[MUSIC PLAYING] Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you about one of our favorites, Audible. No Audible.com or that lovely app. I love the app, and I love it all. Audible is my favorite. Audible keeps me sane on the road. It is the best. Audible, what it does is let you enjoy all of your audio entertainment in one app. One stop, shop, you'll always find the best of what you love, or something new to discover, because they're putting up new stuff constantly. They offer an incredible selection of audio books across every genre, from bestsellers and new releases to celebrity memoirs, mysteries, thrillers, motivation, wellness, business. I'll tell you one that I am checking out at True Crime when it's very interesting. It's called Chaos by Tom O'Neal. And if you join as an Audible member, you can choose one title a month to keep from the entire catalog, including latest bestsellers, new releases, right to you, no charge. It's beautiful. New members can try Audible free for 30 days. Just visit audible.com/smalltownmurder or text small town murder to 500, 500. That's audible.com/smalltownmurder or text small town murder to 500, 500. Now back to the show. - Okay, it's time to commit. 2024 is the year for prioritizing yourself. Begin your new smile journey with bite, and you could start seeing results in just two to three weeks. Just order your at home impression kit today for only 1495 at bite.com. Bite clear aligners are doctor directed and delivered to your door. Treatment costs thousands less than braces, plus they offer financing options, except eligible insurance, and you can pay with your HSA FSA. Get 80% off your impression kit when you use code WONDRY at bite.com. That's B-Y-T-E.com. Start your confidence journey today with bite. - The comfort of your favorite seat is now your comfy car selling command center. Thanks to Carbona. - It doesn't get any better than this. - Your favorite seats have best spot in the house. Make it even better by entering your license plate or VIN and getting a real offer in minutes. - There really is no place like home. - And speaking of home, Carbona will pick up your car from yours after you finalize your offer. Visit Carbona.com or download the app and sell your car from your comfy place. (upbeat music) - Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Express. - Yeah, cho cho. - Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrogallo. I'm here with my co-host. - I'm Jimmy Wissman. - Thank you folks so much for joining us today. All aboard the murder train, pulling away from the station with some real weird stuff today. - Oh. - Oh, fun, one of those with a clue. I love it. Yeah, when you have like an old timey murder, almost like with a clue in it that you find. I love that sort of things. It makes me feel like I'm playing a board game. So I'm gonna solve this thing. I have the clue here, it is fun stuff. We'll get to all of that. First though, before we get into everything, just want to say head to shut up and give me murder. I've got come right now virtual live show still available. You can still get that, pick that up. Also, you can pick up tickets to regular live shows. May 31st, Durham, North Carolina. - Yes, sir. - Tickets still available. Still a few tickets there, almost gone actually, but the next night Nashville sold out. So get your tickets there. Also, other shows over the course of the year and we have Minneapolis. That is gonna be our biggest show ever, Minneapolis. If you guys sell that bad boy out, it will be our biggest show ever. You will beat Chicago. Can you beat Chicago? Try. - Can you do it? - Can you do it? Maybe you can. You guys are nice up there, let's see. Check those out, also end of the year. Boston and New York are going pretty fast, so you want to get those too. So just a little heads up there. Shut up and give me murder.com. Patreon.com/crimeinsports is where you get all the bonus stuff. $5 a month or above will get you hundreds of back episodes immediately. New episodes every other week. It's the best bargain you're gonna have here. A cup of coffee or all of this stuff. Not gonna find better. And this week, which you're gonna get for crime and sports, which you'll have access to, that bonus. We're gonna talk about the Otani gambling scandal and the basketball gambling scandal and some old gambling scandals that the NFL just swept under the rug like they never happened. So those are a lot of fun. Then for small town murder, it is conspiracy theory rabbit hole time, baby. Let's do it. Let's go down a rabbit hole. A guy wrote a book, he spent decades and pretty much ruined his whole career writing this book. Let's find out, was Charles Manson really a CIA asset that was put up to all of this stuff by the government? We'll find out. And obviously we won't know the answer, but we'll talk about it for sure. - We'll try, yeah. - And some other CIA murder-y things also. Patreon.com/crimeinsports is where you get all of that. And that said, I think it's time everybody. - Oh, yeah. - It's time to take a deep breath here. Let's get into this story 'cause it's wild. Here we go, arms to the sky and let's all shout. ♪ Shut up and give me murder ♪ - Let's do this everyone shall we? Let's go on a trip. Here we go. And again, if you listened earlier in the regular show this week or small town murder, you know that we're both ill. - Yes. - If you hear it, it's there. Obviously, our voices don't sound quite as crisp as they might because we are very sick, but in our minds we're healthy. So we can do this. Just our voices and our respiratory systems aren't terrific at the moment. So let's go to Utah. What do you say? - Okay. - Oh boy, I've been having too much fun lately. Let's go to Utah and get a little too long time. - Yeah, some quiet reflection here. We're going to Price, Utah, Price. It is about two hours to Salt Lake City and about two hours and 35 minutes to Fillmore, Utah, which is our last episode in Utah, episode 441 bashed, slashed, and scattered. That was cool. - Oh my God. - That was a brutal one, yeah. Utah telling you one thing. They might be nice. They might knock on your door with a smile on their face, but man, when murders happen there and they let it all out, it hangs. - Is that where the blood sickles was at too? I think it was. - That's the blood sickles. - Yeah, blood sickles with the dead, have dead right in the snowmobile. That was the guy with the lion back in the day. - Oh my God. - Remember that guy with the explosives in the lion? - Price name is happening. - It's wild. It's all happening in Christ's name. That we do know if it's happening in Utah, but other than that, who knows? - That's my name. - Somebody's name, population here, 8,192. - Okay. - It's a pretty small town, actually. Median household income here much lower than the national average, it's 45,429. So about 25 grand under the national average. Median home price here, $251,900. Also below the national average. So 'cause it's not really commutable to anywhere. - To anything, you gotta be in price. - You're living in price. So that's when you see houses prices really drop when they get out of the commuting range of a big city. - Is it south of Salt Lake? - I think it's north of Salt Lake. I thought it was north of Salt Lake, but I could be wrong for some. No, no, it is south of Salt Lake. - You gotta be, 'cause Salt Lake's already almost to the fucking Idaho. - Well, yeah, you'd have to be in a mountain to be north of, like, sitting atop a mountain, really. So a little bit of history. They think it was named after the LDS Bishop, William Price of Goshen, Utah. - It probably was. - I assume it is. - More than likely. - Any town name you go, is that named after that LDS Bishop that was a guess? Okay, that's what I thought. You're probably right, it's a pretty good guess. - Any town name, is there a Bishop or somebody in the church with this last name? Yes, then probably. - That's probably thought so. That was, he explored this area in about 1869. Price County is the seat of, or Price, Utah, is this county seat of Carbon County. So-- - Is that right? - They hold all the records as we know here. Here's a little story from back in the day that I found pretty amusing. Kayla Baldwin Rhodes and Abraham Powell, they were trappers from Salem, Utah. They were the first recorded settlers in the Price River Valley. - Okay. - They got here in 1867 in October. They built a cabin in the northwest corner of what is now Price, but was then nothing. They returned to Salem when the trapping season was over. They got, they said, "Oh man, this place is great." And people were like, "Oh, well, really, wow." So a whole group, he convinced a group to join them and relocating to the valley. Let's live there permanently. And then they said, "Okay." But Abraham Powell couldn't get back there because he was killed by a bear instead on the way there. - Oh my. - He was like, "Yeah, let's move back." And on the way he was just mauled by a bear. And he never made it back. So-- - Whoops. - Whoops, so one of the guys got back. Reviews of this town, we'll do a couple. Here we go, four stars. Price is a great place to live. There's so many Christmas