0:00 Baker Mayfield loses a bet
10:27 Packers at Lions TNF preview
38:33 Jahmyr Gibbs posts Lions calls on social media
PFT Live with Mike Florio
Packers at Lions preview + Jahmyr Gibbs posts Lions calls to social media (Hour 1)
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From worn-out components to everyday necessities, call clickgranger.com or just stop by, Ranger, for the ones who get it done. This episode is brought to you by Progressive. Most of you aren't just listening right now. You're multitasking. But what if you could also be saving money by switching to Progressive? Drivers you save by switching save nearly $750 on average and auto customers qualify for an average of seven discounts. So, multitask right now. Get your quote now at Progressive.com. Progressive cash-worthy insurance company and affiliates national average 12 months savings of $744 by new customers surveyed, who saved with Progressive between June 2022 and May 2023. Potential savings will vary. Discounts not available in all states and situations. You don't have one. It's Casey Phillips. So, yep, today. Oh, it's definitely not mine. Let's get started. Whoa, that's good. Hey, Graham Afield, supporting the Mizzou Grandma hoodie. Lost to bet with Casey Phillips who covers the box. Apparently, Missouri beat Oklahoma. Is that why? Yes, that is why. Yes, thank you for that, Captain Obvious. That's exactly why. But it's pretty good. He is a good sport for doing that. I mean, seriously, going out there. You know, it happens in the locker room, you know, and here's the tweet from Casey Phillips. It happens in the locker room. And, of course, we know rivalry talk in the locker room is definitely a real thing. So, made a little wager and had to deal with the grandma switcher. It's pretty good. Usually, it doesn't happen between players and reporters, though. And the fact that it does just shows that Baker Mayfield is different in a good way. Yeah, that's why he's very loose and casual and gets along with everyone and kind of appreciates this moment he's found himself in. So, good for him, good for him. And I don't think it's Captain Obvious to say Missouri and Oklahoma played this weekend because there were so many games this past weekend that were far more significant than that that, right? No, I didn't know. Not that I sat there. Not that I sat there. Not that I sat there and watched it either. But no, no, no, it was extremely obvious. A guy that went to Oklahoma showed up in Missouri. That's what that's what. Okay. He didn't wear it because of what did you think it was from a game four weeks ago? What did you think? I mean, of course, yeah, okay. They played four weeks ago. He played four weeks ago. Wait a minute. He's four weeks. He tried to welter for a while pay up. He tried not to pay up. That's amazing. Play this week. That's the thing. The thing that I really don't like about West Virginia being in the big 12th, I have no rival. When it's rivalry weekend, like, hey, who's West Virginia playing? Yeah. Nobody cares. Nobody cares about West Virginia ball ball. Come on. Past years, it's been Kansas. It's weird. That's not a weekend when all the great rivalries are dusted off. Right. Like Texas, Texas A and M West Virginia and Texas Tech. Texas Tech beat the crap. Texas Tech got Neil Brown fired from West Virginia. Not that that was anything other than the final nail in the final nail in the final nail of the coffin. But I haven't heard anything. Yeah. I've heard anything about who the next West Virginia coach is going to be. Nor have I been paying much attention. I know you don't like watch a ton of college real ball, but you'll you'll sit down and watch it this weekend a little bit, right? I know you got to travel on Saturday, but you got SEC championship, Big Ten championship. Got all that stuff, right? Some good rivalries, Oregon Penn State, Texas versus Georgia. I got two top five matchups in the SEC of Big Ten and championship. Pretty good. The travel thing really throws a wrench into it because it frustrates me. Like if I start watching a game and I have to leave and I can I can watch it on your phone, but then like, you know, when the plane takes off, like I dread the weekend when there's three Saturday game. There's no TV on the plane. You don't got to wait. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, these little regional jets. They don't have the TV. So it's it's it's and it gets it gets frustrating. And the more NFL season heats up, I I've got my fill of football. Like you know, when you're all in with the NFL all the time, there's certain games that catch your eye. There's certain games you'll watch. It's usually earlier in the season where I'm more doubting with college football because the NFL season really hasn't ramped up. You got a weekend before the NFL season starts where there's a lot of college football. I watch more college football, Labor Day weekend, then I probably have watched since Labor Day weekend. We'll get ramped up this time. We got it's championship weekend. We got the college football playoff coming. Those it's going to be good. I don't you're going to see a lot of household names are going to be in the NFL. That's, you know, at some point. And and it is it is the first year they're ever doing it. Right. I know you know that. So that it is really cool. And this week is expanded from four to 12. Yeah. Wait a minute, captain obvious. Right. You were actually paid to work college football this year. And you don't know this is the first year they've expanded from four to 12. Oh, I was stating that. Didn't I just state that? I thought I just I thought you said I think this is the no no. This is the this is the first year I did not know if Oklahoma played Missouri this past week and I'll be totally clear about that. So sorry for the the the you know calling you Captain Captain obvious there. But yeah, this weekend, Texas, Georgia. I mean, I the last time Texas, Georgia played, Maria made me wear a Georgia shirt all around the facility the next the next week or the next on Sunday, the day after. And then of course, that's a big thing in any locker room. We had certain locker rooms, Mike, I was in where you had to bet money if your school was playing another guy from another school, right? You had to like no matter what, even if your team stunk and you went there, that team's really good. Like you had to bet something on it. So there's some real, you know, talk, pop out your chest, pride talk when it comes to these college matchups. What's the give me an example of anything you had to do when you were playing with Texas losing someone. Yeah, I didn't have to. I mean, I definitely lost a few where I had to, you know, give that a few hundred dollars. The worst ever was and this is why I don't gamble and don't want to Texas, USC National Championship, right? Vince Young, one of the greatest games ever, right? All that. We had a few USC guys on our team. We had a corner named Brian Kelly. You might remember him. Great guy. Hell of a player. He's a USC alum. We bet, I think, 5,000 on the game, maybe 7,500. I've never really bet on a game like that. And of course, USC was up early and it was, it was a nailbiter. But that was probably as nervous as I ever was watching a football game as far as money on the line. But you did win. But see, that's, that's one of the reasons why I