Apologia Radio
474. Responding to Charlie Kirk & the Future Holocaust
Join us for the newest episode of Apologia Radio in which we deal with current events and update you on the situation in Arizona (and across the country). The Arizona House voted to repeal the territorial law that made abortion a crime. We then respond to some of Charlie Kirk's misunderstandings about Abolition.
- Duration:
- 1h 14m
- Broadcast on:
- 26 Apr 2024
- Audio Format:
- mp3
When the scribes and Pharisees asked our Lord about the greatest commandment, he replied, "You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength." So why do we hear some of today's most prominent pastors saying things like this? It had everything to do with how we talk about the Bible. And specifically, along with that, what we point to as the foundation of faith, which, for most Christians, unfortunately, is the Bible. We need to do better. We need to love God with all our hearts and stand unashamedly on the rock of His Word. We need to love the Lord with all of our souls and respond to the worldview issues of our day, with the wisdom and discernment that comes only from Him. We need to love the Lord with our minds and understand the calling of God's people in every area of life in God's world. We need to love the Lord, our God, with all our strength, and face the work of building a life-giving, God-honoring culture. Join us for four days at the Cultural Leadership Academy as we consider how the gospel influences all of life and culture and the role that we have to play in applying foundational Christian thinking to every area of life. Non-rock of boaters must stop. I don't want to rock the boat. I want to sink it. You're going to bark all day, a little doggy, or are you going to bite? Delusional is okay in your worldview. I'm an animal. You don't chastise chickens for being delusional. You don't chastise pigs for being delusional. So you call me delusional using your worldview as perfectly okay. It doesn't really hurt. It's young up on me. You! Oh my God! What? Desperate times call for faithful men and not for careful men. The careful men come later and write the biographies of the faithful men lauding them for their courage. Go into all the world and make disciples. Not go into the world and make buddies. Not to make brosives. Right. Go into the world and make homies. Right. Disciples. I've got a bit of a jiggle neck. That's a joke, Pasta. When we have the real message of truth, we cannot let somebody say their speaking truth when they're not. Take an amazing journey to a place that will blow your life. And move your mind so you will never be the same again. For to us a child is born, to us his son is given, and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name should be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace, of the increase of his government and of peace, there will be no end. On the throne of David and over his kingdom to establish it and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness from this time, forth and forevermore, the zeal of the Lord of hosts. We'll do this. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of Apology Radio. This is the gospel heard around the world, y'all. You can get more at Apologyofstudios.com. That's A-P-O-L-O-G-I-A. Apologyofstudios.com. Go there, get the past episodes, get all the content from Provoked, Cultish, Shiologians, Apology of Radio. It's all there for you guys, hundreds and hundreds of episodes for your listening and theological pleasure. Also, don't forget, when you go to Apologyofstudios.com, don't forget to sign up for your free bonds and U account. If you haven't signed up yet, you are missing out. And I mean that, bonds and U is completely for free. The life's work and treasure chest from Dr. Greg Bonson, the late Dr. Greg Bonson, given to us by the Bonson family to give to you for free. So you have access to some of the greatest philosophy, Christian philosophy, teaching, apologetics, exegesis, Christian history. It's just, don't miss it, it's the best. A bonds and U, Apologyofstudios.com, sign up for your free account, but don't forget to also sign up for all access. When you do, you get a bunch of additional content. And I was just over there on the other side with the guys working on the production that we just filmed with Dr. Kenneth Gentry, his new commentary that's been in the works for decades. On the book of Revelation, 1800 pages is being printed now, getting ready to ship actually. And so it's been a long time coming. And we had Dr. Gentry come out to do a study for Apology Academy on the book of Revelation. Very excited about that. Super, super thrilled to see it myself and to go through his commentary. But we've got that in production right now. They are cutting it as we speak. And that's going to go up to Apology Academy. So if you're all access, we want to bless you as being part of this ministry with us with all kinds of additional content. So you get the full collision episodes, Apology Academy, the after show, monthly private stream, ask me anything. And it's all there at Apologyofstudios.com. So if you're watching this content and you're blessed by it, go sign up for all access. You're going to get additional content and make everything we do possible. So that's Luke the Bear. - What up? - I'm Jeff, the Common and Ninja. And that is Zachary Conover, Director of Communications with End Abortion Now. - Hey guys. - All right. So we are here today with a very important show. And I want to just start this by saying, I fully recognize without question how exhausting this whole subject is. It is so exhausting. - No, especially when you talk about it every day. - Yeah, it's overwhelming. It's overwhelming. It's difficult. I realize there are so many other things that we want to get to. Like in the next couple of weeks, we're going to, we have a debate we're working on that's going to happen here live on the show. We want to deal with other theological issues, engagement, apologetics, teach you to defend the Christian faith, all that stuff. So that's on the agenda. We want to do that. But we cannot, in our own minds and our own hearts, be faithful in this moment by avoiding this conversation because it is overwhelming and exhausting. The title of the show today you've seen, we put up here, is "Lying Leaders, Hypocrisy and the Future Holocaust." Can you do me a favor? Can you share this episode across your social media platforms? It's very important that you do. Because we're going to talk about the future Holocaust. Now, obviously we've been in the midst of a Holocaust for the last generation, 65 million plus, and that's not even an accurate number to begin with. - That doesn't include abortifications. - That's right. Preborn children have been slaughtered in this nation. And I gave a sermon. Actually, Zach and I preached a sermon on the same text. It didn't even coordinate that. So you were up there. - You were up north and I was home at Apology Church with our church family. Preach a sermon on Proverbs 24. And rescue those who are being led away to death. And I said in that message on Sunday, I hope you get a chance to see it. I said that we are on the precipice of the bloodiest, most brutal part of this Holocaust. I know that the pro-life organizations have been shouting victory and doing victory dances and saying, Rose out of the way, we have abortion free states. That is a lie. There is not a single abortion free state in this nation. Even the states with trigger laws with no more abortion mills are not abortion free. Women have been given permission and legal immunity and the ability to do it with impunity by the pro-life establishment via their laws of partiality, unequal weights and measures saying that women ought to be able to take the lives of their children in the womb without punishment and to do it with legal protection. That is given to you on a silver platter by the pro-life establishment. And so we are in a moment and need to take me very seriously on this right now because this is the truth. We are on the precipice again of the bloodiest and most brutal part of this Holocaust. I said that we are not mopping up right now. We're in the midst of the fight and it's about to get bloodier and worse and more intense. And you might be asking like, why do you think that? And here's why I know that's true. Right now across the nation, there is a movement, a very coordinated, highly funded movement in various states across this nation, including Arizona, to work a ballot measure into the state. And the ballot measure would change the state's constitution. This is different than standard fair legislation. Yeah, bypasses that process. Bypass the whole process. It goes into the state's constitution and it essentially makes abortion legal all the way up to birth. And if you read these ballot measures, you'll see what I'm talking about. So for example, in the state of Arizona, the ballot measure allows for