lights during Christmas. If you want to, you can walk to places. - If you want to. - If you want to. I mean, you don't have to. It's not part of the rules or anything. - There's a very big Christmas-y vibe around here. - Yeah, there's a lot of small tents. It's like a Hallmark. One of those Hallmark rom-coms that they make where it's a Christmas town fucking love fest. - Right, and everybody tries. - That sounds like an orgy. That doesn't sound like one of the movies, but you know what I mean. - A lot of red velvet and-- - Yeah, there's amazingly eight attractive women who all own cupcake shops in the one town. Which is really weird. Four stars here, they are, this is one sentence. They are always quick to get to the scene. - Who? - Who? - Yeah, who? The police, fireman, fucking newspaper. What are we talking about? Who's what scene? - Seeing what? - Yeah, that's terrifying. Then finally, three stars. The restaurants in our area are pretty good. However, our town can use some improvements on the nightlife part. It's a small town in rural Utah. Do you expect hedonism at the nightclub? - What nightlife is there in that proximity to Salt Lake City? - He says, "Coming from Phoenix, Arizona, there were nightclubs." - Yeah, that's a completely different place. That's a metropolis. - There's a hellscape. - Yeah, it's a metropolis. - A lot of spin. - There's four million strip clubs in Phoenix. It's Scottsdale and Glendale and all these different towns. What are you talking about? There were nightclubs available to kids who are 18 and over. Yeah, non-alcoholic places, that, those. If Price had something like that, it would liven up the weekends to a lot of teenagers. How many teenagers can there be? There's only 8,000 people. - Yeah, and then you gotta condense the fucking, all the older people that nightlife for a child is a necessity. - Yeah, we need the kitty night. We need the non-alcoholic nightclub. We need the night, you know, open up Shirley Temple's for me, please. I know we need that. - Ridiculous. - So then she goes on to say her he, "My favorite dishes in the area are from the smaller restaurants who have unique dishes. For example, wingers has their personal, quote, "Creamy, amazing sauce." Oh my God. - Fucking a wingers. - Creamy, amazing sauce does sound unique, like DNA unique, probably. - See, that's one of a billion, man. - Wow, which is unique and delicious. Grogs creates their own personal sandwiches and you cannot find any other sandwiches like that. But if nightlife could improve, then people would have better reviews on food places and nightlife. - Yeah. - Why? 'Cause you're, I don't know what the hell you're talking about. - There's great sandwiches and wingedges. I want more. - I want wingedges and sandwiches. It's all I have here, really. I wanna have those late at night. Is that possible? It seems like that's what they're looking for. A dentist, I think, would satisfy this person. So, things to do in this town, the Price Greek Festival. - Okay. - There's more Greek-- - 8,000 people and some how-- - Greek Fest. - Yes, there's more Greek people here than anybody, any other, like, ethnicity for some reason. So, they say to come out and eat, drink, and dance at the Greek Festival. Oh boy, it's an extraordinary event, of course, that will take place at the historic Assumption Greek Orthodox Church. - Yeah, bring your hairy soldiers. - Oh, it's party. - Wow, bring your hairy shoulders and your pension for anal sex and cheese that doesn't melt 'cause we're coming through. Let's do it. - Non-melting cheese. - Non-melting cheese. We had a whole long thing about that on your stupid opinions. So, many folks will enjoy the endless Greek food and pastries that have been prepared by the church's parishioners. One person says, it's just the same as it always has been. We have wonderful people running it and the community volunteering to work the food line. So, if you come through, choose your food and then, at the end, you pay for it. You know, like a cafeteria. - You know, like normal places. - Like a high school cafeteria. You just have a tray and some lady goes $4. And then there is a annual Greek Fest 5K. And they charge $20 for you to do that. So, if you'd like some exercise, it costs $20. - It's $20 to run? - $20 to enter it, yeah. Not to watch it or to participate or sponsor. No, $20 just to put in. So, that said, let's talk about some murder, shall we? Okay, let's do this. We gotta go back in time. We're going, this is fun, 'cause we're going back in time farther than we normally go. - Yeah? - We are. We've been in the 80s a little bit lately. We've had a lot of really modern cases lately. We're going back, this is fun, 'cause it's gonna mix modern technology and modern things with also old timey story here. So, it's kind of interesting. - Tell me, how? - In 1970, we're gonna start it, okay? - Okay, yeah. - Which is farther back, like I said, than we usually go. Now, it is a wild weekend at the area of 400 south and 700 east block of price, okay? - Okay. - Wild area here, we're wild times this night. There's a 10-year-old girl named Lori here, and she's riding her bike in the street right around dusk. It's July, middle of the summer, kid riding their bike in their small town. - Yeah. - There might as well be a flag waving behind her and like bottle rockets going up in the air and a little yellow dog running next to her. - 400 south, 700 east is like, it's almost dead center of downtown. It's seven blocks and four blocks. - Yeah, there's not much of a downtown really though here in price. It's a main street. - Center store, yeah. - Yeah, it's close around there. So, she's riding her bike when out of nowhere, she's grabbed from behind. - Shit. - Somebody grabs her. I mean, this is the ultimate nightmare here. Clay, this person clamps his hand over her mouth. Now, she had a big giant wad of bubble gum in her mouth. And for some reason, when he did this, her immediate instinct was to like spit the gum out, is what she wanted to do. She spit the gum out on against his hand and he like freaked him out for some reason. - Yeah, what is that? - Yeah, like he didn't know if it was her tongue or something. I guess it like went against his hand and then dropped on the ground. And so, like I said, I don't know if he thought, if he thought she like bit her tongue off and spit it out or something. He freaked out and like, let go for half a second. So, she took off. - Oh. - She was like, hello, don't fail me now and took the fuck off. She ran toward a basement apartment that she lived in. And as that happened, he went, he stood there for half a second and then went, oh fuck, I should probably run away. He's just probably running toward someone who's gonna kick the shit out of me now. - Right, yeah, yeah. - This guy starts running away. So, her brother, a friend of the families and her stepfather were home at the time. - Hell yeah. - Which is exactly the people you want home at this time. - Yeah. - And they had seen the bike fall, but they didn't see the attack at first. I guess it was over. They just heard a bike fall and looked over and saw the bike, but they didn't see it was going on there. So, they ran outside and as that happened, they come up just as she's coming in and she's like, I just grabbed me and I spit my gum out and he ran away. So, they started chasing him, all the guys. So, now it's just a run through town, which is pretty exciting. They're gonna beat the shit out of some child molester. This sounds awesome. - Yeah, as a stepdad, like you're earning that little girl's trust forever. - Oh yeah, you're getting a blowjob tonight for mom too. - Yeah, yeah, you chased out a molester and beat the shit out of him. - And you're about to be a better dad than her dad. - Yeah, even her dad's gonna shake your hand. - Yeah. - You know what? - You are a hell of a man, sir. - You know what, Keith, I'm gonna tell you something. At first, at first, we just didn't see eye to eye. You know what I mean? You're a Ford guy, I'm a Chevy guy, you know how it is, but after you've done this, I think we agree on one thing. We both want what's best for that little girl in the shake hands. - I sure hope my pain in the ass ex wife sucks your dick. - I hope she really, she's not. - By the way, spoiler alert, probably not. (laughing) - Bet you didn't even get a blowjob off. - So I'd force her. - Wouldn't expect much out of that, really, probably. - I wouldn't, I wouldn't go holding my breath the two others. - A hold of my breath, 'cause yeah, she never holds hers. (laughing) Not even for like one second, she don't give it no effort. - No, it's a quick tease. And then, right in there, right in there. - She makes a face like she's like, eating like something bad too, like a spoiled piece of turkey or something, while she's doing it, so you gotta contend with that too. It's like a baloney face, I call it. - I washed it, don't worry. - Bit her baloney face, you know, like she just don't want to be there. So, they chase him, he's obviously running away at full speed, and they, it's, I guess it's getting dark, and he ran south, and they lost him. - Really? - So they end up not being, yeah, this