[MUSIC] Fan Morning Show Sports 759, the fan, Ben Anis, Brent Gunning. Blue Jays update today before they return home for a series against the twins. Then it's the Baltimore Orioles in town. Their first taste of the best team in the American League East and one of the best teams in baseball. The Phillies are by record the best team in baseball. So took care of them, no problem, five, three yesterday in the finale. And yeah. >> Did you see Scott Hartnell at the park, by the way? >> No. >> Yeah, he was hanging out. He just looked like he was just living the dream. He had like the Bryce Harper, like Philly fanatic headband on. And yeah, it was just a sight to be seen so. >> I miss. >> Good job, Hartsey. >> Yeah, friend of the show. >> Yeah, Scott Hartnell, well done. >> Yeah, so beat the Phillies, that's good, it's better than losing. Still, it's been a rather disappointing start to the season for the Blue Jays in 17 and 20. >> Or is it? Okay, consider the following, okay. They have, like by Fangrafts Ward, I was going to say the one of the worst bullpens. By Fangrafts Ward, the worst bullpens. >> Okay. >> In Major League Baseball. >> Some metric, yeah. >> My many metrics, a bottom three offense in all the baseball, I think we can save anybody. >> You can use as fancy or as dumb a number. >> If you want it doesn't turn over. >> Runs per game, slugging percentage, OPS, it's all very bad. >> Yeah, even, so I think the starting pitching is quite good and Chris Bassett. Boy, we haven't talked about him enough about yesterday's performance. Against all those tough left-handed hitters, he was great getting into the seventh inning, six and a third, only giving up three hits, six strikeouts. I know the ERA is over five and that's part of this, like the starter's ERA is despite the fact that I think it's pretty clearly the best part of this Blue Jays team. >> Yes. >> It might be damning with faint praise because they're like middle of the pack, 14th I believe. >> They're right in the meaty middle of Major League Baseball when it comes to ERA from their starting pitching, that there are only three games under 500 having one of the worst offenses in all of baseball. The worst bullpen in all of baseball and only a mediocre starting rotation when it comes to ERA. Isn't it incredible that this team has not put forth one of the worst records in all of baseball? If I just presented that to you, you'd be like, that's like an abomination. That is like they're having the Astros conversations that are taking place right now or they're having like maybe not the White Sox, but like the offense is comparable to what the White Sox have put forth and they've been shut out seven times this season. It is remarkable that, yeah, you can't win the division in the first two months of baseball. You can come close to losing it. It's pretty incredible. They haven't lost it yet. >> Yeah, you're right. When you when you lay out all those facts, there is an easy, easy road map to this having been an infinitely worse team to start the year. I know that that makes you all wins out there saying it should have been worse than this. Yeah, it should have quite, quite honestly. And I think that's the other thing is that when you think of teams with worst record or maybe performing above you, like this isn't a team that's lost a whole bunch of games because of the pen to your point, the pen has struggled. But I don't know that that because they can't score, it's not like they're up in all these games and the pen's blowing it for them. It is a confounding start to the season from this team, both in terms of what you've got from some of the key pillars of it and what it's all added up to be worth for the Blue Jays. >> I gave them too much credit on the starting vision of their 19th and baseball in starters ERA, which is jarring. Like that's so your bottom half in starters ERA, your dead last in fangarabs war when it comes to the bullpen and your bottom three in baseball in just about every offensive statistic. It's remarkable. The Blue Jays only find themselves three games under 500 as they return home for a series against the twins tomorrow. Let's talk to former Blue Jays general manager, host of the new podcast, the brush back with JP. It's JP Rachardi kind enough to join us this morning. How's it going JP? >> Good. How are you guys doing? >> Doing very well. I want to start with this with you JP because George Springer has been a great player throughout the course of his entire career. He's been a World Series MVP, he's had some great moments as a Blue Jay, but he's at an advanced age for baseball, not for life, like he's a young man when it comes to life. But for baseball, yeah, when you start hitting your middle 30s, there's a lot of evidence to suggest that the swing speed slows down. It's harder to catch up to fastballs, which, yeah, it shows up in the numbers for him. He's only been a league average hitter over the course of last season. He's been worse than that to start this year, had a nice game yesterday with the base hit in a stolen base and scored a big run for them. But pretty clearly, this is a diminished version of the guy the Blue Jays were hoping to get and that's kind of the nature of free agency. But they continue to stick with him at the top of the lineup as the lead-off man. And I understand being patient, it's only May, but like where does the balance exist between being patient and being stubborn? >> Well, I think actually that's a good question. Obviously, he's a veteran player and they paid him a lot of money, so they're not going to walk away from him. I think at this point, you just got to be flexible in your lineup and figure out a spot to get him where he can get a little bit more comfortable, or maybe get him out of the lead-off spot up in the order and just slide him down a little lower. I think if you go to these veteran players and you explain to them, you're trying to help them instead of having to be a blow to their pride. I think they realize you're trying to do the right thing for him and I don't think Springer would have a problem with that. He's had a great career and he's a good player. I don't think he's done yet, but he's just scuffling and the whole lineup's scuffling. So there's a lot of juggling that they'd