(upbeat music) - Max? - Yes. - You ready to get in bed with me? - Yes, let's do this. - Amazing. Everyone, I have Maxwell Fierce. They are a performer, rope rigor, educator, and also a full-time tattoo artist. Thank you so much for coming. - Yeah, thank you for having me. - I'm so excited to have you in bed with me. - Yeah. - Okay, so let's be it. Everyone wants to know, and by everyone, I mean me, about your rope journey. What was the first time you either got tied up or tied someone up? - Well, my rope journey has been an interesting one. It's been kind of like on and off. I've been tying for about four years. Initially it was just with my partner. And when I first started tying, we were monogamous. So it was just me and her. So that was about like four years ago, we tied for maybe like a year, just doing like tutorials online, taking classes, that kind of thing. - But where did the interest come from? - Initially, I mean, I think it's something that I'd always been interested in. - Okay. - It was, I feel like there's like little times in my life that it like came out a little bit. Like when I was younger in high school, like I would draw people in row and yeah. And like when I was really little, like, you know, I like play house or whatever and I'd be the daddy. So like there's like times in my life earlier on where like I feel like my king persona was coming out. - Wait, but when you, when you were drawing people in high school, where had you seen that? Just born or like, how did you know that it was a thing? - I didn't even know it really was really that it was a thing. Like I maybe I saw it in like anime or something like that. I thought it was cool, but like I never even really put the, put like the pieces together. That's like something people did. It's just not something that I was really exposed to. - Right. - So it really just, it took me meeting my partner, like finding somebody else that was interested in rope for me to actually initiate the rope journey. Like I said, it was about four years ago. So we started tying. - YouTube was your main source of information. - Sorry? - YouTube. - YouTube, yes. Yeah, YouTube and then classes that I took from, you know, other rope performers that I knew in the scene. - So you really wanted to get good at it? - Yeah, I mean, I always wanted to get good at it, but it was kind of a thing where it's difficult to practice when you, when you don't have somebody to practice on. - Yes, you mean someone. - Exactly. So the catalyst for that was this relationship that I'm currently in. - Yes, yeah. - We started tying for about a year and then it wasn't really working out. My partner ended up actually over the course of our relationship. We started out in a DS dynamic where I was top, I was the top and she was the bottom and it was like a clear caught thing. But over time she, our relationship evolved and she started becoming more of a dom when she's actually a pro dom now. - Mm-hmm. - So when that's, when that happens, we kind of put our rope journey on pause. - Okay. - Because she was no longer bottoming for me. So a couple of years gone, went by and then the pandemic happened and like during the pandemic is, - Yeah, but the pandemic was like four years ago. So maybe you've been together more than four years. - We've been together about seven years ago. - Okay. - Seven years, yeah. But my rope journey started a little bit before the pandemic. - Okay. - Put it on pause and then after the pandemic, I started doing rope a little bit more. I started getting more interested in it during the pandemic, like during lockdown because we had all that time, I started tying again. And then when we got out of the pandemic and started coming back, I started looking for other people to tie. - Yeah, 'cause she wouldn't anymore. - Yeah, she was no longer interested. And then what really catapulted what I'm doing now is the fact that I got a space of my own. So in my tattoo career, about two years ago, I opened my own private studio. - Yay. - Yes. - That was huge for me in my tattoo career and in my rope career. - Wait, is it all in the same studio? - Yes. - Right. - Yes. So I then had a space that I could actually tie in. - Yeah. - So I was able to put a hard point. And once I put a hard point in, that really motivated me to really do it. 'Cause I had this space, I had the place to do it. I'm like, this is it, let's go for it. So for probably about the past two years is really what is really like the main part of my rope journey where I've been focusing on tying more and practicing and doing suspension. - Yeah, okay, do you ever get tattoo clients that see your rope space in our like, can you? (laughing) Can I have your rope, honey? - No, I mean, surprisingly, I don't have that much crossover. But actually two of the people that I tie on a regular basis started out as clients. - As tattoo clients. - Yeah, as tattoo clients. And then we both came, we all like came to the scene together. - Okay. - Like I'm kind of relatively new to like the whole party scene and the king scene. I've really only been doing it for-- - But you did, like you're good. - I do teach, yes. But I've really only been doing it for maybe like two plus years. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Okay, and so have you been teaching for also two years? - No. - Or more recently? - The teaching is relatively, yeah, the teaching is relatively new. - And, and performing. How do you perform, where do you perform? How long has that been happening? - Performing is also, you know, something that I, like it's all kind of happened in the past two years, really. - Okay. - My journey has been about like four or five years long. - Yeah. - But there was a lot of positives in between. And over the past two years is really when I've started like dedicating myself to it, yes. And like finding people and like being in the scene too, like clients, it's kind of a, there's a separation there, but I find a lot of people, aha, Sienda, and just through like the party, the play party scene. - So we also met at Hasien that Max did not remember, but that's where we met. - No, I do remember. - No, you don't. - You had to remind me about this. - We met at Halloween, yeah. So yeah, Hasien does like a great place to meet people. So is that, is that where you've met cool? Or like clients, people that, well, that's how you got your teaching job. - But also, what about the performing? - Yeah, performing also. - But what does that entail? Like, what does that mean? How do you perform? - Okay, so. - It's you topping someone else, you tying someone else up. - I also perform as a bottom. - Okay. - The first time I ever performed was actually at my studio space, because I had an art show about a year ago, and at the art show, I did a Shabari performance. And it was kind of nice because. - But you were top or bottom? - I was bottoming in that one. - Okay. - It was kind of nice because I had, I invited a lot of like my tattoo clients and like people from my tattoo world. I had never seen that before. And a couple of my king people. So it was kind of like a clashing of worlds when I did that, it was fun. - That is great. So performing, it's something you'd like to do more of, or not at the moment. - Yeah, absolutely. I actually just performed this past week at Hacienda as a top. And that was my first time ever doing a topping session. Performing. - Really? 'Cause you're usually a top. - Yes, I am. - But when you perform, you're a bottom. You should be. - Mostly, I've only, mostly I performed as a bottom, yes. - So how did the difference feel? Like, 'cause you were topping last week. - There's a big difference. I mean, obviously the difference in topping and bottoming is that when you're bottoming, you're just kind of like receiving. Exactly. Like, you don't have to think much. That's the whole point. - Yeah, you just like go. - A smooth brain, you know? But when you're topping, it's kind of almost the opposite experience where the whole time, I was just like hyper focused. You know what I mean? And I actually realized, 'cause that was my first time topping performing. I actually realized that like 90% of it, I never looked up from the experience. Like I never looked at the audience, 'cause I was just so focused on what I was doing. - Are you supposed to? - I mean, you know, like if you're performing the ideas to like connect with the audience, you know? It's not necessary. - Yeah. - Especially for like-- - A kink scene. - Yeah, like a kink scene. I think it's expected 'cause like, you're mostly focused on your bottom, which is what you should be doing. - Correct. - But I did realize that like I was so focused on what I was doing, I almost forgot that I was performing. - But that's good. Like you got in it. - Yes, yes. It was great. Yeah, I think that's the biggest difference. - I mean, yeah, that's your obvious difference. But like how did it feel? I mean like afterwards was it the same sense of accomplishment or like euphoria or like-- - Well, the similar, the similarity between the two is that in a performance setting, I feel like I'm always able to push myself just a little bit further because there's a adrenaline aspect of being watched. And like people are seeing what's happening. So both as a top and as a bottom, I was able to, I think, like rise above what I would normally do just because it was a performance. And that was, that's like a huge rush, you know? So that's really what I love about performing. - That's great. - Yeah. - You said four years ago you were monogamous. - That's true. - Now you're not. - Yes. - So what happened? Like how did you transition? Or did rope help you transition to being monogamous? - Well, rope is like my introduction into kink. And-- - But was rope your first kink experience at