[MUSIC PLAYING] Here he is, Alan Manoa, taking the field with two outs to one two. Swing and a miss strike three. Manoa gets kept when it takes the change up low. And he's out of the first inning. In on the graphical match picked up at third, broke the second for one. I pay up to first, double play. Alan Manoa and oni from that make it up for it right away. Manoa reaches back and fired. Swing and a miss strike three. Foul tipped into the glove of Kirkman, who escapes off the mound with a third straight, scoreless prey. Jack Swain, he went around strike three. Strikeout number four, scoreless play number four, for Alec Manoa. It's a four pitch, one, two, three inning for Alec Manoa. He's gone six, scoreless to Blue Jays, trying to help without-- I was about to say sights and sounds, but really just sounds, we're on the radio here. Sounds of the Blue Jays, electric and five, one loss, but it's a lot going on. Even some good stuff from Alec Manoa in it. They dropped two or three this weekend against the Twinkies, but why be all doom and gloom when there was a game where they scored, boom, basically a week's worth of runs for this offense. And Alec Manoa came, came back to life. I think those are definitely two things you want to see on your bingo card. Obviously with the runs, you want to see it more consistently with Manoa, you just want to see them build on this. But if you were going to be asked of things you wanted to see coming out of the weekend, that was certainly up there. Yeah, no, there's no doubt about it. Look, you can choose to look at the negatives with this team over the course of a couple of months into the season here. And there are a lot to choose from. But when you have little successes, little victories, things that you can point to and say, hey, this is something that sort of catapult us forward or put us back on the right track. Getting consistent pitching from these guys is something that can do that. Having Alec Manoa step in the right spots and contribute to this team, I think it's big. I mean, that's a game really with a performance like that from Alec Manoa that you should be winning. And it unfortunately all comes back to the offense. You've seen signs with this offense over the last little while Vladimir Guerrero Jr. has been just on fire over the last little while here. He's up to two 73 on the season in terms of batting average. He's batting 404 over his last 13 games. He's got nine RBI in that span. He had 10 in his first 27 games. So if you're looking for positives and things to get excited about and reasons where the tide could change here, perhaps, having Manoa have a good step in the right direction, Vladimir Guerrero Jr. There are little things, but you need to have it be a more complete team effort. Cause those have been few and far between so far this season. It sounds like I'm joking when I say they're good for one of those a week, but they kind of have been lately. It was a, it was last Saturday against the nats that they put up air Sunday against the nats. That was eight in a loss, albeit Saturday. They put up the 10 spot in the win. When you see this happen once a week for the Blue Jays, does that get, does that let you squint and maybe see a world where, again, it's not going to be eight, 10 runs a night for this offense. We know that, but where you can kind of build and extrapolate from that, or do you see that is just kind of every, you know, broken clock or, you know, right twice a day kind of thing. - Yeah, I think more of the latter, I just, I just want to evaluate this team, you know, when you combine it with last year and some of those numbers as well, I think it takes a lot for this team to score. That's the thing that concerns me. - It is hard, I agree. - None of these guys really hit for average all that well. And there's not a lot of power in this lineup either. And I think a lot of times around the league, what you're seeing is, you know, teams get the three run homer from time to time. They get the two run dong and this has not been the case with the Blue Jays for two seasons now. If you look at home runs, they're, you know, 25th in the league, like there are, the numbers are not there to suggest that they get the big fly when they need it the most. And as a result, you need to string together hit after hit after hit, which is what we saw on Saturday. And that was really refreshing and really fun to watch, but it's kind of hard to keep the chain moving to that degree and when you need that to score, that can be pretty difficult. - Yeah, it's so hard to string together hits at any era of baseball, but it's especially hard, kind of right now in terms of what you see. Just, I mean, every other guy you face seemingly is up at triple digits or at least sniffing it. Everything has tons of movement, everything is nasty. And I don't say that to let the Blue Jays off the hook offensively. I say that to your point of why it is so important to be able to have the Blue and the Blast, the ability to kind of do both there. And they've had the Blue, they've been able to draw the odd walk here or there. It's just been the lack of the true kind of pop. And, you know, it'll shock you. I'm going to make a leaf parallel here. The Leafs are at their best when you have a bunch of guys up and down the forward group where you say, that guy can get you a goal. The Jays, when they've been the best versions of themselves, they'd have guys hitting in the 7/8 hole. He was like, oh, he could run into one. You could easily see that goal. Look at your older brothers, favorite Blue Jays teams of 15 and 16 when they were just mashing, mashing, mashing. And it wasn't just the meat of the order that was due in the damage. You had the ability to do that. And that just isn't the case. I mean, even guys who I think have the ability to become the kind of fringy fan favorite types, Clement, he'll give you a good at bat. He'll find a way to put the ball in