have to do, but I think in his case, it's probably better off to get him out of the lead-off spot. >> Yeah, that's the thing we've been continuing to hit at. Obviously, every player's different, baseball more so than any other sport. These guys are such creatures of habit in terms of their game day preparation and just every day being at the park. And I can only imagine being a lead-off hitter that half the games you play in, you're literally seeing in the first pitch of the game. It maybe does have a bit of an impact, but yeah, I'm with both of you. You mentioned, we're talking here about how you react to one player. How does a front office, I won't say philosophy, but view of its team evolve over the course of a season. I mean, we're a little more than 20% into the season. I don't know that teams are doing complete 180s on how they felt about their team heading into the year versus what they've seen so far, but at what point in a season do you think a front office really has to kind of reevaluate? Do we need to change courses this more of a stay the course year? Are we buyers? Are we sellers? At what point in a season does that kind of happen or maybe it's constant evaluation and there's no kind of one point of demarcation? Yeah, I think it's hard to answer that question because it's such a long year. I used to try to think of a season and, you know, April, May, June, July, August, September. So you break out of the gate, you try to see where you are by May, Memorial Day. You know, maybe if there's something available and you can make a move, you make a move. Then you see where you are at the all-star break and you just keep reevaluating where you are. And at that point, you're looking at your minor league players who are making progress that might be able to come up and help the big club. You're looking at potential big salaries that you might be able to move or trades you might be able to make. The constant evaluation of your team, I don't think you could just sit there and say, "Look at the Padres." I mean, they jumped right away and obviously Miami has decided that they're not going to be in it. They traded their best hitter. So I think, you know, it just depends on what team you are and how you've built your team. But the Blue Jays have been built to win, so I can't see them. I don't know what message it sends if they start selling off pieces at this point. They were still early in the season, but there are some alarming things happening in there. They line up that have got me scratching my head. And if it continues by the all-star break like that, I don't know how much longer you're going to be able to hang with some of those guys. Yeah, let's explore that, JP, because yeah, this is, it's maybe nobody expected it to be this bad offensively, but nobody should be surprised that this team is struggling to score considering that was their issue last season and they did not a whole lot to address that issue in the off season. I rattled that off some of the underlying stats surrounding this team and only being three games under 500 is a kind of a compliment to the way this team has played so far. And you pay attention to this team, like is there a reason to believe there's better baseball in there or are you really like looking at the possibility of a sell-off down the line here? Well, the two alarming things for me with the team is I could take the up and down with some of the other guys in the lineup, but two of the alarming things that Guerrero and Bischette, I'm really shocked at how poorly that they have swing the bat so early in the season. And you know, Vlad, it seems like it's been an overflow from last year and that's a little concerning to me because I really thought he was going to have a month to the year. There's still a lot of baseball left, so we don't want to write him up, it's just alarming at this point. And Bischette just got off to a slow, slow start. His history is, I believe he'll bounce back and be fine, but that engine goes behind those two guys. Every team is built around a couple of players in their lineup that make that engine go. And you know, if you're, your ancillary players are not doing what they're supposed to do, you kind of, okay, I can deal with that. But when your major players aren't, you know, you need those guys to carry the lineup. And that's the biggest concern for me right now with the Blue Jays. They don't have one guy that's in their starting lineup with an 800 OPS. They're, they're minus 44 and run differential. That's alarming to me. That's like really, really below the bar for offensive production. So I think those are the two guys you're going to have to really keep an eye on. And I think as they go the Blue Jays ago, I've said that all along. I think that pitching's been good. You know, I know that you can say this and that. But this, you got three starters with, with the arrays in the mid threes and under. You think about, you get three out of five guys to go to the mound and they give you a shot every night. That's pretty good. So yeah, I'm not in total panic phase with the Blue Jays, but I'm getting really concerned about where they're going. No, the Blue Jays are, they're, they're pitching is going to be good enough to kind of hold them in this. And you know, just to get back to what you said about Bo and Vlad there, I think you're right to mention the point about Bo, his track record is that it kind of, it doesn't matter how slow the start is. He's found a way to be up near the American League at the top of the hit board when it's all said and done. But you're, you're right to have questions about Vlad, not that you need me to agree with you on that, but I'll agree with you there. But what does it do to an org when, I mean, we don't need to dance around it, when they sat there envisioning the pie in the sky, best case scenario for this, it was Boba Shett and Vladimir Grode, Jr. being all stars. But Vlad, he'd be in a borderline MVP. What does it do to an org when you have to have a bit of a reset? And again, no one's pouring dirt on Vladimir Grode, Jr. No one says he can't be a fine bat, but I think it's fair to have questions. If he can be that true elite elite, you know, top 10 bat in the league, a true difference maker, what does it do to an