the game. Good morning. Joe's. Five nine to the fan. Ben and his friend gunning. Good morning to you, Brian. Yeah, good morning. How's it going? It's going all right. So it's not awesome. Matthew is playing the role of Bobby Bond coming back at Death's door to play a game seven or William Neelander being unable to see. The first three games of playing game four. It's George Springer. He's very ill yesterday. I was going to say and they won. You will. I mean, that is a major differentiating factor. Yeah, it is also a regular season game in May. Yeah, but I mean, scoreboard. Scoreboard. I'd love to say as soreboards. Cure board as the Blue Jays. They silence the doubters. I have some violence. No, they're quiet. It's like I'm the doubters. They're just chewing. It's like they'll get to you in a second when they're done chewing here. But yeah, you're right for a few moments. Doubters silenced. They're silenced. Man, middle of the order just coming up huge, including George Springer. Like, I speak in jazz, but no, they were fine. They were good. Like, good. Not, not just fine. Because. Aaron Nola is a tough customer. Blue Jays did only score five runs and didn't, I think, yeah, that that was going to go for not because the bullpen doesn't have its best. Weapon in Jimmy Garcia and Jordan Romano. Put the tying run on second base in the ninth inning, but whatever the Blue Jays pick up the victory split the mini two game series in Philadelphia with the five three victory day off today before they return home. And this is what this team is going to have to do. It's never going to have a lineup one through nine, where it's like everybody's scary. There's no, you know, we've had conversations about what this team. At its best 2015. It was no black holes. Pick your poison. We're never going to get to that point this season. No, what they hope to have is at least the top three top four. That's like, possibly good. So they were possibly good yesterday, five from 14 were Springer Guerrero and Beshette. Five from 14. A couple of runs driven in mentioned George Springer with the big base hit and the stolen base and the runs scored. He had a great defensive play also in foul territory that goes for a sacrifice fly, but still a good decision to catch that ball. And for a day, at least, like we can talk about the Blue Jays beating the best team in baseball, ending their winning streak. And perhaps the momentum about to switch like maybe this two week swoon has come to a close. Perhaps I think it's more likely than not that we're going to have a few of these throughout every swoon. We see what the Blue Jays offensively. I think that this is a group that's capable. That is why it's frustrating. If you just sat there and looked at guys that you never expect to get a hit, then you'd understand what it was. And we'd have very different expectations about the season. And it wouldn't be, will there be a sell off? It will be. There will be a sell off. That's not the case with this group. And that's why it's so frustrating. So, yes, for one day, I mean, you're right to group it together the way you do. They go. They get five hits. Three of those come from Vlad. Big knock from Springer though. Big knock from Bo. So you'd like to see it. But yeah, I think it's just this is closer to what you're supposed to see from this group. But we don't always see what we're supposed to see from this group anymore. Yeah, we saw some big hits and three from Vlad, all singles. Blue Jays had two extra base hits in the baseball game among their 12. So, like, that's also part of the problem. It's like, it's one thing to get base hits, which they haven't been able to do. Yep. It's quite another to get extra base hits and home runs in a very home run friendly ballpark in Philadelphia, which they were unable to do. So yeah, that's, hey, whatever scoreboard they win. Shout out to our technical director, Josh Santos off the top of the show with Dan Schulman talking about George Springer. I mean, we talked to Dan Schulman and I asked him this question. I didn't have to because he's like, yeah, we went to dinner and like everybody's like, what's going on here with George Springer. You're just Ryan Reeves. You just watered that. Yeah, right. And clearly it's a, it's a through line conversation that's happening with people on the Blue Jays beat. And it's clearly something that John Schneider has had to answer to multiple times because Boba shed gets bumped down the lineup, which we've seen before, which is well deserved because he's been just frankly one of the worst hitters in all the baseball and one base hit to right field does not a turnaround make. He needs to be much better than that. But also, we can go back to recent history as recent as just two years ago in 2022. And he's even worse than this and ended up as one of the best hitters in the American League. So there's like proof of concept for this horrible start to turn around for George Springer. He went an entire season played like the second most games of his career last year. So this is not a small sample 154 games. And he was okay. Like he's a league average hitter. OBS plus of 102, where 100 is league average. OBS of 732. He is now aged about to be 35 years old. I mean, aged for a baseball player, aged to say settled down us 34 year old men are in the peak of our rhymes. How do you think us 40 year olds feel about that? Anyways, well, you're 40. So deal with it and you're a man. Yeah, he's going to turn 35 in September. You look at all the metrics surrounding his ability to hit a fastball or inability and you're like, Oh, well, here's a guy who is. Yeah, he's just like aging out of being a really, really good player. Starts the season. Not as a very good player. Right. John Schneider has shown the propensity not to be stuck in his ways to move things around, even with significant players with the guy who we all expect. I think, yeah, to turn it around at some point. Boba shit. Why is George Springer and like, okay, this is a weird time to bring this up because they won and he was a big part of it. But it is kind of maddening for me that George Springer for some reason is immune from that conversation. Why do you think that is that like God forbid? Yeah, the delicate genius that is George Springer can interfere. Well, let me let me preface everything I'm about to say with I agree with you. And these are all conversations that should already have been had and they probably should have made the move already. So let me preface all that with you. Let me preface everything I'm about to say with your right, Ben, but thank you. Oh, you