(upbeat music) - That's what grown men do. They throw their equipment around all the bags. Now that you're gonna say they'll loudly say, I'm a grown man. (laughing) I often say that. - I say it all the way. I wake up every day and I'm not yet this, but I go full mic, Gundy. - Yeah. - I'm a man, I'm 40. - Yeah, but I'm not 40, so I don't say that. - Yeah. - If you're for tempering, you're screaming. - Yeah, I know, I know. - I'm white, I'm bad for the, I'm bad. - And I also backed away from the mic, like I double tempered it. It's like tempered glass, you know what that means. - I am 40 and I am a man. But yeah, do you say that often? You should. - I don't know if I've actually said it once, since I'm turning 40. - If you, like, I guess the reference would be lost on your children, I presume. But I would be- - Yeah, they're agencies. - Yeah, I know. I would be incapable of not. You don't talk to me like that. - I'm a man, I'm 40. - I'm mostly with my children trying to convince themselves that they are not babies, that they need to- - That they're men. - They need to up their game. And they can't be throwing stuff. That's part of the role of my house. No, stop throwing those pillows everywhere. Or yeah, your gloves say that were to happen. And that has, like, you know, my eldest, he'll throw his glove around during practice, just to mess around or whatever, and don't do that. - Yeah. - That's expensive. - Yeah. - Team with Solani. - Anyways, I guess if you were gonna have the positive interpretation of what we saw in the bench in the second period of Saturdays, Toronto Maple Leafs, Poses and Hockey Gaming, which they lost three-one to the Boston Bruins to find themselves in a three-one series hole, it would be that one, hey, finally some emotion out of these guys. And you know, Sheldon Keefe did try to, like, he did, he attempted the spin zone afterwards. It's like, hey, this is what we want from these guys. That's an evolution. - Yep. - And also, you could actually point to scoreboard in the third period, Mitch Marner scored. He did. - It's a beautiful goal. I feel like we've actually mentioned that yet today. That was the exact text I said of, like, of course. - Of course. - Beautiful highlight, really. - I mean, does Brad Marr-Shan have more points than awesome Matthews, Mitch Marner, John Tavares, Billy Kneelander combined? He does. - Yeah. (laughing) - If you were going to be optimistic, you would say, carry that over, that fire, that fervor that we saw on the bench, maybe the glove throwing because, yeah. - Yeah, maybe keep your gloves on. - That one's like, I mean, how often did we see that? Also, like, yeah, I wanna know the immediate aftermath of that. And sportsman has a camera, obviously on the bench at all times. So someone could dig this up. Like, I do, I am interested, like, did somebody else have to pick up the gloves or did, like, Mitch Marner, like, did he wait 15 seconds before picking up the gloves? You don't wanna pick him up immediately. 'Cause then it's like, how did that actually, the machinations of that work and the immediate aftermath of the glove throwing? - My guess, Bobby Hastings picks them up. And this part is more of a, like, that I'm pretty confident on. I wonder if we do a glove switch. This guy's have a million pieces of equipment at all points in time. Wasn't out there immediately right after. I wondered if Bobby's like, you know what, he's right. It is the gloves fault. - You know what, yeah. Bobby Hastings, if he had to pick him up, kind of reminds me of a similar incident I once had playing Adult Safe Hockey League hockey. - Hockey, okay. - My good buddy, he has a temper. - Okay, I love this guy already. - It was quite upset at an officiating decision. Eventually had himself ejected from the hockey game and decided not to go full on, but, like, start removing articles of his, of his equipment and, like, started putting it at center ice. - Nice. (laughs) - I mean, and then everyone kind of looked around and was like, well, who's going to be? - And I was the guy that had just been the bat boy. You're like the bat boy when a guy gets a walk and he's like, all right, let me put my elbow here, my elbow pad on my head. - I do want to continue this hockey game. So I like, that's hilarious. - That's hilarious. - To pick up his jersey and his shoulder pads and his elbow pad. - Have you ever thrown equipment? - Like, in a, I mean, the equipment I use now is a golf club and I, like, there's nothing more satisfying than, like, one good chuck. - Oh, we've seen the video of Rory just, like, skipping it across the pond at Trump to Rowland and then the orange one had to go to. - It's different, though, in an individual sport, like, golf, honestly. - So I, the only time I can recall, I've never thrown a club, I don't think. I've definitely, like, ever? - I don't, I really don't think I've ever thrown a club. Like, that was, like, pretty well ingrained in me, like-- - It's been a while. I'll do the, like, the slam. - I love a slam. - Oh, especially, like, fine with the rough in itself. - But I definitely thrown a club. - I cannot, usually it's a putter, like, miss a short putt, throw it towards my bag from the green. - Frustrated putter toss for me and then catch it as my, as my move, when I, as I always do, leave my putt, like, an inch short in front of the hole. But yeah, I think the only one I can recall is that this is, like, God, this is just quite the tail. I once got ejected from a high school tennis match for throwing my racket. I tried to throw it at the net, but it went over the net and then, like, then, like, skid it across and hit a kid on the foot, one court over. And they, they banned me from the tournament and then I had to go to, like, a Toronto district school board tribunal for my behavior. So I have to throw it at the end. - So it's not quite as good as Dennis Chappell of smoking that... - Oh, that's right. - With Dennis Fall. - And it's, like, he's Chappell, on me, you know. - All right, stuck to a guy who's always in charge of his emotions, gourd, stellar. - And loves tennis, funnily enough. - How's it going, Gordo? Are you a guy that throws a piece of equipment? - So, whenever that day is, I go to the perlite gates. They'll spend a lot of time on that about accountability. I think the check mark in the positive is a lot way, but I definitely spend some extra time there, unfortunately. - Yeah, hey, listen. And sometimes, you got to. - We all have flaws. I'm happy you own up to yours, Gordo. - Yeah, yeah. - Okay, it's