(upbeat music) - This nation, time has come to say goodbye. Writing down a note, to send the get out didn't seem like enough and I do plan on taking a little break from media. So here I am. I'm forever grateful for the opportunity coach of Toronto Maple Leafs. The dream come true for a boy from Brampton. I wanna thank Kyle Dubas, Lou Vermorello, Brad for Living, Brandon Pridham, Brandon Shanahan, Larry Tanabam and the MLSE board for giving me this opportunity to work with the Marley's and Leafs. I didn't get it done in the playoffs. I didn't help push our team over the line and deliver. I accept responsibility for that. No excuses. That's the job I didn't get it done. It's the reality of the business and I accept it. To the players I appreciate all your efforts. Your talents and your work ethic made me look good on a lot of nights. Anyone who suited up for Blue and White, I appreciate you. To the support staff of the Maple Leafs, you're tremendous people. You're a lead at what you do. Players and support staff will drive the team to success. I believe it will win. Leafs nation, you deserve your Stanley Cup. Your passion at home and on the road is unmatched. It's an incredible honor to coach some Maple Leafs. Try to deliver for you. To the media. How to deal with you every single day, sometimes twice a day, three times a day. I appreciate your process. I've respected the fact that you're honest and fair. I had a job to do. I hope you appreciated the fact that I helped you do it. I don't know what comes next, but I know I'll be ready for it. In the meantime, I'll enjoy giving my family the time that they deserve. Love you all, and be well. Bravo, producer Jeff as a party. All right, our guy, you know, Santos, I don't know. Ever again, it's Friday and it's the Fresh Bridge Belair. Every Friday, seeming around here. Just me and Azo, Will Smith in the living room. Where is everyone gone? There's no Santos. I have no Ben here. We have my man, Command Drew, behind the glass. And we have you, Jesse Ruben off with us. Rubes, how's it going, man? Good man, that was unbelievable. So emotional. That was well done. Very, very emotional. Just like, again, you know, no jokes about a man losing his job, but it is a touch easier when the man has a contract extension that you have to kick in. It does make it more palatable. A little more palatable, a little more fertile ground. The best one I saw was Sheldon Keef delivering that message from heaven. That was him from the afterlife, floating above it all, stress-free of Leif's nation. I mean, man, a million things have been said, a million things to say about Sheldon Keef's tenure as Leif's head coach. I got a lot to say, so at risk of me not shutting up, I'll open the floor to you, Rubes. What was your first blush reaction? You know, for me, I'm about to give my opinion. My first blush reaction was, why did this have to happen an hour after I stopped talking professionally for the day? That one makes sense. I'll be honest. That was my first reaction. I feel like people in our business are very of two minds on these stories, like, eh, eh, good, somebody else's problem. I'll deal with that tomorrow or, I want to my kick at the can. So I'm about to take my kick. Now I will shut up, and as for your opinion, Jesse Rubenoff, what did you think? Oh, incredibly obvious move at this juncture. You can only get, you know, so many attempts at breaking through, broke through once in five years. That's not good enough. And it remains to be seen if the hard thing is going to be done now, because that feels like that was sort of the easy move that needed to be done. It was a bridge too far to bring a guy back who's had that many opportunities. But I mean, it sets up an incredible press conference today without a shadow of a doubt, where you're looking at, are they going to shield the core again? Is this going to be a situation where they talk about, we believe in our guys. We believe that we're close. And I do wonder if that is the messaging. What does the fan base do in response? Because you wonder if apathy starts to set in, if that's the messaging, they run a real big risk here of alienating a big portion of the fan base. So it just sets up an incredible press conference today that everyone will be keen on watching. Yeah, it sets it up. It obviously eliminates a very obvious question off the top. If they hadn't made an announcement yet on Sheldon Keefe, that would be first, second, third, maybe fourth questions, because you'd want to be rooting around in there. It does kind of take something off the table. In terms of Keefe's tenure here, you know, I went on Calgary Radio last night and then I was thinking about this more. And you know, I suppose this is the more I think about it. I can't tell if this is super profound or the most obvious thing ever. So you're about to tell me. But it feels like very much Sheldon Keefe's tenure is just a microcosm for this entire Leafs era of, yeah, you can call it the Matthews era and it started with Babcock here. But this thing really got going in earnest once they made the coaching change and moved on from Mike Babcock. There was the fateful last game in Pittsburgh where Gino Malkin had a, he ripped a clapper from the hash marks about nine seconds in and that should have been all you needed to know about how engaged the Leafs were that night. And then the next day, Tyson Barry scored his first goal as a Leaf. And that was kind of your off and running now. Tyson Barry Leafs memories. I know we're trying to be happy here. I look at Sheldon Keefe and I think that it's a guy who did a lot of good things, much like this Leafs group. He has a lot of, he has a lot of regular season accolades. He can point to and say, look at all the things he would never say I accomplished. But we as a group accomplished, but ultimately when all the chips were down and much like every star player on this team, you can sit there and you can parse it and go, well, but, but this, but Matthew is the tip in game six against Tampa three years ago. But Justin Hall picked penalty. But sleeper agent, double agent, mule, Alex Gell-Chetty, expinning backhand pass into the slot. You can do all that. And we have, Lord knows I have, you guys yell at me for doing it all the time. But I think that it is just like this Leafs era. So many times coming so close, was it always his fault? Absolutely not. Were there times he was to blame? Absolutely. I think much like Keefe and much like if there's a core player that gets moved on from, there's gonna be very green pastures ahead for this guy. But I felt like it was just the time had come. And I feel that in kind of several ways as, as Leaf had coach, I feel even if there wasn't going to be a change to the core, and I think there will be, we'll get to that. But even if there wasn't going to be, you can only have the same voice for so long. You know, you look at Cooper, you look at Bednar, the two guys that were longer tenured than him. They won. It's easier to, you know, and not that he was yelling at