guy made a turn somewhere, it's getting dark, and they lose the guy. Now, the guy has a, like a multicolored hat on, everybody says. - Okay, like a tie-dye hat, or just like-- - Nobody has a good description of it, other than a multicolored hat. So, I don't know if it's one of those like, a silly hat, a little propeller on top. - Let's spin off, we're talking about panels of red, blue, and green. - Yeah, yeah, what the fuck is this, what's going on? Or is it some other kind of hat, because it is 1970, so it was like a hippie-ish type of hat, like a puppy, one of those hats that gets more sometimes. - Or is it a tie-dye fucking Rastafarian hat? - Yeah, it could be anything. So, but that's what everybody sees, a multicolored hat. So, the same, later this evening, that was about nine o'clock-ish, 8.30-ish, something like that. Later on this evening, we'll talk about Loretta Jones. Loretta Jones is 23 years old here. She's born September 14th, 1946 here, and she's 23. She's from Utah here. Her parents are like known people, her parents, her dad's name is Parley, Parley Jones, and he's a well-known contractor in the area. So, he lives in Price, too. She's a price-born and bred kind of a girl here. And she is living in a house, only a few blocks from her parents in town. She's a single mom who's living with her three-year-old daughter Heidi at the time. - Sure, sure. - Almost four years old. She comes from a big LDS family, too. She appears to have, from what I can count, about seven or eight siblings. - And there you go. - Yeah, quite a few of them here. She's a member of the LDS church. She went to carbon high school. She attended LDS Business College for a while, as well. - What is that? - I don't know. - Pepsi accounting? - Yeah. (laughing) They show you how to really spike the Mountain Dew Profits, I believe is how it works. (laughing) I think that's what it is, I'm not sure. - Okay. - So she's right now taking correspondence courses for accounting, also, which back then was a big deal 'cause they didn't have online, so you do correspondence. And something like accounting, you can teach someone accounting. - Yeah, it's just numbers. - Yeah, so July 31st, 1970, this is that same night 'cause that was the night of the 30th, the morning of the 31st past midnight. She's seen about 9 p.m., Loretta is, outside, a woman, a neighbor, stopped, and they talk on her front porch for a little while, and then she walks away, this other woman, and Heidi remembers going for ice cream that night with Loretta, this is the daughter, the three-year-old, almost four, got in a car with her, and then also, she remembers from that night standing next to her mom while her mom did some ironing. So, when you're that age, three, almost four, you do have memories, but this, exactly how they are, they're kind of little pockets of memories, flashes. - Yeah, the snapshots. - Yeah, I remember this from this day doing that, that, do you remember two seconds in time? - It's like a vine memory. - Yeah, yeah, it goes very quick in seconds, yeah. - Absolutely. - Only there are no celebrities. - No, it's real. - Just suck. - Just like vine. - Yeah. - So, it works out perfect, so it's actually right. So, that's what she remembers. She also remembers getting up there, then she remembers she was, at some point, went to bed, and then she remembers looking through a peep hole, or the keyhole in her bedroom, you know, like an old-time fashion with the keyhole. She looks through the keyhole in her bedroom, which she can see out into the front room, and she could see something lying on the floor, the next day, or not that next day, that, you know, next morning, I guess, no, I guess it was the next morning, is when she saw that. And she opened the door, and went into the front room, and saw that there was blood everywhere, all over the house, just blood spread. No, she's like three almost four, so I don't think she would even know what that was. She would probably think it was paint before she would think it was blood, I would imagine at that age. - Yeah, yeah. - You'd probably see more paint than blood it for, you know? - Yeah, but if there's that much of it, the smell's in the air, she might, right? I don't know, she might think. - A four-year-old comes out, I smell death. What is she on? - Bloodthirsty. - Is she in Vietnam, I don't think? - Yeah, you got a point. - She's apocalypse now, girls. - Yeah, she knows that shit smells like that. - Yeah, now she knows. She said, "When I opened the door, it was my mom's body. "There was blood, there was a lot of blood, "there was blood everywhere. "She was lying in a pool of blood." - Jesus. - She said, "At that point, I knew she was dead, "and I went outside to go get help." - She knew. - That's pretty remarkable. For a kid who's not even for yet to know what dead is, number one, is pretty-- - To know what the concept of dead. - You write, that idea exists. - Yeah, and that mom could die? Not like mom's hurting, she won't wake up or dead person. And she does, 'cause she walks outside and finds a neighbor boy who's digging up worms to go fishing, and he's 10 years old, and she's walked up to him and said, "I think my mommy's dead." So, and the kid got went, "Holy shit, you know what I mean?" A little girl with blood on her feet going, "I think my mommy's dead." That kid's gonna have nightmares for the rest of his life. You think the shining was terrifying, yeah, fuck that. Have a little four-year-old, and she's a cute little blonde girl too, coming outside with blood on her feet going, "I think my mommy's dead." Ah, you fucking blood footsteps all the way up to you. Oh, dude, you'd run so fast if you saw that. Get on your blanket pedal. So, he ran next door and got his mom, and her name is Sue Ann Horvath. Sounds like Horvath, which is pretty funny. And she, you know, goes and the woman goes up to Heidi and says, "You know, what happened?" And she says, "I think my mommy's dead." She goes, "Well, let's go on and--" - What'd you do? - "Take a look, see, shall we?" So, she looks inside the home through the door, looks in there and sees Loretta's body on the living room floor. - Oh, no. - And there's blood everywhere. She's lying face-down between the couch and the coffee table. So, you can picture any living room where a coffee table is, she's there. She's naked from the waist-down with just a bra on top. So, this woman, holy shit, freaks out, calls the police, obviously. And the Price City Police Chief, Art Poloni responds to the scene, of course. - Absolutely, yeah. - Here comes these guys. They're gonna come in, "Well, we'll solve this." This is under my jurisdiction here. I'm the chief, I'm gonna investigate personally. Trust me that this is not gonna go unanswered in my town. So, he gets there, he observed at the house, other than being covered in blood, is clean and orderly. The windows and the back door were, you know, nothing's been broken, nothing's been jarred, crowbarred. It appears to be no forest entry. And he said, quote, "Nothing had been turned over." So, it didn't look like anybody was looking for jewelry or jewelry, it didn't look like it was tossed, like a burglar either. So, none of that stuff. We'll get into the medical stuff to see if there's a struggle, but fairly large blood stain on the living room couch that she was right next to. The, I guess they have the him, then the sheriff shows up also. Let's get all the people here. Then the county attorney shows up too. - Oh yeah, we gotta have the, what's that guy gotta be there for? - 'Cause he gotta be here, that's why. This is important stuff. The mayor's gonna show it like this is one of those cases. It's a small town and a 23 year old mother's been butchered in her fucking living room and-- - What's, what's campaign? - She's got no pants on also, which in Utah is gonna be even draw a bigger, you know, all hands on deck here, obviously. So, they figure out here the medical examiner identifies two stab wounds in Loretta's chest, 14 stab wounds in her back. - Wow. - And her throat's been cut. This is, this is, kill three times over. - Rage. - Rageful and absolutely horrifying also. I mean, this is bad shit. So, her shorts and her underwear are lying next to her and her underwear appeared to have been cut with a knife. Someone cut her underwear off with a knife, which is horrifying, it's a horror movie shit that someone would do, that's terrifying. - Really cutting any clothes off of somebody is pretty fucked up and scary. - Yeah, it's, psychologically, it'll scar you. But yeah, the-- - It's true. - The legendables, they'll like under part, you know what I mean? - Yeah. - Those are so, so personal. - That's something to do with a horror movie to really amp up the, that's the next one. Then he, what's he gonna do next? Oh my God, you know, if there's a knife down in that area which you don't want right away. - Right, that's a child tearing the wrapper off the Christmas gift. - Man, the fuck, man, too fast. Yeah, unwrap it nicely, you know. - Right, gentle. - That'll tell me a lot of work to put that on there. - Fuck. So, they said that she died by obviously internal bleeding caused by stab wounds in the