Ken Meyer interviews former Red Sox pitcher & Hall of Famer Jim Lonborg about his background in baseball, signing with the Red Sox in 1963, former management and teammates, the "Impossible Dream" season, the "brawl in the Bronx", being traded away from the Sox to the Brewers, playing on the Phillies, how baseball has changed over the years, & much more!
WBCA Podcasts
City Talk with Ken Meyer (Jim Lonborg)
(upbeat music) - WBCA radio is proud to present City Talk, where fascinating conversation is alive and well. With your host, Boston radio veteran, Ken Meyer. - Ron Borg is with "End One Out" of his biggest victory ever, his 22nd of the year, and his first over the twins. The pitch is looped towards shortstop, Petrocelli's back, he's got it, the Red Sox win. And the body of Mama Feo. (crowd cheering) - Well, when you talk about Boston Red Sox, one name that will always be forever embedded in everybody's mind is gentleman Jim Lon Borg. And he is with us on this edition of City Talk. And Jim, it's a real thrill for me to be able to do this with you, because as I told you, you were the first ballplayer I met when I came to college here in Boston in 1967. - Well, that was a long time ago, Ken. - Yeah, yeah, it sure was, it sure was. But let's talk a little bit about, well, first of all, I think you should tell us about your grandson's team. They're in a Super Bowl. So your grandson's in a Super Bowl. - Yeah, they are, he's a sophomore at Sitchwood High School. He's on the Junivarth City team, but the Barth City team was, I think, 12-0 this summer, or this last season, they have a really strong team. They're playing a Duxbury. Historically, Duxbury beat them last year in the Super Bowl at Gillette Stadium, 63 to 22, I think it was. So, so Sitchwood is out for revenge. And at this point in time, they are at 22 to nothing. It's just before the half. So, they look like they're gonna be just fine. - Tell me a little bit about you. What got you into sports and how did you hook up to the Boston Red Sox? - Well, I think growing up in California, sports is something that it's very easy to get involved with because the weather is so good. I just, we had a little league field, a little park right down one block away from my house that all of the kids used to just walk down. Those are the days where you could leave the house in the afternoon and your mom would say, you know, be home by dinner time. And we just walked down and we start pick up games and figure out ways just to spend the day. Baseball was my favorite. I did play basketball in high school, but little league baseball came into San Luis Obispo when I was 10 years old. And so that was the first organized part of baseball that I got involved with. And coincidentally, the name of our team was the Kiwanis Red Sox. You know, not knowing that, you know, I would eventually be playing, you know, with the Red Sox, our coach. He actually, when the season was over, he wrote to the Red Sox and asked that some of the team members could send out some autographed pictures of the players that he wanted to give out as awards to everybody that had played on the team. And they were kind enough to send out a whole bunch of pictures. And the guy that I got was a guy by the name of Mel Parnell, who was one of the all-time great lieutenant pictures for the Red Sox at the time. - Yep, I know the name. I never, I'm too young to have seen him pitch, but he did some broadcasting for them for a while. So I certainly am familiar with the name Mel Parnell, but how did you, what happened from there to get you into Boston? - Well, it was just a progression of going through all the different sports, as I said, I played basketball too. And so I was through high school. I had a very big growth spurt that didn't really allow my body to catch up and have a lot of great skills. There were some skills there, but I was basically a basketball player, and I went to Stanford on a basketball scholarship initially. When I got to Stanford, the guy that was in front of me was the guy by the name of Tom Dose. He went on to set up all-time scoring records at Stanford. And I looked at my chances of playing a lot of basketball and I didn't see that opportunity there. So I actually tried out for the baseball team. I was a walk-on, that was the days when you had a freshman team and then you had a JV team and then you had a Varsity team. So I made the freshman team. And through the next few years, all of a sudden my body started to get stronger and stronger. I placed in summer ball up in Everett, Washington in the summer of '62. I ended up playing in the Basin League, which is a summer ball league, very similar to the Cape Cod League that we have back here in New England. And that summer of '63, a lot of things fell together. Physically, I matured, I was throwing the ball harder and it took notice of the scouts and the Red Sox were. One of the teams that were following me at the time, they offered me a contract that I thought was very cool and I signed with them. It went for about like $18,000. But back in 1963, that was a lot of money and I was very happy with it and took their offer and then the rest was history. - And you came up to the Red Sox what year? - So in 1964, I went to spring training. They initially, they wanted me to pitch at 11, to pitch at a level where I would be successful. So they started me off and what they call a ball. And that team was located in Winston-Salem, North Carolina. So I went to Winston-Salem and I was there for about six weeks, eight weeks maybe and was about seven and two. So at that time, they felt that I could jump to a higher