[MUSIC] Fan Morning Show Sports at 590 the Fan, Ben and S. Brent Gunning. [MUSIC] Yeah, the numbers are gory. You're supposed to be like, hey, we're here. I'm the one supposed to be like, God, the sun. Yeah, the series is not over, obviously. They're only down two to one, and they've slayed the dragon that is winning against the Boston Bruins this season. They finally did that in game two, right? Hadn't had a lead against the Bruins this season. >> Like their backup dragon, they slayed though, the dragon still there in Swamin. >> Yeah, over his last six starts, he's six and oh against the Toronto Maple Leafs, goals against the average of 131. Save percentage, is this good? 959. And I know what we keep doing this thing. Okay, and again, shout out to down, goes Brown who brought this statistic, it's not even a statistic, this fact of light that I was, I didn't even think about. Yeah, Brayden Holt, but you don't necessarily think about as a Vesna winner, but he had one, true. In each and every series, Maple Leafs have played over the Austin Matthews era. They faced at least a Vesna goalie in each series, right? And that happened because they faced Lina Solmark in game two, who they hope they get to face in game four. But I got to think, I got to think, and especially say it again, you're not man enough to Montgomery, you're not man enough. >> I got to think that, you know, and you can, even if you were still up the belief, well, the part of what's made these guys so good is that they have the extra rest. Well, you got an extra day off between games three and four for Jeremy Swamin. Yeah, Jeremy Swamin is the guy right now and might be the guy that we're talking about who's emerging as one of the guy guys right over the next half decade to a decade. There's no excuses for anything, right? But, and all the goalies are good, most of them. There are the occasional not so good ones, and honestly, maybe the Leafs ran into one in the first round last year where Andre Vasilevsky is headed to the Hall of Fame. >> Not Hall of Fame performance from him, no. And he went into an off season where he had surgery, right? And the first half of this season when he finally returned, he looked like not the same version of himself. >> Does feel a little different in hindsight than it did in the moment, that's the tip. >> Sure, so how do you begin to have the conversation about this make beliefs offense, which should be, it doesn't matter who you put in goal, right? And you want to win a Stanley Cup, you definitely have to play some good goalies. >> Yep. >> Maple Leafs created more than enough to win yesterday, maybe not on the power play. >> Mm-hm. >> But yeah, different goalie and net, honestly, Lienus Olmerk and net, maybe they win that hockey game. How do you have that conversation about Maple Leafs facing goalies that are really good? >> It's really tough to have that conversation when the thing we're supposed to be saying in these series is, and look, like goal tenders are more likely, it seems like, to get hot and steal a series than any one player, you know, like Sidney Crosby, the de facto playoff killer, the guy we just, it's like, it's still infinitely more likely that Tristan Jari or Flower was going to steal a series for the Penguins than it was Crosby, just because of the nature of the position. But it's, I think the reason why it's so tough to talk about is because the thing you're supposed to be talking about in series with the Leafs is, yeah, okay, the goal is good. You're supposed to be talking about how good the Leafs forwards are. That's the thing you're supposed to be talking about, and we've had one game where we talked about how good one of those guys was, but that's not enough. And I think the other problem is, is that that's fine when you look at individual series, when you say, okay, they ran into a Vesna winner in Vasholevsky the first year and you saw what they've seen out of Swamin this year. In a one year, when you're having a one year referendum, it's a fair thing to say, well, look at what they ran into, how could you possibly have beat that or look how tough it was going to be to beat that. But when the sample size evolves past one season, two season, three seasons, or at year seven of the Matthews era now, it's a little hard to just say, well, they keep running into good goalies. You're going to have to beat one eventually. Yeah. And factually, the Vegas Golden Knights were capable of beating Sergey Babrowski in the Stanley Cup final, you're like, well, that's what we're supposed to be talking about with this team. So you, you're able, like they beat Jeremy Swamin twice yesterday, fired 30 shots, fire 50, like get more on net. You're capable of more time now for our insider brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus, where you can expect excellence online and in the showroom, visit Don Valley, North Lexus dot com. It is Devin Dubnick, former NHL goaltender currently NHL network analyst. How's it going? Devon. Good. Thanks for having me. Thanks for doing this. Start with this because, man, Ilya Sampsonov looks so good for so much of yesterday's game. And, you know, that goal he allows to try Frederick, not ideal, but it happens as like there's a sparring session between Tyler Bertuzzi and Brad Marchand is happening at center ice and the crowd is noticing it and the announcers are noticing it and apparently the referees aren't noticing it, but it's like, it's obviously the center of so much attention, could something like that impact a goaltender's, I don't know, their own attention. Like, could their attention be drawn away from the play at hand? Could that have impacted the reason why he allows Trent Frederick to go short side on him? I don't know. I mean, I'm sure you're going to notice it for a second, but you're also going to notice the guy flying down the wing by himself too, like you're not going to not play that. I'm not, I'm not, I'm usually the last one that wants to say something bad about goalies because he was incredible up to that point, but that's a bad one, that's a tough one. Because if you watch the replay, she's on the boards, you know, like it looks, it looks like a great shot, but that just, that just should never go in and, you know, the timing of it wasn't very good either. I don't think there's anything it could do on the second one. I don't know if that, I couldn't tell watching the replay if that initial shot got to him. If it did, then I love the rebound, but I think it just hits the brush and drops and so he has no chance there and... No, it hit his glove, I thought. He hit his glove, I thought. No, I did it. So he hung on to that one. I thought on the power play goal, he could have loved that one and obviously, yeah, it's a difficult play. It's not, it's not like the front-right protocol. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, again, it's a tie game and there's lots of time left, but that's a tough one. Like there's not really any excuse for that first goal from where it was shot from. It's on the face-off got fine, but like it's the boards and there's zero threat on the other side. So he really, you know, he was kind of deep, he was kind of off angle in the middle of the head and it just looked like he didn't, didn't get a re-off the stick. Yeah. It was weird. Yeah, I'm with you. It was brutal. There already was. Yeah, I know. That's the other part of it, right? As you, the least didn't lose that game because he lets that goal in, but it's such a, it's such a hinge point moment on the, on the flip side of things with what's going on in, in Boston's net. I feel like this is a very obvious answer, but maybe you can put it in a more illuminating light that I'm able to. How important is it for the Leafs to kind of get something going against Swaman here? Because we've seen this in the playoffs where goalies start out and everyone, you know, Swaman's been good heading into the playoffs, but they start feeling it and you start winning games and it just feels like these guys truly become unbeatable. How important is it? I mean, forget for the Leafs, for the rest of the Eastern Conference for them to kind of get one past Swaman before he just gets into that almost like, you know, J.S. your gear zone, we saw, you know, God, like 15 years ago now, yeah, well, you certainly look like that now and I heard you guys saw it just before I came on. I mean, they got, they have to, I mean, it almost turns into a mental thing on both sides where you got Swaman probably feels like he can't be scored on by Toronto and Toronto probably feel like they can't score on him. So, and you know what? I mean, he was incredible last night and it's not just, he just looks, he just looks like he's not going to get scored on, you know, and I thought, I thought Toronto played extremely well, you know, Boston is, is so like, when you watch the game, it's so difficult for Toronto to get the puck through, you know, they've got possession, they're moving around but you've Boston is just, they just looks like there's no room in their end, even though Toronto's got the puck and you look, it's like, and how frustrating is it when it feels like they can't beat them so they do what you should throw a puck to the net, get a lucky bounce, probably it felt like the only way it was, the puck was going to go by him with something like that and then next play to the back here net again, I mean, that's tough especially when you got in the net, the next shift, you lose a two on three battle behind the net. Like, that's, that's how you lose a game. It's been a tough near 60 years, but yeah, no, that was, that was especially tough, like under a minute later to, and for it to be Brad Marchant to had to be Brad Marchant, didn't it? Like, of course, of course. Yeah. No, naturally. Yeah, for sure. But I just, that just can't happen. I mean, the next shift, they work, they work so hard to get that second goal. And if you look at the chances, crazy chances they had in front of the net, I was watching, I thought Bertusi that he kind of bounced on and hit the polls. I thought that was in the back of the net, they had one, they had like two other ones. They worked so hard to get a goal. And then they go behind their net and lose a battle, it's just no reason for that puck to come out front to Marchant. Nope, it's been these like one little, yeah, hinge point moments in these postseason games where everything's magnified. And there wasn't, there wasn't much like they were, they were playing really well defensively too. Well, but this is the problem though when you're only going to score two goals in a, in a hockey game or God forbid, oh, the one game they won, they scored three. It's an NHL record though, Devin, Devin, three goals or fewer in 10 straight postseason games. And part of that is the goal tending that they face and Swamans been awesome and even Hallmark was great in a loss in, in game two, but yeah, just the, I don't know, do you view it as a goal tending issue or the least just not creating enough offense? Ah, it's got to be, it's got to be both. I mean, like you look, you look at the gloys they've run into, like it's been, it's been Vaselescue who they were able to solve last year, but the Brods, he, they got Vaselescue, they played Tampa twice in a row, right? Yep. Yeah. So it was Vaselescue for twice, then after Vaselescue, the Brods, you know, they got Swamans in Hallmark and they tell me she's solved on Mark, but not Swamans. So I mean, you got, I mean, these are, these are some of the best of the best. So that are also playing at the top of their game. So that's definitely part of it. I think they got, I don't know. And you know, I'm a goalie talking. So I'm not a, I'm not an offense coach, but I think you got to change it up a little bit. Like, you know, just watching Marner a little bit, you know, you see these, the way they score some of these just ridiculous highlight real goals during the regular season, crisscrossing and making these ridiculous passes. And I was kind of watching Marner a little bit last night and he played well. But I saw it like kind of in the offensive zone and he's, he's weaving and, and, you know, trying to make one of these plays that was working in the regular season. But it's, it's playoffs in the way Boston is playing. There's just, there's just no room. Like they're, he