org when you have to have a little bit of a change of course with, with a guy at, at such an important position? I don't mean first base is an important position, but your, your most dangerous hit or obviously is well, you know, listen, you could say that about every team, that's, you, you obviously believe in the place and, and that's a good play. You just not having a good start, but that's a good play. Just not having a good start, but your team is built around those guys. It's no different than Freddie Freeman and Mookie Betts and Otani. I mean, they're the main cog of the Dodgers. It's no look at Atlanta, the first baseman really, really scufflin right now. The track record is that he, yeah, the track record is that he'll hit. So every team is built on what they think the lineup should be and who's a good player. And if one or two guys scuffle, it just really gets magnified. I think in the Blue Jays case, those two guys carry so much of that lineup that when they're struggling, everything gets magnified. If, you know, Bijio was struggling, you wouldn't be having these conversations. Because, you know, I know G.S. is having a pretty good year. I'm just using him as an example. Kirk, you know, different guys in the line of a scufflin, we're not having these conversations, but when you've got good players, I know, you know, when I was in Toronto, and if Delgado was struggling or Vernon Wells was struggling, that was very glaring because we needed those guys. Well, so, so let me just jump in there. I think, I think just a finer point on my question is you're right. If those guys are scuffling and you're right to mention Betts and Freeman and all those, but there's a track record with all those players. My question isn't about when Vlad is scuffling. My question is, what if Vlad is, and again, I don't want to say this like he's not a major league player or anything like that, but what if he is merely the 10th best first baseman in baseball as an offensive player, somewhere around there, that does that not kind of change the way they have to look at building this team because, you know, Vlad being what we all think of as the best version of him, him and Bo, yeah, that can carry a team, but if Vlad is closer to what we've seen, then does it have to kind of change the way you look at building this thing out in the future? Well, I mean, that's an open ended question. You either believe in Vlad Guerrero or you don't. And if you don't believe in him, then you don't extend them and you trade him. That's what you do. That comes down to personal preference of how the organization is run. You know, I think the guy is going to is a good player. He's obviously been an all-star. You're not an all-star because you're a bad player. He's just off to a tough start. I think he'll come around. He may not hit 40 home runs. I thought he would. I thought he'd be an American League MVP candidate this year. Maybe it's just not going to work out for him this year, but he's only 25, 26. If you told me I could trade that guy to Cincinnati or Cleveland or whoever, those teams would be jumping up and down to get a guy like that because they know it's going to come at some point. He's not going to be the hitter he is today, his whole career. He's just off to a bad start, but the problem is he's such a vital part of that offense that it gets magnified, and that's where the struggles and the frustration comes in. It's not a matter of him being a good player. He is a good player, just not playing well. Yeah, the Boboshette start, he was actually worse to start the season in 2022, which is insane. He's been one of the worst hitters in baseball this year. He was worse in 2022, finished the year at an OPS over 800, and the American League leader in hits. So it's hard to be too concerned about the overall season for Boboshette, but when you're prone to these types of starts, that's also not great, JP, because, yeah, you can really put your team behind the eight ball, especially when this is not expected and wasn't expected to be a great offensive team. It was supposed to be built on the strength of the middle of your order. You just answered your own question. The lineup is built around two guys. It's not a Dodger lineup or a brave lineup that's pretty thick, one through seven. You could carry a guy when he's scuffling, but when these two guys are scuffling, it's so glaring because they don't have the overall depth in their lineup, so therein lies the problem. If Mookie Betts goes cold for two weeks, well, Freeman and the rest of the team is probably going to be hot, you know, Olsen's struggling in Atlanta, but the rest of the team is hot. So it's kind of cyclical when you have a deep lineup. This is not a deep lineup, and that's where the problem lies. Mm-hmm. David Schneider has been a real fine for this team, 28th rounder, and his minor league results just dictated he got a shot in the Major League's boy. Did he make good use of that time last season with an incredible first 35 games into Major League Baseball. He's carried it over this season, 30 games, and the OPS is still high, 858, and he's got the power potential, got the on-base potential. How long does it take guys with limited pedigrees like that? I mean, limited. That's 28th round. That's pretty limited. How long does it take guys like that through performance to change front office perception? Well, look, here's the sad pot. That guy wouldn't even be drafted today, and today's draft. The draft only goes 20 rounds, and that's what's sad about what's happened to our game. Guys like Schneider don't even get a chance, and they're Major League Bliss, and that's a whole 'nother conversation for a whole 'nother day, but that guy has taken advantage of his opportunity. You know, great draft by the Blue Jays, number one, number two, you have to have the opportunity to play these guys in the minor leagues, which they did. So he's getting at bats in the minor leagues, and he's proving what the scouts are in him, and he's getting an opportunity to get at bats in the minor leagues. So obviously, he's building up his resume as he plays through the minor leagues, and he gets an opportunity to show the Blue Jays front office what he can do. They thought enough of him to give him a chance in the