him time in and time out. And I think we have this idea of Keefe is kind of both a tyrant and a player's coach. And I think that's what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to kind of walk both lines. Your players should know what to expect from you. But yeah, when I look at Keefe's tenure, it is just somebody who ultimately came up short and did a lot of good things. It's much like the entirety of this Leafs era. >> When you think about where they were, you know, when he stepped in, they were a team that needed a new voice, like you said, needed to grow defensively. And I think he did a lot of really good things. And that's reflected in being the winningest regular season coach in Toronto Maple Leafs history. But when you look at the playoff performances, for whatever reason, something changed there. The offense dried up considerably every single year, except for one, the power play was 15% or worse. So it's very easy to point to the things that did go wrong for Sheldon Keefe. But what I really hope doesn't happen here is he is the one that is now assuming the responsibility. And you heard him talk about in the video being like, it's on me, I didn't get the job done, yada, yada, yada. >> We know where he learned that, that's the Kyle Dubas Jack Campbell School of Management right there. >> But he's the only one that has basically ever done that. And for the Leafs fans, I think you have to look at this core now and be like, why aren't you the ones that come out and say, I was responsible in part for where we were. We need to be better as a team, but I need to personally learn how to perform in the playoffs better than I have been. Because there are guys, and you can point to exactly who we're talking about. You can point to the guys that haven't been good enough in the postseason. And it just doesn't feel like there is that culture of accountability. Now Sheldon Keefe is the only one that has been like, yeah, it was my fault. And it took him really until that press conference where he knew his job was probably done. And for that video from heaven, to be like, yeah, I'm the one that's responsible for it. >> So I'm always, I'm always up to minds. I don't think Sheldon Keefe is un-earnest in what he's saying there. I think he believes everything. But I also think he knows that's what he has to say. If there is any way that that message is going to be received positively. I mean, I suppose he could have just said, hey, Leafs Nation, it was an honor, boy from Brampton would have loved to have done it for seven more. The seven I got to do it for were special. See you later, I suppose he could have done that. But it to me, I won't say it's lip service because I think he believes everything he said. But I've been arguing with buddies about this. And this is the problem with this series going the way it did. And it finally be in the breaking point here is that would you have loved Austin Matthews to have taken the podium? There's that famous one of Nathan McKinnon before they won the cup going, I've been this league nine years, I haven't won belief. Would I have loved that? Of course. I am not going to sit here and tell you I wouldn't love it. Would that be a great sign of things to come? Absolutely would. It's also pretty hard for me to tell Austin Matthews you walk up there and say it's your fault when he won them a game single handedly and then missed half the series. And then connected with William Newlander for the only goal they scored. I'm not saying he is absolved to blame. I'm not saying he shouldn't shoulder some of it, of course. But to ask him to go up there and be like, guys, it's all my fault. I miss, I know, I know I missed half the series and won us one of the three games we won. I won us single handedly, but it's my fault. William Newlander, I know I missed half the series. And I also won us a game single handedly and I actually scored the only goal in game seven, but it's, and I couldn't see at the beginning of the series, it's my fault too. There are guys that you need to hear it from. Like John Tavares, I have made my piece with the hockey robot that he is. It does not irk me one way or another, but if he could tap into some emotion for these end of seat, like, I think that would go a long way for a lot of people. For me, God, if you heard that from John Tavares, would that not be anything other than, Oh, plug the USB key in and this is what PR told them to say, I think that's how a lot of people would receive it. There's one guy we're talking about with this. Yeah. And it shouldn't be on one guy. I want to be very clear about that. The failings of the core four, the core five, the key fairer, the Babcock era, the Shanna plan is not on one guy, but I think with this one, particularly, they want to hear from Mitch Merner. They do. And it's unfair that that's where it falls. But for me, again, you know, I know people are going to say, it's excuses. What about all the other times I'm talking about right now? Hard for me to ask that for Matthew's, hard for me to ask that for me, Lander. Tavares, I don't expect it from Morgan Riley, I guess didn't say the exact right word, but to me, that was certainly contrite. Yeah, I agree. And again, it's ridiculous. Talking about it like they, they killed a man. They just played poorly in a playoff series that the grand scheme of things, we do need to remember that. But I think that's the one person that want to hear it from as Merner. And I'll just let me double down for the nine thousandth time and say it, it ain't fair. But when you're the local boy who's supposed to care the most and this part has to be included this year, no one's 100% healthy at the playoffs. But of all the guys, he was the most healthy, he had played leading into it. He didn't miss any of the games. That's who you want to hear it from. And I think that it all kind of stems from there. So not that people aren't mad at Merner and not, sorry, not, they're definitely mad at Merner. Not that people aren't mad at math. These aren't mad at knee lander. I think I'm more in the minority there. But when you know what these guys are, I don't know what the idea of the lip service of them coming out, like William knee lander comes out and goes, oh, it's all huge goes full Jack Campbell. It's all my fault. I'm the worst player ever. Anybody believe that really? You honestly believe that and does that make feeling better? It certainly doesn't have much mileage for me. Yeah. This idea that they come out and say, you know, you mentioned Tavares and how it doesn't affect you. But to hear players come out when you lose in the first round, again, for a seven time in eight seasons and say that they're close, it's just not true. Like you can, you can, I guess, look at it. That part's totally awful, half empty, whatever you want to say, oh, the team that they've lost to have gone on to lose a Stanley Cup final a bunch of times, which actually means that they're close. But no, you have to win 16 games to win a Stanley Cup. And the fact that they have only