Jay Foreman on Mike Gundy versus Oklahoma State - December 6th 2024 4 p.m.
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Jay Foreman on Mike Gundy versus Oklahoma State - December 6th 2024 4 p.m.
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This is Old School, sponsored by the Mercado by Certified Piedmontese, broadcasting veteran Derek Pearson. We need to find something that moves that makes them smile, celebrate. That's your task, that's your superpower. Nebraska football Hall of Famer Jay Foreman. Welcome in, it is Old School on the ticket brought to you by the great people at Mercado by Certified Piedmontese. Special ingredient books are shot every type of meat and every type of cut. Hope you went out there and took part in fired up Friday part of their lunch. Special Lost Norman with you in studio, but we're headed to our VIP line brought to you by Aloe Fiber where they understand the importance of exceptional service with local heart. Let's bring in the Husker Hall of Famer Jay Foreman on the road. Jay, what's going on, man? What's on your mind today? All the things on the mind today, man. It's been a heck of a week, you know, while it's going on in college football. I mean, you might when we thought we had drama filled in our little town, the linking, Bill Waters started just decided to light the life up with my man, Mike Gundy, and Mike Gundy easily had one of the best bullets for anybody over 50 in America right now. He got plenty of good hang time, a little perm action in the back, but I can tell you what, Mike Gundy, he's an iconic figure. I mean, when you think about it, you know, kind of like maybe, you know, the really worked out well with that rock where, you know, like go home to state, you know, he played there with a good player, played a little bit in NFL. Coach had some really good success there in a down year and, you know, and then he gets called to the carpet kind of holla, you know, stuff where you guys think they're asking him to take a pay cut and put that money towards signing people in NIL and staff changes, so forth and so on. I can almost guarantee you've probably caught off guard by the, I guess, you know, essentially, you know, drawing the line in a sand of what you need to do in order to continue to be the head coach. It's fascinating, Jay, because this is a guy that's had some fantastic success in Oklahoma State. He's been an upper level coach for them and just two years ago, they were playing for the Big 12 championship game. They end up a yard short of potentially going to the college football playoff. Would have been an outside shot, but they were, you know, the very least in the conversation. They go for it, try to stretch for that left pylon. Don't get the touchdown. Baylor ends up winning that one, but the tweet from Pete Thamel that I saw said that he's telling people the Oklahoma State came to him and asked him to take a restructured contract, which would include a pay cut and that money would go toward NIL. But as of, I saw the tweet at 130 today, Oklahoma State didn't tell them what was in the new contract. They just said, except this new deal, or we're going to find a way to fire you with cause. That is cold blooded for a guy that, yeah, had a bad year and put the fan base on blast earlier this year. But he's one of the best coaches in Oklahoma State history, regardless of sport. It might be time for a break. It might be time to move on, but holy cow, how disappointing and sad that it came to this level of drama. Yeah, you know, look, you always want to handle this situation with white gloves and, and, and, and handle it with, you know, good nature. I just think, unless he did something really, really wrong, I definitely think this approach is not right. You don't want, I mean, taking the force in the mouth, you know, really take a pay cut. I mean, he, he could probably fight the cause thing. Now, listen, when you've been there as long as he has, and, you know, let's face it, I've done to a wild boy, you know what I'm saying? I mean, he, he, he gets after his crew gets out. I like Mike Gundy. Um, now I think he probably, you know, got a little bit, you know, overseas and some of the stuff he says, you know, at times, but I like him. Um, I, I don't, you know, unless it's something like really, really bad. Now, I think I could be wrong. I just think that, you know, if you're, if you're really trying to get, you know, obviously they're, they're trying to get rid of them. I mean, let's be honest. They're, they're trying to really flip his wings and then really walk the plank next year, and knowing it's not going to work. Essentially, it was, it's not even a swan song. It's an embarrassment like, uh, if you watch Game of Thrones where they kind of make you, you know, the, the shame walk, that's essentially what they're doing. Uh, we can put yourself out. He will put your business out there on blast. If you know they'll release it and we can fire your forecaused and take this deal, or we're going to embarrass you. And so, um, it'll be interesting. I'm sure Mike, Mike, the Gundy has talked to his agent and or lawyers. If they're the same person or the Bennett Kahoot and he's definitely going to try to find a way to, um, you know, handle it. What, what, you know, the best way that's going to work out for him, because no matter what, I don't even know if this relationship can be prepared, even if it's a decent contract. It's the way it seems, just from what we've read in this tweet, how they've went about it is not even close to, you know, respectable. It's not again, for a guy that's given a lot to that, that university, and it's, it's had its ups and it's had its downs. But Jay, maybe now is the time. Maybe it's not the time, but Oklahoma State has to be right. This isn't a program that's so destitute and desperate. 