[MUSIC] >> Fan, morning shows, 4.759, fan, van, and his brain gunning. Blue Jays, salvage a game or also split the series. Depending on how you want to view that, it's two games serious. So they split a series, split it, what are you talking about? >> They went into the hardest ballpark in the major leagues. Those savage Philly fans picked up a series split. >> Yeah, they were avoiding the batteries. And yeah, they come back home day off to play the twins. >> I feel like the batteries are reserved for like Dallas Cowboys and Philadelphia athletes only. Like it'd be hard as an opposing player that's not like a Dallas Cowboy or somebody like that. >> Yeah, and Santa got booed, even have batteries thrown out of it. >> Anyways, Vlad was good, just unquestionably good in the baseball game, three for five, three singles including one and infield single. But they're all. >> Did you have that on your bingo card for Vladi yesterday, infield single? >> Sure, I had singles, that's for sure. >> Sure, I did I. >> Okay, so now, here's the slash line for Vladimir Guerrero Jr. 246 batting average, 344 on base percentage. 373 slugging percentage, that is an OPS of 717. Do you know where his slugging ranks among qualified hitters? That is a 373 slugging, like I said. >> I bet I am mere seconds away from finding out. >> You're correct, 117th. Do you know what the league average slugging percentage is in Major League Baseball? >> Same answer, 384. So still well below league average when it comes to slugging. >> It's a bubbly average when it comes to on base, kind of in and around that when it comes to batting average. But it's he's progressing, right, like, hey, the OPS. Now you can once again say above average offensive player. >> Exactly what we all wanted. >> But if your bar is like, this cracks me up. It's like he's been an above average hitter, even last year above average hitter. Above average from what, like the average baseball player? >> People have been trying to put him in Cooperstown since he was bored. What are you doing above average? >> Well, not even that, like not even above average of the star player on your team. >> No, that's- >> Yeah, yeah, there is that. But like just first baseman, like, where is he in regards to first baseman? Because the bar is higher at that position because the demands are not the same defensively as they are at shortstop or center field or third base or catcher, which is the most demanding defensive position. He ranks 14th among qualified first baseman in OPS this season. I'm gonna ask you a question again and you're gonna give me the same answer, but now it's getting funny. Do you know where he ranked among qualified first baseman in OPS last year? >> No, no, I don't. >> 14th, he's right there, he's the exact same spot, again, trending in a better direction. And what I prefer, Vladimir Guerrero Jr. gets the least singles as opposed to no hits at all. Of course, of course, of course. The name of the game is don't make it out, but the name of the game is also to do damage. And the name of the game when you're Vladimir Guerrero Jr. and you're a first baseman is to hit the ball over the wall. But that being said, three, four, five, ain't nothing to sneeze at. And the two singles, boy, were they annihilated, hang and break them ball. Anybody can hit the snot out of a hand and break it. >> He'll single it. >> Yeah. >> That's the saying. >> But really hard. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> So what is, a lot of this is in jest, but there is a lot of truth to what I'm saying here. And I, okay, there is the 2021 Vlad, which is obviously acceptable, and you would die to have that again, right? >> Oh my God. >> But where does the line of acceptability, like where is it exactly? Where it's like, man, he's not that guy, but you know what? You could do a lot worse than Vladimir Guerrero Jr. in 2024 doing what? >> Yeah. I think so much of it goes back to kind of what we talked about with Adnan yesterday. The idea of that bar as a Toronto Blue Jay or being viewed as a Toronto Blue Jay and that bar for any other team, I think are different. If Vlad is here, you know, beyond the arb years and all that, it's because he's part of the furniture, it's because he's got a big fat contract and he's paid. And if that's the case, then the floor needs to be a lot higher than what it's been. The floor needs to be way closer. It doesn't need to be the 21 season. I mean, no one would need an MVP season to be their floor, but it's got to be somewhere way closer to that. I think that's what it all goes back to is that if Vlad is going to be, let's even say it to this. It's the, you know, what is it? It's in nine of his last 10, three knocks yesterday, yeah, they're all singles, but that requires a change of organizational philosophy in terms of not, not in the way you build a vault club, but in the terms of who the pillars of it are. The way this is gone is it was always supposed to be bow and Vlad. And if all of a sudden it's bow and Vlad is very nice piece that compliments him. It just changes the way you have to go about it. So I don't know that there is a, this is the slash line he must have. It all is going to be tied into how he views himself in terms of that contract and how the team views him in terms of how they build this thing out. Should he be here beyond the arbiers? I don't have a slash line for you, but I have a better idea now that we have a longer sample with the player, right? And we can understand that he's capable of the things he was capable in 2021, but we understand