kind of flows it down, but they're on them right away. Like the intensity is more and there's just less room. So those plays aren't there, uh, you, you almost have to change it up. Like it's not taking away creativity, but it's just, it might just be more toxic than that. More parks and bodies. And like I said, you look at that second goal, this is not how Toronto's usually scores their goals, but they're not scoring balls. So they might just have to get a little grimy and try to get pucks through, which is easier said than done with the way Boston plays in their own end. Well, yeah. I mean, I mean, I mean, Austin Matthews, I, I, I like his chances to beat anybody clean, but outside of him, the idea that you're just, you know, walking in and, you know, tic-tac-toe and it's backdoor on swam and it just doesn't feel like that's happening right now. You, you mentioned the Bertuzzi, I mean, he gets the goal there. The one goes off his leg. There's the other one. I was right there with you. I thought it was into a little premature celebration on my couch watching, watching that one because I, I thought it was for, for sure. And I guess the thing is, is, do you think the Leafs, you know, we've talked a lot about here. We've spent a lot of time talking about how different this group is, but do you think they have enough players to kind of play that style? I mean, the fourth line has been great, but they're not out there to score you a goal. And when you look at the Leafs third line, I mean, you like Yaren Kroc, he's a fine player, but as you go down the line up, it's not the heaviest team here. If the Leafs do need to play, if they do need to play a style, getting to the front of the net and just scoring these greasy, grimy goals, they certainly have some guys who are more than capable of doing it. But do you think, I mean, even missing guys like Nielander, who we don't think of, but he scores a ton of greasy area goals, do they have the right personality to kind of play that way against this Boston team, do you think? I think they do because, you know, you guys, I mean, I love the two of you and Tommy, those guys, there's two guys who had it that are more than willing to go there. But it's not even just like, it's not just parking a guy in front of the net. I think it's just, I think it's just shooting more like you watch them and they're moving the puck around. And again, it's like Boston is, you watch the Toronto move it around. And I mean, it would be frustrating because they've got the puck and they're moving it, but there's just, it seems like every time one guy gets the puck, the Boston guy's right there and there's just doesn't seem to be any room. So, you know, it's not changing the strategy because they spent a lot of time in the offensive zone. So you don't need all of a sudden need guys to go stand in the front of the net. But what I'm saying, obviously you need to go there, but throw pucks, just rip pucks of the net, rip it across the net. Like you see how it hits guys, you know, hit the guy in the back and pops out to the slot on your tape, like just chaos and, you know, you don't have, all of a sudden need big bodies and just go stand in front of the net and get cross-checked and try to screen the goalie. I just think you've got a rip puck there and see what happens because the tic-tac-toe backdoor happens just isn't there. I mean, I guess it was in the first goal, but for the most part, it's just not there. So it's just going to try to get something granny. I mean, the best reason to, and the most logical reason to believe the may beliefs are going to win this series is, man, Jim Montgomery started Lena's All-Marking game two after Jeremy Swamann had a pretty similar game one. I can't imagine he does it again in game four, but this was like, I think you will. You think all Mark starts on Saturday. I think you will. I agree. I think it's nuts. But I think you're right. That's Cuckoo bananas. I know it is. I think that the reason is because I think if you're Jim Montgomery and the coaching staff and you decide to do this rotation and they committed to it, obviously putting All-Marking game two after Swamann's game one, that I think they must have committed to it for at least five games because they're not going to do it. And then, you know, this happens and All-Mark played really well in game two. You're right. And so if they're going to stay, we're going to miss rotation. I think a Jim Montgomery is a great coach and he's a confident coach. So he's not going to be, he's not going to, like, I feel like there had to be a commitment to like, at least game five because he put in All-Mark if you lose, Swamann goes game five. Okay. You already got Swamann coming back anyway. And from there, I think, you know, if it was 3-2 Boston and he won all three and All-Mark had lost two, then he changed it up. But my guess is that they've committed to this for five games. Okay. I agree. I want to be clear. I agree with everything that's being said. I agree. It's nuts. I agree. That's what's going to happen. Oh, my God. Help me. Help us get a little insight here. The, I mean, we talk so much about the psychological aspect. Like, Ilya Sampsonov, it's like, we're afraid to say his name too many times in his show because maybe it sets him off. The idea that you have a guy in All-Mark who is the reigning Vesna Trophy winner, but they also tried to trade him at the deadline. And everyone is wondering if they're going to go back to him. He plays well. They still lose that game. Throw in the other side of it. Swamann's going, uh, it seems like I'm the heir apparent here and all I do is win and stand on my head. Obviously these guys get along well. I don't think this thing they're doing is an act. But man, what must it be like inside that goalie tandem right now? I mean, they're both saying the right things, but let's be honest, they both want the net every single night as well. There are no more. Yeah. Did you see the, did you see Swamann's comments? I was quite surprised by that. Well, where he said like about the time that I got the starting game one. He said, no, he said, uh, let me see with something about he, he, he doesn't need the rest. He wants to keep going. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For me personally, I don't want to rest. I just want to keep playing. That's the first time I've ever heard something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You can pretend, but of course when he's playing like this, he wants to play. But this is already such a hot topic. Why would you say something like that? Yeah. You just. Now you get to talk about it for the entire 24 hours today. 48. They don't play until Saturday. Yeah. So you get to talk about it for the next two days. They're going to be asking Swamin after the game. You're going to bring it up now. Honestly, this hasn't been a huge topic of conversation on this show through two and a half hours today because I thought like, okay, you're not insane enough to do it considering the body of work that we have all season long of Jeremy Swamin against the Toronto Maple Leafs and in these two games in the post season. But the more I think about it, like if it was your plan from the outset, there's really nothing that's happened other than Jeremy Swamin winning the games and playing well. But yeah, that was very much within the realm of possibility when you set out to do this. All Mark played well in a loss in game two. There really is, like that was your plan. There's no reason if you must have been aware of the possibility of this taking place. And yeah, there's really nothing that that has happened here other than like the W's next to the guy's name, which is it nothing but like there's there's nothing that has really happened that should dissuade you if that was your plan. Yeah, like I said, you have to commit to it or just it just almost looks even more silly. Yes, because if you, like you said, you had to have known when you're when you're going into the thing that guys are going to split games that this was a possibility. Yes. And so you can't hold a plug after one rotation. You know, I don't think I don't think that's a good look either, but I mean, I guess they don't care what it will look like in games, but that's why I just don't think I think they had to have agreed to some sort of commitment to stick to it. And I just think it's five games, because like I said, if it's three, two, Boston after five games. And I'm swimming one all of them. I don't think you can switch back at that point. It's just nuts. I think it's a realistic possibility, if not a likely one. Devin, as soon as great as always. Thanks, man. Yep. Thanks, guys. Devin Dubnick, former NHL goaltender currently and NHL network analyst. He was our insider brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus where you can expect excellence online and in the showroom visit Don Valley, North Lexus.com. Like honestly, even in like the panels after the game, I'm like, Oh, why even bring it up? Like it's clearly done now. But like, yeah, I guess it's, it's not. If I was a Bruins fan, Oh my God, contemplating this possibility. It's like, it's one thing like, yeah, listen, they know more than you. They're the, they've spent a lifetime in hockey. Yeah. I'm sorry. Like there's a sports thing happening here. Watch the game, unnerd. Oh my God. I just, I. Linus Allmark is a net for the first second of Saturday's game. And I was a Bruins fan. I don't, I don't know if I'd be able to watch. I mean, you would watch the game, but you'd have this pit in your stomach, especially even if it plays out the same way as game two did. And you're still going back home with home ice advantage. I'd be apoplectic. Honestly, if I was a Bruins fan, you know, we talk a lot about like gold tending matchup and the least seemingly always losing it. I think for once the Leafs don't have the coach who's most overthinking things in the series. If that happens, yeah, again, like, it's entirely possible. It just wakes up and goes, what am I doing here? How about the guy who wins all the time starts? It's nuts. I, I think they do go to him. Like, I, I had this thought last night. It's nuts. I agree with everybody that it should be Swamin. I'm just going to say it again. And I'm sure this will, there's no way this comes back to bite me on Saturday night. I don't think you're man enough to do it, Jim Montgomery. You stick to your guns. You're the Jack Adams coach. You don't let anybody talk you out of this. Not even us or Devin Dubnick, who thinks it's a crazy idea. And I agree with him. But I do think they're going to go back to Allmark. I think the way that game two played out only emboldened him more because Allmark was good. And the way last year played out, you can make a good decision. That's the wrong one. I think that's what Montgomery did in game two. And I think it's very, very, I'll, I'll even go as far as to say it likely that that's what he does for game four. I don't think it's like, I still think like cooler heads prevail here. There's got to be somebody screaming in his ear. Yeah, Jeremy Swamin probably is going to say like maybe it's Jeremy Swamin. Well, that's the other part that makes this so odd is that you could see it if it was the other way. If Swamin was the guy who's on his way out and Allmark is the heir apparent. And you go, okay, like we can't like that. There was a Joe Wall, right, Ilya Sampson, but it's the opposite. Joe Wall is the guy who's good. And again, Allmark, very good. Possibly stands on his head. He's also under contract for next year. Right. It's not until he's gone. But like, yeah, he's pretty much gone. Yeah, that's what it's saying. Sure. Like what it feels like is happening at 25 years old that Jeremy Swamin is turning into like the next one. Yeah, like that's what it feels like it's happening. And like, yes, you know what? We should talk about how the infallible Jeremy Swamin could certainly never have a bad playoff game. I agree with you. We should just talk about that. You're right. He feels if you if you play, I always like to play this game with all the the goalies we get on. I didn't do it today. I'm just like, okay, game seven. You got, you know, one period left to play. Who's your goalie? It's not about future. It's about right now. There's a 10% chance when we're