[MUSIC] >> Right on left pitch, Isabelle bounces it to third. Picked up by IKF, rose across his body and it's dropped by Guerrero at first. Massey around third, they'll come into score. [MUSIC] IKF made the tough part of the play and it just wasn't squeezed over at first page, that'll be an error on Vladimir Guerrero Junior. >> Haven't really looked at it closely yet, just checking on KK. But yeah, I mean, mistakes happen, errors are gonna happen. Just an opportune time obviously, but I haven't looked at that closely. He's a good first baseman, you know what I mean? I think it was just a bad time obviously, but no, didn't talk to him about it. [MUSIC] >> I mean, what's to say? Fan Morning Show Sportsnet 590, the fan, Ben and his bread gunning, good morning. >> Yeah, hilarious, yeah, good morning to you as well. >> Yeah, no, it's only like game defining error and it's like, don't want to look too closely at it, then I'd have to have something to say about it. Heaven forbid I look too closely at this critical crux of the game I just managed. Good God, I'm not even like Mr. John Schneider, a noise me guy, I get more irked by the humanizing stuff where he's like, I love to have a beer, that's always the one that irks me. >> Yeah, I hate a guy that would have a beer. >> No, I don't, I love to have a beer. But I hate being like, hey, we're all mad at you and him going, I love to have a beer. And that's supposed to like endear me or something, I just nice me want a beer. >> Agreed, agreed, and now, God, how are we supposed to do it work for the next three hours here? >> The more they go, you know, go great with my coffee as a beer, I don't disagree. >> [LAUGH] >> Okay, let's just move on. But yeah, like the Schneider, God, I don't even want to get mad at Schneider, I'm supposed to be mad at Plattie, but just hearing the, I didn't talk about him. He's a great first baseman, let's laugh about it. What answer is that? And I understand, like it is 162, it is every day. It can't always be fire and brimstone, but I don't know, man. Could you have a little fire or a little brimstone at least? My God. >> Yeah, it stopped because the Blue Jays have been playing well. And they have a good defense and that's a play, it's a weird one, it's a bizarre one. I would say, okay, here's what I was thinking. So professional athletes are so good at their respective sports. And it's so different from the way we play it. >> And freakishly good. >> Like it's, I always say golf is one of the best spectator sports because so many people play golf. >> Yeah, and to get as close as you are able to get to professional golfers. And just to see how different they are than you and me and how straight they hit it and how far they hit it, it's unbelievable. I wonder if catching a baseball is the most like doable thing for the average athlete, like the person that plays sports, right? It's like, I could never finish like Austin Matthews did in game two in Boston. I could never block a shot. I could never play goalie in the NHL. I mean, is there anything about hockey that I could do on the level of an NHL player? I don't know. >> I mean, you can, you can. >> You could block a shot. You could lie there and you won, buddy. >> I could do it once. >> Yeah. >> Just like in this business. You could do anything once. >> Can we win? >> [LAUGH] >> It doesn't matter. >> I wonder. >> You lost in that instance. >> I'm clear. >> I wonder just like catching a baseball. Like the one the Vladimir Guerrero Jr. had to yesterday and it wasn't just catching a baseball. It's like the part of it was the footwork, right? >> Yeah. >> It was eloquently described by Joe Siddle. >> Yeah. >> And that was part of it not extending fully. But just catching a baseball. Is that the thing that most like just a normal athlete, someone that plays like slow pitch softball? Is that the thing you could most do? Because it's nothing but the bad. It's not laying down a bunch. >> Yeah. >> I'm telling you, you cannot bond. >> No. >> Major league pitching. >> God, no. >> But it might just be catching a baseball. >> Also, there's few things I would like to watch more than the people who do have few risks that they could get down a bunch. >> Oh my God. >> Try to. >> Like, and I'm sorry if this offends any listeners out there, there'd be a lot of Kyle's in the mix that love monster energy. I just feel like those guys in particular are very, very confident in that regard. >> Sounds like Kyle Busch like NASCAR drivers, sponsored by monster energy. >> Yeah, almost certainly. >> Yeah. >> And it's always, it's just always hilarious that, and Tiger Woods, like, yeah, all the monster and NASCAR guys and Tiger. But yeah, you're right. And the more I think about it, it's like people play hockey into their, like, God, like anybody who's been part of like a older guy's skate, it's like, there's always a guy and it's like, is he going to stop playing hockey or die first? I don't know which one, but the answer is probably the same day is probably how the, but with baseball, it's like, the first base thing is the most replicatable again. It's not like, it's not IKF snapping one across the diamond in the footwear, but you're right. It's, I mean, God, like, if you had free throw would be the one. It's not making a shot or a three pointer in NBA game because you have, like, seven quarters running at you and you have a few of them. Try running around for 10 minutes as hard as you can in a full sweat and then stop on a dime and then try shooting. Like that's, it's not a jump shot in a game, but like free throw and Rudy Gobert is poking around there somewhere as well. Just like, take that into account as well. Now free throw, you're right, but I also, I don't know, like, hey, maybe this is unfair and not that like, shoot it, like, not that like going and playing basketball, getting some shots up isn't a tenant of it, but like, it's just like such a tenant of, like, being a sports kid, playing catch, having a catch with your dad, you know, all that stuff. So yeah, you're right. And I do think there is some element of that, you know, we go to NFL playoffs and the guy drops a pass over the middle. It's like, well, there's almost, almost, almost certainly a lot going on there. But baseball, again, it's like, it's oversimplification for sure, but just stand there for space. It does, it does allow the mind to get incredibly frustrated. It's his first error of the season. It's a guy that