the circumstances around which that season occurred and no fault of his own, but like, and this and you still got to hit the ball over the fence, but the hitting environments in Dunedin and Buffalo were outrageously ridiculously amazing for him. And he took advantage and he showed proof of concept for him being the best player in baseball. But if we just remove that season, then we get a better idea of who the player is. Or we look at the road splits for that season, which was an OPS that was quite good, but it was below 900. And we look back at the 2022 season, which at the moment was like, oh, well, this stanks 818 OPS, 32 home runs, 339 on base, finished 16th in MVP voting. It's also a gold glover, which in retrospect is kind of curious. But in 2022, he ranked six among first baseman in OPS 818, which isn't like, he wasn't Paul Goldschmidt, Freddie Freeman, Peter Lonzo, Nathaniel Lowe, Jose Abreu, who all finished ahead of him in OPS. But he was in the conversation, he's ahead of Anthony Rizzo, like he was good. He was good. That feels like now very acceptable. Like if he can finish in the top 10 in OPS, amongst majorly first baseman, that is like good. If he could be the top five, the idea of him getting back to MVP form outrageous, outrageous. I'm not telling you what that slash line looks like where I understand what you're saying. But to be in the top six, top five of major league baseball, first baseman, to me now, that's an acceptable bar. I can accept that what we thought we were getting, we're probably not getting. And that guy, the north of 800 OPS, to me, it's like anything north of 800 is like, okay, that's pretty damn good. Like 30 home runs in this era were the league average OPS is 700, that's pretty damn good. So like 800 ish OPS and top five among major league baseball for a space man. Yeah, I think that I think that's a very good kind of way to look at it, especially, you know, like baseball is a little different. You know, it's not, it's not the way it once was in terms of, well, this is your hitting position. Like there's a little more versatility there, but yeah, I do think to kind of just set it to that position, you want him to be, if the Blue Jays are going to be a good team in this era, whatever it, whatever that means to you, it's with Laddie being elite at his position and bow being elite at his position, obviously you need a million other things to go right to win and all that. But that is, that's the recipe right there. And yeah, I think that, I think that a world where he's outside of the top 10 is completely untenable, quite frankly, for what he's supposed to be not accept. No, definitely not. It's like, top 10 feels like the bare, bare, bare minimum floor over an era. That shouldn't be what he is. Like he shouldn't be the eighth, ninth best first baseman every year. But if you do it a, like if you do it over a five year sample size, and he has a couple of years in there where he's the second or third best in a couple of years and there where he's the seventh or eighth best, then I think you can live with that. >> Man, I didn't even intentionally do this, but this season, the ninth best first baseman when it comes to OPS is Ryan Mountcastle, you know, as OPS is. >> Only 800. >> Look at that. So yeah, be it top 10 bad guy to pick though, because in minds of Jay's fans, he is Barry Bond. >> Yeah, he's the best player. >> Ryan Mountcastle, of course, the greatest hitter of our generation. >> Yeah. >> I wonder if Roger Center is still tough to hit in for him. Is he like the one guy? I didn't look at the numbers last year. >> Well, I'm coming after this twin series, Blue Jays, do have that juggernaut Orioles team. All right. >> Nick Kiprios in 15 minutes, and boy, people should check out his latest on the Toronto Star. He's got some great nuggets in there as the entry just about to crank up for the Toronto Maple Leafs tomorrow. The media availability that involves Keith Belly, Brendan Shanahan, Brad for Living, will take place. >> Mm-hm. >> Elliott Friedman, yesterday on 32 Thoughts, talking about the decision around the head coach, like imminent, you would imagine. >> Is there a scenario? Is there a scenario, to that point, like, is there a scenario where the leaders of this organization, and we're assuming Brendan Shanahan's still a leader of this organization, because that would be a weird one, to say, hey, we're parting ways with Brendan Shanahan, and we're doing it in this fashion with him at the dais, like it seems like a reaffirmation of his standing within this organization. Is there a scenario where those guys say we're still processing the head coach thing, we're still going through our due diligence, we have nothing for you, and they do not give clarity on Sheldon Keith's status? >> I don't think they don't give clarity. I think it's very possible there's a world where they thread the needle on the truth regarding where they're at with Sheldon Keith, because I can easily see a world where obviously Keith questions are going to be answered if there's not a definitive statement made one way or another, and the answer will be something along the lines of we are happy to proceed with Sheldon Keith as our head coach. We like what happened in the series, and then Robert Nemours team's eliminated in two weeks and they're having conversations with him or whatever the case is. I don't think, he is under contract, they don't have to announce that he is the head coach in September right now. I want them to. God, what I love the news to actually understand where this is