Co-founder of The Free Society Satanists and co-host of the Ave Satanas Podcast Jack Violently joins Elizabeth to talk about Satanism.
Talking Shit About...
41 Satanism (Jack Violently)
Hello and welcome to Talking Shit About. I'm your host, Elizabeth, and each month I bring on a guest to talk about something they love, something they hate, and hopefully by the end we've all learned something. This month we are learning about Satanism, I had a really good time interviewing Jack, and I hope you enjoy and get a lot out of this episode, let's go ahead and talk some shit. And I was like, "What the fuck does that mean?" I am here today with Jack violently, with the free society, Satanists, and host of the Avi Saitana's podcast, Jack, welcome so much to the show, how are you doing? Hello, Elizabeth, it's nice to be talking to you. Yeah, so tell me before we get into Satanism, go ahead and introduce yourself and kind of just a little bit about who you are. So like you had said, my name is Jack violently, it's a pseudonym. I am the co-host of the Avi Saitana's podcast, Spotify, iTunes, wherever you find that. I'm also the Cardinal Piccadam co-founder of the free society, Satanist. We are a worldwide collective of anarchistic Satanists. We have members in England, Canada, Puerto Rico, and scattered all throughout America. We largely like to talk about modern Satanism. So Satanism has many facets, just like the regular church. You have Catholics, Baptists, Christians, they believe varying things about the same theme. So does Satanism, ours is modern Satanism. So not like the Church of Satan, Anton Lavey, or theistic Satanist, who actually believe there is a Satan, we believe, and we use the term Satan from the Bible. And in the Old Testament, it was only referred to as the adversary or the voice against. So Satan in the New Testament was then referred to as what you would think of as the devil. But in the Old Testament, it was really just somebody who spoke against the church. So the opposition of power or the voice that spoke against tyranny and oppression. So when you think about modern Satanism, those are kind of the guidelines that we tend to get through. Most of my biblical knowledge comes from reading Milton's Paradise Lost a couple times in college and having to take a Milton course, which was the worst time of my life. But before we started recording, I was thinking about like, you know, why Satan? And I was thinking back to the Garden of Eden and like to literally play the devil's advocate. If it weren't for Satan, like, you would never have knowledge and we would just be stuck in this subservient role if we're taking like the Bible literally. Absolutely. Right. So like we have Satan to think for feminism, really. Yeah. Absolutely. He's only done good things if you've really kind of taken, you know, so the voice against tyranny and oppression to define terms in this podcast. When I refer to Christianity, I'm going to be talking about Christian nationalists in the evangelical right. So I'm not talking about the live and let live Christians. You know, there are those out there. I'm more talking about the Twitter vocal minority of Christian nationalists and the evangelical right. So Christianity would tell you that trans people shouldn't exist. Many people deserve to die. Minorities should have a subservient role. We has a voice against tyranny and oppression, believe that those voices should be lifted up and heard. That's an artistic Satanism in a nutshell there. And for some of our listeners who have maybe heard this term, but don't really sure what it means. Can you kind of define Christian nationalism? The Christian nationalism is the people who think, who believe that this nation was built to be a Christian nation. America was founded on the, which is, by the way, it's completely opposite from how this nation was founded. We were founded to get away from religious persecution. The Church of England, everybody who came over here was against the opposition that the Church of England founded, you have to live by our rules. These are our ways. You have to do it. So we actually came over here to get away from religious oppression. And I find it funny how a mere 300 years later, we've kind of come full circle in our forcing other people to live by Christian rule. I was taken to account, you know, America is a melting pot. It is comprised of everybody from everywhere. And that's one of the things that I actually love about the place. So to have like a Muslim person or a Buddhist person or somebody who just doesn't subscribe to religion at all, having to live by the rules of the few is something that infuriates me. And that's the main guiding tenet of what Satanism is. It's a voice against that, if that made any sense. Yeah, no, absolutely. So what I'm understanding is, you know, there's all these various different branches of Satanism, but the kind of overarching or connecting theme is against tyranny. Yeah, it's