hard not to overreact to the first 40 minutes of that hockey game on Saturday in the moment, in the moment. Like, steam was rising out of the top of my head, and I'm just sitting at home watching the thing. I mean, now that we have the benefit of hindsight and yada, yada, yada, the caveats, yada, yada. Like, how mad, how sickening was the opening 40 minutes of that hockey game on Saturday? - Yeah, you know, so because, you know, here we go. So tomorrow, they talk about the reality. So tomorrow, taxes, death, I hope to put off for decades and decades, and it seems like, same time next year, this, right? And so, I couldn't even get, as a fan, angry about it, because it's kind of like you said, are you kidding me? Are you seriously kidding me? And, you know, and then at the end, okay, give some credit in the third period, and if they could have pulled off what Vancouver pulled off last night, that I'd been thoroughly outplayed, but coming back, tying the game late, and winning an overtime, okay, we could have a bit of a different narrative. But, yeah, I just, you know, it spoke for itself. It's baffling, it makes no sense. It's inexcusable. Post-game stuff is mostly lame, but I don't, you know, maybe that's the way to go. I don't know. I prefer someone like Rick Bonas being kind of direct about his Winnipeg Jet Team, for example, because let's, you know, what are we gonna tape another, "We Are The World" video or something again about it? I don't know, and then, and then the number of the one is, you know, then, you know, pulling the fans into a last couple of games, and that's a discussion for a whole other day. I mean, that's a discussion about, you know, best arenas, positives, negatives, about the energy, whatever, that's a whole different discussion. Six, consecutive playoff losses at home. Are you serious? Are you absolutely serious? Whether you're like a, how, well, the house thing doesn't have a whole mic. Well, I guess you have a whole marina. I don't know, but still, I mean, that, I've never, I've never, I don't even know what to characterize that. It's deplorable, it's not even a fair word, even it is, it's unbelievable. It baffles any sense of logic, because, you know, to get into playoffs means you're a half decent team. Six, consecutive home playoff losses, really? Yeah, it's nuts, it's unexcusable. I mean, sure line, I'll steal it. If you're gonna suck, suck on the road, right? Like, if you're gonna lose six straight playoff games, go do it in Boston, or in Tampa, or in Florida, for that matter. They've had their chances of places to lose road playoff games, but yeah, home has just been this big bugaboo. I mean, you mentioned what happened in Vancouver. It is funny how different we could have looked at Saturday night. If Neelander and Marner and Matthews are at each other's throats on the bench, and then Marner scores the goal, like he does, and all of a sudden, that's the start of a comeback. We're talking about what a great sign of a team it is that they can go at each other in that way and bounce back, but it looked the exact opposite of that gourd. I mean, obviously that's a big topic today. The three of them kind of snipe it at one another, and I think it's good that teammates are having some animosity on the bench. You want people invested, but what did you make of the three of them and then Marner tossing his gloves afterwards? - Well, I mean, that's the stuff you were talking about coming on about showing emotion in different sports. And I liked it. I mean, you probably should have done it five years ago. I mean, that's part of it. I love watching Patrick Hornfuss go with Sydney Crosby and the joke, like, that's part of being a champion. That's kind of the, you know, Henrik Lundquist, he's the personal guy. He was hard on his D like, I don't mind that at all. I just, I liked it. I thought that was great. And, you know, more, you know, I viewed it as a positive and constructive. So, so the scene is set in some ways. Like, I mean, again, you go back. You got, I've liked the way Ryan Reeves has played, but you've had two fourth-line goals against, right? You have TJ Brody's first game. He gets out, you know, he screws up on that shift. You got, you know, you get, oh, gold-handed every game by about one goal. Yeah, you get, the special teams are absurd, you know, on and on and on. So really, whether it's that emotion of talking, here's the opportunity. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, as they say, put lipstick on or whatever. In that, okay, it's, it's like simple. You go out and do what the Florida Panthers did last year. They were down 3-1 to Boston. And that turned their whole fortunes around. Or like deck, whatever it was when the Boston Red Sox had never won, had the curse, down 3-0 to the New York Yankees that got killed, came back one four straight, never looked back, won a couple of World Series. Okay, now I'm being, you know, like a little bit, Dale Carnegie, the power of positive thinking or whoever the modern day version is. But, you know, really, whatever it, whatever it takes, that's the only, only solution for the Toronto Maple Leafs right now moving forward. What, whatever positives they felt they got out of the game, 'cause I didn't see very many, that that's the kind of stuff they got to look at. I, ideally the next three games, or it would be, could be with a thud tomorrow night. Yeah, Tony Robbins, is he still doing stuff? Like he feels like-- That'd be a better next guy, yeah. There's probably a modern, who would be, yeah. Tony Robbins. It's the name for Jeff Blair. He was such a good upbeat guy. Travis McKenzie, oh, I don't know who he has the energy, but that's a great joke for the three of us going. (laughing) Everyone out there has a Travis. You know, they go to work and there's a Travis there. That's what they, they need a little bit of that. Then you say, why does that nice person have two phones and it gets really weird, but you're right. We all love Travis. Yeah. Oh geez. (laughing) Okay, so it feels like pretty clearly that Mitch Marner's gonna wear this if they bow out in the first round of the Boston Bruins. Saturday was, unlike I've ever seen it before, where just about everybody taking him to task after the first 40 minutes. And he scores the nice goal, and yeah, if William Neelander doesn't gank tackle Jake DeBrusk and take the penalty, maybe there is an incredible comeback on the horizon for the Maple Leafs in that hockey game. Instead, they lose 3-1. Is the Marner discourse, is the