going, but I think it's entirely possible that that happens where they go, hey, any news on Sheldon, and they go, what do you mean, the guy under contract for next year, he's going to coach our team, and then they, you know, see what happens with Brendan Moore. I don't know that that's going to happen, but I can see that world. Yeah, I mean, I would tend to think that if you're open to the idea of Rod Brendan Moore and not all coaching candidates the same, obviously, and I think in both of our eyes, Craig Barouba, not quite to the level, despite the coupling that he's wearing as a head coach. I'm just going to say it right now. If you're going to hire Craig Barouba, you should have fired Sheldon Keith in the middle of the season and hired him to do the thing he's the best at. Well, that's a good point. Like, maybe that's an indication that they're not as into Craig Barouba as we assume that they are. That is my read, not my read on where they're at, but that has been my opinion of it is that if when the team was floundering, we were having these conversation and alarm bells were ringing, that you know he can do that, get in there and rattle some cages and yeah, I don't know that he's going to bring Jordan Bennington with them. So who knows how it would work, but that's the thing I keep coming back to with Barouba. So I feel like I've kind of danced around where I stand on him. I think it can be a fine head coach, but the thing he's best at, you squandered your opportunity to bring him in to do. So that's why I am hesitant to believe they'd be in on Barouba now personally. Yeah. My favorite thing that hockey pundits do when you say, "Fire the coach," is like, "Well, hire who?" Which is a good comeback. It's a great question. It's a great comeback. And if the answer is not Craig Barouba and it's, "Hey, one guy, Rod Brindomour." And if not him, it's like, yeah, we don't think Sheldon Tief has done the greatest job because he only has one whole season victory, but we don't think he's as responsible as the rest of the world does. And also with him being under contract, like that still gives us the in-season bullet to fire, or to fire him, that we can, especially considering the makeover of the roster, which we assume is coming, that there is a pivot, we'll go to somebody we think is better that's Rod Brindomour if he becomes available. But barring that, maybe we do keep the guy under contract who's not even going into a lame-duck season. He signed a two-year contract extension, which has not yet kicked in. Let me ask you a wild, wild question about the general manager of the hockey team. How much say do you think Brad for a living hasn't on this? Because I think true living probably felt one way about Keith when he came here. And you know, we all feel how we feel because of the scar tissue and we've been through this. Brad, your living has not been through this a million times. I know you love to roll your eyes at me when I go, "Oh, William Nieland or miss this time." And Joe Wall, Game 7 and Austin Matthews, I think Brad for a living says, "Hold on. This guy got the team to a game." I don't think he looks at this as he's Scottie Bowman, but I think that we all view Sheldon Keith through the lens of the scar tissue and he's been through it. And I'm not saying true living is blind to all that, but part of the idea of a GM change is fresh eyes on things. And I think a lot of times people think of fresh eyes is get this guy out of gear. I think it is entirely possible fresh eyes mean, "Mm, now that's not to say there are not one or two candidates that he might like better, but if it's not, if you're not able to land those one or two candidates, I don't think, I don't think the Lisa at some point where they just want to make change for change stake or they would have done it already. I think this is probably them wanting one, maybe two people. And it's an issue of whether they're able to do it, because honestly, if it was Barouba, why would it not be done now? No, why wouldn't it have been done in season two or been more legitimate rumblings about that possibility? I think that's the best case against Craig Barouba. And now, I mean, now that you mentioned the tri-living thing, which is a great point to bring up. Thank you. I'm thinking about the conversation between him and Brennan Janahan breaking down yet another postseason failure and tri-living laying out all the excuses, the facts, but the excuses. They're both. They're both. Yeah. But the facts. Yeah. And Brennan Janahan, who has been through it, who watched them lose to Montreal, watched them lose to Columbus, but is like, all you have to do is go up in the door for him to be like, yeah, you're right. Oh, no. I thought my goodness. I think he'd be sitting there going, I thought I fired this guy. What is going on? I thought that would even be saying, no, because he wants to hear that. He wanted to hear it from Kyle Dubis because he was going to bring him back. What are you talking about? I know. I know. Brennan Janahan. I'm kidding. Like he ruptured his neck on your right crack. Holy cow. You're doing great. We're awesome. It's the world that's against us. I should also throw this out there. I don't think this is going to happen. I think all the rumblings that we, that we expect or that we've heard, I think they're all true. It is entirely possible that it is just pelly and true living up there. Like teams have made announcements that this guy's going to talk and he doesn't talk before. So just I, it is super weird that we had the Friedman clip on 32 thoughts