against tyranny, against oppression, against laws that, you know, like like the abortion ban, obviously, that's a hot button topic right now. We believe in a woman's right to bodily autonomy. Who is anybody else to tell you what you can do with your body? It's asinine on its face that an old crusty white dude in Washington gets to tell you or any woman out there, what is appropriate for their body? Personal freedom is a secondary hallmark of the satanic religion. Because we believe that we are our own masters, we live by no other rule. And that's, you know, that kind of sounds sovereign citizenry, if you kind of think about it on its face, but we decide our own morality, who's to say like some 80 year old dude in Washington is going to tell me what's morally right. That's up to me to decide because I live my own life. So let's get into specifically the free society Satanists. How did this group come to be? So every Satanist kind of finds one or two groups when they decide to join Satanism. You either find the church of Satan, or you find various other online groups of Satanism. And everybody that's in the free society satanist right now started out in other groups. Big box Satanism, church of Satan, there was a few that were in other other discord servers as well. That's kind of primarily where we meet. And we found that one thing kept happening over and over. And that was leadership was always, you know, a white cis male espousing his specific viewpoints. And if you didn't agree with those, you were kind of cast aside. They would still have you in the group, but they wouldn't really listen or take what you had to say seriously. So myself and a girl named sign, we were in two groups together, and we found that both of those things were happening. And we were talking in discord one day just on a voice chat, you know, and we were discussing what would the perfect satanic space look like. And I've always been a lifelong punk rocker as long as I could, as long as I have been. And the word anarchist came to mind. And we use anarchism in a couple of fronts, but I told her that I wanted to add our group to the anarchistic banner, which means we don't believe in having one true group leader. So myself and sigh are co founders, but we have four people on the council. So altogether, there's six people in leadership. We all vote. If we decide that we want to move something down the pipeline, it has to pass by them a majority vote. And that's there to ensure that everybody's voice is equally heard and that an idea is good for the group and not just one person. We also wanted as many different viewpoints as we could. So our group is POC, queer women, you know, we're pro POC, queer and the women community, which you kind of don't find a lot in satanic spaces, even like the big ones that most people know, a lot of those voices tend to get silenced. I just happen to be a broadcaster. So I'm kind of the public face of the group, but I don't call myself the leader, sigh and I have equal footing. And we talked daily about, you know, what's good for the group? How can we push the group forward and have everybody's voice be heard equally? What sort of things does the group do? So we are scattered throughout the US, so we're centralized on Discord. So we don't, we do have meetups once a year. We just had one two months ago in Illinois, we try to pick a place where everybody can kind of get to equally, you know, without the burden of travel. But we do online fundraisers, you know, Tennessee and North Carolina have been hit pretty hard with the flooding, Hurricane Helen. We were able to raise about $260 to send goods and products, feminine products, water, you know, whatever we could muster with that money, sigh and her boyfriend are part of a car group. So there's a thing in Tennessee called attack the dragon, and it's a part of road that stretches into Tennessee and North Carolina, where the hurricane ravaged. So we were able to bring nearly $300 worth of, you know, non perishable goods, just kind of help out there. So we are, we're a group that likes to do charity service as much as possible. We are still relatively new. We've only been a group for going on about six months now. So what we hope to do in the future is do more charity work every quarter. We want to do a fundraiser charity for a benefit that helps the widest spectrum of people, not just kind of like, you know, focus it on a one thing, you know, it's like, we're going to help as many people as we can and make it, you know, make that be a thing that we like to do quarterly. So charity work fundraisers, we do have meetups, me being one of the co-founders, I was able to perform unbaptisms at the, the first meetup, the meeting of the Satanist. I performed one and I got one myself. And we just like to spread the word. We like to have discussions on our discord weekly about how can Satanism be better and how can we benefit everybody rather than just a select