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And now, today's episode. ♪ Down to this game ♪ ♪ Yeah, yeah ♪ ♪ Five on the floor ♪ ♪ Drive for my dogs ♪ ♪ Way into here's the game ♪ ♪ You can check the score ♪ ♪ Hustle hard, couple scars ♪ ♪ Rain, bubble, frog ♪ ♪ Just like but the same ♪ ♪ You in trouble, y'all ♪ ♪ Check the flow plan ♪ ♪ Got 'em all day ♪ ♪ Y'all through the block ♪ ♪ Stop the one hand ♪ ♪ And pack with trust ♪ ♪ It's probably have the guts ♪ ♪ We here to bring the heat ♪ ♪ Y'all can hang it up ♪ - Welcome to "Five on the Floor", a daily insider show on the Miami Heat and the NBA, featuring Ethan Skolnick, Greg Sylvander, and Alex Toledo, plus others from the Five Reason Sports Network. - All right, welcome back to "Five" on the floor. Here's today's floor plan on Ethan Skolnick. You can follow me. Ethan Jay Skolnick and the Five Reason Sports. We've got Alex Toledo, Michael Beasley, Enthusiast. You can follow him at Tropical Blanket. Speaking of Michael Beasley, we'll be doing draft episodes about failed Miami Heat draft picks. No, we'll be doing it about all Miami Heat draft picks. Coming up in June, we're actually gonna revisit some past heat drafts, get into who they could have drafted, who they did draft, how it worked out, how that player would have projected. I think we'll have some fun with it. We'll also bring on some guests, maybe to talk about what the process was, and I'll be gathering background information between now and then. We've got some other episodes planned as we go forward too, but we are gonna talk about potential targets, and we're gonna react to them as they are in the news, okay? So this doesn't necessarily mean. Let me say this one very stark, please. Don't aggregate this. This doesn't necessarily mean that the Miami Heat are targeting this player at this particular moment. It just means that this player is out there, and we're gonna discuss fit financially, and fit from a playing style perspective. So the big one that's in the news since the weekend is Trey Young. And there are a couple of reasons that Trey Young's in the news. One is the Hawks kind of played better without him this year, with Dejante Murray in the back court, that is never really turned out to be a fit in terms of the way that they anticipated it. And again, they were a play in team, they're kind of stuck in that same spot that Chicago is. They got really good performance from Jalen Johnson before he got hurt this year. And then, again, they've been trying to pivot around Dejante Hunter and others. And so it looks like now, there may be an actual chance that they move Trey, because one, it doesn't seem to be a perfect fit, but also they just got the number one overall pick on the draft. And this is a weak draft, but if they take Alexander Sar, I think I'm pronouncing his name correctly, they could sort of rebuild around him. It does not seem to be, again, a lot of difference between kind of one in 10 in this draft, but he seems to be the consensus. We'll see if somebody else pops in there, but they were not supposed to get this pick. This is an unexpected pick, Alex. They were a play in team. I have no problem with a play in team, getting number one overall pick. At least they kind of tried this year, and like what Detroit has done for the past two years, so I have no sympathy for Detroit falling to five. But I'll ask you this, if you were the Hawks, before we get into fit for the Heat, if you were the Hawks, would you trade Trey Young now? - It's actually a really tough question. I know I'm playing into my own stereotype here, I've always thinking everything is a tough question, but I think it's like a good problem for them to have, because you now get this asset that's extremely valuable, and as opposed to where before, what were they supposed to get? What was their original slot in the lottery? It was gonna be much, much lower than that. So now all these options are open. It's a very weird draft where like you said, there's not this consensus number one pick, everybody who is into the draft, and into scouting college players will tell you, it's kind of a weak draft up top. Now it may end up being wrong a few years from now, right? But I'm sure there's still gonna be like good players in the draft, but it doesn't seem as star-studded at the top as other drafts. So it's a weird problem for the Hawks to have, because Alex Tsar, who seems to be the guy who's gonna go take it, who's gonna get taken number one based on like a lot of mock drives, and I just think he's a big man, and somebody who you might be able to pair pretty nicely with Trey Young, right? I think they can kind of go different ways here. They can just say, okay, we're just gonna add him to this core and shake up a couple of things. Maybe you trade Dejante and try to add a couple of different pieces, just be heavy in the trade market in that way, and build around Trey and Tsar. And whereas before, it felt like, okay, maybe Trey has to go. It feels like both options kind of make sense. You can kind of just, you can commit to a full-on rebuild and just say, okay, Trey and Dejante, you're out, like anybody that can help a winning team, just trade all those guys and stock up as many first round picks as you can get, that might not be a bad idea, right? And just go all in, as opposed to trying to keep like adding