yesterday talking about yesterday being decision day. And you know, I know it's possible they can be trying to keep everything super tight to the vest and announce it as the coming from their mouths to God, whatever the saying is, you know, announcing it Friday to start the presser. But like, what were they deciding yesterday if nothing was announced? That's what I can't keep wrap my head around. Maybe, maybe they told Sheldon Keefe personally and then, I don't know, it did feel like it's not like here's what I think. You think the Leafs could fire a head coach or a president and stay quiet for two days? I that's like, there, there would be an attempt at least because once you, once you announced that the executives are speaking on a Friday, you can't have the head coach do a media availability on the Monday and then have an announcement on the Tuesday that that's happening and then wait all the way until Friday to speak about it. Yeah. Right. Like there has to be, it has to happen in pretty close proximity to that media availability. So you could see it today being when it comes out or whatever. Or tomorrow morning. Right. Last one before we take a break and we will talk to Nick Kiprios about this a whole lot because it's, it's, it's, it's very much peppered throughout his latest on the Toronto Star website. Where are you on what you think John Tavares and or Mitch Marner will say if they are approached by Brad for living to waive their no move clause because I've evolved on this. Yeah. I feel that Tavares would still be very, very hesitant to. I think that all the stuff we joke about with him, the robot stuff, I think that allows the public perception stuff not to leak in as much. He's a, he is a human. I know like I know we joke, but it obviously leaks in a little bit, but I just think he is so singularly minded that he is able to just must complete the job, want to stay a leaf. I think with Marner that you're, there's too much noise for it to be nothing. And I think the player, if he, if he is presented with a good opportunity, again, it's not for nothing. But if he is presented with a good opportunity, I think he would be, be open to it. And I think so much of that is how much he cares about the perception. And only one guy has been explicitly asked by a member of the media whether he would waive his no trade clause. And that was John Tavares last year. Yep. Yep. But he was asked. He said, absolutely not. Yep. But that's one thing to hear that from somebody who's not making the, it's basically like, it's not a fan, but it's like, that's a fan questions like, what are you talking about? Wave my no move. Like I'm still good. Like I'm wearing the C and we could, yeah, we could win it all. It's quite another when you're presented that question by the general manager. Well, what if it comes with a threat of losing your captaincy? Yeah. Like, hey, do you want to, do you want to be a good soldier who falls on his sword? Waves and no move. We find your home somewhere. Do you want to be the guy who's obviously a diminished version and everybody knows you've been asked? And then again, like, I, this, this, do you want to be like the Matt Sundine without being Matt Sundine? That's what a great way to put it. Yeah. You're not a Matt Sundine. You have no bonafides. Matt Sundine, the greatest leaf of all time, even some people are like, oh, Matt's tough. Don't do that. But like you couldn't because it's like Matt's, but it's like, John Tavars, what have you done? Yeah. It's like, and you're going to hamstring this team for another year? I scored the only serious winning goal. Great. No, no, I like, I know you're right, but I like, I have to say it. Sorry. I do. I think that's a tough one, man. The other thing. I think, I think both of them wave it. I, I'm now at the spot where I think both of them say you're right. I think time to go. I honestly think would have to come to like threatening Tavars with losing his captaincy. And I think that's very much on the table. I think that's happening. Yeah. And you know who would know our next guest, Nick Kipriels. Real Kipper and born next as the fan morning show continues, Ben and his friend, Gunning sports net five, nine of the fan dive deep into Toronto sports and the NFL. The JD bunk is podcast subscribe and download the show on Apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Fan morning show, four, seven, five, nine of the fan Ben and his friend, Gunning, Sheldon Keith. Wouldn't it on him? Good job. I like to hear. Yeah. I wonder where you learned that. We never heard that here before at all. From Jack Campbell. Of course, what I mean. Well, Ilya Samsonov doing the Jack Campbell thing too. He also put it on himself, but not to get them. That's still my favorite part of it is like, but not making a mistake on not going to get the puck to pass your ex-court on. He's he's fine with that. That's my favorite part about it. He's like, I'm owning it, but I'm being honest with you that that was not a mistake. I loved it. I like it sounds like I'm being sarcastic. I'm not. I loved it. All right. Let's talk to our insider brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus where you can expect excellence online and in the showroom, visit Don Valley North Lexus.com today's insider, Nick Caprios of Real Kipper and Born. He's got another great article coming out on the Toronto Stars website today. How's it going, Kipper? I'm well, guys. How are you? Doing all right. So there's lots of juicy stuff to get to before we hear from Keith Pelley, Brennan Janna and Brad Tre