play. But that's not what he's there to do is to kind of run into one. And you know, it's something I talked about with Ben is that obviously you just take a winning team over anything. You wouldn't matter if you won at 0 to negative 1 every day. But if the team is not going to be transcendent, if they're not going to be great, it's just so much more frustrating when it comes like this, where scoring is just so hard and runs just come at such a premium for you. Yeah, yeah, there's no doubt. Like you look at, I just talked about Vladimir Guerrero, Jr., and how he's really turned a corner here. He still only has four home runs in the season. And that is big. Like if you don't have that guy in it and this is not again, to take away anything from the fact that he's been really hot in the last week or two, but he's got four home runs and it's May 13th. And this is a guy that you need to hit at least 30 home runs, probably even 40 if your team's going to truly do damage from an offensive standpoint. You banked on those guys, giving you those types of performances. That's why you ran it back. That's what you heard from the front office. You heard them talk about how they believe in in these kinds of guys to give you an outsized offensive performance. And you're just not getting it. And as a result, you're relying on, you know, the Ernie Clemence and the Davis Schneider's. And it's not that they can't get it done. It just feels like you're asking a lot from every single guy in this lineup now. And it just doesn't feel like it's, you know, realistic. Yeah, it is, right? You can ask the moon of Vladimir Guerrero, Jr., given the, I mean, the money he makes, given the place he holds in the org, given the way the team has set this up, you can ask that of him. Boba Shett, you can ask him to be better. 1,000% and you can hope and pray for more out of your Ernie Clemence of the world. But you can't ask for more out of those guys. You can look for other players in the org that can potentially give you more if you feel you need it. But this team has been built in a way that the guys who need to carry the mail really need to carry the mail. And hey, we've stopped giving them credit 'cause it's fallen off a little bit. But Dalton Varsho has been a guy that's done that for this team for the most part this year. So I just, I continue to look at it in that way and that the way this team is built, it's just, it's got to be pitching in defense. And yeah, you can have your one offensive explosion a week and that's probably going to come with a couple of guys running into one, you know, be it a Danny Jansen or somebody along those lines. But otherwise you're going to have to scrape and scrounge and find a way for five runs to be enough. And that goes to the pitching. The pitching has asked to be so close to perfect for this team for the better part of a year and a half now. And I'm not saying you can't continue to ask it 'cause all these pitchers and the starting staff, you know, Alec Manoa excluded for right now, they are all capable of it. But when you ask these guys to be perfect every single time out, how can they not falter here or there? And then how can that faltering not kind of catch up with them eventually? - Man, you say Kikuchi on Friday, just puts up an unbelievable performance. Like not even a hundred pitchers, he really could have come back out for the ninth, but he pitches eight and just a fantastic performance. He's been great. It's a far cry from what he was at the beginning of his Blue Jays career. He is now a fan favorite. He's a guy you can rely on almost every single night out. He is, I think it's six straight starts with at least six innings. But to expect that to be the norm is just so unfair to this group. And you wonder if at some point, does it start to create some sort of a rift in the clubhouse where the pitchers every day say, "Well, I need to hold this team to two runs." And if my offense is probably not gonna score three, so I can't allow anything. And that puts a lot of pressure on you. While it's like nice that the pitchers might feel valued and important. And we need to do our very best. That's fantastic. But at some point, when you say Kakuchi gets hit with an L on a night where he goes eight innings and is sensational, like that has got to piss you off at some point. It has to. - How can it not? You're only human there. The other thing I look at, the other thing I look at with that is I think it has to get to a real breaking point. It's a good thing for these Blue Jays batters though that we've gone away from National League rules 'cause you'd hate to have Kevin Gossman with a slash line approaching yours. If he was bringing it the way he has, and then he also was able to get it done at the dish. Gossman obviously, it's been a weird year for him. He had the slower start. He has had moments where you go, "Ooh, that's vintage Gossman." He's found it. The start this weekend being a rough one, it's one thing, it coming against the twins. I think adds another little extra wrinkle on it. Where are you at on Gossman in terms of the, this is not me saying he's falling off a cliff, but father time is undefeated. This guy who's in his mid 30s had the later start to spring. What are your whole season expectations for Kevin Gossman? And maybe a couple of ways you can frame it, right? It can just be what you expect of him. You could also give me, where does he kind of slide in this Blue Jays rotation? Like if Kevin Gossman is your number three starter, does that set you up for postseason success? Yeah, I think it obviously does not. You need just as Ross Atkins came out and said, he believes in the players and the expectation, is that they're all going to improve internally. What he didn't say there was that we expect the pitching to be the exact same as last year and remain as dominant as it was in the 2023 season. And nothing with the offense would, you needed the pitching to