abortion in the state's constitution all the way up to viability. Now, when it defines viability, it's very vague, but it does say that if extreme medical procedures or help is necessary for the life of the child, then you could take the life of that child. In other words, preemies are now up for grabs with the ballot measure. And so, you know, I spent many of you guys know a couple of months very recently in two different NICUs with two babies in incubators for two whole months. And so according to these ballot measures, my girls would be up for grabs. They were born at 29 weeks and they required a heck of a lot of medical attention around the clock care, teams of doctors, respiratory therapists, nurses assigned, you know, 10 feet away from my daughter, Piper, 24 hours a day, dedicated to just her, surgeries to save her life, blood transfusions, all kinds of stuff. And so according to the ballot measure, you can kill her, you can kill her. And but then there's also additional things with the ballot measures, some of them, for example, Arizona, when you approach the subject of viability, it becomes irrelevant. Anyways, because essentially they allow for the mental health of the mother, meaning if this is somehow going to affect the mental health of the mother, and that's a very broad discussion, what's going to make you sad, you're going to have a hard time, it's likely to be difficult, you're going to be depressed. Okay, we can kill them. So when I say bloodiest, most brutal on the precipice, it's right in front of us, that's what I mean. We have not only the cowardice and the doctrinal, heretical position of the pro-life establishment, that a mother ought to be able to kill her child in the womb with legal immunity and impunity. They believe that they fight for that, they legislate for that. Not only do you have that aspect, and the fact that the establishment is not working for equal protection and abolition, you have now the ballot measure to face. It's happening in Arizona, it is going to be voted on, it's going to be something we're contending with. It's the same thing that's already happened in Ohio. So if you're wondering, is this really going to happen? It's already happened in Ohio. We had a bill of equal protection about to go in. The pro-life legislators in that state told our legislator, don't put that in, don't do that, it's going to make it to where the ballot measure is for sure going to go through. We can't do that right now, it's going to agitate the left, and guess what happened anyways, he pulled the bill, and lo and behold the ballot measure goes through anyways. Coward has got you nowhere. And one more thing about that too, the very people that were influencing and counseling the pro-life establishment in Ohio are influencing and counseling the pro-life establishment in Arizona. So you can see which way this is going. Yeah, total failure. Hi, we've failed miserably. Let's try to give you some advice. No, thank you. No, thank you. I mean, nobody thinks like that in real life, do they? I mean, nobody thinks like in just any other category of life, if you have a person that fails miserably at a task, they are an again and again and again loser. Now you're a trusted advisor. Do you go to them and say, please assist me and help me to learn how to do this? You say, no, I'm going to go for the person that is good at what they do victorious. And they've got a track record of victory. I don't go for the loser or at least a track record of consistency. Exactly. I mean, do you do? I mean, think about it like when they name the thing football, soccer, think about the sport, I mean, or guitar, learning music, martial arts. I mean, do you go to the, do you go to the school with a martial arts instructor who has like a history of nothing but losses? Or do you go to the school with the guy who actually like won a bunch? They've shown that I've got skill in this, I know what I'm doing. And why we're taking advice from people who are absolute abject losers? And so it makes no sense to me. Yeah, I was just going to say, and I'll be careful because I've been told things that I can't have not been able to confirm, but I do know this, the majority of the groups in the pro-life industry have been overall pretty quiet about this in Arizona. Yeah. There's reasons why I think that is, and if the reasons are true, it's absolutely maddening. But it's like, where is everyone at? You know, there's a very small group, honestly, that's probably smaller than an abortion now, that we were trying to partner with and help stop this battle initiative in Arizona. But that's it. Like, where's the rest of the pro-life groups? They're nowhere to be found. They're keeping quiet. And it's, I just don't understand. It's so frustrating. Well, I think one of the things that could be adding to that, Pastor Luke, is the fact that you've got the darlings of the Republican pro-life establishment, all advocating for a centrist position saying we need to loosen our grip on this issue. And so you've got people like Donald Trump, people like Kerry Lake, and others who are just saying, yeah, we need to win votes. And so let's trade the lives of these children for votes. And that's precisely what's taken place. And so you have the greatest leaders of the Republican party in the pro-life establishment saying, no, we do need to win elections. And so let's loosen our grip a bit. I mean, Susan B. Anthony, that organization, not a bastion for a lot of faithfulness, but you have them even putting out stuff like right, rape, incest, life, and the mother. I mean, that's the position of Trump. I mean, that's where we need to go. And so I need to say something, and I want to be very serious about this. I want to say right now, what is the date today? Today's April 25th, April 25th, 2024. Church, we warned you. We're not the authority here, but we're Christians within the body of Christ. And I wanted to say we warned you. So we can go back to this five years from now, 10 years from now in the Holocaust is just out of control. It already is. But when it is worse than it ever was before in our nation, I want to be able to say we sounded the alarm to the church. We told the church, if you don't stand, if you don't preach the truth, if you don't allow the truth of scripture to come into the public square, we are going to see the bloodiest and most brutal Holocaust here than we have ever seen. You thought it was bad before. It is going to be so much worse and graphic. It already is graphic. I know that, but it's going to be so much worse. And, you know, what just took place in the state of Arizona. And just something I need to say here too, this is really important because, you know, we're, we're Christians first and foremost, and as to our position on the issue of abortion, we're abolitionists. We believe in equal protection. We believe the law of God has to apply to this. We want to see justice established, real justice established. And so we've even had, unfortunately, some misguided friends and brothers and sisters who are also abolitionists, making, you know, misguided and unwise comments as to our involvement this last week in trying to ensure that the law in Arizona that makes it a crime, at least for the abortionist doesn't go away. Now, I want to just announce that law law went into effect. That territory law put it went into effect 1864. Correct. And it was reaffirmed in the 70s, I believe. Okay. So 1864 is when that law went in, and I want to say this, you know, a little bit of tongue in cheek and jabbing as friendly as I can, I was born in 1978. I had nothing to do with that law. If we had been around in 1864 believing what we do now, we would have said, no, it's a crime, it's murder, equal protection for all humans in the womb. So we didn't create that law. The law in Arizona, Arizona statute 13-3603. We didn't create it. It was there. It just wasn't being enforced, because of it, bro, I'm honest. And so the pro-life establishment already repealed the other law that criminalized the mother. So they decriminalized abortion for the mother through their Senate bill. And, and so this law, 13-3603, was the law that made it a crime for the abortionist. And is that law just completely just in God's eyes? Nope, because the punishment is nowhere near what should be done. It should be life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth. That's God's standard. It should be, if you take the life of any image bearer of God in an unjustified manner, you deserve to lose your life. That's the scriptural position. It's from Genesis 9, 6, all the way into the New Testament. Paul affirms it when he's on trial. He says, if I've done anything worthy of death, I don't object to dying. So after the resurrection and ascension of Jesus, it's still affirmed by an inspired apostle. There are things worthy of death, and if I've done them, then I don't object to dying. Okay. So that's New Testament, New Covenant, and