big leagues, and he's taken advantage of it. You know, there's stories like this all through baseball, and the sad part is we're taking those opportunities away from every kind of, because we limited the draft to 20 rounds. And there's a lot of good baseball players who are not getting opportunities to play baseball. And this guy, thank God, is getting that opportunity to take an advantage of it. I love stories like that. That was great about baseball. Yeah, it's great. You know, he's using a glove he found, and the lost in foul nuts, an incredible, incredible story. Here we go, JP. I think fans love it when in the first game of that Philly series, the manager embodies the frustration that the fan base is feeling. And yeah, it was a questionable call, but like John Schneider gets ejected from that game and has the freak out because he's feeling the pressure, and he's feeling the disappointment and the frustration of this entire season. Well, I tend to view that in the same way, like the Gene Hackman thing in Hoosiers, right? Like where it's almost performative. Like, is that a real thing, like, can, can teams benefit from a manager doing that? I don't know if they benefit from it. And unfortunately, once again, in our game, the only argument, there's very few places where you can argue now, you know, you think about it, everything is instant replay. What are you going to do? Come on and argue with the guy behind the camera. So there's only so many places these guys can argue. And I think John's just showing those guys, hey, listen, you know, I'm fighting like you're fighting with Scotland, but, you know, I got you back and listen, it's hard to be a major league manager. And it's hard when the team is not playing well. And I'm sure the players are failing the same stress and pressure that he's feeling. But, you know, more so than having their back, maybe he just wanted to get a few things up and just, you know, kind of let it go a little bit. But, you know, nice win by him yesterday, but I look at the Blue Jays. I know I heard a little bit of the intro, but they're already way behind as far as teams in the wild card. I know it's early, but they're already seven and a half games behind the Orioles. And the Yankees are right behind them. So they're digging a little bit of a hole for themselves. And I think they got to put a tourniquet in this thing pretty fast. And by Memorial Day, you know, get this where you're five games under and you're, I mean, you're over 500 and you may be five games within both the wild card and the division because you don't want this thing to get too far away from you. Yeah. And it could easily with a good twins team that's played really well in town this weekend. And then the Orioles have to them. We will see. Rubber going to meet the road very soon. You can follow the brush back with JP at Rachardi, JP on Twitter again. The podcast is the brush back with JP, which you can listen to, wherever you listen to a podcast, JP Rachardi, former Blue Jays GM. Thanks for doing this, JP. Appreciate it. Yeah. Okay. Thanks for having me, guys. I appreciate it. All right. It's JP Rachardi. So yeah, he's seeing the same things that you're seeing that it's concerning. Yeah. I'm doubly concerning when your only hope offensively is not entirely on the strength of two guys, but mostly on the strength of two guys. Yeah. I mean, you could hope a 40 year old Justin Turner or aged dead George Springer. Yeah. You want to hope on those guys and I'm sorry, sorry. Of course, of course, babe Schneider. Yeah. But those like David Schneider, Justin Turner, they've held up their end of the bargain. Yes, Jano. Same deal. Yep. I just have to mention that. It's like, I feel like he is everyone's favorite Blue Jay, but I feel like I like to mention when he does good things. I like them at the dish. Danny Jansen. Yeah. Yeah. Slamo Jano. Yeah. It's a thing and he has it. Yeah. It's funny how, listen, this is no disparagement, but it is funny how in all the pro sports guys in their walk-years tend to be amazing. It's truly remarkable. Yeah. And it happens at all stratospheres of the profession. Like it's happening with Danny Jansen. It happened with Aaron Judge. Right. Like I said, I don't mean like I'm not saying Danny Jansen is the bottom of that list. Like there are Shirley players and baseball worse than him, but it's just he ain't Aaron Judge. No, he's not. I mean, if he wants to become him in his walk here, it'd be expensive for the Blue Jays and that they wouldn't sign him, but I think we'd all gladly sign up for that. Yeah. It's going to be tough getting Danny Jansen into the lineup as much as they want because of the position he plays and because of his propensity to get injured. Anyways, last thing I wanted to hit on before we take a break is JP Rachardi doing the thing that I think is so pervasive in Major League Baseball and it's still not changing despite the results is that everybody still thinks this Vladimir of junior thing is going to happen in, I guess, like I'll defer to the people who've spent a lifetime in baseball, but just nobody other than like I've seen the pundits out there like not even just in Toronto. Some people that are like podcast host journalists, but don't have a front office background are also saying like, yeah, what if this guy's just like good, but not great, but anybody that's worked in any capacity in baseball still thinks that he could be great or former players. Any former players as well. It's like, oh, but what the guy, the guy destined for Cooperstown. Do you have a question about him? Weird. Yeah. And just be clear, I agree with me, not necessarily them, but they it's when when so many people that have so much skin in the game, but have seen so many things continue to believe it, to believe it, to believe it, it does make me want you often have these moments, mostly surrounding Davis Schneider, where you think you're taking crazy pills, I believe is your your term you like to use. That's me every time I talk to a baseball person above Vlad, they they're all in agreement. I know and I, I, I think I'm right a lot. I really do. But even I cannot sit here and go, well, all baseball's wrong, I think, but I think it. It's also a tough sport where they play every day and it's