all? - Ever. - Yes, I mean officially, yes. - Yeah. - I mean everybody probably does a little spank and add or something, you know? But like official rope experience was, yeah, kink experience was rope. And that happened because I, like I said, I feel like I always kind of had, I always, there were signs throughout my life that I was like kinky, but I just didn't have anybody in my life to share that with and I didn't have anybody. Like I just wasn't exposed to it, so I like didn't know any better, I guess. - Right. But how did you open up your relationship? - Oh, opening up your relationship? Okay, so that was something that it took a lot of time. It was a transition for sure. - 'Cause if you have one but I was working and you both want to transition to no, no, I mean that is like the hardest. - It was very challenging. - Yes, there was a lot of back and forth and like we both knew that it's something that we wanted, but it was kind of like where's the line and like we would always have to like draw the line and then step back a little bit and then draw a new line. So it was a lot of back and forth and that probably lasted about like maybe two years of like deciding-- - Do you really know anything happened? - Pretty much, like my life completely changed two years ago, the pandemic. I feel like that happened for a lot of people that like the pandemic really just like, like was a catalyst for so much change and that was true for me too. Yeah, I think right but actually right before the pandemic is when we started talking about opening up the relationship and then the pandemic hit and it was kind of like wah, wah. That's not gonna happen 'cause we couldn't do anything. And then when we came back from the pandemic, slowly started coming back to parties and then through the parties we'd have like experiences, talk about them, go back to the drawing board, decide what it was that worked, what didn't work. And then till now where we pretty much have like separate lives really like-- - So what does it look like now? What are your agreements now, for example? - Agreements. I think it's kind of like through trial and error we came to a place where we kind of like both let each other just do our own thing, especially because when our relationship started, my partner and I, like I said, we had like a clear like DS dynamic where I was the top and she was the bottom. But then over time when she looked kind of evolved in her king journey, realized she was more dominant to the point where now she's a pro-dom. So that just isn't gonna work because we're both tops. So I need to find some, I need to like branch out and be able to, you know, play with people or meet people that want to bottom and vice versa. So now we kind of have separate friend groups, date separate people and yeah, it works now. - Okay, and is what's off limits or? - I guess the only thing I would say is like early in our non-monogmy journey, we tried dating the same person and it was fun, it was a great experience, but it was a little messy. - Okay, but at the same time, like as a couple or individually dating the same person. - Like both dating one person. - Yeah, but dating them to get like-- - At the same time. - Right, okay, yes. But you could like both go on a date with the person or you could go on a date with them and then she would go on a date with them and so on and yeah. - When we were in that, I guess you would say triad. - Right. - Sometimes I would go with her, go with the other person on a date, sometimes she would go with the other person on a date, sometimes we have a double date. - Okay, but it was messy. - It was a little messy. - Okay, so is that off limits? - So that's kind of off limits now, I think, yeah. - Okay, one wasn't real. - We realized that didn't work. - I think triads, people don't really understand how advanced they are. - Yeah, really. - 'Cause everyone's like, oh my God, I would love to have a boyfriend and a girlfriend and like I would, like same, but at the same time, it's so complicated to keep things not necessarily equal but like fair and keep everyone happy and like if you were a couple, like couple privilege and I'm packing that and it's just, it's hard. - It is, I think, I'm nominog me in general. It's really hard because you have to really be, nothing is easy, let's put it that way. Nothing is easy. - Different challenges. - It's definitely different, but I feel with nominog me, like you really have to be good with yourself before you move forward with that. Because you need to be confident, both confident in yourself so that the jealousy doesn't overtake you, but also you need to be aware of what your boundaries are, you know, what your needs are and what, yeah. And be able to communicate those things to another person. - If you can communicate, you cannot be nominogamous. - Exactly. - Basically. - Exactly. - Okay, so you usually tie people up unless you're