actually, factually won a gold glove, which maybe in retrospect needs to be reevaluated. But you know, he's at times shown as he had one go through the glove yet this year, you know? He happened like twice in the same season. I want to say, yeah, was it last year or a couple of years ago? Anyways, yeah, that's, I mean, who didn't think that's exactly what happened on that play initially. Mm-hmm. Right? It gets a piece of the glove, but then you have to wonder why big glove hits flatty so much. There's a lot to get to from that game. First of all, I just want to preface it with this. Like I do, that's obviously the game. When you give up three unearned runs, all of them as the result of a play not made that's as simple as that one with two outs in the fifth inning, it's hard not to look at that as the reason why you lost the baseball game. They also only scored two runs, right? But this is the nature of the style of game the Blue Jays are playing right now. The offense eventually you would think you would hope is going to be better than this. Maybe not. But this is what the offense is now and you're getting incredible pitching now, which means that you can't be making outs on the base pass, which means you have to play a clean game, which means you have to be good defensively, which they've been for the most part. But when it doesn't happen and it's three unearned runs in a 3-2 baseball game, sorry, that's the talking point. And everybody knows it. There's no shying away from it. Vladimir Guerrero Jr. faced the music and it is baseball and you play every day and not every play is going to be made. Errors happen. Mistakes happen. That's not like a lack of focus or lack of details. That's just an error error, but yeah, it does open up a black box of a Vladimir Guerrero Jr conversation, which I want to have. Yeah, it's also like, okay, let's not talk about the error. What happened to the plate? Was that any better? Oh, oh, for five. Okay. So like that's the other part of this. And you're right. It's one game and did the Blue Jays lose that game single handedly because of Vlad. No, there are plenty of other guys who came up with men on base and they could have came up with a big knock at various times. I'm not taking the blame away from Vlad. Two for 10 with runners in scoring position 10 runners left on base and Vladi only came up five times. Only five of those could have been could have been his fault. So I think that, yeah, there's a, I actually think that this is being handled in terms of like fan base reaction pretty fairly. It's like, yeah, no one's sitting here. Like me being mad about it to start the show is way more about Schneider's reaction than it is Vladimir Guerrero Jr. making that error. It's like these things happen. You can't have it happen in that spot and it was incredibly costly. And hey, Blue Jays miss the playoffs by a game. This will certainly be one of the flash points that I'll think back to at least. But yeah, I do think it also does allow you to use it as an on ramp to a way bigger Vladi conversation. >> Yeah, so let's take the micro out of it, the yesterday out of it, which is just, it's just one game and he'll have plenty of opportunities to change it up the narrative at least of the season. I think offensively him being off to a slow start, I think at the absolute worst, he's a much better hitter than this, this season. But the discourse is growing online and it's mostly fomented by a sports app producer Chris Black, who's had like a number of tweets of Vladimir Guerrero Jr. of the last couple of days fighting the good fight, if you will. >> I mean, depends on who you ask. >> Yeah, but sure. >> No, to someone. But the Guerrero family, no doubt, they think it's the good fight. So yeah, Vladimir Guerrero Jr. hasn't been an abysmal player since he stepped on to the field to play. I would say he has underwhelmed outside of the 2021 season. Is the discourse around Vladimir Guerrero, like a lot of guys are struggling on this team. >> Yeah. >> But Shad is struggling on this team. >> Yeah. >> George Springer struggled even more than Vlad he did last season. And those concerns are carrying over into this season, Alejandro Kirk struggling this season. Lots of guys are struggling this season. Is it unfair that Vladimir Guerrero Jr. receives I think the lion's share of the ire from this fan base? >> No. >> Want me to say again? >> No. >> It's not fair? >> No, sorry, no. It is not unfair. It is completely warranted. I know he didn't ask to be put on them. But last time I checked, he is still, and I see them every day when I'm driving home on the gardener. It's like I know he's not the only guy on the billboards or flags or everyone to call them outside of Rogers Center. It's like still one of the first guys to put forward in every commercial. He is still whether even the team is pushing it as much as they used to the face of this team. The expectations he came up with, yeah, him and Bo were tied at the hip, but they weren't. We can say they were, and it was like this is part of the Blue Jays new generation. But Vladimir Guerrero was the crown jewel of it. He always was. You go back to the series in Montreal and yeah, part of it's the lineage there. But we're not so excited to see Boba Shet hit a home run there. Expectations begat more expectations. And you know, like to me, if I want to go to the loftiest of people with this, it's the most impressive thing LeBron James ever did was just live up to the expectations set forward as LeBron James. I didn't put those expectations on flatty. We put pretty lofty ones of borderline Hall of Fame or MVP candidate. But then he also did that early on in his career. And he is, you know, I know money is a little different in baseball and that it's not a hard caps. We don't think of it in exactly the same way. He also makes nearly $20 million a year and won his arbitration case. So is it fair to think of Vladimir Guerrero Jr. as a guy who should be the face of baseball and perennial MVP candidate? Maybe now it's not. But we also can't forget the expectations that the player came in with. And I also think it's only human nature to keep those there when you've seen a little glimpse of it at the professional level as well. So no, I think the expectations for flatty are wholly fair in my opinion. I think the conversation has evolved though too. This is not like a one season thing. Um, okay, out of the gate, like, I was on record as