league. Well, I didn't go to AA. They sent me to AAA. A lot of that I think had to do with the fact that when you played baseball at Stanford, you were at a very high collegiate level where the competition was strong. And so I was moved up to San Washington. I finished out the year there. And it wasn't a great year, but it was a learning year and the Red Sox decided that I was worthy to be called up to the big club. And so in 1965, I went to spring training and Scottsdale, Arizona made the team and had a decent year for a rookie of nine and 17, but I was healthy and showed a lot of promise and things just kept getting better. - Was Willie Herman your manager at the time? - Billy Herman was the first manager in 1965, yes. - And how did you get along with Billy Herman? - Oh, he was a very easy guy to get along with. He was a great manager to have as a rookie. You know, obviously the Red Sox weren't doing that well in the early '60s, so there weren't a lot of expectations. So he was very patient with me and very kind to me and very instructive oriented to help me just get better and admit a lot because I was able to, you know, get through the summer and learn a lot about what it meant to be a big league pitcher. - Now your next manager was, I guess you could say the hero of the year at the time, a fellow named Dick Williams. What were the differences between him and Herman? And how did you get along with Dick? - Well, Dick definitely had a different style. He had just come from the Toronto Triple A team where he was very successful. He knew that this team was ready to have a good season. One of the reasons why he knew that was because the second half of the 1966 season, we had the second best record and all the American League, which meant that for us to end up in the last place were horrible the first half of the season, but we really gelled together as a team. The last half of '66 and so he knew that he had a team that was about ready to break loose. He wanted to make sure that we played up to expectations. So he was tough on us. He didn't like mistakes. He let us know. Everyone who made him, he didn't like you to make the mistake twice. So he was very sarcastic, but he made you feel like you had to prove to him that you were better than he thought you were. And that's the kind of thing that motivated me because I didn't like making mistakes, but I didn't like getting yelled at either. So I proved to him that I was better than he thought I was at the time. So he was good in that way, bad that it wasn't much fun playing with him sometimes. But when you look at the end of the season, you had to be happy with what the results were. Tell me your memories of Tony Kanigliar. - Oh, there's so many, I've got a chance to see him in '65 and then watch him improve as a hitter through '66 and then he was just getting ready to make a, he'd already made a big name. He had the most come runs in a three year period of any young Red Sox player and then tragically he got hit. It was a baseball thrown by a guy by the name of Jack Hamilton. One of Tony's disadvantages as a hitter was that he waited so long to react to hitting the pitch and then waiting that long. He had very quick risks. He could really respond to it swing very quickly. But one of the negative sides of it is that that ball was up and in around your head. You weren't gonna have a chance to get out of the way and that's what happened with Tony on that particular pitch. - People will always remember, thanks to the impossible dream album, a day in Yankee Stadium in early April. When a fellow named Bobby, I mean Billy Roar almost had a no hitter. What was it like in the dugout? Did you guys talk about it during the game? And did anybody talk to him or did they just let him go sit in the corner and afraid to speak to him? - Yeah, those are the days where you just kind of left the picture alone, you know, especially the fact that he was a rookie. - You didn't, you wanted him to stay in his own thoughts. Aaronic part of that was that he and I were roommates and so the night before he kept me up till God knows when. You know, asking me, what do I do with this? And how do I pitch this guy? And I said, Billy, you're left handed. Your stuff is different than my stuff. But you know, just a matter of trying to get him calmed down and getting to sleep so that he would be well-rested at the next day. So it was just, you know, just let things happen. You know, he has made that one great catch out in the left field. And then, you know, unfortunately, Elston Howard got the hit off of him in the ninth inning. But it was still a heck of a way to stretch a major league career. - Yep, is Strumsky made the catch and he caught it off the bat of a guy named Tom Trish, as I remember. And you almost had a no hitter that year in Cleveland or against Cleveland. - Yeah, you know, I guess I did, you know, when you don't when you don't get it, it just turns out to be just like another regular game. I actually had a no hitter going against the Angels also that year that I lost in the ninth inning. And, you know, and we ended up losing the game two to one. So those, you know, when you don't win a game, the highlights of having thrown a no hitter are kind of dispersed to the background. You don't think about it too much. - Yeah, but doesn't that kind of, isn't that kind of discouraging when something like that happens? I mean, you're that close, especially in the ninth inning. And then for whatever reason you lose it, does it take a long time to get over that? - Oh, not at all, you know, when you're a pitcher and you're going out there every fourth