[MUSIC] >> Day and morning to a 4.5-9 in the fan, Ben and his brain getting. I think what Gord Stelik said earlier is worth repeating here. So that was a game seven loss, which is familiar. >> Yeah. >> Even a game seven overtime loss. And comparing this one to 2013 is the Fool's Aaron. Cuz only one guy's carried over from that team that's Morgan Riley. This is a different team, 2013. But if you're gonna look at 18-19, game seven, yeah, they were in it. They didn't throw up all over themselves in game seven. So if your deal is well, and I guess John Tavares and Sheldon Keith would say this. Hey, we didn't fold up our tents after games three and four. Correct, they didn't, there's no, hey, we're not criticizing the effort level. And like that the change in the way you approach the games and games five and six and even game seven, you're right, you were right in it. Who cares, like it's not, that's all we're talking about. So you didn't score enough goals, you scored goals all season long. You were capable of putting the puck in the back of the net, no matter who you were facing in goal. This team is predicated, it's built, it only succeeds when you score. You couldn't do it, you haven't done it for two straight post seasons. And really it's the through line across all eight post seasons of the Austin Matthews era is that the goal scoring that exists during the regular season is not transferable to the post season. So it's not like some, I'm not even going to have a conversation, but like the moral failing of this team are like not enough effort, it has nothing to do with that. Don't bring that up, you didn't score. The way you score is not the way you score in the post season. The way you score in the regular season does not work in the post season end of sentence period exclamation point. There's no other takeaway to have. >> I don't disagree. I have to ask you a question though. There is a lot of referendum coming out of the Panther series. And I guess it wasn't a referendum because referendums, you have like a definitive answer afterwards. >> Yeah, you have a referendum. There seems to be dueling camps of how good Babrowski was in that series of wow, the Leafs got quality. They didn't. Now, I don't think the Leafs were so undeniable that this was again, I gotta get a new reference, but this wasn't J.S. Jager from Jeremy Swamin, but he was pretty close to undeniable at parts in this series as well. Like how much, again, this is not to say that the Leafs stars shouldn't have found a way. Of course they should, but how much if we're doing blame pie, I guess it's credit pie, if you're going to give some of it to Swamin. Like how much of that was Jeremy Swamin? >> He was very good and is very good. And I think is headed towards a Vesna at some point in his career. And certainly part of that is also the ecosystem that he lives in in Boston with his Bruins team. I want to say 1% though. >> Because it's not, there's like even going back to the carry price, making the run all the way to the cup final. Just watch the games, I mean, how many $10, again, like one for 21 on the power player, a couple of moments. This is not Dominic Hasek doing back flips, stopping pucks that are like almost in the net and pulling them off the, like there was some of that fleeting moments of that. The Leafs did not overwhelm the Bruins with offensive opportunities that were just, they were set aside. And I don't care what number you're going to come up with that indicates as such. At best, the Leafs were right there as far as scoring chances against one of the lowest scoring teams in the NHL, it must be said, and one of the lowest scoring teams in the Stanley Cup finals in the Boston playoffs in the Boston Bruins, they didn't create enough. So yeah, is Jeremy Swamin very good? Is he going to be very good going forward? Was he very good in the series? Yes. Should the Leafs offensive talent have created more offense and made him work harder in this series unquestionably, in my opinion. All right, time now for our insider brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus, where you can expect excellence online and in the showroom, visit Don Valley North Lexus dot com. It's a Monday show we've done before with our next guest, Frank cerebelli, president of hockey content at daily face off dot com. Hello, Frank. How are you holding up guys? It's fine. Again, like it's far better than me. Yeah, no. We've done this before this old hat and it's an adult too. It's not unexpected. Um, okay, outside of perspective, it's, it's needed because yeah, a lot of navel gazing here over the last couple of days, just overall take away from the seven game series for the Maple Leafs. Whew, that's quite broad and open ended. Um, intentionally, yes, what I would say is one of the biggest, most surprising things that I heard coming out of the Toronto Maple Leafs locker room on Saturday night was, but we were so close, so bleeping close to that team. And the only thing I could think about in my head was that they've lost the plot. So close to what? Yeah. Winning a first round series against a Bruins team that probably that is probably going to get their doors blown off by the Florida Panthers this round, which is kind of the same thing that I was thinking about last year when you finally win a series and then you lose in five to the eventual Stanley Cup finalist. Oh, I mean, I guess you could say you're closer. I don't like to winning a series. The bottom line is this, the Toronto Maple Leafs won three of a required 16 games to win the Stanley Cup. And had we backed it up six weeks and I had asked you guys the question on this show, do you think the Toronto Maple Leafs are an authentic one of the five teams in the tournament that has a true realistic chance to win the Stanley Cup? Your answer probably would have been no, right? Yeah. That's fair. If you're, if you're