to this build they have, or you can be a little delusional and be like, okay, maybe Tsar is gonna help this Trey build and maybe we should keep going through with it. I personally, I think the full rebuild probably makes a little bit more sense for their situation. But like, I wouldn't be surprised at it like, okay, no, we've got our big man for Trey now. Let's just shake things up around them. - No, I get it. And again, they've drafted a con, a con will, right? A couple of years ago. And so Capella is another guy who could be on the move. They re-sign Hunter. They brought in Murray, the possibility that Murray was gonna get traded at the Trey deadline. Now, I can tell you flat out that I know that, and I've said this on playback, follow us at playback.tv/5RSN. That I know that the Spurs, and this is, I just came out the past couple of days, but I've been hearing this and I've been saying it on playback, that they have really investigated Trey. I know that they're serious about him. And what I heard was that they wanna do this rebuild about Renby quickly, because Renby's body type is not, does not lend itself too longevity necessarily. So especially because he is so advanced, you know, intellectually and in all other ways, and in terms of his attitude, and obviously what we saw in the court this year, they wanna expedite it. Like this is not a guy who's gonna be happy losing very long. It's just not in his makeup. He wants to win. And so I do think that Trey to them is a legitimate possibility that he really could end up with the Spurs. Now we talked about the Lakers now, Trey just changed agents from Clutch, which is an odd move to make if you think you're getting traded to the Lakers. Doesn't mean he necessarily won't. I think Deschate Murray's with Clutch also, actually. So now they had the same agent, but now they don't have the same agent. So we'll see if that plays into anything. Sometimes those things can have an impact on negotiations or at least interest. But I guess my thing is this, if I'm the Hawks, okay, I would be pivoting, I would be trading Trey. I think you have to trade Trey or Murray. Like you have to trade one or the other. That back court does not work. I mean, we've talked about where the hero or zier back court there's enough evidence at this point about the Trey Murray back court to know that they're better off separate than they are together. And so I understand the thinking on it, which is that Murray's a better defensive guard or should be than Trey is so that he could take the better perimeter player, but it just hasn't worked. It hasn't worked offensively. So if I were them, I would look to move them. Now I'm looking at his contract, Alex, and anybody can find this on Spotrack. Next year, 43 million, year after 45.9, and then he has an early termination option of 48.9. So basically 49 million, he becomes unrestricted in 27. So you'd have him under contract for three years. Now let's get to, before we get to the basketball fit, let's talk about the contractual fit. Greg and I just did an entire episode. I recommend people listen to it. We talked about how you can't really have a third guy making that kind of money. In fact, we kind of argue that you can't really even have a third guy making what Terry, or certainly what Tyler is making, which is 29, Terry makes 24, and now we're saying you're basically gonna bring in a guy who's making what both of them make combined or close to it. Your salary structure is really tilted. And so before we get into the encork fit, you gotta be damn sure that those three guys are the right guys, right? Because you're not gonna be able to afford much else. - For sure, and I think that's the problem that comes with having that many guys making that level of money like you guys were talking about. But what is this all about at the end of the day, right? Let me throw that in there. And it feels like it all comes down to, okay, what are the best combinations that are gonna help you win? And everybody, including us, has resorted to kind of for years now, saying they should probably go for another star, and now it's become a little bit more urgent, it feels like because we saw signs of Jimmy's decline this year, we saw the way that it ended, where half the team or half the rotation was out when you needed them the most, and it feels a little bit more urgent, right? And everybody wants Donovan Mitchell to be available, and for the heat to trade for Donovan Mitchell, and we're gonna have podcasts talking about Donovan Mitchell, I'm sure, I'm sure of it. But as of right now, we're talking about Trey Young, right? Isn't it a similar kind of problem because Donovan Mitchell would be a huge, right? Or Kevin Durant or whatever big star that a heat fan might wanna trade for, it's gonna be a big contract. So is Trey the one that you would wanna do it for? A lot of people don't like his game, maybe your first thought is no. He is really young, right? There's, 'cause I'm not like the biggest fan of Trey's game or anything, but I'm trying to give the case a little bit here. He's 25, right? He's still pretty young, has been kind of elite at the things he's good at, ever since he's gotten into league, right? When it comes to getting to the free throw line, being able to generate offense, being a fantastic passer, which by the way, like his assist