(upbeat music) - Man, morning coach 4.59 at the band, man. And it's Brad Gunning. Good morning to you, friend. - Yeah, good morning to you as well. How's it going, Ben? - It's going good. - Spirits are high. - Yeah. - Everyone's in a good job. - Don't worry, Schneider is not frustrated. - Don't worry. Everyone's in a good mood, Ben. - Yeah, yeah. - No, that was John Schneider being really happy and excited and really hopeful about this season. - This is the week of like, what's he supposed to say? But again, like earlier this week, maybe not that. - Maybe not. I don't know. - I don't know. If you watch that last night is... - And I know, like John Schneider's not giving a state of the union address. He's answering questions that were posed to him. But if you're watching that as you're like chief concerned like, gee, I hope the guys aren't beating themselves up too much after that performance. The mood's good. I know it's a long season. It's not an effort sport. Like, it says, go hire Craig Barube to yell at these guys. But it does, like that answer is just, I mean, again, it's one game. It's 162, yada, yada, yada. But it, I winced hearing that answer of, hey, don't worry. Spirits are high or whatever it was he said. Just infuriating. - I don't care about that. - Like, honestly, I don't... Here's what I care about. I'm not, so I don't care about the like post game comments and, hey, we're working hard. And I'm not getting down on these guys because that's like, like when we talk about Sheldon Keefe, hey, he knows the best way he thinks to get the best out of his players. And you're right to mention that baseball is a different sport, right? It's like, hey, you can't try your way of it. - Can't it better? It's like, what? How do I do that? - Do you do that? - You should grip the bat tighter. That's what you should do. And have more paralysis of thought. Yes, do that. - But there's an element of what you're talking about that I agree with, but I thought we saw that. Like, honestly, that's, and it's, even if it was performative, even if it was, you know, it was, hey, John Schneider's like, hey, here's my red meat to the fan base, or here's my indicator to the players that I'm not taking this lying down. And it was, I thought, it was a 50/50 call. I thought it went against the blue. It doesn't matter. He scored one run in the baseball game. But yeah, was it partly because he thought his pitcher got screwed? Yeah, it was partly because he thinks his season might be going down the tubes. Yeah. Is it partly because, man, I gotta do something staring down the barrel of my first step into the managerial chair in Major League Baseball is going horribly awry. Is it all of that when John Schneider got ejected from that horrific baseball game between the best team in Major League Baseball, the Philadelphia Phillies, who extended their home-winning streak to 11, and their overall winning streak to seven without even some of their best guys who might be in the lineup for this afternoon's game. I loved it. Yeah. I mean, to me, that's more impactful than after the game not saying, well, these guys stink. Right. They're horrible, and they need to hit better, and I'm gonna yell at them until they do, because that, in the history of Major League Baseball, it doesn't work. It's not Vladimir Guerrero Jr. getting picked off second base, right? It's not Bob Schmidt making a stupid base running error. He would have to get on base for that to happen. And that's not happening. So it's, I understand the after the game not taking the tact that people, I guess, want to hear the performative thing of these guys stink, which is like evident. He doesn't need to say it. We all know it. Dogs know it. This team stinks right now. To me, that element, like, if you want the catharsis of the manager saying something, that's him on the field losing his mind because of the call, but also because of all the things you and I are watching. No, I wholeheartedly agree with you. And I feel like I made that clear, but let me just double down on that, that you're right. Like, him saying it after the game doesn't matter. And it's like, it's not our man behind the glass, Santos and Azo who cooked that up, but it's like, I heard that in those four. It's like, I had made my piece with the 10 won loss. And then I hear, well, don't worry, everyone's in a good head space. I think the thing that is frustrating to me most, I mean, obviously there's a million things frustrating about the start of the season. And I want to be clear of all the problems the Blue Jays have, even if I think John Schneider's one of them, it's down the pecking order for reasons why this season's going the way it is. He does seem to have a problem, at least just in the last, I don't know, week or so of striking the right tone. They go into the weekend series and it's fire in brimstone. It's not, hey, one day at a time, it's the time is now. He basically gives us the Josh Donaldson, get it done, Lee quote. And then by the end of the weekend, well, you know, process is good, you're doing this after a loss. Don't worry, spirits are high. And again, you cannot look at it the same way. It is, I'd argue, the most different in terms of the way you have to coach a team of the four major pro sports. But that's the thing that's kind of been odd to me throughout this last week, really, has been seeming the yo-yo of messaging and like everything. We don't know if the messaging is being yo-yoed in the room. But from what we hear, Friday, it was, hey, we've got to get it done on the weekend. It's, you know, happy to take some strides. And then after a loss, it's don't worry. Everyone's spirits are still high. And I know that's not what Schneider would say if he's asked, hey, how do you feel about your team? Don't worry, everyone's happy. But that's, it can't not stand out to me. How much the tone seems to shift day to day in terms of the urgency, lack thereof, trying to find the right messaging, frustrated. - I don't know if any of it matters, 'cause it's team stinks. Like, and it's, here's the thing about the stinkage, okay? It's not the first time they've stank. And they stank down the stretch of last year's regular season. But there were numbers to indicate that they were better than what they were producing, right? Like, whether it was hitting with runners in scoring position or eggs and velocity stuff where it would Vlad, like all season long, there were, there were things you could be like, well, this is weird and it's obviously not good. And it's