just like physically impossible to watch every team's games every day and to see what we've seen here being as close to it. Right. But even, you know, the people that do watch him every day, it's funny that you're right to mention that, but there's also no sport that if you truly were a sicko that you could sit there and power through every game in a single day, like baseball, because it's just like, all right, let me show me every pitch for every player appearance. Let's go. Yeah. I don't think anybody's doing that though. Just be clear. Yeah. Even you. No, majorly baseball does like this condensed game thing. Yeah. It should be like super condensed game where it's just like not even the all the pitches. It's just like the result of the pitches every single pitch or every single at bat of the entire game. Like how long would that you couldn't you watch a whole game in five minutes? I was going to say, like J's and 30 is this that could be J's in 30 seconds. Yeah. Anyways. All right. We have another Toronto FC giveaway for our listeners today. This time for Saturdays match up against New York City FC seven 30 PM BMO field to enter for a chance to win these tickets, text today's code word New York to five ninety five ninety again. Today's code word is New York, Texas into five ninety five ninety right now to enter for your chance to win tickets to Saturday's game. If you don't win with us, you can secure your tickets to Saturdays match a ticket master dot C a more details at sportsnet.ca/590 when we come back, your friend of mine, Luke Gazdick as the fan morning show continues, Ben Annus, Brent Gunning, sportsnet five ninety four you get your podcasts fan morning show sportsnet five ninety the fan Ben Annus, Brent Gunning tough little game one for the Edmonton Oilers in Vancouver yesterday, low in a four one lead, Stuart Skinner, yeah, you did a different deal game one, but yeah, Stuart Skinner not looking so great, nope, and see love not looking so great either, but they just like stopped allowing the Oilers to have shots, which is smart move, especially with Conor McDavid. It's hard to do. I feel like as well. Yep. But there you go. The underdog Canucks winning game one that the higher seat with home ice advantage underdog I mean, I'm not disagreeing, I'm not disagreeing, I'm just saying, let's talk to Luke Gazdick former NHL or hockey central analyst for sportsnet host of the mitts off podcast friend of the show. How's it going Luke? Good guys. How are you doing today? I'm doing all right. How are they doing in Edmonton? Are they freaking out after a game one loss to the underdog Canucks blowing a four one lead, they had a power play 40 seconds into the hockey game and they scored on it. How are they feeling in Edmonton today you figure? I mean, you guys were my first hit of the day. I have, I'm followed by two Edmonton ones after this. So I'll gauge how the radio is doing, but I can, I can guess that there, there's a bit of freaking out happening, but it was a weird game overall too. And I think any game, one of the playoffs, especially with the way the one went last night, I think everyone can just kind of take a breath and know that, you know, it's going to be a long series. Yeah, let's just go kind of big picture here. I expect the Oilers to bounce back. I expect them to win this series, but yeah, why not go doom and gloom. We do it about the Leafs all time might as well do it about somebody else. Let's say that this is where they're, they're run fall short. You know, maybe it's a long series, six, seven games. How much of a panic is setting in in Edmonton? I mean, you know, they've gone to a conference final. They've won round. So it's not to say that they haven't done anything, but they also have a Leon dry side all contract that needs to get done. McDavid has one more year after that, you know, every year for a team that has guys like McDavid and dry side was obviously a win now all in year. But with the dry side all contract hanging over this all and, you know, I has one more year left and I don't even think he's going to go anywhere. It's just he's going to get more expensive. How much does that increase the impetus for this to be a big, big year where the Oilers make a run? Oh, yeah, it's going to be concerned central if, if it happens in this, in this round, especially, you know, being the party had like this is probably the clearest path that they've had to at least the Western Conference final in you get an LA team that you just seem to have their number against not holding anything against Ben or Nashville. But this isn't Vegas or you know, a team in past years that is that has been a really scary intimidating one for them. And I don't know, this is this is a year for me where it's at least Stanley Cup final. You said it and I've said it like a bunch of times before is that any year you have these two is a go year like it is it is push your chips in any year you have these two players and I'm not really sure how they're feeling about everything. The way I have always seen it is they're a package deal. I don't think they go anywhere separately and I truly do believe they stay in Edmonton, but there there has to be a little bit of forward progress. So I think this thing has to move forward at least to finally winning the West and maybe a shot at a Stanley Cup or else there's going to be some big decisions to make. And then that's what I think you'll really start to see some panic set in about around oil country. I mean, we assume big decisions are coming here in Leafland, but until I actually see it happen, I have my doubts because we were saying pretty similar things after last season that brought the head coach back. They eventually fired the GM, but that was after he said like, I don't know about this. I'll fired himself. I don't know being the GM of the Toronto Maple Leafs will have to see it. And Brent Jan is like, Oh yeah, we'll see. You will see you at the door. But they didn't break up the core when they had an opportunity before the no move clauses kicked in specifically with Mitch Marner. And maybe if Kyle Dubas was in charge, they would have pulled the trigger on that last off season. But he wasn't. It was a tough spot for Brett for living who had to negotiate a contract extension