Radio Miraya
2723: DEMOCRACY IN ACTION: The Role of Local Governance in the Democratic System
[Music] Democracy in action. A program on how state functions. Featuring in-depth discussions with experts on governance, politics and decision-making. [Music] Tune in as every week we explore the complexities of governance. What is democracy? What is your role as a citizen? [Music] All these and more in Democracy in Action. Thursday at 9 a.m. with a repeat at 9 p.m. the same day, stay informed and engage with democracy in action. Radio me right. The voice of peace. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] Hello and welcome to Democracy in Action with me, Sanyamat, and we're coming to life from Gubadis Saasdi. And today our discussion is going to be focused on the role of local governance in a democratic system and taking the example of our country, South Sudan. And our guests are already seated with me here in the studio. And they will be telling us what are the general guiding principles of local government and also explaining to us into details how does it function in a democratic system. These are some of the issues we are going to be discussing here. And our lines will be open to you. So I can call on 091-206-2079 or 092-9686-297. Those are all our lines or you can also send us your question to our SMS number 091-217-141. Those are all our lines you can get in touch with us here and talk to my three guests who are already with me here and let me take this chance to welcome them. Honorable Martin Simon, who is the Director General, State Ministry of Local Government and Law Enforcement, Central Victoria, and welcome to Red Mirai. Thank you for having me here. And also I have Joanna Rachel, Michael Robatto, who is the Teaching Assistant in the Department of Political Science, University of Juba. Welcome to Red Mirai Joanna. Thank you for having me. And I also have Lasen Asagaya, Civil Affairs Officer, Juba Field Office, Lasen, you are most welcome to Red Mirai. Yeah, thank you very much, Martin. Thank you for having me on your platform. Okay, let's begin with the DG from the State Ministry of Local Government, Law Enforcement of Central Victoria. First of all, could you tell us where you sit when we hear about local governance? Could you explain to our audience what does it mean? In a democratic setup. Okay, thank you, Brother Simon Martin. The local government system is the third level of the government, the Republic of South Sudan. Now, for example, in South Sudan, we have the national level of the government. We have the state level, then the third level of the local government. The local government is actually, the guiding principles is that it is a government that is formed at an autonomous character in a given area, and it is actually appalled to the principles of self-governance, democracy, participation in the rule of the area, then the rule of law. In actual functions with the devolved powers by the national and state government, the devolved powers are not just delegated. It's a power that cannot be amended or reviewed or changed without review of the local government. Local government is a function with, according to our case now, we have the local government act 2009. That is the actual for us, it's like a constitution of the local government act where the powers, the functions, the responsibilities of the local government, cancels are clearly stipulated. It's actually a decentralized system of the governance. So, that is what is happening right now in the country, right? Yes. Okay, Jordan, let's find out from you. What is the role of women and the youth in this local governance system as a teaching assistant in political science, University of Juba? Communities, youth and women play a key role in communities and they make up the communities. So, the role that they have to play is really huge, and one of them is representation. The youth and women bring in voices of the communities. These are unique experiences and their needs, and in the local government, we need to hear what they have to say in order to make decisions. So, the women and youth play that role. Capacity building, we have community capacity strengthening programs for women and youth, and these empowerment programs help the youth and women to build their leadership, and this can also be future leadership for the country. So, if it is built at the community level, it's very important. The women and the youth also play the role of advocacy for marginalized groups. As you know, there are issues such as gender inequality, there are issues such as youth and employment, and when these youth and women advocate for these issues, then they are put on the table and they are discussed. They also play a role of community engagement. Their youth and the women play a key role of mobilizing communities, and you know that they have agency. They bring people together. So, this is very key for them, as they encourage, they first start dialogue, they encourage people to come and participate in community engagement, and also they also play a role in future-oriented leadership. They promote policies that promote environmental conservation. They look at the future, because as women, we look at our children, and as young people, we look at our future. So, their voices, they bring to the table at the local government system, is very key. So, that's what I can share. Okay, yes, last on Civil Affairs is so much engaged in so many activities. For example, here at Dubafield level, Central Dakota State, how is Civil Affairs supporting the local governance system here? More special, how do you work in collaboration? Take, for example, the Ministry of Local Government and Law Enforcement against Central Dakota State. How do you support them? Yeah, thank you very much, Martin, for that question. Firstly, I want to say that the local government is a key partner. You know, Civil Affairs is principally about local