have no interest in doing it. Right. I don't need that rollercoaster to enjoy a game. I don't need to have the extra dopamine or whatever the exact opposite of dopamine is. I don't fear emotions in my body. I get enough of a rush just watching a game and enjoying a good game. So I hear you there. By the way, I hope the statute of limitations is run on illegal betting in Florida. I think you're probably fine. I also, yeah, the whole, the whole locker room of the 20, 2005 bucks is in deep, deep shit. If that's the problem. Well, you can, you can, you can enter the witness protection program. Yeah. I need it to get to that point. Yeah. Speaking of that, speaking of jail, this is a good segue. So I, one of the things I've been doing on the Thursdays when I've had to do this myself, I, I take time to try to get people to buy my books because it actually works when I mentioned father of mine, son of mine on our way home. Oh my God. At some point this year, let me tell you something. Give me supportive. I'm supportive of you. Okay. Be supportive. I'm supportive. Support of the good sensitive. All right. So anyway, at some point earlier this year, in response to something I wrote about my dad on his birthday, it'd be like a hundred and two hundred and three. Anyway, uh, he was old. He was, I'm not that old. He was, he was, he was old when I was, when I was, he was older, he was an old father, era. Right. He was in his 40s. Right. Think about that. In 1965, he was in his 40s when I was born. So, so someone connected to the NFL was sufficiently motivated by whatever I wrote. This person purchased $10,000 worth of father of mine for me to donate as I see fit, which was a great thing and an awful thing on the other side because for a couple of months now, I've had down in my garage many boxes full of copies of father of mine, $10,000 buys about 650 copies. And I've been giving them a way to different places, different facilities, whether it's a VA facility or a hospital or a school or whatever. And it's like, hey, some of these schools are like, hey, we'd like to have five copies of your book. It's like the language is a little salty. They didn't quite say kids got to learn sometime, but they were, they were fine. Anyway, so I'm getting rid of the vast majority of them today, 500 of them today. There's a conference in town of all of the wardens or technically superintendents of all of the prisons in West Virginia. They're taking 500 copies of these things to be distributed to the folks who are serving time, paying their debt to society. They don't have to just sit there and stare at the wall, although staring at the wall might be more entertaining than reading father of mine. So I get all those boxes today. All my clutter gone. It's out of here. They're going to be gone. But here's the problem I've got myself into. I decided this week, after not really thinking about it, because we're caught up in all the other stuff we're doing, you know, it would be a nice touch if I signed all of them. Hey, I asked my wife, hey, what should I say? And she said, well, why weren't you doing it all long? It's like, well, yeah, that probably would have been a good idea. So I decided yesterday, I'm going to try to get them all signed. I'm failing. And now I've got to, and that's going to be worse. There's only so many hours. There's only so many hours between now and one o'clock when I'm supposed to go do this. And we've got to do the picks podcast later. We've got your show. I got a lot of work. I got a lot of work to do. Good. I got a lot of work to do by one o'clock. Well, I'll make sure I'm a little late for the podcast, because that should irritate you a little and throw off your schedule and piss you off. Sorry, London. You know what I might do? I might just bring a box up here. And while we're doing the podcast, this side and side and side. That's great. People will love that. Sure. I think I have about 270 still to do. So I did get, I did get a lot done yesterday, but not nearly as many as I needed to. So that's what my morning is going to be like. The next hour and 50 minutes is going to be like this. We're going to talk football and we've got a Thursday night game to discuss. Oh, and it's a good one. At least it is and you never know how it's going to turn out. The nine and three Green Bay Packers, nine and three by your third place in the NFC North, facing the 11 and one Detroit lines at Ford Field, a very impactful game as it relates to the overall playoff picture in the NFC and specifically the NFC North, the Vikings just get to sit back with their popcorn and say, Hey, this is pretty good. Either way, either way, either way, we're tied for first or yeah, good. Right. Yeah, we're either going to be a position to tie for first or we get a little separation from those pesky Packers who I think are better, frankly, than the Vikings. I have them higher, I believe in the no, I don't have them higher than the Vikings. No, you got to want right behind me to behind, right? Yeah. So this is significant and adding to the drama. The lions are taken on water. They've had a lot of defensive injuries and and they they I don't think like they we I think we talked about this the other day. It's not that they should have lost to the Bears last Thursday. They should have gone to overtime against the bats, right? The Chiefs should have lost to the Raiders. Yeah, the Lions should have gone to overtime with the Bears and who knows what would happen in overtime. Yeah, I mean, you know, a little a little wobbly, right? Last week, just because the way the game finished, the injuries, you talked about that. I think you and I in our agreement, this is something I know I've tried to say on a number of outlets throughout the year. I think Green Bay's football team is as talented as anybody in the sport. In fact, I'm not sure they're not more talented than the Green Bay Packers. Now, they're a little younger and immature in certain areas and they got a new decordinator that they're really just settling in with. So there's some of that. And then a young quarterback who we know has kind of been up and down. Like I've said all year, the impressive thing about the Green Bay Packers is just sitting there nine and three with a quarterback that's played B minus football. But that's how damn good they are. And when he plays better than B minus football, like we saw on Thanksgiving night, then they become a juggernaut, they become a team where you go, Oh, watch out. Oh, they're a team that can mess with the heavyweights and football, whether it be Detroit, Philadelphia, Buffalo, whoever. I think they're they're that quality of a football team. And you said it. I mean, Detroit, we know awesome. Number one team in the sport got everything. All of that certainly. But I think there's two things that's fair to question about Detroit. And let's not forget this time last year, it was, you know, a week prior to this, Green Bay kind of went on fire and Jordan love caught on fire. And he looked good last week. So does this continue? And then you talked about the defensive injuries. How can that not scare you tonight? That's big. And I think it's fair to question. I know the Detroit D is good, but I'm just not sure it's as good as maybe it's statistically ranked or we think it is. That's the what I will say a little bit. They've been fortunate to play