playing that game six months from now. Jeremy Swamin is the guy for a lot of people. He is right on track to be one of those dudes. So, yeah, it's, it's. You often think that you make bad decisions when you have no good options, but apparently having to wouldn't that be a great thing to have? Imagine having too many good options. Yeah, be quite a thing. I just, I can't instead of like Martin Jones is competent enough. Yeah. I mean, we got, you know, Edmondton Euler is here with Stuart Skinner in his eight 70 career post season. Same percentage and the kids who tried to trade for him, getting it done by their goal, getting one of that series avalanche still, like being Stanley Cup contenders with a shooter tutor. Yeah, it's. And the Bruins are like, we got the reigning Fezna guy who nobody wants to start game four, despite the fact that he was really good in game two. The reigning Vessna winner. Yeah, I know it's good stuff. Really, really good. Okay. We would do this if it was the other way though, it has to color what's happening here. How bad they screwed up the goaltending thing last year. Like if they didn't screw up the goaltending in the first round series, the way they did. I don't think this is even a conversation, but it was such a topic. You know, for all the, I'd say, like the Leafs thing heading into the season was how mean is Shelton Keith allowed to be to these guys? How much can he take them to task? The biggest question for the Bruins. Like, obviously, there were a lot of questions about how they'd bounce back different team, but how were they going to handle their goalies? It's like the thing that has been the question du jour all year long for them. God, it is just for all the culture conversations we have about the Boston Bruins and all the incredible leadership of Brad Marsh and yeah, like the idea of like maybe even a little bit of discord somewhere and they love each other and it's a great celebration. Like if you're just looking at dispassionately, I'm not between all markets away. I think it's not great. I hate it. It's kind of cool. No, but, and those guys seem to like each other. But yeah, Devin's right. Like at the end of that game. Well, before game one is like finally I start game one. But it's like, yeah, I'm good to go. I can start again. It's fine. Yeah, it also just the Coley Hugs reminds me too much of the low fives with like PK and Kerry Price. So that's just, I don't like it. I'm out. Okay. I refuse to look dispassionately at it. I'm looking very passionately at it. And it's hatred is the passion that it's listening out of me. PK with a viral moment on I actually didn't look at that video. You sent it to me and I was like, okay, I got the gist of it. And then I forgot to look back at it. So I know what I'll be doing in the break. Yeah, I hope we can talk about it then. This is not suitable for air. All right. Well, we'll come back. Luke Gazzet, former NHL Ford currently supports that analyst as the fan morning show continues. Ben and it's Brent Gunning Sportsnet 590, the fan. Diving deep into leaps, Raptors, J's and NFL. The JD bunk is podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Fan Morning Show Sportsnet 590, the fan, Ben and it's Brent Gunning. All it's a long wait between games three and four in Toronto because obviously it's Toronto Maple Leafs. They got to play on hockey night in Canada. Jim Montgomery. It's so disappointed about that. I complain all the time. Good job. NHL schedulers. You know, I like my Saturday nights. Good job. Yeah. And no one's. I almost went full grapes. They're like, good job by you. Yeah. Well, you did. I just did. Yeah. Jim Montgomery can't be mad at the Saturday night of it all. I guess the I can hear the argument that yesterday's game could have been played today. So you can spend an extra day in Boston. I don't know. If it's me, like, I think the four seasons is fine. Yeah, quit your crying. We're the Ritz Carlton. Yeah, we're. I think they're saying the Ritz. Yeah. Luke Fox, letting the cat out of the bag in his recent most recent on Sportsnet.ca. That's where Brad Marsh. Yeah, I will say. I wish I wish we had a little more like soccer in us. Like, I'd love to hear a story. Like, I would never say anyone should do this. Obviously. But like, well, that's the problem with like NHLers staying in like, you know, like, palatial the stage, such as Ritz Carlton or four seasons is like, it's kind of hard to gum up everybody else's stay there. Some of those people get a little upset. But like, yeah, a little fire alarm, little pots and pans in the hallway. God, if we only have the soccer of it all. Yeah. Probably not. All right, let's talk to Luke Gazdik, former NHL for Sportsnet analyst. How's it going, Luke? Good solid. How are we doing today? All right. You have an hour. No, not good. Angry, actually. I don't know why Ben's lying to you. Maybe he's fine. I'm not. That game made me mad, Luke. It was not ideal. Not an ideal finish. Do you have any hotel stories where, yeah, like opposing fans have pulled fire alarms or anything? Oh, man, not top of my head. But I will say you called them palatial estates. Like, I played four years in the American League before I got called up to the NHL. And you, it's just like such a crazy change of things. It was like, going from staying at like the best Western with a roommate in Rockville, Illinois, just staying direct on the road is a, it's a nice treat. I'm not going to lie. It was one of the best parts of playing in the league. No, it's devastating. Jim Montgomery is devastated that it's happening. He's like, I'd rather stay in my king size bed with, you know, the garbage to take out. Okay, whatever. Why can't they'll maybe score in this series? Hey, they had an offensive explosion in game two with three goals. It's 10 consecutive postseason games now where they've not scored more than three goals. Yeah, the power play obviously anemic yesterday as well. Oh, for five. Why can't the least score? Man, I wish I had the exact answer for you, but I think you nailed one of the reasons and that's the power play going over five is just unacceptable. I mean, they have the personnel to do it. And like, I know