living tomorrow. Let's start with the head coach, though. Where do you think we are in the process? And what felt like a guarantee for me, at least, that the conclusion of game seven, the Sheldon Keef would not get another kick of the can. I guess I'm a little more of the belief that maybe we haven't heard anything yet. Maybe it's possible he returns like, where are you on Sheldon Keef's future with the Maple Leafs? Well, first of all, I think the fact that they scheduled something for Thursday and then pushed it back to Friday might be an indication that they need some time to start. Still make certain decisions or negotiate with another coach before they definitively let Sheldon go. He's hanging in the balance, much like he did last year and nothing's really changed on that front with the exception that he has a two-year contract remaining with the hockey club. So this really comes down to tomorrow's press conference and, you know, is there a chance that Brendan Shanahan won't be there? I heard you guys talk earlier when it comes to the Toronto Maple Leafs and what we've seen note for the last few years, nothing's off the table with what to expect or what not to expect with this hockey club. Yeah, I mean, that's kind of in my read on it. I would expect Shanny to be there, but I mean, they pushed it back to Friday. Yesterday was supposed to be decision day. We haven't heard anything yet. As you're thinking kind of evolved on that, I mean, I do still, you know, I know I threw it at the theory. I do still expect Shanny to be there and I don't think he's ultimately going to lose his job this year anyways. But as you're thinking evolved on that at all, just with how things have played out and then pushing it back to Friday and they're being such a kind of lack of news. This is a hard one to read, whether you're, you know, one of the very best insiders or just a guy having a coffee at Tim Hortons, man, it's really, I think, up to the guys that are in charge still and I'm not sure they definitely have answers. I can tell you in the last week, it's my understanding that they've made calls on coaches out there to check on availability, to check on potential. What will it take to bring you here, whether or not that's enough to lock something in between now and tomorrow's press conference and then make the announcement at some point today that Sheldon will not return? I think this going into this week, it was open. It was still open and there's a lot of questions that needed answering and I don't know what happened yesterday in terms of where they got their answers or they're still searching today, but there was a sense going into this week that taking an extra day was definitely an advantage to Keith Pelly and Brendan Shanahan or whoever else is involved on the board side. So Craig Barouba is out there. He's got a ring on his finger that he won in St. Louis, not all that long ago, but to Brent's point earlier, they had a chance to fire the head coach in season and bring Craig Barouba in. They decided not to do that. I wonder if that's an indication. Also, Rod Brindemore is close to a contract extension with the Hurricanes. He's not going anywhere. He's not going anywhere. He's not going anywhere. You've got to stop throwing that out. That's not happening. That's not happening. I mean, I don't want to crush your hopes or everything ever. You did. You never know. Well done. This is a guy that turned down the New York Rangers before Peter Labulat. He could have rode his own ticket at $5 or $6 million a year, and he just wanted nothing to do with it. I cannot see a year later moving to the Toronto Maple Leafs because he's a little upset at the owner for Brindemore and Dimey him. So all indications is it's Carolina or bust for Rod Brindemore, and a lot of other people were waiting on decisions from what happens to John Cooper. If he loses out in the first round, what happens to Sullivan, if they don't make the playoffs, those guys are locked in. They don't appear to be going anywhere. Tortorella was another guy that you go, no, I'm just telling you, Tortorella is another guy where you go, okay, he's nuts, but he can win in a short period, but he's not going anywhere. And he's going to be back behind the Philadelphia Flyer bench. So what are you left with? You're left with Todd McClellan. You're left with Craig Burrouby, Gerard Gallant, and that's where you got some people probably under the roof of MLSC going. Are they better than Sheldon Keith right now? We've got them under two years. Okay, what are we doing here? So that's the sense that I got on discussions going into this week anyways, that nothing was locked. I wonder how connected these two things are. I mean, and this is, I guess, is good a time to transition to the Marner stuff you have in your piece for the star here. If the Leafs are relatively confident, and you know, that's a, you know, that's a, that's on a scale, but if they're somewhat confident that there can be a big swing trade, be that a Marner trade, be that a Tavares trade, be that both, does that embolden them to maybe bring Sheldon Keith back because they see the change with the group as enough change, whereas if they couldn't make those moves, you would almost have to make the coaching change because something would have to change. I do believe that, that Keith Pally knows that there has to be something significant here moving forward, that he's got to at least insinuate to be coming or needs to come as early as Friday. So I don't think he sits there and says that I'm going to be confident