performing. - Yeah. - And are your performances mostly rope-based? - Yes, yes. - Okay. So, is it easy for you to go in subspace when you are bottoming, when you're so used to being a top? - Yeah, actually surprisingly. - But you only want them from one person too, so. - Yeah, as of right now, I would bottom for somebody else, but it's the kind of thing where I think it takes a lot of trust for me to be comfortable bottoming. So, yeah, it's a limited amount of people. But as for rope, I only have one person that ties me. And we have a really good dynamic. It's kind of a unique dynamic because I only bottom for her and she only tops for me. - Okay, that's fun. - Yeah. - Okay, and do you tie any one up or is that also like more special? - There's like degrees, you know? I mean, I do rope privates, so I will tie anyone up for the right price. - Right. (laughs) - But I also do tie my friends on occasion. - Like if you're at a party and you have your ropes and someone's like, "Can we be a rope bunny?" - Yeah. - Will it be like, "Okay," or like, "No." - I mean, yes, I guess I would, but especially in a party environment, you can only go so far, I think, with the row. - Right. - And still be able to have the communication that you need to make sure that it's safe and everybody's having good time. - Yeah. - So, I think that I would, I generally don't bring my ropes to play parties, 'cause especially at Hacienda, it's a little more of like a sex play environment, necessarily a kink environment. - Right. - But I guess to answer your question, like, "Yes, I would tie anyone, it just depends on the scenario." - Right. This is how much my new gut. (laughs) - Yeah, well, you know, depends on, depends on, yeah, it's gotta be the right. Yeah, it's gotta be very exchange. - Yeah, yeah, okay. Okay, because I feel like a lot of people would want to be rope bunnies, but-- - Yeah. - It's not easy then to find a top, like a rigor. - Yes. - It's like, right? - Yes, I think on both sides, it's hard to find tops and bottoms that you really connect with. - Okay. - Like when I first started tying a lot, I got a lot of people that were just like, "Timey, timey, timey." - Right. - But then you realize, once you start tying, you realize like some of these people they've never been tied before, they don't have very much experience and like they're not that serious about it. So then I kind of started like-- - Filtering? - Yeah, exactly, like filtering down the people that I actually want to tie with, 'cause I only have limited time. - Right. - So, yes, yeah. I think when it comes to finding tops, it's a little bit more challenging because I guess there's like more risk involves. If you're finding, you really need to find somebody that is going to be safe and is going into it for the right reasons. - What are the right reasons? - The right reasons is that you want a genuine connection and genuine like exchange, not. It's like, I feel like I've seen a lot of rigors out there that it's really like, the people that they're tying is they're just, they're just like a way to, do their thing, do their skill or do their practice. It's not about like, they're not like connecting with one another. - Okay. - They're not doing it for the purpose of, yeah, like finding, to have a connection with somebody and to-- - But is that-- - To give the, yeah, I think so. I mean, I'm not that it's wrong, but it's irresponsible. - Why, like why can't you just tie someone up to tie them up? - I mean, you can certainly tie somebody up just to tie somebody up, but when you come, when you're talking about a certain like level of Shabari, it starts to get more dangerous, like especially with suspension and stuff. - Yes. - If you're not being mindful of what you're doing, you could actually hurt somebody. - Yeah. - And it's also a mental thing. Like I know so many people that have been taken advantage of by tops just because they didn't know any better. - Right. In what way? 'Cause you're not necessarily speaking about sexually, you're speaking about it. - It could be sexually, it could be sexually in, or yeah, I mean, it kind of is a sexual thing, like-- - Or like you basically owe me sex a fight that you have kind of thing. - Maybe not owe you sex, but like-- - Like implied. - It's implied that you are just my plaything during this experience. But that's not the, unless you like already talked about that, that's not the implied agreement. So I think that's what it is. - Okay, and what is the difference between your regular rope tying and Shabari? 'Cause it's like two different things. Like not all rope tying is Shabari, but all Shabari is rope tying, you know? - Not sure. - No? - No, I think all rope tying is Shabari. - Really? - Yeah. 