day, you have to know what we call turn the page. You have to just pretty much basically, you know, wipe the slate clean and start preparing for the next game. If you harbor any kind of discouragement or frustration, it's not gonna help you improve and get ready for your next game. And that's something that coaches are always reminding you of and helping you with. And, you know, your teammates are there because it's just, it's like that old Bob Singer song, you know, "Turn the Page" and that's what you have to do. - Yeah, talk about, I know you've done it before because it's history and it's magical and something special. And I heard Phyllis Pazito talk about the Boston Bruins and say that they owned Boston. Did you guys feel that way in 1967? - You know, not early in the season. I think it took a little while for the Boston fans to realize what a unique team that we had at the time. And I think probably the most important moment during that season was when we came home from a 10 game road streak. And we won every single game. And when we flew into Logan Airport that night, we had a charter plane that normally would have just gone right to the gate and we would have got off the plane and gone on our ways. But there happened to be 5,000 to 6,000 people waiting at Logan Airport, you know, in the airport itself, on the tarmac and the pilot head to avert the plane to another part of the airport so that we can disembark just for safety reasons. That's when we all knew that Boston had embraced us as a team and I think that from then on, the guys did the, you know, the rest of it, the car used to keep games, the Jose Santiago games, the games where Jerry Adeir would hit a home. Everybody had an integral part in making that team what it was, we were a fun, fun team to watch. - There is something called the brawl in the Bronx and you were mixed up in it, tell us about it. - Yeah, it was a very unique moment. It happens all the time, more so back then than it does now. But Joe Foy, we were in New York City and Yankee Stadium and Joe Foy had a grand slam home run the night before to win the ball game. So we come in to the next day game, Thad Tillitson is pitching and Joe Foy hits a three run homer up at Thad Tillitson in the first inning to get our side started and he comes up I think in the third inning at Tillitson misses twice with a pitch trying to knock him down and then the third time he hits him in the head with a fastball. You know, thank God Joe was all right. He had one of those protective helmets on and we all pretty much knew of what it's intimidation. Pitchers don't like players feeling that comfortable at home plate that they can keep doing that kind of damage. And so Tillitson comes up in the bottom of the fifth inning and we're ahead like five to one, five to two, Ralph Halke is the manager. Kind of surprised that he left Tillitson in 'cause normally in game situations like that you would pinch hit for the pitcher and try to score some runs. But Tillitson came up with the plate and I knew what I was gonna do and I was gonna retaliate for what he had done to Joe Foy. I never, my form of retaliation is to aim for somewhere in the meaty part of the body which is, you know, the middle of the back or something but never, never, never at the head. And so I hit Tillitson in the middle of the back and he's John Amaz. He's running down the first base or walking down the first base. And, you know, he says, "You gotta hit two." And I says, "Yeah, I don't care." It is what it is. And then Peptone and Petrasselli started a genre at each other and then they ended up having one of those little scrimmages on the first base section of the field. It's a fun little video. You know, nobody was hurt. We went on to win the ball game but it was just one of the things that kind of pulls you together at a team to know that you've got a picture out there that's gonna stand up for your hitters and they feel really good about that. Woo. Tillitson will go to first. And he and Ron Borg are exchanging words now. And some of the Yankees are starting to come out of the dugout just as separate. So, well, Pops go Peptone and I'll go boys in it. And the umpires are converging as boy in order to get close to him. The Yankee ball club is up there and starting to slowly come out of the red spot. (crowd cheering) And it's getting hot, they go Peptone as they go to him here at Yankee Stadium. Out of the bullpen, they're coming now. Both both pans out. And they're trying to restore orders. And it's Pepticelli that you saw there in that close-up shot. And now it's spreading over a little bit towards second base. Bad Tillitson hit by a long-board pitch. Said something to him and Tillitson, of course, had hit boy and then boy started saying something and you can see some of the Yankees coming out of the game. He's coming out of the game. He's coming out of the game. He's coming out of the game. He's coming out of the game. The Yankees coming out and from that point on it started. World Series, I think you pitched the seventh game with two days rest. You think if it had been three or four days instead of two, we might've had a world championship? Oh, it's possible. I think the big thing that you have to remember is that there was another guy on the other side of the field by the name of Bob Gibson. I heard him. And he was pitching, I pitched on two days rest. He was pitching on three days rest that he normally pitched with four days rest. So he was compromised also. And as good a pitcher as he was during that World Series, I don't know if it would've made any difference. I do know that in order for