VIEWPOINT with Chuck Crismier
"LEGAL" PERSECUTION
increasingly coming, Jesus' name. Amen. This is Viewpoint with attorney and author Chuck Chris Meine. Viewpoint is a one-hour open line talk show confronting the issues of America's heart and home. To express your Viewpoint, please call 804-754-1988. That's 804-754-1988. And now with today's edition of Viewpoint, here is Chuck Chris Meine. A Texas school teacher took an interest in starting a students for Christ's club but was told by the principal that the school doesn't have religious clubs. It is not allowed to have religious clubs versus city's independent school district rules. After being unable to start the club, she and fellow teachers participated in a "See You at the Pole" and were later reprimanded for praying. It resulted in a lawsuit. What should happen in a situation like this? In Texas, can you believe, yes, in Texas, trying to prevent a teacher from expressing her religious beliefs? And that's not all. In Seattle, a Christian was on public property twice during an abortion rally and during an LGBT fest and was reading his Bible. He was abused by the crowds, physically assaulted, his Bible was destroyed, and he was threatened. But police, instead of confronting those who actually were engaged in the criminal activity, told the man to move somewhere else and then arrested and took him into custody for declining. So he decided to sue the police in the city and the appellate court ruling now clears the way for an injunction against the defendants as his case proceeds. The courts agreed with him. In a speech provokes wrongful acts on the part of hecklers, the government must deal with those wrongful acts directly. It may not avoid doing so by suppressing the speech. Well, two cases today concerning Christians and a whole handful of cases with regard to what's happening not only at Columbia University, but all over the world as their rebellion and their anti-Semitism is stirring up an entire world of hatred against Jews. Today on viewpoint, we're forced again to deal with the issue of persecution and against Jews anti-Semitism. And our special guest joining us here today, Jeff King, has been with us before, but today he's joining us again to talk about this these matters that are just screaming in the face of not only Americans now, but all over the world. Jeff King is the president of International Christian Concern. He is well, International Christian Concern. We're going to let him tell us about what that particular organization is about, but he has been all over the world concerning these issues. According to one, he is the world's lead, one of the world's leading experts on religious freedom and has traveled to 70 plus countries been interviewed or quoted by most major media, including the New York Times Wall Street Journal, BBC, Fox Post, CBN, Fox News, and all of these things. And he's here to join us to talk about these issues today. Jeff, it's going to have you back on the program. Pleasure to be with you as always. Now, you had indicated to me that you are in Washington, D.C., our nation's capital. And I'm just concerned whether you have been affected by some sort of infectious disease, something affecting the mind that would somehow impair your ability to talk with us today. I'm trying to push through. I was born here. I've only spent probably a decade outside of the area, but somehow I am still able to carry on in life, but barely. And I would ask for everybody's prayer. Well, a little bit of humor amid some other very serious situations. And as you listen to these brief reviews of these two cases from Costa, well, actually from Texas then to Seattle, they're actually, what should we say, illustrative of a far greater number occurring all over the country, aren't they? They really are. And, you know, the Stacey Barber case, the CU at the Pole case is kind of a very normal case that we've seen wrestle through at the courts for decades now. But it's really, the local school board, the principal, should be a little smarter at this point. They're so far behind the times and they seem to not be able to grasp the Constitution. So only shocking in that regard. But this is a very normal kind of case, but the one in the Northwest and other ones like it that you're seeing in different Western countries where, you know, Christians show up and are silently praying or reading a Bible near an abortion clinic and are arrested. That is so egregious and that smacks of what's going on overseas. And then we have also the case in Finland where a long-time member of the Finnish parliament, a Christian woman, has been taken to court, criminally charged because she happened to have sent some sort of a Facebook or email or whatever it was posting concerning her concerns about the homosexual movement and transgenderism and so on. And so the Finnish government came after her, prosecuted her. They lost the first case. They came after again with the second case. They lost that one. Now they're after her a third time. It's as if everywhere in the Western world that was so-called Christian is now anti-Christian. What do you make of this? Well, and so that's Paivi Rassan and I know Paivi very well. It's actually even been a house cast. Is that right? Yeah. So she also has been affected by that Erin Washington DC. Yeah, she was named, she's been through Washington before. Yeah. So yeah, a fascinating case and it really highlights something that's going on and it's it's not even so much about Christianity, right? I mean Chuck, we'd say, look, this is this is about the foundation, the constitutional, what we would say, the constitutional freedoms that undergird democracy in our own country and in the West. And it's religious freedom, the lynchpin of all