pulmonary artery, lungs and heart. - Fuck. - They testify also later on in the preliminary deal with the evidence findings that semen is discovered in the vaginal cavity as well. - Sure. - And they say they estimate that it took between five and 20 minutes for her to die like this. - Oh, wait. - Which is terrible, fucking terrible. This is a bad way to die. Now, the daughter never heard any kind of anything. There's no screams, no struggles, no anything like that. Nobody, none of the neighbors heard anything. Nobody heard anything. - But it definitely happened there. - It definitely happened there. And they place the time of death between about 10 and 1 a.m. Now, they have no fucking idea, obviously. Even now, they're like, I mean, it's sort of probably in this to there. So, they still give you three hours. - The last time she saw, yeah. - Between the last time she was seen alive and the time that her child found her, that's when she was murdered. - That's exactly what it was. Yeah, about 10 o'clock and that's what they did. Well, they go by that evidence and they go by temperature and stuff like that. And these things can vary wildly, depending on a lot of factors. So. (upbeat music) - Hey everybody, just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit more about Aura Frames. - Oh, Aura Frames, Aura Frames.com. A-U-R-A Frames.com. - They're the best. It's the best stuff. Looking for the perfect gift to celebrate your mom this year. - Oh yes, it's Mother's Day. - Oh man, Aura Frames are the thing. Beautiful Wi-Fi connected digital picture frames. You can share and display unlimited photos, easy to upload and share photos with the app. And if you're giving Aura as a gift, you can even personalize the frame with preloaded photos. 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There's no safe, like Simply Safe. And now back to the show. - They said that the wounds indicate that the murder weapon was a thin blade at least two inches long. So not a big knife, a small, like a pocket-type knife. You know what I mean? So they said that it had to be sharp, though. The murder weapon, they cannot find it, even though they search all throughout the house surrounding properties. They basically block off this neighborhood and say, "Nobody's fucking in or out. "Everybody's getting talked to go find tooth comb "while the bushes and the grass, "and we're finding this shit." 'Cause I mean, this is a big deal. So they said the weird thing is, is Loretta Jones had barely any defensive wounds, which for this type of attack is extremely strange. 'Cause they said the throat cutting came last. They said that would make sense if the throat cutting came first, but based on the way the wounds bled, it's not how it happened. So they said no one heard any screaming, anything like that. So no defensive wounds and no screaming, which is very strange. - Yeah, so when nothing, the screams, the scream function was not affected when stabbed in the chest in the back. - No, well, I mean, once the lungs are punctured, it wouldn't be very difficult. - There'd be some circles. - It'd be hard to scream at that point, but when she's first being attacked, I would assume they'd be in a scream. - Yeah, there's that. - As soon as you see the knife. - Yeah, when someone maybe would cut your underwear off, you'd probably scream, you know what I mean? That'd be terrifying. So one of the police officers says this much later, quote, "I believe Loretta stayed quiet to protect her child because she was afraid her daughter would run out and get hurt as well." Which, that's some shit that a mother would do too. A mother would go, I'll get stabbed quietly so my kid doesn't get fucked up. Whereas a dad would be like, - Come out here, hide in here. - Come save me. - Bring a knife, bring a bigger knife. - And get your brother and everybody you know. - We dig weapons, hide in here. - Come on now, daddy, buy ice cream, let's go. - You fucking, we don't care at all. So the theory is, obviously, that they think that possibly the person who accosted this 10 year old girl might be the same person who would be a, you know, home invading rapist murder. 'Cause this-- - Yeah, I mean, they're generally good for it. - And they're like, it happened within a couple blocks of each other within an hour of each other more than likely or two hours of each other. It'd be too much of a coincidence that we have a molester pervert and this guy, they'd almost have went and bumped into each other. What are you doing? Well, I'm gonna molest a girl. Oh, I'm gonna go kill a lady and rape her. Okay, well, best of luck to you. - I'm in the molestation. Oh, I'm a little, I'm a step higher. - Beach in the morning for breakfast. We'll compare notes on how our nights went. So they said a search for that man failed to turn up any suspects and then this happens. And now there's an all-points bulletin about a murdering would-be molester. - Yeah. - Dangerous, dangerous, dangerous, basically. Fucking watch out. - And that little girl is so lucky. - Oh, Laurie's lucky as fuck. Yeah, she's really lucky. She had done it around. - She better get, her parents better get her a lifetime supply of bubble tape. - It's gonna say that'd be great if she had like a sponsorship deal after that. Keep your kids safe with juicy fruit. Yeah. (laughing) - If only Big League 2 was invented yet, that would have been great. Fucking amazing. - For the biggest wad you could get in there. - Yeah, there's really poppin' in there. You're not gettin' that with Dentine. - Not gonna say, Dentine. - Bublicious, I think should have sponsored her. Hubba Bubba, one of them was fuckin' around back then, right? - Found a lot of kids dead with Dentine. - Yeah, those, try it out and your kid will die. Very dangerous. Hubba Bubba, walkin' around, doin' fly. - They're comin' home for the dinner. - They're gonna be home by curfew. So the suspects here, they interrogate multiple people here in the area. They round up the perverts. Let's be honest here. 'Cause anytime there's a sexual crime, the first thing the police do, if there's not an obvious suspect that they know of, is round up the local perverts. - Who likes doin' creepy shit on that guy? - Yeah, that's him. Oh, man. One time back when we was in junior high, went to junior high with him. This is how, oh man, is he weird. I'll round him up and talk to him, man. - Run down the DMV list of everybody with vans that doesn't have a business written on the side. - Who isn't selling ice cream actively at this side. So they interrogate four people, and all of these people had alibis between both before the 10 PM, both for the attempted molestation and the alibi for later on in the night past 10 PM. - They only got four weirdos? - They got four, it's a small town. They only had four weirdos that they knew of. Back then, two weirdos were much harder to catch. - Yeah. - They couldn't catch them like doin' weird shit on a computer and bust 'em that way. They'd have to actually catch 'em in the act at doin' somethin', you know, it was different. So that led police to concentrate on that guys she would've known, 'cause the lack of forced entry means they're saying, well, she wouldn't have probably let some stranger in her house past 10 PM. It's just not normal. - With a baby in the house. - With a baby in the house, yeah. So it had to be someone she knew probably. There's also an anonymous phone call tip they get. They get a bunch of them. They lead police to a guy here. A guy, he's 30 years old and he admits to knowing Loretta and he was said he was in price that night and was even in the area where the 10 year old had been accosted as well. - Sir. - But after they asked him a bunch of questions about that, he asked for an attorney and that's that. So they can't, not the more they can do. - Okay, put himself at two crime scenes. - They try to talk to him again the next day. He says, I don't think so, I don't like a lawyer. Then they go, well, how about you just take a lie detector test and clear yourself and he goes, I am not gonna do that, no thanks. - How about no? - Miss when I said lawyer. So they're trying to figure this out here and they said they, because the guy who tried to accost that girl was seen, that's the best bet to concentrate on because someone might have seen this person. So, and also they're gonna talk to Heidi a lot too because she seems to be pretty sharp and lucid for a kid her age. - It's like pretty well, yeah. - So they bring her in and they said, what do you remember? And she said, I remember vividly looking at it, not later, she says vividly not as a three year old. Well, she gotta put a pipe up to her mouth. Well, it was a pink dusk, I'll say that much. The sky was a fire with oranges and reds and purples and it was very lovely. I remember vividly coming down the hall. - Exquisite evening. - Exquisite evening, wonderful, wonderful. Then she told police, they go, well, you know, do you know anybody that was around? And she said, quote, Tom did it. - Oh, well, that's, well, that's helpful. - Yeah, yeah. - That's pretty good. I like that. - That's social on that guy, babe. - Yeah, that's pretty good, you know, his address? - And