percentage is 98th or 99th percentile for every single season of his career, including his rookie year. The turnover percentage is always relatively low compared to the amount of use that he gets. Like the guy obviously we know can really stretch the floor and shoot from just about anywhere. There's a lot of tantalizing things that he can bring, especially for a team that desperately needs offense. It's a guy who fits both timelines in a way because it's not like you're waiting for him to develop. He is who he is. He would help the Jimmy, you know, when now timeline would help the BAM timeline because he's still pretty young. And I just think it's an interesting one. Like if he actually becomes available, I think the heat should consider it. I'm not saying I'm all the way into this because, you know, to get into the contract stuff, like you said, he's making 43 mil. If you're trying to trade match, you're probably gonna have to, it's probably gonna end up having to be Tyler and Duncan. And then that doesn't include the inevitable draft capital that the Hawks for an office would look for. So all of that to be said, I don't think this is the type of move that the heat would actually make because I don't think they would pony up the draft capital necessary to trade for something like trade. Maybe I'm wrong there, but I think that's kind of what ends up separating, you know, whether or not they pull off a move like that. 'Cause I do think he's somebody that, even with all his flaws, right? Like they might be able to work around some of that stuff. The defense, we know how bad it is. - Well, hold on. 'Cause that's gonna be the second part of this episode. - Okay, okay. - 'Cause that's kind of where it goes. And you hadn't mentioned it yet. Specifically, and I was waiting for it. So let's talk about that on the other side of this. You wanna mention a couple of great sponsors of the five reasons sports network. Our friends over at Better Edge, we run competitions there. This is legal sports betting. 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And no matter what tasty choice you make, you'll enjoy our everyday low prices, plus extra ways to save, like digital coupons worth over $600 each week. You can also save up to $1 off per gallon at the pump with fuel points. More savings and more inspiring flavors make shopping king supers worth it every time. King supers, fresh for everyone, fuel restrictions apply. - All right, so here's the thing, all right, but we'll talk about the defense in a second. And that is probably where this is gonna hit. You mentioned you'd probably have to go up draft capital, probably Tyler, again, if they had interest in Tyler, you know, again, roughly the same age as Trez, like a year younger than Trez. And again, he would still fit with a younger timeline there. The Andre Hunter was in Tyler's draft class, and then you'd have SARS, you'd have Jalen. So you have some pieces there that you could kind of build with to kind of go forward. I guess this is the thing though, like again, if you're the Heat, and you're trading Tyler, you're replacing Tyler with Trez, I still still think they might trade Teriros here, 'cause I don't know, does a Teriros here trade young back court work? - Yeah, I don't think the both will be starting together. - Right. - That's my first thought. - Okay, so I mean, let's start there. Like, I don't know that that's ideal. And then also, even if you traded Duncan and Tyler, you still have Teri's salary there at number four, and you're on your payroll at about $24 million, which is still a significant fourth salary when you're talking about what your three salaries are. And we do have to put this in the context of the second apron for sure. So yeah, I mean, that would be one of the concerns here. I think from a playing standpoint, you hit on it. This is for people and our friend Trilly on Twitter and others who talked about this, this is about unlocking BAM in some ways. If you feel BAM can be unlocked more by putting him with a point guard who is, for all of Trez chucking, and there is a lot of chucking there from all kinds of places on the floor, you're right, he's an elite assist guy. And it's not just assist. I do believe he's also an elite passer. I know that some will say that some of the assists are kind of token assists, and it's the way that assists are sort of, you know, given out and all the rest of that. But he's a very good passer. He's a better passer than anybody they have. That's for sure. And so that would likely help BAM. Now, from an age timeline perspective, he's on BAM's timeline. I mean, he's 25. He's just as much as Mitchell is. Like he's two years younger than Mitchell. He's not on Jimmy's, but he would do the things that we've talked about, which is innings eat during the regular season, right? For Jimmy, probably better than anybody else would. I'm looking at his games just for an availability perspective though. He played only 54 this year. He played 73-76 the two prior years. So you would take that for sure. That would, I mean, the 76 would have ranked first on the heat this year, 73 would have ranked second. Shooting percentage, field percentage 43% same as last year. Pre-point percentage was up at 37. That's the second highest of his career on very high volume as usual, 8.7. Although actually not that much higher than