remain as good as it was in order for the offense to bounce back and have the team be competitive. But at this current point in time, like I don't hold anything against any of the pitchers for their performance so far, but it is a bit alarming to have a Kevin Gossman of a 495 ERA and have an opponent's batting average of 298 at this point of the season. Like we know his first start, he was dealing with some velocity issues and people were blaming it on the cold weather and it feels like his velocity has bounced back a little bit here. But I don't think at this stage of his career, the book can be out on him, but it certainly feels like opposing batters are a little bit more comfortable against Kevin Gossman this year than they have in years past. And if you're not going to get the Sayang caliber pitching from Kevin Gossman, then Jose Barrios's Sayang year can only take you so far, you say Kakuchi's been great, but you need Kevin Gossman as unfair as that is. You need a Kevin Gossman to be able to hold you in there for the offense to eventually get on track. And it might never, but you need every single perfect sterling start that you can get from these guys. Otherwise it's going to continue to go south. - Yeah, we talked a little bit earlier about the idea of measuring stick games and what that means. I think for some people rightfully so, this will be a measuring stick series. I don't look at that from the offense because I just have no expectations. It's like over under on Jay's total runs per game is like two and a half to three and a half in this series. And I might take the under. If I was just looking at it, but you have the three horses you feel the best about going in this series, it's going to be Barrios tonight. You got Basset tomorrow, and then you got Kakuchi to close it out. I don't think, by any means, I don't think Barrios is going to get lit up or anything. But if these three guys or any combination of them struggle against an elite offense in the Orioles, how much pause will that kind of give you for their ability to be the pitching and defense team? Because Barrios had a rough outing his last time out as well. That'd be kind of two in a row against good offenses, which you would be loath loath to see. As you earlier, from a team perspective, how much of a measuring stick series is this? Just from those three guys in terms of the ability to shut down or at least quiet down in elite offense, how much meaning are you going to take out of this? - I really do think they have the ability to go into, to have this series against the Orioles and hold them in check. Like I think the pitching really is that good. That's never the issue for me. It's, can you score enough against the Orioles? Really good pitching as well. If the Orioles are a complete team and at this current juncture, the Blue Jays are just not a complete team. They are a pitching heavy pitching focus team with an offense that is underachieving to say the least. I wouldn't even call them underachievers because I think in some respects, this offense, this should have been expected. - They're achieving. - Yeah, they're exactly what you thought they were going to be. And I do think that if they struggle against the Orioles in this series, they get swept here. Like I don't want to say you're careening towards a rebuild or unloading everybody in the trade deadline, but say they get swept in a three game series, they'll be, it'll be May 16th and they'll be 11 and a half games back of the Orioles in the division and probably eight games back of the wild card in the middle of May. And at some point as a front office, I think you have to look at it through a clear lens and say, look, are we actually good enough to compete, to go on some crazy money ball type Oakland A's run where we can drag ourselves back into this race and where are the embers that are burning for this team where you're like, I can hang on to that. That's going to be the thing that starts the fire. I just don't know that it exists. And if they struggle in this series, you got to really start thinking hard about but where the season's going. - So I want to be clear. I am not saying that this is the ember that you should believe in, but you mentioned flatty earlier. - Yeah, I don't know that the team hasn't taken off with him. So I don't think he's getting the credit he deserves. Let me just give you his numbers from the month of May. - He's been ridiculous. - I think this is the most important part as well though. Still one homer in this stretch where he has been transcendent. So I think we need to have a realization about what he is in terms of a power guy. The power will pop up from time to time when you hit the ball the way he does but he is not a 50 homer guy. We just need to get that out of our mind. But his slash line in the month of May, 417 average, 475 OPP, 528 slug. You added all up an OPS just over a thousand. This is everything you could want. So there's been a lot of doom and gloom about this team and about the offense and rightfully so. If they can get this version of LAD, we talk about the retooling that might have to happen at the deadline. You want to talk about throwing a wrench into a team's plans. If the year they're going to ask themselves these questions, be it at the deadline, be it in the off season, is the year where Vlad puts up the big year or at least bigger and Bo struggles. Now again, I'll still believe that Bo's going to turn it around because he's done it before. But you want to talk about throwing a wrench into teams plans. If those two guys kind of flip by tenities this year, I feel like the team had been trending towards the direction. If they had to choose one that was pretty clear, that Bo had the track record you would bank on. What do you do if you see a flip, a 180 in the final year of it? I don't think you can make that the be all and end all. But how can you, you know, Vlad, if he's going to tease