some offenses that have not been very good. The schedule is shook out in a way where it's been beneficial that way. And I think this will be one of their toughest tests they've had all year here because Green Bay's playing a lot better now than they were, you know, a few weeks ago, a month ago when they played prior. Yeah, they got together early this year, week nine, Green Bay lost at home 24 to 14. The Lions have won five of the last six against the package. This is a series Green Bay use to dominate. Dominate. There was like a stretch of 20 years, 25 years, something like that where the Lions hadn't won at Lambo Field. They've won the last three at Lambo Field. It all started on that that final night of the regular season 2022. Remember, it was winning in for the Green Bay Packers. The Lions had nothing by that point to gain. They had that big kick down the stretch after they started poorly, but they were eliminated. I think the Seahawks won and that eliminated the Lions, but they still went out there and they beat the Packers and they they made Aaron Rodgers and loser in his last game ever at Lambo Field. So the Lions have gotten the better of that series in recent years. And yeah, look, it's at home, they're going to be tough to beat at home. One of the toughest places there is. Right. It's incredible. But the Packers go there every year. The Packers go there every single year. That's why I've said all year long. The Lions don't want the Packers, the Vikings or the Rams showing up. And I don't think they're going to be able to avoid all three teams. I think that they're going to see at least one of those teams in the playoffs. And that's the thing to keep in mind here. This is just another chapter that is going to culminate potentially in the Lions and the Packers getting together again. Round three is coming. Even the Lions win tonight. It feels like round three is coming. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you're the Lions, I think it's one of those where you hope that Philadelphia and Green Bay got to play in the divisional round. So you don't have to play both of them. Right. That's what you really hope and hope. But yeah, these are two teams that are capable of going to the Super Bowl. The talents there, the coaching's there. They're creative on offense. They got guys that can make plays. Hey, this is another. I mean, it's the number two offense in football to Detroit Lions. Number three is the Green Bay Packers. And again, I will say that's even more oppressive with the fact that Jordan Love has not played all that great this year. I think that speaks to how damn good Green Bay is. Detroit's defense. Number 10 in football. Green Bay. Number 12 in football. I mean, the matchup is as even as it gets. But the big thing is, is the injuries you've talked about. Green Bay being a little desperate. You know, if they want to win the division, this is a game tonight where you kind of got to win it. It's kind of must win for that aspect of it aspect of this. If you want to play a first round home football game, that's where it's big certainly. And Mike, I bring up Detroit because like, like they're D and what I've, you know, you've heard me talk about it. I mad respect to Aaron Glenn. And I think his coaching has overcome a lot of the obstacles with no aid in Hutchinson, who's clearly their best front seven player and being creative and coverage and blitzes and all of that. So they're really good and all that. But when you look at, let's just say from October on, I mean, when you really look at them other than the Minnesota Vikings, I'd go, there's not an offense they played that I would look at to go. That's a top notch offense in football. They got tested, right? Green Bay would be that one, but it was a cold day. It was a little sloppy. Jordan loved through some dumb interceptions. He threw the screen pass, picked six, right? He was kind of going through a weird period. So that's where I kind of canceled that out. But that's what I'm excited to see with Detroit tonight between the injuries and not being tested. I don't think fully what have they got against this Green Bay offense that I expect to be pretty damn good and on their game tonight. Well, and again, the Detroit Leaf defense is banged up. Man. You see, there's three members of the defense out tonight. Taylor Decker also out with a knee injury. The Packers have some injuries as well. No Romeo Dobbs, no Jair Alexander. But for me, and look, I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but this is something we haven't talked about yet. When I saw on Sunday, and I wonder if they deliberately did this on Sunday, so it wouldn't create much news and attract much attention. They added Jamal Adams to the practice squad. Yeah, yeah. Like, you know, Jamal Adams has been a headache for the Jets. He's been a headache for the Seahawks. He didn't last very long with the Tennessee Titans this year. It just seems to me like they're really rolling the dice that they can speak to the better angels of Jamal Adams. And, and I know from talking to people over the years, it's not that he's a bad guy. He's just just malcontent at times. Yeah. And just hard to get through to. Right. And, you know, wasn't happy with the Jets. And Seattle gave him, gave him a fresh start and gave him a big contract. And remember last year, there was stuff where he was like getting into it with a reporter and he like, it made fun of a reporter. Yeah, the Jets, right? And then, and that was defiant about it. Like, it was just, it was just, it was just, it doesn't seem to fit with what the Lions are trying to do. I hear you. That's my point. I hear you. It seems like they're taking a risk here. And maybe they're so desperate for competent, warm bodies that they're looking the other way on what it is they're, they're trying to build and they're willing to run the risk of somebody who maybe doesn't fit what they're trying to do. That was alarming to me. I hear you. The Lions did that. They're going to trust their culture. He doesn't seem to mesh. They're going to trust their culture to fix him rather than they think he's going to come in and mess up their culture. That's what they're betting on. And I would bet that bet is right. I hear what you're saying. It is a little risky. But I think your warm body's common is really, I think, the fact of the matter, right? Where there's not only so many players out there on the street, let alone the ones that are out there. Can you really, if they had a play, can you trust them and feel like they could play and do something and function at a level that you expect to? That's where it gets tough this time of the year. There's limited options. So you might go, hey, this guy, he's a better guy. He fits us, but this guy, not a great guy, but like, okay, wait, he's a better player. And if we got to play, we can trust him. So that's what they went with. And yeah, I hear the risk there, but they got, they got issues. And that's what's going to be big about tonight. There's going to be pressure on the Green Bay. I mean, the Detroit offense, I think, right, to an extent that they haven't felt maybe because man, those D linemen, they're missing. And of course, they're already missing Aidan Hutchinson and other guys as well, where you're talking about the Green Bay offense, the Green Bay run game. You've heard me talk