saying, boy, that was kind of under Wellman considering this is a player that for the first time in scouting history had an 80 grade hit tool coming out of minor league baseball. Let's say that again. I think people like over here are over or misunderstand like the understate how highly touted a prospect he was. Yeah, the only guy is a zero to this or whatever 30 to 70, 70, yeah, whatever 70 is supposed to be the highest grade you can get on a skill. If you're a major league scout, he got an 80, 80s skill hitting. And the minor league numbers were, it was like, Oh, well, he's playing T ball. I mean, I get it's the minor leagues, but you know, the best prospects in the sport don't put up the numbers he was putting up throughout his brief minor league career and then he came out of the gates and he was fine. And like he was by 123 games at an OPS of 772 and I said, okay, that's fine for a guy getting his feet wet at the major league level. But for me, like slightly disappointing, like I'm not, I'm not screaming from the rooftops. And then he had a slight improvement year two, but it's 2020 with 60 game season with the 791 OPS and you're like, okay, whatever. I don't know what to glean from that and then 2021 happens, right? As I finally he has arrived and at the time I was a little bit curious as to the numbers in those minor league ballparks, artifacts, yeah, the other 2022 honestly, like, and now especially what's happened since in retrospect, 2022 was really good, like really good and underratedly good, right? Like this is a guy that hit 32 home runs had a 340 on base, 818 OPS. He was 33% above league average when it came to OPS. He won a gold glove. He got MVP votes that's that season and part of that was like he was on people's radar because of the 2021 that he had finished 16th in MVP voting is pretty good at that point. I don't think I said I was disappointed at this at that point, I was like, that's that's pretty good. It's not maybe what we expected, but that's a very acceptable season from a team's best hitter. Last season to me just to me changed everything. Yeah, Vladimir Guru Jr. was actively bad last season. I don't care. I don't care that he was a 17% above league average when it came to OPS in a 788 OPS. He didn't hit a home run at home until late June. He had 26 home runs. He played first base and he didn't play it well, okay, you know who agrees with me? Numbers. He had that always one in baseball is a great part of a since the start of last season. So that does include the near month of play that we have this season. Vladimir Guru Jr. amongst qualified hitters has the 32nd worst war according to fan graphs over that span. So yeah, he is getting paid to a degree and you're right or I'm right, I'm right. So right then. Other guys are underperforming including Boba Shepherd, but you know what Boba Shepherd has done? He's been consistent contributor like, well, I think I feel confident in saying by the end of the season, you can pencil in Boba Shepherd for north of 800 OPS and be amongst the league leaders. If not the league leader, every time he's finished a season healthy, he's been the league leader in the American League and hits. Feel good about saying that plus the offensive bar is lower for him considering the position he plays shortstop. You can find first baseman fall off trees like Daniel Volgabock in a pinch can play first base for you, not well, but maybe he makes the play that Vlad makes yesterday. Yeah. Honestly, last season changed everything for me. It has been slightly disappointing, especially considering the hype, realizing his potential just once in 2021. That's what the money is for. That's what the name is for. That's what spending a lifetime in baseball is for. There is there is no problem from my end. People strongly criticizing what is supposed to be the face of your franchise. God, I'm not again. This isn't even like a hobby horse of mine. There have been people in this market, people who are no longer in this market who love to make this point. This is why we can never have the like is Toronto a hard market conversation. It's like the guy's supposed to be the face of the franchise and listen to every number. You just laid out. It wouldn't be the face of the A's or I don't know, pick your, the white socks, pick your sad sack franchise right now. That guy wouldn't be what you'd want to hail up as the face of that. If we're going to talk about expectations and perception, I think this has to go into it as well. I know there if you're somebody who, well, I mean, I do think what I'm about to lay out here is a little bit of a weather vane. Like if you're somebody who thinks the criticism's unfair, you're going to say, well, that shouldn't go into it. But if you think the criticism's fair, you're going to say it's all part of it. Is that when you are like, we're just going to do the Beau-Vlady comparison there. When you're pope of shit and you're perennially mad, you just wake up kind of aggrieved every day and every loss seems to sit with you in a way that looks like you care. And this isn't to say, Vlad, he doesn't care. I guarantee you he does. But when you are the more happy, go lucky, yuck it up on the bench guy and things don't go well. I think people just automatically go to, why does it not look like the other guy when you're struggling? Could you not care more? And I don't think that's the recipe. Like I don't think Vlad going and sitting in Aaron Rodgers' darkness cave is the recipe back to him being the best version of himself. But I also think we're just going to talk about perception. And specifically with those two guys, you can ignore that part of it either. The one Bechette is going through it. He looks like he's going through it. And Vlad certainly wears his struggles at times. But that's also part of what makes Vlad Vlad is that he doesn't. And I think that goes into the perception and the way these guys are talked about and perceived as well. >> Yeah, maybe. I mean, not maybe. There's definitely a section of sports fans that feel that way when there are guys in Saskatchewan every day screaming in their combine, I don't even know how they're doing it because they're listening on the radio, but they're like, God, quit smiling. >> I mean, I have two thoughts on that. One is that different strokes for different folks. I don't think Vladimir Guro Jr. can realize or feels that he can realize his potential if he's Mr. Super Serious Dower all