'Cause if you do like a boat, die on someone, or like if it's like messy or whatever, it's like not Shabari. It's just like rope tying, no? - I mean, I think, yeah, I think if you're doing it on a human being, that's called Shabari. - Really? - Yeah. - Okay, I feel like I've heard someone else say that there's a difference. - Hmm, interesting. - Yeah. - I don't know. - I don't know enough. I mean, you're the expert. But if you say it's the same. - This is my knowledge. There might be somebody who's more an expert than me. - Okay, okay, good. And how easy is it to actually hurt yourself? - Well, it's, the human body is pretty hardy. So you'd be surprised like how much you can take. - Yeah. - But at the same time, it's relatively easy if you're-- - If you don't know what you're doing. - You're responsible, yes. Like it's just about knowing what you're doing. If you know what you're doing, the risk is pretty low. If you're just going into a willy-nilly, then there's a higher possibility. - Right, 'cause I feel like when Anhasiandha, I actually got tied up by someone. And he told me so many, like we had a chat about like risks and safety. - Yeah, exactly. - But it made me feel like it was so easy for me to get, like to not be able to breathe or like get bruises, which is fine, I mean the bruises. But like, you know, to get your circulation cut off, like he made it seem like it was a really real risk. And I was like, okay, well, I trust you, so like do it. But how big is the risk actually? - I mean, I guess I would say-- - Has it happened to you? Like your limb, like-- - Yes, it has happened to me. Like, for example, I mean, it's kind of like, I guess I would say it's relatively low risk in general. But it's all about communication and knowledge. Like, if you have the knowledge, if you're communicating, the risk is like almost nothing. But if you're not doing that at any time you're doing kink, there's always, there's always going to be a certain amount of like, there's a certain amount of risk involved. - Well, any sexual act. - Any sexual act, true. And also a certain amount of risk of miscommunication, which can always happen. So that risk definitely always is there. But I don't think it's like, it's not like super high. - Okay. - Yeah, it's just something that you really need to be mindful of when doing Shabari. 'Cause it's, in Shabari, it's something where, yeah, like if, for example, if you're doing suspension and you drop something on their head, you could kill them, like that's actually a risk. - Yes. - So you wanna like, no, what you're doing before you go into it. - How to like, after you finish the scene, how you're going to let them down. - Yes. - Like it's not over until it's over. - Yes. I mean, in my opinion, it should, it's not over until the next day and you check in on them and like, make sure everything is cool. - The next, I thought you were just gonna say aftercare, no, the next day. - Aftercare, aftercare, after aftercare. (laughing) - Okay, Ava, so interesting. Okay, wait, and if people don't live in New York and they can come take one of your classes, what are some good resources? Like, what, I wanna start from zero, like, what do I do? - There's a lot of great websites out there. One of the ones I used early on is called The Duchy. That's kind of like a little bit more old school at a website, but the most like comprehensive one, I would say is Shabari Study. - I follow them. - Yeah. - Yeah, that's the best one, I think, out there. It's a little bit like straightforward, so that's good for somebody who's just starting to learn, but once you get into it a little bit, you might wanna branch out and take some classes from like-- - Like in-person classes? - In-person classes, yeah. I think that's really the best way to learn, but if you're just gonna start out on your own, YouTube, Shabari Study, that's how I did it. I think that that's a great way to look. - Okay, and how do you find your in-person teacher? Instagram, yeah, social media. - Right. - Yeah, being out in the scene. - Okay, and what should people look out for when vetting someone? - Right, experience, and talking to other people that have tied with them, that kind of thing. I think when it comes to anything like sex work or scene related, it's just about proof that they are doing it. - Okay, yeah. If they have a big following, if they have a lot of pictures, if you're able to talk to other people that have worked with them, those are all good things that you should be doing. - Right, and if you at some point don't feel comfortable, you can just leave and find someone else. - Yeah. - Also. - Yes, exactly, yes. - Okay. - Yeah, listen to your instincts, that's the biggest one. - Okay, good. I wanna talk about how this has changed your body image, firstly, has there been any difference before and after you started tying people up or being tied up? - I don't think so. I mean, I've always been relatively confident in my body image. Just like anyone else in this world, there's certain things. - I think most of us are really insecure. - Yeah, society