they said, well, who's Tom? And she goes, I'm the guy, my mom knows a man named Tom. - When do you find him, I'll tell you. - Yeah, I mean, I'd say if that's Tom or not, then they look over the crime scene a lot more 'cause they have a lot of pictures here. They have some weird pictures, by the way. There's pictures later on that they'll have of Loretta for some reason they took cops, cops took pictures of like Heidi standing in the crime scene. - What? - Yeah, like amongst the blood, it's really weird. There's pictures. Yeah. - Put that in an expose or something and sell it? - I don't know what it is, like there was a little girl here too, put, I guess it's like inventory. There's one TV, one radio, a fridge, this, that, a three-year-old, a fucking dead lady. - One female child. - Yeah, one tiny female child, agent determinate, like. - Covered in blood. - There's the inventory, okay. You can take the kid out now. - So in the pictures and on this, in the scene, they find what appears to be right at the end of Loretta's hand in the carpet, it appears to be letters written in blood. - Letters? - Letters, she appears to write. - Oh, no way. - She's trying to write something in blood. - With a slit? - What? - With her fucking fingers, with her last dropping. It took five to 20 minutes to die. So she had a little time here to do this. They find a T, and then overlapping the T a little as an O, and that's all they find. - That's all she had. - Yeah, so either that or-- - That's close to Tom. - She was trying to get to Tonga, maybe, and she's not had a vacation planned. Cancel my plane tickets to Tonga. - She's 66% of the way to Tom. - Or halfway to Toby, we have no idea. - No clue, that's what I mean, so that, you don't know. So two, is what they find, T.O. Then they say, okay, they have her diary, also. So they scour her diary for any mentions of a Tom. Maybe she knows a Tom, and she kept her diary meticulously every day, so if she knew a Tom, she's gonna put a fucking Tom in there, and they find a mention of a Tom, a man she dated for about two months, a few months back. His name is Tom Eglie, E-G-L-E-Y, and they had dated. He's kind of a local shitbag, basically. He's from Helper, Utah, is the name of the place. I guess Heidi said later on, he was set up on a date by some friends with my mom, so he got, it was like a set up. - Mom picked him. - No, some of mom's friends set mom up with him. It was one of those, she didn't just meet him randomly. This was a set up by both mutual friends. - Yeah, Heidi said that. She said my mom did not care for him, though. They never really hit it off. I guess she said that as a child Heidi had met Tom, that's how she knew Tom did it, but she said he wasn't there all the time. He just came a few times, and she knew who it was, and that sort of thing. She said Tom was an acquaintance of my mom. My mom knew him. He was somebody that my mom knew, and then I knew. So he is Thomas Edward Edgley, or Eglie. He's 30 years old. We'll say Edgley, 'cause it sounds worse. He's 30, and at the time, when they wanna go talk to him, they find out he is living at a motel with his pregnant girlfriend. - And a boy. - Real nice, yeah. I'm very pregnant too. She's like eight months fucking pregnant. - Oh my. - So they're like, okay, this is an interesting one here. And he's the guy they talked to that said I was in price. - And didn't want the, and lawyer, that guy? - They had already talked to him because there was anonymous tip about him, and now they find out of a Tom. So they're like, we're talking to you again, and he goes, lawyer, I'd like a lawyer, and no lie detector actually. But what he does admit to, is he said, listen, that day I was in town, I had some drinks, I ate a hamburger, and I went window shopping. You know, how one does? - Yeah, big window shopper. - Big window shopper. They said, well, do you have any alibi? I mean, you must've seen people if you were out and about. He said, no, there's no one that I know of that there was people that I saw that I didn't, I don't know them, so I couldn't tell you who they were. - Oh yeah, I don't like my friends to go with new window shopping, so I'm distracting. - I go to a town by myself, I get a hamburger, and I just shop the windows, that's what I do. That's normal, everyone does that. - We're letting dresses and shit. - You know, while my eight month pregnant girlfriend is in a fucking motel back there, that's what everyone does. So, like I said, he asks for a lawyer, they let him go. So a little while later, they ask him again, and he denies any involvement, and he says, look, this is the last I'm gonna talk to you guys. I'm tired of that, I asked for a lawyer, but I will give you, here's a hat of mine, and a set of clothes, this is the clothes I wore that night. And also, here's three knives that I own. And the cops go, okay, like, you know, he couldn't have had a fourth knife in a different set of clothes. - Yeah. - This is self-reported, the clothes he's wearing. He could have just given him anything. So, they do talk to a bar owner that confirms that she did see him in the bar that night. - Okay. - So the drinks alibi holds, but she said, one weird thing about that, the one thing, he was there that night, very strange. He had red spots all over a shirt. Red spots all over a shirt. That's worse than if he had no alibi, I would say. - Are you gonna go to? - Yeah. - There, but covered in blood. - Now you can go somewhere and be bloody when you're there. - How do you go to a bar, go, well, I mean, maybe they'll think it's the style. - I just need them to see me. - That is fucking, why? I turn it inside out, I guess the blood would seep through. I don't know. - It might have been inside out. - Maybe, well, he showed up, it was the highway rendezvous club. That was the name of the bar, by the way. South of Helper, and she said, pinkish red spots all over his shirt is what the woman there, the bar owner said. She said he was adamant that he needed to find someone who was driving into Helper to get a ride from them. I have to go back to Helper, I have to go right now. That's adamant. However, they said that it was strange because the place he was staying in town, the motel was about three blocks away. So they were like, why does he need a ride? I don't understand why he needs a ride. - Just somewhere so far. - And then he left some time before midnight with another man. So he lived at the new house, which was the name of the motel with his pregnant girlfriend, and they said they go to the pregnant girlfriend. What's up with that? When did he come home? How was he? She said, well, he didn't come home at about three or four AM that night, which was-- - Mine were. - Very unusual, by the way, because he never stays out that late. So that's weird. She said she yelled at him for being home so late when he got home. - Yeah, you do. - So you asshole. - Yeah. - In considerate shithead. I could have got into labor at any time. You don't have a cell phone, what are you doing? She said that he went into the bathroom and took a bath in his clothes. While wearing his clothes. He just-- - Yeah. - Well, I'm gonna get on in the bath and just soaked on in at four o'clock in the morning after being yelled at. - hilarious. - She was like, what the fuck are you doing? And taking a bath, bitch, what do you think I'm doing? - This is-- - What's in my clothes now? - Jesus, yeah, it's a good idea I just had. He then-- - Tons them clothes at the same time. - That's perfect. He then took his clothes off the wet clothes that he bathed in and put them in a bag by the door. - Okay. - Just those clothes. The next morning he got up early, slept for a couple hours and told her he's going to wash his clothes that he just bathed in. - What the fuck is happening? - He asked her, you have any laundry you need me to do? - I'll do yours now too, at four AM. - I'm the wats, darks, whatever. I'm doing low to each. And she said, quote, this was even more unusual than him not coming home till four o'clock in the morning 'cause she said, quote, he never did the laundry, ever. - He's never done it. - Never, it's 1970. He's not doing the fucking laundry. - Yeah. - So he left and went to the laundromat, she said, I thought. That's what he said he was doing. So the thing is, in those days, much of the town had coal furnaces still. - Yeah. - So there were burn barrels scattered all around town used to dispose of shit like that. The ash and stuff like that. So all the leftover furnace ash and the rock and stuff like that. So even though it was summer, the barrels always have smoldering fires in them from people burning trash in them 'cause people just burn trash and the burn barrels all over town. So that morning, across the street from the laundromat, there's a bar and the bar owner saw Thomas Eglie standing by a barrel with smoke coming from it, staring at it, watching something burn. - Yeah, I will talk about that. She asked him like, what are you doing? And he said, fucking, I'm just burning my clothes from last night. - Yeah. - Okay, but that's what he said, that was his answer. So the guy who drove him from Eglie, drove Eglie from Helper to Price