governance. We work with the sub-national structure of the government. So, Ministry of Local Government is a key partner, and all the local governance structures and settings. Now, with regards to some of the activities, we have been able to carry out, to support local governance institutions. We have had a number of them. For example, I think in 2019 or 2020, we had a training for chiefs in all the six counties on the local government act, because it thought it was important to build your capacity and to raise awareness on the local government act, and on conflict management skills, too, as well. We have also been able to conduct a forum for the county commissioners and executive administrators on conflict management strategies and how they can improve civil military relations, because if you are talking about local governance, equally need to look at this aspect of how civilians relate with the military in these communities. We also have conducted a forum on the governance and citizens forum, where we're able to bring together our state ministers, the county commissioners and advisors to discuss the governor's vision on local governance and state affairs. So, that's in a nutshell how we have been able to support local governance institutions in South Sudan in a most particularly in an area of responsibility. Thank you. Okay, and still with all the efforts we have done, training the chiefs from all the six counties of central go to the state and also bringing in the ministers and this kind of civil military relationship in central go to the state. Is there any positive impact you have recorded so far based on the effort civil affairs have put in this initiative? Yes, we have had some impact. It is progressive. We cannot say we have had 100% impact, but we have an impact which we can notice progressively by some of the initiatives. Some of these local authorities have been able to take and support with regards to local governance. I think they are more connected to the local population, because it's important to note that local governance is about proximity to the population. I think they are more connected to the population and they are able to address some of their interests. They also work in very close partnership with some of the local peace committees we have been able to form. You know, we formed peace committees some kind of support structure in these local governance settings. So, I think we are making some progress. It's progressive and we time will be able to evaluate better. Okay. Yes, Mr. Martin has the DG, could you explain briefly the current structure of local government in central go to the state? Thank you very much. Before we go to the current structures, just I want to add something to what my colleague Joanna said. You know, the good thing with the local government's act is that the local government allows actually women gives room to women in use to participate. For example, the local government act gives percentage, allocate percentages for the women in use in all the local government, the district of councils. You see, we have a percentage for women in use in these local government. Even in the county land authority also gives room for representation of women in use. Yeah. Even the traditional authority, you see in the past, a woman cannot contest for the chief agency. But these days, the local government allows also when women can contest to become chiefs. Now, as mentioned by Joanna, by doing actually the women in the use can begin to practice politics at the local level to prepare them for greater maybe challenges in future. This is one good important thing. Like she said, because they say the women are looking at the future of their kids and the use are looking for their future. Exactly. Even in the staffing of the local councils. All we have women in use. About our ability of the union and civil affairs, yes, I concave with what we have said, true. We are working together, this is our partners, and they have done all what he has mentioned. Now, coming to the structures of the local government, for example, we have structures for the local government in rural setup, in urban setup. For example, in an urban setup, we have in Juba, the capital of the country, South Sudan, we have city councils. So far now, we have only one city council. That is in the normal city councils in the capitals of the countries. Then we have also municipal councils in the capitals of the states. At the state, we are, they are called municipal councils at the state levels. Then we have town councils. In the headquarters, we are supposed to have town councils in the headquarters of the counties. They have developed areas in the countries. Then we have block councils in Juba city councils, in municipal councils, in even in town councils. The other subunits are called blocks, where blocks council. Then under the blocks council, we have quota councils. That's why this, so the hierarchy is from, for example, in the case of Juba city council, blocks, quota councils. In the states, you find municipal councils, blocks, then quota councils. In town councils, the same, you find town councils, then in quota councils. In rural areas, we have also another structures rural areas. For example, in the rural areas, we have counties, county, in the rural areas. Then we have payam. Payam is another level of the government councils. Then we have boomers. The counties are headed by the commissioners. Payams are headed by the directors, boomers by the executive chiefs. These are the structures in the rural setup. So the same thing with like in the city council, we have mayor. Then when it comes to the same thing in the municipal council, we have mayors. Town councils, we have town class. But in the block, we have block directors, then chair persons of the quota councils. These are the structures of the local government we have. And this all falls under your ministry? Yes. Okay. What, how