the time, like needs to play the game with joy. And I'm down with that. Look pretty joyous in 2021 and secondarily, this guy's play every day. Like it's. >> You have to be who you are. You do. I believe that. >> It is such a grind. Like, I know it's not the same as people who have normal jobs. I get it. But yeah. Because it's an everyday thing. And if you come to the ballpark every day miserable or wearing your past struggles, it's really, I'm sure very difficult to get over them and have future success. I mean, but if we are talking about things that are unquantifiable, there is an element to that as well. And sometimes it can be, you can correct your eyeball test by looking at the numbers and you're like, God, this guy, it feels like this guy stinks. And then you look at the numbers, like, it's just like I happen to catch a bad game or like I'm not like, yeah, my preconceived notions are overwhelming me here. >> Well, that doesn't happen to you, but like mere mortals among us, you know. >> Yeah. And that's why I think it's important to take both. But yeah, I mean, just go with your gut and ask yourself how you feel in a big moment. >> Yeah. >> It's just, it's not, and you mentioned the other guys among the top, like, okay, we'll remove Turner, he's this like found money, old man, free agent. He doesn't count among the trio you're talking about there, but it's like Springer is completely removed from this as well. You paid an aging free agent. What did you think it was gonna look like? And that's not to say he's completely absolved. That's not to say we won't have George Springer shows. >> No, George Springer is a different conversation. >> It's a summer, but it's a very, very different conversation. You knew what you were getting. You knew that there was gonna be at worst, sorry, at best, a slightly lesser version of the player kind of year over year, tracking towards the tail end of it. So yeah, when you look at those three guys and, hey man, maybe Varsho, not that this would help Ladi at all, but it's like he is now kind of slowly becoming the fourth kind of pill, not slowly, it's like he's immediately burst to do it, but it's a matter of how much do you buy it, how sustainable is it kind of thing. But yeah, I do wonder how that changes the perception as well, and a little spoiler alert. It's not good. Generally speaking, another guy coming in and passing him on the death chart of Blue J's bats, you trust, it's not a good thing for the way he's perceived. >> I mean, Spinzone is again, like he's not gonna be this bad all season long. So there's improvement to come, and at least he's taking his walks, and the Blue J's are still winning baseball games, although not yesterday, despite the fact that Kevin Gossman without his best fastball, although he did hit 97, 90, I thought I saw 98 on occasion. The fastball percentage though, super low, let's give credit to Chris Black who tweeted this out, Kevin Gossman only threw 39 fastballs tonight as fastball usage in April winds up at 46%. That's the lowest fastball usage in any month in his big league career and saw some of the post game from Gossman who said, yeah, I'm kind of out of whack still, it's why my fastball command is struggling at times. I don't think it's necessarily the velocity, but this is a guy at his best. And boy, I'm thinking about his first ever start in a Blue J's uniform coming off the Jose burials, lasting one third of an inning, and he started game two of that season. It's like Blue J's was like, just get us some depth here. And I just remember him filling the zone, excuse me, filling the zone in game two of the season, a couple of seasons ago. This guy at his best, yeah, obviously the splitter, he gets swing and miss, but he's able to get swing and miss because he's able to paint the corners with upper 90s fastball. And it just, he looks like a guy that's not quite there yet with his fastball. It's impressive though that he's able to get through a royals lineup that's, they're not the white Sox, like that's pretty good offense. And obviously Bobby with Junior is a star on the rise, very much able to do that without his best stuff. He's still not back to the level that we've seen him where he, you feel super confident about him striking out eight or so over six or seven, but yeah, he steps in the right direction, I guess. Yeah, I think with Gosman, it's absolutely building blocks there. I pulled it up only Pearson through a faster pitch than him in the game last night. And they both, I mean, Pearson topped out at 99, but Pearson and Gosman's next fastest pitches were both just a, just a hair under 97. So you like to see that from him. I think that you like to see the way he has been able to battle and game, just be a gamer throughout this stretch. I don't think that surprises anybody, give them what we know about Gosman. But I also, when you watch a start like that from him, where again, you have to tip your cap at how he was able to find a way, but that's not one a Kevin Gosman. Where would this team be without Jose burrios? And it's not shot in the foot dead because they've had plenty of other quality starting pitchers, but that's not nice, like what you saw at a Gosman. The ability to battle was, but the stuff that was not at the peak of his powers and you need burrios to be that guy. The other thing I was thinking about with the pitching here is and, you know, there's no reason why I would expect it to fall off a cliff, but the longer the rotation and the pen collectively are able to do this, the harder it's going to be not to look at what one more heaven forbid, two more bats would do to this team. I mean, it's a tale as old as time, but you just, you have the rotation you have and you have a pen that feels like, and, you know, it's a long season, I'm sure it's a very different conversation a month from now, but the pen feels like it needs no tweaks. It feels like you'd go out and get a guy cause that's what you do, but you're not sitting there going, oh, you need your setup, man. You need your closer. How different does this team look if they just add one more dangerous bat in there and it's, it's kind of scary what, what you think that could do to the potential for this team and how much does that kind of ratchet up the pressure on the front office to do something? Yeah, it's April. So that conversation, we're not having that like until July, but yeah, it's, I mean, it was the number one topic of conversation