the night of the murder there. He remembered Eglie was wearing a colorful hat and a white t-shirt and jeans. - Uh oh. - Colorful hat, not good 'cause that's exactly the outfit that was reported by the little girl and her family. The owner of the rendezvous bar said that he visited twice on the day of the murder when he visited the second time, it was around 11.30, red spots on his shirt and he was acting very nervous. So now the problem is the little girl's kidnapping, the police in Provo just picked somebody up for it. They grabbed somebody who fit the description of this guy. They bring the little girl down and she says that's not him. It's not Thomas Eglie, just some other guy they picked up. So the little girl's description of the man began to resemble Eglie even more after she says no, he's more like this and like that. And they were like, oh, more like this fucking idiot. So August 6, 1970, they do a line up here and a guy named Coolo Fennel is his name, which is a very fun name. - Butthole Fennel. - Butthole Fennel, which is even worse, Fennel that comes from your butthole. I harvest the fennel from my Coolo once a year. It's Coolo harvesting time. (laughing) Ah, the Fennel. - I like butthole Fennel. - Butthole Fennel. Yeah, only your name was Fennel. - Jesus. - So this guy I picked, this is one of the relatives of the little girl sheep, they pick out Thomas Eglie as the guy who tried to kidnap the girl. - Really? - They said, is this the guy? And the guy said, I felt like I was about to throw up. So he is booked for the assault of the girl, Eglie, picking and grabbing Lori, the little girl. So he's considered a suspect in the murder, but they say they don't have enough evidence to book him because they can't find the clothes he was wearing and all that kind of shit, 'cause he burned them. And they don't have a murder weapon or anything like that. So still they have a lot of circumstantial evidence. This is a lot, yeah. So very, very strange. So they do some more interviews with him and they get some FBI reports on some evidence and stuff. And they decide they're gonna go ahead and charge him with this murder, okay? - Okay. September 19th, by the way, he and his girlfriend have a little girl, a baby's born. So, by the way, these kind of sexual attacks and murders and assaults, if you like read "Mind Hunter" and read like how the FBI profilers do this. - It's happened near this. - There's always, number one, the pressure thing. There's a big pressure buildup and there's also a lot of time a lack of able to have sexual release too at this time. So they just go out and fucking turn into-- - There's a lack of sexual release and they know that there's none on the horizon. - Yep. - And there's a lot of pressure on the horizon. It's stressors as well too, causes this. - Just a pressure closer and no coming. - Yep, and they apparently have a lot of giz to give. - Jesus. - He does. A guy named Charles, well, Nelson Kirkwood, he testifies he gave him a ride later on in the preliminary hear him, hearing about the colorful hat and the jeans. And so November 5th here, they've arrested him. He's got a new little girl. By the way, he marries the girlfriend right away. They have the kid, they get married. This is all before he gets arrested. This is very important because now she does not have to testify against him. - That's why he did it. - That's exactly why she didn't want to testify either because this is the father of their brand new newborn baby. So now her saying he took a bath in his clothes, came home late, took the club. None of that's all out. Went to the laundromat. It's just he had red spots on his shirt and the next day he was burning his clothes. That's all we know. Gotta take all that out of the timeline for what the cops are allowed to charge now. - Shit. - She's not gonna testify. So he admits to trying to snatch Laurie off the street. - He admits it. - He admits to that. He admits, yeah, tried to kidnap this girl. So he tried to kidnap, it's almost like he realized, ooh, that's a hard target. That's not a soft target. That's a hard one. People notice when a 10 year old girl goes missing and then every guy in town chases me down the street. Like Ryan Frankenstein, that's bad. - She didn't even get captured and three guys tried to get me. - Yeah, so he said, oh, in a house where I can have control of the scenario, it's a little bit better. But he's not admitting to the murder. He says, I don't know what you're talking about. Didn't have anything to do with the murder. - Wow. - So they have a preliminary hearing and the police chief says that he got there, collected the evidence, blah, blah, blah, photo, they talk about the photographs of the scene. They also talk about information they got from the girlfriend that she gave beforehand. His now wife was current past girlfriend. And that was the only thing that she told the cops was that he told his girlfriend he was going to see Loretta Jones. - Really? - Yes, but he said that that's all that they had out of the thing, but now she can't testify to it. 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Now on digital, that's sleepingdogsmovie.com/wondery. - Carmax is putting peace of mind back in car shopping by putting you in the driver's seat to find a ride that's right for you. Because at Carmax, we believe you shouldn't just settle for a car, you should love your car. That's why every car we sell is Carmax certified quality so you can be sure with upfront pricing that's the same for every customer. So don't settle, find Love at First Drive and start shopping now at Carmax.com. Carmax, the way car buying should be. - So the day of this hearing, Judge Justice County Attorney Dan Keller asked the judge to postpone the hearing for three reasons. Said there's some persons of interest who knew both the suspect and the victim who were recently located in Kansas, we'd like to talk to them. Police have not yet had a chance to speak with them. And second, some anticipated FBI reports had not been completed. And they said also, Poloni, the chief who found the body and did all this, he's unavailable to testify 'cause he's attending law enforcement school in New York. So he's in school. He's in a conference at the moment. So the defense attorney protested the continuance saying that his client's civil rights were violated due to a long incarceration with not even a preliminary hearing. This isn't what I do in trial. Yeah, he said the police went on fishing expeditions concerning the guilt or innocence of his client and that these expeditions have not succeeded. He said if the state had not prepared its case by now, he should release my client. Now, they grant the continuance on the condition that the prosecution file an affidavit detailing its reasons for it. They said, yes, his bail was denied and they set a new hearing date for November 5th. That day, the prosecution says, charge, we're ready to charge him, hand down the thing and the judge should say that there's enough evidence to hold you for trial. That's a preliminary hearing. And the judge says, not enough evidence to hold him for trial. Get gone. Orders him released. Oh my God. Because for kidnapping the girl, attempted kidnapping of a 10 year old girl for obvious sexual purposes. He serves 90 days for that. What? Hold on. 90 days, they give him a month and a half in jail for that. 1970 was a wild time to be alive. You can just try to grab a kid and it was like, well, don't try that again, mister. You're gonna sit down for a little bit. Wow. So the chief commented, this is art poloni. He said that the judge just called it as he saw it and we'll just have to start again from scratch. Oh, Lee. Just bow well. The next, that right after he gets out in January, Thomas Eggley moves to Colorado and just takes off. Yeah, he wants out. So Heidi is adopted by her grandparents. Has to be. Has to be. She said, with all my aunts and uncles becoming my brothers and sisters at that point, they just integrated her into the family. Maybe they told she knew her that they weren't, but that was how it was treated. Yeah, her, her, her, her, she's just as broken as it gets now. Yep, she said that we stopped talking about the murder because it was so hard on my grandparents and then said her grandpa died of a heart attack in 1974. So they, I guess they tried to, the parents tried to keep the cops on the case, but once, once grandpa died, they kind of, she said, quote, once my grandpa died, it was too much for my grandma to even pursue. She was the mourning, the loss of her daughter, then her husband, it was easier for her to just tuck those memories away. So Heidi tries to get her mother's case reopened in 1989 because she saw Unsolved Mysteries and was like, nine, nine, nine years later. That's when it came out Unsolved Mysteries. He's like, she's like, maybe fucking Robert Stack will help me. I have no idea. That's, let's find out. So she said, I had this binder of newspaper clippings, things I got on my own. I was writing to the authorities and I had worked on my mom's case, the had worked on my mom's case, trying to get some answers, but I kept hitting a brick wall and another brick wall. So she moved to Utah or from Utah to California in 1986 and spent 20 years working as a San Jose real estate agent and then came back to Utah in 2006 to be closer to her family, especially her grandmother's getting old. So she said, moving back, stirred up some shit. Now she wanted that, started thinking about it again. And she said she had nightmares as a child, but never flashbacks. And she said she wished she did have flashbacks because then she'd know what the fuck happened. She said, I want, I want to remember more. I want to remember what I can't remember. She wants to see it. 