would you describe the coordination among these branches of government you have mentioned? For example, the city council, the block and the quota. For example, here in Cuba, how is the coordination? Is there an overlap? Okay. Let me tell you something. The minister of local government is in state ministry, but actually works to coordinate the work, make the policies for administration of the local government. And then the office seat because the local government is responsible for staffing of the local councils. For example, in terms of administration officers, the local government continues to make sure that the other line ministers also send their staff to the local council. So we are making, we are like a policy making bodies for the local councils. But the local government actually start with the city council, the city council, municipal council in town council in blocks, then the quota council in the urban setup, then in the river start with the county, Miami and Bommas. But all these things city ministry become like a link between these local government councils and then the leadership of the states. Because the minister of the local government represent the old issues of these local councils at the council of minister's meetings. That means the ministry become a link. For example, if the issues of the other is decided by the state government, it goes down through the minister of the local government. Even we have issues at the local councils also goes to the state leadership through the minister of the local government. Yes. So we are just like a link. Okay. And one first of all has a teaching assistant and the department of political science in the University of Juba. Maybe could you explain to us has a lecture on what some of these instrument or platform that can be used to promote democracy in South Sudan. We want to talk about local governance. Okay. One of them is decentralization of power and you know local governance is about the evolution of power so that communities have a role to play like participation in decision making. So as Honorable talked about these structures, we have these powers or authority given to these communities so that they're able to participate in decision making and they can have control over their own affairs. So the decentralization of power is one of the instruments we can use in local governance to promote democracy. The second is responsive and accountable governance. We see that local governments respond quickly to the needs of communities. And in order for people to come quickly and respond to some of the issues that people face, the local governments play a critical role because of the proximity that they have to these communities. So they are more responsive to the needs. The third one is conflict resolution and peace building. The local governments can be used as a platform for dialogue because they understand the context at which these communities operate. The dynamics of these conflicts. So the local government can be used to foster dialogue among these communities and also reconciliation. We have things like community policy and we can only use the local government as a tool. The other I can share is the capacity building and civic education. We have these structures that can provide education on civic engagement on participation in politics and it's important that we have them at the community level and there's no other place we can have them because people exist at the community. So the local government can also play a key role in ensuring that these communities are empowered in civic engagement. So they use their skills to participate in politics and also decision making. So we can use local governance as a tool for democracy because we see more people participating. We see also the rule of law I talked about community policy. So if we put our resources and support to local governance we'll see that democracy is heavily embraced by the people of South Sudan. Right and lastly you already mentioned about key activities on this civil affairs have conducted red from 2019 like that's why you started from it has been a way long back but now there are so many challenges that the government is facing most especially the minister of local government in central control state and also in some states in terms of addressing the issue of inter-communal violence and if I may ask how is civil affairs supporting the local government here in central control state to address this issue of inter-communal violence. For example here in Turkey we have just had I think last week there was a peace conference in Turkey and we also have a lot of issues in thin delaw and all this kind of thing also in a cagey county of central control state some parts of the area but county and all this how are you supporting the local government in addressing some of these issues of inter-communal conflict issues to do with land related issues also in central control state. Yeah thank you very much Martin you have to an extent started addressing some of addressing part of the question on how we we support local governments in resolving some of the challenges the local institutions face. With issues of conflict for example you talked of Kajukiji we have had a series of programmatic activities and interventions in these areas we have been able first of all to create structures that support peace and conflict resolution we have supported the Payam peace committee formation for example and been able to train some of the members of these Payam peace committees on how they can resolve conflicts in their communities. We also facilitate peace and reconciliation conferences like the one you were talking about in Kajukiji we were very keen and we keep at nice in the peace and reconciliation conference in Kajukiji. So in a nutshell most of our activities are oriented towards supporting these local institutions and enhancing their capacity to be able to address some