going to put it to a club of five, then absolutely five, six, something in that range, like, you're drawing a circle around teams that you think have an authentic real, they're a threat to win. The numbers people really like the Leafs though, we'll say and they always like the Leafs. Well, you know what? Hold on. The numbers people, like, honestly, you're, you're kidding yourselves. If you're, if your numbers and your models, and I, I can think of at least one person very specifically who stuff that I see on Twitter all the time, if your numbers and models have repeatedly had the Toronto Maple Leafs as the number one team in the league for the last five years, your model is broken, sir. Yeah. Your, your model needs to be reconfigured and recomputed. And forgive me because I don't know exactly which numbers person this is, but whoever publishes like that big pie chart, again, with all the percentages and like win around, win a second round, win a conference final, win a Stanley Cup and you are kidding yourself. That's the one I'm thinking of. It's like, what? The Leafs are the third place finisher in the Atlantic division and they're favored out of, you know, the Panthers and the Bruins to go further than either of those teams. That's, uh, okay. The reason I made this point though is I've said this. This is not a Toronto Maple Leafs specific criticism. It's, if you are one of the teams that is not in that small circle, then you need to reevaluate what you're doing to make sure that next time around you're in that circle. And until you are able to answer that question with a yes, you are also just kidding yourselves. And what you're hoping for is some kind of miracle run like the 2019 St. Louis Blues, like the 2018 Washington Capitals teams that, you know, weren't really expected to do it. Yeah, I think there is obviously an element to that. I think there's so much to pick out with the Leafs and there's a myriad of reasons why they've lost, but you mentioned it, the goal scoring, the goal scoring, you know, moral failing maybe isn't the right way to put it, but you see what the Euler stars do in their first round series and you say, well, why can't it look like that for the league? Here's another criticism. Yeah, please. So like I'm sure you saw the tweet yesterday from Bob Stauffer who works for the Edmonton Oilers, and he had all of the points per game for McDavid, dry side old Matthews and Marner and they've all played the same number of games and yet McDavid and and dry side all have 40 more points in the same number of games played than Matthews and Marner. And then so then the next criticism that Leafs fans will throw at them and say, well, but look at the first round opponents they've had, they've been cake. At some point, the excuse making and what I would call a loser's mentality that has enveloped the entire franchise in Toronto, and I'll explain that in a second. Well, I'll unpack it. This idea that, oh, we ran into the Bruins again, oh, God, the lightning in our division. Oh, and then we get through those teams, the Panthers, oh, man. At some point, your team has to be the team that makes everyone else afraid instead of the other way around. I don't. Okay. Hold on. The Toronto Maple Leafs have never been able to cross that threshold. Okay. Hold on. Listen to what Sheldon Keef said on Saturday. No one, no one is afraid of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Yeah, I'm not going to sit here and disagree with you. But to paper over the idea of what it's like to be incubated in the Atlantic versus I don't know. Personally, me, I think if the Leafs had three straight first round series against the Kings team, especially one that fired their coach halfway through the season, I do think we'd be sitting here talking about the incredible numbers for Austin Matthews or do you realize how ridiculous that sounds because the Edmonton Oilers lost to the Stanley Cup champion the last two times out. Yeah, I'm not saying that the Leafs are exactly the same as the Oilers here. But to have the understanding that every year they are going to go into and, you know, we can quibble about how how good this year's Boston team is. But every single year, it is a quality opponent that for me, maybe you're by the lightning stank and Andre Vasilevsky stank and that series and that's the reason they want it. Like it was the, it was the worst first round series the Leafs had played in the last number of years and they won. Okay. They played better against the lightning a couple of years before that. Okay. And then they don't get a lick of credit for that. So I don't understand why they have to apply for winning this year. Well, there is though. What credit is there to give for a team that didn't even get a quarter of the way there? What credit are you looking for? No one, all I'm saying is you cannot just say results are the only thing that matters when they lose. And then when they win in an unimpressive matter, say, well, that doesn't matter. They were no good in that series. And we all know that. No, that's not what I said. What matters is that they got their doors blown off next round against the Panthers. No. That's what matters. All right. That, that is fair. But you're, you're also kind of papering over the idea that, yeah, and if we're going to just make it about the Oilers here, do you not think the Leafs would have gone? It would have gone a little bit differently. No, maybe your answer is no. I might as well. I can say no. Mine is yes, that if they were playing the Kings in the first round, at least had their chance at this. They blew it against the Jackets. They blew it against the Canadians because of that sleeper cell. How much easier a path do you want? Well, do you not think, do we not think that Austin Matthews, and I'm just going to make about Matthews in the event, because tomorrow is in whatever is harder to