don't get off the going for them. I know, I know. I know. Honestly, I'm shocked Santos didn't hit us with the idea. I know. I know. Maybe he wasn't here that day. I don't know. I feel like that might have been a command route creation when he was anyways. What I'm about to say, though, is that I love you. Oh, God. Why do I have to open my big stupid mouth? Yeah, maybe there's another one. Yeah. I think that Boboshette, we have both understanding of who the athlete is as a person, what motivates him and proof of concept. You drop this guy in the order. Yes. You get a performance. I don't know why we had to wait until this point to do the thing that we all knew was going to get him going, but that clearly works for him. Boboshette and George Springer are different people. I'm not. I don't even say that to say like bow and flat or different guys. I don't know that Springer would be motivated in the same way. Now, having said all that. This isn't a guy hitting even three or four. That's the guy who's going to get the most at bats on the team. If they keep it up this way, the most played appearances, the most cracks at it. And he isn't deserving of that. So I can understand that different people need different things. And George Springer maybe needs the attaboy or the vote of confidence of staying in the lead off spot to get the best version of them. But at a certain point in time, you have to get beyond what's best for George Springer and finding a way. And also, guess what? It's not working. The vote of confidence and keeping them there. So I agree with you. I think I would have put Schneider in that spot. I mean, hey, let's wait three minutes of my bow get hot while he's rotting in the six hole and then put him up there for all I care. It just it cannot continue this way with Springer in the lead off spot, especially if you're going to have other options. It'd be one thing if this was just a lineup of black holes and you go, all right, well, George Springer's here, you might as well let him do it. But and doing me wrong, there's some black holes in this lineup. There's also a few guys capable of just giving you better played appearances better at bats than you got out of Springer. Yeah, like a league average hitter in right field, playing pretty good defense, which George Springer still came home, especially moving to a corner that he still gets to play like nobody's calling for George Springer not to play, even if he just puts up the same numbers he put up a season ago, like, especially on this team because to your point, it's like it's not nothing but black holes. There's a lot of black holes like he's not quite the biggest black hole on this bad boy. We should really get commander Chris Hadfield on to talk about the blue jays, honestly. Yes. You've never seen anything like this in space. I hope not. I don't know how that works. Closest black holes, pretty far away. All right. See, I knew I knew you and your nerd brain would have all the way if we have a picture of it now. See, I knew there'd be more. I think there's one at the center of every galaxy, including our Milky Way, but it's quite a ways way. Hey, hey, hey, quit. Don't brew and all our summer topics now. Yes. Okay. All right. It's an August topic. If I ever heard it. So sports, you know, like, what's the Brian Burke line? Listen to the fans soon enough, you'll be sitting with them, right? Oh, yeah. I mean, there's just so many Brian Burke lines. I was like, let's go fight in a barn. Yeah. God, that is still going to be the best one forever. Like, in a world where we have pugnacity and track units and Pittsburgh model, my ass and all that, just go fight Kevin Lo and a barn is always going to be the best. Yeah. But like, why a barn? Like, obviously, a guy that's been in a fight in a barn. He's like, this is ideal fighting, location, barn. Let's go rent a find a barn. Yeah. And that's where we'll fight. Well, I mean, just, I think, the logistics of it all, it's like you can make a good little ring out of hay. You can cushion the fall. Uh huh. There's usually, like, you're expected to get injured working on a farm. So there's, like, some medical supply poking around. Seems like a great spot to have a real fight in any of a throwdown. I got to be honest. Just fighting the hospital then. Well, no, that's a sterile environment. And I feel like there's enough fighting that happens there just from, like, only one willing combatant is the problem. Anyway, anyway. So it is true. You didn't like that. You don't, I thought I laid out two good cases. At least, at least one and a half good reasons why you could have a good fight medical supply. Like, I don't think of a barn as being filled with gauze. Well, I don't think of it as gauze. I think they're like, here's a rusty nail shove it in there. Somehow it's better. I don't know. That's what I think. Oh my God. Don't come close to me. If I need first aid, please. Yeah, I don't do the frosty nail is what you went to. You're like, Oh, well, here's a medical aid. A rusty nail. Well, no, now I guess I'm just turning it into like a hardcore wrestling match from my childhood. It's like, Oh my God, he's got the chair. Yeah. A barbed wire on a bat. That'll help you. Anyways, the blue jays. So it's true. And I can remember where we left off. Good for you. I was floored. Brought up Brian Burke because it's, uh, you know, don't want it. Yeah, don't listen to the fans soon enough. You'll be sitting with them, right? That's true. By and large, even when it comes to the Maple Leafs, and we will have plenty of Maple Leaf conversations today. It's like, God, it's right. Miss Mark, get rid of it for nothing. Like, nobody's really having that conversation. You get the sentiment, right? Like, you don't have to do anything. Yeah. Don't tell me. Don't tell me. I'm gonna, I want to stick on this blue jays conversation, but you almost sucked me in. Don't. I know. You're a black hole. I think I don't even know. All right. But yeah, so you don't want to, you don't want to do that. And you want to be patient. I guess, in a game like baseball, it is, it lasts forever, forever and ever and ever. And even if the blue jays don't turn around, like some of the conversations we're having about this blue jays team are not going to be even close to the conversations we're having about them in August and September. It just lasts forever. You can't be reactionary. You can't be even in May where it's like, well, they've been playing for 20% of the season. It's, you know what, in this sport. Like, again, look at Boba Shedd and how horrible he is. Literally a bottom 10 player in