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For resources, not a powerhouse necessarily, but mean that that t-boon pickens oil money certainly is still flowing into the football program, just like it is the basketball program. Oklahoma State is in an interesting spot because it's still a winnable big 12 in football, right? There's no reason Oklahoma State can't be that team that's in the top four or five of that conference every year. They bought him out this year despite having some of the most returning production in America. One of the best running backs in America and a guy by the name of Ollie Gordon, who declared for the NFL draft today, but Oklahoma State has to be careful and manage the situation as delicately with white gloves as possible because if it is time to move on, they probably know better than the rest of us do. If it's gotten to the point where it's untenable, okay, you just got to make the move so stuff doesn't get more awkward and you just kick the can down the road, but you got to make sure you don't hire your version of Brent Venables, right? You can't afford to be a five and seven to seven and five team in a big 12 conference that right now isn't getting much respect, Jay. The big 12 conference champion is going to be ranked behind Boise State in the college football playoff rankings. If Boise State ends up winning, big 12 team is probably going to have to go on the road in the first round despite being a conference champion. Oh, Oklahoma State, if they get, if they get to the point where firing Mike Gundy is the move, they can't afford a misstep hire. They have to get it right because they have such an opportunity to kind of set the pace, set the tone for how football is going to go in the new big 12. Yeah, you know, and also often, I mean, all your points are great, but let's not forget Mike Gundy and his personality is what made Oklahoma State appealing. Sure. So you're going to, you can't, you can't go get, I mean, you know, first, I'm thinking maybe Jim the old, he's a little bit older. So you can't really, you know, kind of go with like your Brent Venables. You're going to have to find somebody that fits Oklahoma State. You can't afford, like you said, at this point in time, to rebrand it, you don't have to do apples to apples like, you know, Wild Boy 2.0. And I think something that this is, you know, personality, right, where, you know, Mike Gundy can be a little bit outlandish, but you got to make sure you have to find somebody that fits that willing to move forward in this new era of revenue sharing. You should be able to, was obviously, was, was, was Mr. Pickings being able to, he put a money aside, you should be able to be more competitive even next year. So yes, you need, you're trying to get Mike Gundy to pay for NIL. Yes, you're trying to make him his words because he hated, you know, his wanting to come in and, you know, talk about NIL. I remember his famous quote was, now we know what once training can't start, there's no more talking. Well, I'm sure he had some disgruntled players that have potentially went through the portal or potentially in the portal. And you have, you know, the running back declaring, you know, Holly Gordon, who's a great runner. And then, you know, just be clear for the captain, maybe that's part of it. You know, you think you'd like to keep him back because he had a good year, not a great year and a pretty deep class of running backs. And you'd like to bring him back to make another run. But when you're three and nine, you definitely were expecting to be nine and three in a very gettable, big 12, whereas there's obviously a ton of parity and a lot of letdown, you know, you know, you start to get, you know, getting people cross there. So, you know, it'll be interesting to see how they both, both sides proceed. Because it's also like, it's probably not the best time to make a break from a high kind of coach in Stillwater across all sports through administration, be the city in the state of Oklahoma. And I want to tell you that I always thought something was weird, whereas it got out on Twitter where Mike Dundee, you know, put this property up for sale. Yeah, that was always interesting to me because he's an Oklahoma guy. You can't get much better property than that. I mean, it's like, you know, millions of acres. And then you can't, I