ensures that you're insecure about your body image, regardless of what you look like, basically. - Right. - I don't think that necessarily rope has had like a huge impact on that. Besides maybe just feeling good about myself, like feeling like I look good when I'm tying, I look sexy when I'm in rope. So it's a positive thing, but I don't think it's like night and day or anything like that. - Okay, and what about your confidence? - Confidence? - Yeah. - Yeah, I think that having something in the kink world that I can claim is mine, I think definitely gives me a lot of confidence because I can be like, you know, when I'm out out in the scene or if I go to like a convention or something, people are like, why are you here? - Yeah. - You can be like, well, this is what I do. So it's yeah, it's something that I can gravitate towards. - Okay, and what about the way you express yourself before and after? Has there also been a change? - What do you mean express myself? - Like the way you express your identity, your, I don't know, like just yourself, like has that had any impact on it? Or I mean, it all really happened like two years ago, but they broke have anything to do with it or did it all, was it all just part of the journey? - I think it was something where like I said, I feel like I've always been a little bit like gravitated towards kink and rope in general, just because I find it really beautiful and like mysterious and since getting into it, I think that it's just become another like obsession for me, another like form of self-expression. Like I'm an artist, that's who I've always been. I'm a tattoo artist and this has now become like the most recent artistic endeavor for me. Like something that I really wanna like get good at and master so that I can create something above, like just straight tie, you know, something that's more artistic, maybe even like weave it into my artistic practice in photography. And also it's really inspired my tattoos. Like I do a lot of Shabari tattoos. - Yeah, I was just thinking that. - It's kind of my whole world now. Like I don't know when or how this happened, but I tattoo Shabari, I do Shabari, I top Shabari, I bottom Shabari. - You teach it. - I teach it, oh my God, it's like my entire world. I don't know. - Yeah, so what I really wanna know is if it has like, how has it changed you as a person? If it's not just, it give you a place in the scene, in the community, but how else has it affected or impacted your life? - Hmm, I haven't really given much thoughts that. I feel like it's maybe a means for meeting other people. I think that in general, like I've kind of always been a little bit introverted and like, kind of like the sensitive artist type. You know, like when you're an artist, you spend so much, so much of your time alone like drawing at home. So you're not really like out being social. And doing Shabari and getting into the scene has definitely opened me up in that way. Like I found that I've become a lot more social over the past couple of years. And it's really like the motivation of wanting to meet people to tie with and learning more about the scene. And yeah, something like that. - Okay, it's been very positive mainly, but if you had to compare the max from 10 years ago and the max from today, like with-- - Well, the max didn't exist 'cause that's not a real name. (laughs) - How long have you been using max? - Probably the same amount of time. - Two years. - Literally everything in my life happened two years ago. - Okay, what would they say, or would they be surprised? Like what would their reaction be? You know, you could like travel and they would see you in what, what do you think they would say? Or what are the differences between you and this max, which is not even that max. That max did not fucking exist. (laughs) - The new me, the max well. I think I feel like I really like come into my own a little bit more in as the max well. Because before I feel like it was kind of my art and me were the same thing. So it seemed like whatever happened to me in my art life, I took as a personal thing. But having like a persona, like a king persona, like a scene persona, it allows me to maybe be a little bit more expressive in ways that I wouldn't be able to just as like my normal everyday self. So it's definitely improved my confidence. - But would they be surprised if they could see you? - Who like? - Like your 10 year old past self. - My 10 year old past self? - Yeah, would they be like, that makes sense or maybe? - Oh yeah, I think so. Because like I said, like I was saying before, I feel like there was signs early on that this is something that I will always wanted to do. Yeah, I mean, I think 10 years ago, maybe you would be very proud of it. - It'd be like, of course you go by max. (laughs) - Well, max is actually, it's my poor name. So do you know how you get the poor name? - Yeah, well, there's