about it a lot on football night in America. I'd put it up there with anybody in football when it's purely give the ball to the running back run game. You take quarterback design run out of it. These are two of the best teams in football, in my opinion, and bringing that to the table. I know Lamar and the Ravens and Philadelphia are really good running teams too. But the quarterback run has a lot to do with that and scrambling. These guys are we will impose our will and go downhill on you the old traditional old-fashioned way. And that's what you got to be worried about with Detroit tonight, with all those bodies you just talked about, Mike. And now you got Josh Jacobs coming down, who's shown he is, you know, missed a few games, but offense a player of the year type quality play. That's scary for the Detroit D tonight. One last thing on tomorrow, Adam, he is a great player. He has a great pedigree. Right. It was a two-time second team all-pro, a first team all-pro in 2019, three-time pro bowler. Things kind of fell off because of injury. He plays with a level of reckless abandon. Exactly right. That's a compliment. Yeah. He plays with a level of reckless abandon that gets him injured. He's out there with no regard for his health or well-being. I mean, if he's healthy, he can really be a great player. But the issues, the problem that he can be from a standpoint of just and I don't know, who knows if it's intentional? Who knows if it's malicious? He's just, you know, he's high-intensity, high-energy. You said it, right? He got upset with the Jets because they weren't very good, but I also know from folks who were with the Jets at the time, they tried everything they could and they just got exasperated. There was just nothing they could do to get him on board with what they were trying to do. And I think he exasperated Pete Carroll eventually. Yeah. And it didn't last very long with the Tennessee Titans and it might have been he showed up and he realized this team isn't very good and he wasn't afraid to say so. Yeah, but who knows? That's just a wild answer. I hear you. Think about the lines running game. Yeah. Like they're the only team that's got two guys who, if you would separate them, could be star number one, four baller elsewhere. Right, right. And they don't, and they don't fall victim to skewing one way or the other. It feels like both guys get their full compliment on a regular basis. Yeah. I remember when it was work done and Mike all start in Tampa. It never felt like both guys got a full bite. Right. At the Apple, unless one of them was injured. But they do a nice job of making sure Dave Montgomery and Jamir Gibbs both get their chances in that Detroit off. Yeah, definitely. They do. I mean, they let them go extended periods of time to where they can get in a groove running the ball. I think that's the thing that you're talking about in Tampa where it was like, Hey, works in a few plays now. It's all thought nobody seems to really get in the flow or a rhythm of the football game and kind of impose their will. And oh, okay, that's what the contact feels like today. And you get used to the movement of the defenders to, you know, break them down and make them a miss you and all that. And then of course their ability to stay on the field and score points and do all that allows them to just really open the vault with the plays that they have. But you're right about that, Mike. And I will say, you know, Montgomery is a hell of a player. I do sit there in some games and go, damn, they should give the ball to Jamir Gibbs more. They're trying to save them. I get that. But Jamir Gibbs is he's one of the most explosive players in the NFL right now in the open field as a running back. And there's like space and only limited defenders. I mean, Jamir Gibbs is hit the hit the tier or the classification of like special guys like a Saquan Barkley where you go. Oh, he's out there in space. See you later. I don't care who's there to tackle him one on one. They ain't gonna tackle him. He has gotten to that, that, you know, stratosphere as far as a player. And then of course they got other guys off that and their play action pass game off that is, of course, extremely effective. That's where I'm excited for the game tonight. These two teams, neither one of them is looking to dink and dunk or we just want two yards up the middle or three yard throw here. Both of them go when we run the ball, we're expecting to get a 50 yard gain. We're trying to gas you. And then when we pass the ball, we're going to fake the run and we're going to try to get a 50 yard gain. We are going to try to gas you. We are not looking for the four yard underneath, check down Aaron Rodgers, New York Jets offense. And that's what's going to be fun about tonight too. You're going to see the ball travel through the air to some playmakers down the field that could do some stuff with the ball as well. This is an amazing stat as it relates to the David Montgomery, Jimmy, you're sharing of duties. Last week, yeah, Montgomery had 21 carries for 88 yards. Gibbs had nine carries for 87. That's what I mean. See that there's a few carries every game with Montgomery where I go. Oh, like if that was Jimmy or Gibbs, that's another 40 yard, another 40 yard game. But again, the sonic and knuckles, they work well together. There's a physical element and the speed element. There is an adjustment for that as far as defense and getting ready to tackle that guy and all that. But man, yeah, to your point, man, I mean, Jimmy or Gibbs is a really special player. Doesn't it seem like if it was just the Jamir Gibbs show, he really would be if he stays healthy? Yes. He'd be up there in that conversation with best running back in the NFL. 100%. I mean, I just had their stats up because he's got 900 yards, 973 and three less carries. Montgomery's got 720. Right. So I mean, you know, what is that? That's that's 1740 rushing there. You got to think, yes, if Jamir Gibbs got the got a bulk of Montgomery's carries that he would be up there in the conversation for best running back in football, offensive player, maybe even MVP. He's that and that's the struggle for the running back. It is, do I want to blow it out and be the man and just absolutely be an all star all pro for a few years? Or do I want to share it with somebody else to extend my career and make some more money? And that's the balance the player and the team has to figure out what they want to do. And obviously Detroit's taking the latter in that situation. But the reality is at some point in his career, he will be the guy. Yeah, right. And and it could be awesome. And you know, he's got he's not going to make it before the season. Almond Ross St. Brown said that he'll buy anything Jamir Gibbs wants if he has a thousand yards rushing and a thousand yards receiving. Right. He's got 973. Yeah, that's a no brainer. Right. But he's got he's only got 245 receiving yards. So maybe 282 actually. Yeah. So maybe, maybe Almond Ross, when he when he saw that Gibbs was off to a good start, maybe he went to golf and said, don't throw him the ball. Save me some money because because Gibbs said I'm going to break his bank. I might get a house and only three guys have ever done that. Roger Craig Marshall Falk and Christian McCaffrey, a thousand yards rushing and a thousand yards receiving is very rare. But you