all the baseball when it comes to OPS. And he did this in 2022 and ended up as one of the best, right? So you don't want to be reactionary. And being patient is smart. But there is a point where that crosses the line into stubbornness. And inflexibility. And it's going to get to another point that I'm going to talk about with this blue jays team where you're not paying attention to the results. Like the results are, it's process is important, right? Like sometimes you don't get the result when the process is clearly good and they're smart for you to be patient and wait for the results to change because you know that the process is good. And for whatever reason, whatever factors it is, you know, seven consecutive postseason first round exit. It's the eighth. It's going to take note. That's a bad example. But there are certain circumstances where you're like, well, the Boba Shedd in 2022. It's like, guys, guys hitting it hard. And we believe in the track record. And finally, the results take care of themselves. At a certain point, the results are the results. And I would think a whole year of being what George Springer was a season ago. So would factor into the decision making here. My best guess as to why they refuse to move them. I mean, part of it, it's, it's not a 100% one thing. But it must be said, this is the brain trust. This is the group that went out and signed George Springer, right? And not only that, that like they told the player he would be the lead off hitter for this team. Not only that, but the general manager who signed him to that contract is his seat is in flames. Like it's engulfed in flames. Like he is, it's lava. His seat, he can't even touch it. Like he's like, I don't, I stand now. I can't, I can't sit because my seat is lava too. So I'm hanging from like the rings from like American gladiators, like hang tough. Like I know he is the kitten motivational post. You're like, hang in there. You're better. If, and part of this is also interesting because we are of the belief that the front office is controlling some of the lineup decisions as well. But if all of a sudden your prize free agent signing of four years ago is hitting seventh, eighth, ninth. And he's unhappy. And the team still doesn't win. And it's another log on the fire as far as the narrative surrounding you and some of the horrible moves that you've made. It's rough. I wonder if that does play into the equation, the way George Springer was acquired, who acquired him. Also, who's influencing the line because we can all admit at this point that this is like, hey, the box stops with John Schneider, okay? The box stops, John Schneider is also going to be fired here, right? Like, and I suppose he could go off script. But yeah, his next employer, if he wants one, is also going to look at how things played out here. And this is the way managerial decisions are made in 2024. I think you throw it all in the mix and everybody's low to admit what is patently obvious that the former World Series MVP ain't got it no more. I just like we can all admit that the front office is influencing lineup decisions. Can the front office admit that? Like, are they part of we all? No, okay. No, I mean, Dave, I mean, explicitly say the opposite. They're like, this guy's making all the bad moves. Yeah, that's what I'm getting at is how frustrating that must be. The other thing that I think is kind of has to be tied into this is. And it's funny how much we make these things at times and the wording of it is so important. So there was like the thing from Hazel yesterday, the meeting with the players. Yeah, players only. Okay, but that's the thing that she said there was a meeting held this morning. The subject matter will be kept behind closed doors, according to John Schneider. Does that mean he was a part of it? Yeah. So is it a players only meeting? Is that like, how is that any different than I imagine the talk he gives to the guys every day? But the reason I bring that up is to say, if you were going to have a like, Hey, come to Jesus moment. Bo's getting dropped in the order. Springer is that would be the time to do it or right right before then to have the meeting. This is why we did it. Everyone's accountable. I don't care the George Springer makes up 100 million sheets a year. He's got a good. He's got a bat where I see fit or however you want to word it. I think the timing of it is interesting because if you were going to do it, would it not make sense to have done it right following that meeting or a couple days preceding it and then have that meeting be the set things right? I more times than not think we make way too much of these the players on a team spoke to one another about being on a team. Like we do read into this too much, I think, but that to me tells me that there's not some sea change coming unless the meeting is you all better shape up or I'm just doing a full flip. It's not a one and it's going to be Janssen to and what it what you know, whatever it ends up being. I mean, and I do I want to read into that. No, no, no, no, no, you're, yeah, that, yeah, that would have been a nice point of demarcation. And man, if they had lost yesterday, you get the day off, maybe come home, then you see massive massive. Maybe that's why they won. Maybe I also understand like I'm, I've heard it enough times that and baseball players do appear to be both superstitious. And creatures of habit when you play every day and you go through the same routine. And yeah, you want to you want to go through that. Like if you're an established player and you've hit lead off your entire career, hitting lead off is an important part of your routine and what you do to prepare for that first bat at the game. Whether you're on the road where you hit first, like literally you see the first pitch of the game or at home bottom half the first blah, blah, blah, I'm not immune to that. But I also, like, it must be said. Like, come on, I guess it's just batting order position for them. Like, for the actual winning of the game, it's insanely important. Not in like an overall, like, people will talk about roster or lineup positioning and there's no such thing as protection. It all comes out in the wash over a 162 game sample. Well, in the middle of a game, like sequencing is insanely, insanely important. If you've got some guy getting the most played appearances, who's your worst hitter, that's as hugely problematic over the course of a game. The idea that even George Spring, like if we're doing the Boba shed can go down to seventh in the order, but then work his way back up to the top four. Obviously, the