I equate a lot of things back to Edmonton, but I watched the Edmonton game last night against L.A. and they were taken away dry set all night. So they adjusted like they made adjustments on the fly and were trying different plays and had guys in motion like they had pre scouted their first game, which is something you generally do. You look at what works and what doesn't and you adjust. And I just don't think beliefs are doing that there. I was not a power play expert by by any means, but I did set front row for hundreds of them and and broke them down and listen, they just they got to make some adjustments here if you can at least get one out of those five. I mean, you're not going to have a chance in the series and I know this is what people probably don't want to hear, but Jeremy's Jeremy Swamann is just unreal. The athleticism. He just he's been there for them for the both games that he started. It's like, it's just Toronto's one of those teams. Yeah, it's the number against and they got to find a way. But man, it can be frustrating in games like that. That works so much on emotion and momentum where you get these great chances and you just feel like he's been there for the Bruins every chance and opportunity that they've had. Yeah, you're right. He feels infallible. The scary thing about goal tenders, especially once they start going like this in series is that if you don't, if you don't get to them early, it's almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy where he just gets stronger and stronger as this series goes goes along and you feel like it's harder harder to do. Is it, you know, I think a lot of times when you talk about and, you know, we all agree, the idea of the least needing to move more and not be so static and not be so set on the power play, but how much of it is just trying to get greasier? I mean, you see the second Bertuzzi goal or not the second Bertuzzi goal, but the second goal scored by Bertuzzi. It's just off his leg. It does feel like they need a few of those to kind of go in against Swamin. I mean, Austin Matthews, yeah, if he gets a look, maybe he's able to get it by. But other than him, it doesn't feel like beating Swamin clean is really in the cards right now. No, I agree. I think it was like generally the solution that we always came to over 11 years pro. I heard it 100 times was if you can't score goals or if you're, if nothing's fallen from the outside, it's just get it to the net like more and more shot attempts and the boss doesn't block a ton of shots. Like for anyone that watch Vancouver Nashville the other night, national block, I think 36 shots. It was crazy. Austin, I think they had 26 last night. That's not even a crazy number. And I just feel like you got to get everything towards the net. Get traffic in front like Bert's always there. Johnny's good on the power play, but they should have a driver and just someone there all the time. And the more you can do that, something's going to fall here. There's a seven game series or looks like it should be against a very even evenly matched team. Let's add in. I just feel like the bounces will start to go. You create your own luck sort of. Sure. I mean, they lost a lot of winner take all elimination games in the first round before they finally won in game six last year. But yeah, from your mouth to God's ears, we'll see. The officiating. I mean, it's hard to argue with the officiating when you get five power plate chances and you don't score on any of them. But yeah, the one, the first Bruins goal happens after. Listen, everyone, I think would have been fine. Honestly, if the whistle goes and it's Bertuzzi and March and going off at the same time or before that, Austin Matthews being hog, hog tied by Charlie McAvoy behind the net, but the March and of it all and Sheldon keep after the game. Talking about how this guy is so smart and good at looting the whistle has not taken a penalty this entire series. Is he officiated differently? Oh, is he officiated differently? No, not really. I kind of agree with Sheldon in the sense that he's just really good at it. And I mean, I watched it for the four years that I played against him. He just somehow manages to get on the positive side of the call every time. He's just really damn good at it. And it can be frustrating as ever. I thought they should have blown that down for sure, but they were kind of both trying to sell it. And this is not an excuse for Sammy, but I don't even think, I think Sammy expected a whistle as well. He didn't look like he was set when Frederick came down the wing. You got to have that gave you some flashbacks of Joe Newndeich and 04 on Patrick Colleen, but you got to have that one better. Yeah, that was better for our side, but the map is one too. It's just like, they kind of talked a bit on sports net in between was like, what's the standard here because that's a clear like grab and hold. It's almost a WWE move by McAvoy. And I just, that's the one where I was just like, you try not to look at the wrestling all the time, but that's a penalty. Like, that's a penalty in the playoffs, regular season, whatever you want to call it. So I didn't love that either. But yeah, Marcie just has a way. He has this way about him where he just always seems to come out on the positive side of it for the Bruins. And it can be frustrating as ever. But there's not really a solution to that either. I watched that live, man. He is, he is the master at it. Okay, I don't, I don't disagree. Like, he's certainly the master at getting away with it, but is it not a little bit of a self fulfilling prophecy at this point? Like, you know, I, the two guys that have been kind of ringing in my brain and obviously, well, well, Kadri finally is accomplished with what Marshawna is. But these guys aren't Brad Marshawn, but it's Kadri and Bunting. And the thing I heard over and over and over again in both of their 10 years with Toronto is the refs hate being made a fool of. They hate being tricked. They hate when guys make them look bad. And it is very odd to me. And, you know, it doesn't have to be about just those guys. I'm sure they're passed across the league that feel like they