won five at the most in this era means you are, in fact, not close at all. You don't even know what it's like to come close to winning a Stanley Cup just because you played a team that went on and had a good run. A million things can happen over the course of a first round or a second round or a third round to a Stanley Cup final. But you have won one playoff series. So the fact that eight years into this thing, and shall look you've only around for five years, we just deserve all the blame in this situation. But the fact that eight years later, you're still saying you're close when really, you can look at this team and say, are they any closer than they were four years ago, three years ago, two years ago? I don't think so. The jury completely remains out on that one until they show you. It's not fair to say that they're any closer. So I think that is really the disappointing thing. And that's why you need to hear some sort of accountability. And that's why I'm not sold that just changing the coach is enough because these guys can choose not to listen to a coach can quote-unquote begin a new culture. But a lot of times, guys can just be like, eh, whatever. We've had Babcock, we've had Keith, now we're going to have Baroobay. And what if they just say, eh, we didn't really respect the job that you did. You got a hot goal when you won the Stanley Cup. Eh, we didn't really care. So okay, let's go there. You mentioned Baroobay. He seems to be far and away. Bedding favorite. It seems, I mean, there are people half wondering if they're going to, if their first act at this press conference will be in now. For my next trick, here's Craig Baroobay. He walks right through that door. I think there are some people that could see, I personally think they, even if they're ready to make the announcement, I can, I think they kind of want this conference to stand alone. So I don't expect that to happen. Man, there's a million places to go with this. I want to go back to the power play. But sticking with who's next is that, do you have a, do you have a hard and fast, this is my guy? Are you open to a lot of different names? I, I'll just say, I've stated this before, you know, where I stand on Baroobay. I have no problem with them going with that route. I understand the idea of it. I just would have, if that, if they feel he is the best candidate now, they should have pulled the trigger on this in January or whenever we were most loudly speculating on it. Because this is a guy that has results of doing exactly that. I don't know that you get the same bump from a Craig Baroobay with him starting camp fresh. Now, this is also an organization that for five straight years had to hear, well, Sheldon keeps never had a training camp. So I'm sure they very much wanted to have a regular training camp and starting fresh. I think there is an element to that and letting Keith, who they think is a good coach, getting a one final kick at the can, I can understand all of that. But if you were going to do Baroobay, we have the proof of what he is absolutely best at. And to your point, I think a big chunk of it is riding a hot goalie to a cup, but, you know, well, that's neither here nor there. He also has, is a proven motivator. That part is true that I would have just, and I didn't think it was necessarily the right call to hire, or sorry, to fire Keith in January. But if you always felt in the back of your mind, and I think if Baroobay is hired quickly, there was an element that it was always kind of lurking back there, then this is something you should have done in January. That's where I'm at on Baroobay. Yeah, I think that's fair. I think you have to go back to someone who has experience clearly, like, I have the Mike Badpock, but Badpock was a very unique character and very unique figure. And his methods were very different and some would say odd, and then went in that direction, but he was a guy who had one cubs, a guy who was experienced. And then you tried the Sheldon Keve coming off the Calder Cup win with the Marlies, and then he's the rookie head coach, and you see what he can do. Maybe these guys will respond to someone who's a little younger, a little close to their age, a little more relatable. And that worked for a considerable amount of time, at least in the regular season, but not in the post season. And now you're trying to find a way, a coach that can motivate them in the post season. And it's funny that I say that they should go back in the direction of experience. I just think that is the one that has the best chance of having them actually respond, because if you bring in another keef-type guy, I just don't think there's enough there, enough different necessarily. The one thing that I would say about why Burubei isn't, I don't think he's going to be at the press conference today, is if the Keynes gets swept. And Rod Brindenmore can't figure it out with the hurricanes. You might have to go in there with a absolute Godfather offer, because you talk about motivators, you talk about a really good head coach. That is the next guy I think that you would look to, so maybe you'd delay it as long as he can until the hurricanes are out in school. I, every insider we have talked to that has been the first, well, I'll alternate. Sometimes it's him, sometimes it's Joel Quenville. Those are my first two questions regarding the least head coach. Everybody seems to be pouring cold water on it. Kipper brought up, I think the best case in point about it. Last year he was in the exact same spot, I suppose one year more left on the deal. So maybe it's a little more awkward. And the Rangers were coming heavy and, you know, it means a lot to be head coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs. It means more than it does, quite frankly, to be head coach of the New York Rangers. But for a guy who's been applying his trade in the States for so long, you know, I'm not going to pretend like Carolina and New Yorker are next door, but it's certainly closer to Carolina and Toronto. You know, I just, I think there is some element of him kind of wanting to stick it out and figure it out in, in, in Carolina. So that is my guy. Like, if I could just pick somebody, Brindenmore is, oh, he's perfect. He can walk in the room, he can, he can relate to Matthews as a silky guy. He can slam the cup ring as a player out front on the table. I think there's, there's some, there's some element to that. That would be my, my guy. I don't think it's happening. No, everyone's poured cold, cold water on it. So yeah, I mean, Barube, I, I can certainly understand it. All of the other names, and I think this is part of the, or it's not part of the problem with this group, but it's what, what exactly do you need? Because I think there is going to be such a natural to shake up just that it's not Sheldon Keith. The personality of everybody is going to be so different. And I think the other thing is that for so many of the guys on this team, or at least the guys that matter, Sheldon Keith is one of, if not the only