freedoms. And why is that? Because let's think about it. Religious freedom is a potent cocktail of freedom of speech, assembly, thought, conscience. It's, you know, it's the queen of the freedoms and it ties so many together. Well, it was called America's First Freedom. It's fascinating. We air from Richmond, Virginia, the birthplace of the nation right here on the shores of the James. And that is where the first freedom, first religious freedom statute was born. And interestingly, they have a so-called non-profit here called America's First Freedom. And you would think that it was all about protecting religious freedom. Actually, it's an organization that is dedicated against religious freedom. And it's just amazing. I was able to sit in on one of their meetings and was actually shocked that the choreographing of anti-religious feelings and sentiments there in an organization that supposedly is dedicated to religious freedom. And you've probably looked in there, by the way, where does the funding come? Any idea? Is there any one group behind a strong behind it? You know, I'm not quite sure where the funding comes from. That's, yeah. So this is what we're experiencing everywhere. Yeah, and with Paiba's case, I mean, it illustrates something that's going on. So what you see there, and this is, and by the way, the person persecuting her, we're going to use that term, is what we would call the head of the Justice Department and we can talk about what's going on. Alright, we'll be right back after this. Once upon a time, children couldn't pray and read their Bibles in school. Divourses were practically unknown as was child abuse. In our once great America virginity and chastity were popular virtues and homosexuality was an abomination. So what happened in just one generation? Hi, I'm Chuck Chris Mein. I urge you to join me daily on viewpoint where we discuss the most challenging issues touching our hearts and homes. Could America's morals slide relate to the fourth commandment? Listen to viewpoint on this radio station or anytime at save us dot o r g. The essential head of the Justice Department in Finland carrying on an open and notorious vendetta against a very relatively quiet and sincere Finnish parliament member of longstanding. How in the world can these things be taking place in our world at such a time as this? It's not just individual cases here and there. They're multiplying. Absolutely multiplying. It seems like there's a spirit of both religious persecution against Christians and a corresponding anti-Semitism that is multiplying rapidly, almost exploding in our faces, isn't it, Jeff? Yeah, I would say so and in Pivey's case, I think it's important to point out what's going on there and what the strategy is. So as you pointed out, you know, she this is a private social media tech she put out there, you know, as a citizen, not as a government employee. Right. And then, you know, and I'm calling her the head of the Justice Department, so it just makes sense for U.S. audiences. Head of Justice, Justice Department comes after six the police officers that do the crime here go get her and then the police are like scratching their heads when they interview her and like, well, there's no crime and then the Justice Department. Oh, yes, there is the rest or go through the courts, courts rejected, as you pointed out, go through a couple cycles. So what's clear then is that this this prosecutor is not interested in the law and it's the process, the persecution is the punishment. So they will drain her, they will drain her financially in terms of energy and in every different way and that is a clear message everybody keep your head down unless you want to be treated the same way. Isn't that the same spirit that's happening in the name of Justice in America? Yeah, it's a very common tactic and at the one hand, you're drilling way down right to the spiritual but it's a tactic and it's you know, it's not it's not lost on those who are doing it and employing it. They know what they're doing and it's just threatened and court, whatever we have to do but we're going to make sure everyone keeps their head down and this is this is really the methodology that you see overseas from the dictator of the despot. Oftentimes these attacks are coming in the name or being labeled political but underlying the political is actually the spiritual and the religious, isn't it? It is but and I would just let's just stay up on the political we could for one second. So and here's what else is making the rounds in the West is hate speech laws, right? Right. We're seeing that and essentially that's what you're seeing in Finland but in so many of these cases and hate speech laws, you know, were birthed overseas and you see them in Muslim countries and they're there a way to punish Christians primarily but you'll see it in India too and it's just a way to even if there's religious freedom on in the Constitution, it's a way to get around it. Well in India, they call them blasphemy laws. You bet. You bet. So in Pakistan, blasphemy laws. So but these hate speech laws are starting to be pushed here in the West and even in the Biden administration was trying to really push them forward through the Equality Act in a certain way, they were dismantling the religious protections we had with our speech and luckily that failed but they said we're gonna come back at this and break it up and send it through in a number of different ways but people I think Christians are kind of lost and we're naive, right? But these laws are not accidental, they're not misguided, they're strategic and these are what's happening is people of whatever viewpoint or political stripe gained power through the means of democracy and then absolutely undermined the