all about results, but it can get better. There's none of that now. Like, I don't know what to tell you. It's, here's the reality is that some of it is gonna get worse. Like, the Jose burials thing, like, I don't think one start does a season make, but Jose burials was do a clunker, right? Like, this is what we talked to Dan Showman about yesterday, all the peripheral stats around him. He was outperforming all of them, which you can do over the course. Guess what, he's still doing? Like, even with that one start, and his worst since only getting one out in the season opener a couple of years ago, he's still got an ERA under three. Yeah, he's probably not gonna end up with an ERA just over one and being the best pitcher by ERA in baseball. He might, and he might even still, but he wasn't gonna go the whole season limiting left-handed hitters to like a 100 average. Now, you'd like it to not look quite like it did against the Phillies where they were teeing off on the breaking ball. And the left-handed hitters have been his bugaboot throughout the course of his entire career, but that's, yeah, that's, you were getting the best out of Jose Barrios for a full month. Now they're, okay, I was just, I was going over, 'cause I asked Dan this yesterday, and I was hoping for a little more than I got, honestly. I said, "Hey, what are the reasons for optimism "with this group?" And he kinda like, "Come, did I?" He's like, "Yeah, it's a baseball's beautiful, though. "Watch on television in the summer, isn't it?" - God, aren't the road gray is beautiful. (laughing) Here's my reasons for optimism, Brian. I was thinking about this. - This is so brave of you. I would like to, before you even start, commend you on your courage. - Well, after this, I'm gonna do reasons for passes. - Oh, well, no, but that's easy. No, this is brave. - Well, okay. - Okay. - Here it goes. - All right, good luck. - Boba Shedt won't be this bad forever. - Oh, well, I mean, you keep saying it, and I believe it 0.001% less every day. It's like, wholeheartedly, I'm still in lockstep with you. - I mean, just, you'd like to see some strides here. - Yeah, we've seen this, it was worse in 2022. - I know. - Like, you think this is about, it was like, factually, by the numbers, worse, his start to 2022, before he rebounded, and it took an incredible final month and a half, two months, but he got the OPS over 800, and he led the American League in hits. But here's, he's not gonna, he's the eighth worst hitter in baseball, when it comes to OPS among qualified hitters right now. He's not gonna be that bad. So that is going to progress. And also, the starting pitching is pretty good. End of list, end of list, end of list. I can't tell you one other thing that is a reason for optimism with this group. I mean, you can talk about, okay, Vlad, he's also gonna be better, but like, he's not off to the horrific rancid start, the Boba Shett's off to, he's off to a bad start, he's taking his walks, he's not hitting enough home runs. Guess what? Vladimir Guerrero Jr. doesn't hit enough home runs. That's his career. - Yep. - And like, can he be, okay, upper 700 OPS guy? Okay, that's like 100 points up on his OPS right now. - Mm-hmm. - George Springer, maybe, can be better, but would anybody be surprised if he's just cooked, cooked, done, done? - Not me. - Alejandro Kirk, he appears to be not the same guy, but the sample is growing with him, that he's, he might not be any good offensively at all. Now he, he's one of the better defenders at that position, not necessarily cutting down base dealers, but yeah, framing pitches, blocking balls on the dirt, he's been one of the better defenders, but like, the whole thing was the offense where he was the guy that was getting DH days, not Danny Jansen. So yeah, I'm starting to hit on some of the reasons for pessimism, yeah, so Springer not coming back, Kirk probably not coming back, Vlad, he, okay, maybe a little bit better, but not the world's best hitter. And we already know the rest of the offense isn't good enough, and oh, also. - Yeah. - Gary L. Rodriguez, he was fun, he was on the IEL. Now the fifth spot in your rotation, huge question mark. - Yes. - I think Chris Bassett's gonna be fine, but he's getting lit up by lefties as well. You lose the bullpen, pieces in Jimmy Garcia and Chad Greene, and all of a sudden, the bridge to the one guy right now you have confidence in Jordan Romano is there isn't one, it's on fire. - Yes. - So yeah, it's just not good right now, Brent. - You said fire, that bringing me to everyone's favorite red-headed Toronto Bluejay, Justin Turner, you look at the last 50 or so played appearances, it has not gone well for him. Now this isn't his fault, but this is also a guy who tailed off towards the tail end of last year. I'd like to remind you, he's aged. If we think George Springer might be cooked, cooked at 34, I'm not saying Justin Turner is by any means, but the idea that the last month of the season, or the last two months of the season, is gonna look anything, or I shouldn't say anything, but like the first month, or the first month of the season went, I think you gotta be, you gotta be a little careful, just expecting that to carry over. If you are looking for positives, we talked about it so much, I'll throw it in here again, the Dalton Varshow of it all, but that's just a guy. - But why is that a positive? Like, why is that a reason for optimism? - No, no, no, that's exactly it, I was gonna say. Like, it's like, you're not getting better from him. The things that are going well on this team, feel like they're going about as well as can be expected. And again, to your point, like the bullpen, it's a bullpen. It will have, you know, ups and downs, and peaks and valleys throughout the season, but this lineup, it is what it is. I suppose if you're optimism, it's not even so much optimism for the results, but it's optimism, it's optimism for your eyes that it can't look like this for much longer, be it a Martinez. You've already seen Barger getting called up. There is going to have to be new faces here at some point in time. Be that a sell-off at some point later in the season, be that having to give yourself a look at prospects, and the fact that that's what I'm reaching for, positives a little over 20% into the season, yeah, it's jarring. Oh, yeah, they're dead last in the division as well. - Yeah, that's part of the pessimism is that they play in the toughest division in all of baseball. - The Red Sox just bash now, yeah. - Yeah, it's more