[MUSIC] >> Good morning Joe, 4-7-5-9, the fan base, Brent Gunning. Now before the Blue Jays factually scored enough runs to win the baseball game, I was thinking, remember when the Leafs weren't scoring on any power play ever? >> Yeah, and we're like, imagine they could just use, could bank those power play and say, you know what, we won't take the power play, but what we'll do is we'll keep this in our back pocket, we take it penalty, we just use it like as credit and we'll cancel out the short-handed opportunity. >> Yeah. >> If only in baseball, when Dalton Varsho brings back the home run, the Blue Jays could have been like, all right, you know what, you get a double, but we also get a double, okay? We could call that a double, we'll just convert it. Anyways, they didn't need that because they scored three runs, okay? And that was for one night enough to be the Baltimore Orioles, probably not a sustainable way to win baseball games, probably score more than that. >> I think a lot of good things to say about the pitching if that's going to be enough the rest of the way of this series. >> I was, before they scored their incredible three runs in the baseball game. >> Do you remember your time? >> I mean, I was going through the number of games the Blue Jays scored two or fewer runs. It is like a shocking number. I was looking at it the other way. If I don't, I forget it, it was like when I was prepping for the show yesterday, I was doing the, how many times have they scored six? And yeah, it was not a lot. >> No, it's not. They are low to score, but now Vlad and Bo are getting hot, so that's nice and good, and they'll fix everything. >> Yeah, they're largely going to go as far as their pitching will take them, and for the most part this season, the starting pitching has been good. The bullpen has been really bad by the numbers, but it's weird the way that's worked, because Jordan Armano hasn't blown a save. >> Mm-hm. >> Jimmy Garcia's one of the best relievers in baseball. Tameza feels like he's coming around. Like, it doesn't, like, who are the big blow-up guys? Like, Yanis' Cabrera has been brutal. Nate Pearson's been very hit and miss. >> Eric Swanson. >> Eric Swanson is a gas can. >> Yeah. >> And still can't figure it out, even though the velocity seems fine, and I don't know, I made it, the pitch tipping thing is happening. >> My splitter ain't splitting. >> Yeah, but yeah, ultimately, it feels like the pitching is just fine. We'll see if it can maintain itself against a very good Orioles offense. That being said, so Jordan Armano, the six-out victory yesterday coming into a tie game is the Blue Jays win it in extra innings. He was outstanding, has been outstanding. Like I said, hasn't blown a save this season. You know who thinks he's outstanding? >> You. >> Yeah. >> However, much you yell from the rooftops, the Vlad has not been good, and you're not wrong to say that and not right now. But generally speaking, you also love to yell from the rooftops. How dare you not put respect on Jordan Armano's name? >> Well, this is it. People like, well, he always makes it tense. It's like, it's the ninth inning, right? It's always gonna be tense. >> You're not wrong, but I more agree with the people on the other side of this take. >> You know who else thinks he's good and agrees with me? >> The very good baseball team that just won the division a season ago. The most more you don't give me the name of their GM, because I wasn't gonna necessarily have that off the tip of Nite Elias. >> Yeah, okay, see, that would have been like, I don't know who that is. >> Bob Nightingale of USA Today with this little nugget in his latest. The Baltimore Orioles privately realize that they are going to have to find a closer for the pennant stretch with Craig Kimbrell melting down. They have their eyes on St. Louis Cardinals closer, Ryan Helsey, Toronto Blue Jays closer, Jordan Romano, and Astros reliever, Ryan Presley, if their teams become sellers. Does that indicate anything to you? >> I mean, it indicates to me the respect they have for Jordan Romano, and you just look at the club of guys he's mentioned in there. And also, you know, maybe I am to NHL Atlantic Division Pilled in this, but it strikes me as a touch of psychological warfare that this comes out right before the start of a series against the Blue Jays. You know, I don't know, maybe I'm reading way too much into it. It's not like Romano is the only guy mentioned in that report, but we saw the way that the Orioles owned this team last year. If they want to continue to be the beasts of the ALEs, they're going to have to continue to do that. That was where my eyebrow kind of raised a little. I thought it was interesting the timing of this coming out right before the Jays start a set with the Orioles. Is there anything to that for you or my kind of reading too much in the thing? >> Yeah, I don't think this is like, hey, release the tape. So here come the Blue Jays like Bolton board material. Now, I think this is probably something that's been percolating for a while in Bob Nightingale deciding to, you know, I think timing is it's just coincidental, not intentional. But I think it does indicate one thing that and why wouldn't you with the team that was four games under 500 now, three games under 500? The people are very much like salivating at the potential of a selloff in Toronto with these pending free agents, Jimmy Garcia among