democracy by saying certain speech is outlawed and if any Christian needs clarity on this, Chuck, I'd say this, there's such an easy way to look at this and understand it. Imagine a group of Christians in the United States that said we need to pass laws so that if anybody hurts our feelings, they can be fined or be imprisoned. Who's up for that? Let's push for that. Would any Christian you know, I'm sure there's somebody out there but would any Christian you know be behind that? It's ludicrous. No, but that's exactly what the Muslim group in America is trying to get the Justice Department to do even here. Absolutely, yeah, they've done it around the world, that's what they do in their home country. Yeah. And so what we need, that's fine because it's like let's have a fierce debate, let's bring this out into the open, let's see where the money is flowing, by the way, to what politicians from what Muslim groups. But it will not pass and if anything does pass, we need to stand up and we all need to start disobeying and do some civil disobedience in mass. All right, now that brings attention here and I'm glad you said it quite the way you did there because on the one hand, you know, Jesus said, blessed are they when you and men persecute you and revile you in say all manner of evil against you falsely for my sake, rejoice and be exceeding glad for greatest reward in heaven for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. So then if that be so, then why should we then rise up in legal animus against the enemies of religious freedom, why not just sit back and say, thank you Lord for blessing me so much with this persecution? Well, I'd say we render to Caesar, you know, what is his and this is we were given this freedom as a gift by the founders, right? And they told us you have to defend it fiercely and it's only good for moral and just people, which again means a couple things. We need to be involved in the political process and that's what protects the gospel in this country. So if you want to look at it through the religious lens, what protects our ability to share the gospel and bring people the life and to rescue the dead is the very rules of democracy. So if we don't get engaged in the process, if we don't start turning over tables and if we don't run for office starting with a dog catcher, I don't care what it is, get involved in the process, then we're leaving it up for the unrighteous to rule over us and to do as they see fed. So we need to be involved in the political process. This is it's a birthright and it's an absolute gift historically that you know didn't exist for 2000 years. You have to go way back to Athens and ancient Greece to see even the beginnings of democracy and then it was a sleep until the founders gave it to us. And what's so fascinating about this is that those who are screaming that others and the enemies of democracy are the ones who are actually directly opposing a real democracy and the ability to express your mind, your heart, your faith and so on. And they say not so fast, the only kind of democracy that we're in favor of is one that agrees with our viewpoint. Absolutely. And it smacks again of what the dictator and the despot do overseas. See the dictator overseas says we have religious freedom. President Xi and China, we have religious freedom. Modi and India, we have religious freedom. Now especially looked as Xi looked in North Korea, they have these laws in their books. It doesn't matter though because what it means practically is you have religious freedom as long as you can go into your apartment in your home and don't share it even with your family members. Keep it to yourself but you can think anything you want. Just don't bring it out into the public square. But that's sound familiar because that's exactly what people are pushing for here. And they're just in the end, anybody who is pushing for that kind of law or hate speech laws, these are these are the absolute enemies of democracy. And they're the enemies of the Christian faith. It's interesting that our second president, John Adams made a statement that is so frequently quoted, our government was made for a moral and Christian people and is wholly inadequate for the government of any other. And the reality is he knew and our founders, they all knew that unless there were protections against this kind of rising up and shutting down of Christian faith and of your ability to express it, to gather together, which many of our zoning laws are trying to prohibit as well across the country, that the only protection against that was that we the people would be a Godfearing people. The problem is we have so abandoned the fear of the Lord in the last 50 to 60 years that a phrase that was once the most common way of expressing a man whose word could be trusted, a Godfearing man, is almost never heard anymore in this country. Yeah, the times they are changing. These are these are crazy days where we've seen so much cultural decline, moral ethical decline. And what for me is we shouldn't be surprised when the laws to hate us are against us. But at the same time, again, we have to be involved in the process. And in the end, for me, it says to me that we have to go back to our roots. Where have we gone off as a Christian people? And I'd say there's a couple things. I'd say, you stop me if I get offensive here. If I go off the rails, I don't think you will. But look, in terms of church life in the United States, what is the to use a phrase from Star Trek? What's our prime directive? What did Jesus leave us with? Go win the world, win and disciple. And then you tell me practically how many churches you know are training their people into practical evangelism, how to share the faith and how to go out and then