of the perennial challenges these local institutions face whether it's at the level of inter-communal violence, lunch issues or security, civil affairs supports directly and directly through our engagements these local actors thank you. Okay if you have just joined us right now you're listening to democracy in action my name is Sani Martin and you're coming to your life from Juba and in the studio I have three of my guests and we are discussing the role of local governance in a democratic system and I have Martin Simon who is the director general in the central authoritarian state ministry of local government and law enforcement Juan Rachael Michael Robato who is the teaching assistant in the department of political science University of Juba and Lasson Sagaya civil affairs officer for the United Nations mission in South Sudan Juba field office and our lines will be open to you shortly where you can call on 091-0629 or 091-062950 or you can send us your question to our SMS number 091-2177141 and those are all our lines you can get in touch with us here and yes our lines are now open we do have a couple of SMS coming in here first is coming from Albino a call Marach in western Baragas state wow and he says my question is going to the director general in the state ministry of local government and law enforcement central authoritarian he says sir let me begin by making this comment these local government in all over the state are just there they don't have their mandates are not functioning no power to decide or on any matter like the issue of containing local conflict in their own areas you cannot even a point so in this setup your hand seems to be tight first of all do you have the resources that can enable you to carry out your mandates effectively do you have the power to execute the mandate given to you according to the law these are the two questions coming from Albino a call Marach in wow western Baragas state another SMS here is coming in from Justin in Juba and says I would like to thank and me so much for investing heavily in bringing peace in central authoritarian state we have seen a lot of workshops being conducted here in Juba and also in the county head quarters but he would like to say I would like to ask the civil affairs officer do you think it is now time for you to change the strategy on approaching some of this support you are rendering to central authoritarian government because you have done a lot but still very little effect is being realized in terms of the goals of the multiple workshops conducted in Juba and some parts of central authoritarian state that's from Marl Justin in Juba another SMS here is coming in here from Marliss in a river county central authoritarian state and he says it seems like if some of the chiefs who are under your local government does not have the man does not have power they are being intimidated through so many challenges how can you empower the local chiefs in order to strengthen the rule of law at the local level that's from Marliss in AIA river county going to the director general yes did you have these two questions maybe if i'm beginning to you okay thank you sanny you know the ultimate goal of the local government is the improvement of service delivery in development the local government works well when there is a total peace because currently we have some insecurities in some parts of the country this makes the work of the local government a bit difficult because now so about the powers the functions of the local government councils and their funding in the funding yes it is true one as i mentioned earlier i said when there is peace then the local councils can do everything but currently we are facing the local councils are facing financial constraints that cannot actually help them due to the ongoing financial crisis and what about your budget okay our budget the local government councils functions mostly with the local revenue we are only getting grants be it block or specific grants from the national and state government but the local councils are supposed to generate their own money so for example if you have been some local council the counties their payams where you have maybe people displaced either by the insecurity or displaced by some natural factors disasters so here you cannot imagine a local councils in this given area to generate revenue that's why i said key peace is actually key for establishment to some of our local government councils are not properly established why because of the same obvious reasons i remember i mentioned also something about to do with the peace aim now if there is an insecurity in some areas even the staff because we are getting our staff from the minutes of local government then other line ministries of the state but people sometimes refuse to go to some of these places simply because of the challenges of insecurity that's one thing another thing is lack of actual offices means of transport even the equipment now for example in some local councils like some counties in some areas where there's insecurity you find maybe commissioner it may be the executive director of this county but in reality actual work is supposed to be done by the departments of the counties for example education helps agriculture so the local councils work with this department if you have only in a local council only they head without the department that do the real service delivery then this way sometimes we have a problem so what the question asked by our brother there i know from wow and albino albino is right because currently we have some challenges be it financial even human resource that's why it is like people are not feeling actually the functions of the local councils in their areas but local government for example if we are to establish local government full with all the departments with all the staff and then they begin to implement the rule of law there were people who begin to say