this off season. There could be a guy on the way because Kevin Kiermeyer departed this game with a flexor injury. If he lands on the aisle, it's very easy for me to imagine Addison Barger getting the call up and then playing some corner out field in Dalton Varshall, full time center fielder. All those guys, Barger, Martinez, Spencer Horowitz, killing it in AAA right now, Dalton Varshall, another extra base hit yesterday. You mentioned him rising up the confidence rankings. At this point, I mean, there's, there's, I guess Justin Turner continuing his, his strong start. I have two guys. I have two guys. If it's not, how do I, you said the batting order, but it's just, Hey, you can, it's like the old, like, Stugats from Levittart show, magic and bad idea to give the bat to anybody for a spot. I think I have Varshall third right now in terms of confidence ranking. Really? Who was ahead of him? It's Turner and who else? It's Turner and Beshed. And it's the, like, this is the, this is what we just talked about. Not right now. It's like, I, I think, like, right, I suppose, like, right in this very instance of we're playing a baseball game at 626 in the morning, yes. But it's like, if you told me it was going to be like sometime in the next week, I, it's still a shot. Like there's just then this is what we talked about for the first 20 minutes of the show. The historical track record, and you just have faith. But yeah, I suppose in this fleeting moment, right this very second, it would be, he'd be second. I think Turner's the only guy I have in front of him just because you're, have so much confidence the Turner's going to give you, at worst, a good AB. Yeah, the, the bottom of the lineup right now looks so anemic. I don't, if you were game planning as the Blue Jays, I don't know how you don't walk Dalton Varshow four times a game right now again. And this is, hey, I got all the faith in the world that David Schneider is, is a viable major league area. And how dare you? Yesterday got hit by a pitch as well, but it's, it's, it's hard to imagine being afraid of the, the bottom half of this Blue Jays line up the way it's constructed. Last thing for me on this game, I didn't see an explanation as to why in a game where you were trailing by a single run with the tying run on, on base and the eighth inning against the right handed pitcher, Daniel Volgobock was not summoned to hit for Isaiah Kiner-Philippa. I, I'd like to, to hear, I mean, Ernie Clement was still on the bench to come in as a defensive replacement for Volgobock, Volgobock hasn't hit a home run. He's, he's taking a bunch of walks. His role was unclear at the time considering he's a full-time DH and the Blue Jays already have a full-time DH, but one area that we thought for sure, he's going to be utilized is a latent game as a pinch hitter for one of those guys that are glove first, no bad guys. And Ernie Clement has, has exceeded offensively. You know what? Isaiah Kiner-Philippa has been fine too, but I think we know who those players are. And if you don't think Daniel Volgobock is a better offensive player than Isaiah Kiner-Philippa than he absolutely shouldn't be on this team, why is he here if not to pinch hit in that moment in the eighth inning? Like that, we just never see that guy. We see a lot of him on the broadcast because he is a half-able dude. Yeah. God, he's a funny looking dude, he's like, he's got like, he kind of looks like a cartoon character. He does. But he's also supposed to be a contributor and Blue just have this habit of the 26 man just being like a mascot, somebody that serves no utility, whether it's Nathan Lucas or Bradley Zimmer. It's like, oh, you know what would be cool? Like, and there have been spots that have come up and you're like, you know what would have been cool? A guy that like provided something and I guess Zimmer was a defensive replacement? But it looks like they're doing it again and Daniel Volgobock could in theory provide you with something seemed like a pretty key moment in the baseball game yesterday where he didn't appear. He does feel like the character on like an old school sitcom that come, it's like the friend of one of the children and he's there like every fourth episode. The audience like, ooh, Daniel Volgobock in the building. Yeah. It is odd the way they haven't used him. I mean, part of it is performance and it's such small sample sizes, but it's like you mentioned it. Yeah, Clementa's run into one, but if you're not going to use them, then find somebody else to put in that spot that could provincially provide some utility. And I mean, I mean that in the term utility don't have it be a super specific role that can only be helped in this one spot because I think they've had that and they clearly don't feel there's a need for it. I don't know if that's a lack of trust in Volgobock. I know that it's that IKF is maybe, I mean, part of its expectations being the literal floor has exceeded somewhat what you would have expected offensively. But yeah, I'm with you. I thought there was a obvious spot for him, but this is part of the problem. The Blue Jays are in with their kind of crop of, you know, the barge or types. You don't want to bring them up here to just sit and be the 26 man and not be in the mix and get him playing time. Spencer Horowitz has been a little different. I do I do think he is he's the one of that if you're talking about Horowitz Martinez and Barger there, he feels a little different that you'd be willing to, you know, for like a better term, like sacrifice him by just hitting him there. Well, I mean, he's done that. Like he's been that guy and I'm sure he'd be the rilled to do to, you know, but he's time clock. He's he's a different player than Volgobock ever. I mean, everybody in baseball is a different player than Daniel Volgobock. But yeah, he doesn't have the home run power and of the three guys in Buffalo, he's the guy that has the fewest home runs. I don't even know if he's hit one this season. Horowitz, whereas Barger and Martinez are banging baseballs out of the ballpark. But yeah, if you're just if you're going to have a guy that wants to that on occasion, and it's a very rare occasion, going to give you a good at bat against a right handed picture and is actually capable of playing some defense at first base because Volgobock, I don't think he's worn a glove in a baseball game for the Blue Jays this season, non batting edition should