go out and do it and model it. Well, not only that, but even the more so how to live it out in your own home. The so the discipleship is not so much for evangelism, but for living the life of Christ. And even that is not taught, which is the very heart of the Great Commission. So you've got the both and this. And because the people are not truly discipled, it's a just a feel good religion anymore. And the real operation of the faith once delivered to the saints has been so watered down that it's almost as if Christians in this country have no ground to stand on anymore. How are you going to stand in the evil day when you have given up the ground to stand on? You know, almost two decades ago, I was in China and I asked for a meeting to be set up between myself and pastors that had spent a long time in prison. And I was given a wonderful gift. I spent an afternoon with a number of believers, pastors and the lowest sentence someone had spent 10 years in the concentration camps, longest sentence 24 years. This is who I sat with. And these were godly, godly people. And no real understanding of the outside world. These are simple rural pastors and asked them a couple questions. And one of them was I said, I tell me what the church would be without persecution. And they said, the church would be a mile wide and an inch deep. That's a phrase I'm using. But that's what they said, right? They don't they don't know the English phrase. They said it would be a mile wide and an inch deep. But you would have people running around speaking from church to church. And they would be without the real power of God or the anointing of God. But they would be great speakers. And that's what you would see. And I looked at them and I thought they were schooling me. And I said, do you know anything about United States? And they just quizzically looked at me and they're like, no, they didn't even know I was asking the question. But to me, then it all circles back and we drilled them, as you did earlier, we go even below the political, we go down to the roots and the spiritual. And for us, I think what it is is, you know, it's when when the Lord sees us crying out, not for the politics, the lack of freedoms, when he sees us crying out over the death of our fellow citizens that they're dying and going to hell, that the wickedness of our country that agrees him and agrees with us, we're so used to it. Posh, we're all bathed in it, right? It's hard to be. It's hard to get alarmed over it. But when we take on his holiness, we say we hate what's going on, we can't stand. We can't even stand what's going on in ourselves. We need a fresh fire. We need a fresh wind. There you go. Well, the fear of the Lord is to hate evil and we need to hate it in ourselves. We need to hate what's going on in our churches in Christ's name. You talk about deception. That is major deception coming in the name of Christ. So it's almost as if there's almost a kind of persecution in the church itself, the broader church itself in America, with those coming against those who are saying the kinds of things that you just said. Yeah, and there's look, the lukewarm Christianity is kind of the norm, right? And so we continually have to look at ourselves. And we don't even know when we're deceived by the nature of deception. But in a culture, I must have read my book, "Seduction of the Saints." I had to stay pure to go into deception. There you go. But isn't that an interesting dynamic? We don't even, by definition, we don't know when we're deceived. And we have to be questioning ourselves when we're in a culture like this. But in the end, it means that we have to go back and we have to say, "Light this heart on fire again. Use me." My life doesn't matter. My little dreams and wants and desires. They don't matter. The only thing that matters is you. And we look around and we see men differently. And we see them that we are after the Titanic and we are lifeboats, but all around us are the people in the ocean without a life. Well, just like the lifeboats in the Titanic, very few of them were filled to the max. Some of them very, very few people were on board. We've got the same problem again. We'll be right back with Jeff King after this, Fred. Stay tuned. There is so much more about Chuck Chris Meyer and Save America Ministries on our website, saveus.org. For example, on the front page are two great videos. First, an interview and discussion of Chuck's book, "Out of Egypt." Also, a great TV interview with Chuck regarding his book, "Seduction of the Saints." Much more videos, a forepastor's only section, and also you can view Chuck's weekly teachings. All at his website, saveus.org. That's saveus.org. Also, on Chuck's website, listen to Chuck's viewpoint broadcast. Listen to the archives. Maybe you missed a program, check it out at saveus.org. Also, there are some great resources, hospitality information, also information about marriage, divorce and remarriage, newsletters, articles, prophecy, prayer and revival information. All at saveus.org. Today on Viewpoint, once again, we're compelled to take a look at what's happening both in our country and around the world with regard to exploding persecution and exploding anti-Semitism. We'll get to that in the next few minutes. But our special guest today, Jeff King, is the president of International Christian Concern. And Jeff, I'd like you to take a couple of minutes and tell us about International Christian Concern. You've been president since 2003. First of all, how in the world did you get so connected in with this subject, this ministry, and then tell us a little about ICC? Yeah, well, I had been with Campus Crusade for Christ for 11 years. I think before that it was in mortgage banking and corporate banking. And