'Cause she said, I might have seen it and blocked it out. - Yeah, I could fix this. - Yeah, 'cause one minute she knew he was there. So she had to have looked out the people and seen that. Or maybe they even might have had interaction in the living room. And then she might have blocked it out till she looked out the next morning and saw her mom's body and kids do that. You know, your brain will do that. So she said, maybe there was something that was buried in my brain that if it came out could help solve the case quicker. Maybe there was something I needed to remember. So yeah, 2009, her car is stolen. - Oh no. - And she posted about it on Facebook and said one of the people who commented was a now carbon county sheriff's office deputy named David Brewer who was an old classmate of hers. He was a friend from high school and so she decided she'd go find him and ask him to look into her mother's murder. Maybe he can do it. So she does. - Don't find my car, find this. - Yeah, find my mom's murder. I bet the guy who killed her took my car too. So she said that she thought that her mom, she thought of her mom as a hero for not screaming or making noises that might've woke her up. She says she believes that her mother closed the bedroom door to protect her and that so she wouldn't come out with him still there, which is probably true. 2010 Brewer here, the deputy, travels to Colorado to interview Thomas Eggley. He's still alive and he denies all involvement. And although he asked, when asked a particular question, check this out, the deputy says, they asked him if we did find the person who murdered Loretta after 40 years of looking for them, what should happen to them? His answer was that that would depend on whether the person that committed any more murder since. I mean, everybody gets one, right? You know what I mean? Then from there, it could be a little more complicated, probably. - What's the severity of this man? - Yeah, I mean, is he an asshole? Is he a nice guy? - Is he mean? - What would he be? - Is he like a guy who likes to wear colorful hats? Maybe. So this guy is intrigued, but doesn't have any evidence here. All he had to go off of was recollection of people and past media coverage. Same shit I have to go on, old newspaper clippings. But there's a strange photograph of Heidi taken at the crime scene of the blood-soaked carpet there. - Yeah. - And he said that picture kind of set me back a little because why are they taking a picture of her where her mom died? She's literally in a bloody crime scene, a fucking three-year-old. But he said this picture is the only crime scene photo we have that still remains because that's the family took that, that picture ended up in the family archives, not the police shit. So the police, probably that shit's been long gone for 40 years, but they still have it and it's in color, which is helpful. - Yeah. - So they said that Egley had lived in many places before and after the murder and that he's never had a stable home life, he's lived with tons of women on and off, married three times, had five kids all spread out all over the place and mostly kept to himself the last bunch of years or so. He's kind of just, he's been called a drifter on and off. So they tracked down his former girlfriend, then wife. That was pregnant the one he lived with at the time. She said, yeah, he did. He took a bath of all his clothes on. Next day he went to the laundromat and when he came back, it was obvious that several items of clothing that he normally has were missing. - Missing. - Missing. So they said, okay, that's very fucking interesting. Her name's Marcia Hidalgo and they also find Barbara Baddison, who's the owner of a bar now and also at the time they talk to her again and also Thomas's former boss 'cause he worked for her for a while. So they said, by the way, he wasn't drunk when he came home and his girlfriend said she asked him where he'd been when he got home before he took a bath. And he said that he had brought hamburgers to a woman and her daughter. So he knew the daughter was there. He knew 'cause he brought that that's how the daughter knew too 'cause I bet he brought hamburgers for him. That's the thing. So I guess that's when he took the clothes and did all that kind of shit. And she said that was really weird. And the Barbara Baddison said that he was using the burn barrel by the laundromat to burn shit when she asked, what are you burning? He said, burning clothes from the night before and also said that he gave police a different set of clothes when they came and searched the hotel room. Why are you telling people this? That's crazy. - I mean, I can tell you why he's dumb. - Holy shit. So then they talked to the girl and her family who was abducted by him or attempted to be abducted. And she told him that the guy wore an odd multicolored hat that he dropped as he attacked her but then ran back and retrieved it and then the family started to chase him. So he almost left his hat. - His favorite hat. - His favorite hat. He had a multicolored welders cap that he wore, okay? So it was like a war at all the time, people said. And they said, okay. And a witness reported seeing a similar hat hanging on a hook by Eggley's door at the hotel. Also before an incident, before the incident, the brother and the friend of the girl that was attacked noticed a man who accosted her sitting on the curb near the Arctic Circle, which was some bar or something, eating a hamburger. They lived just a few doors down from that restaurant and the brother identified Eggley as the attacker that he saw wearing the cap. So later on as well. Then they find out that one of the cops who was there, a price cap police officer, Barry Briner, he said that he told Brewer now, 'cause he's still alive, that before she died, she scrawled letters and blood, the T and the O. Have you looked into that? And this guy said, what the fuck are you talking about? He'd never heard that before, this Brewer guy. He didn't know that. So they said that it was crazy. So they said, holy shit, the letters are clearly legible, but it's hard to reach a collaboration on the point 40 years later, as all the crime scene photos and statements for that time were gone. But they found a family member who had photographed the blood on the floor when they took a picture of Heidi. So for a long time, they were in the family picture album at the grandmother's house, crime scene photos. Yeah, she said, over the years I would look through the family album among these happy photos were pictures of this crime scene. I asked my grandmother to take them out and she finally did. Then years later, I realized that we needed them and she found them again. Wow. Oh, that's it. You can see the picture of her standing there. You can see very clearly the TNO drawn on the carpet behind. That's the only evidence of that that they have is this family photo. So they talked to Tom, he's living in Rocky Ford, Colorado. And they go, yeah, what's up with that? And he goes, oh yeah, price, I remember that. One of my old girlfriends was murdered. I don't remember her name. They were like, okay. They said, well, do you remember what she did on July 30th, 1970? And he said, oh yeah, yeah, I remember a hamburger. He doesn't remember his girlfriend's name. He remembers eating a hamburger on July 30th. How do you remember that? Unless it's very, I mean, you can eat a hamburger if you brought hamburgers to a murder victim and her kid. That's it. So that's 2010. Six years go by. They need to exume Loretta to see if there's any DNA. That's the big thing here. But they can't because they don't want to do it because the grandmother, Loretta's mother's like 90 and she can't handle an exhumation. So they wait till she dies. - Smart, I guess. - Once she dies, they exume Loretta, okay? So the cop here, Brewer said, if there was just a 1% chance that we could find physical evidence, it would be worth the effort. But the body and coffin suffered extensive water damage. - Oh no. - So they could recover zero physical evidence from it whatsoever. So, but they hoped, what they did was on purpose, publicized the exhumation, like they're gonna have all this evidence. Oh, this is what we need. So they didn't say it's a bust. They were like, oh, it's a treasure trove of evidence. They were doing this to try to stir up Eggley to say something to somebody. And he does. He does, a woman named Linda Carter, who knows, who knows them here. The police, she was the one who originally told the police about the written in blood thing. And they were like, for real, holy