extreme criticism that he's getting from now like pretty mainstream hockey sources? Is that warranted? Stop the pity party for Mitch Marner. Okay, stop, stop the pity party for Mitch Marner. Okay, they're getting constructive criticism as are the rest of the team. It seems every year when they go out, there's more concern about unfair criticism, which if you're talking social media, that's a whole different animal. They deserve constructive criticism. I would hope they'd be giving themselves internally constructive criticism about how they're playing. So, you know, hey, that's too easy. That's too easy a blame, it's not that. It never was that. I do not understand why it becomes a storyline. Then the regular season, he goes back to being a rock star. You know, he gets, they get treated very well here. They put on a great performance in the regular season. They're very exciting, entertaining team to watch. But this year after year after year, what are we avoiding? The facts, like I think part of the problem is too often it's been swept under. There's not been, whether it's Mitch or anybody else, I think a healthy dose of accountability and learning and growing from it, because that's what they sow and show every spring. So I do not put this on any one individual at all, but it does give him and the other guys a chance, whatever, to do what Marcin did the other night, whomever it does, whatever the player is, to make a difference in a game like Austin Matthews did in game number two. I mean, that's just the opportunity. But I'm tired of that narrative of the pity party. Just go talk on the ice. - Yeah, I'm right there with you. The weird thing when you look at Marner Matthews, Nielander is, you know, Marner does seem to, I mean, it seems like he wears it the most in the playoffs. If you look at the numbers, he's actually the one who has produced the most, just in terms of kind of raw points of that group. But do you think there's something about the playoffs in his play style? I mean, look, we know he is a slick playmaker. He's somebody who wants to thrive and open space. And there's less of that in the postseason. This isn't me sitting here saying, can the Leafs ever win with Mitch Marner? But is there something about the playoffs that makes it harder for a player that plays the game in the way he does? And I don't say that to say he never goes in the dirty areas or anything along those lines, but he is who he is as a player on the other side of things as well. - Yeah, and the one point you brought up, Brad, and that's why when, say, you know, criticism in general after the Columbus Montreal series, I remember like one Boston star, I think Mitch Marner was the best Leafs. You know, he had a great series, one of those against Boston, one of those seven game losses. So it's not like he hasn't performed in the playoffs. It's a, the simple thing is, there's less ice out there in the playoffs. You know, that's a, so it's harder for the skilled players to get room and all those other things and whatever it may be, whether it's adapting as a team, as individuals, they just haven't been able to seem to do it. So yeah, it's a, it is a different style of hockey. We all know that. And obviously just basing on the record, not just Marner, but the entire team, do not in any way thrive or succeed in the playoff hockey, anywhere close to what they do in the regular season. And that's, you know, that's the whole issue of trying to, you know, figure things out, which they haven't till. And they have, you know, three more games. Maybe if you win, I don't even know what a seventh game, seventh game loss would be how acceptable would be perceived and I don't know. - Not acceptable. - Anyway. Well, we'll cross that bridge and we get to it, okay? Right now, you kind of look at it, I try to make it game six, but yeah, that's it. That's plain and simple. They have whatever it's figuring it out, or just I, I'm sure they know, but it's just about being able to execute consistently. And again, it's not just Mitch Marner, it's everybody on the team by and large. - Yeah. And Austin Matthews won a game all by himself in this series. It was game two. And then since then has suffered an illness, I suppose he hasn't looked like the same guy at all in game three and four and then in game four, not allowed to return for the third period. Listen, I don't know what he's dealing with. This is obviously something, but I don't know if I've ever heard of somebody being told by doctors, hey, now you can't play the third period because of an illness despite having played the first 40 minutes and it wasn't great, but he was in a bunch of shots on goal. Like, have you ever heard of that? Somebody being pulled in the middle of the game because of an illness? - Well, nothing is dramatic is that your star player being pulled in the playoffs, but and again, okay, the old days, okay, a doctor didn't, it wasn't even probably brought to the doctor's attention. - I would pay money to watch. I'm just trying to think of the best picture person to throw in as an example here. Like a doctor going to Larry Robinson and being like, hey, you're sick. And I'm not saying this is a knock on Matthews, but God, what a different world that it is now. - Well, and then most of that's positive as well. I mean, that one shift they showed and whether it's food poisoning or whatever, it may be some kind of flu bug, he just added. I mean, it could have been dehydrated, didn't have his legs, whatever. So, I mean, and actually on that play, even though Brody was the guy that, kind of the one guy that messed up at the end there, but you know, Matthews, you can see not able to come back on one particular play. So, whatever it may be, the extra day off, if that helps him, that's a positive, if that helps knee lander again, that's a positive, it seems right now on sick bay, whatever, the Leafs have two more question marks than the Boston Bruins do right now. But yeah, just, you know, and again, and at least this time, it's not being used as an excuse because too often, again, they go back to the Jake Muzzin injury in Columbus and then John Tavares against Montreal that a singular injury is pointed out as a difference maker and that's, you know, that's never the case, but it would be nice if both those guys, obviously if both those guys are healthy and on knee lander obviously played on Saturday, but are healthier for the game tomorrow night. - Yeah, and look, like they're rightfully so, is a lot of focus on the stars today. That's what