in Phoenix come up for the polygraph examination because there really were none in Arizona at the time. But this guy was like trained by the creator of the polygraph in New York City and then like was stationed in Phoenix like he was like really well renowned in the field as well. And he had helped out on several criminal investigations in Arizona and had been really successful. So it's not like he was like a new guy or anything like he was pretty pretty well versed in the exam. Yeah. And you know all of the guys said that they were just really scared by the polygraph that they were going to be convicted of murder because at the time when they were being interviewed like they were like. Well did you kill Travis and then I don't know what happened to Travis did you have beef with him you know that type of thing. Yeah and so. I did think that was interesting and then the guy whose test was inconclusive apparently he was more nervous because recently he had had a run in with the law for possession of marijuana. And so they're like he could have just been super stressed. So they were like there's no like you know this was the 70s like it's a little bit different now but back then that was really scary to talk to the cops if you had a prior. Yeah. So like I said and then they actually did a calculation on the probability of like six people passing a polygraph that weren't telling the truth and it was 1 million the 1. And then like I said the guy whose polygraph was inconclusive he passed on the second attempt so like once his blood pressure went down he fell better he passed again. And so. Like I said I know it's a hard science you never really know what polygraphs but to me you can get to just a. Interesting. And Travis and his brother Dwayne passed several polygraphs as well now Dwayne wasn't there for the abduction but his account of. How Travis contacted him and everything were accurate and they did ask him. Yeah and I'm sure like when you pick Travis up you know Travis being confused about time or your growth or just you know all of the things I'm sure the brother had a lot to say about those kind of early. Yeah. Yeah and they even asked I mean did you see Travis from the state to the state had you heard from Travis like they were just trying to gauge like. You know where he was but like no one knew where he was like he was just completely gone. So it is interesting and they also passed several tests as well. I do want to say Travis has passed many many polygraphs but he failed one. And he failed this test on a TV show where they were trying to debunk the abduction and to me I don't know if I was like on national TV I might fail a polygraph to I'm not saying. Whatever but he has passed every single other polygraphs and even polygraphs. You show you would be nervous and knowing it's a show that's trying to debunk what you're saying that you would have all kinds of feelings about that. I will say if the show had an investment in wanting to debunk it, they might have read a polygraph a certain way too so. Yeah and that's kind of what Travis said he's like it didn't feel like they actually wanted me to pass like he felt like it was kind of skewed one way. Yeah. So, you know, you never know. Like I said we're being open here. There was actually some scientific testing done in the area. So they found that there was a. Or in 2014 they did a field survey of the area because if there was like an object like that that was using stuff maybe there was debris or radiation or something. And what they found in their calculations was that the wood fiber growth on the trees was 36% higher than in the previous 85 years. So the trees were growing at a really fast rate. And then what they found was that there was a swelling in the ghost in the tree rings you know how trees are normally circles. Yeah. The trees kind of became oblong like obels and the swelling was in the direction of the clearing or where the craft would have been versus the other way on every single tree in that area. Well, that's weird. Yeah. So, like I said, that science we don't know why exactly they're not they haven't done a ton of research on that. But something I do want to know and I found this in the documentary to was that after Chernobyl. I think they did a test like five years after Chernobyl and the trees had grown three times in volume of accelerated growth as in previous years. So there does seem to be a correlation with like plant growth and radiation, even though that's not something we've totally studied a time. So I do think that's interesting. Doesn't mean necessarily was it a UFO. We don't know, but there was something there. And it started from the time that Travis reported the incident. So, I do think that's really interesting and cool because I'm like that science like that's me. And I do want to talk about like one of the big critics of Travis in this whole story, who was Philip class. He was like a massive skeptic I believe he like from my side he was not, you know, open to any other influence at all. But he published papers he did interviews. With like people he moved around transcripts to make it seem like maybe the witnesses weren't as credible. He called every single person that was close to the case every witness every family member every sheriff whatever but he never reached out directly to Travis which I think is already showing bias if we're going. Exactly. They Travis also challenged class to do a redo of the polygraph with an examiner like an examiner that class agreed to. And he refused because you know like again like I'm we know a polygraph is something that potentially if you were smart enough you could do a false positive or something. But like why are you refusing when he's like I'll do it again. And Travis was even like if I beat the polygraph you pay for it but if if I lose it, I will pay for it out of pocket. So what was class losing in that situation to me. Well what was it losing if he actually believed that he was lying. The results were skewed in some way. Yeah, then he knew that there is a risk there. Yeah, exactly. And so you brought up a good point which I'm going to touch on in a minute. But before I get there. They did when the medical staff examined Travis they found a puncture wound behind his elbow. The abduction is kind of like their assumption like maybe they gave him something. And Travis or class kind of was like well Travis was using LSD because