few. Tell me about unbaptisms. I haven't heard of that before. So an unbaptism has goofy as a baptism is and unbaptism is equally as goofy. Usually so in the Christian and Catholic world, when you get baptized, you say rights or whatever you say in affirmation, then you get dunked in water and come up and everybody claps. And unbaptism, so Satanists have a bit of a pension for the dramatic. So we had Peter Gundry, I don't know if you know who that is, he's a musician, phenomenal musician too, he does a lot of like a theory old Gregorian chant style music. So we had that playing in the background. And I wrote the unbaptism called the four anointed promises to bath a mat to which do you promise to live your life according to your own roles, do you promise not to let dogman superstition rule your life from the state forward. And instead of dunking someone's head in water, we filled up a cup and you know, I told the person that I did the baptism for I was like, go in the kitchen. I don't need to know what you fill this cup with. Make it be personal to you. And she did. And I was like, has the waters of baptism are known by all the liquid in this cup is known only to you by drinking it, you dissolve the waters that once rushed over your head. So yeah, yeah, I can I want one, I want one, sorry mom, but I want one. If you want later on after after the podcaster sometime next week, we can do another zoom call and I can read it out to you and you can do it if you want. But yeah, we wanted the liquid in the cup to be a personal choice because you don't have a choice with a Christian baptism. You're just dunked under water or if you're a baby, you have water sprinkled on your head. Water is the ultimate solvent. So I think she said she poured a truly into her cup. She got unbaptized with a fricking truly. I poured whiskey in mine, but yeah, so you know, and I said, if you want to tell me, yeah, you know, just whatever, you know, it could it can even be water who's to say it's personal to you. So an unbatism is really just saying that I no longer will be living with the promise that I once made. I'm now going to start living for my life. I'm going to start living a moral code that I choose and I'm going to start doing what I feel is right for me rather than being guided by superstition and dogma. Just a few weeks ago, I started reading Ram Das's Be Here Now for the first time and it reminds me a lot of the idea of being your own guru and, you know, looking for yourself for that spiritual leadership and I like it. Yeah. And a lot of that, I mean, we kind of get a lot of that from there. So Christian morality will tell you, you know, like the 10 commandments, obviously those are good. Some of them are good rules to live by, but they like to feel like they have the cornerstone on morality. So a Satanist, we live a moral life according to our own code. And we have to be moral because the church is coming after us. Oh, they're Satanists. They're killing babies and drinking blood and blah, blah, blah, blah. And in reality, being a Satanist is much more boring and mundane than that. Um, yeah, we like listening to metal music, but you know, we, um, so we choose to live a moral life and a more moral life because we are under scrutiny. They want, and they're looking for anything, you know, like, oh, they're Satanists, they're, they're doing this ritual. Well, if you looked at the unbaptism, it's one goofy dude talking to another goofy dude about like, do you just promise to live a better life? So we take morality very seriously, but it's a personal morality. And later in the episode, we can get into the nine principles. And those are kind of our guiding, like where we got our morality from. Yeah. Well, why not? Let's go ahead and jump into the nine principles right now, if you're down. So for anybody listening, so I'm going to jump to the last one first because I feel like it's very important to start off with it. The ninth principle says, never proselytize if asked questions, answer them. Otherwise, let others discover the path for themselves. So I say that to see this by me reading these, I am not trying to convert anybody. I'm not trying to pull anybody to our side. These are just the principles that we live by number one states, you are your own master and shall live life according to your own will alone. And I wrote most of these here. I feel like that's the most important one because it encapsulates to a degree, what Satanism truly is, you are your own master. You get to decide for yourself what you feel is right. And as long as you're not hurting anybody with your actions, do what you do. Who gives crap? Number two, show compassion and respect to yourself first and other second. If somebody exploits your compassion, rescind it. So this is important. Christianity would tell you to turn the other cheek. If somebody wrongs you, turn the other cheek, we start off every interaction with compassion and empathy. I've never