this team is built on. They're gonna need those guys to be great, but so much of the reason for confidence heading into this series was the depth, the talent up and down the lineup. And I don't just mean that in terms of the guys that could get you a goal when you needed one. It felt like if there was gonna be a lack of life, like quite honestly, we did see in that game on Saturday night, it seemed like heading into the playoffs, the Leafs had more guys that could kind of pull that out of them, be it Orion Reeves, a Bertuzzi, a Domian. Again, I don't put what happened on Saturday on any of those guys individually, or even the three of them as a collective, but it does seem like that was something that was missing. You know, the idea was that you had a fourth line that could run around, have an energy shift, kind of tilt the ice back. And again, they didn't lose that game 'cause Nick Robertson played on the fourth line and the fourth line wasn't great, but I thought that was kind of a misstep as well on Saturday night. It was just not being able to find any of that energy, and not offense, not production, but just some life from somewhere else in the lineup outside of the stars as well. - Yeah, well, everything was missing the first 40 minutes. But you know, you thought it's the most important game of the season, and you know, and I'm not going to take the task, do you want to say the effort was there, whatever, that they're not trying. I mean, geez, you're in the NHL, but certainly again, the way it played out was unbelievable. It just, unbelievable, the FedEx is a pretty strong word, but that would be it, like whatever. So again, then you start dissecting things and you know, you're mentioning a lot of positives. And I agreed about, you know, that's what got me. I picked the Leafs in six about those elements. And again, I talk about the fourth line, which has really played well, but again, critical goals in game one, and then game four, you know, fourth line goals. And then you got Max Domi, who's playing great, but two penalties, the kind they got to avoid. And of course, 'cause the Bruin Power Place killing, and the Leafs PK can't do it, the Bruin score both times. So you know, these, you know, like, you know, Matt Rempe gets a bad penalty the other day for the Rangers, but they kill it off. So he gets to go out and play eight and a half minutes and be a factor in that particular game with the Rangers against Washington. So the more we dissect it, the more it's a story you don't even want, you don't want to read it. So it's a book you put down and you pick another book out. Maybe the book I wrote with Damien about the Leafs team back in, you know, whatever. - Well, no, I know what part you wrote, Gordon, and I read those. - Yeah. (laughing) - So anyway, it was, that's what it is. So the whole, really, the whole thing is let's see what, let's see how they speak on the ice on Tuesday. And, you know, let's hope by bottoming out, it's a sign of only good things to come. - Who would you start in goal tomorrow night in Boston? - Joe Ball. - I'm with you. - That question. - Yeah, yeah, I mean, because you think that the Elias Sampsonov hasn't performed well enough, or like, what would you be your reasoning behind it? - The Elias Sampsonov won't be the reason. Just, I like ball coming in. I think you need something that's a bit of a spark. I thought, you know, like it's that Jeremy Swamans in their head, Elias Sampsonov's not in their head. You know, that, it's more the game before that short side goal, when all that, just whatever, just the timely goal that gains. So, you know, that's what you do. That's what you do when you're down. And either way, it's not gonna be, goal ten, he's not gonna cost him the series, but goal ten, he is one of many checklists of advantages in the Bruins favor right now. And that's why they're up 3-1. - Yeah, I mean, if you got otherworldly goal tending, you could be leading the series, like you're allowed to. Yeah, you're allowed to win hockey games, and that's the only way the Leafs can do it without scoring a bunch. 'Cause it's now a million straight games. In the postseason, they've failed to score more than three goals. Gordo, always a pleasure. Body, thanks for doing this. - Well, to the interesting, well, boy, next Monday, next Monday will be a watershed chat one way or another. So, look forward to that. So, anyway, have a good week, guys. We'll see what gets. - Yeah, we will. See you, man. Gord, Stellik, yeah, one way or another. I mean, is it a slightly different conversation if it's a game seven loss for the Leafs? I guess the most, I don't discount that possibility at all, by the way. - Not remotely. - And anybody that's watched the last seven years of the postseason this team almost should expect it. - At the very least, game six. - Yeah, well, 'cause we're supposed to go to... - No, I just think that, like, the idea that it almost is never just completely bleak. I know it was against the Panthers last year, but it's almost never that. - Game five went to overtime, dead cap bounce. - And yeah, I also, I do think, I know I shouldn't, but I do think, how will they torture me the most? And me being there to watch the season end would be less than great. - Just when they think you're out, they pull you back in, whether it's... - Got father three. - Yeah, whether it's giving up nine goals in Buffalo or losing. Remember, like, Ridley Grigg, like, that happened because the Leafs lost to the Ottawa freaking Senators. - Yeah, they do all the time. - Like, in a moment of the season in which their postseason spot was not secured, they then went on and secured it on the strength of seven consecutive victories, five of which, without their number one defensemen against, you know, some of those wins were against the Golden Knights and the Avalanche, like... - Remember. (laughs) - So, yeah, you should be expecting some sort of bounce back tomorrow, but yeah, it doesn't change too much of the conversation for me if they lose in the first round, especially if it continues to be, the reason that they lose it is because they're not scoring enough on the power play and the stars aren't scoring enough. Like, I suppose you can change the narrative slightly if it's a bunch of, like, seven, six losses. - I don't anticipate that happening. I just really don't. - Yeah, no, I don't see a world where I think that much like that Game 3, or Game 2, I always forget which one it was, whatever the two minutes at the start of the second period that