same can be said of George Pranger, who has, it must be said, has not hit lead off every single game. There was a Whit Maryfield hot moment, a season ago, and then found himself back in the lead off spot. Anyways, I do not know why key is the inflexible moving part. I think I'll add to that. And I'm not blind to how important routine is. And you can argue, I don't know, like outside of a pro golfer is routine more important to any athlete in any sport that, well, okay, Sydney Crosby, but baseball player, it, like, it does feel like it's so. It is a, your creatures have habit more than it. You don't play three times a week or once a week. It's every single day. But if it's so important to him and it is such a thing that keeps him going. Shouldn't it. Keep him going. Shouldn't you be able to see something out of it? How much worse can you get? That's my point. That's what I keep getting back to is that, okay, if it's important and it is what you need to be the magic, how bad you be. Well, then let's find out. Let's truly find out how deep this Marianna's trench can go. Like, I, that's the thing I keep coming back to it. This is okay. If it's important, that's fine. Prove it via performance. Yeah, and eventually performance becomes so overwhelming that you do have to make a decision like what's happened with David Schneider where it's like, thank goodness, at least, I don't feel insane. Like, they're not dragging me off to the asylum because they, they're playing him every day. At least not for that reason. No, not for that reason. Like, there'll be another one others. Yeah, there'll be other reasons, but life. Just see, like, muttering off 18 and swearing at yourself and be like, I have some questions. Oh, buddy. Golf is for sure going to be what puts me in. Yeah, some sort of institution. It keeps me out of one now, but eventually it will drive me there. Yeah, so I think yesterday, the outside of the season, a start against Aaron Nola, one of the better right handed pitchers in all the baseballs, not a game that David Schneider is starting, right? That is, so we've come to an incredible place with that change in perception for an organization that clearly seems loathe. They're like, they are a big cruise liner, but like one of the old ones that doesn't have like a bunch of high power. We got to bring in. We got to bring in Azo for this. You and Azo are talking cruises like twice a week on here. He's on a cruise monthly, it feels like, but it's very difficult to move these things. It takes a long process and it happens very slowly. It has clearly happened to a degree with David Schneider, but like to the naked eye, like, it's pretty clearly that this guy's better than the seventh best hitter on this team. Sorry, you just, you made the cruise ship reference and now I can't think of George Springer as anything other than that ship was blocking the Suez Canal. He's just that ship at the top of the Blue Jays lineup. It's like, sorry, he's stuck. We can't go anywhere. Nothing's moving until he moves, guys. I thought you were going to bring up that Seinfeld episode with the Android Doria and George Costanza not getting the apartment he wanted because of the Android Doria survivor. And then him doing some research on what happened with that ship records in an episode I just recently watched and he said, what 50 people died? How about you lose in a normal cruise, like 30, 40? Yeah, that's great. No, I was going, I was going the, I think it's called like, no, definitely the ship isn't called Greenpeace. No, it's something though. And John Schneider is the meme of the of the little bulldozer trying to dig out the front of it. He's like, we're getting him out of there, guys. Every day I go up to the office and have a meeting and they go, yeah, sounds great. Adam won. I mean, yeah, probably yesterday didn't add to the list of reasons to move George Pringle. He got further entrenched. He was like, turn to the left. They're like, no, the right. He turned a little more. Yeah. But to the point about David Schneider, at least he's playing every day, but yeah, clearly not the seventh best hitter on this team. He deserves to be in the top half of this line. I agree. But whatever. I guess there's been some movement there. Last thing before we get to sound like a playoff action yesterday and the Oilers blown a big 4-1 lead. It was 4-1, although not in the third period, just late in the second. Honestly, normally I would love that. Even me. I'm like, man, it's too soon. Yeah, it's game one. It's game one. No, I meant for the Leafs. Oh, but also it was game one. And also, if I had to put some ducats down, it'd still be on the Oilers to win that series. Yeah. Anyways, so Blue Jays, day off today, they return home tomorrow where they do have a winning record, 8-7. And clearly, they played some of their best baseball. Helps that one of the teams that they faced at home is the Rockies. God, I didn't speak that. Are they coming back? No, I don't think so. And they faced the Yankees team that was going through it at the time, almost swept them. But they're 8-7, 9-13 away from Roger Center. Now, last year, they were much better as a road team. They were 43 and 38 at home. 5 games over 500. They were 46 and 35 on the road. 11 games over 500. And so much of that was a couple of key players being just not very good at home. Notably, Vladimir Guerrero, Jr. and Dalton Varshot, just their home road splits were atrocious. And it doesn't feel like Roger Center. That doesn't feel like a blip last year, the way Roger Center played offensively. It feels like, yeah, the new dimensions is going to be tough to hit. But maybe that's beneficial for this team. I team, you know, where nobody can hit because they clearly can't hit. No bats allowed at Roger Center. So this isn't everything. But last year's Blue Jays team, 189 games made the playoffs, but was still like a slog to watch. And it was still, boy, for a team that won as many games and 89 games isn't like a ton, but it's more than they lost. And again, and more than the Yankees and more than the Red Sox, right? Like Yankees Red Sox didn't make the playoffs. Blue Jays did and they won 89 games. They got to the playoffs where they scored one run and lost both games, but they made it there. That was a team that was booed off the field multiple times over the last month of the regular season. What if this is like, what if the saving grace of the 2024 Blue Jays is that, okay, maybe they don't mash at home, but they play their best baseball at home. They do the thing that most teams do, even good teams do. They just run it