there, starting pitching. They're the best starting pitching team in all of Major League Baseball, which was supposed to be their problem, but no, they figured it out with the rotation. Yeah, they play in the toughest division in baseball. They played the Rays, who are the second worst team in this division, and they split that series, and okay, they won a series against the Yankees, they're 500 against the Yankees, and played the Orioles, which is upcoming. - Jose Barrios gets a likely the first game of that series as well. - Yeah, yeah. I mean, and then secondarily to that, so we haven't seen the Orioles. It also, I get it as a numbers sport, and sometimes your eyes will deceive you, and you can use the numbers in concert with the eye test. - Both are pretty clearly telling you that good teams, like the Philadelphia Phillies, and the Blue Jays are diametrically opposed, and that the old expression, good pitching beats good hitting is true to a point. Like it doesn't mean it shuts it out forever, and like good hitting, like ultimately the ball is in the air, like the pitcher has to let go of it, and it is up to the hitter at that point to do what he will with the ball while it's flying through the air, and the Philadelphia Phillies hitters have decided to put it in the opposite direction about 400 feet. - Roughly. - It's, again, not to make another leaf parallel, but I'm going to here. It's just like, watch the Colorado Avalanche go down three nothing against maybe the best goalie on planet Earth, and especially after Connor Halabuk did what he did, but it's funny to get back to back. Pretty good goal is. Look at what that offense is able to create, even against the great, great defensive team and goaltender in the Stanley Cup playoffs. Look at what the Phillies, and again, Jose Barrios was bound to take a step backwards. Look at what that offense, a great offense, can do against great pitching. Even when this Blue Jays team looked at its best last season, or even this season, it's again, not a great pitching, and when they face great pitching, they can't do what the Phillies did. - It's so important that you bring this up, and you did this a lot during the Leafs season. I don't say that critically, I think it's a good, is to remind, we do the thing a lot of, well, you know, and a gun to go to a leaf parallel. - Well, it's back-to-back, and you got on your, although the Leafs never play on your, for some reason, it's always Wedgewood, and he just plays like on your, in those games, but we do that a lot. - Well, it's back-to-back, it's Jake Ottinger, what are you gonna do? I think you could do that. You could go score a bunch of goals on him, or, you know, to bring it back to the Blue Jays. You, we've seen it a million times. Clayton Kershaw certainly exists. Great players getting lit up in big moments, in big spots, by other great line-ups. It's what you should be able to do. Now, no one in Philly would be sitting there, you know, ringing their fists if the Phillies bats went quiet against a good starter in burrios. You know why? 'Cause they've proven the ability to do it against other good starters. So, you're okay to have the one off where it doesn't happen, but you also should, you're so right, to continue to hammer home, that just 'cause there's somebody talented, be it a pitcher, be it an entire roster of dudes on the other side, in the other dugout, doesn't mean you just have to accept your fate. I don't think the Blue Jays do that by any means, but I think we all kind of do that for them, and the Leafs as well, in terms of excuse me. - Tipping, you can tip your hat. You gotta tip your hat. - That's so good. - They're so good. - Hat tipping, they got like that finger mark on the brimming hat. - That's right. You know who they're, they're Phil Mickelson, just. - Mm-hmm, and thumbs up. - And then tip in the hat. - Tip in the hat, thumbs up, tip the hat. - That guy that looked pretty good, and like was inducing all those ground balls, Phillies, I guess right? - Yeah. - He's like the fourth starter for them. Like, thank you, that was your best shot. - Yep. - He scored one run, came in like the ninth inning. Anyway, so yeah, there's no lot you can do, right? - It's just, it's funny the way baseball works. I was looking at the baseball savant page for that game. They also had, I forget what it was, four or five or five of the six hardest hit balls. - Sure. - And it's like, yeah, launch angle, it's not like hard hit does not always mean great, but it's just, it is funny the way the sport works there. - Sure, sure, sure, sure. - No, no, don't take that. I feel like you're saying that. - No, no, no, no, no. - You think the J's are great offensively. - No, no, but yeah, okay. - Listen, it does, there's some harder hit balls. Alejandro Kirk had won yesterday. And boy, Danny Jansen looks like he needs to hit third or fourth like immediately. I don't know what we're doing here. I mean, to that point, so there's, Barry Bond's not walking through that door, okay? - No, no, you mean his hitting coach? No, that didn't go so well. - And you know what? I was gonna say like prime Joey Vodos not walking through that door. Like 2024 Joey Vodos, bro. - He's not walking through that hole. - How did I saw a report yesterday? - Yeah, well, 'cause it's May, it's hilarious. He's gonna miss one day 'cause he stepped on a bat and his ankle went ouch. And it's like, it is now May 8th. He's, you know, he's doing baseball activities. It's not yet ready to appear in a minor league game. It's May 8th. - I was gonna send that to you. - That's February. - I was gonna send that to you, but I didn't want to be accused of caring too much about Joey Vodos, so I just let that alone. - He stepped on a bat. It was February, right? No, maybe it was March. - Yeah, it was March. - It was not late March though. - No. - It's May. But yeah, like even 40 year old Joey Vodos not walking through that door, okay? And it's yeah. - Louisa Rise has already been traded. I don't know what else is out there to be traded. Even like when the Blue Jays, the season just fell off, was falling out from under them in 2021, where it's like, they had this incredible offense. They had Vladimir Guro Jr. reaching the highest highs. And finishing second in MVP voting, and the season was like, they had Trent Thornton closing games again, poor Trent Thornton. He's my go-to example from that season, but the bullpen was atrocious, and they were burning up the phone lines, give us anybody, and they finally did get somebody at the