for awesome Matthews. Yada, yada, yada, yada, yada. Find ourselves with yet another first round playoff exit for this team. And one more year remaining on the Mitch Marner deal. And yeah, the conversations around him waving his no move clause. Like where are you on what he might say to Brad for living if he approaches his representatives and says, Hey, we wish this had gone better. We wish you well. But like, are you willing to move on? Yeah, I mean, it's a conversation I think is definitely going to happen. I don't know, maybe I shouldn't say definitely, but I do think they're going to approach him about it. At the end of the day, he holds all the cards and I've heard some discourse on that side too about how it doesn't really matter. Like if you're Mitch, would you want to be somewhere where, you know, they don't want you or they approach you and say we want to move on? But he doesn't have to go anywhere he doesn't want to. If you're asking me, I really do think it's time for a fresh start between the team and Mitchie. I'm a fan of his. I think, you know, this is an easy place to play hockey. And I just think every now and then, you need, you know, a new place, a new opportunity. And that might be the best thing for Mitch, but it'll be really interesting to see how they approach this because at the end of the day, if he wants to take another shot at this thing and just say, Hey, listen, I'm not going anywhere. I think that no move holds a lot of power. Even if, you know, people are making the argument, why would you want to be here? He's from here. He likes it here. He holds all the cards in this situation. Yeah, he does. And, you know, I think the ultimate thing that is, I'm sure still kind of rattling around his brain when he's asked about this, it's not shambles and we didn't put them there. But it's the thing that's probably rattling around his brain is that he probably thinks that he can have better playoffs than he's had. And if he has one next year, if he wants to be a leaf, he's going to be one. Like if he has a great playoff and the team makes strides, I don't think that's what's lurking in his brain, but I imagine that's the kind of final hurdle he kind of has to get over. You know, there's been a lot of talk about Tavares as well, maybe being in a similar boat. Whether they move on from Tavares or not, could you see a world where they go kind of San Jose Sharks and it's a changing of the guard? You know, it's always so dramatic and the ripping off of the sea. It's hard to do it and it not be be insulting. Could you see a world where that happens and could maybe that play into Tavares wanting to wave his no move or not? Yeah, it'll be interesting to see what happens with JT, but regardless, I could see a changing of the torch like that. I was in Dallas for, I mean, I wasn't on the team, but I was at training camp when Mike Mandano passed it to Brendan Morrow. And then I was actually in the video room when Brendan Morrow passed it to Jamie Ben. So I got to see that process twice in, in, in person. And it was kind of a cool thing, I want to say, like, I really at that age didn't know things like that happened. I hadn't experienced anything like that before. I didn't even know it was, I don't want to say legal or possible, but I was like, Oh, really, you can, you can do that allowed. But that's, you know what? I had this conversation with someone like to, to the tee the other day that I could see this JT thing playing out if, if he ended up coming up, you know, back at maybe a reduced term, reduced price, obviously a little pay cut on the 11. I could see a situation where, yeah, maybe it goes to Austin, something like that. It's not out of the norm of things that happen. You know, I don't think he would take something like that super personally, to be honest. He's a pro. He's been around the game for a long time. And it's definitely a possibility I can see happening in the future. I think a lot of people view the conversation that Brad for Living might have with either John Tavares and Mitch Marner and asking them to wave their No Move clause through the lens of like, well, why would you want to return to this team when the fan reception around you is going to be negative if they know that you blocked a potential move and a potential, you know, getting better. This team's ability to get better or do different things. How could you do that? And I think people, whether it's fans or media, think that that's impactful to the decision that is being made by Mitch Marner and John Tavares. I mean, we just saw Mitch Marner go through a real, real tough post season where there was a lot of criticism towards him from media, both in this country and in the United States. And he's still set on Monday. It's like, we're treated like gods here. So I wonder how much of that it actually does get through. Like in the discussion of whether these guys are going to wave their No Move clause or not, like where does fan perception or like the outside noise factor in there or is it all just internal? Oh, I think it's different for every guy. To be honest, I've been on tons of teams and Edmonton was a great, a great example of that being so close to everything in terms of hearing what people say and even walking around on the street, Edmonton was crazy in terms of people would just come right up to you pretty much and tell you their opinions and thoughts on what was happening with the team. But you're just, you're so close to the media and the social media side of it that you do end up hearing a lot of it. And I've seen guys where it leads them right out of town. It really, really bothers them to the point where they're coming home every day. They're going home every day and it's frustrating and it really, really wears on them. And there's some guys who are just so carefree who either A, don't listen to it, don't hear it, don't, or B, don't care about it. It's kind of a player-to-player situation. Mitch looks like, I think it gets under Mitch's skin. You can kind of tell. He had to get a little blip earlier in the year where, you know, he said, we don't listen to you guys. And then two weeks later, he came back and said, you know, you guys said this and this or whatever about Samson, I'm like, okay, well, you're clearly