sunk them against the Panthers last year and came to her Game 3, much like that for me, and I know it's not for everybody. - It was Game 2 'cause it was at home. - Great, good job. - That was the watershed moment where there's kind of no coming back from this. When the series, and we'll have a conversation, sure, but that's gonna be the moment I remember from this series is them just coming out flat to start that second period that we're really never in the series from that moment on. I think it's very possible that when it's all said and done, we just look back to the first 40 minutes of that Saturday night game. We could talk about Swamin' and we could talk about Matthews being sick and Kneelander missing the first three games and yada, yada, yada, whatever other caveats you wanna throw in there, it's all gonna come back to the first 40 minutes of that game on Saturday. I think it is such a kind of flashpoint moment. And I think that when you have a referendum on the individual players, you can have a conversation about Matthews again, and if the season ends tomorrow night, we're gonna get an explanation on this. They will not be able to rush to a mic fast enough to tell us what was wrong with Austin Matthews, given that he was pulled out of a playoff game 'cause he was sick. So we're gonna get some information on that. So I think that when you look at individual players, you can have the caveat of, okay, are we gonna rake Matthews over the coals if he, you know, who knows what's going on with them? We're gonna be critical of him, but I think it colors the conversation. But I think that there has been such a body of work with this core that despite all the caveats I threw out, it was basically like caveat corner to start the show. >> Yeah, yeah, it's weird that you started our Leafs conversation with all the caveats. >> 'Cause I wanted to get it out of the way. I wanted to have a conversation, but it's like there. I said the thing, we can all move on. It was like, they do the disclaimer at the end of infomercials. I just wanted to get it out at the very beginning, and then we could have fun for the rest of the show. Despite all those caveats, you can look at Newlander that way or Matthews that way, or I don't know how effective is Max Domi if Austin Matthews isn't that the best version of himself. You have all those conversations. But for the team as a whole, for the core as a whole, there's been so many kicks at the can of this that I don't really care if Matthews is sick. I don't really care the Newlander miss first three games. And I don't really care that Moderna might be dinged up. >> Of the same meal that we've been force fed for the last decade. >> Yeah, and it's like, it's unlike in Oliver Twist, it's not, I'm going, I'm good. I've had enough and they're like, more. >> Yeah. >> Please, sir. You need some. >> No, you can keep that one. You know, I also want to say, good job, everybody. Nobody bringing out the, like, whoa, look at the shot attempts in the first 40 minutes of that game or like the total shots on goal. Like, yeah, I'm not going to make the straw man argument because it is a straw man. There is- >> I didn't see a soul. >> Anybody that watched the first 40 minutes, and honestly, I'd like to believe that even Sheldon Keef had this opinion, despite what you heard of him, heard from him at the conclusion of the game. Like, there's just, there's no watching hockey. There's nobody that's seen a postseason hockey game, seen what teams look like when they feel like they're desperate for a win, whether that's an elimination game or not. And that wasn't an elimination game. Hey, in the least one, two elimination games last year. One was game six against the Lightning. One was actually game four against the Panthers as they saved it off for a day. And then they lost the next game in the series. But yeah, that wasn't an elimination game, but they had to know the stakes of obviously evening up this series going back on the road or a three-one deficit. And anybody that's seen any hockey team in the postseason and how they look when they're desperate, even a team that has a talent deficit like the Los Angeles Kings to the Edmonton Oilers. But look at how they look in those moments and look at how the Maple Leafs looked in the exact same spot on Saturday night against a team that they on balance should have enough talent to beat in a seven-game series. It was not there. - Yeah, it wasn't. And I think that when you look at the, oh God, no one actually wants this, but wouldn't you just love a year where there wasn't an excuse to be had and they performed like this and you could just know? You know, I've done this a million times before and I don't want to like derail the conversation, but much like with the Kyle Dubas of it all, even the people who hate them the most, I feel like they would love to go back to a non-flat cap and be like, "See, I told you, it was a terrible idea." You just want an actual answer hard and fast on this. And it is so frustrating. And this isn't the right way to do it, but we're all creatures of habit. I mean, I won't speak for you. Me, myself, I know if there's an excuse in my life, you know, maybe I'll try to do the right thing, but oh God, I do love me an excuse, okay? That door's there. I think a lot of people are want to take it and every single turn, there's been a thing that most people look at and say, "I'll get out of here with that," but that's not invalid. Did the Leafs win three games after losing their captain to Montreal? They did. They lost their captain in their second line center and in the first 10 minutes of a playoff series. That can't be like, it shouldn't have mattered. They should have won that series regardless. It matters, okay? Matthews, he has the plague or whatever's going on with him. He's the best goal scorer in potentially the history of the game. That matters. And what's frustrating is we have enough body of work that it shouldn't change the argument on all this, but there's just enough that you can squint and hum and hum and hum and hum and I think that is why. - Who's gonna do that though? - Well, so this is what I was gonna say. I think that is why it is so, no one wants to have this conversation now 'cause we hope the Leafs come back and it's a long playoff run, but I think that is why people are so encouraged while things say, "I know," but the Keith Pelly is here 'cause it feels like real consequences. Real change, real comeuppance could come if this series goes the way it's trending. - Yeah, the