my distraught that broke the camel's back in the secular world for me was when I made two, three times as much as other people made in a year. And I made it in a month. I was in sales. I was like, I just don't care. And right then I had a calling. And then I, you know, the Lord specifically brought me into Campus Crusade for Christ. And I spent 11 years on running around the world. And a lot of it was in closed countries. He was just even prepping me for then. So high security countries. Interesting. Yeah. So in one sense, it was a costly decision. You had to leave like the rich young ruler, you had to kind of leave everything in order to follow the Lord's drum beat instead of the culture's drum beat. And but it may sound like there was some great cause, but there really wasn't. It was just an absolute joy. You know, we're all looking, hopefully, I don't know if that is true, but I know many of us are constantly looking for his to understand where his compass needle is pointing in our life. Yeah. And if you get clarity, if you get clarity on that, it's just wonderful. It's the best thing ever. And so honestly, I was so excited to be poor for God. And I got over that. You know, I spent 11 years. And by the end, I wasn't making anything as you have to raise your own financial support. But he calls me into campus crusade for Christ. I'm running all over the world. And again, doing a lot in closed countries. And then my support, you have to raise your own support. It starts to fall apart. And I can't fix it. It always been very easy. And then nothing would work. And I finally realized he was pulling me out of there. And so I'm praying and praying. And there is no answer. I know that's never happened to you. But there's just no direction. And your life's falling apart. So, you know, and you kind of get into this, I got into this point where I was like, whoa is me. You know, I left everything behind Lord. I gave it all you. And now I'm feeling abandoned and blah, blah, blah. And I swear, Chuck, I think he waits for your faith to fail in that kind of situation before he does the big reason. Well, either he waits for it. That's one way of putting it. Or he's waiting for you to cast all your care upon him and say, hey, buddy, didn't I ask you to trust me? Yes. And there's always those moments. It's in the suffering. That's where we re-experience transformation. And in fact, I remember we were in a staff Bible study, just in our little department. And we're going over that verse that is, I'd rather be a doorman for the Lord. And I would say it's in the modern vernage where I would rather be a butler for the Lord than to be with the rich and mighty would be the simple way to say that first. Oh my gosh, that hit like a spear into my heart. And I realized, I said, Lord, you've given me something. I'll start crying now, but you've given me so much. You've done so much for me. So now it becomes an honor. And the fulfillment of doing what the Lord, a mandate that the Lord has put on your own shoulders is a unique calling becomes a driving force of your life. And so it's great to hear you express that, Jeff. And I feel like you and I have been given an opportunity now to, shall we say, develop a kind of brotherhood, a unique kind of brotherhood around the kingdom of God and these unique callings that we have. And so what does international Christian concern do? What specifically are you doing? Well, we serve the persecuted in a couple different ways. And when I say persecuted, I mean, the guys overseas, and it's guys as vernacular, men and women overseas that are really suffering. So, you know, here we might have a little job discrimination or this or that. But over there, you're talking about beatings and imprisonment, rape and torture, murder, just the worst. So we go in and we do a whole bunch of bandaging. And that might be bodies. We're going to bandage bodies all the time, as well as even structures that were structures of damage. We repair those. But then we're also doing building. We are pushing out the gospel into the toughest places on earth, including North Korea. So all that is in the field. And then we also work on Capitol Hill with senators and congressional representatives, State Department and sometimes even the White House, depending on who's there. Well, that takes a lot of faith then, doesn't it? It takes a lot of faith. It really does. And at the same time, you'd be surprised. There's so many good people on the Hill and any number of people that care. The majority don't, honestly. But there's a lot of people that really do care and are trying to understand the importance of religious freedom. And whether they're Christians or Jews or whatever, but the whole bunch of people believe in that cause are pushing forward. So there's a lot of good people down there. All right. So your ministry and mission is broken down into three parts. Advocate, assist and awaken. And the awaken is, this is what we're doing here and we do a lot of my talking. And we need to be brought to understanding. And that's what our listeners are discovering here on this program for the past two or three months. Since I've been talking to them about my latest book that's heading for release in August when persecution comes, preparing our hearts for perilous times. Yeah. And believe it or not, Jeff, in the appendix of that book, I have listed four or five different organizations and ministries that are important, very important for the readers to understand. And one of them is some group called International Christian Concerned. Do you think about that group? I don't, but I'm going to do some research and the next time we're on, we can talk more in depth about it. Yeah, anyway, you're in that book. Thank you. Thank you in