this is the 70s and we can't you know act like this like blue collar guy was straight laced and not doing anything. But there was no evidence. There's no evidence that Travis is LSD there was no evidence that the other guys used LSD. So I don't know. There was also so the leader of the group like I said they were behind on their contract they were trying to you know make up for last time because they were behind on cleaning up the forest. And so his argument was like well. If Rogers was behind maybe he was like making up the story to get out of it. But they actually like talk to the contractor person that was like kind of in charge of the whole mission they talked to Rogers and like the encounter wouldn't have gotten them out of it. And there was no way to actually benefit from the incident if anything they were actually harmed from it. And the government like was putting a lot of pressure on Rogers to sign an affidavit to confess to like fraud essentially and he was like I did nothing. Like I'm just telling you I saw my friend get zapped and he collapsed like that's all I saw. So he never talked directly to Travis but he did offer Travis and the folks who was connected with $10,000 in 1982 confess to really broad. Yes. So I know. And so here's something interesting so the documentary went into it I didn't have time to really look further into this. Like who was class connected to because he seemed to have an agenda. Yeah for sure. So there was a huge UFO to bunker at the time named Donald Menzel and he was connected to the NSA. And this guy like was from Harvard and he had written a letter to JFK in the 60s about being involved as a part of the NSA which for those who don't know it's national security administration. But he had written a letter to JFK saying I'm an astronomer and you're going to need my expertise. And this was like during the space race before we had met on the moon and all that. And so people believe that the CIA could have been using class to discredit them. And kind of distract from. Yeah. You know the actual situation. The piece of evidence was that class was constantly published in the New York Times and other well-known publications with like no issues like he was like constantly in different newspapers writing op-eds and things like don't believe Travis Walton he's terrible look over here. Like you know which again like I said if he was not biased he wouldn't have in my opinion he would have talked to Travis and he would have been more open to the scientific method. He didn't seem like that at all to me if he was a scientist. Yeah. Something someone else noted was that you know he was like a professor at like a small college. He didn't have a huge income right. But he somehow had $10,000 to bribe Travis and the other guys and what was he going to gain from this bribe like in reality was kind of their belief. So like I said to me it sounds like class maybe was involved in something maybe Travis stumbled upon something he shouldn't have. But I do want to say a few things about Travis and how he's doing or like how he feels about it now because it's been a really long time and then I also have some little like UFO fun facts. So you know Travis and all of the witnesses I mean it's not like they did this for fame. It doesn't seem like that at all. Like several of them lost their jobs lost out on other opportunities quite a few moved out of the town because they couldn't escape it. So Travis still lives in snowflake but he really can't. He can't escape it you know he just hasn't been able to and he you know goes on talk shows and stuff and he's like well I'll just stay here I guess. But you know he's even like quoted several times saying like I think about it all the time like I could just say we were drunk and we faked it. But then people would pick on me anyway, like if I like if I lied and said that we faked it people would pick on me for lying. And he's like and I didn't lie. And so, you know, a lot of people in the documentary also were like Travis doesn't seem to enjoy it. He's like awkward he doesn't seem to have fun when he's in front of cameras. And he's like doing this for like fame or attention or yeah and he and the documentary even said he's like I just said like I became this guy and I said this because I felt like other people needed a voice. Like if they had experienced this to know that like other people were experiencing this as well. And like they weren't alone like he wanted to kind of be an ally and an advocate for other folks who were experiencing it. But before we kind of get into like the theory of maybe why Travis was taken I wanted to say what Travis's theory was because I think that's kind of interesting. Okay. So, Travis is like main theory as to why I was taken was that that beam that struck him was most likely going to be fatal if he didn't get to a hospital. And he believes that the grace took him in order to save him. And he was like no I wouldn't wish it on anyone. You know, and he was like even members of the crew said thing like they wish it would have happened to us or you know whatever and he's like no like it shouldn't have happened it sucked it wasn't great. So does he think then that they struck that accidentally and then we're like oh shit look what we did or. Yeah so so his theory is like maybe they were there for surveillance or maybe they were there and saw that the truck came up and we're trying to escape but didn't see Travis. And then they like tried to take off or something they struck Travis with the beam and then they felt bad when his friends abandoned him and we're like we need to save them. It's kind of his theory and a lot of that goes back to his like memories of like his like yeah like feel like interacted with me they put a mask on my face and I like passed out or you know whatever I woke up an exam room. But he was like it wasn't like they were hurting me like he's like I don't remember any sort of like torture tests or anything and they were like kind of just like. Yeah and he was like they were kind of chill with me just existing you know. So, well that's the theory. Yeah and I kind of like that like I said because I remember like when I first heard about this I was like oh he was probed and then like he wasn't broke like he was just like on the ship and we don't really know what happened. Yeah, I do think it's interesting I think that's a cool theory and like like I