up. They have an incredible record at home and they try to hang in at around 500 on the road. Will that make this team more likable than the 2023 version? Then the 2023 team, yes, but as I was thinking to that, and obviously the team you like the most is the great team that wins. It doesn't matter where they do it. It doesn't matter how they do it. But if you're not going to be a great team, I was thinking, would you rather be the? Let's just say they are. They have the exact same record this last year just to make it nice and easy. Yeah. Would you rather be that team and they're good at home, but they look like this team? Or would you rather be that team where they mash and it doesn't matter where they are? Because I still think, you're right that there is something about, there's a home stand. They're here for two weeks. They win seven games, eight games, nine games in that span. Everybody's leaving the ballpark happy. There is something to that. But I think that those moments are, they're not fleeting. It's just that it's different than every night watching your team hit. So I don't think it's nothing. I think winning at home, of course, would have a big impact. But I still think because this fan base is still so close to the we mash Blue Jays. I think that's the thing that is always going to be held kind of against this group. But if the defense is perfect and everything, then you can love that team. But that's I think the hard part. Well, when this team was winning and they got themselves over 500 somehow still during a stretch of games where they didn't score more than five runs, to me that was pretty entertaining baseball. That was aesthetically pleasing baseball. So the concession you're making if you're talking about this team winning 89 games, but mashing is that the pitching is way worse. Right. They're awful and like the bullpen has been very awful. So you're telling me that you're losing games because you're blowing leads. And so like what's better is a fan to see a team that can come back from any deficit, but can also blow any lead as opposed to a team that, okay, it doesn't score a bunch of runs. But when they score like five or six, they're pretty good to win that baseball game. I would argue that blowing leads in baseball games is the worst thing that you can experience as a fan. That's why every closer unless you're Marianne Rivera. But even like Marianne Rivera, like notable blown leads against the Red Sox in 2004. And yeah, okay, like that's to me, we lived through this. I mean, the proof of concept in the first half of the 2021 season, right? Where they were mashing, except they couldn't hold a lead again, Trent Thornton. I'm going to, how many days consecutively if I mentioned Trent Thornton's name, I need to stop. No, I actually go the other way. I want you shoehorning it in in November. Yeah, still. But yeah, we saw that in a costume, a playoff spot because they missed by one game, but they blew too many leads. To me, it's more aesthetically pleasing to, and it's tougher on your bullpen because you have nothing but high level beginnings. Yeah. But it's more aesthetically pleasing to win for three and five, four, than to win 10, nine, but you know that you're also going to lose 10, nine. Like that's also the game's take way longer. Yeah, they're sad. But when you can play a clean brand of baseball and you come up with clutch hits and just enough to win and like good, but like to me, that's more aesthetically pleasing. Well, what about you? I think that's fair. I just, I think that you would much rather have the bigger margin of error. And I think that's going to exist when you're the team that that matches. And I think it's also part of it is that the team that you're looking at here, it's like, you know, if the bats ever come together, I think the pitching, you know, we can talk about, you know, the progression that could happen or what's going on with Bassett, but you're still going to have it. So I think I'd rather the team that that matches because the entertaining of the floor is so much higher. Whereas the other team, it's like, yeah, it's like, okay, we're going to, like, it's going to be a scrappy, gutty game of baseball and they're all going to be tight. So there's something to that as well. But yeah, I think just like from a, if I can't be guaranteed, the team's going to win. Yes. If I can't, I just take a team that matches over nothing or over everything. Yeah, wins obviously supersede everything course. But yeah, so I think that's the final way I put it is if the T if I have no control over whether the team wins or loses, and the door I'm about to pick has no control over whether the team wins or loses, then just give me the team that hits as opposed to a team that wins at home or a team that has great pitching and defense. Dangers might require, I am a child with an idea. What do you want from me? I know. What do you want? Yeah, I remember. I want some Dangers. It's sports illustrated. So now as a kid with being like, look at this, totally natural human on the cover. Dangers are, it's the best thing you can do. Yeah, maybe I misremembered that air though. I don't know. Probably not. Paul Merrell, baby. Yeah. All right. When we come back, I mean, gold tender is everywhere. Traumatized by the display they saw yesterday in Vancouver in game one between the Oilers and Canucks, but an incredible comeback from the Canucks. We'll get into that also. David Pasternak going at Matthew Kachok boy. More of a spine than Brad Marchon. What? Turns out you can also score against the Bruins and Jeremy Swamann. You can have him removed from a game. And his kitchen helps. That and more next. The fan morning show continues. Ben Anis, Brent Gunning, Sportsnet 590, the fan. Hey, it's Ailish for a fire. And I'm Justin Cuthbury. Join us as we discuss the most important sports stories of the day and tee up the biggest games of the night. In pregame, 6 p.m. weekdays on Sportsnet, Sportsnet 590, the fan and wherever you get your podcasts. Fan morning show, Sportsnet 590, the fan, Ben Anis, Brent Gunning. Can I tell you you're a good friend, Ben? Or at least coworker. I'd like to think that if we're not friends yet, we can become friends. We're friends. Okay, nice. I never know where I stand with people. I like to think everyone's my friend, but I never know where I stand. You just allowed me to wax poetic to you about a grip change I made. And it's like, you came to the right place. I know I know I was watching a Podregg Harrington Instagram video yesterday on grips. I do love Podregg's Instagram content. He's very good. Yeah, I