get against the Montreal Canadiens. Do you not? The vision was Austin Matthews a 60 goal, Austin Matthews when that happened? I don't think he was. I think Austin Matthews a better version of himself now than he was on pace for like 90 goals that season. Do you, do you think Austin Matthews not a better player now than he was two or three years ago? I certainly do. Sure. But I mean, the goals growing was outrageous that season. Okay. And say that the player hasn't made strides and that that isn't, I'm not saying the Leafs have not had their chances. I'm not saying they shouldn't have walked over both those teams, but to sit here and hold up the Oilers points of the team that has had, quite honestly, I don't know that you could hand pick kind of three easier or an easier opponent to have year over year over year to compare the Leafs going up against the lightning every single year versus the Kings. You're getting lost in this in something about the Oilers triggered you and that was exactly not the point here. The point here is that the Toronto Maple Leafs have gone into this and I think what permeates through the entire organization from top to bottom is a fear factor and losers mentality. You've heard, I believe at varying points, the president, the head coach, everyone seems to talk about, oh man, the stress of playing in Toronto. But doesn't that exist? The eyeballs, the market, is that everything? Is that not a true fact that exists? Like, is it not? Have you ever, let me ask you a legitimate question. Yeah, please. Have you ever heard the New York Yankees say that? No, I haven't. They also have a thousand times in my lifetime with proof of concept. So maybe, just maybe it's a little harder to do it here as a hockey team. Maybe it is. What's a bigger market that will swallow you up and spit you out? They can also just go buy whatever they want until it gets to work or okay, but you can also just paper over your mistakes and say, Hey, give me a one soda, give me an air and judge, pay them whatever he wants. Like they're different people would make that's the same argument the Leafs have done with their forward group, but it's, but it's not true. Pay them whatever they want, but there is a hard and fast cap on what they can play. Like the idea of the Yankees, yeah, they could just go spend to overpower their problems or the pressures of the market. So okay. So you're triggered by the Oilers. Now you're triggered by the Yankees. Let's see if we can boil it down a little bit further. Sure. Let's go. The scariest part for the tour falls, the scariest part for the Toronto Maple Leafs losing this first round series to the Boston Bruins is that their defense, which is as undermanned as any in the league, was not the issue in round one. True or false? Uh, if that's the scariest part, I mean, it's twofold. It's that they didn't score. Right. Like, and that's what I'm saying. It's not the, it's not the defense that we all acknowledge is the weakest part of this team on paper. Yeah. Or the gold. It's not a factor. Or really the goaltending. Like you can point to Ilya Sampson off say percentage and he was finding game seven. Yeah. No issues at all. Yeah. I don't, I don't love either goal, but whatever. Yeah. You, you allow two goals in an elimination game after being pulled at lunchtime. You're playing. I'm pretty sure that counts as a win. It is a hundred. Yeah, no, it definitely didn't affect the Leafs to have the guy that pulled them back into the series, taken away from them right before game seven. Like that didn't affect the team. I don't know what you're arguing though, Brent. Are you arguing for like a full scale, like running back or like, what are you trying to claim? No, it's not the goalie. It's not the defense. It's the 14 games that they've played in which the, out of the last 13 playoff games, they've only scored more than two goals. Yeah, no, the goal, the goal scoring has been a problem. Like I'm not going to sit here and tell you otherwise, and this is why this series and that this seems to be when the referendum is going to final or the tax bill is going to finally come do for this core. That's why it's so frustrating to sit here and talk about the goal scoring when there is obviously a huge body of work, but to sit here and talk about like Austin Matthews missing games in the series doesn't matter. Like William Neelander missing the first three of this series doesn't matter. Those things matter. And they've had a body of work that this is a conversation larger than this, but that is where I think the frustration right when they did play, they didn't do anything. Matthew's pretty good in game two, but yeah, and you're right, Matthew's was their best player to start the series without question. It doesn't matter though, the body of work over super seeds, whatever little thing. And a near 70 goal score heard or not doing what he did in this series is largely still unimpressive. And the power play stuff carried over from the regular season where everybody, I mean Mitch Marner missed some time, but who cares? Like he was also there for a lot of it and it was an underwhelming power play. This is where I point out Matthews. But it's been underwhelming for multiple years, but so what like I said, Brent, like during the regular season, Matthews and Neelander spent the entire season playing on the first power play unit and they were not, they were not as good as they needed to be. They have the sixth best power play in the league. I mean, look at where it was from February on that it was entirely built on the strength of an incredible, they were like Matt Chapman of power plays. They had one month where they were unreal outside of that there were one of the worst in the energy. Okay, then extrapolated over the core this, this core time, they have been over the last what three, four, five seasons in the postseason. They