professional coach. They've known. Yeah. Matthew's Marner. I mean, yeah, the Babcock stuff. Sure. But it's like the two of them. And that's it. And again, not that, not that Marner and Matthews haven't worked with great coaches and other stops in their life, but it is going to be jarring to have a, have a new voice in there. I, again, yeah, I have no problem with it being Baroobay. I think if they want them, they're going to have to act. That's what everybody seems to be, to, to be saying there. But yeah, so I would, I, I would definitely would be okay with Baroobay. He wouldn't be my first choice. But I don't, I think the thing I keep coming back to is outside of one of the Godfather names that's out there, like there's some prayer Mike Sullivan out of Pittsburgh. John Cooper. I don't see that happening. John Cooper, I actually think, I don't think it'd be bad, obviously, but I think there's a small chance that that would end up disastrously here. John Cooper loves to sit there in opine for a thousand years. And that's fine when you're in, that's fine when you're in Tampa. But we pick at everything here. And I think that there's just a couple of times the foot would go into the mouth. I think that's an excellent take. And hey, maybe as, as a cup winning coach, you can, you can stand all that and overcome it. I think that's very fair to point out. But yeah, Cooper, I don't know that I actually think he'd be the perfect fit. I think the three for me and two of them feel, I mean, all three of them feel super unlikely is Brenda Moore Sullivan or Quenville. Those are the three guys that I think I would feel great, that this is a 1000% upgrade over. And even if it's a lateral move, I understand why it had to happen because the boys have probably just grown stale. But I don't know that a Gerard Galant, a Todd McClellan, any of these names that are bandied about are a clear upgrade on on Keith. I was looking at the odds, what do you think about Guy Boucher at 10 to one? I do not like that at all. The guy, sorry, I'm sorry. The guy who's responsible for the power play. Those were the odds. That guy always spit out my coffee. So I don't, I suppose part of the answer is if you're, there's no sense in firing someone you have under contract, especially if the guy you're bringing in wants to work with them. But if you're changing Sheldon Keefe, there can't be two or three voices hanging around from the previous prize by that, I don't think, I mean, we've all made our Manny Mount Holter jokes of what is it he does here. He's brought in to do the power play. It's stunk. They brought in somebody else. He's still there. But I don't think it's Manny Mount Holter's fault that this team has struggled. But if the idea is had, everything's too similar, everything's too safe, everything feels too the same. He is as much a part of the furniture as anybody. And I'm not saying that just about him. You know, you look at, you look at Dean Chan out, he'd been here for a while as well. You look at Mike Van Ryan, now he just kind of came in. There is some belief that Barouba and Van Ryan played together. Maybe there's a connection there. So I understand not moving on from any of the assistants until you let whoever your head coaches talk to them, interview them, see if there's a fit there. But if any of them were going to go, it should have been Boucher, in my opinion, because he had his car keys on the power play, the power play stunk. And I don't, again, I don't think it's a key Boucher's fault that the power play stunk. I'm going to point to the guys who get tens of millions, well, not tens of, but $10 million a year to be good in part on the power play. I'm still going to put it on them. But I, the idea that he would be even in the mix is, I mean, infuriating quite honestly. It does feel a bit odd that in this organization, there's almost like a trial run from your boss every time someone else takes over. Like Brad your living comes in, Sheldon Keith gets the trial run, gets the new contract extension just so he won't be a lame doc head coach. And then ultimately he's fired and he's paid out to just sit on a boat on a lake somewhere like he was yesterday. And you wonder now with Keith Pelley coming in as president of MLSC, Brendan Shanahan, it appears is going to be a part of this press conference, which would suggest that his job is safe. And you wonder if that is the same sort of situation where Pelley's coming in, Shanahan gets a trial run of sort of a year, see if things can change, see what the process is like, and maybe that's the same thing with the head coach and the assistants. You're bringing a head coach, someone, these assistants are guys who've worked with Ruby in the past, you sort of wonder, hey, is this something that would work, do you get another trial run here? And it's just, you wonder if that is the best avenue for the organization to be taken to just delaying the inevitable it feels like for a year, just to give these guys one more kick at the can. >> Whoever it is can get one. I don't care, but I do care, it can't be Gui Boucher, but any of the other assistants, you could pick one and they can stick around even, even Manny Melholtra who again feels, it feels like he's been here longer than Keith, there's no way that could be true. But it feels, I feel like he was playing when I don't know, it's like time is a flat circle. >> Yes, definitely. >> A lot to talk about from the press conference, we'll do all that shortly and the press conference, you didn't miss it. There wasn't one yesterday, it's coming today, they had pushed it back. Keep mentioning the power play on if I like to do blame pie a lot in terms of who wears the blame. Can you blame pie for what are the things that cost Sheldon Keefe his job? How big a percentage is the power play to you and do you think it's the biggest thing among them? >> No, I think if you look at the actual games themselves and the results of why they were, you know, why the least ended up losing, I think the power play is significant. But I think time was just a factor in Sheldon Keefe's tenure more than anything, like you only get so many opportunities to try and get over the hump and you couldn't. And yes, the power play was a big chunk of that, but if the power play is not clicking, then you have to find another way to win and they just couldn't do it. So I don't know if I'm giving it a percentage, I would give it maybe 20%. Yes, ultimately, yes, more successful power play and we've seen that with the Oilers in the postseason, five on five, they haven't looked great. Their power play has been clicking at almost 50% the entire postseason run and it's been really helpful, but ultimately there's other ways to win hockey games and they just couldn't figure it out. So give me a 20% there. Okay, yeah, I mean, one of the ways to win a hockey game, she just have the best goal in the world who never feels like giving up a goal. Shostorkin has been, has been doing a lot of that in the second round series. Only 40 some odd saves last night