met you before today, but I'm going to treat you as a friend. And that's going to continue until something happens where you decide that this interaction is working and you decide to break that contract. Then you will be shown a wrath. But until then, you know, like, and not you per se, but like the royal you, I guess, everybody starts off on equal footing. Everybody starts off with compassion and empathy until they're proven that they don't deserve it. And is that something that is can be like redeemed or? Very good forgiveness. Yes. Yes. You will actually get on that in, let me see, later down the list, we'll get on to that at number eight. But yes, absolutely. That is a thing that can be, and we actually talked about it in a previous episode two. That is a thing, once again, that can be regained, but it's basically, we put that there, respect yourself first another second to not make you the doormat. People can't walk all over you. I'm going to respect myself and I'm going to respect you, but I respect me first. So, you know, treat me the same way. It's there just to kind of show you that you are worthy of being in the room. Number three, logic in reason shall always prevail over superstition and dogma. Satanism is largely based upon the scientific method. We believe in things that we can see and prove and measure. So logic in reason prevail over superstition and dogma. Some invisible skydaddy is not going to tell me what's right and wrong in the world. I need to see it for myself. So that's that's number three there. Number four, and I love this one. This is one of my two favorites in the year, respect others boundaries, lest years be trampled underfoot. What that means is if somebody tells you, they come to you and go, Hey, what you did is wrong. I don't appreciate that. This is the way that I live and they continue to do it, trample on their boundaries. Once again, showing respect to yourself first, if they proved to you that they don't care about your boundaries, theirs don't matter either. A lot of these are harsh. I get that by me saying this is very vindictive, but Satanism is a very personal religion. So we are our own master. We look after ourselves. It's kind of where if they sound pointed and self-centered, it's because they are. Number five is another really good one, strive to live each day has your most authentic self. This would come into play with you when you said when you said off meeting, when you started that job, you had blue hair, but they were like, Hey, can you kind of tone that down? And you're like, it's this job, like who gives a crap? We believe whenever possible, you should never delude yourself, live each day your full authentic self. Now, I know there are some caveats to that. Let's say you're a teenager, you're just kind of coming into Satanism, but you still live at home. You can't dress a certain way. You can't paint your nails. You can't listen to a behemoth or whatever. So you have to kind of go along to get along. But whenever possible, don't delude yourself to please other people. If they can't get along with all of you or a part of you, they can't get along with all of you. So never hide who you truly are is kind of the meaning of that one. Number six is one of another one of my favorites is indulge without excess. Do what thou wilt as long as it brings harm to no one else. So Christianity and Catholicism will tell you that your body is a temple. You shouldn't harm your temple. We say if you want to have an edible smoke, a joint, have a drink, as long as you're not driving and as long as you're not making the consequence of your choice. Other people's problems. Who cares what you do? Who might I tell you not to drink? I'm having a whiskey during this podcast right now. So indulge without excess. Obviously that also means, you know, I have two drinks a day. I'm not pounding whiskey all frickin day. But live life. We like to live deliciously. Why not, you know, indulge a little. You only get this one shot. Number seven is my second favorite on this list. And this is a personal instrument. Well, so I said, I said respect others boundaries last year is be trampled underfoot. This one is actually like I said, I wrote seven out of nine of these. The other two came from other satanic practices, but this one is important and you won't find this in most other satanic spaces. Treat nature and her environs with the utmost respect. If you were to think about like an imaginary sky daddy who gave us all life, or you think about mother nature, you know, trees give us oxygen, the sun feeds the trees. Mother nature is giving us everything. So we need to be more cognizant of how we're treating her and we need to try to leave her in a better place than we started. So I work in conservation without getting too much into it. I work in the construction field. I know that's weird conservation and construction being in the same sentence, but and I've done that for 15 years. So I've