Force. Okay. So that's it. If you're a Christian who disagrees with the death penalty, stop being stupid. Scripture teaches it clearly. The Uromans 13, bro. Exactly. Don't be foolish. Don't mishandle Scripture. You're going to make God look like a big meaning, a bad guy. If you start opposing capital punishment, because he applies it in so many places. And when I say it very, it's very strong way like that. Don't be stupid. Don't be foolish. I'm using biblical terminologies. Don't be dull in your thinking. And don't make God look like he is some sort of a monster for advocating for capital punishments. Like the pope. Like the pope just recently did. I called the death penalty unjust. Well, that's interesting. All of Christian history Christians have affirmed the death penalty. So anyways, all that to say, if we had been around in 1864, what would we have done? We would have made sure there's a bill of equal protection and that the abortionist is committing the crime of murder. However, in Arizona, the big fight over the last couple of weeks is our Supreme Court pointed to the fact that that law is still on the books and it's a crime for an abortion doctor to do it. Now, when we said that law needs to stay put, it is not us saying that that law is what it ought to be. It's not us saying that we would have put that law in. It's us saying the law is on the books and it says it's a crime for the abortion doctor to do it. That should be there. What would we like to do? Now make it equal protection. That's what we would want to do. And, and so us saying to legislators, don't repeal that law. It's supposed to be a crime in God's eyes is not us advocating for partiality. It's not us advocating for compromising in any way that wasn't our law. We had nothing to do with it, but it criminalized the abortion doctor. And what we were saying is you better not repeal that because it would just show more and more and more your instability and inconsistency. And what we ought to do is move from this point that it is technically against the law in Arizona for the abortionist to do it and move towards equal protection, which is what we said on the news. I did, I think a couple different news interviews and, and it's precisely what I said. I said, I said, this law is not just. We would want to make sure that there is equal protection for all humans and there's a crime for everybody and that it is, it is called murder. We did that, of course, but here's the deal. What you need to know, and this is what I mean. We're about to, we're in the precipice of the bloodiest and most brutal part of this Holocaust is that yesterday, after trying for two weeks, the house tried to repeal the law, failed. Try it again, failed yesterday. They meet specially to do what? To repeal that law that criminalized it for the abortion doctor. And guess what? They were victorious. The house voted to repeal the Arizona statute, 13-3603 law on the books. And that was delivered to you by pro-life Republican legislators. They said that they wanted the law repealed. So that would mean, and this is a provable fact, what got it over the edge was pro-life legislators. And that means here's the state of the union, the state of the state, that it was the pro-life establishment types that decriminalized abortion in Arizona for the mother and now in the house anyways, it's got to move to the Senate now, they've decriminalized it for the abortionist. What is going on? And the answer is what we've been saying for years. And again, look, we're not the best at this. We're not the authorities over this issue. We're just Christians trying to be faithful in the midst of a Holocaust. What we've been saying since the beginning is that that's because this is supposed to be the job of the church. It's supposed to be the job of pastors and Christians and missionaries who speak the truth on this issue. And they do not waver. They stand on scripture, the authority of Christ, the authority of God's word and the gospel itself. And they are consistently proclaiming the law of God and God's just standards in the midst of this. We haven't been doing that like we've been supposed to be doing it. And so that means now on the precipice of the bloodiest and most brutal part of this Holocaust, we have to wake up. We have to wake up church and we have to speak the truth. I will just kick it over to you guys here. I want to say this. I know that this is not the only issue that faces the church. I understand that. I'm fully believing that. If you look through our thread or feed at Apologia Studios over 15 years, you will see a wide variety of subjects and topics from eschatology and times to dealing with Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses and debating atheists and books of the Bible and exegesis and verse by verse through Matthew and verse by verse through Proverbs and verse by verse through Romans, you will see that we fully acknowledge that you cannot make the issue of abortion and idle, pretending like that's all there is. But brothers and sisters, it is injustice all around us. And it does involve the actual lives of image bearers of God. And brothers and sisters, it is so bad. We have so much blood guiltiness in this nation and it's about to get worse than you ever imagined it would be. You thought Roe was the problem. We told you that it wasn't. It went away and now we are about to just be soaked in blood in this nation. And so it's time to wake up. Brothers and sisters, everyone needs to be talking about this. It's time to wake up. And I want to just say, shame on all the pastors. Shame on all the pastors in this state who didn't work to stand this last week to be prophetic on this issue. Shame on the pastors who messaged me privately saying, good job, Jeff. So proud, so thankful for you. And I'm praying for your ministry. Keep doing what you're doing. Pat's on the back. Afraid to talk about this issue because they're going to blow their church up or split their church, but they want to give me the pad on the back. I don't need your pad on the back. I need your mouth. I need your hands. I need your feet. And it's about time we started confronting the pulpit itself saying, we're the problem. The pulp it's the problem. And so pastors need to start right raising up. This isn't my thing. It's not Luke's thing. This is the thing of the church is the responsibility and obligation of the church. And it takes all of us. And so I hope that feels cutting to some Arizona pastors. But where were you this last week? Where were you? It's a rare instance to see a pastor at the Capitol given the Word of God to legislators and praying for them and challenging them with the Word of God. That's what we need. That is what is missing. Who is there? Who's there? Who's at the Capitol? Parachurch organizations or secular organizations, non-Christian organizations, people volunteering in their time to do what? To talk about compromise and just beg for a little bit, a little crumb. Can I have a little crumb? Where's the pastors, the men of God who will just go their boldly and say, this is the Word of the Lord. Thus say it, the Lord obey him. The same thing that drives the secret text is what drives the legislators to do. There are dirty deeds in the dark. Fear of man. I think that's what it comes down to. If you don't want to be seen taking a public stand for this and just congratulating those that are, like you said, we're not trying to take credit for anything. We're just trying to do the right thing and recognize the moment that we're in right now because it's not exaggeration when you say, Jeff, that things are most likely about to get worse in terms of the amount of bloodshed. If this goes into the state constitution, we're talking about anyone, an RN, a PA, a nurse that's labeled a health care professional under this. Whether they have hospital privileges or not, they're going to be permitted to perform abortions. And so there's complicity there that's increasing and potential for more bloodshed there. And then there's the aspect of minors even being able to do this without consent. And we wouldn't base the immorality of this on those things. It's wrong because these babies are made the image of God and it's murder. That's why it's wrong. But I'm just speaking to the reality of God's hand of restraint being lifted. Now, I mean, this is it's something to where God is giving us over in an even greater degree than what we already are to this because as our legislature is confirmed, this is what we want. We love this. And we will do everything within our power to make sure we have the right to do it and that it's defined as a fundamental human right, the right to murder. That's right. Two things real quick. One, I mean, we keep beating this drum, but where the people are where there's no prophetic vision, people cast off restraint. And what we saw, we literally the Republicans that call themselves pro life all released that voted to repeal the