advance. So I sent you a manuscript of it to take a look at. So look for that in your email somewhere. Okay. It's always in my email. No wonder. Okay, gotcha. Yeah, it's in your email. Most people have said they want to get a digital copy. So that's what I did. That's right. And your website is persecution.org. Yes, sir. So why does anybody want to go there to find out about persecution? They want to be persecuted? Heck, if I know. Here's the main reason I would tell people. So first of all, if your heart has been stirred today about your persecuted brother and sister, please come and then sign up for our magazine. We have a magazine. It's not a newsletter, like a typical nonprofit that's a magazine to teach you about persecution. Well, sign me up. Right. Sign me up. Yeah. But here's the thing, and Chuck, you've probably seen this. It's just like, you know, anybody, I think anybody I've met who's been involved in persecution, persecution ministry finds that great principle of work where you seek to serve and to give, but you get so much more back and that persecuted will revolutionize your faith. They will turn it on his head and put your heart on fire. And we desperately need that here in the West, right? In other words, my book, you have just attested, my book is going to set people's hearts on fire for the Lord and prepare them to be ministers in their own right for such a time as this. That's what I was alluding to. Yeah. Oh, well, thank you so much. That's why, Jeff, and you didn't know this, but I was on the air right in the middle of a program about in February, and the Lord spoke to my heart. He said, son, I want you to tell people about the persecution project. He said, what's that? Well, just call it the persecution project and lead them to join you in providing that book and spreading it in their places of influence. So we started that call the persecution project. And for $250, people will invest in that project. And in August, when the book comes out, they will receive 10 copies. And they will be able to give those copies out then to those that the Holy Spirit puts on their mind, their heart to begin to prepare them. And Jeff, what we discovered is people have graphs that and are deeply moved by it. And a man called me yesterday and he said, I am so, so blessed to be able to be part of that project. I am looking forward to it. That's a wonderful thing, Jeff. That is a wonderful thing. Yeah, it's such a powerful subject and a blessing to be involved in. And people, they see the person, they see the issue and they hear what's going on. And there's always a remnant. There's always some that the Lord will touch and activate. So it's wonderful. All right, let's talk about that remnant, the R word. A lot of people don't like that. I once had an eruption from a spiritual leader in our area. I was in a small group of leaders. We were talking with another leader who had come in to our area. And I mentioned, I said, it sounds like what you're really talking about is a remnant. And one man just exploded at me and very angry. He said, we're not going to talk about remnants. What do you mean remnant? No, we're going to have the whole world. Everybody's going to come to the Lord in our area. This is just going to, no, we're not going to talk about a remnant. Well, I thought that's what the Bible talked about. Yeah, that I am a little confused by that. I could have sworn that was a biblical concept. Exactly. The path to destruction was wide, but the path to life was very narrow and there's only one way. But maybe it's because he was, you know, a visionary and so wanted everybody to come to Christ and see the gospel go out everywhere. I was just astounded. I'll never forget it. Yeah. The virulence that came. It was persecution coming within the church. Well, and when you see that, that virulence, like you said, that real intensity, you've got to wonder and especially even with that concept with what you're bringing up, you can see why it would activate some and what his viewpoint and who's speaking through him. Oh, all right. Now, let's shift for a few minutes. I have in my hands a series of articles that have come out just in the last day. And what we're finding is a kind of veritable explosion of anti-Semitism, which is a form of persecution. And I want to talk with you about that and get your viewpoint as we look at Columbia University. Have you ever considered what the early church was like? Many people are developing a heart longing for greater fulfillment in our practices as Christians. A recent study showed 53,000 people a week are leaving the back door of America's churches in frustration. What is going on? Why has there not been even a 1% gain among followers of Christ in the last 25 years? Could it be that God is seeking to restore first century Christianity for the 21st century? Jesus said, I'll build my church. Is Christ by His Spirit stirring to prepare the church for the 21st century? The early church prayed together and broke bread from house to house. They were family and it was said by all who observed, behold how they loved one another. Incredible. But the same can be found right now. Go to saveus.org and click sell church. We can revive first century Christianity for the 21st century. It's about people, not programs. It's Obama body, not a building. That's saveus.org. Click sell church. Welcome back to viewpoint. I'm Chuck Chris Meyer, a special guest today joining us, Jeff King with the International Christian Concern to talk about these latest developments both in our country, religious persecution against Christians and then persecution against Christians worldwide. But there's another parallel form of persecution taking place and it's called anti-Semitism. This is an