run score. They run into Vashal Fsk, Jeremy Swett. Again, like I'm watching the games, I'm not saying that's a loser's mentality. That's exactly what I'm talking about. Oh, but we just ran into Jeremy's women. He's not the second coming of Patrick Waugh. It's pretty good. He just isn't. No, he's pretty good. But yeah, he's good. But he's dead. No, I'm with you impermeable. I'm with you. They didn't, they didn't test him enough. They just, they just frankly didn't. They didn't, he had incredible numbers and he made some nice saves, but this is not a guy. Boy, what was it? I didn't just series from a number of years ago where it's like, oh, I didn't even win that series. But you're like, God, it's holy cow. How is this series going? As long as it is, it's on the strength of one guy is not what we saw from Jeremy Swett in this series. We got to talk to you about Mitch Marner. Do you know, wait, do you, do you know when I knew that the Leafs were losing game seven? When? When you were born? No, that's just watching the game. Yeah. 20 seconds after they take a lead, Joel Edmondson is on the rush. Mm. Trying to get a scoring chance. Mm. 20 seconds. So then, okay, let me, let me ask you this then, what is it about the Leafs that infects Joel Edmondson? Because that's Mr. Game seven. He's never lost one of those. That is not his game. Do you think it is something about the Leafs culture that like permeated into Edmondson? Because it's not lost. I mean, I saw the exact same thing. And that is the guy, again, that was like the reason I believe the most. You finally had a guy who wins these things. Do you think it is something about? No, I think it just, it was a poor decision. But it told me more about the total team mindset instead of being like, hey, we got to clamp down and hang on for dear life to close out these last nine and a half minutes. Mm. Yeah. We had the stay at home defenseman with almost zero offensive capability at the forefront of a rush trying to get a scoring chance. 20 seconds after taking the lead in a game that had been scoreless to that point. Yeah, it wasn't exactly the most dangerous shot in the world from half as Lindholm that beat Ealy Samson on either. But like I said, you allow one goal in regulation. I'll tell you that. Yeah. Anyways. Okay. So Mitch Marner, he's got full no trade, full no move. He is doing extension by somebody after July 1st, certainly not coming in the immediacy from this organization. I think we can all agree. I don't know if you have any insight as to whether a conversation will be broached with him about a potential move out of Toronto. And if it is, like what kind of return can you get for a guy who has a huge cap hit now will have an even bigger one when he signs whatever extension he signs and can control his landing spot. Well, I don't have any knowledge of a conversation because none has occurred to my knowledge. So anything, you know, said from here on in as conjecture, but what I would would say is the fear that has sort of grabbed the fan base of, well, look at all these guys with no move clauses, they could really get in the way. I find this conversation to be really simple. If you are the Leafs and you have made the decision that you want to move on from Mitch Marner, the conversation is very simple and it goes like this, Mitch, we appreciate everything you've done here, but under no circumstances are we re signing you to an extension. And whether you've played your last game or it happens at some point next season, you're done with the Toronto Maple Leafs. So you can either rip the Band-Aid off now or you can go through an entire contract year, a critical contract year, knowing that you're playing for a team that doesn't want to have you here. Yeah. What does Mitch Marner do then? I don't know in how he could decide or how his representative could decide that an all-important contract year after that kind of playoff showing is the prudent play to stay. Yeah. So I don't believe that to be, I've read it, I've seen it, I've heard it, everyone's saying, "Oh my God, the no moves." I just, I don't see it being a factor. When a team, when you find out your team doesn't want you, you're just as soon gone. Yeah. Unless you have this insane and it would be delusional at this point, belief in yourself that, "Hey, okay, whatever, I can shut up the noise for the regular season," and this, I don't care. Like, in the postseason, I'm going to win a consummate and I'm going to bring this team Stanley Cup and, you know, I'm going to make it undeniable because of my postseason play that I'm going to make $15 million in an extension. Yep. I'm going to be 174 pounds of 3% body fat and I'm going to have a supermodel girlfriend. Well, I mean, we could all dream. Anyways, I believe in you. Frank, always a pleasure, buddy. Thanks. See you guys. Bye-bye. Frank Cervelli, president of hockey content at dailyfaceoff.com and our insider brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus, where you can expect excellence online and in the showroom visit Don Valley, northlexus.com. I need some clarity from you, Brent, because I know you're like, you're all about for, you're trying to show both sides of the argument and provide needed context in discussing these series failures, but I need to know from you, you need to tell me whether, like, what these facts that you keep bringing up of awesome math is not being 100% and William Kneelan are missing the first three games and Joseph Wall being injured for game seven. Like, so what do we do? What would you have us do with that information? No, I just think it needs to be, I think it is context that just needed to be at. I don't think that the conversations everyone is having here about moving on from Mitch Marner and firing Sheldon Keefe and having a slight change of direction at the very top of this. I am wholly on board with all of those things. I