bill yesterday all released a press release saying how pro life they are. And you know, it just but it's all about pragmatism because they don't they don't want to lose the election. That's all they care about, just about power. But there's so ashamed to even say it. Like even the speaker, remember last week when we were there, he was just choking on the word murder. Yeah, he couldn't get it out. He was like, we just believe that that it's murder, you know, and it's like brother, just thunder it. Tell the truth. Say it. Tell the truth. Say it. Like, stop being afraid. Yeah. And then the other thing going back to just quickly to the point about not being our bill and stuff, it is important to mention that the two bills because we've done one bill twice and one bill once. The two bills we've put in here in Arizona took the law that's on the books and strengthened it. So it made it a just law. So I just want to make sure that because I know there was questions about it. So it wasn't in a situation like that, you're not repealing that law and putting in a brand new law, you're taking the existing law and strengthening it to make it a just law. Yeah, that's a good point. We did that. We did that. That's how we would handle it. But let's not be foolish. If it's a crime for the abortionist to do it, abolitionists should not be saying, well, do away with that law because it's not perfectly just. It's already on the books. We didn't put it in. We need to strengthen the law. That law makes it a crime. Let's make sure that it's a just penalty. It's two categories that we talk about. There's laws that fall short of justice. And then there would be us coming in and saying, no, let's do what God explicitly forbids us from doing. Those are two different things. You don't want to decriminalize it if it's a crime. That's silly. And so, but I wanted to share with you guys this video. Kathy Harrod, what did you find the video? Is it on our page? Actually, Marcus sent it to me. Okay. I think it was. I think Cab did post it. Yeah, I'm blocked. I just didn't see where. Yeah, Kathy blocked me from all of her stuff. So yeah, thanks for sharing this. This is Kathy Harrod. And I want to just point out something. Kathy Harrod is the one who was responsible for repealing that other law in Arizona that said it was a crime for the mother. She believes that a mother is a victim just like the dismembered child. And she doesn't ever want a woman to be seen as guilty or punishable in any way for taking the life of her child in the womb unjustly. That's Kathy Harrod's position. Okay, let's get that. Let's get that straight and right and understood. Kathy Harrod, the leader of the pro-life establishment here in my state, in our state, believes that a woman ought to be able to take the life for child in her womb with legal protection and without any punishment. That's what she believes. And that's why she listened to what she's going to do here in a minute. She's going to cry because now it's no longer a crime for the abortionist, according to the house. She's the one that decriminalized it for the mother. And now she's shedding tears because the house says, well, they should also not be punished. Okay. So here's Kathy Harrod. Today, I cry. I cried because of an Arizona house who just voted to repeal a law that we've stood for for many years that would protect the lives of unborn children. Today, the Arizona house with 32 votes, only 31 required. Repealed Arizona's pre-roll law. It's our law that said abortion was not legal unless necessary to save the life of the mother. I weep for those children. I weep for those mothers. I weep for a culture who so disregards the sanctitude of human life that we're so callous that we don't even think about the lives of women that are being hurt or the lives of men that are participating in abortion. So today, we weep. We weep and we grieve for those lives of unborn children and their mothers. And for society, a culture, a legislature who mocks God and who refuses to acknowledge that God is the creator of life and that we have no right to continue to sanction abortion in this state and in this country. But with all that is in me, we will continue this fight. We will give everything we have to defeat the so-called abortion-access amendment. And we will continue to fight and do all we can for the lives of unborn children and their mothers. Stand with us, pray with us, say with us. Thank you. You've got to have a hard time taking this woman seriously because the blood of the children in this state is on her hands because she decriminalized it for the mother. That's Kathy Herr. She's the one that did it. She's the one that killed our bill of equal protection and abolition and told the legislature not to pass it because she believes the woman's a victim. And she's not guilty and she should never be seen as guilty of anything. So all this talk about God is the creator of life and all life is sacred and sanctity of human life. Bogus, Kathy, Bogus, you don't believe it. You're not consistent with it anyways because you believe a mother ought to be able to take life for a child with legal protection to do it and with impunity. And Kathy Herr is responsible for killing our bill and saying, well, you can kill him in the state, but you had to give him a proper burial. And we can't kill him because they have a genetic abnormality. You can't say that that's why you're doing it. So you can say some other reason, but just not because it has Down syndrome. And then Kathy Herr had also repealed the law that said I was a crime from the mother. So I have a hard time taking this woman seriously and respecting her position because you can say mock God, but Kathy, you mocked God when you decriminalized it for the mother. So borrowing Christian language to say God is the creator of life and he creates you unique human life and we're fearfully and wonderfully made. You're co-opting Christian language to keep your organization in operation because your organization decriminalized it for the mother. So why are we upset is the question that should be asked? Why are we upset? If the mother is not guilty for doing in the womb, why is the abortionist? Why not have the house say, no, they can do it. Or Kathy, do you have two stones? Do you actually hold unequal weights and measures? Is that what's going on? And the answer is yes. You show partiality. You regard and respect the face of the woman who willfully takes a life of the child in the womb. And you say, you're not guilty sweetheart. You're as you're as much a victim as the child you had dismembered, disemboweled, and decapitated. You are not guilty sweetheart. So you regard the face of the mother who does it unjustly. But you want to see the abortion doctor punished for it. The question should be asked. Why? Please explain it. Please explain why he's guilty and she's not guilty. You're wondering why there's such a collapse in Arizona here. It's because of your inconsistent position. You are very inconsistent. And of course, as we announced last week, you don't need us to announce that to you. You can listen to a rabbit unbeliever like Bill Maher. He looks at your position and the things that you've put in. And he would say that's inconsistent and hypocrisy makes no sense to me. He respects the absolutist position, the Christian position, the consistent position. He doesn't respect your position. And it's terrible, again, as like we said last week, that it takes a rabbit unbeliever like Bill Maher to point that out to us Christians. But did you note that when these pro-life establishment types talk about this issue? It's like a leftist tactic and technique where they will pull on the emotions of the audience rather than dealing with the real problem and the actual victim. They try to manipulate them and the emotions of the audience by saying things like, Oh, and we're here for the babies and the mothers and the fathers. That's what we're here for. We these mothers, these mothers are being hurt. This will hurt women. This is going to hurt women. Let's talk about the victims, the actual victims, the children in the womb, those who are being slain. We should not have any respect for a woman who is saying, I'm going to kill my baby. I know it's my baby and I don't want it. It's getting in the way of my life and my hopes and my dreams. I had unprotected sex and I don't want to have this baby. And so I'm going to see to it that it is slaughtered. You shouldn't be saying, Oh, we want to be here for her in this moment. We wanted to know the gospel. We wanted to have forgiveness and peace with God. Yes. But you need to be staying standing for the child who is the victim, who is being pursued, who is now prey from their own mother and father. We shouldn't be manipulating people's emotions. Christians should be about the truth. And what Kathy does is the standard fair pro-life operational procedure is try to make this all week. We are for the women