listening then. But it's tough in a town like this, not for things to come through to you, whether it's friends or family. I was a bit in between on the thing, you know, it didn't bother me to an extent that it did for other people, but I just tried to stay out of it a bit. But I will tell you that I've seen some big star players get very, very bothered and take things very personally to the point where it led them straight out of town. Yeah. I mean, we've, we've, we've seen it here, like it was like before the social media era and it wasn't, I guess, him asking out, but it's like the Larry Murphy of it all. Like it's the tale as old as time. It is funny that it's Tavares and Marner that are both maybe in a similar spot here because, and I don't know, we, you know, we know as much about these guys as we know, but they certainly feel like different ends of the personality spectrum in terms of where things wear on them, how emotional they can be. And, you know, I don't say that as a knock. Like I think we want players to have emotion and care about things, but yeah, it is interesting that it seems like Tavares is certainly on one side of that pendulum and Marner on the other. If we're going to talk about emotion, and we're going to talk about a guy who hosts the mitts off podcast, I have to talk to you about the other hockey game was played last night in the, with the Panthers and Bruins there, I don't know that anybody had David Pasternak skating off the bench after challenging Matthew Kachuk to a fight there. What did you see out of that? What does it mean? I mean, we had so many Bruins culture conversations there. What does it mean that Pasternak willingly fought Kachuk well losing six one in the third period? It is awesome. Correct. Honestly. So we actually didn't see it live. We were on set prepping for prepping for our pregame show for the Oilers and Canucks, but we do have the one monitors and kind of everything just stopped and the phone started going. Are you guys watching this? Are you guys watching this? So obviously we too, we got tuned right in and what me and Kev loved the most like we were both flipping out was Pasternak turning back to Jim Montgomery and being like, I'm going to go on that. Yeah, like can I go out there, I want him and Jimmy gives him the nod. I mean, there's not much else to say for me more than it like that's awesome. Like that is talk about just culture and I don't know like past that to me has grown. He's grown so much on me in the last couple of years and then getting to see him, you know, up close and personal in this series. He wasn't fantastic, but he came through when it when it really mattered and man, like that's Matty Kachuk, that's not that's not a small task there and he's you know, through some absolute haymakers. I just think that's like where if we're going down, we're going down swinging and it starts from the top and goes all the way down through their lineup. I mean, there's a reason they can I know they didn't win last night, but there's a reason they've had so much success and it's just guys buying into that ideology and that that's real man like that team, you know, culture identity, whatever you want, tight dressing room character, call it all the above. That's real. I couldn't help but view it through a Maple Leafs lens, right? And yeah, the Panthers will want that they were able to chase Jeremy Swamin from a hockey game. I didn't know you were allowed to score four goals on Jeremy Swamin. Apparently you are. And they did and they scored six goals in the hockey game, but also yeah, the physicality and this is like, man, I understand Leafs went to game seven over time and they so many like legitimate caveats about that series. But man, just watching that game yesterday, just it did feel different than what we've seen from the Maple Leafs, not just this postseason, but postseason's passing. I know this year's team was a little more apt to play that type of game, but what about that idea that those are, okay, well, there's the real playoffs and those are the two real playoff teams compared to what the Leafs provided in a series that could have gone either way, like, doesn't get closer than a game seven over time. Like am I overdoing it when I, when I think about the Leafs not fitting into a game played like that yesterday, I mean, the Panthers are a different animal, 146 hits last night in that game. Florida was credited for 76 hits, Boston had 70. It was the entire game up and down and we're seeing a little bit of trend in this playoffs of teams that have a little bit of time off, not doing particularly well, whether it's the start of the game or the, or the entire game, Florida loses the first one, Dallas goes down three, nothing in the first period of Colorado. Last night, Edmonton Vancouver, Vancouver was sleeping for 40 minutes. Florida looked like they took game one personally, like they were upset about Boston walking into their building in game one and, you know, doing what they did. Florida is just a different beast, absolutely relentless on their forecheck. They're aggressive down the walls and they take no prisoners. They are a team that is, it's almost like I love to hate, because there are so many guys on that team that I despise, but at the same time, I would love to have on my team. And it's like, it's a roster and a team that you just love watching. Like Kachuk cousins, these guys, I would love to get my hands on if I was playing, but my goodness, like it is a brand of hockey that is easy to get on board with and that you're watching and you're going, man, I wish my team had some of this, you know, I wish my team played like this a little more and it's, it's, it starts from the top with Paul Maurice. He seems to, he seems to just lead that team quietly, but you know, quietly with a big, but with a big stick is how they say it and everyone, everyone just follows and it is, it's different. And I think you guys noticed that it is a different brand of hockey. Yeah, just, just talking about it here, you know what is different as well. And I echo everything you've said, you know, Florida has, has been arguably, you know, I know they, the lost first game of that series, the most impressive team to me throughout, throughout what we've seen