clarify. Yeah, I get if we're going to do this like why and you spent real money on Volgobock. It's only two million bucks in sports, but dude, you've converted it away. I would have taken it. Yeah, you're you converted his minor league deal into a major league one and in a situation where you told us it was money and money out. Anyways, confusing to say the least, Blue Jays with a chance to secure at least the series split tonight in game three, the four game series. When we come back, it's Toronto Maple Leafs game day, Austin Matthews returning home after being the sole reason that this series is tied up in Wands. We'll get into Leafs Bruins game three tonight. As the fan morning show continues, Ben and his friend gunning Sportsnet 590, the fan. Hey, it's Aelish for a Fire. And I'm Justin Cuthbury. Join us as we discuss the most important sports stories of the day and tee up the biggest games of the night. It's the fan pregame, 6 p.m. weekdays on Sportsnet Sportsnet 590, the fan and wherever you get your podcasts. They're playing a really good playoff type game right now. You knew they would. They're built different than in the past years. They're playing a lot more physical, very committed to more checking, playing very tight and so that it gives them credit. They're one of the top teams for a reason. And then when you add their offense ability on top of that, they're a tough team to put right now and we're seeing it even in the first game. It was a different game in the score so we have to continue to be better. It's a very tight playoff series so we knew it was going to be a battle and they showed up. They're playing for keeps. Fan Morning Show Sportsnet 590, the fan, Ben and his friend, Gunning. That was Brad Marsh and do you think that's exactly what he told Tyler Bertuzzi at the end of game two? He's like, you guys are playing for keeps good for you. Well done. I can't wait to respect you in the handshake line no matter who's on what side of it. There'll be a lot of respect both ways. Yeah, I think that's probably what he was getting at. I mean, I guess there's only one thing you can say if you're Brad Marsh and you're asked about the Toronto Maple Leafs, but yeah, okay, I don't know what he is. And I know the players like, you know, this is the whole thing, it's like they're supposed to be mentally strong, not me. I did spend too much time thinking about if he was like reverse jujitsuing us. I'm like, is he trying to start a Brad for Living Kyle Dubas war here with like, I don't know, this team is tough and they used to not be. I'm just like, what is he trying to do? Because it's something Brad Marsh on, it's always a game to him. And I don't say that in light of the conversation we just had, I don't say that say it, he doesn't take it seriously. It's all gamesmanship. There's always something. I don't think he just answers a question that's put in front of him. So I did think it was odd. Maybe he is just give it his unvarnished thoughts, but it's all the game within the game at this time of year. And I thought that that was a, it's like, I can't figure out what he's trying to do with it because it did just sound like he was telling the truth about the Leafs. Yeah, he sounded a lot like John Cooper, though, like it was a lot of like, man, how can we pressures all on them? Yeah, they're just so good. And they're so much different than years previous. I mean, you saw him four times during the regular season, I don't recall similar conversations being had and no similar utterances from you. Is it just because you lost a hockey game? And I think last time we heard him talking at least during a game about the Leafs, it was you're, you're all dead. You're, you're all dead. You're dead. Well, specifically all dead. Mitch Marner, he was going to murder and cold blood. Yeah. Who will get? He just sucked his soul out. Who knows? All right. Game three tonight from Scotia Bank Arena. All right. Leafs one and five at home in the postseason last year. Awesome. Matthew is also okay. He 39 of his 69 goals during the regular season coming at home, but he hasn't scored in seven straight home playoff games. Do we think there's something to the home thing in the playoffs specifically last season? This is the first sample we get this year, but it was, it was very noteworthy. Last year, you're having home ice advantage against the lightning and then losing all your home games against the Florida Panthers. Is there something to the Leafs at home struggling at least last postseason at home? I think the Leafs feed off the crowd. I think that goes without saying. I think you, man, like we've all talked about, it's like how great the crowds have been and win a peg, how great they were in Vancouver, how good they were in Edmonton. And not the least crowds aren't great, but we also can't pretend that the Leafs haven't watched more pain in the last half decade than all those fan base of experience going back to their like last cup drought or the last time they they lost. Like there's just been a lot of pain and I think when things are going well, the team can thrive and feed off of that. And the fact that they won that last game, that building is going to be jacked up. I don't think it's going to be a super tight and nervous building to start the game. If the first shot of the game goes in, I think it's going to feel very differently. I think this is a team that completely feeds off of the energy and the crowd. And I think unlike a lot of fan bases where look like there's nervous Nellies in every fan base that's going, Oh, no, what's going to happen? Oh, they're going to lose. But all these other fan bases, it's just, it's exciting. It's the time or you're so confident or you're the Rangers and you're so confident you're supposed to take care of business against a cap team or you're so confident that you're supposed to take care of business if you're the hurricanes against the Niles team. The Leafs crowds just have this and rightfully so air of one's the other shoe going to drop about them. And I think that's why it's so huge to have one, not that you wouldn't know, wanted to have won both. But if you had to pick, it's massive that they won game two and you're coming in here off of a win and that Matthews performance and everything. Because I think the crowd takes a completely different tenor than if the first two games of the series were flipped. Yeah, you're probably right. Um, yeah, if the Leafs are