Tyler's, I don't believe. And then effective field over percentage 52%. Obviously, he's a very good free throw shooter. The big difference you mentioned in other than the assist is offensively is that he gets to the line. Since the last five years, 9.3, 8.7, 7.3, 8.8, 7.5. I mean, those are free points, essentially. So you're talking about free throw line and the three-point line, he's giving you offensive productivity. How bad would the defense be, Alex? - Yeah, man. I mean, we know how bad his defense is. Like we've seen it. The poor Hawks fans over the past few years that I had to deal with some pretty bad defense from their point guard spot. And that's where his biggest flaw is for sure 'cause he's very small. And people mentioned that his defense actually improved a little bit this year. And it's kind of similar type of stuff that we've been talking about with Tyler. It's like, okay, the hands are a little bit more active. He's in the right spot a little bit more. I would still say Tyler is probably like miles ahead of trail as a defender. So that tells you how I feel about it. I think the heat are a very interesting situation when it comes to like a potential fit, right? Where you, in theory, right? Which like depends on a lot of things. But in theory, you have the defensive infrastructure to cover up for trace flaws, right? With an elite defensive coach, BAM at the five and other pretty good defensive personnel on the roster. We don't know how many of them will be back, right? Because Caleb and Haywood, even Delaun, like their situations are kind of up in the air for the summer. So some of that could be affected because those are kind of, that's pretty much all their like guard defense class right there. They're all up for a new contract this summer. So we don't know what's gonna happen there, right? With the heats guard defense. But I do think if you just talk about like, can you fit him into this organization and play around his lack of defense? I think you can. I just think it's, you gotta make the offense worth it. He's gotta be an innings eater when you need him to be. He's gotta be, you know, what, who he is when it comes to getting to the free throw line, which he has been his whole career, like I mentioned, but now, right, some people might point this out as well is that there seems to have been a difference, right? In the way that the NBA now is regulating some of these foul calls. So if you have any kind of skepticism that he's gonna be able to draw fouls at the same rate then that probably, that might be a deal breaker because you're gonna have to, you're gonna have to pony up some stuff to even be in this conversation in the first place. And that's one of the big reasons you'd want him is because of the offense. A big part of his offense is how, just how frequently he can get to the line, even as a small player, like he is very, very good at that. And like I think the passing is not going anywhere. That would be a fantastic pick and roll with him and Bam and you would have a bread and butter type of offense that you can, you know, have plenty of variations around with Trey, you can obviously do a lot with him if he's willing to do a little bit more off ball stuff, another stuff, you know, another thing that's kind of in theory. I think like there's a lot to like about Trey's game and the cell would be, okay, we can bring him here and trim some of the extra fat, right? Like some of the parts of the game we don't love, you know, him playing for a situation where ideally, presumably you'd be a championship contender, like, you know, wouldn't mess around as much. You put it in a serious organization like this, I can see it, like I can see the cell. You just have to be sure that the free throw volume, the, you know, him being able to stretch the floor from anywhere, the passing, that all of that stuff is gonna stay at the same level and then you'd be able to kind of turn him into the best version of himself 'cause the defense, it kind of, you know, is what it is. You can turn him into a better, the better that he'd have done that forever. But like there's only so much you can get out of somebody who is that small, you know, he doesn't even weigh 180 according to like his listed weight. - Yeah, I mean, they've had small point cards before. I mean, Tim Hardaway was one, but Tim was, I mean, Tim had a weight clause in his contract. Like that's, you know, Kyle Lowry too. We talked about, we talked about acreage with Kyle Lowry, like this is, this is a whole different, I mean, this is a, you know, this is a tiny point card. Like it really is. - And the opposite problem? - Yeah, I mean, this, so that's where it comes in. But I understand, I understand the desire because it's like, okay, they've done these kind of things with players with much less skill than Trey Young. Like you can't argue about his skill. You're right, they have to trim out some of the fat. I just wonder how he fans would process this. Like it almost would feel to me a little bit like, if you give up too much, it's like a move for the sake of making a move, kind of, I don't know. Like, I, I mean, to me, I mean, you're comparing, if you're comparing Mitchell and Young, if you're talking about similar type assets, Mitchell makes much more sense just because I do think that the physical tools are there for him to be a