been outside in the woods daily and I see, you know, streams and I'm watching deer cross paths and I'm just out in the middle of the woods. And it's a very profound thing that I think that unless you live in a or near like a national park or a historically beautiful part of the world, people tend to forget, you know, we're conditioned to look at our phones a lot or conditioned to look at screens and YouTube and the computer, getting outside nature and really just embracing the majesty that we've been given is wildly beneficial. And treating that with care and with dignity is something that I feel you won't hear any other satanic group mention, but it's drastically important. Okay, getting back to number eight, you said, is there a way to kind of get into somebody's good graces once again? If you wrong someone, acknowledge your mistake and work to ensure that it won't be repeated. What that means is, let's say that I offend you, let's say that you and I have met face-to-face and I've done something to wrong you. I don't expect you to forgive me, matter of fact, I wouldn't want you to forgive me. What I would want to do is work to show you that I have learned that what I did is wrong. So the onus of the apology is all on me or the forgiveness is all on me. It's very, it's very hypocritical for me to wrong you and just say, oops, sorry. And you go, oh, it's fine. No, it's not. You're still going to remember and I get off scott-free. So in the satanic space, speaking of morality, we like to put the onus of that forgiveness on the person who did the wrong rather than the person who was wronged. So when I say, if someone rescinds a, rescind a compassion to them, they should come back to you and go, you know what? Yeah, dude, I was kind of a dick there. I apologize, I want to let you know that I'm working to fix that and working to be better. Once you feel that they have worked and have gotten better and they have really worked through the problem that they caused, then you accept the apology. So to get to it, yeah, people can work to get back in your good graces, but it is, it's on them. It's not on you to just accept a meaningless apology and move on. I like that. And then circling back around the number nine, we don't proselylatize. Somebody asked questions about it, you just answer them, but just let people find it for themselves. Love it. Is there anything about the group that we haven't covered or? So anybody out there in listening land who may know a little bit or know a lot about Satanism, the free society Satanist, we're relatively new. Like I said, we've only been around for about six, seven months now. We really hope to provide a safe space for not only, you know, POC, the queer community, for women, anybody who has been in another satanic space and felt like that their voice wasn't heard or that they felt that specific flavor of Satanism wasn't for them. We kind of hope to be like the buffer for that. Don't give up on it. Absolutely not. Satanism is too important and too powerful of an idea and of a concept to just give up on it because the world does need an adversarial opinion because a lot of stuff is happening in today's world. And I don't want to get too political, but we've been, anybody who has a TV or a radio is hearing the kind of crap that could possibly be happening to us in the next couple of months, if things unfold poorly. So we offer guidance, we offer a safe space, we offer a sounding board, and we also offer camaraderie for people to know that what they're going through, they're not going through alone. That's one of the biggest things that I wish that I couldn't kind of get out there about Satanism, it's not killing babies and drinking blood as so much as it is, realizing that what we're hearing in the world is crap. And we can fight together to make it better. You did ask a good question in the email about kind of some of the things that Satanists believe. Like, is there any spiritual side to Satanism? And you said like the actual literal worship of Satan. While that is a thing that's called a theistic Satanism, so they actually do believe in a literal devil and they worship him, we don't have so much like superstition. We don't have so much supernatural stuff. We don't believe in God, so therefore we cannot believe in Satan and it kind of has I alluded to, we use the term from the biblical context that's one of those rants I was warning you about. No, perfect, I'm glad you brought that up. For anyone who does not want to be pro, oh my gosh, I've never said it out loud proselytized, they say it right? Yeah. Yeah, it's such a weird word, proselytized. Yeah. What for effort? Sure. Okay. If anyone doesn't want that, they can shut the podcast off now, but this is your opportunity to do that. You are being permitted in this space to share how people can find out more about the group and become safe. Everyone come over to the dark side. We have the best music. No, I'm getting sorry, but