though. So honestly, lazy bum do do more. There are many ways to do it. Power play has to be chief among them and, you know, maybe I really do think how you feel about the power play is it kind of just over, it expands to how you feel about the job of a coach as a whole, because this is not me sitting here saying coaches don't matter or I'm indifferent to all these different coaches. That's not true. I think the personality stuff matters and the ability to kind of shepherd a team through a season and understand the emotions and understanding what buttons to push. I think that stuff is way, way more important. But again, when I look at the power play struggling, yes, where they're coaching adjustments that could have been made 1000%, there's, you can't tell me with all that talent, there's not somebody that couldn't have come in here and said, eh, why don't you stand here and you stand here and made it work a little better. But I ultimately go back to the, to the players. I mean, you have the best goal scorer on the planet and two of the more, I mean, arguably a top three or four most creative winger in the league in Mitch Marner and as dangerous a, you know, down low threat as there is in William Neelander, you throw in, you know, John Tavares who say what you will about him, but at five on, or at five on four, the idea of standing in front of the net and being a danger, that's still very, very capable for him. I put it on the players so much more than I, than I do the coach ultimately them not being able to do it is a do it on the power play is a big reason why they faltered in the last couple of playoffs or not the last one before that. But the, the two out of the last three years. So I think you have to keep coming back to it, but yeah, I do, I do put it on the, on the players. Every opportunity, like they had every opportunity in terms of ice time, you know, they were the guys, they had every opportunity to step up and they didn't do it. Like he shielded them from the media many, many times and he criticized them once and that had to walk it back. So if, if, if you gave Sheldon Keith, you know, you, you, you don't give him a full time machine, but you say you can go back and reverse course on kind of one or two moments. How chief among them do you think would have been maybe taken the team to task more publicly early on? Because I, it's so easy to do revisionist history with it. If you just come out and do it. And now I think he could have done it later on in the tenure, I, but this was a guy who's coming in to not be Mike Pabcock. He had to come in and have a little bit, a little bit of kid gloves, at least in terms of how they were handled publicly. And I think that is just such a tough switch to make. And hey, that's maybe part of the reason this change could have come two, three years ago. And that is a fair criticism, but I don't think that's a criticism of Sheldon Keith. I think that's criticism of who made the call to, to keep him. And again, I am somebody who thought Keith did a good job, had a good tenure and understood why he was here throughout this entire run. Yeah. I just think at some point when you're here for five years, you can't constantly be shielding your players all of the time. Like if you, if you play this sliding door game and you look back at what could have changed Sheldon Keith's fortunes. I think the series against the Habs has to be first and foremost. And then the, whatever you want to call it against the Columbus blue jackets was the other one. And it's funny because if you were to look at just the injury situation in this particular series, you could make a very good case that, yeah, that happens. That's a really tough luck and it can be excused, but not when it's happened year after year after year. And it feels like the 2021 series in the blue jacket series is when they blew it, when he should have been a little tougher on them, when the regime should have changed in terms of his approach and making his adjustments and it never really came. And as a result, this is what you end up getting. This is the hard thing about, about Keith is that we, we like, and like I'm not excusing myself. I'm as guilty of this as anybody. We like to be so binary in our thinking of he's soft on the players. And I don't disagree with anything you said. And you mentioned that Montreal series. I saw it making the rounds a ton yesterday, the clip right before, and I forget which game it was where Alex Geltrennjock decided to just revert back to being a Montreal Canadian there. But there's a speech he is before that over time. And it looks like the Craig Brubey speech before game seven. He calls out Maddie, Mitch, and Himes, Zach Hyman, God, how we miss you. Remember the, remember the fun days when Zach Hyman was wearing the right blue and white? He says, Maddie, Mitch, Himes, your line is getting bleeping dominated. That is as pointed a criticism in front of everybody of your star players you could possibly ask for. And then you know what the Leafs did? This will shock you. They went out and out shot Montreal 11 to 2 in that overtime and lost the game because of various reasons, because they're the Leafs. And that is not to say that, hey, that was a great performance, but that was a good coaching performance. He clearly motivated that group to go out there. So again, there are a million things he could have done differently. But I think we have this idea and so much of it is because he was the guy that came after Babcock. I think that's the other part of it is if there would have been a, I guess sacrificial lamb isn't what you would wanted to do and you never could have put a guy in that spot. But they probably, honestly, you know, who would have been the guy in that spot after Babcock in hindsight, knowing they wanted to hire Keith. And I don't even know I should probably go look at what he was doing at this point in time. You're a member of Spudro. You fire babes in the middle of the season. All right. It's Gabby and the kids. Let's go. Let's see what happens. Now, this is kind of like what happened with him and Vancouver. So maybe he didn't want to also take another job where they have their quote unquote kind of real coach in mind. But if they want to just done that and Gabby gets to be the fun guy and then they go, all right, that's not working either. Let's bring in. Here is our, you guys are all hot young studs. Guess what? So is he. Would it have been different then now again, sliding doors? There's a reason they couldn't wait to hire Kyle Dubas as their GM because the avalanche wanted them. I imagine somebody would have came a call in on Sheldon Keefe. But yeah, that's another thing that you just wonder how different the tenure could have been sliding doors. Got them. Yeah. Yeah. There's so many different opportunities where you can look back and say, Oh, well, if that would have been different, then, you know, maybe this, this would have worked out. But I do. I do think, man, like what a great hindsight idea by me. Why didn't the Leafs just hire