oh oh we have a county yes now i can see we have a payam oh yes we have our chief even in the boomer but in some areas these institutions are not properly established that's why people are complaining they said like the local government institution looks like a powerless like a health place cannot help people when in reality they are very powerful institutions only the the certain conditions that are limiting their operations but people if you center go to the state minister local government is crying like this and people have this assumption that central katore state is one of the richest state in terms of revenue collection so what about the rest of the states how will they complete i'm talking about south Sudan local government in south Sudan let's talk about central katore state central katore state it's not exceptional even when it comes to some counties far and areas now the central katore is not just juba at least in juba yes we have set a council and they also doing what they can and is it a city council director under your ministry yes city council is a is a one of the council so the local government they revenue they collect do they remit you or the revenue no they they collect the revenue they use it because that is actually they're according to local government act they don't bring them remit the money to the ministry okay the local councils collect their money then they use it for improvement of savings delivery and development in that a given area okay they have their own challenges in juba city council as a local government councils okay but so when it comes event to the same thing with the chiefs yeah you see we we are planning to empower the chiefs and also that's why we are working with our partners also to help in training of the chiefs to help in training of our councilors of the local councils for example like because we have in a local government councils we have executive energy share wings of the of the government and for example like in the county you find uh councilors of 35 members the same thing in juba city council these ones these represent the legislative organs of the of the council what's happened today i remember you have the former minister honorable maraud nacho he talked already me right before he was removed that uh the broad chiefs is this the one elasan was talking about when chiefs were brought to juba here for a three-month training what happened to that training no we we have conducted several trainings for chiefs and uh in juba and when currently as we speak our partner uh r u m is actually completing uh development of the of the written customary laws and this again will empower the chiefs because we used to have an oral customary laws now it has been formulated put down as a document where chiefs can at least refer when uh judging handling the the cases of our customary nature so what we are saying chiefs yes true what is actually hindering the chief they are saying the chiefs in the past but again remember now the local government is a third level of the government in the past during the centralization during the time of so then the local government was the second level of the government yeah when we are having only the the the ministers at the national level then the local government by then start with the provinces three provinces of wow malachal in jubar the local government was actually the second level of government but now it has been reduced to the third level because we have the national level we have the state level then the local government level does that explain why the the chiefs those days were so powerful exactly to maintain law and order in their localities even the local councils by then for example that what people say you know the local our people like let me say for example in jubar during the time of those of minazio the local council were very powerful but you as these days yeah that's another the powers because some powers have been taken by the the state level of the government some things that which will be done by the local government because now we have been local government to be reduced at the third level of the government yes okay probably this could be some of the reason all right yes uh lots of uh changing of strategies in the way you do your business now so many initiatives by enemies have been done and uh according to this message they recognize your efforts but is there a way you can change it to make sure it works so effective yeah thank you very much martin thank you to uh the listener who posed the question and thank you most especially for appreciating the work we do or the work we have been doing so far in south Sudan well firstly i want to say that we work within a framework we have a mandate and we work within this mandate that's uh our guiding mantle we we cannot go out of the framework of this mandate i i recognize that he wants us to to do more he wants us to to to to to to maybe carry out more activities i recognize that and uh i want to say that firstly the the the major challenge we have or the major challenge of local governance since we are talking about local governance is capacity so so there is a need to continue to build the capacity of this local authorities i think that's the major challenge and we continue to to to work within that uh that frame we need to build your capacities for example on a revenue mobilization how they can raise revenue to be able to manage their communities and we also need to advocate for more participatory governance participatory governance meaning that you have the people more involved in the decision-making processes in these local institutions we also understand that it's important that we continue carrying out advocacy on legislation and the implementation of the legislation with regards to local governance so there are lots of engagements with the government authorities on this especially with regards to legislation that can adequately