no, um, so Satanism is attractive in many fronts. People who are just fed up with certain political ideas that are controlling every aspect of their life and their body. If that is your mindset and you may or may not have been in other satanic groups, um, our website is the free society Satanists with an S at the end. I'm trying to like work so the de-esser doesn't have to do so much work, um, free society Satanist.com. Oh, that's another thing I want to talk about. I'll get back to that here in a minute. Um, there's a link to join the discord there and that's kind of where we, we centralize. We centralize on discord, um, our Instagram is of a satanas podcast and our tiktok is free society Satanist as well. Um, I did want to bring this up. So we found out after we named the group that free society in today's world has a libertarian slant to it and I did not frickin know that. Okay. So our logo is the fire brand. Uh, I'm wearing it here. That's on the website. You'll see it. As we were thinking about the group and I wanted it to be an anarchistic group, one that encompassed everybody and one who shared everybody's voice equally. I came across a newspaper from 1897 called the fire brand and it would later change its name to the free society newspaper once they moved to Portland. Um, the newspaper was very anarchistic at the time. It espoused the idea of women's bodily autonomy, women's right to education, which for 1898, 1899 was an artistic spot. I mean, like back then, you know, women were still considered property and that's as gross as that can be. So this newspaper was very anarchistic in that front where it was espousing the idea of like, hey, women should be able to like have the same education as men. Women should have bodily autonomy. They should be able to say what happens to them. And it being only one generation away from slavery. It also spoke out wildly against the evils of slavery. So in the research, you know, I was like, man, this newspaper was around in like the late 1800s and it was saying stuff like this. I want to be that radical of a voice and I know that word radical, you know, you hear that in certain, certain sections today and it's bad, but that's what we need. We need a counter voice against what we're hearing today and that's what you'll find at the Free Society Satanist is anybody that a Oklahoma governor will say doesn't deserve to live or they deserve to die. I think they actually said that like they said that trans people deserve to die when I heard that my blood fucking boiled because these people have social security numbers just like you and I were Americans, they deserve the exact same protection that you and I both have. And to hear an elected official say that about people in his state just angered me. So we are the exact 180 degree radicalization from that to that end. And I know that was a very convoluted die drive, but if you are thinking about getting into Satanism and if you want to learn more about it, this is the only time I will ever proselytize in my life. Check out free society satanists.com, there it has all of our mission statements and as the nine principles, it has the discord link. Basically everything there, the Instagram, we don't do so much with the tiktok has kind of been growing. Danny filth from cradle of filth just did a commercial for us, which is me fucking wild. So our tiktok is blown the fuck up. He posted it on his. We're reaching out to Libby Lux from the bridge city centers also from the Portland area. I want to have them on the show. But yeah, we're just trying to spread the word that there is an alternative space for people in the alternative community. And I feel like that's yeah, I would say first listen to the podcast of a satanist podcast on Instagram, not on Instagram, Spotify, iTunes, wherever, that would be the best way to kind of hear what we're about is Satanism something that you've kind of like looked into and kind of thought about or not really. I listened to last podcast on the left a lot. And Henry Zabrowski, I'll bring it up sometime. And I was like aware that he wasn't really like spiritual. And so yeah, I guess I've just been curious about it. I guess my perception of Satanists was kind of like oo, edge lords kind of like just bashing religion without any sort of like, I don't know, real critical thinking like I was thinking back to like, I think like high school, hot topic kids kind of like Satanism, right? Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. And the hot topic Satanist or what I would call the Portlandia Satanist, the skit where Fred Armistead, he's wearing like the top hat in the white face and just trying to be an edge lord for the sake of being an edge lord. And a lot of times you will find that most Satanists in our group, especially you can't really tell if you saw a mountain public. And that's that's more important to me because Satanism is an idea. It's not an aesthetic. You can look however you want to look like. For example, like I'm a middle age white dude. If I go out in public, the only thing that would designate it is the necklace that I wear and I can tuck it in my shirt. We do live pretty strongly with the idea of we're not out there trying to preach to people. We're not. I mean, because only somebody who wants to be a Satanist is going to be a Satanist. And much unlike Christianity where we don't need numbers, like we're not trying to like just have millions of people with wildly different ideas. We want to have a group of people kind of with the same ideas and the same values. So you'll never change someone's mind on Satanism. You'll never convert anybody who like, you know, just get a Christian on the street. You've been living life wrong this whole time. Come be a Satanist. Like, no, like they wouldn't listen, it doesn't work like that. People who want to learn about it and want to find it, find it. And we're just one of the end, I was going to say receptacles, but that sounds really gross in that context. We're just, we're one of the end end users for, for, for Satanism. So yeah, I think what drew me to this group specifically was like the anarchism elements of it. And so I think that's kind of what drew me into this group because I was listening to your podcast and by the end of it, I was like, all right, I'm going to, after the interview, if I'm still digging it, I'm going to join the Discord server. And so yeah, so another way that it is an artistic is we are largely anti big market capitalism. Other satanic groups will charge a Patreon fee. As we kind of talked about in the first one that you listened to, and what that does is it kind of creates a hierarchical, that's a word I can't say, hierarchical tier of people who get the most response from leadership. We do not have any sort of barrier to entry. We will never charge you any sort of monthly fee or a Patreon fee to be part of our Discord. Um, because it's just gross. And the church will ask you to tithe. We're never going to ask you for money. We do sell merch. It is cool. Merch. Never. But all money that we raise goes to charity. Um, I work a full time job. I pay for the merch out of my own pocket and anything that, um, we do make from the very small amount that we've sold just goes into just whatever fundraiser we're going to be doing at that time. Do you have an actor? No, it's right now. We do not. We just get through with the Helen or Helen Hurricane Helen from Tennessee. This time of year, it's pretty odd because we do have the holiday season Thanksgiving and Christmas, however, people decide to celebrate those. So the group kind of right now is in a bit of a stasis until January, uh, January is when we're really going to start re rolling out more, more fundraisers, if like a natural disaster happens between the holiday season, then yeah, we will, um, start one. But that was, it just made sense at the time. Like we already had a bit of money saved up from merch or whatever. And we were like, no, give it to them. And we just, it happened to be that two members from council were going down there for that. So we're like, yeah, they need it. Give it to them. But yeah, it's funny. I did. I'm calling this my media tour. Uh, you are the second podcast that I did. Um, I did an episode that just aired and it, yeah, I'm not going to give it a voice, but it was a kid who's like 17 years old, Christian. And he wanted to do a series of podcasts about people who the, the church would ultimately be against. And the way that he did, it was very cool. Um, it was, there was no pointed arguments to the conversation. He was literally asking me questions just like you. And he was just trying to get a sense and a feel of what Satanism actually was. Um, I have done two podcasts where I lasted about 10 minutes. Once I found out that it was a gotcha show. So I guess just talking from you a little bit on the phone that we did, I kind of knew that that wasn't going to be the case here, but, uh, it's wild, you know, for people that don't know anything about Satanism for, and the guy even said, he goes, I know nothing about it, you know, come on and talk with me about it, and I did, and he and me, I could tell from the first few questions it was going to go that way. Um, so I'm really happy that, and like I said, I could kind of tell that this one wasn't going to be that, but I do have another one next week where the guy was asking me about the supernatural entities of Satan. And I feel like he's watched one too many horror films. So I'm wondering if I should screw with him or not. Um, he's like, do you guys believe in ghost and goblins and stuff? I'm like, what do you think Satanism is? Like that's just freaking wild to me, I don't know, but yeah. So I'm wondering if I should go the goofy route or if he himself is probably going to go the gotcha route. So, um, I love this podcast. I've listened to two of your episodes so far. And I think