just like it. Here's what I actually, here's what I'll say is when we have these conversations and the we I mean here is like the city of Toronto. We understand. It's like, crap on the Leafs, all you want. I am not sitting here telling you, oh, don't make excuses. That's not what I'm telling you, but to sit here and pretend, and yeah, the Oilers do trigger me a little bit, to sit here and pretend like it's been the exact same thing. Why can't the Leafs break through? I don't know. Did they get to play a team that fired their head coach partway through the season? I mean, did they get to? It's different. Like, is it a different team than the one that played in the North Division? It's a worse one, frankly. The one that played in the North Division was awesome. And they still blew a 3-1 lead and lost to an inferior Canadian team. You can talk about the Kerry Price run all you want. No, I don't even do that. I just look at that as a failing of the Leafs. I don't look at that as anything. Yeah, we have those. So like, I don't, that end of conversation for me. Yeah, for me, for me, it's, and you're, I guess my opinion is like, you're allowed to say that because you know, I know you know. And Frank is papering it over. And that's why I don't like hearing it from outside. We all hear considering the boo the Leafs, boo the Leafs. They're our mom. Okay. We could say whatever we want about them. I don't like it when Frank Saravelli comes in here. I do. I love Frank. Can you understand what I'm saying? I think that's where, that is where I get my backup is to talk about, talk about all these other teams. Like, oh, I can't, why can't the Leafs do that? I, I don't know. Did they have to go? We, we sit here and talk about the Canucks. Oh boy, they found it. Uh, I, I feel like they're going to find a quick series with Edmonton and then we're going to talk about the Oilers like their world beaters when, guess what? Good team. Great players. Super flawed as well. So that is where my back gets up. I don't, I do not feel differently about the Leafs than any of all you out there saying trade this guy or fire this, I feel all those things. But I loathe it when the comparison comes up to, well, why is this team been able to do it? If you want to talk about point to Boston point, they could do it. They can't. Agreed. They're going to be in the division in the sport because they're all very good at it. That's where I think you, you cannot have a conversation about this leaf Sarah without throwing in. Doesn't have to be the main fact, but without throwing in that hit is existed at the time when they're supposed to be most ready to win in the hardest division and not in the history of the league or anything, but for sure in this era of the NHL, there has been a concentration of not good, but elite high level cup contending teams in their division, the entirety of the playoffs. And you're supposed to win a Stanley Cup if you're the Toronto Maple Leafs. So like, you got to play those teams eventually. So I guess we're having a conversation in the second round when they face the Bruins or the Panthers or the Lightning, whatever. They're supposed to be better than those teams. They're supposed to win a Stanley Cup. You think they're supposed to be better last year or over the last five years than the Lightning back to back cup champions are supposed to be better than that? What's the point? Yes! What do you mean? Wait, wait, wait, wait, you think that Norinich and Hen built this team to be the second best in the national hockey league? I'm not saying they shouldn't strive to, but the idea that we sit here and talk, when we look back on this era of the NHL, we're going to talk about Stephen Stamkos and Nikita Kucharov and Brayden Point and Victor Heaven and all those guys as serial winners, undeniable. And that doesn't mean that the Leafs can never beat them, but does sit here and talk about it? They're not supposed to be that because you're supposed to be better. To sit here. Because you have Austin Matthews and Mitch Marner and William Nealander and John Tavares and you brought those guys in to be better than them. Two of those things are not like the other two and I think that's ultimately the crux of all of this. Yeah, so we're back to the same, they stink, they have stunk too much and not good enough compared to the good teams that win Stanley Cups over the last eight years. If we're talking about all the teams in the Atlantic, I agree, I just got upset when we talk about the Oilers because they have this cupcake playoffs all the time and they're going to walk through the Canucks. Okay, but they've been a disappointment in the playoffs too. Nobody's looking at them and it's like, whoa! But I do! But I actually have no... No, but that's insane. You can look at the individual performances and say, the reason they've lost these series hasn't been because Conor McDavid hasn't shown up is because they have sieve goal tenders or they're allowing so many goals of the team. Yes, but not, okay, but the main part is still very good. The main part, the point, when they've had sieve goal tending, I imagine, part of it, I imagine, is like, you know, a lack of structure. The same reason we give Swaming credit, but we also give the Bruins credit, you know, like those guys are responsible for other parts of the game. Like, I know we're sitting here bogged down on the Leafs and them not scoring, right? The Leafs, oh, we should talk about that. I just, I get irked when we talk about the path other teams have had and we try to act as though the Leafs path is completely, it should not matter in this conversation. It doesn't, like, Oilers lose to the Canucks or even in a conference final and they're having the same conversation we're having in Toronto about being unable to get it done because the goal is to win a Stanley Cup. It's not to win a round, it's not to