them, Jordan Romano among them, Danny Jansen among them. And that people, yeah, I think see what we're all seeing that this is not a situation where everyone's like, well, they'll figure out their stuff. They'll get it together. >> No. >> People are like, it's very possible they don't get it together. And if they don't, we want to be in a position to capitalize even a team within the division. That's the other thing. So you only play 13 games within your division now. And if you did trade Jordan Romano, he's only a rental player. You could conceivably have an opportunity to bring him back in free agency. >> And unlike with most guys, the local aspect of that, I think does make it a little more plausible. >> Would you be interested in trading with the Baltimore Orioles? >> I think if you're the Blue Jays and you have made the decision, whatever point that comes this year that you have to sell, I don't think you can be weary of a player like Jordan Romano being traded to the O's. And I guess what I really mean by that is just I don't think you should trade bow or Vlad to the Baltimore Orioles. I don't think it should be a potentially foundational piece that you trade to them. But other than that, I don't think that, and I don't mean that I don't say that to diminish what Jordan Romano is, but it's a closer, it's a reliever. Just by nature, that position has less certainty kind of year over year. I think you just have to prioritize getting the best return. If you make the decision that it is time to sell off, I don't think you can worry about it being in the division or in the American League. Again, this is a very different conversation to me if we're talking bow and Vlad. But with a piece like Jordan Romano, even as important a piece as a closer can be, and I understand that, I still don't think you can say, let's get maybe a slightly lesser return, but to have them under the division. >> I'll do you one better, okay? >> You absolutely should be doing business with the team with one of the best farm systems in Major League Baseball. Especially if you can convince them that there is a tax, it's like, hey, well, you can have them, but like, come on, you got to pay off. >> Pay off. >> Because that means taxes. >> This is your divisional rival, and you're going to, listen, the Red Sox and Yankees trade on occasion, right? Alex Ferguson. >> I was going to say, like, the occasion is in this calendar year? >> Yeah. >> No, what you want to do is maximize your return. That should be the, if there is a sell-off in Toronto, which, hey, we're not having that conversation today, because they want a baseball game against a very good Orioles team. But say more, but say things continue down the path that they appear to be going down for this Blue Jays team. And the more I think about it, I don't think it's going to be a full-scale teardown. It's probably just going to be the guys that are pending for agents, and you try and recoup some assets, hopefully, some guys that are the upper level of the minor leagues that can actually impact your team in 2025. So it's all the pending for agents. The first call you should make is the Baltimore Orioles. I guess the team that has the biggest need at that position. >> Yeah. >> But not only that, again, one of the best farm systems in all of baseball. So yeah, I probably go ask the team that has all these guys making no money that are contributing to one of the best offenses of baseball. You got any more of that? >> We're, we're. >> Guess more of that. Come on. >> Give me some of that good problems. >> God, that Hadley-Rutchman's, I know you can't have him. >> Jackson Holland, I really stay. >> Yeah. >> In his first little debut. >> Oh, I'd probably want to give him up. >> I'd be paying guys to just like hang outside of whatever they call Camden Yards these days. Maybe still Camden Yards for all I know. >> It is. >> Okay, good job. >> Right. >> Middle Park in Camden Yards. >> Good job by them. Just have guys just like smoking cigarettes going like, I met that Jackson holidays. No good. Just like really plant the seed. Yeah, you're right. Now, do you feel any differently? And again, this is not the conversation we're having today. But do you feel any differently about it? If it is the big pivot of one of those two guys, Bo or Vlad, do you feel differently about it being in the division? My argument to it is that I feel very differently about those two guys. If you trade Vlad, it's because you've made up your mind as to what he is. And I think you can make peace with that in the division. If you trade Bo, I think it's cuz it's not working here and he wants out for lack of a better term. And then I think you do just kind of have to prioritize return. So I don't know where you add on those guys. >> Honestly, I'm kind of like stronger than the Orioles should be here. Cuz like that, if you're trading one of those guys, you are literally having a discussion about Jackson holiday. >> Right. >> Like that's- >> Yeah, no, no, you're not wrong. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, you're saying that the best prospect in the sport, and again, he's no good. So the shine wearing off ever so slightly. Like it wouldn't be the first guy to not have it get figured out right out of the gate. >> I think so. >> Mike Trout was sat down in his first kick of the can. >> I think he's gonna be fine. This is my take on it. >> Yeah. Yeah, no, I think you just got a, I mean, in this world where everybody makes a playoffs, you can win 89 games, you can win 84 games. >> 84. >> That only, I should have checked if another team had done it. It's like, that only happens if Gabriel Moreno should catch you though. >> Yeah. And you only play inside your division. It's not 19 times. >> Yeah. >> It's only 13. >> Yeah, no, I think the Orioles should be honestly, no matter who it is that you're moving, Orioles should be the number one team that you call if there is some sort of sellout. But again, all is good in Blue Jays land after victory. They're one and no, never lost this season against the Orioles, a team that they went three and ten against a season ago. So George Springer was one of the many sick fellas yesterday. >> Dying, yeah. >> Multiple sicknesses for him. >> Right. >> I need clarity on whether it's the same sickness. >> Also if those guys are just like, not even break glass in case of emergency, like no situation where they can be, why are they there? >> Get them out of there. >> Like if there's just literally, no, like John Schneider said, Daniel Vogelbaum. >> Yeah, hope you're feeling fast. >> Will not be pinch run for Alejandro Kirk, nobody coming through those doors. I mean, Daniel Vogelbaum took an advantage against the left handed pitcher for God's sake. So you make good contact too, but, yeah, because he's Daniel Vogelbaum. >> Yeah, he does, yeah. >> Yeah, people getting a stark reminder that Daniel Vogelbach is Daniel Vogelbach and all the, like, the glowing pieces about his incredible spring training. Maybe, yeah, look at the baseball reference page. >> Yeah, but look at his face when other dudes do good stuff. >> He looks so fun to have in the club host, but I was told that he made. >> I told that's bad. >> Yeah, he seems like a very good teammate. >> We are a team. >> Anyways, he's in the lineup and could not be pinch run for it, because George Springer, Kevin Kiermeyer, Justin Turner, and then Danny Janssen with the back thing, those guys were unavailable. Maybe 24 hours makes a difference, and those guys were available. George Springer is the guy I want to focus on here, because, yeah, when he's not in the game, we get to see the thing, and he, he didn't have a great game yesterday, but we've seen him out of that lead-off spot. David Schneider looked like a lead-off guy should probably look. The ability to work account, to get on base. Yeah, he's got pop, and I suppose you want somebody on in front of him, but nobody gets on on this team. So you're just as good a shot of, and I know he only, he comes to the plate once, guaranteed, but there's nobody on base. But like, rest of the game, just as good a shot of him coming up with a run-on base there is down the line up. Anyway, agreed. It seems clear that when like the George Springer lead-off thing is not over. What is the number one reason you think this is happening? Because like, we talked to Shida Vidi, and he ran down a laundry list. But like, what is the driving factor for George Springer to never be supplanted as the lead-off man for this Blue Jays team? Until somebody can definitively tell me otherwise, I think it's because George Springer wants to battle lead-off. Yeah, I think that's pretty much the thing we're looking at here. You have to tell me if they exist. I know there's nerd numbers for everything in baseball. I'm not seeing the ones that show me in any way, shape or form that George Springer should be that guy for this Blue Jays team. And I don't know how you can look at it as any other thing than that's his spot. He's a leader on the team. You want him as your tone setter, whatever coach speak you want to throw in there. I don't know how you can look at it as any other thing. Davis Schneider is clearly the better guy for that role. Even if you don't think it's Davis Schneider, George Springer is not the best guy for that role. So I don't know how you can look at it as any other thing than veteran respect, it's his spot, whatever way you want to phrase that. That's what the thing's happening here. Yeah, it seems pretty clear because it's not performance like we have a growing sample here. And again, not that George Springer can't play on the scene. I'm not asking for George Springer to be removed from the everyday lineup is the right fielder because one, the defense is still good, especially in a corner. Great catch over the weekend. Yeah, he wasn't very good last year, but he was league average. And on this team, that plays like, we're just looking for league average bats here. So he gets a play. But the idea that you need to hand him the most played appearances that he blue jaded this season. You mentioned nerd stats. You were the first person to bring this up earlier in the program that Major League Baseball has released. It's this one I did think was cool. It's yeah, it's released. It's swing data, which is like swing speed and swing length. It will surprise no one to know that the blue jays have the slowest bats in all of Major League Baseball. Great. They're they're slightly slower than even the white socks at 70 miles an hour on average. Here's all you need to know about the chart is in the bottom left hand quadrant is the blue jays and white socks. And then if you draw a diagonal line all the way to the upper right hand quadrant, it's the Atlanta Braves. And I think that kind of just tells you everything you need to know. So this is