feel like in the right offense, Gibbs could do it. Yeah, he's he's that kind of guy. He he certainly is. He's a weapon in the past game in the run game. Yeah, I'd put him up there. But I think I only say go on Barkley is as far as like explosive runners and football. I think they're in a class of their own as far as guys who I can score from anywhere at any time. That's what they are. They're anywhere anytime guys. By the way, Jared Goff over the past three games has been the anti Akirka cousins. Cousins has no touchdown passes, six interceptions the last three games. Goff has six touchdown passes, no interceptions the last three games. I never would have guessed. I never would have imagined that golf would be in that snapshot side-by-side with cousins would be at the other end of that spectrum. But that's where we are. And Ross has been spectacularly shoot. The MVP talk has died down in recent weeks, which is surprising because of the lines of the number one seed he's going to be one of the first names we look at. He's going to be one of the first guys who gets scrutinized at the Lions hold the number one seed. I just feel like there's been more sizzle with some of these other guys. It's really nothing. When you watch golf play, it's not, I mean, it's not wowing. It's not eye-popping. Yeah. Right. Right. You're not running around. He's not, he's not making these sidearm major clothes. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. He's not, he's not doing that. Well, you got to appreciate Jared Goff as his ability to stand in the pocket with pressure around him and still deliver the ball. He's an aggressive decision maker and within being an aggressive decision maker and how you're explaining it right now, he takes care of the football. And that's a rare town to be going, Hey, I drop back and I look for throws like this down the middle all game long and I don't throw interceptions. And there, there's a fine line there and a gift and an artistry about that. And that's where Jared Goff is a completely different player than he used to be in with the Rams or and of course they transformed him there in Detroit. But their ability to do some of that stuff and push the ball down the field and then the run game and then, Oh, here's a screen pass to Amun Rase Brown. Like we talk about with all great offenses, they make you defend the whole field. And between Detroit, their talent, their physicality, Ben Johnson is creative as they get. We see trick plays every week and all of that kind of stuff. Man, they're, they're a handful and Green Bay answers right back. And Mike, the best thing about this game I think tonight, right? We talk a lot about Thursday night games because they only got really three days to prepare. This is a different one. This is a full week to prepare. I think it's going to lead to better quality football. I do. I think you're going to see a little bit more on the offensive side of the ball than we normally see on a Thursday night because it's a normal schedule. They got a full time to do their breakdowns, be creative and do all that. And that's another aspect that I think makes the game awesome tonight. I'm pumped to watch it. I really am. The NFL started doing that six, seven years ago where they would take two of the six Thanksgiving teams and their game against each other falls exactly one week after Thanksgiving. I like it. It had been Dallas involved right in that Thursday night game. And sorry, Jerry, the line. They said they had enough thing this year. We got enough of how about them Cowboys. We want to see some Detroit Lions in prime time on Thursday night against the Green Bay Packers. The Lions are only favored by three and a half points, which tells you how good the Packers are because you think at home, Lions 11 and one, you think it would be a little bit more of a margin right, but the Packers are capable of keeping it close. It's all the more reason to just pray that you don't have to have a repeat of this game in the division around at the playoffs or the NFC champion. Yeah, no, it's, it's, it's, it's got, it's got superstars everywhere, right? You got two quarterbacks that are capable of a lot. And I should have explained this earlier and Pete got in my ear and thank you, Pete is right. I mean, Jordan Love was banged up too, right? So he's only had a few weeks here of going, wait, I'm totally healthy. I'm totally myself. And when he was playing this Detroit game, this was a week where I don't think he practiced all week and then he played and we talked about that a lot of the time. He's not the kind of guy that can do that, right? He needs the reps obviously and be it a young guy that hasn't had a ton of experience. I get that. Some guys are like that. But you see here, I mean, the damn guy is capable of making eye popping throws and another guy just like Jared Goff, where they're not looking to run or do anything. He wants to stand in the pocket and deliver it down the field for big time throws, big time plays. And that's why they're, they're fun to watch. But, but yeah, Jordan Love, I'm hoping he gets on a hot streak here and gets going because he'll make things interesting on the NFC between these two teams and what they do. And of course, come play off time. If he's hitting on all cylinders, man, it'd be awesome to have Philly, Detroit and the Packers all be kind of heavyweight contenders where you go. They can win the Super Bowl and they're going to have to play each other in the playoffs here. We were talking earlier about avoiding the Packers if possible, trying to get the Packers and the Eagles to play each other sooner than later. And you think about how this is playing out on the seating. The lower the seed, like if the Eagles are the two seed, the lines are the one seed. And I doubt that there's a way the Packers fall all the way to the seventh seed. But that would be the best possible outcome for the Lions that have the Packers fall behind the commanders and force the Packers to go to Philadelphia right out of the gates. Oh, yeah. Knock out one of those two teams right out of the gates. Then maybe you get lucky and the next week the other team gets knocked out and you don't have to face either the Eagles or the Packers in the division around or the conference championship. Yeah, I hear you there. I mean, that that would be ideal for Detroit. Look how top heavy. Look how top heavy the left column. It's incredible. It's incredible. We're going to have a year here. We can have a year here. All three wild card teams are better than two of the division winners. No, we're in a way where I know this is like a pet peeve of yours and some other people out there. But we're in a year here where it could be a 14 and three or 13 and four Minnesota and Green Bay teams on the road versus Seattle and Atlanta who are 500 or, you know, nine and eight or eight and nine. I mean, it really could be that. It could be that this year and that's going to make people mad and others going to be the conversation about, Oh, if you win your division, should you get a home playoff game and all that? And I get it. But yeah, this is going to have, I think maybe some odd looks as far as record matchups come that first wild card weekend when you go, wait, that team's at home and they're eight, nine or nine and eight versus the team that has a home field advantage type of