end of June, like it was at the end of June, when it was like, oh my God, way to jump the trade market a month early, okay? So nothing, that's a month and a half from now. So nothing, and last again, the things are different now that Louisa Rise can be traded. There is no trade coming. So you gotta do something. You gotta do something. And they did factually something, move Boba Shedd down the lineup. He's not far enough down the lineup, honestly. Like, why, if you did this, Boba Shedd hitting seventh thing before, why not do it now? You did it in 2022 with the understanding that eventually he would be elevated up the lineup once he started hitting. Why wouldn't you just message the same thing now? Like, everybody understands, I think. - Yes. - I mean, and maybe this season will play out, like I thought 2022 would, where it's like, oh my God, maybe Boba Shedd isn't who we thought he was, but now that we have the knowledge of what happened in 2022, and every season of his entire career, I still feel confident that he's going to be a well above average hitter, and amongst the American League leaders and hits, but right now he stinks, he's killing you. - Yep. - George Springer killing you. - Mm-hmm. - Why wouldn't you take some drastic measures here? I don't know if it's necessarily removing George Springer from the lineup. I'm fine with that too, but yeah. Clearly a new lead-off hitter. Clearly the idea of calling up Orellvis Martinez, who hit his ninth home run in AAA, yesterday has an OPS of 977, and I know he has no position. He's now committed seven errors in second base this season. It's like basically the only position he's played. I don't care. - Yeah, I can't make an errors a DH. - Sure, and even if it's, you got to play Justin Turner three, four days a week at third base to get your best offensive lineup up there. Whatever, your season's going down the tubes. I know it's May, and you're only four games under 500. - Mm-hmm. - But so what? You got to take some drastic measures here. - So, you know me, I love to do quick research on something we stumble upon during the show. It has been 52 days since Joey Votto stepped on that bat. - Nice, two months. - Yeah, just like that doesn't make you sound a trillion years old. - Yes, I'm also 40 years old. - You're a man. - And I know that, yeah, recovery times are different from me now too. Yeah, I get it. But that's even, that's quite a thing. Especially again, after the messaging of, well, we got the off day today, so that's nice. - We'll be back in there probably tomorrow. - Insane. - Two months later. - Insane. - In terms of what you mentioned about the lineup, the beshept thing, I can't, for the life of me, wrap my head around and, you know, feel free. Like, this is where I'm asking you to check me if this is wrong, but like, maybe this is too much a hockey style thinking. It's like, that feels like a guy you could go in there and rattle its cage and tell 'em you're slapping 'em down to seventh in the order, and that's going to get you good results. You know, I know George Springer was bought in here to be a leader of the clubhouse, and maybe it's hard to do that if you lose your lead up spot. You know what, and it's also hard to be a leader of the clubhouse when you're killing your team in the lead off spot every single day. Day off, moving down the order. I am fine with either. I'm with you on Schneider, being a guy that makes sense up there, man, I can hear Turner being up there 'cause I know you're at least, hasn't been that way as of late, but I have more confidence than what you're getting out of Springer that you're gonna get a half decent at bat out of him. The, the arise trade, I think you're right that, okay, he's traded, that doesn't, like, it doesn't, you can't see a world where that was gonna make sense for the Blue Jays, but then how much are they in this year? And how much of a 180 is there bound to be, you know, month before the deadline here? Because you look at the pieces that the Padres gave up for a rise, and like, I'm not gonna sit here and tell you I'm Mr., Mr. Prospects. I was about to like say a guy, but like, I can't even off the top of my head. - Key law. - There you go. I'm no Keith Law, okay? I am not baseball America, but you read your-- - You're a baseball candidate. - I am, I am. - You read the, you read the reports of what the Padres gave up there, and it's not an overwhelming amount. You could have cobbled, now, a rise? Is he gonna change everything? No, you'd like someone with more loud power than I think consistent contact, but if this is a team that wants to make the playoffs and wants to push in, you're not gonna need just one bat, like the idea of one bat coming in here and changing everything. You just get the big bopper and it's like having tail back. I don't think that's gonna be enough. So if the, it is entirely possible that you're sitting here after this team has pulled itself back to, I won't even say respectability, because again, there are what, two games below 500 now, but I think that this is gonna be-- - There's four games, though. - Four games under 500, okay. We're slipping farther and farther away, but I do look at that and say, is that not, it's not a punt, it's not a capitulation on this season, but that is a guide that there is no bones, one way or another would have helped this lineup. Where does he play fair question? What's it worth to you also a fair question? - You're talking about a rise? - Yeah. - Yeah, I mean, you're probably not trading for Louisa rise 'cause like, we're, and it's hard not to think this way, and we'll expand a little bit more on this at seven o'clock. It's hard not to think about with one year remaining of team control on Boba Chet and Vladimir Guerrero Jr. That things don't turn around and things don't look different. - You're headed for at least partial tear down. - Then get, like to your point on that, then get the Martinez's or whoever up here to give you a different look. If it's not gonna be enforcement's from outside, and notice I say enforcement's not even reek, 'cause I don't know if it's any better, but just something different, please. - Yeah, I think you will see the relevance Martinez when they think he's ready or, you know, that there's a final capitulation on this lineup. I'm not of the belief that like he, even Addison Barger, like all his first foray into the major leagues didn't go very well. He's broken forever 'cause now he knows he can't be a major league hitter. If that were the case, then he was never