win two rounds, not even to win three rounds. It's to win it all and yeah, winning one round feels like some made up bar in Toronto and they achieved it once. It's not the bar. All right, as mentioned earlier in the show, Bear Naked Ladies, the big racket will be performing sobe stadium on June 27th, we're giving away tickets to enter for a chance to win Texan today's code word one week to 59590, again, that's one week to 59590, we are giving away another pair of tickets tomorrow. But if you don't win with us, make sure to secure your tickets at ticketmaster.ca. Ben Ola-Wah was in the building in Boston on Saturday, he of TVA Sports joins us next, as the fan morning show continues, Ben Ennis, Brent Gunning, SportsNet 590, the fan. Diving deep into leaps, rafters, J's and NFL, the JD Bunk is podcast, subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Good morning show, SportsNet 590, the fan, Ben Ennis, Brent Gunning right now, the mics are being tested down at Skooshabank Arena or MasterCard Centerway, probably Skooshabank Arena outside of it. This afternoon, the Ford performance center, I thought. Is there a MasterCard now? Oh yeah, I always forget, you're right, apologies to Ford, not paying us, yeah. Wherever it is, available for hire, if you want, wherever it is, you can hear it live here on SportsNet 590, the fan post-season media availabilities of all the players and Sheldon Keefe at 11 o'clock, yeah, won't be at Skooshabank because they just don't have the like, as nice, like media set up, I think that's why they always do it at whatever they call the training center these days. Yeah, it will go somewhere. All right, let's talk to Loretta Olavwa of TVA Sports, who was in Boston on Saturday. How's it going, Ren? In Boston, I'm pretty good in Boston Saturday, yesterday, Port Lauderdale, I have the ocean on my right, the city on my left, stuff to beat, yeah, yeah, it could be worse. Absolutely, that sounds nice. So take us back to Saturday, because we all expected, oh, those Bruins fans, finally, the nerves shifting to that fan base, it's not the Leafs with the most pressure. Did you get that sense, and like maybe for the minute, 20 of the Leafs had the lead in the third period, what was the sense in the building? Yeah, well, that building shut down pretty quickly when Williams scored that goal, right? And everyone was kind of on a panic mode. But if you look at what happened after, the Bruins suddenly changed the way they played. They started pushing the Toronto Maple Leafs, and they spent a lot of times in the ozone. And first thing you knew, you know, is they're scoring the tying goal, and that building went up. And not only the building went up, but the team went up. I remember being in the corridor, close to the Boston Bruins, dressing room, and you know when the players came in after the third period, and when it went out, you know, to go on the ice, I told on there at TVA Sports. I believe it's going to be pretty quick, because I sense a different vibe with the Boston Bruins. They were confident, suddenly they felt good about themselves, and the Leafs passed their knack like that alone in front of Samson up, and you knew exactly what will be the end result. Yeah, what a shocker. At the end of the day, the Boston Bruins culture came through in a big, big moment. And one of their stars after their coach called them out, yeah. Just kind of exactly how he drew it up there. Obviously, coaching was a big kind of topic in that series where we're expecting to hear from Leafs head coach Sheldon Keefe today. What did you make of the way the two guys handled themselves, Keefe Montgomery, in the series? I mean, I think it's safe to say Keefe is a little more tense. I don't know if that's his personality. I don't know if that's a weight of the market, a little bit of both. But just what did you make of the battle between those two? You know what, I think it was great. And I had a luxury with the right folders to speak to both coaches, maybe two hours before every game. And it was just great, great with us, really calm. Even when things were not going the right way, you know, when they were down 3-1, you know, we didn't change it, we didn't change it with us. Actually, it was, you know, it was quite candid about who's playing, who's not. I think that, you know, he believed in a way in himself and in a way that this team is going to play. He knew obviously at one point that Austin might as well be there. I think the team, the way they respond was just unbelievable in my mind, that was best. The best playoff made police hockey in a while. It was fun to watch. Everyone was dialed in. You know, to have Austin back for game 7, I think, gave a boost to a lot of people. I think that he played a good game, even if he was not, obviously 100%. And it could have easily turned the other way, right? If you need the goalie, Jeremy Swamin, to have a bad night, and it's over, that's the end of the story. So, you know, the Maple Leafs were right there, and, you know, I think they were a tight group. I think they were confident group. You know, they just missed something in the recipe, and that's something missing. They need to find it. And I don't know, I'm not, I'm not a genius. I can't, it's easy, I think, to play them on the morning quarterback or to point fingers. But at the end of the day, I don't think that you're going to hear one Maple Leafs player being happy to be on vacation today. It's not going to happen. It's upsetting for the fans, it's upsetting for management, and knowing a little bit of that, the players in that wrestling room, it's really upsetting for them. They're tired of it. And I'm sure we're going to hear that today. Yeah, and it's going to be a very interesting off season in Toronto. Specifically, surrounding Mitch Marner, who is headed towards the final year of his deal, has a no move clause. We saw the visible