to tell everybody we're really close as is and we're going to stick with the game plan. So Keith isn't, he's, he's savvier than that. But he doesn't have to necessarily do it on other people's timeframe than, than his own. So in saying that, I think there's going to be some insinuation on Friday from Keith Pally that we believe that we're in the win now mode and we're going to do whatever it's necessary to get us over the hump and there's different ways that can come of change. So it may not necessarily be Brendan Chanahan, it may not necessarily be Sheldon Keith. So what's left there personnel and there's a sense of us coming regardless how you feel about a president's role or a head coach's job. So you on Real Kipper and Born said it's a, it's a formality that Mitch Marner would wave his no move clause if they find a trade partner that he's willing to go to and that is willing to sign him to the extension he so desires, how, how close to the formality is it for John Tavares? It seems like not because I mean he was asked explicitly last season whether we would and he said no, obviously different stage of his career and has a different family component to that. Like how, how separate are those two conversations? The Mitch Marner asking him to wave his no move and the John Tavares asking him to wave his no move. There are different places in their career for sure where Mitch Marner still in his prime here and will remain in his prime for the next, for the next seven or eight years, you know. So, so that warrants the contract and the feeling that he will still remain one of the highest paid players in the game. The difference between him and Tavares now is Tavares as we know is probably on, you know, the back end of his career and the decisions come much differently for him. So there's a lot more, it's a lot more emotional for sure for John Tavares who if I'm not mistaken will be turning 34 by training cap. So the question remains now for John is weighing out the pros and cons of lifting his no move clause for one more year it's it's inevitable that that he's not going to be next as early as next season. The player that he was earlier on the contract, a diminished role is coming next year. If he stays with the Toronto Maple Leafs, so how comfortable is he in that? And if he's comfortable with that, then he can fight them. And if he says, I'm still a good player, I can still produce 60 points, I don't have to end my career on this note, then he has no choice but to look at other options and that includes a move here. And you know, he's had a wonderful career, he's been the face of a franchise twice and and now there's time, now it's time to say, okay, where is my legacy going to end up here? You know, earlier in the last, what, 12, 18 months we've had conversations on is John a Hall of Famer and it's like, is he, does he still want to be one because he can't do it staying in Toronto in a diminished role as a third or fourth liner. So lots of decisions to be made for, for John Tavares and it's up to the Leafs to present them with all of this moving forward, they have to do it. This isn't really about John not sticking around and offering us 50 or 60 points. He can do that again. The question is, does it get us anywhere other than out of the first round again or does he take those services somewhere else and put himself in a position to still be an important player on a team or perhaps even chasing a Stanley Cup by by trade deadline next season. So that's, that those are hard conversations to have a guy that's so well respected with John Tavares but the Leafs have to do their job here and they have to ask those tough questions. Yeah, I mean, already a thousand games, over a thousand points going to end up what you'd think short of a disastrous injury here with 500 goals. It's very at the least fringe Hall of Famer. Yeah, I've got a bit of the opinion. The thing that would get him in as a for sure lock is winning a cup as captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs. And I wonder how much of it is that, how much of that is a carrot for him. And if things do get, you know, what happening, we'll just stop you for one second. It's not happening. He is not captaining a Stanley Cup team in Toronto next year. Well, so that's what I was going to get at, Kipper, is do they, if you want to, in my opinion, would be, if you wanted to push John Tavares out the door, as good away as any would be to let him know that you will be doing the Joe Thornton to him and you will be taking his captaincy. I don't know that he would want to stick around for, I mean, quite frankly, you know, he's a pro and he could deal with it, but the embarrassment of that, like, if they really want to make this happen, how much is that the, not the carrot, but the stick the Leafs need to lean on of threatening that? It's, it's legit and it's there and I don't know how ugly they want to make it with him. And I'm not sure how ugly he wants to make it with him. John Tavares is not Patrick Marlow here at the end and you're just looking for someone to, to take his, his cap hit. That is part of the, the solution for the Leafs moving forward is that they alleviate his cap space, but he's a very good hockey player still. It's not that John can't contribute to the Leafs next year, it's that John, it's, it's John, we need John's cap space so we can move it towards an defenseman or a goaltender. Yes, we can keep John and you can put up another 55 points and we can lose in the first round again. But that has to end and it has to end by asking