and the fathers and the babies. We're here for all of them. And the answer is, well, yeah, to some degree that's true, the church wants to be here for all of them. Amen. And how will you do that? However, you're talking about justice here for the child. So stick to the issue. There is a child who is a victim, a fatherless child, a child with no protection and no covering. And that's the issue right now. And so stop praying on people's emotions, Kathy. We're in the sphere of civil government at the moment, where the state is required to perform a specific function in obedience to God. And that's to distinguish who is the victim and who is the perpetrator of crime and to delegate punishments accordingly. We have to speak like we realize where we are. And those wires get crossed because of the soft messaging and that the distortion of the true victim in an abortion. Well, and Darryl and I were talking this week about the narrative of the woman being a victim. And, you know, when we say, even when we say it amongst ourselves, we're talking about a woman that, you know, can have an abortion that will a lot of times, I think, in her own heads, we're thinking, you know, on the board of faces, she's taking a pill because that's what it is a lot of the times. But Darryl brought up a great point that because of what Kathy's done here in Arizona, a woman can have an abortion up to birth and get off scot-free. You know, so this is graphic to think about it like this, but a woman, if she was nine months pregnant, could punch her baby to death in her womb and have no issues. She could drive her car into a tree or run to the wall or use a coat hanger if you want to use that argument. Whatever the most disgusting form of death you could think of, she could do that and be completely do it completely legally and have no repercussions. And, you know, I know someone's going to hear that and they're going to say, well, you know, no mother would do that sort of a thing. It's like, well, most people would also say that a mother wouldn't do that to her children after birth, but there are sick women that do that. And by sick, I don't mean like disease, sick in the head. I mean, like they're morally sick. You know, and so most people, they go, woman wouldn't do that, but women do do that on occasion. And they now, because of these laws, can do that with the baby in the womb. As long as it's in the womb. I think that just speaks to the how sanitized this has become and how sophisticated the methods of the abortions are, because when you look back in history, you know, whether it's tribes or peoples ago that practice child sacrifice, it was much more barbaric because it had to be. Yeah. The method for performing murder on your child was naturally more barbaric. But we live in a much more sophisticated time with instruments and tools and methods and very sanitized places where it happens. So it's just kind of out of sight for us. Yeah. Yeah. And again, if you're just joining us, welcome everybody. As I said at the beginning of the episode, we're tired of talking about this. We wish we wouldn't ever talk about it again. We wish justice was established. The problem is the reason why we have to do this broadcast today. And by the way, we're going to deal with Charlie Kirk here in a moment. Miss Representing abolitionism, unfortunately, and we love Charlie and we're grateful for a lot of stuff he said and he's done, but we need to address some things. The reason why this is so important for us to talk about right now is we are on the precipice right now of the bloodiest, most brutal time we've had in this Holocaust. And we need to do our duty before the church. And tell you all, brothers and sisters, that this is where we're at. It's about to get worse. It's about to get so much worse if we don't start speaking the truth of God's word into this issue. And so, so before we get into the Charlie Kirk issue, we're going to play you some, some audio recorded from a recent event. I want to point to you guys, point you guys to the people that support us and stuff that we love. It's a huge blessing to us. You'll see that Pastor Luke right now has a NAD patch on his arm. I already did my, my load cycle. And so I'm, I got nothing on me today. But that's an NAD patch. Really encourage you guys to go Google search NAD benefits, just tons of scientific research and great stuff on NAD for your system. It's nicknamed the Fountain of Youth. It is something that's used in so many processes in our system. If you went without it for more than 30 seconds, you'd be dead. When you get older, you dramatically lose the amount of NAD in your system. And so there are two ways really you can do it. One is IV. And the IV method is painful. It is very difficult. It's a, it's a hard sit-through because for some reason, NAD going into your system is just really tough. And so everyone knows that it is super beneficial and through IV, it is hard to do. This company, ionlayer.com, Christian dudes, solid, solid dudes, they found a way to do it through a medical device patch that goes into your system, through your skin, over like 14 hours of the day. And the benefit is no pain, no pain. And you get all this NAD in your system. It has been such a blessing to my life and my wife, my wife's alive, my wives. Hopefully my wife's alive. This is not a show on Mormonism today. My wife's life on our health. It is tremendously blessed me. And so I'm doing it anyways. And ion layer wants to take care of our supporters and our partners. And so if you go to ionlayer.com, if you want to invest in your physical well-being and your body and your health, you want to give it a shot, go to ionlayer.com, type in apology and all caps in the coupon code, get started. I ran into a guy when I was in Kentucky last week that said it's just been transformative to his physical well-being and his life. He pulled a shirt up and he had one stuck to his side. And it's been blessing him. So I listen, I'm doing it anyways. Whether we're talking on the show or not, I absolutely support and love ion layer. And I'm thankful for them to be able to get this and to get it into into your system at such a lower lower cost than you would IV treatments. And so ionlayer.com apology and all caps in the coupon code. And I think it'll bless your life. And so that's what we're talking about it and Luke. And of course, we keep mentioning amtech blades. Grab this little trainer. Trainer acts here. Was it you that cut yourself on this or was it the actual the actual acts I did? Yeah, immediately. I did. It was very sharp. It's very sharp. And if you watch, if you go to YouTube or on Instagram, Bill's got videos of him using these things. And it's he's just like all right. Well, he is how did you not lose a finger? He's deaf group. He's he's deaf grew Navy seal. But training bill supports equal protection. Because if you go to amtech blades and get yourself a speed battle axe or a blade, you put it in the coupon code, you will get 5% off. And he will give 5% to end abortion now to help us fight, save babies. Fantastic. We love bill. And then of course, someone else that supports equal protection is our good friend, Bradley Pearson at heritage defense, heritage defense.org. If you're homeschooling, please, please, please go sign up right now, make sure your family's protected, put apology in the coupon code. Get your first month free and heritage defense. What it is, is it something you sign up for? And if any three letter agencies or what not come to your door, you can dial up your number and have them on the phone instantly with your attorney, you can hand the phone to them and say talk to my attorney. And so really important as considering the times that we're facing right now as Christians and what we believe considered hate speech and all the rest. And so do it as soon as you can. So I'll let you guys introduce everyone to this. Yeah. So this was, when was this like November? Several months ago. It was before Amfest. So I think it was in November. Yeah. It was still relatively warm outside. Yeah. So it might have even been earlier than that. Attorney point is here in Arizona there. Yeah. It's 15, 20 minutes from where we're at right now. Pretty close. And we've been very grateful for Charlie at times. We've tried very hard to get together with him and just haven't been able to make it work. And you know, turning point faith, there's a lot of solid people in there. They've been very helpful to us in different states fighting this fight to end to an abortion. So I want to start with that. But they invited us to a pastor's luncheon where we went. We ate kind of mingle a little bit. And then there was a time we actually sat down and had a kind of a private meeting with Charlie and Rob McCoy. Yeah. Pastor of a church in California. Yeah. And you know, we were able to ask questions and stuff. And so it was only Zach and I were both. We'd like to ask a question. And there was probably, I