Bruce Boudreau after Mike Babcock? What? Oh God, I'm so smart. Five years later. Boudreau is still an option. Yeah. But, but the point that you're making is that the timing is different and now they're looking for a different voice. Oh my God. I'm looking for a serious, like a, it's not serious, but they're looking for a meaner, sort of tougher guy on the players. And I think your point about Keith, you know, at times calling out the teams, it is a good one because I think we lose that over the course of, you know, five seasons. There are moments where that happens. When you do have to choose your spots and he understood the assignment, he understood that part of the culture that I think Kyle Dubas was trying to have as, you know, GM of the Toronto Maple Leafs was, hey, this is a new regime. We're not trying to be Mike Babcock here and we're trying to be a little bit easier on them. But one time or two times or three times over five years is probably not enough when you need the very best from your guys in the postseason and just never came. And we talk a lot of things are, are perfect, you know, kind of distillations or microcosms of a bigger picture of things. Sheldon Keith, is it a different thing if he gives that speech before the first period of the game, as opposed to waiting till over time? How many times do we see much like this Leafs core down three one, heading into the third. Here they come. Oh, backs against the wall. They're going to get swept. I mean, they almost did against the Panthers, but generally speaking, they come back. They have a go of it. And it, again, it's like, does that all stem from the coach? A fair question to ask. Yeah, like the game three against the Panthers was just a disaster. I can remember think back to that when they just did not show up first, there's two goals in the first minute, 20 of the second period, whatever it was. There were just so many times where it felt like they weren't ready to play. And that is truly something that is indicative of a head coach. Yes, it's the players, but the coach has to have your guys ready to go as soon as the puck drops. And it just felt like there were too many times under Sheldon Keith that the Leafs did not show up right from jump. So tough, because that was always the baptism, right? Start on time, start on time. And the other thing that I, I, I, again, this would be a common theme for the Sheldon Keith air and my commentary on it. I don't know that it was totally his fault, but hard not to blame him for them leading the NHL and bench minors over his time for too many men. I know franchise is out. And again, he, like, he can't have a get back coach. This isn't NCAA football or like the Sean McVay's guy to pull him back off the sidelines. But you have to find a way that is just, that is just simple coaching. Like that is just pay attention. I forget who it was. Somebody told a story, maybe it was Boudreaux about having, or I forget, somebody told a story about taking over a team. And that was one of the first things that, why are you guys taking all these two any men penalties? Let's, do I have to blur, do I have to teach you guys how to change? And he did. Out of practice. So it's not like a microcosm of like a lack of accountability and not to say that was necessarily the case because, you know, there were times, I think when, you know, he had his processes and he did hold them accountable to some degree, but it's kind of indicative of like a lax culture. Like they can, they, the inmates are running the asylum a little bit and you end up having a, so many bench providers over the course of your tenure. It is funny. I talk about him not criticizing the players enough, but I do think inch for Sheldon Keefe. That is something that when you're going for an interview for your next job, you can actually spin to your advantage and say, Hey, I'm a guy who's, who's loyal to his players. I'm going to have their backs when they need it the most and whether he's going into Pittsburgh eventually or the New Jersey Devils. I think that's actually something that is beneficial to him. And he can also say he can also point to it and say that, you know, I don't think he should say I was like scared to criticize the players, but he can talk about it being creating a much different ripple even in a New Jersey or a Pittsburgh or wherever his next NHL home is, whatever he says, just carries, sorry, infinitely less weight. And it just doesn't become a six day news story. Sheldon Keefe called the team soft and purposeless two years ago, walked it back and we have not stopped talking about it like it's the NASM cadre trade. Like it is just that is a, that, that pinpoints it perfectly. How much different it is here. So much to get to got a big presser coming up today. Of course, we'll have that for you on the network. And did the Leafs second line center for next year have a five point game last night? What am I talking about? Well, I'll tell you next. I'm Justin Cusford. I'm going to bring a little wisdom from Mike Francis at everybody, you know, normally Ben is both the a chair, which means the ins and outs. That's a little behind the scenes for the show. But this is so inside the industry. Even I didn't know about it. Ben also sits in the power chair as Francesca called it. And that's me today. So I get to look as though and our man command drew in the eyes as I do the ins and outs. So yeah, I'm just, I'm thrilled to be here big day, big day for us today, big day because you're here as well. The beach air and the week chair is that you as a person right now are the beach here. That's great. Because you and quite honestly, again, in radio, like it's not as it's not as high profile, but it is a way more fun job to just sit there and have an opinion. And then it's like, buddy, you do the work, the reader, you know, say the thing. I'm just here for for a good time, not a long time. But yes, so I and but I don't think it's called the week chair. We probably just shouldn't talk about it. Seeing as it's the one I sit in yet every, every day. So a couple guys are going to be sitting. I imagine they'll be sitting in chairs. I feel like it's going to be a lengthy press conference. Sure. Shouldn't be like cashiers where they have to stand the whole time. Can we get them a chair? I don't know why. But I imagine for a living, Pelly, I imagine Shanahan will be sitting up there at the podium today. You've talked about it. What do you think will be said and what do you think people want to hear? Because I think those, not necessarily, but those can be very, very different things. What do you, let's start with what you're expecting. What are you expecting to hear today? I actually am expecting them to sort of have a, they're not going to phrase it as we believe in the core because that would be nuts to do that with this fan base up and arms the way that they are. But I do think just we can and we will do this style. Yeah, yeah, I really do think there is going to be some semblance of trying to steady the ship and say