gonna be a major league hitter. Like I'm sorry, I'm sorry, Addison. And I don't believe that. I think like there were a lot of things to like and he hit into some tough luck. He also looked over match to times. Mike Trout, notably, was sent down after his first kick of the can at Major League Baseball, didn't break his spirit. - Wow. Dennis, say Addison Barger, the next Mike Trout. - Yeah, exactly. So yeah, if you think, and boy, Ralphus Martinez appears to be doing everything you asked him to do, including managing the strike zone. - I would imagine they said, hey, could you stop? Could you take a glove out there? He's like, I'm good, I don't need one. I wanna make all these errors. - Yeah, I imagine they have said to him, could you stop booting the ball clear across the Canada U.S. border? I do think they've said probably ask him to do. - I shortchanged him a couple errors. He's up to nine. - Yeah, so again, I do think, I'm sure they love the hitting, but I would imagine they're probably going, you wanna clean that up a little? - Yeah, this is his first kick of the can as an everyday second baseman. He's only played one game third base 24th second base this year. Ace committed nine errors, which is hard to believe because that's a shorter throw, obviously. The demands, I would think, are less on you than playing third base where he's played the majority of his career. He's also been a shortstop, but it's not gone well defensively, who cares? - The angle, you have heard this from a million guys that if you're used to a third or a short, the angle is weird at second, but yeah. So let me put it this way. I really hope those are all throwing errors. - Yeah. - Well, not all, but you know what I mean. - I feel better about that, 'cause that to me feels like a learning curve. If a guy's just booting it all over the place, it's like, I feel like he's probably had a lot of reps taking ground balls to your boy to being a short, a short stop and a third baseman. I do think you can see that and again, I don't think this means it's gonna be some gold gloves heck of baseman any day, but I do, I can see a world where that is a massive switch. I don't say that to make excuses for him. I just say there is clearly a lot of room to grow and this isn't a guy who's 25, he's 22, you know? - And you'll see plenty of them, especially as I mentioned, if things go very periche by the end of July. But, I mean, there's another guy down there who continues to hit, who's hit at the major league level as well, Spencer Horowitz, who spends some time in the left field, like the idea of calling him up and leading him off, like another on base guy with not a ton of pop, but playing him in left field, David Schneider at second base or third base, like there are permutations that you could do here that at least are something, right? - I just picture, I've just, as you said, Horowitz, I just picture Schneider, like, hey, I thought, I saw a rise was traded, did we have Louisa rise at home? Is Spencer Horowitz and he's hanging out in Buffalo? - Yeah, so if he takes a few more walks than Louisa rise, but, yeah, has he won any batting titles? - Yeah, he has a lot. - Okay, I know. - Anyways, I'll ask the question of Shida Vidi later on today, can he come up with some reasons for optimism surrounding this group? It's hard right now. - It's honestly maybe the meanest thing you've ever done to our Blue Jays, guess. - I wouldn't need to say mean, it's just like you are putting them to the test. - Listen, I guess proof of concept is that they can win games for three, three, two, five, four because they were doing it earlier. So if the starting pitching continues to be as great as it was over that stretch, and you have a different fifth starter this time around, and maybe Alec Manoa gets skipped this time through the rotation, that maybe you can cobble up and cobble together enough offense to win a couple of games. And all you need to do is hang around 500, and you're not out of it, out of it. But boy, yeah, some tough opponents upcoming, and just clearly, just aesthetically, this team looks very different than the good teams in Major League Baseball. We saw the best one. Yesterday, we're gonna see them again this afternoon, and they're gonna have their great catcher in the lineup, you would imagine, who wasn't in the lineup yesterday. - The great catcher with one of the greatest gifts in internet history, if I didn't even know what reliever it is, trotting out from the bullpen, and Rio Mudo seeing him, and just with the like wincing eyes, like, ah, not great, but yeah. I will never see JT Rio Mudo and not think of that. - I won't see him and not think of the spring training moment. Against the Blue Jays, where he got ejected for dropping the ball, like on the umpires foot, or something, whatever it was. - I'm sure, baby. - All right, Bear Naked ladies present the big racket. It's Sobey Stadium on June 27th to celebrate. We're giving away tickets to enter. All you have to do is tune in to episodes of the Fan Morning Show. Listen for the code word, then text the code word to 59590. Today's code word is rock. Text rock to 59590 right now for your chance to win. Today is the last day we're giving away tickets, but if you don't win with us, make sure to go to ticketmaster.ca to secure your tickets. When we come back, congratulations to my career in the San Jose Sharks. You won the lottery, and the guy you're about to pick has a photo of him in a Sharks uniform already, 'cause that's where he played. Some junior hockey. Also, Rod Brindomore finding himself two losses away from officially hitting the free agent market until pen to paper, eh? Something there? That and more next, as the Fan Morning Show continues, Ben and his friend, Gunning, Sportsnet 590, the fan. - Hey, it's Aelish for a Fire. - And I'm Justin Cutsford. - Join us as we discuss the most important sports stories of the day and tee up the biggest games of the night. - It's the Fan Free Game, 6 p.m. weekdays on Sportsnet, Sportsnet 590, the fan, and wherever you get your podcasts. (upbeat music) - Fan Morning Show, Sportsnet 590, the fan. Ben and his Brent Gunning. So the San Jose Sharks, they do the damn thing. The entire first five picks play out according to Hoyle, which is fine. Like, do you yell about the fix being in if everybody drafts where they're supposed to drop, which, by the way, the Toronto Maple Leafs did when they finished Dead Last in 2014, and they were permitted to select Austin Matthews, I guess that was 2015. Is that like, 'cause everybody's usually yelling about the fix being in. - Yeah, I think. - Where are you on the fix? - No, I think the fix would have been in for Chicago if the fix was in anywhere, I understand. 