mean, he's pretty much built a little mini, you know, little, little city there for himself. And you put that out for sale. It's right there was like, okay, maybe he's thinking about moving on and getting out on coaching or maybe trying to see what he could do. But ultimately, that didn't happen before the season. But now they said, you know what, we were going to make a decision, but we're going to make you break up with it. That's the thing that's bad. We're going to, we're going to make it so miserable. We're going to make you leave and try to make you the bad guy. And you better do it under our term thrills. And like I said, the underlying thing could be when it was a 1920 years and being a head coach, there probably a lot of stuff that was done, maybe just, you know, in hiding or swept underneath the rug. Now they want to bring it back up like there's no timetable to let it go. So now you're creating a, you know, bad brings, you know, kind of almost like, well, because of my, you remember what one Bobby Knight left, Indiana? Oh, that was so, so ugly. There was ugly. And he found, he found, you know, obviously, you know, success in Texas Tech. But the way he left Indiana, yes, and Bobby, Bobby Knight was a, was a light people, lightning rock. But what he did for Indiana, and I know he had some issues, I'm not saying that, but the breakup was not, and that was hard to watch, just because there probably wasn't a good way to do it, but they're a good way or a bad way. But the way they did it definitely, you know, was bad. So hopefully, you know, Mike Gundy goes on the state, you know, maybe things that we can get cooler heads and then they can figure out a respectable way to partway. I think that's an interesting comparison. Obviously, Mike Gundy and Bob Knight aren't the same person. I would give Bob Knight maybe a little bit of an edge in terms of tactics and scheme and excess nose and all of that. Yeah, and had some higher level success than Gundy did. But I do think that where there are some similarities is just that force of personality. And Jay, I think if Oklahoma State had come to the spot with Mike Gundy where, you know, he was either an offensive mastermind and the big 12 had caught up to his schemes or he was a defensive guru and the league was changing around him. His defense was old and antiquated, but he was hanging his hat on scheme. That's an easier guy to get rid of, right? Oh, sorry. Yep, you're not in vogue anymore. You're not adjusting. You're not hiring the right coordinators. So you got to go. Problem is that was never really what Mike Gundy hung his hat on. Mike Gundy was always kind of this CEO coach without really a position specialty. He was just a football coach, right? We would get involved pretty much everywhere, but was the face of the program? So I think it's a little harder even for Oklahoma State to move on from the personality or the CEO role type of coach because of everything he's meant to the university. It's not like he's fallen behind. He just hasn't made the right hires and things are maybe just a little out of his grip and control right now. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's just interesting, you know, it's like, you know, I guess, you know, how fed up could they be? What could it be that you want to pull out? You know, it's like, you turn your, you know, you turn the blind eye while it was happening. Maybe like, you know, like you said a couple years ago, you're, you're one yard for possibly getting the college football playoffs. And let's be honest, if Oklahoma State has made the college football playoffs, he would go down as the greatest coach in Oklahoma history, then bar none, you know, bar any sport. And it didn't, but you know, it's really, when you think it's two football seasons, it's really like 18 months. And so a lot of things can change, college football has changed, you know, three times since then probably it's changing again here in 2025. And yeah, you could maybe, and also what you have to look and we'd have to do a lot more digging is have the decision makers gotten younger, where they don't understand, they don't know who he was to the player, what he's done and when he's been able to keep Oklahoma State relevant, you know, when the, you know, back like, you know, when Oklahoma was really rolling and they were like kind of like the little, little brother that didn't get respect. He made him respectable. He made that, that I mean, made that, you know, obviously it must be game. And so you'd be interested to see what all the more details come out, but then ultimately it come Monday or probably late Sunday night, if they can't come to hopefully some sort of conclusion or decide to partway. That's just the thing. And Jay, we have this from eight zero one eight on the text line, pointing out that Mike Gundy and Dana Holgerson coached together for a year. Eight zero one eight things that Mike Gundy, you know, could be on Nebraska's radar as the guy that he would like to see Nebraska bring in. Do you think there would be a role behind the scenes for Mike Gundy? I don't