uh ensure better functioning of local governance institutions in the interest of the people in the in the rural communities okay yes uh john if you uh you have to advise the government or central government let's zero into that on how to navigate through the challenges the director general have mentioned what will be your recommendation to them and how on how to maneuver over these challenges uh as Lawson mentioned participatory governance is very very important and you cannot solve issues without knowing how to solve them and these issues are of the people so they know how to solve them and they always give solutions to these problems so we need to have a listening ear to what communities have to say and be able to give them what they need especially service delivery and and we've seen that uh the issue of service delivery brings a lot of conflict in in our communities so we need to be able to respond to to their needs and also promoting social cohesion local governance plays a key role in ensuring that people are brought together so we have to put more money invest more money in social cohesion and in local governance so that communities can come together and have that kind of reconciliation so the needs are thirsty for reconciliation for peace and we can use our structures to be able to have that reconciliation and peace we also need to have women's participation enhanced because women play a key role in bringing communities together they have a unique voice also so investing in women participation is very important we've seen that when we have women in positions at the local government be local state there is some kind of uh difference that is met so we have to also invest in women's participation justice and rule of law is also important when you don't have justice they is a risk of conflict so people need to be able to have the rule of law and have justice where perpetrators are held accountable for the the different things that they commit the different crimes they commit so it's important the government gives a listening ear to our communities to be able to respond to their needs make sure that everybody is participating especially youth women and marginalized communities because when there is a part of the community that is not listened to there's there will be no peace and also invest heavily in local governance as Reverend Martin mentioned he said that there is a constraint financial constraint so when we invest in our local governance then we'll have a system where the needs of the people who are responded to right because of the interest of our time uh let's begin with the director general concluding our discussion for this week first of all as we conclude uh uh DG what are some of the key activities at the moment are being carried out by your ministry in central control state that can contribute to peace and the stability in central kotore well we are doing a lot of things we have long-term in short-term plans for example currently as we speak we're we are working with uh UNDP rule of law to train uh some chiefs our all the paramon chiefs and head chiefs of central kotore state and uh this training will be conducted in May within maybe probably the second or the third week of this May we already at the planning stage we want to empower the chiefs because uh knowledge is a power and we are also we have uh we are also working to to train to complete training of somebody into officers we actually train the first group we are now left with the second group of about 50 if these ones are trained we will deploy them to all the city councils in all the counties of the state so that they begin to exercise their work there because uh it's very important uh the local government councils actually works with the people at the ground when there's no local government institution in the place people feel like there's no government okay and so what we are doing now want to make sure that uh all the local government uh institutions are properly established in stuff for example like now all the counties should have uh the all the the needed stuff in the department so that they can be able to functions and to give the necessary service leading by the people thank you very much uh yes uh what kind of uh more support can you inform our listeners to uh maybe government of central culture because you work for central country blue barfield office as you come to briefly our time is already up here we'll continue to uh to work in the partnership with the local government to to build the capacities of local authorities and we'll continue to conduct uh and carry out engagements and advocacy with regards setting up legislations that can adequately uh ensure effective local governance i think we'll continue in that uh on that path um of enhancing the capacity of uh local authorities thank you all right yes uh from the academic point of view uh what's your final say and your advice to the local government in central couture and also in south so then was listening to you in some parts of the country my goal would be to minimize political interference because we see when there is a high political interference these structures are not able to work effectively and they should be capacity strengthening for the local authorities so that they're able to understand how they can work with their communities and we also need to invest in these local structures what do they need to function it's important that we also give an ear to these local authorities okay thank you so much uh martin simon director general state minister of local government law enforcement against central couture and uh join uh rashel my call robato teaching assistant in the department of political science universe of juba and they also had a last one as a guy civil affairs officer for the united nation mission is also done juba field office my name is sanny martin thank you so much for listening and stay tuned [Music]