excuses which are valid, I think, boy, I would like to thank, ain't no doctor, but I would like to think an extra day off, like they had the extra day off before Saturday's game. It was awesome how they were dealing with this thing in game three of that series. They had extra day off, think like almost a week going by before game five tomorrow night. That'd be, and it's William Neelander's second game of the postseason, he got the one game getting his feet under him. Mitch Marner, okay, you can say he's still dealing with the high ankle sprain. Looked okay in the third period on that goal. - Yeah, and in game three when he was setting up eyes. - Sure. - So it's there, and okay, or-- - I should also point out if there's like two really nice plays that Mitch Marner made, like you shouldn't say that as a knock. - Is the margins razor thin right now? Yeah, of course, but is there enough time that you would think that okay, even those excuses, come on, like how much time do you need to get a, like what is this illness, by the way? Something that is, yeah, has somebody who has an MD after their name saying you can't play in a hockey game, supposedly. But yeah, even those excuses, I mean, they go by the wayside, especially if they lose tomorrow night in Boston. My God, like how much time do you need? - Yeah, the frustrating thing is 'cause it's the Leafs. If they do lose tomorrow night in Boston, it will be the Swamin performance we've been talking about where it's 57 saves on 59 shots or something like that and they lose a three, two game. And it, 'cause this is what, no, but that's the thing. This is what this team always does. Is there was always the last stand, there's always the, oh, what happened here? Yeah, I know everybody's a Amelka, all of a sudden against this team. It's infuriating, it really is. - Yeah, good times. Annie, golden generation baby, living in it. - Great to sleep all time on the team, probably. - Almost certainly, it's pretty crazy. And it's gonna keep Mitch Marner from getting there as if he's not Toronto Maple Leaf. Like if he's a remains Toronto Maple Leaf for another half decade, there's no question. He's right there. - I was talking about Matthews, yeah, I was talking about it. - But no, but like two of the greatest, like counting statistics and pace for greatest in the history of the franchise. Anyways, it's good stuff. All right, when we come back, they're having a very different conversation in Vancouver today, they're not happy one? - Yeah, they're not bringing the city down. - No, they're Amelka not yet. So they haven't started to have it yet. - I think the opposite, I think they're like, just they're chomping at the bit to have it. - What a comeback victory for them. As they grab victory out of the jaws of defeat, we'll get into that and Joel Embiid ripping his own fan base as well. Next is the fan morning show continues. Ben Anis, Brent Gunning, Sportsnet 590, the fan. - Big guests and bigger opinions on everything happening in Leaf's Land. Real Gipper and Born, be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. (dramatic music) (upbeat music) - Fan morning show, Sportsnet 590, the fan, Ben Anis, Brent Gunning, Colton Sisions dad's a shame. - Mm. - It's the post on the empty netter, the chance to salt it away against the Vancouver Canucks yesterday. And even that series, two games apiece between the Preds and the Vancouver Canucks. Instead, backhand goes off the post. Boy, the Preds bench thought it was in too. Like they really celebrated. Brock Besser completes the hat trick, scoring with six seconds left, sending it to overtime and then the opening minute of overtime, the Vancouver Canucks score. They are down to their third string goalie as well by the Vancouver Canucks. This isn't over and I'm not comparing. - No, that's gonna say they're playing the Preds, you know that, right? - The Preds to the Bruins. But there was a point in the season where, the Preds won a quadrillion games in a row and they do have Ryan O'Reilly. - David Pastrack or her grandma Shell walking through that door in Nashville. - No, Roman Yossi is though. - Yeah, no, like he was herds. - The defenseman also, like he affects the game, but he's not like scoring against you. - Yeah, no, he is, but you know. (laughing) - Better tackle by me. - You see, Sarah, I was pretty good too. Like, you know, like the goalie is good. Yeah, it's just, I'm saying, if you're down to the third string goalie, it's like Philip Forsberg, is it like a nice player? - I see, you're saying, okay. It's not like that high-end, high-octane. - That position in particular. - Yeah, yeah, I mean, there's not to say that it shouldn't be commended, a team winning with their third string goalie. That's commendable in and of itself. But let me put it this way, if it was, oh, I don't know, the Oilers, or the Golden Knights, or, you know, the Jets, for that matter, or the Avalanche for that matter. - We can talk about Connor Hellabot. - Yeah, kind of any other team, actually, now that I think about it other than the Kings. - I will say, though, that the way the Oilers won yesterday as well. - Impressive. - Getting outplayed badly by a desperate Kings hockey team that wasn't interested in going down three games to one in the series, understanding that that's not a death nail. Even 3-0 in Stanley Cup playoff action isn't, right? It's the one sport where you can point to multiple examples of teams coming back from that. But you don't want to do it. So you put your best foot forward in those pivotal game fours, and the Kings do that, despite the fact that they're much worse, just like there's no debate about the talent level between them, or comparing it between them and the Oilers. And they outshoot the Oilers by a factor of two to one, and it takes a Stuart Skinner incredible performance to win them a hockey game. It's incredible that the Canucks are down to their third-string goalie and down two goals with three minutes to go in the hockey game and tie it up and win an overtime. Like, a day after the Maple Leafs did what they did on Saturday. And it's just like, again, a reminder, it's so funny, you know, we have interactions with non-sports people in this building talking about sports, usually on our way out of the building. >> Yeah, sometimes. >> Can't wait for the Leafs to bow out in the first round and the Canucks and the Oilers to move on, and then them have the conversation about, well, you're picked, like, no, there's nothing more painful, I don't think, for Leaf fans than