you with a line that looks at anything like that for the bulk of the season, how can you not have a bit of an organizational pivot? - That's such an excellent question because a week and a half ago or two weeks ago. - Yeah, like everyone was like, Vlad is done. - Yeah. - Like he doesn't hit for power anymore. He was batting 206 at the end of April. Like it was a disaster. And he was the number one lightning rod of criticism for this team and this organization. And he looked at him and said, if you're not getting that kind of production, you have no chance of competing for anything. And now he's been sensational. He deserves all the credit in the world, hand up. I didn't know that he had even this kind of a streak in him at this point. I thought it was just a shell of his former self. And now he's one of the hottest hitters in all of baseball. And your mind starts to wonder, okay, like, yeah, Bo deserves the benefit of the doubt. Okay, if Bo can have a streak like this and they can do it together, like, is this team, is that enough? Is that enough for them to start winning some games with some more regularity? And I just don't know if the rest of the lineup is good enough. But you pose an excellent point about from an organizational standpoint. Like I do wonder if there's something about Vladi that fans just, whenever he goes through a tough time, he just gets ripped to shreds. And I don't know if it's the thing with the Gatorade showers at the end of wins or the people think he smiles too much or whatever it is, but I have a hard time believing that if you're going to go through some lean years or some rebuilding years, that fans would be okay having Vladimir Guerrero Jr. be the face of the organization. Like I do think there are some Blue Jays fans out there. I don't want to say they're sick of Vladi, but I think if you gave them a choice, if Vladi and Bo were giving you the same level of production, I think people look at Bo and be like, oh, this guy's serious. He wants to win all of these things. And I don't feel like they feel the same way about Vladi. And whether that's true or not, I do think that impacts which direction the Blue Jays will eventually go in when they have to make that call. - Yeah, I don't disagree with the point you're making. I just think with baseball, it is so different from the other, and we don't have football here, so I'll just say the other two major sports in that there are so many more. Hey, maybe you feel differently, please correct me if I'm wrong. It feels to me like there are so many more casual Blue Jays fans. And I mean that uber casual, like they're aware, they have a hat, they just see Vlad on TV. There is so much, I won't say interest 'cause they're casuals, but there is such a part of people who would hand up, consider themselves a Blue Jays fan, that that is still the identity of the team to them. And I don't think you should make decisions based on what any fan thinks. You definitely shouldn't do it based on fans that aren't really paying attention, but you can't be blind to the fact that there are people who I, there are not people who don't consider themselves hockey fans or Leaf fans, unless they're going there for business that find themselves at a Leaf game. I imagine the same for Raptors fans, but there are tons of people who are at Blue Jays games in the summer 'cause it's the start of your summer day. You go there and it's basically a big pregame for whatever it is you're gonna do on a fun Saturday night. There's just an element of that that exists. And Vlad is still to those people, the face of the team and part of it's marketing, part of it is it's impossible to stop the one and run away train. That part I don't think can kind of be overstated enough. We will give them a little plug here, little programming note, J's games. I don't know what Baltimore's deal is, although I'm not gonna complain 'cause I love sports ending earlier. When I do this job, 635, first pitch tonight. So don't miss it. Jose Barrios will be on the bump for the Blue Jays, Ben Shulman and Chris LaRoule have the call on Sportsnet 5.9, the fan, find it on a Sportsnet one. Again, that is a 635 first pitch, though pregame starts up at six o'clock. Gonna talk to Frank in a couple of minutes here. But before we do that, Jeff has a party, he loves to do this. He loves to give me a preview of the pod I listened to while I drive home on Mondays, 32 thoughts. They, this will shock you. They spoke about the Leafs in the latest edition of 32 Thoughts. Let's get the latest from Merrick and Friedman. - So Craig Baroubi was in Toronto on Saturday from what I understand. He interviewed with the Maple Leafs on Saturday. Thanks to Internet sleuths in Los Angeles. We know that Todd McClellan was flying from LAX to Toronto. So we all assume he's interviewing Monday. We'll see if this goes any deeper. Who else might get a call here? One guy I wanted about was Gerard Gallant, just 'cause he seems like a tree living kind of guy. But that's just me talking. We'll just see how deep this goes. There was a time I thought that Baroubi was going to have an offer to coach the Devils. I'm not as certain about that now. It still may happen, but I'm not as certain. As I've said, the Devils, I believe, were serious about Baroubi. They were serious about Woodcroft. I am under the impression that Todd McClellan was gonna get another interview with them. But I had some people saying to me this weekend that they think that Sheldon Keefe is a big factor in this job. And that Keefe has a legit chance at this if he wants it. I do believe there have been a few teams, more than one, that have reached out to either ask the least for permission to talk to him or gauge his interest. So a lot in there, again, that's on the latest 32 thoughts. Guys recording that last night. You could check it out wherever you get your pods, of course, not until you're done listening to us. Once I've had my final