frustration in the middle of game four, throwing the gloves, and he was better in the third period there. He was pretty good in game five, but ultimately finishes this series with just what the three points and the one goal. How do you evaluate Mitch Marner's performance over the seven games in this series? You know, Mitch Marner last year, if Patrick Bergeron was not a cell key nominee, probably would have been in the top three in the cell key, you know, voting. This year, if you look at the overall season, it was not like last year, right? Can I say this? Like I think I think I'm honest, okay, if it wasn't the same, does this mean that Mitch Marner is done, that he's not a good player? You need to be really careful to put, you know, a name or whatever on a player and say this player is this, right? Like, not do Shane, oh, not do Shane. What a bad person. You don't know that do Shane, not do Shane is not a bad person. Shane is totally stupid and look at every Shane today and telling you, I was around the Dallas Stars a couple of times this season. They're in love with Matt DuShane and they just hope to sign him for the next few seasons because they know the value that they have but look what the predators did with him, right? It wasn't good enough for them. Yeah. Well, they could have used Matt DuShane in the playoffs this year, okay? So before throwing darts, okay, I think it's really important just to take a step back. Who's Mitch Marner? Mitch Marner is your best scorer in the playoffs for the Toronto Maple Leafs since that's a core four exists. That's the reality, okay? So and it needs to be part of his story with the Maple Leafs. You can't rewrite the story every time, every year. What you need to do is take a step back and say, okay, does he want to stay here? If the answer to that question is yes, no problem, stay. We need more. Yes, I know. I know. I didn't have a good season. Blah, blah, blah. But he's going to have a good season. The next season, I believe. So, but like I said, it's easy to throw darts, but I believe that at the end, what was the big difference, guys? Joseph Wall was not in that and that that was a killer. And I believe that Sheldon Keefe, when he talked to us in the morning at 11, 11.30 at the at the TD Garden, he kind of knew that there was a problem with his goalie because I knew there was a problem with his goalie. I saw it in practice. So I'm pretty sure that he was really rattle about it and there was a lot of people in that dressing. I'm really rattle about it. We're not going to have our quote unquote MVP of the playoffs tonight because probably of the back injury or whatever it is. You know what I mean? Yeah. So that's a killer. There's no other way to put it. And I think Samsonov did a hell of a job, but but Samsonov was not Joseph Wall during the playoffs, and that's your goal is like your quarterback. If the quarterback goes down, you need help, you need prayers here. Yeah. Yeah. The Leafs, I tend to agree. Like, I don't think Samsonov costs him that game, but I do think there's just an element of Joe Wallace, the guy who got you back in the series and you lose him right before a game seven. How can it not kind of impact back to what you're saying about Marner? You know, I think you're an interesting person to ask about this, right? Because the prevailing sentiment here is, okay, so Mitch Marner, if he doesn't want to, let's say the team wants to move on, but he doesn't want to play ball with a no-move. It's well, go make him earn his money next year. And if he has another ho-hum playoff, then, well, how much money is he going to get on the open market? I tend to think that kind of regardless of what the playoff numbers look like, I'm not saying it would happen here, but I can't imagine a world where Mitch Marner's value drops to a point where he's still not a 11, 11 and a half, $12 million player next year, be it with the Leafs or somebody else. I'm not saying I want to sign him to that. I'm not saying that's the smart, necessarily the best way for the Leafs to go about it. But there has been this belief that, you know, the playoffs struggle this year, and if there was another playoff like that next year heading into free agency, it would kind of tank his value a bit. And I don't know, maybe you feel differently, but I don't think that's the case, Ren. That's not the case. And by the way, what Mitch Marner in the market and say, well, that'll be really interesting. There'll be a lot of people interested in Mitch Marner. I'm convinced that, you know, that obviously there's some cat issues from 14s and we understand all the, and I understand and we need to understand that the main police are not going to give them away, if it happens, right, if it happens, they're never going to give that guy away for a first round pick. It's not going to happen. You need to give me young players, prospects, some stuff that I can't work with if the Leafs are taking that direction, that would be kind of a blockbuster trade. But there'll be a lot of people interested because Mitch Marner can bring a lot of things for a team and I believe, I believe that if it happens, maybe Mitch wants to stay with the Toronto Maple Leafs for the rest of his career and I'm okay with it. But if not, if not, I believe that he's going to be even a better version of himself. Not because I think he can be more offensive than he was, let's say, last year. I think what he did last year was great and I think he can do it again. But it's just overall game, right, and I believe that if he's got one day a chance to play elsewhere, if that's what he wants, maybe he's going to have a different approach and maybe it's going to be a little different, but Mitch Marner's a player. And the second year, they're going to put him on the market, good for that. The team has got a trade for him and good for him. But like I said, if he