to watch what's happened to the Oilers and the Canucks in the last day. I will be going double Vincent Van Gogh in this building, if that happens, I'll just cut my ears off. I don't want to hear any of that garbage from these non-sports people. There's nothing I hate more in the world. I would, yeah, Canucks, I feel differently about they could get out of here anytime soon. I'd like the Oilers to get as close as possible and then have their heart ripped out. I think personally, for me, that would be good. Like, I don't want them to, like, immediate pain. I want, you know, the buildup of hope and anticipation. And then having their knees cut out from them, but yeah. The, and I think the other part of it as well is, not the Brock Besser is an unimportant part of that team, but we look at him in the pecking order. It's not Elias Pedersen who did that. And that's kind of their ostomathes. It's not even JT Miller. And again, like, you know, we can quibble Besser Miller, whatever, but like Miller is a heart and soul guy. It's not him who did it. It's Brock Besser. That's kind of their, their William Nylander. I know that's not a fair comparison because William Nylander's an infinitely better player than Brock Besser, but it's not depth, but fringy depth scoring coming through for the Canucks. A top six guy, but not one of the true pillars of their org there. And then it's their sexy deadline ad who the team hates, I guess, 'cause they tried to trade him getting it done in overtime in Lindholm. Yeah, that's, that is so frustrating to see. But you also can't sit here. The Lisa done that a million times. It's not when they've been up in the series. Their move is more when they're down. Right. Like, obviously if the Leafs win that game and if the series is tied as opposed to a two, three, one, going back to Boston, you feel differently about it. But what conversation will be happening? Oh, you cannot sit here and play 20 minutes, or if it was the Canucks, you say, you can't sit here and play in three minutes of a hockey game and expect to win a series. We've seen that movie from the Leafs before and guess what? It's been predictive of nothing. I will say that they had one against the lightning, though, in that first round series. That's true. And what did that baguette? Oh, series win. But then eventually it smoked in the mouth. Well, we'll see. I mean, maybe the Canucks, maybe this is all for none. Like maybe they even lose the series. But it does feel like when you have a moment like that and God takes me back to game four of the Columbus series where, I mean, the Blue Jackets hit the side of the net on an empty net as well. And Maple Leafs came back and scored and sent it to overtime. And Austin Matthews scored an overtime. And it was just a matter of time before the real Maple Leafs showed up against the Columbus freaking Blue Jackets. That didn't happen. Yeah, and then gave five. They're like, we should put in a nice cold entree as John's. [LAUGHS] But anyways, they didn't score enough. They got some good goalies, but like, come on, yeah, whatever. Let's get real. It does, like, in the moment, it's like, oh, well, that's it. That's the sign. That's-- everybody needs this one moment. It's destiny. That's the moment we're all going to look back on and say it was-- that's when you knew the sporting gods were shining on you. Yeah, you can't say that definitively. No, you can't. The Leafs have tried every single way. They were the front runners against Montreal, where they're having victory snatch from-- they're having their victory snatch from defeat with the overtime losses time and time again in that series. Fair what it was. It was like 11 to 2. They outshot the Canadians. And one of those, one of them, I think, was 9 to 1. It was the first shot that went in. Boy, wasn't that fun. They've done it that way, where they've been the better team and then completely fallen apart. They've done the Blue Jackets thing, where they fell asleep for the first three games of-- or I guess it was five game series. First two and a half games of a series and then charged back in game four. I think the problem is-- and this is the beautiful part about being where the Canucks are at in their window or cycle, whatever you want to call it-- is that you can't believe. There is not immense scar tissue built up around that. You can see that and close your eyes and say, maybe this is the start of an amazing run because there isn't the built-in scar tissue in memory of, but we all know it's all for not. And that's the thing with the Leafs. They've tried it every single way. They've came charging back against the lightning. They've taken leads. They've been battling against Boston. Morgan Riley had the chance on Easter Sunday. There's been so many moments. It's been come from behind. It's been front-runners. It's been a hard-fought series back and forth. And it just always ends the exact same way. And that's why with Canucks fans, you can sit there and-- I mean, part of it's that they're up 3-1 in the series as well, but you can sit there and dream, for sure. What the Leafs haven't done is they've had the better. Finally, the better goal-tending performance in a series is Ilya Samsonov out-performed on Rivas Alefsky, but they haven't had the otherworldly goal-tending run. Jeremy Swamin leading all postseason goal-tenders naturally with a 9.56 save percentage. Ilya Samsonov-- OK, well, he hasn't cost the Leafs this series. He's got an 8.85, 8.83 save percentage. She still has actually put him ahead of Sir Cape Obrovsky in his 8.74. And how's that team doing? And now ahead of Connor Hellebach, who's got an 8.70. And yeah, it was like, oh, game one, they want it. And that's just a guy getting his feet wet. He's not been good. And yeah, the Avalanche have a lot of scoring talent, but the whole reason to believe in the Jets. The whole reason they're here is because of that, dude. And he's about to win the Vesna. And here he is having one of the worst postseason performances. Yeah, you're allowed to-- Well, the good thing is, though, is he's not about to turn 31. He's just starting an extension. Yeah, he's going to win the Vesna. No, no, I don't. It's not like he's falling off a cliff. But I get like-- Would you hazard a guess that it's possible that not Connor Hellebach won have better seasons after this one? Yeah, I think it's a very reasonable take. Not a surprise. Also, the Rangers swept away. The Capitals and Alex Ovechkin went pointless in the entire series. I mean, that was the most