say, then you can hear the rest of what American Friedman have. I don't think any of that is overly surprising. Again, we mentioned it. We, a fellow Brent, he was one who tweeted it out, had the picture of McClellan board in the flight from Los Angeles to Toronto. He's believed to do an interview there, not surprising. The Baroubi waiting part of this continues to be surprising to me. And then Sheldon Keefe, that is not remotely surprising. The teams will be kicking tires again. I know, you know, ran its course here. We all understand that, but the devil's kicking tires on Keefe, that feels like a, again, I can't decide if that is exactly the team Sheldon Keefe would want to coach or he would want the exact opposite of that. He's been down the road of a young, skilly team trying to get over the hump. Now the devils have actually won a series. So maybe it's a little different there. Also, their young players make $8 million, not 10, 11, and 12. So it's a little different in that regard. But I do wonder if Keefe would want a challenge more similar to the Leafs or something very different where he's taken, you know, everyone's tired with a penguin's job. I actually don't think, I don't think he would even take it, quite honestly, if it was offered to him, because I think he'd want separation from Dubas and to be his own man. But I do wonder if he'd want a challenge that was more like that, of working with a veteran group as opposed to a little bit of a redox of what he did here. I feel like he's probably going to lean into what he's good at. And I think what he's good at is dealing with guys with, with scale and something he has experience doing. And you want to go somewhere where you're comfortable. And I feel like that would be a comfortable spot for him. And I do think New Jersey is such an intriguing option because they have number one, really good players. But they're also coming off a hugely disappointing season. So the expectations are, I think, lower there. It would be very hard, I think, for Sheldon and Clee, keep to go in there and have a worse than 81 point season. So I think it's a great spot for him to go into it and have an outsized impact on New Jersey Devils. None of the things that caught my attention with what Elliott had to say was the name Gerard Galant. And I understand why people have the-- I don't call it obsession, but the interest in Craig Baroube and the fact that he's won a cup is important. And Gerard Galant hasn't won a cup as a Stanley Cup head coach. But I do think they bring a lot of similar qualities in terms of old school guys, motivators. So I'm surprised that we haven't heard Galant as a name that's been thrown out there as much as maybe a Baroube as well, because it feels like that would be a fit. If you're looking at Baroube, why not look at a guy like Gerard Galant as well? Yeah, his playoff head coaching record has been pretty boomer bust. He had one trip to a conference final, one trip to a Stanley Cup final, and then out in the first round. Every other year, it's been there. So I'm not going to put all that on him, but it's pretty interesting, very boomer bust. As I pulled up his hockey DB page, I love to do this with my friends. So I'll do it for all of you now. Gerard Galant is our hockey DB guy of the day, because you go click through on those pictures, you're going to get some incredible ones. Just an all-timer East Coast mustache bandied about collection in his hockey DB page. So there you go, Gerard Galant, your hockey DB guy of the day. Our final guest of the day, and our first guest of the eight o'clock hour. Frank, Sarah Vellie, going to join us next. A lot to get into, how will the coaching carousel spin? How soon will the Leafs make up their mind? And how much of that has to do with what happens with the hurricanes and rangers tonight? Talk to Frank when we continue fan morning show with Gunning and Rubenoff on SportsNet 5.9 of the fan. Covering the Blue Jays from an analytical perspective. Jay's Talk Plus with Blake Murphy. Be sure to subscribe and download Jay's Talk on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Gunning and Rubenoff, 20-ish minutes left of the two of us this week. Anyways, I don't know, you never know when Ben's going to sneak off for another day, allegedly back tomorrow. We shall see. Then he gets to sit in the power chair. I didn't see this. You were just telling me about something. Our man, Frank, Sarah Vellie had proposed. I completely missed this. So his idea is if there is a penalty in the dying minutes of, or less than two minutes in regulation, then the team gets the full crack at it. Like there is no 30 seconds left. There is two minutes left. Not just regulation, but any period. So if you take a penalty with less than two minutes to play in a period, you get the full two minute opportunity before the teams go to the room, and then you just take off whatever time you used in that period, in the next period, which is pretty interesting. And he said it also applies to the end of regulation. Yeah, I think that is interesting. And he's really just speaking my language, because I mean, the end answer to this is there's nothing that couldn't halt the momentum of a Leafs power play. Because you'd have to have momentum for it to exist at all. But I think the thing that I do like that in that you kind of allow a team to generate, there's nothing worse than when you get a power play with like a Buck 15 left, and then you get set up, and you're finally buzzing, and then the horn goes. Then you got 40 seconds left on the other side of it. It's just not the way you-- Fresh ice, too. Fresh ice, yeah, very different. So let's bring in our last guess of the day now. And this insider brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus, where you could expect excellence online. And in the showroom, visit donvalleynorthlexus.com. Frank Seravelli, hockey insider and president of hockey content to