so far, but it's not lost to me that Pasternak had that response to Kachuk and had the exact opposite one to Matthew Nye's. And that just proves to me kind of who's, who's big brother when we're looking at the Atlantic, right? Like Boston against Toronto, their whole thing was, we want to stay above the fray. Like Marchan's going to gap at you and get angry, but Matthew Nye's went right up to Pasternak and said, go me, go me. And they clearly wanted to, I don't think they wanted to stay away from a physical series or a nasty series, but they didn't want to seem to be kind of giving into the Leafs in that way. And it, it feels like it is the exact opposite in this series against the Panthers. And I don't know how you can look at the moment with Pasternak and Kachuk versus Pasternak with Nye's is not like a perfect distillation of that. No, that's a great call to comparing it to the Nye's is it makes me think and it, Boston has done it for the longest time. It's like they're always looking big picture. It's like they're, that they always, he'll, I don't want to say he lost that small battle with Nye's, but obviously like Toronto fans love that. They're like, Nye's is doing this and pasta, not, not a ton of reaction, but it's like Boston's always looking to win the war and just these small battles just adding up and whether it's turning the other cheek or whether it's going after it, they just always have the bigger picture in mind. And it's, it's part of their identity and it's going back to what we said. And it's just kind of the way that they're built and they're smart, smart players. These are veteran guys, most of them that, that have done this and been there before. And they just, you know, we say they just get it, like they, they get it. They understand and it's, it's, it's clear as day. Yeah. And it looks like breaded towards an entertaining series there between the Panthers and Bruins. First win, by the way, for the Panthers against the Bruins this season, they were swept during the season, regular season series, Luke, it is always a pleasure talking to you. Thanks, man. Yeah. Thanks guys. Anytime. I'm Aaron H.eller, Hockey Central analyst for Sportsnet hosted the MITS OFF podcast, talking about that very physical blowout game, blowout win for the Panthers after losing game one to the Bruins, where it elicited conversations on this show and I'm sure many in the city of Toronto of like, Oh, well, you, K, it's pretty impressive actually. Leaf Scott to game seven over time against the Bruins team that's, you know, maybe got a really impressive, maybe Stanley Cup run in them. And maybe they still do. Yeah. But I think Panthers looking a lot like the team, most of us expected them to look like in this series in game two. Pips are a big, mean, nasty team. I think they are the, I don't, I don't know that they're the best team. I'm not going to sit here and tell you they're not, but they are even when you go over to the West, like that is the biggest, nastiest team that there is in these playoffs. The Rangers, they have some of that in them, but not, I mean, I'm just really just rent pay and true, but they don't, they, they can't match what's there. The hurricanes, that's not in their DNA. I mean, we just watched the pillow fight in Vancouver last night. And then, you know, stars in Avalanche, that's not a non physical series, but like the Panthers are truly kind of an outlier in this way in terms of how they do it. We talk about, you know, this is what playoff hockey looks like and I don't, I don't disagree, but the Panthers stand head and shoulders above, not on skill necessarily, not on talent. But if you believe that that is the route to wins in the playoffs is just being bigger, meaner, and having enough skill to go along with it, yeah, scoring, you got a score. Of course. No, no, of course. And they scored six goals, which probably mentioned that part of it as well last night. So four of them, was it on, on Jeremy Swamin as well? So you can't discount that power play goal at the end of the game to boot. There you go. But it's not lost on, oh, but that's on all marks, so it doesn't count, but, but it's not lost on me that they are, I mean, say what you will, but the other teams, a lot of good teams left. I don't know how many of these other teams stack up physically against the Panthers, either. Yeah. Yeah. And, and it's not everything. Like you do have to be able to put the buck in the back of the net. You can't win a game just by crushing everybody's skull, it doesn't hurt over heggy of like the most overtime goals of Wayne Gretzky and Joe Sackick or something. And I mentioned, yeah, the late power play goal, the score on one, I like early in the game, they had some power plays that created opportunities, like no Leafs power play in the 21 that they had, even the one, the score to goal wasn't like, no, there was one good winning game seven. There was. There was. There was. It was. Before we go. So again, like could not stop laughing at the Justin Brazo and the Panthers player or happened to you dancing like he put their hands interlocked going up and down. And yeah, to me, the vest line was, yeah, the weddings two weeks away or whatever. We got to get this right as if they were practicing their dancing. Sportsnet has entered the conversation with their quote tweet, shout out to whoever the social media manager that had this. I want what they have, which is better, in your opinion. Oh, though, the wedding one, sorry, sportsnet, but the wedding is just perfect. Like, yeah, you want what they have, but what, but that's, that's like the fairytale version. The real. It's like, you're sometimes marriage, like, you know, stressful. It's like, come on, we got to get this figured out. I love that there. So yeah, that's my favorite one. The wedding is 10 days away. We have to nail this. It's good. Beautiful. All right. I'm off tomorrow. Oh, yeah. Enjoy your show. I'm probably talking a lot of golf. I'll be honest, Monday off as well. So I'll see you on Tuesday. Heaven forbid you work. Yeah. I'll do that. All right. This has been the Fan Morning Show. Ben, it's Brent Gowney, sportsnet 5.9 in Fan. Good morning. Good morning. [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] (upbeat music) [MUSIC PLAYING]