like, hey, yes, justify that they were maybe closer than they actually are. Like I really do believe that this management probably thinks that they have a lot of really good pieces and you don't want to alienate them. But what I would prefer them to say is, yeah, we have not gotten the job done for X number of years and now it is time to explore every avenue that we have at our disposal to try and improve the team and get the fan base, give them what they deserve. And that is a team that wins more than one round in the postseason and doesn't fail in the first round seven times out of eight years. And it may make the players uncomfortable. But the majority of them who truly matter have no moves and we could talk about whether that's that influences and how that works and whatever. But I really do think saying that you are going to explore every avenue to try and improve the team is something that needs to be said today. Now these are these are reporters asking the questions. This is not Mike and Mimico with with the mic because man, that'd be a very different presser. But there's going to be some pointed questions I'd imagine from a from the lens of a fan base. And the reason I think it can be a little, I don't know, maybe awkward, but there will certainly be a dichotomy up there is, you know, if you're asking a question that is pointed directly to Brad for living, how much how much blame can he take for this enough? I mean, John Klingberg would have helped on the power play. If that plan would have worked out, he's not infallible in all this, but he kind of just got here. And Keith Pelly literally just got here. It seems like all of the what is going on? What has been happening for the last eight, nine years of this? That's all going to be put on on Shanahan's lap and I think that is going to be interesting to see the way he handles that because we just don't hear from him often. You know, I think people, I think sometimes people feel he's in hiding. I think that's too strong. I think that you don't want the president of the organization to be taking up all the oxygen unless that's what you want to do. And if that's the case, then Brian Burke or somebody should be your president, somebody that you want to be creating a lot of noise and that is clearly not the job. And I think this is really going to be interesting. The thing I don't, in terms of what I expect to hear, I think you're right. I think it will be some element of there are a lot of good elements here. We need to look at the way we've done things. The other thing too, and I know people are going to want them to take to the podium and say and hold Mitch Marner up by the scruff of his neck and say, anybody want them? It's not going to happen. They're not going to put themselves in a weak negotiating position saying, we want to move on from one of our core players. Everyone knows who that is if that's what they're talking about. So I think there have to be proper expectations in that regard of what you're going to hear. You're not going to hear this a sell off or anything. And I don't think anybody expects that, but it is going to, it is going to be a pretty, not stay the course because they just fired the coach and there will be changes, but it is going to be a bet on star players. I don't know that it will be the stars, but you've already bet on knee lander. You've already bet on on Matthews. People were really just kind of talking about two guys. The thing that I am most interested in hearing from is, how does this all work? So a big, we believe, a big part of the reason that Kyle Dubas, whatever happened there, some of it was about autonomy. And could he just, you know, he could swap third rounders on his own. But if it gets above that, then you got to go last Shanahan and look, if Brendan Shanahan's involved, he should have a say in a Nazemgadry trade or whatever. I want there to be a relationship there. But I think people are very curious as to how this all works. What is the not pecking order? It's a very clear pecking order in this order. Kelly, Shanahan, and then for living. Everyone understands that, but what is the workflow here and how much of a hockey, how much is Brendan Shanahan involved in the, because we don't think it's nothing. No one thinks that. And how much is he involved in the hockey decisions? I think there's going to be a lot of element of that. How did those two work together and how different was it than the last regime? And then obviously we're going to, they're going to get asked about the coaching search and Craig Barube's name, I'm sure will be mentioned. So those are the things that I'm kind of, that's the thing I would say I'm the most interested about from it. Yeah, I think it's such a great point. Like, how much did Brendan Shanahan and Kyle Bosch over the years, like, was Brendan Shanahan taking ideas to Kyle Dubas, like was he a GM sort of sitting there alongside Kyle Dubas? See, I get the, I get the feeling that Kyle Dubas was the, was the GM and the decider. But when it got to a certain point of, and be that a point of in a trade of saying, hey, what do we think about this? The whole point of, of Brendan Shanahan and Kyle Dubas working together is two great hockey minds. One who's been in the game forever. One who's just starting his journey and working together. I don't think we've gotten to this point now where it's always, did he have to go knock on the door? Like, when you go to your parents' room and, hey, Shanny, can I please do this? I don't think it was like that, but I'm curious of exactly what the relationship is there. And that's something I don't know how crystal clear a picture you can paint because I imagine there's not a, I don't think there's a corporate governance policy that says a new trade that involves more than four million dollars, has to go to Brendan Shanahan, anything less, Brad's your living. I don't think that's how it works. I don't think it's that cut and dry, but I'd be curious to hear how that relationship and that dynamic is. We're not going to, obviously he's not going to open up Pandora's box and compare a good dress to Kyle Dubas there. We'll have to do that for ourselves, but that is something I'm curious to hear about as well. Yeah, it's interesting. I don't think it's that uncommon. Like, if you're making a, a decision that you think would alter the franchise in some significant degree, like I would, I would assume that the president of the organization is saying this to put you on the spot because I don't know the answer either. Do you know who the GM is in Colorado? No. Yeah, it's Joe Sackick, right? Right. Like it's not, but it's Joe Sackick and that's how it works across the league. It's just we have such a point of purpose here because it's here. One other thing I am curious about is if they get asked about the coaching search, I don't think this is going to happen. And there seems to be a lack of understanding of exactly what the deal is for lack of a better term with Quenville now. I, again, don't think this is going to