daily face off joining us now. Frank, how's it going? Thanks for jumping on, man. Hey, pretty good. How are you guys? We're just, we're doing well. We're just talking about your interesting proposal regarding penalties at the end of periods or the end of regulation. I love this idea. I can't tell you how many times I've seen, I mean, the joke I made is that everything would help the least momentum on a power play, because they don't have any to begin with. But I can't tell you how many times I've seen over the course of the years, the team finally gets set up, and it's going well. And then the horn goes, and they have 32 seconds left on a power play to start a period. And it just seems like no advantage at all. I just want to give you kudos. I like that idea, Frank. Oh, thanks. I probably could have, even in the exact moment, were really to say that you should give the option to teams to do that. That maybe you want to start the period with fresh, fresh ice and go from there. So to give the team the choice would be beneficial. And at the very least, like, let's say you do change the clock situation at all, no matter what, if you have a power play, you should be starting the next period with an offensive zone face-off. I like that as well. These are all dropping the pocket center ice for what? Why? Because that's no sense. Yeah, no, I'm with you. It doesn't, it doesn't make any sense at all. I love the idea there. I am all for this because I was proposing that in the Leafs first round series with Boston, they should have the ability that every time Boston took a penalty, the Leafs just for went their own power play, but then were able to negate a penalty of theirs later on in the game. Like, I was trying to think of all the ways I could to not have this dreadful power play summary in the Leafs as it did. There's a lot to talk about. I know you're in Edmonton, you've been taken in that series, want to talk to you about what went on there. But I want to put a little bow on the housekeeping that we're doing here. And by that, I mean, we don't know who the Leafs next head coaches. Do you know who the Leafs next head coaches? Do we think we have a timeline understanding on this? How much is the hurricanes maybe playing into this at all? Where are we out on the Leafs? Okay. Okay. Thank you for saying it. Where are we out on the Leafs head coaching on the search here, Frank? Look, if I knew I would have reported it. Break the news with you, but I don't think Brad True Living and Brandon Shanahan know yet. So yeah, I think the interview process underway. Craig Ruby was the first person to get in there and get the interview done, I believe. And they contacted him among others right in the first hours after they made the decision to fire, Sheldon Keefe. So the speculation, I think, has been warranted in terms of their interest in Craig Ruby. But obviously Todd McClellan spotted at the airport at LAX. Honestly, that interview, I believe, is today. And they're on their way. I think what's going to be interesting is, who else do they get to besides those two? And how quickly do they make their decision? If they really want Baroobay, are you surprised they haven't moved on him yet? Because all the things we heard at the tail end of last week was if they want Baroobay, they got to move. Now, it seems like Baroobay really wants this job. So I would understand him being able or willing to wait a little bit longer. But don't you imagine there does come a point where he goes, okay, some chairs are starting to fill up. And I know he's under, I believe he has one more year paid by the blues. So I don't know that he has to, but I'd imagine he'd want to get in right now. Do you think they have a, you know, maybe a hard stop is too firm on it? But how much of a timeline do they have before you think Baroobay is going to maybe get a little antsy and start looking elsewhere? Well, to my knowledge, at least right at this exact fact, I don't believe he has an offer on the table somewhere else to take a job. Okay, that's fair. That obviously would, uh, would, would negate the, the, the, the, if it is to need to move quickly, it's just that we had heard there was a lot of interest in him across the league. That's all. And there, there is or was, um, I think there was certainly a ton of interest in Ottawa. Um, they go with Travis Green. I mean, the New Jersey part is just perplexing to me, not even necessarily related to Craig Baroobay. Like you go way down the path with candidates. And I'm sure that Todd McClellan and Craig Baroobay are the sort of purported finalists. And then all of a sudden Sheldon Keefe becomes available. And it's like, Hey, this is way late in the game. We're the, we're the ninth inning and you decide to bring in Sheldon Keefe. And I think there was probably some part of them that was like, well, I guess they really aren't serious about me. That part has been surprising. Um, that New Jersey has, I guess, not pulled the trigger already. Um, and that, you know, maybe that says something about Keefe and his candidacy. I think the big thing with watching where Sheldon Keefe lands is how quickly is he willing to jump back in. You guys know better than anyone is two year extension hasn't young ticked in yet. There's not really a ton of incentive. You know, you want to work, of course. And I'm sure when you have something as public as, you know, wearing the stink of the tournament on your resume and just wafting around you, you want to try and take a shower and get that off of you as quickly as possible. But that being said, like, does that, does that really make sense? Should he take some time off to, you know, really get a chance to thoughts, gather perspective on things that he did well and didn't? Or do you just all of a sudden, you know, jump back in as quickly as possible and allow the summer and a quick restart with new players to take you in a different direction. I I don't know. I