coming home after a five one loss in which Ilya Sampsonov didn't look so great and the specialty teams were horrific and again, like we're talking about it. It wasn't so bad. They were 50% on the penalty killing game two and they scored up power play goals. Like what an incredible revelation on special teams. It's all fixed. But yeah, they're riding the momentum of one of the signature goals of the early part of Austin Matthews postseason career. There's also the Sheldon Keith of it. Okay, so they're coming home. I think largely the tinkering has been left to a minimum. He hasn't touched the Bertuzzi Domi Matthews top line and hard to tinker when you've got, I mean, who knows exactly how many, but 12 ish healthy forwards, right? Yeah. So are you where are you on the anxiety level of like Sheldon Keith, finally dipping into his bag and saying, I, I, you enjoyed Austin Matthews doing his thing in game two time for me to do my thing in game through. I'll be coaching over here. We all know why these people took out second mortgages to be here tonight. And it's to watch me get the blender going. I think the answer to that is directly tied to the Swedish gentleman by way of Calgary, Alberta. We've been talking about all playoffs long. If William Newlander is available, I think you are way or sorry. I'm sorry. I just found myself using leaf lane, which he's always available, I guess, or a possibility or whatever. If William Newlander plays in the hockey game, I think you see tinkering Sheldon tenfold tonight because it's, well, what version of Neelander is there? And do you want to protect him? Do you want to keep him in a sheltered role? And then occasionally, whoo, end of period or offensive zone draw, get him out there with the big boys? I think that if Neelander's in this game tonight, you see Keith, there's very much a possibility of him overcomplicating things and getting in his own head and trying to find the right match because we don't know what that is because there's no way William Newlander, I mean, maybe you feel differently about this. There's no way William Newlander plays tonight and he's just 100% William Newlander and he's flying around all over. I think it's going to be a slightly diminished version of the player. If you do see him tonight, that's going to impact the way Keith goes about it. So I actually think the best case for Keith just stick him with what's worked to a certain extent and some of its work, some of it has and is not having a shiny new toy and a guy that he has to kind of find the right spot for in William Newlander. All right, let's do the new Neelander thing here because we're not reporters, okay? I say that for like the Luke Foxes of the world, funny when people talk to me like I'm a journalist. It's not my job, okay? I did go to journalism school, but then veered very, see, you're very away from journalism. We're both, we're both like journalist-ish because you went to journalism school and I'm a part of the Gulf Journalists Association of Canada, but that's with golf, okay? Okay. So golf to be found here. All right, so you have to, you have to put on your big J hat when we talk golf, but like, so I'll take Smith. So they need some of me in there. They're like, all right, coward, get in here. All right, so we don't have any information that you don't have listener, okay? We don't wish we did. Oh god, imagine how good it would feel to be like, I was talking to some people. But, and if I did, and I was sworn to secrecy, you know, I have to keep it to myself, but I wouldn't say I didn't have any information, okay? So just know that I don't have any information. This is not, this is not based in anything. Where are you on William knee lander and his availability? Do you think he plays in the series? Do you think he plays tonight? I don't think he plays. I'm not ready to rule them out completely for the series, but I think if you see them, it's like a game six situation. I have had my fill of them pulling in cold Swedish forwards for do or die games. Allah, Andrea Johnson in the bubble against the jacket. So if he, if he's only ready for game seven, maybe we don't see him until the next round or until next season, I think if you see him, it's that I don't think there's any way he plays tonight. I mean, we had the Luke Fox thing about maybe there's a back brace under there. He looks super, you know, cumbered where not unencumbered, but cumbered when he's when he's skating out there, it does not look like a guy who's ready to go about it encumbered, incumbered. I'm sure that works too. This playoffs are taking toll on me. We haven't even had like the four OT game yet. They've already got death door barely had an overtime. I don't know. I just finally, but I look at it and I think that you're going to see a team that is throwing them out there and he's always a possibility. But if you see him, it's deep, deep in the series. I just don't think he plays tonight. You. Okay. So again, not based in anything, seeing the things that you're seeing, looking at the video that you're looking at, reading the people that you're reading, I he's done for post season. Like, I think it's over, over, over for William knee lander. Okay. I think all this is window dressing. All this is like trying to get the opposition to think about something. I think he's done so done so, like I just that everything we've heard about how things are done normally in the post season and who gets to skate on the ice, especially in the location of the game on the game day is that this is not normal procedure here. And if that's the case, if there was a true belief that he would be playing, like it's just the order of operations, the machinations, the normal protocols are not being followed by the main beliefs. They're they've been super secretive, which I guess is that is normal protocols. Yeah. But everything that surrounds William knee lander. And honestly, the fact that he did play all 82 and game number 82. And there was no indication that this was going to be a thing. And it was such a thing that he's forced out of a playoff game. Doesn't make me believe that that's disappearing in a couple of days. I think he's done. I think the only thing the Maple Leafs have done by or attempting to do by putting him on the ice in these optional skates is having the Bruins, at least for a second, think about game planning for William knee lander. I don't think he steps on to a postseason ice surface