happen. betting odds on this would be plus a cajillion. If that's their man and they want him to be their next head coach or at least have the opportunity, there is no time like today to ratchet up the pressure on the league. And when asked about it, you don't have to, you don't have to name just him, but warming his way into an answer. It certainly allows all of us to kind of ratchet that up and then that puts pressure on the league. I don't think that's the route. They're going to take in all this, but I'd be lying to you if I, if that's who they want, and I don't know that it is, but if that's who they want, this is the time to kind of ratchet up the public pressure and use the bully pulpit of being the Toronto Maple Leafs. >> Yeah, I think it's a great point. I do think when they're sitting out there today, I think a lot of the retroactive questions are going to be directed towards Brendan Shanahan, like, what happened? What was the process? Why did you do this? Why was the goal song hauling oats for as long as it was? >> Please. >> Can I just make a request? Please not that. >> You're talking about the goal song. >> Yeah. And then if it's true living, you're sort of asking, what is the plan moving forward? What are you looking for in terms of players? How do you improve the power play? What are you going to do in net? Because Ilya Sampsonov is an unrestricted free agent and Joseph Wall appears to be a little bit injury prone. Like the actual roster questions, which may not be the juiciest because people want to understand why Shanahan still have a job, how does that make any sense? But I do think the things that we can actually look at, we'll shape the roster eventually. You want to have an idea of what your living is going to be looking for in the summer. And those questions, I think, will be asked about that. >> In terms of super pointed questions, this got asked to John Tavares not this year, but last year at end of locker clean out. I do wonder if they get asked point blank about asking Marner and Tavares to waive their their moves. >> No, I think they will be. >> And how they react to that. I think that will be a big, big tell. Because again, they're not going to come out and say, Mitch Marner is up for grabs who wants them. However, we're just as sick of them as quadrants of you are, Leafs. That's not happening. They're going to hold their position that they value that player, but I am very curious to see how they react to that. And I think they're very different. I talked about this a lot yesterday, I'll quickly mention it here again. I think they're very different conversations. With Marner, it is, hey, man, like, it's your whole life ahead of you. What do you want this to be? But both your literal life and your professional life is ahead of you. What do you want this to look like? Does somebody want to give you, I don't know, $100 million? Does that make things easier for you? With John Tavares, it's how do you want this to end here? And I just think, you know, I don't know that they want to do it, but if they wanted to get me nasty about it, it's, hey, wave the no move or work take in the sea. And I don't know that that's where they're at. It might be regardless, even if he's on the team, you can see a transition to that happening. But I do wonder how aggressive they'll get in that regard. That's actually an excellent point. They can play hardball, I think, really, with both guys, if you really want to. Tavares, you have the sea as sort of leverage, which I have a hard time believing that it's something that they would actually do, like hold it over his head like that. I do think there's an opportunity for them to ask him. I would imagine there's already, not already, but I imagine that is a conversation that definitely can happen. But irrespective of the no trade, I think it would be a conversation that would be had, right? Right. Anyway, but I think Marner, you can say, like, look, like the reality is we are not going to sign you for whatever you think you're going to get, $11 million or $12 million. And as a result, we are trying to recoup something. And if you don't want to make the move, then we'll bury you. We'll put you on the third line. You'll get 60 points and you won't be a guy that makes $10 million, $11 million. And yes. He still will. That's a problem. He might. And it's not beneficial to your team because he's obviously a really good player. But so you are playing hardball that might work against you. But it really matters how much you really want to get him out of here. And if you truly do want to get him out of here, he can choose to sulk and you can bury him until he decides to move it, or you can just keep him around. Yeah. And you know, this may be these things bad or a lot. Maybe they matter a little. Who's the next guy, coach, like some smart one to get screen. And I don't say that. I don't say that is a knock on Marner. I know everyone hears and goes, Oh, he just want to get yelled at. No, I just think given my brothers if I could have, I don't know. And again, I think Craig Brube, like there's a reason they want to hire him. He's a good coach. He's a proven winner. Yadda yadda. But I don't know. You could see, look at it. It's the, you know, it's like the two sides of the bus meme. It's like raining on one side and happy and light on one side, you know, they might sometimes good things happen in the rain, but given my druthers, you know, maybe take a walk in the sun side. All right. I did want to pay off the teas. You know, Jason Bukla has been putting all the hype on on Easton Cowan comparing him to Darcy Tucker. So I just figured I would keep more on it here. Five points for Easton Cowan in game one of the OHL finals, including a goal. Secondary sister good when they come from Easton Cowan. I know I use them to disparage Nikita Kuchrop, Conor McDavid, Nathan McKinnon, basically anybody in the heart trophy race who's not Austin Matthews, but when they come from Easton Cowan, they're good. Five points in the OHL final for him. Knights up one nothing on the jennies in the first, that's the OHL final there. So winner of that. What do they just say? Love. They're going to be a lot better and that's why we're going to keep the band together. There's a fourth chair at the podium today and they're like, Oh, they are going to bring out Buru Bay and it's just Easton Cowan sitting there looking looking just adorable at 18 years old, ready to be a menace. People are very excited for him. Yeah. Much more down on Frazier Minton. He lost in the WHL conference final the other day, but did have a big OT winner in that series and a massive sellie, which I didn't think would be in the lexicon for quite honestly a kid coming out of the prairies, like Frazier Minton. So good, good, good for him. We have a lot more on the Leafs. Shocker Blue Jays. They play this weekend. We'll get to them maybe. Sam McKinnon to join us a little later on, Anthony Petreli and Greg Wachinski. It is a loaded fan morning show right here on Sportsnet five nine of the fan.