shit. Then they went and found the photos. And they were like, okay, yeah. So he's a, she's his current neighbor. And she used to know Loretta Jones too. But now in Rocky Ford, they live near each other. Okay, weird. So, okay, this is fucking crazy. She's been chatting with him and hinting that the police found some good information to try to get something out of him. The police, she offers to wear a wire and talk to him about this. - She is ballsy. - Oh, she's super ball. He's an old, just crappy man at this point too. So during this, he said, oh, that's interesting. They're exhuming her and all that. He said, do you know how long DNA evidence and semen lasts? Seaman's forever, my friend. - Yeah, until you swallow it? I don't know. - Yeah. Not diamond, semen is forever. So then the neighbor convinced him that he should confess to the police. - Yeah, if you've got those questions, those are incriminating questions. - He said he used to date her and he stabbed her because he was angry at her for refusing sex with him. That's what he told Linda Carter. He said, it gets worse, man. He said after he stabbed her, she fell on the floor and then he had sex with her and then he slit her throat. He stabbed her 16 fucking times and then had sex with her. Then fucking raped a dying woman. That's disgusting. He then said he tossed the knife that he used in the river behind the Price Hotel and burned all of his clothes. So she said, you got to tell the cops. You got to tell the cops. There's, you know, the family, blah, blah, blah. He does it. He goes in and confesses. - Wow. - Yep, he said he slit her throat. He said, quote, I was there for sex. He showed, that's, he went out looking for sex that night. I'll go to the bar, look for sex. I'll kidnap a kid and have sex with her. I'll fucking do it. - Go see my ex. - Go see my ex. See if I can get it there. That's what he was doing. He said, I was turned down for sex. It made me feel like shit. She went to the kitchen or something after that and when she came back, I stabbed her in the living room. She fell in front of the couch and he said, she was still alive when I had sex with her. He said, then he cut her throat and he fucking left. That was the end of it. Then he went and did all those things that everybody said he did. So they agreed to, if he pleads guilty to murder, that they'll drop the rape charge on him. - Okay. - So they asked Heidi, what was it like to see him finally in court? This the boogeyman of all these fucking years. And she said, he just looked like an old man, an old frail man. - It's not the same. - Yep, she said I remember standing out in the hallway and I told Brewer that he wasn't the boogeyman and I thought he was and Brewer said, quote, even the boogeyman gets old. - Truth. - It's a fact. - It's been 40 years. - It's been 40 years. - He was 30 then and he's 69 years old now. - Jesus. - So Heidi, during sentencing, says in court, I was in shock, terrified and all alone. That day changed my life forever. Tom Eglie is a poor excuse for a human being and I hope his life will be lonely and a living hell. She said, my mom was my hero that terrible night. She never screamed or made a sound. She did everything she had to to prevent me from coming out of my room. How does that make you feel Tom Eglie, knowing that you left a four year old little girl all alone in the next room to find her mother's bloody and lifeless body? My hope for Tom Eglie is for him to be sentenced for the rest of his life in prison. I hope that he will take his last and final breath behind prison bars all alone, not holding the hand of a loved one. If Tom is ever eligible for parole, I'll be at the parole hearing to make sure he never walks as a free man again. From this day forward, this will be a happy day for getting justice for my mom. So, yeah, they said, what about you, Tom? You got anything to say for yourself? - Yeah. - He doesn't speak himself, but has his lawyer read a statement. - Read this, please. - And it says, I didn't know that the daughter was there. I'm sorry she had to find her mother like that. I'm terribly sorry. And the lawyer also says that Tom says he doesn't now remember many of the details of the crime, even though he just confessed to them six months ago. So, the judge says, you, sir, may fuck off at least 10 years in prison and up to life. He's 69, so, yeah. He's pissed off about it. Tom says-- - Really? - They asked him, he said, quote, I'm not really satisfied 'cause he wants to be, he wants a closer prison to his family so people can visit him. - Tough shit. - Yeah, the guy said, well, you can appeal it, other than that, go fuck yourself. The daughter Heidi was upset. She said, I was really hoping that he would have turned and told me he was sorry for killing my mommy. That's what I was really hoping for. But he didn't, he never did any of that. - You don't keep that out of that guy. - Yep, he said that he wasn't mad. She said she wasn't mad at the cops. They did what they could do at the time and that was just kind of how things were at the time. If there was DNA, it would have been a lot easier. - Sure. - She said, I want to be in his face as much as possible to remind him of what he did to my mom and why he's sitting, where he's sitting. It's to remind him. I was a four year old little girl when he did what he did to my mom and she was a human being. So yeah, pretty impressive. He tries to appeal this thing, by the way. He tries to appeal this thing on the case of entrapment, saying that there was entrapment for that woman to get that out of him. And also saying that his confession wasn't taken correctly. So, you know, they said, get the fuck out of here. You're, listen old man, 2017, they come to his house with a bloodhound team to sniff. - Why? - This case is closed, it's not about this. This is about his home being five minutes from Rocky Ford High School, which 35 years ago, in 1982, November 1st, 1982, two students, Victoria Sanchez and Yvonne Mestis, left school and were never seen again. - Oh no. - Yeah. So they said they declined to say anything further, but they're searching his house for forensic evidence. Yeah, that's not good at all. So these were a 15 year old and a 14 year old were kidnapped right by his fucking house. So they're like, let's talk about that. - Probably him. - Probably him. So possibly an even bigger scumbag than we thought. - God. - Written out in blood. That's what did it. It was the blood that got him to confess. He was like, oh shit, the blood didn't all that. It made him freak him out. - She got T.O. - T.O baby, not bad. So there you go. That's price Utah everybody. - Unbelievable. - Fucking crazy case that took 40, something years to sell, 46 years to get him to confess to it, which is amazing. But that's what I mean. It was an old timey crime that kind of mixed new school shit where he was afraid of DNA evidence that he didn't know existed back then. So it's wild stuff. - He had to have done much, much more, right? - Oh, in one night, if he was gonna kidnap and rape and kill a fucking 10 year old and then did this in someone's house, he's capable of anything. I would, he has five kids. I'd look, every fucking time one of his kids were born, look anywhere around him forever. - Where he was at, yeah. - Every single fucking one of those times I would do. So anyway, I'm not, I don't know, someone can check that out. I'm sure that has more resources than us for it, but yeah, I got on that Utah lawn for us. - Utah and Colorado. - I can't be the only one to think of that. So, I mean, I'm sure I'm not. I'm sure they thought of it. I hope so anyway. So if you like that, leave a review. A nice, let's say something good about us on whatever app you're listening on. Also, tell your friends, follow on social media. We are @shutupandgivememurder or that's the website, shutupandgivememurder.com. Social media, we're @smaltoutmurder on Instagram. That's @smaltownpod on Facebook @murdersmal on Twitter. Check those out, head over to patreon.com/crimeinsports and you can hear all the bonus material. Anybody, $5 a month or above, you're gonna get all sorts of hundreds of back episodes. New ones every other week, one crime in sports, one small town murder this week. Crime in sports, the Otani gambling disaster that they just swept under the rug and some other gambling things from years past that aren't Pete Rose. Exactly Pete Rose, the first guy that's ever happened to and they were surprised. - And only. - Yeah, talk about many, many more, especially in the NFL. Talk about that, for small town murder, it's conspiracy theory, Rabel. Time baby. - Let's do it. - It's Charles Manson, a CIA asset that committed those murders at the behest of the government to discredit the hippies or whatever the fuck. We'll talk all about it and we'll go down that rabbit hole hard. A guy wrote a whole book about it and it is crazy shit. That is patreon.com/crimeinsports. Crime in sports is the name of our other show that you should be listening to as well as your stupid opinions, which is fucking hilarious. Listen to that goddamn shit. Check these shows out. 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