record. Yeah, it won't look right. We're going to, we could get to potentially have two in the NFC. Yeah, yeah, those not one. Every once in a while, there's one and people are like, Oh, they have to change this rule. This year, there could be two and Pete makes a good point. If the Packers do fall to seven and go to Philly and beat the Eagles, then the Packers would go to Detroit for the division around because yeah, there'd be the lowest seat remaining, right? Yeah. But if the Eagles would knock out the Packers and then somebody gets the Eagles next week, that's how the Lions avoid playing either team in the conference championship game or in the division around. So yeah, and they're never going to change that rule. That's the thing. I've been upset about it in the past and argued about it, but someone explained it to me at some point. The owners are never going to make that go away because they all benefit individually from the one out of four possibility in every given year of hosting a playoff. Yeah, sure. Small division, all you have to do is win the division and you host a playoff game. There's more money in hosting a playoff game. You don't have to be great. You can be nine and eight. You can be eight and nine. Hell, maybe you could be seven and 10 and host a playoff game. That's the thing that will keep it from ever changing. Yeah, no, it probably, it probably won't ever change. And I really, in my heart, I don't think it should. Yeah, this year is kind of a weird year, you know, an asterisk type of year that you put next to it and go that. But you know, I do think you should be rewarded for winning your division and having that home game. I like it the way it is. It's a great system. So, but yeah, it's not perfect. And this is this is going to be a year that's going to kind of expose that. It definitely is. But we've seen plenty of teams. It doesn't matter. Well, I mean, again, we just we just saw it last year. You don't have to have the first round by or any of that or anything like that. You could go to the Super Bowl. We see it more now than ever. I feel like as far as teams that are wildcard teams that go to the Super Bowl, win the Super Bowl might not be happening as much as we saw or as much as we saw earlier in the 2010s and all that. But still very, very real possibility. And we saw the Chiefs by the wildcard weekend last year and hosted Dolphins and then go on their runs. So we'll see. It's going to be a good, interesting race in the NFC and Detroit and Green Bay are going to continue to lead that charge. And there's just a lot of good players on both sides of the football in this matchup. Two things though. First of all, there is a certain arbitrary element to this idea that you're assigned division and you could be a powerhouse. But if there's another team in the division that's more of a powerhouse, it doesn't matter if you're better than every other team in the conference from the other three divisions. You're stuck behind this powerhouse. The Packers at nine and three would be leading two other divisions. The Vikings would be leading two other divisions. And again, the commanders would be leading two other divisions. So there is an element of just kind of like random and you're stuck. And these are the divisions you're assigned to. But that's part of the, the intrigue of being in a division, right? You constantly have to battle with your division rivals and you have to overcome them and you play them six total times over the course of a year. The other thing I wanted to say, you give me a flashback. Yeah. To the episode of Everybody Loves Raymond when Raymond goes on TV for the first time and then afterward Deborah is going over all the words he's gotten wrong. And one of them was asterisk. Yeah, asterisk, asterisk, not asterisk, but asterisk. Yes. Sorry. Yeah. I didn't come out clean. I knew, I knew that that challenge lag might have been thrown and we might have to go to video review on that word there. So yeah, sorry about that. It doesn't fall off my tongue easily. That one. Yeah, there were a few others. I can't remember what they were. But he, he. Well, thank you right them down next time. Keep track. Come on. Hurry. You know, come on. No, no, not from you. From the, from the show, the show, kind of a, they gave, they like complimented him and ended up being a disaster. And I think he went back and it was even worse. I can't remember. I probably need to wash it again. I think it's on peacock. I think it is on peacock as our carry on is an edge of your seat action thriller that follows a young TSA agent who's blackmailed into an impossible situation at the height of Christmas Eve travel pandemonium. Either let a dangerous package slip through security and risk the lives of many or save the passengers and risk the life of his pregnant girlfriend. Starring Taren Edgerton, Sophia Carson and Jason Bateman carry on is a holiday thrill ride with nail biting nonstop action and suspense. Watch carry on only on Netflix December 13th rated PG 13. The holiday season is here and it's the perfect time for family gatherings and celebrating with plenty of delicious food. If you're the kind of person who loves not only preparing meals, but also watching cooking shows, reading cookbooks and listening to music while you cook Amazon Prime has you covered. It brings all of these experiences together making your holidays much easier and enjoyable with Amazon Prime. You can get one day free delivery on tens of millions of eligible items. So everything you need arrives just in time. Imagine having your recipe books on hand right when you need them plus exciting cooking shows and music with prime video and Amazon music all included in your membership. Whatever you're into or getting into it's on prime. Sign up for Amazon Prime today from streaming to shopping. It's on prime. Visit amazon.com/prime to get more of whatever you're into. Hey I'm Ryan Reynolds at Mint Mobile. We like to do the opposite of what Big Wireless does. They charge you a lot. We charge you a little. So naturally when they announced they'd be raising their prices due to inflation, we decided to deflate our prices due to not hating you. That's right. We're cutting the price of Mint Unlimited from $30 a month to just $15 a month. Give it a try at mintmobile.com/switch. $45 up from payment equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first three month plan only. Taxes and fees extra. Speed slower above 40 gigabytes detail. So there's some information up there on the board that caused people to say hey you know you're potentially giving away some of our stuff, some of our secrets. I can't even begin to tell what that might be. Here's Dan Campbell from Saturday and Tuesday and also Ben Johnson, the offensive coordinator on Jameer Gibbs, putting protections. These are protections that are showing up on social media. Is that something we need to just remind a player to be smart about with their posts on social media? Is there anything, you know, look at who's there? I believe Gibbs posted a photo of Jefferson with a bunch of, you know, lingo on the whiteboard and the running back room behind him. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, I needed a second on that then. I did not know that. Yeah, I'd rather our stuff not be out there. I know what it is, but I'm like, you know what, we might as well just put everything out there. I don't really give a crap. I mean, if we're going to lose because of code words, then we're not good enough anyway. So I think we'll just post the whole freaking playbook out there and every code word we've got. And it's it doesn't matter. It's not going to hurt us. It won't affect us. And it's all good. Listen, it's all out there. And you can find any and everything that you need on the tape and and how to attack people, how they're going to attack you. And no, I'm listen, I'm not losing sleep over that. Now do I want us posting stuff up and from our locker room or our players or whatever? No, I don't because, you know, you don't know what's going to happen with something like that. But but no, in the grand scheme, it's not a big deal. You guys thought about maybe we wanted them out there. So now we know what they know. Oh, you'll get on. Well done. Well done. That's that's a far more artful way of dealing with it than Dan Campbell did. Dan Campbell was kind of going serenity now on Tuesday because they're in a damn thing he can do about it. Put it all out there, put the whole playbook out there to which every other team would say, please do. Obviously there's an advantage. Obviously it creates an edge and what the Lions have to do now. And it's not that. Look, if the Lions are smart, they, they will, they will get ahead of this and they will fix it. But that's just more stuff they have to do. They're lucky they had a whole week to get ready for this game. And it isn't a true short week game because if they're smart, they're going to go back and scrap all that and come up with something new and hope they can maybe dupe someone into thinking that those, those do mean what they say they mean. But that's just a lot more work for someone this week that they weren't otherwise anticipating like signing 500 books. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Well, you did that to yourself. So eat it. Okay. All right. But then as far as they're concerned, I think some of this is overblown though. I do. And listen, I'm not saying all of it, but I do think it's a little overblown in the fact that, okay, oh, I saw that on their, their, their board and all that. And then we're going to talk about, okay, all right, so Green Bay Packer defense, it's going to be, hey, this guy shipped here, this guy motioned here. Oh, hey, wait, he said the word stutter. You guys know what that means. It's the stutter play. Everybody like that's not really what's going to happen. They can't process that and do all that and get everybody on a new defense or change it or all that. Now with, with some of this, right, you see plays, the signals can be the one thing that can be definitely detrimental that where now Detroit is going to have to go back and let's, you know, let's just say, and I can't read of it, but whatever some of those words, code words, whatever they may be, yeah, they're going to have to go back to the lab there and change some of those. But I bet you they already have substitute words for some of those plays and coded words anyway, right? In my history of these type of moments in offense, we didn't have just one code word that meant, you know, do this route. We, we usually had built up three or four through the year, right, that we could go to that all meant the same thing. But yeah, you see some of these here, right? Karate belt, 63631 kick, right? If they see that, okay, I don't know what the play is again, right? So that's the other part of this too, where Green Bay would be able to go, Oh, well, wait, the Karate bill is a 630 kick. Okay, well, they're gonna have to figure out what the hell the kick is and go back and watch film and then go, Oh, okay, wait, there's the belt signal. Now we know what kick is. It's going to be a lot of work for them to decipher all this as well. And at times, when you know stuff like this, it can hurt the defense where you start to think, Oh, I know their codes. I know this. I'm going to jump this and all of a sudden they have a word or a signal that was similar to something else you saw. Oh, no, I thought it was that play because it was, you know, this signal, but he did this instead. And I thought it was the same thing. And now I guessed on the other play and oh shit, they ran it the other way, right? So I do think it can be overblown. Some of the coded words and signals, though, and they can put a few together there. That's where Detroit will have to be careful and maybe change them or change some of the words. I look at it this way. Yeah, what would Bill Belichick do if he had this gift fall out of the sky? What would he do? Yeah, he definitely would go through some time and go. So let's go see if we can. He would be doing this anyways, right? That that's that's the beauty of Bill Belichick. He'd be doing this. Now he just go, Oh, wait, I actually have a few like just in my face there. But I mean, Bill is famous for calling up TV copies from the video department of a game because Oh, I remember he checked this in, you know, 1994. And let's hear if we can hear on the TV copy what he was saying to hear what the coded word was or whatever, right? They're famous for that. You remember the old story? Remember, like the old NFL films thing, Joe Montana, black 58 razor, black. Remember how they used to do that? Like some of the NFL films, the opening of the show, right? When Green Bay played in the New England Patriots in the Super Bowl that year, Brett Favre, he went to black 58 razor on the first play of the game and through the post down the middle, the Andre Badmoo's rise. And you remember that? I mean, the Patriots, that was Belichick and Parcells. They knew the audible. I know they lost their heads in that moment going, we told them if he says that, they're going to throw that as good. Like they were all over it. And that was disappointing for them. But yeah, to your point, there's some stuff to be gained there. And yeah, Belichick would be all over it anyways. Well, as Pete mentioned, this is Ernie Adams stuff. Yeah, that's right. That's right. You know, going over in practice prior to Super Bowl 49, the exact play that the Seahawks used at the goal line where Malcolm Butler was in position to make the game deciding interception. And he struggled in the walkthrough, but they coached it up just right. And when it happened, they knew what was coming. Brandon Browner kept Jermaine curse from getting through to pick Malcolm Butler and Butler was in position to intercept the ball. So that's just the high level stuff. And you've added ammunition and fodder for teams that embrace that and have the capacity to process. I guess that's what it really comes down to. Yeah, right. Do you have the internal infrastructure to process that on top of everything else you're doing? Because the clock is ticking. That's right. You got to be careful. Right. Right. Can you take that and make it into something useful? Bella, check wood. How many other coaching staffs out there will? But the challenge I think for the Lions is to try to take that and turn it into a positive. Yeah. The Ben Johnson. How do you know we didn't want that out there? That was perfect. Yes. That was perfect. And to me, frankly, as much as I love Dan Campbell, that juxtaposition tells me Ben Johnson is going to be a pretty damn head, a good head coach. Even though it's going