article, Jeff, that came from Israel National News today. Here's the headline, declare Columbia University a terror organization. The writer says Kristallnacht is the right name for what occurred at Columbia University. Kristallnacht representing one of the most horrendous nights ever in world history as the Germans came against Jewish people and ransacked the entire Germany to take down Jewish people. Well, as if you would think that this would not be something that America and our young people would be interested in, then comes this article from Israel National News. Campus anti-Israel protests, dozens of pro-Palestinian air protesters arrested at Yale, 45 arrested by police in riot gear stormed the campus during a protest. In addition to that, campuses revolt, not a campus, but campuses revolt. This is coming from the Jerusalem Post. Columbia-like encampments emerge at the US universities, but that's not all. The next one from Newsmax, Columbia newspaper, touts growing world support for protests. In other words, this is gaining traction all over the world. What do you make of this? What a complicated subject, but you know, it's a little lost on me, you know, the foundational level in the end. It's a little lost on me because when you look at what happened in Israel, you know, when so many innocents are murdered and slaughtered, that problem happened. In cold blood, right? In cold blood. And these are the innocents, it's not soldiers. And so no country, we wouldn't stand for that. If a massive attack on our own people happened, it would be dealt with. And you'd have to do war, especially when there's a another state right next to you, and they're at war with you. So you have to deal with it but this is the problem, you know, with human power. And you know, for every person they kill, they're rising, they're raising more enemies, right? So on the one hand, that's what's going on at another level. You know, the Arab money has been seeded into universities all over the country, and that has made it so you don't have clear discussions about Islam and radical Islam. And so, you know, but with all these images of suffering, you know, with the gods and people, which are heartrending, you know, you could see why people get activated. But if you don't look at the whole context, it's like what thinking person can't say, this is all extremely unfortunate and suffering is horrible. Let me help the suffering. Well, the problem with this is that Hamas is actually the number one creator of the suffering among the gods and people, and 80 plus percent of the gods and people are in support of Hamas. And that's what's ignored. And what's fascinating to me about this is here we had initially the Western world rising up in, shall we say, a kind of comfort for Israel, a media in the aftermath of October 7th. And then all it took was about a month. And the heart and the mind and the spirit of the Western world began once again, not for the first time, but once again, to turn against Israel. Now, what's fascinating about this is that we had our own experience on 9/11. Remember, almost 3000 Americans lost their lives. And we considered that a lot. But that was nothing compared to 1200 Jewish people because their country is so much smaller. So percentage wise. But we considered that the gravest attack on America since World War II. Well, guess what happened? Initially, we realized, boy, this is an attack coming from virulent Islam. Then all of a sudden, the heart changed to accept virulent Islam and welcome him even into our government. And at the same time, reject Christians and reject Jews. Now, go figure this out. No wonder Jeremiah said the heart of man is desperately wicked who can know it. Well, and if you look back at those times, you remember President Bush and his constant pronouncements that, you know, Islam was a religion of peace, which it clearly is not. It could be practiced as a religion of peace, but not at the core. And not if you follow the writings. But and that was a political that was a strategic decision he made and a state department made. I think it was very flawed. Instead of having an honest discussion that Islam needs to modernize, they need to have a reformation and there's something wrong. And the violent parts of the religion need to be rejected. But he, what happens is if you tend to smack Islam, they will band together and then you have a much, much bigger problem. So that was a strategic, I think, mistake. And I think we're still seeing that's reverberating down through the last couple decades. And so now there's this general misconception or just the ignorance about what what we're dealing with. Well, the whole the whole Western world has reached out its arms to welcome Islam. Islamic refugees Islam itself. But at the same time, to raise up its fist against Christians, whether it's in Germany, whether it's in the Netherlands, whether it's in Finland, in England. That's and in the United States of America. That's what's happening. And the entire world then is religiously destabilized. It is and going back to Israeli incident or not the incident, but just this dynamic that we're seeing. What the real politic of the of the case is always going to be this Israel in this kind of case, it's well understood between the Israeli government and our government that you're going to have a free hand to do what you want. It's egregious what's happened to you. You need to deal with it, but you better move on down the road because it can't go it can't keep going on. And it's going to have to because we're going to pay too high a price for it, which we're now starting to see. That's not me condoning it. That's not me. I'm just saying that's the real politic. Well, that's the that's the problem. Exactly. That's