asked to be about 200 people in there. It would have been all pastors and their wives. Yeah. And they were in there besides us. And so, you weren't my wife. Yeah, exactly. So, so yeah, that's kind of the setup. So we got two videos here. I recorded it. Well, I just had it down because I didn't want to look like I was trying to be suspicious or anything. So I just were trying to get the audio. But Zach asked the question, we'll play a part of that. And then there's a guy that asked a follow-up question as well, that is pertinent to this conversation. It kind of sets up what we want to talk about. This is actually the second time I've asked Charlie a question related to the issue of a bush. And there was another meeting at a house here in town. Got to go to that, some turning point partners. And I just asked a question about what turning point is doing to combat the great evil of our time. And had a chance to follow up with a more specific question to what we do. Yeah. Yeah. And I will say, sorry, one more thing. If Charlie happens to hear this, I'll just wear you out on this issue, brother, on the ballot initiative and the stuff going on the state right now. Like, I looked very, very hard to try to find something and I can't find anything. And I don't understand that because you're here in Phoenix. And this affects you very, very much. And actually at this meeting, he, when he didn't want to answer our question, then he's like, we need to stop this ballot initiative. And he got very fired up. But then I haven't seen anything since. And so I would love to get some help on that. Yeah. Okay. Gentlemen, thank you so much for applying the word of God faithfully here. We try to do the same in the area of abortion. We apply the word of God to the hearts of men for the cause of life. And we've done that by trying to equip local Christian churches to minister to women outside of abortion clinics and offer the hope that's in Christ. They're all the hope. But we've also tried to make a difference in the legislative arena by introducing bills of legal protection that would essentially treat the preborn child and the woman with the same laws that protect your life and my life. And we found that our biggest opposition thus far in trying to do that has been the pro-life movement. I don't know if you're familiar, but we had a bill recently in Louisiana that was signed by about 70 different pro-life organizations saying that they opposed that bill on the basis that a woman, however willingly or voluntarily chooses to kill her child in the womb, she's always a victim. They're never guilty. And so our concern has been that that is robbed women of the gospel and the hope of Christ for the sin of abortion. But it's also robbed their babies of the same justice that you and I enjoy. And so I'm just curious as to your thoughts because we've tried to do the same thing. Now we're prospectively looking at about 18 states this next year in 24, where we're trying to put this kind of legislation in that would do this for these babies. And we know that the sharing of innocent blood brings a curse upon our land. And we know that America has a lot of blood to answer for. And so our hope is that as Christians we would get consistent in this area and apply the law equally as this brother up here. And the chair said, because when we know it's partiality. I want to make sure I'm understanding that do you think women who have had abortions done to them be criminally liable? That what you're saying? No, sir. Okay. I believe that the same justice system that would prosecute homicide of a born person, we need to have that same due process applied to people that take life before birth. I agree. So the abortionists in particular, or the woman as well? If a woman is self managing abortion, for example, and she's the abortionist, then she would be subject to the same justice system as everybody else. Okay. So you mean like plan, I'm just understanding the plan B essentially. Essentially. Yeah, which is the highest form of abortion. I can see why the pro life groups don't think that's a great idea. So I probably disagree with you because a lot of in we as Christians do believe intent matters, right? Do you think the woman is intending or knows that it's murder? By and large, yes, I'm sure that there are some cases in which women are covers. I would be curious, do you guys agree with that? Do you think most women who get abortions consciously believe they're murdering a child? Pause it. You heard that audibly. That room again was filled with roughly 200 pastors in their wives. Mm hmm. When I heard that, I was like, Oh, we got who I work to do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, the first thing I'll say about that is I was a really well done. I was a little very clear. I was a little glad they call on him and not me. I have to say I was a little disappointed in trying to find the basis for a position that doesn't demand equal justice in the popular perspective of the audience. In other words, what do you guys think about this? Should women be held accountable for this? Instead of debating the position on the merits of scripture and what God demands, we turn instead to popular opinion in order to kind of gain a hearing and a majority in order to push down what the position ought to be instead of the Bible informing this. I think that was the first thing I was initially disappointed in from Charlie's answer. Can you hold it one second? Yeah. The fallacious reasoning there that he says about intent. Yes. Here's the here's the here's a fallacious reasoning. Every woman who willfully engages in the issue of abortion intends to end the life of her child. So when Charlie Kirk then changes the category and goes, do you think that she believes she's murdering her child? That's a different question. So wait, the law works that way. She has to believe it's murder in order for it to actually be murder. That's not how the law works. It's human life. It's not just by taking human life. And she intends to end the life of her child. Everyone is intention unless, of course, it's the rare, rare, rare occurrence in terms of the total number where it is actual coercion, where you have like a pimp or sex trafficker who was threatening a person and saying, well, I'm going to kill you if you don't do this. That is a whole different scenario. And the only way to protect the woman is have equal protection. Because right now, those coersors have freedom to coerce because there's no equal protection. But all that's to say, that a woman saying, well, I don't believe it's murder. And then somehow we're supposed to say, well, okay, well, then you get a free pass because you don't actually believe it's murder. Now, her intention is to end the life of her child. It's a good point. And also the way that it was phrased, one of the questions as well. Do you believe a woman that has an abortion done to her performed upon her as if she is the passive recipient in this whole process and not the active perpetrator or the one seeking this out? Yeah, abortionists don't run around neighborhoods in the East Valley with their tools and instruments running around neighborhoods, grabbing women to abort babies. No women deliver their babies to the abortionists in a nice air condition facility. Well, until your point, a second ago, Jeff, you know, because Charlie's like, is that the way that I forget? I phrase it, but is that how the law, like, is that how that works? Like intention? It's like, well, hold on. Like, let's, if we're going to talk about this in general, just not specifically abortion, but the taking of life in general, there's also something called manslaughter, right? Where someone can be guilty of manslaughter, and they did not intend to kill somebody. Like, so no, that's not that's a completely fallacious argument to begin with, because, again, like, there's different categories. But anyways, you could keep, I think there's just a few more seconds on this one, then we'll flip to the other one. Okay. Go stand outside in the portion. I would invite you outside and pair up with me. No, how can I know you might be right? And I love your pro-life advocacy, but this is, this is, I don't know if that's the best use of our energy to say that we should criminally say women should go to jail if they had an abortion. I look at it differently. I'm not one to, you know, find victims where there isn't one. I find a lot of women be systemically lied to by the abortion cartel, and I would like to see abortionists or people that call themselves nurses go to jail and try to give young women redemption. The way to convince or teach, sorry, wrong word, well, not quite the wrong word, the way to instruct or teach the culture around about you, that abortion is murder. And that's the unjustified taking of human life is to actually have the law be a tutor to teach them. And so the way to do that is to create law that is actually consistent and