plus defender in the right circumstance with the right motivation. It's not, you're right, it's not a Trey. Like that's just not it. And now Donovan's defense has been criticized at times, rightly so. But again, you would hope that they would clean that up a little bit. And again, there's, I think there's more raw material to work with. I don't think this is ultimately a move that they would make. I think this is one of those moves that will be made and then he fans will be, oh my God, we missed out on another one. When I, it just doesn't feel to be like a team that leans defense, that actually was as interested or more interested in true holidays and they weren't Dame Willard. I don't, I mean, I just, I have a hard time seeing them. So let's go for the worst defender at the point of attack in the league, essentially. - I mean, if you want to think about it from a certain perspective, this might be like the most heat culture thing they could do is like, we can get good defense or good enough. - Anybody, anybody? - Anybody out of the high? - I know, it's the biggest test of that. - Ah, my God, I don't know what Spill would be thinking. - I mean, they need offense badly. And that's what we need. - No, they do. This is the ultimate deal with the devil, honestly, for offense to be dealing with his defense. I just-- - You'll be careful what you wish for? - Yeah, I don't see it. I mean, we'll talk about somebody like Brandon Ingram in a future up and I've got my other issues with that. Like there are no perfect targets. There's a reason that they're available as targets. And my issue with Brandon Ingram is that it just seems like, for that salary that you'd have to pay him going forward. Like to me, he's not that guy. Like you're paying for Durant when he's not Durant. I don't know. And also the way that he kind of got the way his playoff performance this year really soured me. I don't think it's just to fit with Zion. It just, it feels like more than that. He also did not show up really for the US team this summer. Like that was not an impressive performance at all. Like you kind of see, I'm gonna use this praise again. The Alphas versus the Knot, the Brandon Ingram feels to me like one of their third guy type options that I think we'd be complaining about him going five or 16 in the playoff game. But, you know, I understand the need to make changes. I would prefer Trey over Ingram. I'll say that. - Oh. - I do, I would. Only because like, I know what that skill set is and I do believe that he would get the best out of bam. I don't know necessarily how Ingram's gonna make others better. But yeah, I mean, that's gonna be a bleep show on the defensive end. I mean, I don't know how much zone you can play. Like I don't know. Switch, I mean, it's switching stuff with Trey where he's gotta be the guy, you know, in the dunker spot like Lowry was trying to get. - It'll be a lot of glitching. A lot of hedging, I imagine. - It's gonna be a lot of fun. - And they don't when Bam is down on the floor. Honestly, he probably would never play him on the floor without Bam. - Right? Like they would be attached at the hip. Like I don't, like, look, I'm gonna say this right out as we close here, okay? And thanks for our sponsors, Big Brother Iron Work and also Price Bicks and Better End, Juicycode 5 and Price Bicks 5, Forest and a Barrage. This idea that we don't want them to bring in a star or a thing is crazy. Trust me, I cannot go through another season in the same team. I seriously, I might walk out. - I mean, we know what like the Heat Training for a star would do for our downloads. Like think about it. - Oh no. I mean, come on people. This isn't seriously like, but I've tried to be reasonable about this and see, okay, what makes sense and what does it? But yes, please bring us a star, a star, anybody is a star, anybody. - I just can't see them trading like Tyler, Duncan, let's say the 15th pick and the draft and then probably like one of Hawke's here. I cannot see that. I can't see them doing that for Trey Young. Like I think it's like- - I don't. - I think there is like, oh yeah. Pat, distressed asset, somebody who fits well, really good player, until you start going through what they have to give up and it's like, I don't- - I mean, you can talk me into that for Mitchell. You can't talk me into all that for Trey, I don't think. And look, there will be, like I said, there will be interest in Trey. There will be interest. The contract is not great, obviously, but it's not like a bomb and blah. Again, you know what production he offers. Like that's not a question. You know what production he offers? You're not projecting that so much, you know? So that's where it's at. All right, thanks to Alex, thanks to our sponsors. We'll be doing more episodes. A Brady had a good idea, actually. We're gonna do this this week. Pick your fighter here. The best team of the Jimmy Butler era. Don't say it, but we got, I know you kind of have one option. I think you're gonna go with, I know which would have been if they'd ever been healthy, but they weren't, so. - Oh. - I think that's a disqualifier. Anyway, thanks everyone for joining. We'll be back with more episodes throughout the off season. - Thank you for listening to the Five on the Floor on the Fivers and Sports Network. 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