like a thousand ways of getting your poor name. - There's a thousand ways. But yeah, the way that I always was taught was that you take your dog's name and the street that you lived on when you were a little. - Stop. - Yes, and my dog was Maxwell. So now I'm Maxwell. - That's cute. - Yeah. - Okay, 'cause I always see like on social media like, you know, it's just a list. Like your first name letter, last name, first letter, whatever the fuck you just combined. - Wait, but fear, is that was not the street you lived in? - No, I didn't do the street part. - Okay. - Yeah. - Fierce is because-- - I was like, there's no way that was such a coincidence. - No, that'd be so cool. I will outfierce the avenue. - Yeah. (laughs) - No, I decided to, I'll take the first name part 'cause I like Maxwell. - Yeah. - I also have kind of like a unique regular name. So I was going for something that was like average, I suppose. - Wait, who calls you? - Also, like, also I wanted something that was gonna be like not gender conforming 'cause I'm non-binary. So it could be either. - Wait, but does everyone call you Max now? Or are there still people? - No, pretty much. - Okay. - I still go by my, I can say it, my name's Galen professionally as a tattooer. So I still go by Galen. - Wait, so if someone books you for a tattoo appointment, they use your other name, but then, but those two clients that transitioned from tattooing to rope, what do they call you? - They call me Max now. - They had to transition to Max. - Yeah, they're used to it now. - Okay. - That's, that's really interesting. - Mm-hmm. - Okay, and but other than that, like all your friends just call you Max, basically. It's just professional. - Pretty much 'cause the majority of my friends are in the scene, so. - From two years ago. - Since the pandemic pretty much, yeah. Yeah, pretty, exactly. - Okay, yeah, but you don't mind when people use your legal name or whatever. - I don't, but it just, it sounds weird now to hear it. - Yeah, you've adopted Max. Have you ever thought about legally changing it or not? - No, no, no, no, it's 'cause it's like a, it's like a personal, it's an alter ego, you know? - Yeah, no, but you've basically made that your normal ego, like that's you now. - This is the majority of my life. - Like now the other one feels foreign, so you're Max. - It's true, but if I made that my actual name, then I would no longer have the-- - The uppersonan. - The superhero. - Right. (laughs) - But it's so cool that you created someone and you managed to became them. - Yeah. - You know, make it till you make it, yeah. - That's how you do it. - I have to ask you, would you rather, ooh, would you rather never get tied up again or never tie someone else again? - Oh. - Well, I guess, I mean, I don't want to choose that. - You don't, I mean, in real life, you don't have to, but for the sake of my game. - Because I generally top, I guess I would have to say, I would like to-- - Never tie someone else up again. You didn't even say it. - No, never tie. (laughs) - I would prefer to only top, then only bottom. - Right. - But that would be too hard of a decision, 'cause it's also kind of the thing where, for me, bottoming informs my topping, because if I don't understand the experience at the bottom, how am I ever supposed to understand what I'm doing to them when I'm topping? - Yeah. Okay, yeah, it's just the game, it's funny. - Yeah, sorry. - No one's gonna make you not bottoming it. - Yes, I understand. - Okay, but it would be so hard to give it up then. - Yeah, even if you do the other most of the time. - Yeah, for sure. Yeah, personally I think that that's true in any game, really, like, if you can't bottom, then you can't necessarily be a proper top. - Do you think that applies for anal sex? - Mm. (laughs) - Maybe controversial, but-- - Yes. (laughs) - I love it. I mean, honestly, I feel like people, some people that have never received, they really don't understand what they're doing to someone else. - Also, on this planet, we only have the one chance to be here. How could you possibly be like-- - I don't wanna experience-- - No, I only want one side of it. I don't wanna experience the other one. Who knows about that? Society's a little weird. - Yeah. - You know what I mean? - I know exactly what you mean. Okay, lastly, what about rope-ringing and sex? - Yes. - If you had to choose. 'Cause now, like, rope is your fucking life. - Wait, if I could never have sex again? - Yeah. - No, no. - Forget rope. (laughs) - No contest there. - Fuck that. (laughs) - Okay. - But it will be so hard. - My first love, so-- - Yeah, but then what will you do? - What would I do? - Yeah, just to do. We'll find another outlet for art. - There's lots of other things you can do, yeah. - Okay, so it's sex. - Sex. - That's my choice. - Okay, okay. Now, are you ready to turn off the lights? - Let's do it. (laughs) - Person. [MUSIC]