John, we need your cap space to move it somewhere else and would you help us to accommodate you in finding a new place to play. And what kind of return are they looking at, especially if they eat some of his cap hit, he's only got a base salary of $910,000 next season. It's all in signing bonus, Kipper, like it, it, to your point, it not being Patrick Marlow where they don't have to staple a first round pick to him, like there, is it possible they actually get something of value in return? Yes, absolutely, you know, we starving teams out there need to make the playoffs next year. And I know it sucks for John to think about going to Anaheim or Columbus, but he's also in a position to go there and continue his, his march towards a Hall of Fame career by adding another 55 or 60 points and maybe putting himself in a position where he gets traded at the trade deadline to a contender. So there's lots of different ways that John can still look at this and say, my dream of winning a Stanley Cup isn't necessarily over if I don't remain a Toronto Maple Leafs. So there's lots of discussion here and there should be positive ones for both of them to make the best out of not a great situation. When do those conversations start happening? Like have they happened already, obviously, I guess July 1st is a big moment in this offseason? Obviously the draft is also a major moment. Like what are the timeframes for these conversations? The moment they get off the podium Friday, okay, how about that, yeah, just figure out who's in charge, figure out who gets to make those decisions, figure out, you know, where the pecking order is. Right now they've got two presidents of the Toronto Maple Leafs, Keith Pelley and Brendan Shanahan. Do they need two presidents to run the Toronto Maple Leafs or is it a cold thing? Is it who makes the final decision on John Tavares? They got to sort all of this out. I would believe it's coming to fruition very soon and we'll learn a lot more Friday, but that's where it starts before you get to Marner and Tavares and who the next goalie is for the Toronto Maple Leafs and how many free agents you need to get. Kipper, very much enjoyed your latest on the star.ca and always enjoy Wheel of Kipper and Borne. Thanks for doing this, man. Really appreciate it, guys, and sit back and watch the fireworks. We will. Thanks, Kipper. Nick Kipperos, Wheel of Kipper and Borne, our insider brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus, where you can expect excellence online and in the showroom, visit Don Valley, North Lexus.com. There's a lot of chewy stuff there. Yeah, I was going to say, I feel like I'm a cow, like I've got a whole cud chew on. Let's start at the start of our conversation with Nick Kipperos about the head coaching candidates available to replace Sheldon Keith. I think that's a great point. Like, if there is no Rod Brenda Moore, when there's no John Cooper and there's no John Cooper, there is a Craig Burou Bay. There's a Craig Burou Bay, there's a Todd McClellan, like, you already did the like former sharks, guys, come on. There's a Gerard Galant and like the guy that isn't not even worth talking about unless we get clarity on it is Joel Quenville, who's like an obvious upgrade, but it just feels like that's just such a, it's a far-flung idea at this point and one that nobody has a feel for. You could never do this with the coach under contract on staff. I've been adamant of what I would like to see. If that's the guy the least want to hire and they feel like they're not allowed to, use the bully pulpit of the Toronto Maple Leafs to make that clear. Now, there's a million things that go into that. The PR spin of it all and, you know, do you want to be in a fight with the league? You also, again, you have a coach under contract, so you can't be doing that if you have a coach. If you, if you were of the opinion that you were done with Keith and you're just ready to move on, regardless of who the next option was, then you could. But I don't think they're at that spot and I'll say it again. I don't think they should be. I think you totally can change the head coach of Sheldon, the head coach from Sheldon Keith. I just don't think it has to happen if there's not an obvious upgrade. I do not like change for change steak. Like somebody like Todd McQuillan, quite frankly to me, feels a little change for change steak. Yeah. Those, all those guys are all underwhelming. Coached, coached Austin Matthews and Morgan Riley on the Young Guns team at the World Cup hockey. Yeah. Morgan Riley was on that team. That's the craziest thing about that. Morgan Riley, not on that team. Morgan Riley on that team, because he was, he's a baby still. Yeah. Well, we didn't, I mean, Mitch Marner was not guaranteed a spot. Nope. The NHL at that point. I just remember watching, uh, Austin Matthews dangling Victor Hedman from his knees and then scoring a rebound on a Morgan Riley point shot. I was in the crowd for that before the, before Matthews had played the leaf and I was like, Oh my God, it's going to be something. You weren't in the crowd for the first game where Conor McDavid set him up for his first goal on, at then, you know, Canada, Santa Rice? No, I was there for, uh, I was there for the greatest game of all time that does not matter. The game they played against Sweden when Nathan McKinnon and then Mo, he was miked up, walking off the ice, man. Oh my God. That's great. Anyways, those guys, I imagine he'll be saying that regarding something from the Leafs off season. Sure. Yeah. Maybe it. Okay. So two things