said Travis is like I am no ill towards them like he's like his he was like he was like why would they have taken me he's like I'm not that smart. He's like I'm not smart I'm not an asset I'm not important to the world like why would they have taken me and that's kind of his theory. Okay, I do have a few like UFO facts before we kind of wrap up wrap up which I thought were fun. Okay so I don't know if you know this but can you give me a ballpark of how many UFO encounters you think have occurred in the US. Oh my gosh like I would have no idea. No, no gas number. Yeah, I really can't you know because I don't even know if it would be in the hundreds of the thousands or the millions like I pretend to make that sense of thousands. I really have no idea a lot of. Well approximately 92,000 that have been reported in the US. Yes, and according to most people who research UFOs this incident and snowflake is the most documented case with the most like somewhat credibility. And there is definitely more witnesses to this one than there are two alone out of the others I think. I think so too. And I also think they're so something else they said there's like 12,000 UFO sightings a year and statistically like we know some of those might be like military tests weird planes that type of thing. Because UFOs are just unidentified flying objects they're not like flying saucers. But there are a lot of sightings annually. And so people are like well statistically like with how big the universe is and how many sightings there are Travis could be telling the truth like it's not like improbable right. And he said that like he himself has been noted many times saying like it is important to be skeptical with the reports and hold them to strict scrutiny. He's like hold them to the scientific method hold them to, you know, looking for evidence he's like because that's important. Like he's not out here like believe all the UFO encounters and something they all kind of mentioned was that they believe that people nowadays are more open to accepting the idea of intelligent life coming to earth. And so maybe that's why, you know, the story kind of has always lived on like I said this happened in 1975 and people are still talking about it and like they just made a documentary a year ago with Travis talking about it. You know, so it is interesting that this is something that has gone on for so long. And something Travis, you know, kind of, I wouldn't say begrudgingly but he just kind of like said he was like listen if you're talking to a skeptic that's convinced you're 100% lying to them. You can do a brick wall, like they're not going to listen to you. They're not going to whatever. So he's like it's not worth it. Well, that's what I like with some of the stuff you know if if somebody clearly had an agenda. Yeah, they're probably going to find their way because they've already decided what they're going to find, you know. Yeah, exactly. And that's something too I, you know, would want to say like with the Philip class piece and like something even Travis said was like he's like why can't people just say like oh something weird happened. We just can't explain it. Like what's so hard about saying something weird happened, you know. But yeah, I mean, I think that's kind of the basis of the abduction and disappearance of Travis Walton and I just wanted to share it because I thought it was super interesting. Yeah, that really is interesting. But do you have any thoughts? I mean, do you think he actually wasn't affected? Do you think he's making it up? Like what are your vibes? I mean, you know, my thoughts are, you know, because I really do believe that there has to be other intelligent life because the universe is so vast and it just does not make sense that we'd be the only intelligent life anywhere in the universe. So I definitely think there is it would not shock me if there are, you know, beings out there that are more advanced or more intelligent than we are at better technology or whatever. That would not shock me because we're a little slow. It exists sometimes. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, but you know, I do think it's interesting that, you know, with all of those things like the bribe and all of that that he never changed his story. You know, I think it's interesting that there were so many witnesses that all had the same story, you know, because again, a lot of these abductions we hear about like nobody's around nobody sees it. And so, you know, I just think all of that stuff is really interesting. So I like the idea that this would be true. Yeah. And I mean, to me, I don't know, the wood growth on the trees is at least telling to me that something happened. To me, I'm like, it might not mean that it was a UFO. It could have been something super weird, but like something happened there because why starting in 1975 did these trees suddenly have an increase in wood growth. That makes that's unexplained. So. Yeah, that's just how I feel. But yeah, I mean, that's kind of all I had with this one. Okay, but I'm really happy. Yeah, I've been, I've been sitting on it for a while. I was like, I really want to do it, but I knew there were several documentaries. So I was like, I want to wait till I have time to like sit down and watch them. Yeah, rather than just kind of reading the spark notes. But yeah, like I said, the documentary, I think it's called like alien abduction, the true story of Travis Walton, I believe is the name of the documentary. I watched on YouTube for free. So if anyone's interested, you could totally watch it. But lots of other like alien encounters shows have covered this. Like I said, it's one of the most documented. So a lot of people see it as evidence of intelligent life in the world. And I really think it's a cool story. But yeah, I guess getting into some housekeeping things friends and make sure to follow us on Instagram at what the L pod. We, you know, we're going to be getting our flight out to you next week, as well as our bonus episode for April. So keep an eye out. And then we're also going to have, you know, or not, we're going to have, but feel free to send us your kind of story ideas or anything like that as they come up and we will put them into a nice little listeners episode for y'all. And outside of that, I just want to say I appreciate you mama. I do baby. And we appreciate you friends. Thanks so much. Bye. [BLANK_AUDIO]