this medium, it's important. And I love that you just have, you don't have a topic. It's talk shit about like whatever that may be. Um, so I really enjoyed listening to the tea that I did. I heard the fentanyl episode. Um, I was part of the Sackler family, uh, over prescription in my teenage years. And that led to a heroin addiction. Um, luckily I've been clean for quite a while, but listening to that episode was very, um, it, it kicked up a lot of sediment for me, like kind of down in the recesses that I thought that I've kind of gotten over. Um, so I really applaud you for, for doing this show and having really no set theme. Just anybody can come on and talk shit about anything. Yeah. Like when I had the idea, I was like, Oh, it'll just be like funny, you know, just kind of like rambling about whatever. But like from the first episode, it always turned into like, how can we make the world a better place and somehow relevant to the topic? And it's. Yeah, it's pretty cool. We're going to be doing a recovery. I say we, it's me, I guess me and my guests, um, we're going to be doing, yeah. Um, going to be doing a recovery series soon. So very nice. And really what's more satanic than trying to make the world a better place one episode at a time. So I started this and I'll say it again. Hell Elizabeth for that. That's fucking cool. Um, but yeah, no, when I was a kid, so I'm 44, so I'm fucking old as shit. Um, I played youth department soccer and I got my kneecap kicked off my leg. My kneecap was on the ground beside me. It just kept off my fucking leg and it got reattached. Um, the doctor in the small southern town that I grew up in thought it wise to get me on Oxycontin. That's good for a 16 year old kid. Just give them heroin. Um, and one of the things about it was the time release portion. I'm sure if you've saw the Sackler documentaries, like that was the thing that kind of created the heroin addiction. And from 16 until about 34, so almost 20 years of my life was, was in that. And luckily that was kind of before the fentanyl, um, wave kind of moved to America. So when listening to that fentanyl episode that you did recently, it, I kind of teared up a bit. And I'm not an emotional person per se, like, you know, like society has deemed that men shouldn't cry and blah, blah, blah. But I found myself driving to work in the morning, getting teared up, going, man, if this would have happened to me 10 years later, that could be me. I could be a statistic and you just having like a professional in the field about it, come on and just talk about it was, was wildly important. So definitely thank you from that portion of me. I really appreciate it hearing that. Do you have any closing thoughts before we wrap up? Never before have so many been so wrong about so much. Good night. Bye. I'm kidding. No, um, not really. No, um, I'd like to leave it open ended, you know, um, as we kind of said at the beginning, if you kind of want to hear more about it, check out the podcast. It's obviously satana's podcast. Um, the discord servers is on the website free society, Satanist. If you have found anything that I've said to touch a nerve with you or you may resonate with, definitely come check us out, you know, at least with the podcast. If you want to join the discord, absolutely. But it's not something that I am actively trying to, to build up into an empire because it probably won't happen anyway. But, um, in closing, I love your show. Um, I've already subscribed. So I'm looking for it, not only to hearing my, my dumb self talk, but also what future episodes that you put out. You put out a really good show, uh, for just giving somebody a long form version to expand upon what they want to talk about. So I think the specific formula that you do is very important. Oh, thank you. And I'm super grateful for you for coming on the show. Absolutely. Yeah. Yep. You're the exact kind of guests that I want to have on. So. Yes. Hell yourself held myself held myself as well. Uh, but yeah, out there in listening land, um, out there in listening land. Um, yeah, you know, I think for yourself and, and I think I'm probably speaking to the choir on this one, um, live life, however you see fit. You're the only one in charge of your life. You're the only one responsible for your life. Don't let somebody dictate your morality. You are responsible for that. So live your life on your terms. Live your life as best you can and represent yourself fully. Live life with no regrets. Hell, everybody. That's a wrap for this month's episode. I hope you all learned as much as I did. I will have links to the website and everything else you need to learn more about free society Satanists in the show notes. We'll be back next month with a new topic. If you're interested in being a guest on the show or want to suggest the topic, you can email me at kilisabeth.pod@gmail.com. That's K-I-L-L-I-Z-A-B-E-T-H dot P-O-D at gmail.com. Hell yourselves. [BLANK_AUDIO]