don't know that there is a proper answer, but I think the fact that obviously not only is he interested, but it certainly appears that the New Jersey Devils are interested in serious about him that certainly that's up for debate. Frank, in years past when the Leafs would have these end-of-season availabilities like they had, you know, at the press conference with Keith Pelly and Brendan Shanahan and Brad Shelvin, in years past, there would be an endorsement of the Corps and say that we believe in this team and we, you know, it was a vague press conference in many ways, but they also, I think, said some things with what they didn't say and that's that and there wasn't that level of belief in the Corps. Is it a realistic possibility here that the Leafs actually approach, you know, one or two of the members of the Corps that have no move clauses and actually try to kickstart something different by trading away? One of those guys is that a possibility here? Oh, I mean, not only is it a possibility, I think it's a strong likelihood. I mean, my guess would be the odds that the Leafs come back with a similar Corps, or at least certainly high super high paid Corps, is single digit percentages. I mean, that's that's what we're looking at. We've gotten to the point where you see this repeatedly, year after year, like, this isn't year two or three of this. This is year eight of the same players doing the same thing and they went from being super young team that's learning to weird COVID years and the north division and incredible fumbles against like you can, you know, chalk up losses to Columbus and Montreal, like, as mind blowing as they still are now, as like, oh my God, just weird COVID these things that could have happened or should have happened. And then you see it again a few more times after that. And it's like, this is, they're not even a, they're not young anymore. Like, they're, they're certainly middle age in terms of NHL players. And that's highly concerning. Like, there's just no way to get around that. They have to do something different. And the fact that of all the other sort of supposed weak spots and holes that and flaws that exist on this roster right now, the idea that the strongest part of your team, the highest paid, the superstars of this team, are the ones that have continually let you down is the part that's almost entirely inexplicable. So they have to. There's no more, there's no choice. Either get serious about winning the Stanley Cup or you just do the same thing until, you know, instead of trying to cinder block wall, you just begin smashing your own brains out on it. But Frank, what does that look like? Because these guys hold the cards, they can say, not, you know, I don't want to move. I don't want to go anywhere. I want to stay here. They have that option. But when you say, you know, single digits that the court will be back entirely, it leads me leads me to believe that you think that there is some interest, at least on maybe a Mitch Marner or John Tavares decide that they will, in fact, end up waving their no move. Like, what does that look like? Look, I think the conversations need to be blunt and honest. I think the, you know, we can play nice in the sandbox and make everyone happy. I think is, is silly. And once you rip the Band-Aid off and have those legitimate conversations, like, I've learned that no move and no trade clauses are really nice in practicality. We really rarely see them flexed. And no player really wants to play on a team where he gets a sense that he's not wanted anymore. These guys aren't stupid. They understand where this is heading. I've explained the process in which just for Mitch Marner, for instance, like, and it has to, you know, look, Tavares could be in a, in a different situation because he's got one year left and it's like, hey, we just, we got to play out the string. But Matthews is signed for the kind of, and Neelander obviously is. It comes down to one and one person only for me. And it's not, he also just happens to be the one guy that has more questions about him than anyone else. So this is as easy and crystal clear a decision as possible. On a Monday, May 13th and put your captain obvious hat on. And, and after that, you just need to get to work. Yeah, it's just wild freedom for all those things about David Camp, who we all know you're talking about with his no move. Like, it's just crazy that you would, you'd say that. We, we know. I mean, look, that's, that's exactly where we should place all the blame. Hey, man, if he could have just locked it down more, obviously, that was the, the problem. All right, I know, I know you don't always believe me, what I'm about to say here, but I know there, there are hockey teams that exist outside of the Toronto Maple Leafs. I'm going to ask you some questions about them. Connor McDavid, they nearly beheaded him at the end of regulation. Last night, George Parris, he going to be busy with Carson Susie. What do we make of that? What do we think the reaction looks like from the Oilers? It's one thing when there's a greasy play at the end of a game. It's another thing when it is on, I mean, let's be honest, the face of the league and Connor McDavid. Do you expect supplemental discipline and do you expect a war crime in the next game of that series? Well, there will be a war crime if there is no suspension. I truly believe that. Like, I think it's one of those situations where you're standing on the red line on home ice prior to game four in warmups, someone is pointing at Carson. So right now, let's go. Look, and, and not for that reason, I think the NHL has to suspend Carson Susie. I don't think you can possibly get to a point where you work yourself up and you say, well, you know, had Nikita Zadarov not come in and absolutely crushed him from behind. Maybe Carson Susie cross checks him in the chest instead of the face. Neither answer for me is good enough. First off, you