'Cause this is always the argument of fixing, is does Batman want to fix it to create a behemoth, or does he want to fix it to keep something alive? Like, are you creating a super soldier, or are you giving somebody penicillin? And I think that if you're gonna fix it, you go with the Chicago route, and you got the one two, and it's, you know, the Canadian kids in Chicago and it's moving before, yadda yadda yadda, and yeah. - We have a little bit of a history with Macklin's celebration, we saw him at the World Juniors, it's like one of the more disappointing World Junior teams of our lifetime psychic. - Yeah, okay, it's all so funny. - It is also so funny saying that sentence, every single year you get older on this earth, like a very disappointing World Junior's year, it's like, okay, yeah, sure. - I mean, it was. - No, no, you're not wrong, it's just like, I-- - I mean, we've all done this, it's just like-- - They didn't lose the Kazakhstan as well, but that was the most in our lifetime, obviously. - Mm-hmm. - Yeah. - It was just pointing. - Nick Andrew Popping, walking through that door. Nigel Dawes, you know, he plays there, that's the joke. - Anyways, so I am sure he's gonna be fine, although I will get to a little point of historic reference, is that good? - I don't, like this is coming off the corner of a yard. Lottery, it's like, it's hard to get juiced up for Macklin's celebrating, despite the fact that he is, yeah, the obvious and clear number one overall selection has been for months and months and months and months and months, if not a year. It's cool, I guess, that he has the Sharks' connection. He played for the Sharks' junior team in that he has a Bay Area connection, that his dad, Rick, is currently vice president of player health and performance for the Golden State Warriors. All well and good. - I, sorry, not like it was not one of those draft waters where I was like, gotta tune in, I'm on pins and needles, are the San Jose Sharks gonna win? And is this like the obvious changing of the guard in San Jose for this obvious generational player? Just didn't feel like that yesterday. - Changing of the guard would mean someone's guarding the gates there and they've just been going. Come in, ransack us, please, who would like Thomas hurdle? Unfortunately, Logan Couture, you're trapped here forever. There is no guard there now. You're right though, this is, you know, I went back to, I was looking at all the other first overall picks and when was the last time the Shane Wright draft was a weird one because he was this de facto, he was supposed to be number one and then it just got weird. He slides all the way to four, the Canadians takes a lot of coffee. - I know, it was tough. I was gutted though that he wasn't gonna go to Montreal, so now I can just cheer for Burlington's own Shane Wright. Good luck, bud. I hope the Nolan Patrick is not strong in you. But when you look at this draft, it's just so weird 'cause even the other ones that, you know, Alexi Laffringer wasn't quite on the McDavid sip but he was closer to that than Celebrini feels. I think part of it was that Laffringer did have a big, I don't know if they won goal but I remember Laffringer having a lot of like, ooh, this guy's a man moments at the world juniors. We didn't see that from Celebrini and that doesn't mean anything for him. I don't think as a player but I think he's properly cast in the kind of diet number one picks. You hear us talk to Bucala and the times we brought it up with him throughout the year, he goes, yes, this is a fine player but this isn't your 100 point super stud guy. I'm not saying he can never be that but I don't think that's what the sharks should expect to be getting here. They're not getting caught up at art 'cause he ain't that guy. What kind of do for a bust though? - Okay. - Slafkowski, he can't count. - No, he scored 20 goals this year. - No, okay. - Okay, like maybe he scored 20 goals though, right? Like considering where he was the season ago, he scored 20 goals. You mentioned Laffringer, like he's having a bit of a moment in the postseason right now. - Laffordier is actually gonna be the number one pick who has a super underwhelming regular season resume but every other playoff season he turns into this dude, so it doesn't matter. - Sure, but like we're grading on the Nail Yacobaw bust scale, right? Like that's a bust, a busty bust, a breed. - Yes. - That was 12 years ago, 13 years before that, Patrick Stephan. - Oh, look at you. - In 1999, aren't we like, if these things work in a cycle or are we at the point where we pour over these guys so much now, and I guess the NFL would be the opposite example that you can still swing and a miss, yeah. Big time, that guy's at the tippy top of the draft, but aren't we like, yeah. I mean, it's only two examples, but like that's, that's pretty consistent about a dozen years or so between first overall picks being complete, like not washed out, but pretty damn close in the case of Yacobaw and, yeah, Stephan too, man. Like that, aren't we due for the first overall pick that just stinks? - No, you're right, we are, we are due. I think that the expectations are what's going to, like, is he going to get the same grace as Slafkowski and three with, because I think part of the Slafkowski is he wasn't supposed to be the first overall pick. It was a bit of surprise. He was so young that everyone immediately, and I don't think there's a problem with the player taking two or three years to catch their stride, but the, the, the tenor immediately seem to be, hey, don't expect anything from this kid. He's not caught up a dart, or I know caught up a dart wasn't even here yet, but he's not going to be this super special player. So you have to treat him with kid gloves, almost. And I just wonder if Celebrini will be treated in the same way. This, you know, he wasn't the captain of Canada, but it's like, this is a Canadian super stud. This isn't a guy who comes from Slovakia who had a lot of points at the U-18s. It's different expectations. Now he's going to a God awful shark's team. The other thing that I wonder, and, you know, I suppose he might have been asked about this, let's lay it a good of check, but we sure he's coming out. We're sure he's going to sign with the sharks. If I were him, I could easily see a world where you go back