stays with the Toronto Maple Leafs, I'm okay with it because the example that we had of them playing for the Toronto Maple Leafs over the years are not bad examples, not at all. This year was tough. This year was tough. That's it. Turn the pitch. There's even been good postseason moments, albeit it's a while ago. But he's had some moments against this Bruins team about a half decade ago. Renault really, really enjoyed our chats throughout this postseason run. Thanks so much for doing it. Enjoy beautiful sunny Florida. I will. It's going to be a long second round. I'm pretty sure, but it's going to be fun as usual. Take care, guys. All right, you too. See you, Ren. Renault La Bois. TVA sports. Good front row seat for Matthew Kachek taking a not so veiled shot at the Toronto Maple Leafs. No, I think like a spotlight. He's like, I am going to take a shot. Everyone come here. Can I get the world? Clear out. It's an ISO. Can I get the world's finest cinematographer? Yeah. I want to make sure everyone sees this. Yeah. So Mitch Marner. Yeah, I think he's going to get paid, right? Like if it's on in Toronto and it's pretty clearly not this off season in Toronto and I don't know what would have to happen during the regular season to get the same William Kneelander conversation around Mitch Marner about, hey, Brad, we're living. You got to get this done. How are you going to? How are you going to walk this guy to free agency? You can't afford to lose him. There is nothing that happens. How dare you? Yeah. If Mitch Marner is hanging around during the season, it's playing out the whole season and the whole playoffs and I should not discount the possibility of the thing that Frank very much laughed at of Mitch Marner having his best moment of his entire career in a postseason next season and then, okay, all is forgotten, obviously, obviously, obviously, but we have to take the information and the evidence at our disposal and say that that is unlikely and also can you get through a whole season after having a conversation which has to be taking place here of waving your no move clause when your boss says, "Hey, man, we're not extending you. We're not having conversations during the season. It's the Stephen Stamp Coast thing, except Stephen Stamp Coast had a ring and you don't." Well, how much of this, if that conversation is happening, is colored by the conversations that are happening that affect who we hear from not today, but on Wednesday, Thursday, Thursday. Whatever the brass are speaking. If you're Brad for living, I'm not saying that, like, this was a Hall of Roads, I always lead back to Kaldubus, it's like, "Kaldubus, for his decision like this, I think part of the issue was he felt like he had to go get a say-so. Who is Brad for living getting that say-so from? If everything is moving accordingly, it's Brendan Shanahan. Like I don't even say this as Brad for living is just a puppet or anything. This is a massive organizational decision. Everybody who matters should have a say or at least have a meeting about it. So I don't say, so I wonder how much of that is kind of paralyzing it and I don't think that hurts them, because I don't think that there's anything that should be happening in the next three days that is going to color this. No, you got lots of time for this, right? You got the whole off-season. There's no deadline. There's no deadline. It's already-he's already got the move. The move is not, the move is not-and there's not, there's not, I don't think, another general manager that's going to step into this organization. It'll be surprising. Yeah. So it's going to be ultimately Brad for living, maybe not his ultimate say, but he'll have the genesis power of creating whatever change happens this off-season. Does he have a different approval structure above him? Maybe. But I mean, there was always going to be, it feels like Keith Pelly's going to be hands on either way. Yep. And even if Brendan Shanahan stays, like ultimately it has to go through the president of MLSE either way, so that doesn't change. And when that conversation takes place is going to be very curious. And the information that we get out of that thing and how the player reacts to that and whether he wants to go through this, whether he saw the Toronto Sun cover or not or how that was related to him or how much that impacts him or how much he still looks at Twitter. Feeling aggrieved, like we've heard explicitly from him that he feels like the coverage that he's received and the attention that he's received has been not positive enough to his liking, whether this postseason presents itself as a breaking point for him. Yeah. It's, I think he's either going to be a great actor or we're going to get a lot of insight into that today. I think the body language doctors will be in full swing because I think, you know, the words are going to be what they are. I don't expect some huge admission one way or another from Mitch Marner. But I do think you're going to be, what are the tone of the questions? Like, could that have an impact on all this? I'm not that it should, but if the questions are, how do you feel about how the year went versus are you willing to move your trade your no move? Like, I hope that gets asked. And I think that that is that his reaction to that again, he's not going to say the thing, but how does he look like there's going to be a lot of body language doctrine coming out of this. And it's like, it's unfair to them, but it's such a fun day for us. 11 o'clock on a sports at five 90, the fan leaves a player media availabilities and then Sheldon Keefe perhaps won for one final time as the head coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs. All right, we'll be back tomorrow, reacting to that on another edition of the fan morning show, Ben and his Frank Gunning Sports at five 90, the fan. Good morning. So nothing accomplished. [MUSIC]