think he's a position coach by any stretch of the imagination right now. Would you like a personality as big as Mike Gundy's, you know, with Matt Rool's ear or in the front office for Nebraska football? I mean, I think, well, I think Dana got, I don't know, I don't know Dana personally, but I think he's got a lot of personality. So I think, yeah, he's got that cover. And plus, I think at this point, you know, with Mike Gundy and his crowd with as a offensive play caller, unless I don't know the relationship between those three, I can't really, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, I can't, you know, I can't say, I just think that it might be a little bit too much. And I think it Mike Gundy has to partway through Oklahoma or from Oklahoma State, excuse me. I think he, I could see him taking a year off and then trying to figure out where his next lane to pop. I'd be very surprised if he decided to not coach. I'm with you. I mean, there's going to be a spot for Mike Gundy in college football at some point, but I'm with you. He strikes me as a year off guy, right? Reassess the situation around him, try to find that, that right fit, whether it's a, you know, max school, a sunbelt school, a coordinator or a front office guy. But we'll leave her on the text line. It says, when you break up like that, who would want to, to walk back into that situation, right? Who wants to pick up the pieces there? And I think there's a couple of different coaches that Oklahoma State would be looking for, Jay, not in terms of specific names. Oklahoma State could go the route of the whiz kid, the up and comer, kind of the hot commodity. I think they'd have the resources to make something like that work. But I could also see Oklahoma State wanting a veteran, a proven coach, thinking they have enough pieces on the roster and maybe needing a big personality to come in and smooth some of these things over because I don't think this is purely a booster move. I do think some of it is on the field. But we know, you know that there's a, there's a lot of talking that goes on down in Texas, in Oklahoma. And when there's money like that being thrown around some big powerful people in control, they're going to want your ear, they're going to want control and make decisions. I think Oklahoma State could get away with a young first time or second time head coach if he has the right staff around him. But Oklahoma State might also just need another big personality to come in to take control of the situation and be the adult in the room. You know, they have options. I think they got more money than people really getting credit for down there in Oklahoma. Big time proceeds, obviously, and they can make a move and they probably have projected, you know, what the, what the buyout would be if they try to do a cause and all this other stuff. You know, I think when they throw out that cause, they, that's just kind of, you know, to get your attention. You know, I can see them. I don't think they see them going like the one or, you know, the one or two year, well, the first or second year coordinator that, you know, hit it big was, you know, said, said Power 4 Blue Blood School. I think they would get a more middle age, you know, like upper 30s, lower 40s, well established, not only, you know, figurehead, but he'll be a offensive defense guru. And I'll be honest with you, in the day and age, you're gonna have to have somebody that, you know, either associated or is or what, I guess, or was a former, you know, offensive minded coach. And that certainly doesn't have to be like a fun and gun. You could be a very good and efficient offensive minded coach like Jim Harbaugh, you know, where you understand situational football, line of tremor and so forth and so on. But also this new person, this new coach, if it goes as far past the maps, the identity of Oklahoma State presently, or a new version of Oklahoma State. And if it's a new version of Oklahoma State, even though they have, you know, really good, you know, recruiting, like, you know, foundation there in Oklahoma and now see Texas and stuff like that, it will take a while because not only will Mike Gundy, you know, be gone, it's the fabric. I always talk about the fabric of the, you know, the football department of that team and who can do it. I mean, you know, you know, it's kind of funny is a former teammate of mine, Kenyatta Wright is their GM and business development guy. And I wanted to, I just want to talk to about some other stuff, but, you know, he said he was in a staff meeting. So it was the same staff meeting that they were talking about. And I mean, he said, what time are you going to be available? And I didn't even reply. And I told him, you know, I replied, I said, after three, he said, well, I don't know if I'll be available then by the end of his weekend. So I think that Gallop's plug is definitely going to plug some holes down there with, you know, Mike Gundy. Let me ask you about that, Jay. Obviously, Oklahoma State and Oklahoma are not in the same conference anymore with Oklahoma's gem to the SEC. But