shouldn't be cross checking anyone as the time as time expires to end a game. And the second we start playing this game of, well, he may be intended to do something differently. The end result is really all that matters. And whether it's Connor McDavid or, you know, Zach Hyman or, or Corey Perry, whoever's getting cross checked in the face needs punishment. That's just fact. There's, there's no gray area for me, and you can't play the intent game. The fact that it is McDavid, if you allow this to pass to end a game, it's, it's just, it's a free for all from here on in because that's the message you've sent. Frank, thanks so much for jumping on with us. And I, just for the record, yeah, I wholeheartedly agree with that. There's going to be some eyeballs on this one. Second round of the playoffs, last games and Oh, Connor McDavid at the heart of it. Yeah, something tells me people will be watching this one pretty closely. Frank always love you jumping on. And I know you got up early for us today. So thanks for that. For you, anything. Oh, thank you, Frank. There he goes. Frank Sarah Valley, hockey insider and president of hockey content at the Daily Face Off. This insider brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus, where you can expect excellence online and in the showroom, visit Don Valley, North Lexus.com. I don't know why I almost called him Frank Caliendo. When I was doing the extra there, I don't, I did just like, I am a big fan of transparency. I don't think so. I have to be honest. Like I, like, I, you know, I think I have a pretty good handle on Frank. And if he was like, either a impressionist or like a carrot top prop comic, I just, I can't picture that. He's more like, I feel like he's more like Bill Burstow just telling you how it is. And if you think it's funny, that that's it. I love getting Frank on. And yeah, he's the more we talk about it, for it, it's twofold. There has to be at least a game there for Carson Susie. Yeah. I mean, it's going to be absolute chaos. This series already on social media. I mean, you knew this was going to happen with the way the con expand bases and the way the oilers are. And you knew it was going to be a battle on social media, but it has gone absolutely nuclear right now. And especially with the Susie at the end of the, yeah, I would, I would expect just utter chaos if Susie doesn't get suspended. I wish, I wish it was the other way. Like, I wish you would have had Cody CC doing that to Elias Patterson, because as much as the oilers fans can melt down from time to time, then burn their city to the ground ever. Well, I shouldn't say ever. I, you know, I know my Canadian history, but not all of it. So I'm sure there was a fire there once or twice. But yeah, I look at that. And can you imagine if the shoe was on the other foot here of Patterson getting chopped down like that at the end of regular Besser or any other guy? So he could be full meltdown mode. Well, they're already saying like McDavid started it with the slash. Yeah. Okay. That's got to be factored into the fact that Susie crossjacked into the face just to be clear. It does not. Yeah. Yeah. That's the con expand base. So you got that going on. There's the Boston series with Florida, where again, Sam Bennett and Brad, Brad March on just having a rat off there. Sam Bennett, is he ever going to have a playoffs again in his life where he is not at the center of it? Of course, this is the man who suplex Matthew nice to end his playoffs last year. I mean, we can sit here and talk about how greasy is and how that was definitely a soccer punch on March on. And I was definitely a cross check that allowed him to score that goal on quail. But I can also sit here and say, my God, what you would kill for one of those guys in blue and white guys willing to do what it takes. Like, yeah, the the sucker punch is not a great look. And we got the extra camera angle yesterday. It doesn't make it look like the nicest is a love tap of the world. But look, he scored the goal because he's willing to go there in the first place. That's exactly what you want. Yeah. He's the center of attention and the center of controversy at many times throughout the playoffs. Sure. But like that is what if you have a team of those guys, that makes really difficult to play against. Yeah. And that's exactly what, you know, Lee fans have wanted and they got a taste of it with Bertuzzi and maybe a little bit with Domi this season, but they want more. They want more. Everyone wants a Sam Bennett. Well, and the thing you'll say about Florida is they play their game kind of no matter who it's a game. Do you want to go in there and skill it up? Great. They are going to, I will maybe not go full Carson Susie, but they'll go full Sam Bennett and make sure you're not going to be doing that. And if you want to play a greasy, nasty physical game, they're more than happy to play that style with you. And then when you're getting scoring chances, they're getting stops. Generally speaking, pretty good recipe there. And it makes Paul Marie's look very, very smart, which obviously he certainly loves about that. So we have a few more series continuing tonight. Hurricanes looking to stay alive against the Rangers catch that. It's seven stars on the road in Denver for game four. That series Dallas up to one. That is a nine 30 puck drop. And then again, Jose burrios gets the ball for the Blue Jays that they are back at it starting up a three game set in Baltimore. Six o'clock pregame because the first pitch flies at 6 35 in Baltimore. Watch it on Sportsnet one. Listen right here on Sportsnet 5 9 of the fan. Ben is back tomorrow. Ruben off always fun with you getting in. Thanks for coming up. Always a pleasure gunner. Thank you. There you go. That is that's Jesse Ruben off. I'm Brent Gunning and Ben's not here. So I'll say it to myself. Good morning. Well, post is not good goal-tending. Great, great observation.