just love the accent. Well, that helps, right? Honestly, it's like there's just something to it. But it's kind of like people's fantasy teams. Most people will hear you but don't want to. But I felt like you're very engaged hearing me talk about my range session yesterday. So thank you. I love you, Ben. Yeah, literally, literally, literally yesterday was thinking about my grip. So, like, yeah, again, like I was watching that video. I was like, how's my grip? Like, I think I have a good grip. Like, maybe that's the problem. I think it's not me. It's like all things at golf. It's one thing that then spider webs into 800 trillion different. This is not a, like, yeah. Hey, me and Bluejay is kind of the same. It's like, yeah, George Springer out of the lead off spot would help. Doesn't mean it's good. It's not like the cure all. No, I have a better grip would help. Yeah, I've good. I've literally spoke to, like, and not for myself, but just, like, through work, spoken to, like, golf mental coaches, and it's like, that's the problem for all of us. Yeah, of course. There's too many problems. Of course. Yeah. And maybe, you know, me playing on no sleep coming straight from work is, like, part of the problem. Anyways, absolutely not. Too many discussions. No excuses. Too many digression. I need, God, I should have emailed sports at stats about this. And then you could have come to the mic and been like, they ignored me. And then an hour into the show been like, oh, I actually don't know how to read emails. There it is. Thank you, Steve Fellen. Yeah. Yeah. I just wanted to make sure that everyone remembers that that happened. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. They're good at their job and they respond to my bad at reading. Yes. 40 seconds into a hockey game getting too many men on the ice penalty. Like, what is the record for that? I would imagine the Leafs in the Austin Matthews area to send it because from Babcock, that was the biggest thing about this team. And then you go, all right, Keith's here. Surely at least that'll change and it somehow got worse. I don't know how that happens. If the Leafs haven't done it, I don't know how it happens because they are truly the kings of too many men. I don't know how. Again, so like in a series in which the connects are the decided underdog, despite being the division champions, right? Like, it's the Oilers, man. It's a juggernaut to start this second round series game one 40 seconds. And you put like the best power play in the history of mankind to work. I think that is how it happened actually. I realize that they're going, all right, this Connor, we got to try right away. They're not going to call it immediately. She's got six guys out there, slow them down to play five on five and have a guy's shadow Connor. No, so I don't know how that happens. But if there was ever a theory to it, that's the only one I can get behind is much like you see in the Boston and Florida series. And we'll get to that in a second, but you're not going to call everything. It's like just challenge them right away. Do you have the guts? Do you have the guts? They did. They did. And not surprisingly, the best power play in the history of mankind scored at the tail end of it. Zach Hyman was eight, as opposed to season. Yeah, he had his nine later on in the game, which was less aesthetically pleasing. It was more like Arthur Sealov's not looking like an ancient college or goalie, not saying that he's not, but like, yeah, not a goaltending display. And aesthetically pleasing is not the term you think of for Zach Hyman goals. We've all seen the clips online of like the Zach Hyman drill, which is just throw a thousand pucks in the crease and just hammer them. Yeah, one game does not a series make. Okay. Oilers did blow a four one lead. Stuart Skinner was bad. And I feel like, yeah, if I was going to bank on one of these goal tenders would be Stuart Skinner as opposed to the kid who, I mean, incredible and elimination game winning one nothing, but we only found out who he is like a week and a half ago. And most of us only found that out because JT Miller is wearing his dress shirt practice, even like, wait, who's shirt? And let's also be honest that if the options were mystery goalie acts, Stuart Skinner or Spilloff, you go, what's through that third door with mystery Yeah, you're not a believer in either. I already playing with house money, though, with the performance in the one nothing victory over the Predators in game six not returning back to Vancouver where Oh, yeah, you're talking about. Yeah, it's a hundred percent. Yeah, yep, yep, yep. No, the Oilers not. No, I thought you were talking to Stuart Skinner. I'm like, no, no, no, no. - There's a little bit in the Joel Wal-Spot where they'd like to see him play well. - Yeah, no, no, no. Not at all. - Okay, sorry. - I wonder how different, so again, if I was putting money down, I would still put it on the Oilers. - I feel like I said this yesterday, I'll say it again. I have a series parlay with the cats to wait and the Oilers to win. Feel great about them both. - But how different is the conversation around the Oilers if they lose this series in the second round? Like, they won around against the Kings again. - Yeah. - Again, they lost to the Cup champions last year. - Yeah. Second round, right? In six games to the Expo Knights, so they've won series. - They've made it to a conference final. Got to throw that in there. - Right. - Part of the conversation. - But how different is the conversation in Edmonton if they haven't appeared yet in a Cup final? And they lose this series in which, despite being the road team, they're pretty heavily favored in. - Well, and it'd be in a playoffs where every team that's won has been the team that's been better on special teams and you have the greatest special team unit in this era of NHL history, penalty kill or power play. So I think that you'd have to look at it as a disappointment. The fact that there's no Demko, again, like the way this happens matters to a certain extent, right? If this was Demko and he's in there standing on his head. - Everybody about the Leafs. - To everybody about the Leafs, that's right. It does not matter, except I make those concessions, but then everyone yells at me. - That's right. - Yeah, that's how that works. But I think that with the Oilers that the reason it would be seen as a not just a disappointment, but it would ratchet up the intensity there is just where they're at in their cycle. We've had a lot of conversations about Mitch Marner's contract. Leon Dreyseidel's due one. He plays