us to beat them, that we would've had to score early off of them because the more he got warmed up, the stronger he got. That's exactly what happened. And so it just wasn't meant to be. - Here's an interesting question. Do you think that the 67 Red Sox would have beaten the 75 Reds in a World Series? - The 75 Reds. That's a hard comparison. I'm trying to think that Reds team was a very, very good baseball team. I have a feeling with the talent that was on that team that they probably would've beaten this 'cause granted we had a great team, but we didn't have nearly the kind of stars that the Reds had on their team. - 1968, kind of a rough year for you. - Yeah, I'd suffered an ear injury in the off season. And so I was not able to compete at a high level 'cause I was still under a lot of recovery, physical therapy, you know, a lot of healing that needed to take place. And so there was just no way that my body was gonna be 100% ready to pitch like it had the previous year. So there was a learning process for me. I, you know, probably tried to come back too soon because I wanted it and I was young and I felt like it was healthy, but I kept getting her arms and stuff like that. So it was just a, there was a learning experience for me. It didn't destroy my career, but it was a setback at the time. - Following year, Dick Williams was let go. I mean, only two years before he was a hero 'cause they won the pennant. And two years later, he's gone. What do you think caused it? And did you agree with it at the time? - You know, I'm not sure. I can't remember what the dynamics of it were, you know, with regard to, you know, maybe the front office wasn't happy with the way he was managing the team. I don't know, maybe they didn't get along with his personality after a couple of years. I really cannot remember what, if there was one particular moment or if it was a just succession of moments that decide that the front office decided to let go of Dick and move on. So I really don't know, Kim. - But you got traded, spent some time in Philadelphia and I think Milwaukee. - Correct. - It must have hurt to leave the team that eventually resigned in here. And how did you find out about it? I mean, I've heard stories about guys getting traded and hearing it on the radio or somebody, one of his teammates calls and says, "Hey, did you know you've been traded?" - Yeah, it was the winter of 1970, 71. And I had finished really strongly. I felt really good about, you know, the direction that I was taking with regard to the recovery and I got a phone call late in the night, might've been around 11.30 at night. It was from a reporter in Milwaukee, was during the winter meetings. And he said, you know, basically, how does you feel about the trade? And I said, "What trade?" And he told me about the big block bluster trade that had taken place between the brewers and the Red Sox. And I said, "Well, that's pretty amazing." And my wife who was sitting next to me and says, "I didn't know they had a baseball team in Milwaukee." So I'm coincidentally Kenny Brett was living in the apartment just below of St. Boston. And he was part of the trade. So after we hung up the phone, we ran downstairs and talked to Kenny and he was very surprised too. But it was, you know, I was able to go to Milwaukee and have a great year. It was a great recovery year for us. - And I've always heard stories about the fans in Philadelphia. You know, the old cliche of, they would boo a funeral. How did you find the fans in Philly? - Well, if I would have gone down there and started off very well, I think I might not have noticed it too much, but I went down to Philly and I didn't get up to a good start. I had the, I think I had a rocky three or four initial starts with the Phillies. So you're correct. They like to pretty much let people know how unhappy they are. They're very vocal about it. But you know what? By that time I've been in the big leagues for seven, eight years. That's, my skin was pretty thick by then. So it doesn't, you know, you just have to be patient and you basically tune that stuff out of anyway when you're pitching and playing. So it probably bothered my family or it bothered me. - And what made you decide to retire? - You know, basically I didn't have any choice in the matter. I knew that my arm was not nearly as strong as it had been. And so I was hoping for one last chance in '79. I didn't think I was gonna make it through spring training. I thought I'd probably get released in spring training. But a couple of their pitchers were injured and so I was able to stay with the team for a couple of months. And so, I mean, it was, I knew it. You know, when guys start getting hits off of you, this shouldn't be getting hits off of you. It is the signals that are out there and you just accept it and you move on. - Now, they lowered the mound after 1968. They called it the year of the pitcher and that was the year that a fellow named Gibson had a, yeah, I'll never forget it. An ERA of 1.12 for the season. Did the lowering of the mound help you at all? - It didn't affect me at all. I had a different kind of a delivery and I threw up all a sinker as opposed to a foreseen fastball. And I'm sure that the higher mound allowed you to get a little more acceleration, but it didn't bother me at all. That's the one thing about pitching. We all can adjust to whatever the circumstances were. And I mean, whether they would have lowered the mound or not rolled the mound, you weren't going to stop a guy like Bob Gibson and you weren't going to stop a guy like Denny McLean who won 31 games that year. So it was just something