don't get the right do that that Brad Marshawn is making the refs look bad. I think the fact that they give the makeup call immediately after is proof positive that they know that. I do wonder, and I don't think the answer is yes to this, but I do wonder if last night was a bit of a tipping point where we talk about the eyeballs on Toronto so much that it was pretty obvious that he is officiated in a different way. And is it a skill he has, or is he just officiated in a different way? And now he's able to get away with it. That's the thing. I can't kind of wrap my head around with Marshawn because I'm not taking anything away from him. You're right. He is able to get away with it. But isn't he able to get away with it? Because he's just able to get away with it. And other guys aren't given that benefit of the doubt. Yeah. Well, regardless of the question, if you're on the leaf side, you can't even put yourself in that position in the first place. You know, like, there were certain guys in the league, whether it was Marsha, or one thing was one of them. I played against him in the minors. But as soon as you get within five feet of them, you got to know that you can't put yourself in that situation, whether it was don't me back in Boston or it was burnt last night or whoever it is, whenever you get within two to five feet of this guy, you know he's looking to draw one. And so you have to know that on your side. It's, to me, it's just as much on the leaf side as it is on Marsha getting the calls. It's just knowing and being aware that as soon as you get tangled with this guy, he's looking to draw one. So you can't even put yourself in that position in the first place. It's almost just like leave them alone. Like, there were certain guys around the league where, if you know you're going to do that, just, I mean, play them hard, but almost just let them sleep. Don't yap at them. Just kind of don't be, don't be looking to get over there because you know, you know he's looking for one. So, listen, we know what a Toronto Maple Leafs crowd is like on most occasions and they were into it when things were going well and when bodies were flying and when goals were being scored. But yeah, there was certainly some moments in there where you wished it was louder. Tell me, Luke, from a player's perspective, how impactful is that? Because it feels like people on social media certainly believe it's impactful to the Leafs losing five consecutive postseason games at home. So it's different for a lot of players. For me, I fed off the energy of the crowd. That was just the way I was. I played at a very high drive where I was amped up. I was fired up ready to go and I would almost use the energy and emotion from the crowd to get me going, whether it was hitting someone and hearing the crowd cheer behind you, even on the road, like road buildings used to really, really get me going. Not every players like that though, and this will sound crazy, but some players don't even necessarily care. They don't notice it. They don't notice how many people are there or if they were allowed or not. Some guys are, I don't want to say more dialed into the game, but I just want to say for some guys, it matters more than others. And I just think, man, if you're at home, I had a couple buddies at the game in the building last night. Actually, one of my buddies maps it together. He's probably listening. He's a big fan of your show. They said it was a bit overblown. It was a bit overblown online, but still, man, it's tough. You look at Edmonton, you look at Winnipeg, you look at Vancouver, and even Boston was great when they were on the road. Like, I kind of wish for your life that sometimes. I don't need rally towels or the whiteout, but I mean, the ongoing joke with us is the platinum, right? Like on TV, you look at the platinum sections and they're empty for the first five minutes of the period and going into the playoffs. I'm like, God, this will probably be different electric crowd. And then last night, the same thing, like the whole bottom of the lower bowl is empty when there's three minutes into, you know, game three. And that's even frustrating for me as a fan and like as a kid, you know, growing up here and knowing how, knowing how crazy it was and like there were 2000s, it was an absolute zoo in there. So that can be frustrating. And I don't really know if it matters in the whole sense of the whole team. I feel like more guys, more guys were the opposite of me. That they didn't need the crowd. They were just more zoned into the game. I personally loved, loved, allowed and roaring crowd behind me. It got me going a little more. Yeah, the thing I've been talking about with the crowd this morning is like, I, I call what a lot of people have been saying. Like, yeah, of course, you wish it was more rockish. You wish it was an Edmonton or Winnipeg, but I've also, it's also not lost on me. I mean, maybe less a Winnipeg, but Vancouver went to a cup final in 2011. The Oilers been to a conference final. It's not just doom and gloom in those other buildings. And I think that's the part of it that is kind of lost in this conversation is that, yeah, the fans can be proactive. But when the last five times you've seen your team come into your barn in the games that matter the most you lose, it's only human nature to be a little pensive and God, it's like I love the game you played after this. And Ben Watt taking the puck over the glass penalty. If I'm sitting in the building, I can be as excited as anybody. And guess what? My butt's getting pretty tight. The second you got to kill a penalty that early into the game. So like, I agree with you. I'd love to see a more rockish crowd, but I also think it's partially on the, the team. Cause I mean, you look at when Reeves is running around and Ben Watt takes pastranax head off. I don't think anybody was complaining about the lack of energy in the building there. No, I agree with you too. I kind of thought of that as soon as I said, early 2000s, it was a zoo that the brand of hockey was definitely a lot better. Or not better, just different. Right. One when you had Tidal me and Gary Roberts and Darcy Tucker running around hitting everything that moves. And when you had Captain Matt scoring clutch goals, that's an easy team to get on board with. And maybe it is just a disconnect between the team and the style and the way they've played and the lack of success. That's, that's attributing to that. But it's a chicken or the egg thing, right? It's, um, which one's going to come first and, um, I don't know. It's, it's, I don't want to say it's disappointing. But you know what I mean being a kid growing up here and then obviously watching it across the league. You kind of, you wish a little bit. Yeah, there's no question about it. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Uh, Luke, this is always, uh, spectacular having you on the radio and shout out to your buddy Matt. Yeah. We're fans of his too. Hey, by the way, did we actually start Addison Barger in left field? Has he never played a professional in any left field? That's true. Not, not only not a professional inning. He said he'd never played it in his life, like never in, in the little league, like never played it before. He's like, I'm sure it's the same. And then when that first ball was flying out, he was like, it's not the same. It's different. It's very different. It's just nightmare written all over it, right? And this J's team, my goodness. Well, I had to ask you guys, I know you guys are the experts, but I just wanted to clarify that. Thanks, buddy. We'll talk again soon. All right. Talk to you guys. Luke Gasek, former NHL forward, currently a sports analyst, buddy Matt in the building yesterday. Yeah, we, we also joke a lot about, it's like, oh, that Homer media. No, the Homer media that exists is every NHL insider caring infinitely more about the Blue Jays than whatever team you think they're a homer for. It's like my favorite thing in the, like a Marko Estrada era, Blue Jays was any time. A like kind of knucklepucky point shot went in or the go, oh, that's that Estrada change up. It was across the league from, from Arizona to Montreal. It did not matter across the continent. You were getting Blue Jays references. So, yeah, it never, it never stops being hilarious to me. Do you know what the score is five on five between these two teams through three games? I'm going to, I'm going to, I don't, and I'm going to hate this answer so much. It's five, five, five. Oh, okay. That was going to be worse. I got to be. Yeah, you thought that should be a five, nothing or something. No, no, no, no. Yeah. It's, it's five, five. So it's, you can't say that, hey, Leafs are dominating five on five and it's the power play that's undoing it. But the difference between these two teams has been the power play because the Bruins are out scoring the Leafs five one there, which is like that's dominating. And the five one. Okay, let's make it four one because I, again, I don't count the last power play goal into the empty net yesterday. Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah. No, that doesn't count. A four one. They have one fewer opportunity to the Bruins than the Leafs in this series as well. So I know like it's not just, it's not fair to just count up the power plays and talk about the officiating. That way. Because, you know, if one team's committing more penalties then. Yeah, but that's the way I know officials work, man. So like, yeah, the idea that it's going to be pretty close power play opportunities for both teams, no matter how the series is played is that's true. And also it's like, I think we've talked about and like Justin Bourne said, like, Leafs are the more physical team like the team that is going to benefit most by a lack of power plays. I mean, mostly because they're penalty kill stinks, but also because they're the team more on that edge. They have power play also stinks too. Yeah, it's just both of that. But yeah, it's God, like, how can that one area that is so it like there's a couple of through lines through the last eight years of postseason play. It's been not getting the better goaltender years and it's like the goaltender hasn't sunk the Maple Leafs unless you want to point to Jack Campbell and the Canadians series and like the game seven of it all. Plenty other fingers pointing. I mean, he did have a sub 900 say percentage in that series. But other than that, it's not like the goaltending has sunk them, but it's just they've been out goal tended and then this vaunted special teams and power play that was supposed to be the toughness just hasn't shown up and go back to 2019. And that was a Patrese Bergeron Bruins team. But the number one differentiating factor in that seven game series is the two power play discrepancies. It's just that how can we be here again? How? How? How? How? Yeah, they've changed the power play coach a million times. It brought in the like seemingly 500th guy that's going to fix it. I'm like, I'm not going to blame him. I blame him in a whole show wasn't his fault Spencer Carbury. He turned this power play into a head coaching job somehow. And now there's another guy running it. But guess what? It's not the coach's fault. Okay. When you have $50 million a player will lump Morgan Riley into this. He's going to be on the power play unit. When you got 50 million bucks a talent in a league where the cap is 80 on the ice at any given time. It's pretty hard for me to sit here and talk about systems or do not be encolched properly at a certain point in time you got to find a way. And again, didn't feel like it for vast majority of the season. Seven best power play in the NHL this year. So no reason it shouldn't happen. And every team that's ahead of them, you think of them as great teams. And there's like little glimpses again, like the first 25 30 seconds of the first power play. I was like, that's it. They're in it. They gave up a short edit break away. Great. And they scored a pretty important power play goal in game two. But that's the one. You need to know what that came. They won. Yeah. I know. Try it again. Yeah. All right. We'll be back tomorrow with another edition of the fan morning show. Ben and his friend Gunning sports at 5.5 fan. Good morning. [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING]