to be a different style, he's going to be a pretty damn good head coach. Yeah. No, I think so too. I mean, obviously he can orchestrate some offense and be creative and trickier and do all that stuff. Dan Campbell's a little different. That was perfect for Dan Campbell. That's who he is. We'll tell you the play and we're still going to mess you up and run the ball, do exactly what we want. Yeah. But he got caught flat footed on Saturday. That was great. It was actually great to see him. And then he looked over to the side like one of the media guys and he like, "Hey, we got to talk to Gibbs here." Right. Right. You tell me. But there's a lot there. There certainly is. It's going to be interesting tonight because I'm sure Kirk Herb Street now Michaels will get into this topic. We'll see if they can orchestrate it. You're right. It's hard. It's not easy. It definitely is not. And I was only a part of one game in my life where I felt like the team knew the signals and calls. I played Ray Lewis and Zach Thomas. They could tell with formations and stuff and how a lineman might have put his hand on the ground or whatever, they'd be like, "Oh, they're running here." Right. So that was always scary. But when I played New England, the only time I was a starting quarterback in 2005, we went there to your point with Belichick. We made calls at the line of scrimmage and they knew what they meant. And it was like, "Oh shit, I'm about to say said hunt." And they know exactly what we're doing. I mean, that's really what it was. I mean, it was incredible. Right. I'd be underneath the center. We'd have two plays called in the huddle with a check or whatever. And I'd go, "Oh, they're showing this. I got them. I'm going to check to this." And they'd be like, "Well, no, he's checking to it. Get over to the other side and blitz the other way." And then I'd get crushed in the back or whatever. But hey, it's all about the infrastructure. Like you said, you can't put too much on the Packers defensive guys' minds with these calls and all that. Maybe if you can just steal two or three plays or moments from this, that's what I think you do if you're Green Bay because you can't wire your middle linebacker to remember calls and plays for the Detroit Lions all game long. Did you ever think in the moment during that 2005 game against the Patriots that they somehow acquired the information through inappropriate means? Yes. 100%. When the game was over and I was sitting there and my junk was Lakers' colors. I was going, that was the same game. Right. So, yeah, it was the same. No wonder they were Lakers' colors. I mean, yeah, they knew the damn plays. But I was member sitting on the bus going, "Man, I've never been a part of a game like that where I had so many calls and Teddy Bruski knew exactly what I was doing." And then I started to think like, "Oh, man." And as time went on, I didn't think of this right away, but as time went on, I started to hear stories. And that's where I started to go. You know, Belichick, there was always stories about they miked the defense alignment, right? They miked the defense alignment. So then if they played you again the next year or whatever, they had the recording of what the quarterback was saying on play too when he was doing a lot of stuff at the line of scrimmage. And yeah, that certainly came to my mind in the weeks after that game that that might have gone down there. Now, we don't want to have to surrender ownership of the PFT Live platform at the Pro Football Talk website to Robert Kraft. So let's just make sure we're clear on this. It was never proven that there were microphones embedded in the pads of the defensive lineman. But that was one of the urban legends back in time after Spygate when everybody started to come up with all the different ways they must be cheating because if they're surreptitiously recording the hand signals on the sideline that they're sending out to the defensive players before there was a speaker in the helmet of the defensive player to dispense with that and then matching it up. And the second time you would see a team, they would have the code cracked. Everybody started coming up with anything and everything. So when Spygate happens in 2007, when you hear about that, is your attitude? Is your attitude like, okay, yeah, I'm not surprised. Yeah, I think someone that was going on in the NFL in general, right? I do. I think it was there. I think that maybe New England took took it to another level. And then I think the fact that Bill is like one of the smartest human beings on the planet, he knew that there was not exactly direct language that sometimes directly talked to this specific type of stuff in the rule book. And I think that's where Bill was a genius too. And that's where, yeah, he took liberties. And yeah, I think there was thoughts there of like John Gruden, the Raiders were a rival of the Patriots in the, you know, the snow game and the tuck rule game and all of that. And it feels like, and I had the urban legends were always that it went back to those days. Because like, Belichick was like, Whoa, this grew in offense. They do a lot. They do a lot of the line of scrimmage or signals everywhere, blah, blah, blah. You know, let's put the mic on the defense alignment. Here's some of these calls and what they're doing. That was allegedly, you know, the urban legend out there certainly. Well, whatever they did, yeah, permissible or impermissible legal or illegal under the rules, it worked on that day in 2005. Let's go ahead and take a break. When we return, a final ruling on the Aziz al-Shire suspension and his reaction to the news that he will indeed serve three games out of the lineup, but it used to text that's next here on PFT live. Carry on is an edge of your seat action thriller that follows a young TSA agent who's blackmailed into an impossible situation at the height of Christmas Eve travel pandemonium. Either let a dangerous package slip through security and risk the lives of many or save the passengers and risk the life of his pregnant girlfriend. Starring Taren Edgerton, Sophia Carson and Jason Bateman carry on is a holiday thrill ride with nail biting nonstop action and suspense. Watch Carry on only on Netflix December 13th rated PG 13. The holiday season is here and it's the perfect time for family gatherings and celebrating with plenty of delicious food. If you're the kind of person who loves not only preparing meals, but also watching cooking shows, reading cookbooks and listening to music while you cook Amazon Prime has you covered. It brings all of these experiences together, making your holidays much easier and enjoyable. With Amazon Prime, you can get one day free delivery on tens of millions of eligible items, so everything you need arrives just in time. Imagine having your recipe books on hand right when you need them, plus exciting cooking shows and music with Prime Video and Amazon Music, all included in your membership. Whatever you're into or getting into, it's on Prime. Sign up for Amazon Prime today from streaming to shopping. It's on Prime. Visit amazon.com/prime to get more of whatever you're into. [BLANK_AUDIO]
Hour 1: Mike Florio (@ProFootballTalk) and Chris Simms (@CSimmsQB) preview Thursday Night Football: Packers at Lions and they react to Jahmyr Gibbs' post of the whiteboard in the Lions running back room.