have evolved for me. Okay. I already said the one thing where I, I think both guys wave their no move clauses. Honestly, I think Mitch Marner and John Tavares and the way Kipper lays it out there too with the Hall of Fame thing, which I hadn't been considering as well. Like you're, are you a Hall of Famer if you play out the Twilight years of your career as a third or fourth liner where the organization said you're no good anymore. It's also one year. And then he can make up his mind where he wants to go after that. Sure. But once you've told the world that that's you, that's who you are. It's tough for somebody to, to sign you up for a bigger role. I know what you mean. Yeah. You can message that as I signed up here to be the captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs and not leave until the jobs, like you can, you can message that in a way I'm not as sold on that. Okay. I, I think he, and he has a young family, which is a huge, huge motivating factor for him. Yeah. I understand that. But it's not like he's like home all the time when he's the captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Like they're on the road 50% of the season. Even when they're home, he has lots of responsibilities, he's got a lot of practice days, a lot of games and yada yada yada. Anyways, I think you could make it work for one year. And then maybe you want to return in a, in a different capacity as a free agent or like now. And then Kipley, if you leave, you leave. I tend to think so, but it was, I think we both had the same thought when Kipley was like, yeah, you go to Columbus and then you're traded at the deadline. Oh, you know what my thought was. What? He would, there's no doubt in my mind that John Tavares would be an exceptional Boston Bruins center. Oh my God. I just like a guy who shouldn't be good at performing well. Yeah, you're right. And he's like going to have a snap streak in and once he goes there, like, I'll be honest, that was immediate. Looma headwind. It's a team that's starved for death at the middle. It would be the most leaf thing ever to have Tavares finally win, like I'm, I'm so mad at myself for telling you all what was going on. But if I have to think it, you have to hear it. No, go back to the island or something like that's a better finish. Yes. Yeah. Let Justin Borne think about you. I'm like, I'm sorry, I know over time, winner to not believe that worst. That's all he does. All he does is score over time, winners, then series. Okay. I had another point, but like, yeah, no hard to recover. I just like was like, look at this horror film. Yeah. Anyway, so I think he's going to wave his no move. I think Mitch Marner's going to wave his no move were at the outside of this thing. I was like, are we sure it's like, nah, I think they're, well, pretty good on that. And the Sheldon Keith thing, like I'm, I still think he's going to be fired. Boy, if I was 99.9, which I was at the conclusion of game seven, I'm 70% now. So I was 70 30 at the conclusion, well, not at the conclusion of game seven, but when he didn't get fired immediately, I was 70 30. And then I have kind of 50 50 now actually, no, I take that back. I am more confident than not Sheldon Keith will be coaching this team in September. I can't do that. And I think the off season changes that could happen regarding Marner and Tavares give them the little bit of Wackel room, they think they need to do that. Yeah, I don't think it's quite that dramatic, but I'm closer to your side than I was the outside. Time now for the Wachen Reich presented by Sports Interaction, your homegrown sports book, 19 plus bet responsibly Rangers never lose in the postseason so far, six and oh up to nothing on the hurricanes as they go to Carolina seven o'clock tonight on Sportsnet and CBC, hurricanes heavily favored to win their first game of this series, minus 175 at home, Rangers plus 145, the total five and a half over hurricanes are just going to pepper Shisterka Mashaats. He's going to save a bunch of them, but I don't think he's going to have 54 saves again. And Freddie Anderson still Freddie Anderson. So yeah, give me the over five and a half there minus 110. That's what I feel the best about. I'm betting against the streak here like hurricanes, a great hockey team and Igor Sturgens quite good. Eventually, that Rangers team is going to lose against a good team minus a goal and a half for the hurricanes plus 150 for me there. Avalanche trying to go up to nothing on the road in Dallas against the stars. That's 930 on Sportsnet and Sportsnet three, 60, the stars minus 130 favorites avalanche plus 110 total high for postseason against six and a half just couldn't take the abs on the money line. I like the abs. I think they're the better team in that series and you know, stars are stars are good. There's a reason there's a reason it's closer to reason they're both in the second round. But yeah, I feel good about my kid in the abs. Yeah, the avalanche turned good goalies into peanuts. So I'm not at all afraid of Jake Ottinger when they just like ended Connor Hellabuck season in dramatic fashion like days ago. So yeah, I'm with you avalanche on plus money to win a postseason game. Give me that. That was the waking rate presented by sports interaction. Your homegrown sports book 19 plus bet responsibly. When we come back, Blue Jays end their road trip with a win, but still lots of questions abound. Let's talk to a former Blue Jays general manager JP Richardi Nax is the fan morning show continues Ben Dennis, Brent Gunning, Sportsnet, 590, the fan.