just and says across the board that what's in the womb is human from fertilization, all humans deserve equal protection. Nobody can go after the life of this child. You don't create a category of, well, except for you, you are allowed to take the life of your child with immunity and impunity. But there's these people over here, we're going to punish them. That's inconsistent. Everyone could see it's inconsistent. And that doesn't instruct. That doesn't instruct. It just says there's a category of people who are not allowed to do this, but there's another category of people who are allowed to do this and have full permission to do it. And that that's not helpful. That's not consistent. That's totally inconsistent. And I would say one of the things I've admired at times about Charlie is that Charlie fights to make sure that he is saying things that are accurate and consistent. Absolutely. And it's one of the things that he does so well, when he's doing it, he does it so very well. And in this area, he is wholly inconsistent in this area. So I just wanted to say that in terms of the law and its function, it actually preserves and instructs. So yeah, go ahead and keep it. I'm trying to remember because I think a lot of them have been lied to because I don't consciously think they believe they're committing murder while they're doing it. And intent, I think really does matter. That's a fallacy, right? They have to believe they're committing murder in order for them to be penalized for it. I would say try that with the people who are like rating CVSs and targets in California right now, like try that with the people who are robbing stores. In their mind, what's their justification? Well, these people are rich. I don't have what they have. I'm allowed to take from the rich. And so I don't see this as steel. Like with that work in court, if one of these people is actually captured by the police after they break into an Apple store and they're just ripping out iPhones and iPads and all the rest, you know, they're running out. They finally get caught by the cops. They go before the judge judge. I didn't believe he was stealing. I had no intention of stealing because in my heart, this isn't actually stealing. I think they have too much and I have very little. And so I think it's a moral right that I have to take it. So does the judge go, oh, you know what? You're a victim of your environment. You didn't understand. And so you're just confused. You didn't believe it's stealing. So you're not responsible for stealing. That's not how it works, right? You intended to go and take something that didn't belong to you, whether you think it's stealing or not is irrelevant. And in the sense of, and in this category of abortion, the woman intends to end the life of the child and her womb. That was her intention, whether she personally believes his murder or not is irrelevant to the question of justice. It's irrelevant. Yeah. And here's the thing, your intention or desire to show her mercy while well-intended still is meaningless if the justice does not exist first. In order for mercy to have meaning, there has to be the law or the sanction in place that says you're guilty. You broke this law. We have to have that standard in place, even for your intention to show her mercy. So it's not mercy if there's no justice. Justice. Yeah. Right. Well, how about rape? You know, if a 30 year old man raped Charlie's 16 year old daughter and said, oh, it's consensual. I don't think Charlie would have that same attitude. Yeah, I believed it was consensual. Yeah. I didn't believe I was raping anybody. Yeah. You'd say, that doesn't make a difference what you thought that it was, what you did that matters. Yeah. And I'll just say one more thing on this point, Charlie is very consistent on the reality that people have agency that this whole class of victims that is so popular in our culture today, where we get to shirk individual responsibility in favor of just getting what we want. Like conservatives are very, very good at individual responsibility. Take responsibility. You're responsible for this. But for some reason on this issue of abortion, the woman or the mother is not culpable. Yeah. She's she's a victim. She doesn't bear individual responsibility for this. And the evidence from their perspective on this is that well, she's been lied to by the abortion industry, which is true. But to your point, we've lied. We have not said with our laws, we haven't said from our pulpits that this is murder not to be treated as such. So we're guilty of lying, we're complicit in this. And maybe if we were had been consistent long ago, we could have saved all of these women from the guilt and from the shame by telling them, if you do this, this is an image bearer of God, this is a human. If you do this, it's murder. And then ask them, the ones that have had the abortions, would you have done it? If it had been a crime, right? This is something that you would have engaged in. If you knew that you would be prosecuted for murder, haven't you guys lost count at this point as to how many women that we know personally that are in Christ now that have had abortions and they're forgiven, and they've been given mercy, got his wastersons away. How many have told us, like, if this had been a crime, I never would have done it. I talked to a woman on Tuesday. I've lost count as to how many women that have said, I'm so grateful for what you guys are doing, because if this had been a law in my day of equal protection and it was a crime, I never would have done it. And so I think that needs to be understood and contemplated, meditated upon. Next video. Yeah, because he thought he says the talk to him and the other one, right? Zach, I mean, doesn't matter, I can't remember 45 seconds on the second one, because okay, started at 45. Jumped to 40. There you go. Yeah, I've done that. No, I hear you. So I guess the question is, so just just to work clear, about half of all your church women in your church would go to jail, just so we're clear. No, sir. Yeah, no, sir. It's not. No, sir. Half of church attending women in the evangelical community have had at least one abortion for the age of eight. May I answer one point? Is that your number wrong? May I answer one point? Well, let me just answer the question. Number two, but let's let's say that. Okay, morally, we got to throw a maulin jail. I don't, I don't agree. I don't think that 16 that goes to a Planned Parenthood is the murderer. At best, at best, maybe manslaughter. You could make a moral argument, but from at least my understanding of my experience from people like Abby Johnson and others, these women are lied to and swindled and coerced. So I guess the question I would say what percentage of women do you get abortions were given an ultra sound before? Yeah, he's by way, just real fast. He's he's wrong about Abby Johnson. Abby Johnson is now on our side in this issue in terms of equal protection. The mother's actually culpable and she is guilty. So Abby Johnson, thankfully, has had a change of mind on this issue and she's consistent. And so she wouldn't agree with Charlie at this point. And just to correct the main point in all of this, because we've seen a video service since then, where Charlie's asked, you know, what's the difference between being pro-life and being abolitionist, which one are you? And he answers the difference in perspective that I have is as follows. Well, before you play, like, this is what I wanted to make sure we showed is that it's right after that, I think, because Zach's clearly like, please, can I please address that? And he just completely, okay, let me play it then. So let me get to it. Sorry, I apologize. That's okay. What is that? Can I answer the first point? So if a woman has not been given an ultrasound, I don't think you can morally say she has full knowledge of what that medical procedure, not medical, that massacre procedure would do. So, but the abortionist should go to jail. I think we're agreeing that it is murdered. And Planned Parenthood should be shut down as an institutionalized criminal organization. I'm curious if a woman here has a thought of whether or not you agree with disagreeing. You know, say that. There he goes again. Yeah. Sorry. Yes. Yes, ma'am. So we have a, we support a planned pregnancy care center and they had a guest speaker come. And she had had an abortion. And her result from having an abortion was she decided to be an abortion doctor or have abortion clinics. And she shared how one of their goals is to get into schools with the goal of tricking young girls. They would give girls pills that were not strong enough to prevent pregnancy while trying to build relationships with these young girls so that they were creating clients. So I would say so she's sharing this and she kind of shared her testimony how she ended up getting receiving Jesus Christ as her savior. So she's going out sharing this message about how