I guess they felt had to be done and I guess they feel like it works. So I don't know. - The game has changed a great deal. For a couple hundred bucks now, you buy a grandstand seat. When I went to Fenway Park in 1967, I could buy a box seat for 350. How does this, does this depression that baseball has turned out this way? And you know, ball players are offered 10 or 11 year contracts. Is that depressing? It is to me. - You know, I still love watching baseball. I still love listening to it on the radio and I don't know that it's depressing for me because I'm more sad for the general population that isn't going to get a chance to watch ball games the way you were able to watch ball games. But somehow they seem to find a way, attendance records keeps getting broken. And people find a way, you know, I think thank God for television and for radio that people can still follow the game without actually having to sit in the ball park, so. - Oh, I love it. Yeah, I think it's great to sit here and listen to a guy like John Miller in San Francisco with FM quality. I can't get over that. I think that's great. A pitch clock, would that have helped you at all? Or was it beneficial this year, do you think? - Oh, it was definitely beneficial. It wouldn't have bothered me. I was pitched quick anyway. I was never one to Dilly Dally on the mound. But I think just the numbers tell the story. The games are 30 minutes shorter. Pictures responded very, very well to the challenge. You know, it was really good for baseball. - I can't believe any more myself that baseball ends at the end of October around Halloween with playoffs and of course the World Series and everything. But I don't think it should be that law. I mean, I know they get more, the owners get more money, but still I somehow playing ball in 30 degree weather just doesn't, you know, I'd never go to a ball game at that hour. I used to do it on opening day sometimes, but I'd never do it in October for a playoff or World Series. - Well, you know, I understand that there's a couple positives about it. I think it gives an opportunity for some teams that are finishing up in a season really strongly and gives them an opportunity to get into playoffs and gives them an opportunity to, you know, get into a World Series, you know, with all the divisional races and things that. The only sad thing about it is that really say the strongest team that was there all summer long might catch a team that just got hot, you know, is that fair that they should, you know, be denied being in the World Series? That's just probably an emotional sit down kind of feeling, but you know, it just, it does give more talents and cities an opportunity to see their teams, you know, play in the postseason, that's a good thing. - How'd you become a dentist? - Ah, that was just a combination of conversations. I was a pre-med student at Stanford and I had wanted to be an orthopedic surgeon. I worked in hospitals and off seasons with Buddy LaRue here in Boston at the Nurgen rehab. I just always enjoyed healthcare and when we were finished up in '79, my wife and I took the vacation up to Strand and Vermont to discuss what our future was gonna be and on the way up there, she casually asked me, "Well, why don't you become a dentist?" You know, you've always looked good in a uniform and, you know, you've always loved healthcare. The more we discussed it, I called Bill and Titus was a dentist for the patriots at the time and got great input from him and I called personal friends who were dentists who gave me great encouragement and thank God Tufts had a program that would allow me to get through dental school and three years is the fourth of four years 'cause we had not saved that kind of money and it all just happened, it's the best thing that, you know, in my life, it was a wonderful 34 years. - Wow, was it that? Well, I didn't realize it was that long, my gosh. - Yeah, it's a, you can be a dentist for a long time as long as you stay healthy. - Did you get, did you get any sports figures that came in to see you? - Not really, no dick rabbits, probably was the most famous sports guy I had come in to visit me and stuff, but now I was just a local dentist and tried to take care of the local population. - It's great talking to you and you really earned the name, gentleman Jim, as far as I'm concerned. You were very nice to me when I was a college student and it was great seeing you at the Ozarks luncheon in September and I wish you all the luck in the world. You're a good guy and whatever or more you can get out of life you certainly deserve. - Well, thank you very much, Ken. It's been great being part of New England, all the changes seasons that it's just been wonderful for my wife and I to raise six kids here and still feel like this is where we wanna spend the rest of our lives, so. - Well, it's interesting, we just moved to South Carolina and found out that they haven't had snow here in six years. So it's gonna be an interesting winter for us. - Yeah, you'll get through it. - Oh, we'll get through it, there's no time about that. We'll get through it. Well, listen, I again will let you go. Thank you for putting up with all my telephone calls and as I said, you really earned the name, gentleman Jim. - All right, thank you, have a nice holiday, Ken. - Thank you, you too, Jim. - All right, bye-bye. - Take care. - Thanks for listening to another great conversation with Ken Meyer and friends. You can contact Ken by email. He addresses kjmyer7@gmail.com. That's kj-m-e-y-r7@gmail.com. Tune in next time for more conversation with Ken Meyer on City Talk. (upbeat music)