to BU, you do the kale macar thing, you get to maybe go, I mean, it's not going to be Olympics 'cause NHL players are going now. You get to play at the world. You have another world junior year. I don't think it is a guarantee. And then if that happens, we feel very differently about the player as well, 'cause we have another year of the hype building of him outside of the NHL. But yeah, I think you're, I think you're definitely right. We're due for a clunker. I just think that we've now got to a point where, when it is a definitive number one and there is no wiggle off of that, there's a reason there was wiggle off of Shane Wright, okay? I think we're seeing it. You, when you look at it with Celebrini and, you know, hey, I suppose anything could happen between now and the draft, I don't think there's going to be the wiggle off him. And I think that when that happens, that is kind of proof enough, that enough cross checkers, I don't think we're going to see the Nail Yakupov bus. - Yakupov was pretty definitive though, that he was going first overall. - That was also over a decade ago now, to your point. I just think that we are, you think that scouting has changed enough and that we're smarter, that we could identify the bus that was Nail Yakupov better, that there will never be another Nail Yakupov. I mean, hey, can I work with, say, I was on that because Morgan Riley was my pick. So first overall in that draft, it turns out correct. - So here's the problem with that or not the problem, but I think this is part of where Nail Yakupov being the definitive number one, was less about Nail Yakupov. Can I just rhyme off to you? The top five players for North America and Europe. Nail Yakupov, Ryan Murray, Mikhail Gregorenko, Alex Gelsheniak, yes, this is still the North American list. And Morgan Riley, Cody Cece was right behind him at six, if that makes you feel any better. On the Euro side, you got some good players there, like Philip Forsberg is a good player. Guy was not going to go number one overall. Tavu Terevinin, another good player. Hampus Lindholm, very good player. Thomas Hurdle, very good player. So you look at it and these are all guys. So the Yakupov draft, he's number one almost by default. You look at the other guys there. It's like Ryan Murray, a stay at home defenseman, and then a bunch of other guys who've had super underwhelming careers. I think that so much of that is that there just wasn't, again, if Morgan Riley was the number one overall pick, we wouldn't call him a bust, but we'd be throwing him into the mix of that, not a bust, but he wouldn't feel good about him as a number one overall selection in the draft. - You would talk about that not being a great draft, yeah. - But I just, what I say to that is there's no, it's not lost on me that there is no stud that, oh, he went to, and they just completely missed on. No, we wouldn't have been calling him a bust if it was Philip Foresburg, or, but if it was Alex Guchenniak, we certainly would. First overall pick, boy, we definitely would be saying that. Cody Cece, again, he wasn't gonna go first overall, but this is the sixth ranked North American skater heading into that draft. Yeah, it kind of makes sense. The Yakupov was like, wow, this guy's so good. Apparently not, 'cause none of them were, it's kind of the point I'm trying to make. - Yeah, we'll see. - Yeah, you know, back to Macklin celebrating. - Who knows what happens with me? - I mean, even if he, you know, whether he plays in San Jose this upcoming season or he goes back to BU, he'll be out of our minds for a year. - Forever. - Forever. - Yeah, until maybe the sharks are good. And then you have to tune in in the post-season. - Would you have had any, and the answer to this is like, I realize the best answer I'm hoping to get here is like, yeah, sure, 1%. Would you have felt any differently if the Blackhawks landed him and you had this like one, two punch of, of bard and then, I think the other thing that would have worked out well for Salabrini and that is he immediately becomes second fiddle. Like he's no longer the first of all pick. Oh my God, so much easier, but. - It would have been easier for him. - I mean, bard is already kind of appointment television when he's not getting trucked in the middle of the ice and breaking his face open. - Bubble bard. - Yeah, I mean, that would have been intriguing and would have like, I guess, raised the specter of a potential massive trade where you move one of them. I would think the more likely scenarios, like you try and do the cane and tape thing again. - Yeah, as they say, they have, they'd be pretty tough in Chicago to say, guys, we cannot, we're seeing what the Leafs are doing. We can't build around generational forwards. It cannot work. - But yeah, I don't know. Sharks are the most underwhelming spot, I think. I mean, the Ducks would have been same deal. - Yes, at least. - It's the Pacific time zone, it's like. - It couldn't matter, Lance, even if it's the jacket. I will say it is at least nice. Like if he has to go to an irrelevant franchise, it's great that he has like the tie there, good for them. - Good, good for you. - Wish you well, hardly knew you. All right, so the canes are down to Cobb. The Rangers never lost this postseason six and ohs, takes double overtime for them to go up to nothing on the Carolina Hurricanes. - Tangle from Crider. - Yeah, shout out to our American brethren who almost missed potential game winner at the end of regulation as the TNT broadcast flipped over to the Dallas broadcast for like 20 seconds. - Two-sexy. - Woo, they were very relieved that the game winning goal was not scored over that span. Obviously the canes can come back. Obviously, like we're talking about thin margins in these first two games. And I would think that the Rangers aren't gonna run the table. It's 16 and oh this postseason. - I don't think so. - Although, Shastirkin looks pretty good moments during this series. - And Rod Brindomor also said the thing that like, hey, everything's coming together, it's no big deal. We got it figured out after Kevin Weeks was obviously like nudged by his agent. Hey, maybe you wanna let this out there that we actually haven't signed a contract here in Carolina. Oh, and there could be a massive vacancy this offseason. And then lo and behold, the next day we get that statement. But again, nothing officially officialized yet as you would imagine during the middle of a postseason run in which the Carolina Hurricanes are hoping to win the Stanley