center. He scored 50 goals. He's won a heart trophy. If we think the Marner contract is going to be expensive, now the argument there is it's almost easier because you have McDavid to kind of balance off there, although Dreyseidel's made noise about we're going to do what's right for us talking about each of those guys individually. So yeah, I think there would be a lot of pressure on that. I think you would still have the, hey, this is a team that's won. This is part of the not won ultimately, but they've made it to a conference final. We can go back through the history of the NHL and say, ah, this is the kind of yo-yoing thing that happens with teams. Now, McDavid is not every other player, so I think you'd compare it a little differently. But yeah, I think it would ratchet up the intensity, but I also don't think it would reach the fervor that has been reached here either. I was also thinking about Rick Talkett, which I came to. I mean, I all season long and how, listen, there are just materially different players on that Canucks team that have taken it from where they were to where they are. And the team that, okay, they didn't finish the way they started, but they did it all counts and they won a first round series against, okay, a lesser light team and predators, but backs against the wall. And how, like, you gotta, if we're firing head coaches and God knows NHL teams are more than willing to do that. We gotta give credit to others, and it's hard not to hear some of the things that Rick Talkett says and not think, man, that guy. And there was an off-ramp to Sheldon Keefe before this season, and there would have been an on-ramp to Rick Talkett before this season. And, okay, maybe, maybe, like, Craig Barouba better, or maybe, like, Rod Brindemore better. Yeah. I like Rick Talkett, too. Like, yeah, that guy could have been the guy. Just for the record, power ranking. Brindemore, Talkett, Barouba. I think I agree with you. Okay. I think that Talkett, Talkett, kind of, you know, he can walk in both of those worlds, you know? Like, no one sitting here talking about Rod Brindemore. Like, he wasn't a run-through-the-wall player, but he wasn't Craig Barouba in terms of, you know, just sheer toughness. Talkett's a little bit of both. Like, Talkett has the connection to the elite, elite-skill guys of his era, and he can understand that mindset. He also knows what it's like to be right there in the trenches, and he just seems to have that attitude about him. And that is the thing that is the through-line with all three of those guys. They do it in a slightly different way. Like, again, we, that Craig Barouba speech, I think they've just been playing it, like, on video boards in the city of Before Game 7, I've seen it so much. But that's the through-line between those three guys, is that they seem to have that intensity about them. And, you know, Sheldon Keefe, I know he was a player, too, but it's not lost on me that maybe it's easier to be those guys when you have that resume, as opposed to Keefe's. And, you know, I'm not knocking Sheldon Keefe's resume as a player. There have been plenty of guys with lesser, lesser resumes than him that have gone on to be great coaches. But, yeah, I also think that when you see those three guys and what they've done, both in the league and now as coaches, and again, I feel pretty differently. Like, for me, there's a big chasm between how I feel about Brenda Moore and how I feel about Barouba. For me, it's not to say I think he's a bad coach, but I'm just not as bullish on him as others. But I think that there is an element of bringing in a guy who can talk tough to these guys and back it up with his own experiences, not just telling you about an experience he saw somebody else go through, or he helped shepherd somebody else through. And, again, I don't say that as a knock on Keefe. I don't think the Leafs didn't get over the hump this year because of Sheldon Keefe. I think there were a million reasons why Keefe played a part in it, but I don't think he is the chief reason far, far from it. But that doesn't mean much like Max Domi wasn't a bad second line center, first line center by the end of this series for the team. But guess what? Austin Matthews clears day upgrades. So I think that's the thing I kind of keep coming back. Well, and when the margins are as thin as they've been over the last decade, maybe I head coach and a goal or like a play is the difference between winning and losing a series. And I'm not even talking about game seven over time, but like the preceding games that are all one goal games and overtime games that have happened over the last half decade of Sheldon Keefe's tenure anyways. Yeah, like maybe Pete DeBore would have made a difference, not that you could have just had him, but although they ruined Joel Edmondson, so he was perfect and now he's not. So I don't know. Speaking of intensity, plenty of it yesterday in Sunrise, Florida where the Panthers sent Jeremy Swamin to the showers. You know, after a couple of periods of play and then continued to pound, lean us all marks. So yeah, no, the Bruins like aren't infallible when it comes to playing incredible defensive hockey turns out you can score on them. You can also get in their kitchen and not the two things are sure possibly they were in their kitchen to such a degree. The David Pasternak went directly at Matthew Chuck coming off the bench. They fought like and it didn't go necessarily well for pasta like what I'm floored. He was actually. But God, just both head coaches saying the right things like that was I think Paul Marie's literally said that was awesome and obviously he had the guy. Yeah, the one that fighting is supposed to do that. Yeah. And it's the six one Panthers and they've even the series. But again, it's hard not to view everything through a Leafs lens man and it's just you look around the playoffs and you look at that series in particular. And there's some guys on this Leafs team that fit in, but not the guys that are also 60 goalscores like I'm right this and this is no offense to awesome Matthews. But doubt he's going at Matthew could Chuck okay in a game that's lost. So I don't disagree with that. I also think you got to be careful with that because I think that is a guy that I don't want Austin Matthews fighting Matthew Chuck. I want Matthew nice to do it like he tried to go at Pasternak and I think that the reason and yeah I'm gonna just like cool it down a second. I can feel myself getting ratched up. The reason why I don't need to turn you into Frank where I'm just like and you know what you're not coming