Planned Parenthood goes in and their whole goal is to create clients. They give boys condoms that don't work because their whole goal is money. All right. The very passionate topic. So there's another topic. Yeah. You guys, you guys have it. So once, once again, the weakness of the position in saying something like, is there a woman here that would like to address this topic? Yeah. Yeah. And so, what I just forget, I don't remember if it was the end of that first video or the second one, but at one point, Zach's like, please, can we, can I respond? And he says, let's talk afterwards. He said, I'd be glad to talk to you afterwards. And we're like, okay, that's fair. And then literally the moment of thing ended split. So my point, what sets up this video here is we tried to say to him, Hey, brother, this isn't accurate. Can we please talk about this? And he refused to hear it. And I tried to answer that point. And the issue you kept trying, the issue there is this idea of retroactive punishment is not a part of the abolitionist position. So when you use that, so like, well, I'm opposed to like, you know, if you put this in place, you're going to have like, you know, a third of your congregation that goes to jail. It's like, nobody's arguing that. Our bills even specifically address that. There's no retroactive punishment. That's not even, that's not even how the law works in this nation. You can't do that. We're arguing to establish justice now for the future. We're not talking about going and rounding people up. We've had abortions in the past. We're talking about establishing justice now for the future protection of human beings in the womb. And Charlie has made this mistake before. And here is an example. You pro life or you an abortion abolitionist? Both. I mean, I would love to see abortion abolished. Yeah. So what do you mean by both? Well, being pro life, hopefully, like the pro life group where the only difference I have with them is they want retroactive prison time for women that had abortions. And I disagree with them. Okay. I don't want to misstate their position, but I do believe that's correct. Why? Why do you just? No, so this was in this is March 27th when he released that video, I looked it up. So that was after. Yeah. Well, after just say respectfully, Charlie, if we ever get the chance to sit down together and talk about this, like we were hoping for that day, these sorts of things could have been easily dispelled, right? It could have been made very, very clear to you that that is not our position has never been our position. It's not in any of our bills. We don't believe in retroactive punishment. And for women, it would be an issue of when the law goes into effect from that moment forward. This is murder in anyone who participates in the murder of a human being is accountable under the law. That's what I meant at the first part of the video by due process for everyone involved. Also, you can't say that you want to see abortion abolished, but you want a class of people to be protected to do it, which Charlie, brother, that's your position is that she's not guilty. She's a victim. And in that case, when you argue that she can willingly do it and see no consequence whatsoever, you don't want it abolished. You don't want it to see it. You don't want to see it ultimately and by law and legislation. You don't want to see justice fully established because you want to protect a class of people to do it with impunity and with legal immunity. And so no, your position isn't that you want to see it ultimately abolished because again, you're arguing there should be a class of people who are able to do it with impunity. And if you think that through, Charlie, if you think it through and you land on consistency, I think you'll follow where we are. And to say equal protection means anybody involved in taking life of the child is to be seen as guilty. And so that's what the law would do, establish it now, protect people in the future, no retroactive punishment. And so we wanted to offer a little bit of correction there to Charlie Kirk. I am grateful for the good things that I've seen, Charlie Kirk doing the best. None of us is fully consistent. None of us does everything perfectly. We don't speak with authority on every issue here. There are a lot of issues that I haven't fully studied myself yet and fully understood. So I don't talk about them. I don't want to misrepresent them. But in this case, Charlie, you misrepresented the abolitionist position. And I hope you correct yourself on it. And I'd like to see that happen with you. Like it did with Abbie Johnson. Like it did with Abbie Johnson. All right, everybody. Thank you so much. We are excited about the weeks to come. Doing some interesting, exciting shows for you guys coming up. We needed to sound the alarm as to what's going on right now across the nation. This affects all of us. And most importantly, and in fact, it affects the most innocent among us. And so thank you. Don't forget to go to apologyestudios.com. Sign up for all access. Partner with us in this ministry. Get more content. We just dropped Eli Ayala's Apologetics course at Apologia Studios for the Academy. Right now, Kenneth Gentry, Dr. Kenneth Gentry's talks and teaching series on the book of Revelation is being cut. And so I'm excited to see that go up. We're going to skip the after show for today, everybody. If that's all right, with you guys, we've been here for a while. And Pastor Luke and I have pastoral duties. Yes, sir. And so this has been a real honor to do with everybody to spend time talking about God's word, establishing justice for these pre-born neighbors. That's Luke to bear. Sorry, we got a bunch of super chats. Oh, my bad. Sorry, I just gave the put it up, but he didn't mind noticing that. Oh, Gabe, you want to throw those super chats? Okay. NCE 87. Thank you for that super chat. I get abortion is the main fight of the day, and I agree. But do you feel feeding believers on here is more important? You guys fed my soul during COVID so much. Also, what is your favorite cold beverage? This guy's from the UK, I believe, by the way. So we would consider what we're doing here, feeding believers, substantially feeding believers. And I hope that I answered some of that already in saying, like, look through the feet of Apologia Studios. It's not a one string banjo. It is a whole host of topics. If you want to learn about church history, baptism, justification, solar scriptora, the doctrines of grace, if you want to see on the street of evangelism with Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons, if you see public debates with atheists, if you want to see books of the Bible being preached through, that's what you're going to get at Apologia Studios is a whole lot. So hope that if you would, just go through the feed at Apologia Studios on YouTube, and you're going to get thousand videos on just a bunch of different topics. And so right now, we're dealing with this right now, my friend, because again, we're about to be in the bloodiest and most brutal part of this Holocaust. And these are real children. Their lives matter to God. God knows their names. And it's the duty of the Christian church to protect the fatherless and establish justice for them. That's why we're just trying to be faithful. That's all. What's your favorite cold beverage? Probably, probably a lot of water. Yeah, cold beverage would be cold, good water. Honestly, cold beverage. Yeah. And when it comes to just my beverage, anybody who knows me is going to have the same answer. They're just going to say instantly, you're a matay. That's what that's what he loves. And so that's me. How about you? Besides water, I'm on a big Topo Chico kit right now with two lives. Yeah. Two lives. And how many do you go? Let me some ice coffee as well. Yeah, Topo Chico. Yeah, ice coffee's good. Your moutet is good. And of course, those are the usual thing. I enjoy a little sparkling water every now and then too. Yeah. My favorite, not cold beverage. That's more of an adult beverage. Bourbon. Yes. And that would be, you know, that would be my favorite. Yeah. So anyway, we got Pierce Taylor, praise God. Thank you for that super chat. Thank you for that blessing. So grateful that you guys all have all been here with us today. Again, we will catch you next week right here on Apologia Radio. Thank you. This is the Academy. I am Eli Ayala of Revealed Apologetics and I will be bringing a six part series on presuppositional apologetics. What is this called? The Apologia Academy? It's just called the Academy. Okay. What's up, everybody? My name is Pastor Jeff Durban and you're watching Collision Today. I'm going to be interacting with an atheist on TikTok. So here we go. Unsupervised and unhinged. Welcome back to Cultisty Aftermath. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Ask Me Anything. You are watching Apologia Radio's after show exclusively for all access. [BLANK_AUDIO]