I think Oklahoma State's identity will always be tied to Oklahoma. The the Sooners are the blue blood. They can get anyone. They get first dibs of anyone in the in the state and in the region. Right. So it's the bigger school. What is Oklahoma State's identity? What does that school have to lean into in the big 12 and with whatever comes down the pipe? Well, I think it's quarterback play and skill position play. That's on both sides of the ball corners and receivers. They've had good safety and actually they got a really good linebacker this year that actually declared for the draft. And so I think, you know, you know, they'll get a pass rusher here, you know, here and there. But I think generally the skill position, you know, what they have to tap into. And I think if they could, you know, lean on, you know, you know, high pace, high corn, and then obviously was, you know, high turnovers, like they like they were, they've got enough size, you know, they get a good defensive lineman and be able to be competitive there. They got to just get consistent. You look down on quarterback, come back, have potentially extraordinary defenders wasn't there. You're looking at, you know, second third team, all big 12 new projections. He had Ollie coming back, you know, he was all American caliber. And you know, they always got receivers. And then you got a draft eligible linebacker and guys like that. So that's where I think the letdown was with Oklahoma State this year. You didn't reach, you know, any expectations, both on the field and off the field. We know that, you know, Ollie got the, you know, the DUI and then, you know, my Gandhi kind of said, you know, yeah, what disciplinary, you're being a disciplinary, you know, action for them. But it was, you know, it was going to be very minimal. That is something that at the point in time, if they had been nine and three, no big deal. But when you three and nine, they're like, oh, you're not tough enough on them. So, you know, you got to be aware of where you're at, when, you know, when things happen, how you get to handle it, be going to come back and bite you in the butt, you know, along with some other things, you know, in the future. They want to, you know, decide whether they want to keep you in that. That's Jay Foreman, a Huffsker Hall of Famer, host of old school with us on our alibi vip line. Jay, I'd say we'll let you go. But we're going to hear from you next segment as well. What did you pre-record for the people? Yeah, we did some pre-record. It's about 20 minutes. I think, you know, what I did, you know, maybe, you know, cut a little short, you know, we talked about this, you know, the 105. What, you know, I did the three states of where, you know, or you know, it's actually two. Where in Nebraska, that is actually the hardest place to be, 66 is the hardest place to be, because that means you're really, really appealing to the factors that want to lead. But then also, I call them the leeches of college football, where people are going to leech on to you, where you've shown enough growth, where you can feel like they can make money off you. But then also, not make money off it. Let me draw that back where other teams can come in and like pick at your roster, right? Sure. And then I talked about being four and eight versus eight and four. You know, four and eight, you don't think anybody wants you eight and four, you're right on the doorstep. So you're going to hold, you know, you're going to not let go of the rope. So six and six and actually, you know, a little bit harder place to be at. So you got to really do a really good job of retention rate. And then out the, you know, hitting the portal and the high scoring. There you go. You'll hear from Jay, his expanded thoughts on that coming up next. Jay, safe travels team on him, man. All right. All right, man. Jay joined us on our VIP line brought to you by Al if I were where they understand the importance of exceptional service with local heart. Well, here's some more from Jay, then Elena from upside is coming in to tell us where you can watch UFC this weekend. Don't go anywhere more from Oscar Hall of Famer Jay Forman next on old school. How do you feel when you switch to Geico and save on your car insurance? It's like going to work on one Thursday morning and thinking to yourself just one more day until Friday. But then somebody in the elevator says, happy Friday. Then you check your phone quickly and discover today is actually Friday. So yes, happy Friday, random stranger in the elevator. Happy Friday indeed. Yep, switching and saving with Geico feels just like that. Get more with Geico. In premier passo de suijo es un grand passo aceso futuro con first step. They college invest oto sloninios nacidos oado todos en colorado a partr del uno de narrow del dos milveinte reciviran una country vision gratuita de siento quin cedolaris en sequenta de auro de college invest ademas eva la remos un percenta hedeso's country visiones el ocientes años en scrivas ao y para que suijo communes a con el piederecho visit e colorado first step ponto o errehe.