Cup. - Yeah. - And the Leafs haven't even announced they're opening yet which we can maybe talk about as well when Friday's media availability has to happen before Friday, right? Like obviously, Leafs, if they're gonna fire Sheldon Keefe, like when does that have to happen? - I don't see any, it's a nasty thing to do but it's pro sports, if he's under contract to leave him twisting in the wind is nasty. But why did they, what did they owe him? - They don't owe him anything. Well, they owe him two more years of money. Right, so nothing other than that. - Yeah, but also wouldn't you wanna get ahead of this hiring cycle? Anyways, okay. - You should make up your mind. They just don't owe it to him, I think, is what I'm saying. - If you've made up your mind, I don't know what would stop you from pulling the trigger. - I think the thing is that I don't know that this is the case but I'm reading the tea leaves. You wonder if they've made up their mind and that it's gonna be Sheldon Keefe or Rod Brindemore. - I mean, if that's the case and Craig Barouba, like sitting there on pins and needles, thinking it's gonna be me, they're gonna pick me. - Well, it is also possible that they say it's gonna be Keefe or Brindemore. Like they could say, sorry, it's gonna be Brindemore, Brindemore, Keefe in that order. They could say that as well. And again, if that's the case, it is nasty, it is not being kind to your employee but I mean, say it with me madmen, that's what the money's for. - Yeah, I mean, if you're gone after Rod Brindemore, either way, it doesn't matter what Sheldon Keefe's contractual status is at that point. It doesn't matter what Rod Brindemore's contractual status is at that point. I mean, it probably doesn't and head coach is not subject to the CBA. And it's probably not great professional practice to be inquiring about a coach who is under contract, which I assume Rod Brindemore is like most standard player contracts until the end of June. - That's what I would think. - But I don't think anybody would really, in the grand scheme of things, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I need to talk to somebody who would know more who's been in the executive suite. But if the Carolina hurricanes are eliminated in two more games and you're the Toronto Maple Leafs and you make like back channel intimations about Rod Brindemore's willingness to take more money than Dun Dun is going to give him in Carolina 'cause you can. Maybe you want to give him the Mike Babcock contract or maybe you think like, things have been inflating since the Mike Babcock contract. You want to give him more than that, despite the fact that he doesn't have a Stanley Cup ring, but I still think, as a coach. Yeah, I'd maybe disagree with this. Like give me Rod Brindemore over Craig Marooby, like seven days a week. - It's not even close. The one caveat I have to that, and I think this is an important one that has kind of not been talked about enough, is do you want to make somebody do something that they don't want to do? Well, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. He's not stepping in to be an accountant to KPMG or whatever. He is stepping in to arguably, no, not arguably. - The single most pressure pack job a head coach in hockey can take. - Also the best, right? - Okay, like I can see kind of both sides of that. Okay, just stick with me here. - Sure. - That if he does not want to do that, if he says, I love life in Carolina, this is what I want to do. Yeah, I'll use the Rangers or the Leafs for leverage, but ultimately I want to go to, I want to stay in Carolina. It's quiet, my family likes it here. I get asked a tough question, and then I just throw up 235 on the bench and no one says boo to me again. And then all of a sudden the money just creeps to a point to where he can't say no. And then he's in a spot that he doesn't necessarily want to be at. Get off to a bad start. Pressures of Toronto start ramping up. I just worry about forcing a guy, 'cause the Leafs do have the financial might to do that, especially over, I mean, they could do that to anybody, especially over a franchise like Carolina. I worry about the idea of forcing someone into a spot they don't want to be in. I think this had happened with players before, like I think of the Red Sox traded for Karl Crawford. Maybe the thing is, is he just stunk, hated being there, was adamant about it, said I don't like it, didn't want to come, and guess what? They paid the money and he stunk. I do worry about forcing people into situations that don't want to be in 'cause of the money. It is true, like that is what the money's for. And I, that is very much my lens through which I view pro sports, but money is not everything. And if Rod Brindemore, he's not like Tom Dunden's like, "Here's 20 cents." - Yeah, no, he's not giving him six bucks in a company gas card. - Yeah, I mean, it's not gonna be what the Leafs can offer him, but if he says, "You know what, that, okay, "there's only so many yachts you can buy." Right, like, I-- - Oh, but that's the difference though. We do this all the time, like, "Oh, what's the difference between a million and a billion?" This isn't a player looking at Ado. I want to take a 750 haircut to be in a better spot. The chasm that the Leafs, if they want to, can get to. - So what, if what you're saying is true, and he's like, "I'm gonna be miserable in Toronto," which I would, again, think it's an amazing job. I, it is an amazing, it's like almost too stupid to talk about whether the Leafs head coach job is a good one. It's amazing. You get paid the most, and yeah, you gotta answer some questions, but every, you're protected at every turn, you can say whatever you want. And there's a layer now of separation between you and some guys that are gonna feel the most. Like, I think the Brendan Shanahan Heat era has just really started to begin. Plus, yeah, you're gonna be extent. We know that they're not ever gonna do the thing that they did with Kyle Dubas again, where you go into a lame duck ear. The bar is astronomically low, that Sheldon Keef won one round. I think it's a spectacular, beautiful, awesome job. - I think we should probably talk about this tomorrow 'cause I don't disagree with what you're saying, but I think there's a whole other picture to paint as well. - Okay, we'll talk about that. We'll also get back into the Blue Jays, and if this thing is over, where did it all go wrong? That and more next is the fan Morning Show continues, Ben Anis, Brent Gunning, Sportsnet 5.90, the fan.