again. Man, the way you lay it out, I can't sit here and disagree with you. The only thing I would say to that is like the Bruins know all that as well, right? They understand that it's awkward as well. So does that not working? I don't I don't think that there is any wrong thing to be gleaned out of this. Like I think that is the thing that's the best about this is that you have no information. You can speculate about anything, but I also can be talked in to anything. It's the idea of games we feel differently about it after they split the series in Boston. I think this is obviously an eminently winnable series for the Leafs, even if William knee lander doesn't play in it. But I also think it's I don't think you can completely paper over that in a postseason or a post-mortem conversation. Like I'm very much of two minds of it. Like the Leafs have shown without new lander. Yeah, there's not to say there's no reason they should lose this series. Boston's a very good team and they're going to come punch the Leafs in the mouth tonight. Swamans going to be great and all that and we're going to be feeling a different way tomorrow, I think. But how much like how much does it color the conversation about this series with knee lander or not if knee lander is just a non part of it. Yeah, I mean, I don't think it. Maybe it's maybe this is a good question. All right, I think it's close actually. Okay, the Canucks have no Thatcher Demko for it feels like the rest of the series. Yep, the Channing Casey to some God. We believe in you Casey or whatever the champ was. Yeah, I get it was so funny. And then that's the first shot of the game. Kurt's moment in the Canucks playoff history one day burn their city to the ground. And Thatcher Demko has gone through long stretch this season where he was injured as well and they did to survive without him. But they also like coincide with the downturn in their record, right? Like he's been great for them. Yeah. All right, so I'll ask you before I answer. Who has the bigger excuse at the end of the postseason? It's not even close to the Canucks. It's like one of those guys. Remember, we don't call the position the potentially second line right winger. Like we don't we don't sit here and say, you know what you should call it? 10th leading scorer in the NHL. No, we say you should call it goalie. They're also playing an opponent that is more beatable than the Leafs are playing in the Bruins. And I'm not saying this the Bruins team is unbeatable. No, I'm saying right. Like the Predators are yeah, they had that incredible run to get into the postseason conversation. Who looks at that predator seems like there's a cup finalist? No, but they do look at it and say there's a consmite trophy winner at center. And there's a goalie that nobody would put their hand up to say, give me that in a playoff series. And he's not heliabuck by the way. What's going on with Connor? I was giving up like 11 goals in the first two games of that might have something to do with the opponent. They're very good. They're very good. But I think that Sorrows is one of those guys that you think he is like if he's not on your heliabuck, ottinger, schisterca, whatever your club is, he is right right there beneath it. And for me, he's part of that club. So I think that's the reason why I think I think there's a very specific path where Sorrows is great and the Canucks are okay. And they don't have their goalie where everyone's frustrated and everyone's mad and no one's saying like, Oh, this is acceptable. But it's very different than like the fire and brimstone that would be in that market if they had their goalie for that series. It's goalie. It's goalie, man. Yes. And I think also, I know despite the fact that it's weird, it's like, yeah, it's their return to the postseason after a long absence. They have like the bubble one. Yeah, which we don't really think about too much and that, yeah, this is the Leafs eight kick of the can in this era. I think changes things ever so slightly. Just a bit. Anyways, okay, if Neil Andrew does return for tonight's game and again, I'm on record, but love to be wrong with love to be wrong. It's just, it's a very curious situation. I'm on record that I want no answer about this until the middle of June. If he does return, where do you want to see him in this lineup? I want to see him on the third line, sorry, Nick Robertson in the Nick Robertson spot. And then that allows you the possibility depending on, and I know I said that this is the problem with Keith tinkering, but hey, man, like if you're a good coach, you can tinker a little bit without it getting away from you. I want him on that third line with with Holmberg and Yarnkrock. And then I think you can pop him up into the nice spot on occasion. If he's going, or if you feel like you really need to put your kind of gamebreakers on the ice, I think that makes all the sense in the world. Yeah, I think you start him in the nice spot. I think you load up that second line. I guess it's dependent on what like I'm sitting here being like, well, obviously shell of himself, well, you knew that or who could barely skate. I'm not putting him at my top six. It's all dependent on what you think you're getting from him, right? I mean, there's not the biggest sample size with the Pontus Holmberg. It is 1.100 minutes with Holmberg as his centerman. And again, I guess it depends on what version of her. You expect to get from knee lander. But boy, yeah, if he needs to be propped up, certainly Mitch Marner needs to be propped up. Maybe that's the reason to keep them apart. But I would like to think that yes, the star players would prop each other up and you would get the best versions of both of those dudes if in fact they were united with John Tavares as the centerman. We will find out in mere hours whether William knee lander will play. It's a night's game three at Scotia Bank arena. We'll talk more Leafs, obviously, throughout the rest of the program, including, and we'll talk about the front page of the trauma son's sports section today. Good job, guys. We spoke, we we willed it into existence. We said we wanted a good one. They could pitch away. Yeah, it didn't have to twist around. Well, maybe save that for eight o'clock. But when we come back, we'll talk to Red Olafwa TVA Sports discovering this series and he is in town. That's next as the fan morning show continues. Ben Anis, Brent Gunning, Sportsnet 590, the fan.