the politic of those who are globalists. And that's the one thing we haven't talked about. And I believe, Jeff, that the spirit of globalism is what is now underlying the majority of religious persecution coming within the broader Western world. That is what underlies the politics and why a president of the United States is suffering, shall we say, for successive legal trials where the law is being used to completely control speech and to prevent someone who voiced that he wanted to make America great again from ever speaking again, because the goal is not to make America great again. It's to establish a world government and order. That is not just political, that's spiritual, and that's going to be massive religious persecution, I believe. What say you? I wouldn't argue too forcefully against that interpretation. Let's say that. That's a very political response. You must be a lawyer. No, that's a very fair interpretation of what we're seeing out there. And in that particular case, you're speaking of, look, what we're seeing is no different than I.E.V. responding. And it's like the process is the punishment. We're going to bankrupt you, we're going to tie you down. You won't have time to blow your nose. And that's the point. You said it already. There is a decision being made, and he threatened a whole bunch of things apart, whether you like him or not. He came in though, and I think there was political naivete. He said, basically, I'm going to cut the Pentagon way back. I'm going to go after the intelligence agencies. I'm going to go after Hillary. What do you think happened? I'm going to purify. We don't even need the globalist, but what do you think happened in the halls of Washington? Because the president doesn't rule anything. All those people in the agencies that are there decade in and decade out, they're the true rulers. So when they all collectively get threatened, including the head of a political party that's sitting on a billion dollars, there is going to be a huge cost. But not to discount what you're saying with the globalist, I don't disagree with that. All right. Well, there is going to be a force that's going to interject the ultimate persecutor of all times, i.e. the anti-Christ. Yeah. And he is going to be the appointed, the anointed and appointed one heading up that new global order. And if we think there's persecution today, we ain't seen nothing yet. Well said. All right. So Jeff, if people wanted to come on board and be of some assistance to you, what would they do? Well, go to persecution.org, sign up for the newsletter. You can also go to persecution.org/LWO, last words of the martyr. So it's just the initials L-W-O-T-M. And you can actually get a free book of my last words of the martyrs. So persecution. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. How come I don't know anything about that book? I don't know. That the whisper is my third book. So the previous one was last words, the martyrs and Islam Uncensored was my first. Well, I must have that book last word of the martyrs. We can take care of that. Absolutely. Thank you very much. All right. This is very important stuff. You see, we're linking minds and hearts here to prepare God's people for times that are coming. If we're not prepared, if you won't hear messages about persecution in our churches today, unless they're focused on people out there. But the idea that we in here could possibly suffer persecution doesn't compute at all. Unless, of course, you've been attacked and your business has been shut down by zoning ordinances or because you happen to not want your particular artistic expression of business to go to advance the cause of LGBTQ or whatever. So people are not prepared. Pastors are afraid. Do you believe that? Oh, absolutely. Why are they afraid? Well, because of all everything that's happening. People get canceled. They're getting fired. And so we're worried. Everyone is thinking, "How am I going to raise my kids?" And we're thinking in human terms, "We just need more people to say the heck with it." His kingdom is what I'm going to live for and damn the torpedoes. So unfortunately, we just need an injection of just bravery and his spirit and to live completely for him to say, "He is what I'm going to live for and to be used by him is my highest use." There you go. We need revival. That's what we need. Well, and we need a vision for fathers and for mothers in their own homes to prepare their children because if they don't, when Bill Gates' mark that's coming along, he's calling all nations now to adopt it, when that comes along and it seems like it's moving at rapid speed, people are just going to, shall we say, drop light flies in their faith in order to try to preserve the next few days or weeks or months of prosperity and then all of a sudden, real life, Jesus is at the door. Jeff, thank you so much for joining us here on the program today. Looking forward to getting that magazine and that book and don't forget, you're being promoted at the end of the book when persecution comes. We've all got to work together. All got to work together. Friends, thanks for joining us here today on Viewpoint. Become a partner, send your gifts by faith to save America Ministries, P.O. Box 70879, Richmond, Virginia 23255. Call us 1-800-SAVE USA, write to us and go to at persecution.org, where you'll find out more about international Christians. Consider it, God bless, be a blessing. You've been listening to Viewpoint with Chuck Chris Meyer. Viewpoint is supported by the faithful gifts of our listeners. Let me urge you to become a partner with Chuck as I'm voiced to the church declaring vision for the nation. Join us again next time on Viewpoint as we confront the issues of America's heart and home.