obvious mismatch of all the postseason series. Anything else from the Stanley Cup playoffs yesterday? The Oilers thing, I know we did touch on it a little bit. And kudos to them. They get the good effort from Skinner. But that team-- and I'm not taking anything away from the Kings here, but I think we all think the Oilers are a better team than the Kings. That team being able to muster as few shots as they were in that game. And again, two things can be true. Tip your hat to the Kings. Good job by them. But we talk about high-octane offense. I mean, Connor McDavid and Leon Dreyseidel alone should combine for 14-shot attempts at the very least. That's what they had in not them. That's what the Oilers had in the game last night. That's jarring to see. But you pick up a win like that where you feel like you're running out of the bank because you stole it. It only bodes well for you in the series. And they're allowed to win games. You are allowed. And the other-- the last thing on that for me is just we're going to do a referendum, again, as soon as Wednesday about how the Leafs season played out and what happened here and, yeah, would they have fared better against the Capitals? Yeah, would they have fared better against the Kings? Maybe. Oh, yeah, I'm not sure about that. But the idea that Boston is this world beater. Swamans good. They have good players on this team. But this is not running into Tampa of years past. This is not even running into the Cats last year. Now, watch Boston going to run into the Cup Final. I mean, I feel differently about it. But I would like to be on the record now that I don't feel like that Boston team is unbeatable. And Swamans, the numbers have been incredible for him. He's had moments where you go, oh, you're not going to be able to beat him. But I don't know that he has had the 60 minutes where he just feels completely unflappable. It's been more how anemic you've been as opposed to him being truly transcendent. And he's been good. I'm not taking anything away from him. Before we get to the wake of our-- OK, I did want to pay off the T's. Yes, yes. Joel and Bead get upset at sixers fans. Not specifically sixers fans, I suppose. It's, however, the Knicks fans got in the building in Philadelphia, and there were a lot of them, as they find themselves down three games to one against the Knicks team that stole Game 2. And then Joel and Bead had no field goals made in the fourth quarter. And they're now down three games to one. Here's Joel and Bead in regards to so many Knicks fans being in the building in Philadelphia yesterday. Disappointing. We love our fans. Thank you so much for watching it. And I'm not calling them up, but it is disappointing. Obviously, you got a lot of these fans, and they're down the road, they've never seen it. And I've been here for 10 years. Yeah, you know, it kind of pisses me off, especially because surely it's considered a sports style. So, you know, they've always shown up, and I don't think that should happen. Yeah, it's not okay. - Okay, I get it. Like, what are you supposed to do? And it's probably infuriating. And yeah, there's an emotion in your tone there. But yeah, like, the all, if I'm a Philly fan, all I hear is it's like, this is supposed to be a sports down. You're like, oh, excuse me? Yeah. - Oh, pardon me. - Oh, the MVP who's never once played a single game in a conference final. And you're, yeah, you said you love sixers fans, you love Philly fans, but in the same breath, you're talking about how it doesn't feel like a sports down when half of your crowd is filled with the opposition fans who are two hours away. - Yeah, it's pretty, pretty tough to be like, I thought Philly fans cared. I don't know that you could pick a market that you like obviously inside, it's vitriol, it's hatred. It's like, yeah, that's just how they live. I'm not even gonna go there. People who like pick the market that hates Philly the most, Pittsburgh, even they go, you can't say that about Philly fans. They're too good. They're too loyal. They care too much. This is playoffs. I loathe the idea of, I hate it when we see this a lot with like the Sun Belt NHL teams of, we're gonna make sure no Canadian fans come in our rink. Grow up, grow up. If you're so, if you're such a good team, you have such great fan base, keep 'em out the building. And guess what, Knicks fans, much like Leaf fans, they're gonna travel if they care. So what happens when you play a blue blood franchise? You are one too, but guess what? When the Leafs played, I mean, the bubble series doesn't count because for some reason we allowed Canadians fans in when we were only allowed like 5,000 people in the building, whatever, but when the habs and Leafs play each other in the playoffs, guess what happens? There's even not in the playoffs, just Saturday night. There's lots of commingling because it's two blue blood franchises. This is what happens, grow up, stop complaining. - Yeah, that's a rough one. - I wish we had gloves so we could throw them. - Yeah. - I could feel in that moment the Phillies fans changing their double A batteries to D's. They're like, what are you doing there? - I actually, just car batteries. - Yeah. (screams) - All right, time now for the waken rake presented by Sports Interaction, your homegrown sports book, 19 plus bet responsibly. All right, Blue Jays and Royals again. Wrapping up their season series this time at Roger's Center is Yeriel Rodriguez on the hill against an opener for the Royals. And the Blue Jays are favored minus 149. The Royals are plus 125. The total eight and a half for a Blue Jays team that has in 20 consecutive games, not scored more than five runs. - Under, why would you set the line that way? Thank you Sports Interaction. Yeah, let's take the under. Let's make a little money tonight. - Yeah, until further notice, it's impossible not to blindly just take every under in every Blue Jays game. And the under pan better than the over as well at even odds plus 100, the over is minus 120. - Line's almost too good. Does make me think. - Like, what's happening? - Under, under, under. All right, that was the waken rake presented by Sports Interaction, your homegrown sports book, 19 plus bet responsibly. When we come back, Mike Fuda, former NHL executive, joins us to hash out what's going on with a Maple Leafs team that had an embarrassing 40 minutes on Saturday in a game that they should have been desperate to win. That's next, as the fan morning show continues, Ben Anis, Brent Gunning, Sportsnet 590, the fan.