back. But no I'm we love Frank we can't wait for him to come back. But the I think the thing with Matthews is that he took the strides you wanted to see him take from a physical perspective and I actually think it's not lost on me and I know like where we all still don't know whether he had like the flu or he's deathly ill or he broke his leg or whatever happened there. But it's not lost on me that the physicality like after the first couple games did drop off of hair and he was like he wasn't shying away from scrubs he was doing all the stuff we've asked him to. Now that doesn't mean in Matthew Chuck that doesn't mean I don't want to Matthew Chuck as part of the core and to bring it back to the Leafs. I don't think Matthew nice is Matthew Chuck but you have to make sure you find a way to incubate whatever was growing within him in these playoffs and not let it turn into what the rest of the Leafs have turned into quite honestly. Cause we've seen it where this is a group that just has kind of shied away now there was much less of this this year but that's the thing I see that stuff and you're right you go to Matthews and he's the guy that if you're going to say. Pastranak a Chuck but I had the flashback tonight pushing pastranak in his chest that's pastranak trying to fight Morgan Riley yeah saying go me. Yeah it is different though when it's your 60 goal score from a couple of seasons ago doing it. But like do you see that is a great sign from David Pastranak to me that is just nothing other than sheer frustration and do you want that out of your. Yeah no to me like I just see a guy that cares a lot that's all. I would say that that's the thing I would hear your point I don't think lassie Matthews doesn't care. I know but there's a different level of care man you think you think you think David passionate cares more than awesome Matthews that what you're like is that what you're basically hinting at here. Hey yeah I mean you're right to put me on the spot with that question because that's where you eventually connect the dots and and and no like. But yes nobody yes okay no no I'm not I'm not asking you because I think you're wrong I'm just trying to tease this out because this is interesting. Yes but no like it's not even a conscious thing right like I just I don't like and I'm sure Austin Matthews does not point that he fought Stephen Stamkos last year. No no hey that is like who did you want him to go fight who tropped with that it made you feel better on Tampa. No he didn't initiate. And he found himself into that coach so much better for god. Pastranak then it did for Matt like I'm just I hear what you're saying and you would love there to be that. Gurgling frustration of just hatred from the Leafs and that that was not there and I think you're right to point that out. I just think you're not even you're wrong but if we make it about one guy the like idea that Austin Matthews cares immensely less than David pastranak. No not immensely don't don't don't add the immensely there. I just yeah I can't help but see that and think I mean he did he did fight Stamkos last year. Yeah he didn't initiate a fight with Stephen Stamkos he didn't come off the bench and is like oh god I'm going to do whatever it is in my power to yeah relieve this frustration and I have no control over myself which can be there's a negative attack or negative side of that as well but I'm just sorry and I wouldn't be having this conversation if there wasn't this epic level of post season failure. You're not you're not wrong to bring this up I'm not saying anything like I'm not I'm not saying you're wrong in this I just think I think there are a lot of people hearing this and going didn't he did and you're right it's not it is not the same thing being sucked into a confrontation while there's a scrum going on is not the same as what we saw before putting your own personal safety aside in a fight that you know that you're clearly going to get your head caved in if you're David pastranak but feeling like for whatever reason and maybe it's because like you can't control it and you're just like so furious with this person like putting your own personal safety aside like maybe playing in a game seven that you shouldn't shouldn't have played in but we don't know that but we don't know that you're right to read in whatever you want no no like I think this is a good point you're bringing up I just think there has to be some pushback no and I appreciate that because you're right thank you you clip that you say bread that's and just shout out to Justin Brazo and I don't know who the panthers player was does he matter the gift of the post season dancing the walks in and I literally I kept going back and and kept laughing it's so fun the wedding is ten days away we have to nail this this is extremely I need to show that to my wife because my my lovely wife I don't think in all of our years of being married has ever been so mad at me as butchering the first dance at my wedding so all I can think that hit very close to home I'm watching it so good how does it happen do you know how tall Brazil is - oh my god it's so good doing it's okay is this is completely different but is this is this the funniest thing in the NHL that has happened since Ziggy paulphy kissed that guy Oh man we had people miming the brad marsh and licking oh yeah like hey man of course for us in this market and for people that have any vested interest in the NHL or or are people being invested in the Stanley Cup playoffs at large you want the may believes to continue yeah just from an entertainment perspective this series is going to be lights out one more to make it about the Leafs funniest leaf to have been dancing with the brain like it's Mitch Barnard or is it not it's like it's one of the two I feel like it can't it can't be Pontus Holmberg No you know what would be if it was Justin Brazo yeah Nick Robertson because he'd be carrying him around like it was like like a grand-dod like a grand-dad like grand-child being on his skates Yeah oh god all right that was fun what a gift good job I can't believe him but say it good job Bruins good job Panthers yeah all right when we come back Vlad three for five but they're all singles what is the lowest acceptable bar for him going forward and is there a scenario where we don't have clarity on the may believes head coach by tomorrow that more next fan morning show continues Ben Anis Brent Gunning sports at 590 the fan introducing master's largest two OSU V made for power and elegance and meaningful journeys the first ever master CX 70 mile hybrid in line six turbo