weird. Like we're all trying to all the nerds, all the baseball nerds are trying to figure out what this means. So the Atlanta Braves not only have the fastest bat speed, they also have the longest swing length. And I was reading some stuff that some people believe that, Hey, well, those are always going to be correlated because it actually takes a while for a swing to get up to speed. Like if you're going to go fast, you can't have a short fast one, right? Short to it long through is what they say. Yeah. But it like take it just factually takes time to get as bad up to speed. Makes sense. The Baltimore Orioles would disagree with that because the Baltimore Orioles have the third fastest swings. But the third shortest swings, which seems like a pretty good recipe. Like again, we're all just trying to understand. We're just trying to figure this out. And we just basically put dots where the good teams are and see if they're close to one another. It does. That makes sense. That's it. Right? Like it's, it's one thing to have stats without any context is another to be like, Oh, well, you know what, that matches the eye test. Oh, Braves have really fast long swings. They hit a bunch of home runs that are good off. The Orioles have short fast swings like they're good. Yeah, it does seem like swing speed kind of correlates to good hitting. Just to bring it back to where we started, which makes it only the more infuriating the flatty as the 17th fastest swing speed in all of the major. Yeah. So you mentioned it. Vlad has the fastest bat speed of any blue Jay. You know, who has the longest? I did not. I did not see this. Also Vlad. Oh, okay. So he has the longest and the fastest, which again, like we're I don't know if length of swing is going to be the be all end all with this thing, because I think there is there is a there is something about it being correlated that you can't swing fast without it being a long swing. Some other interesting details when it comes to the blue Jays. Who do you think has the slowest bat speed in the blue Jays? Kevin Bezio. Kevin Bezio is tied with Justin Turner for the slowest bat speed on the Toronto Belgium. But I'm so happy to be right. You know, is shockingly high on this list as far as bat speed is the aforementioned George Springer, because obviously the bat speed has diminished over time for him, but still daddy hacks though. But still, if we're including the small sample of Daniel Vogelbach and Addison Barger, he's got the fifth fastest swing speed. But among regulars, third fastest swing speed by any Toronto blue Jay. Yeah, Boba Shet is actually has a slower bat speed than then George Springer would surprise a lot of people just because Bo feels like his hair's on fire all the time. That would that surprises me, right? Honestly, the shortest swing also by one of the guys with the slowest swing. And this also makes sense, because if you're going to be slow, be short to it. Justin Turner. Yeah, that that you know what that is. That's a hitter right there. So we'll see like how these things evolve. And you know, the hardest part about all of this is that we only have the sample of this season. You can't even compare it to last year, because they only have the data for this year. But it'd be something I'll be keeping an eye on. It does feel like you want to be able to swing fast to make contact with a fast ball, which the blue Jays are not doing. That was good. I enjoyed that. I don't want you to think I'm going to get that excited to talk baseball numbers all the time, though. I just like, you know, it's like we're still early on in this partnership, but just want to set some ground rules that I did enjoy that. But I don't want you to think like, you know, but that's different than like advanced stats. That's just like, Hey, who swings it fast? I know I told you like more or OBS plus or WRC plus agreed to me. That is more digestible than any of those numbers. I told you the the stack has exists just so I can know exactly how good Ellie Della Cruz and O'Neill Cruz are. All right. Before we take a break, Oilers Canucks. Oh, right. Hockey tonight is the earliest trying to even up the series. And they will do it against a Canucks team that will not have Carson Susie suspended one game for cross checking Conor McDavid in the face. Now that was not before Conor McDavid to handed him in the pants and not before Nikita Zadorov cross checked him in the back. 5,000 or so, but it's only one suspension. Yeah. I mean, how did you feel about the discipline? This little shock you where my head went on and I'm like, Oh, was that two games? Was that two games less bad than what Michael Bunting did to to Sirnak a couple years ago? I don't. I mean, like apples, oranges. I know was that was that three games worse than what Morgan Riley did this year? Because if I'm doing the playoff multiplier of that being two games, I honestly wonder if they're they didn't want to suspend him. And that's a McDavid tax on it. Cause one feels it for just the act after the whistle cross check to the face after having your pants. Oh, okay. Like grow up. It's talking grow up. Yeah. I mean, he didn't intend to cross check him in the face though, either, right? No, no. He merely intended to get him in the collarbone or the or the well, I mean, so then the argument is like, well, if Conor McDavid had been or Susie had been like felled and like right before Conor McDavid went to two hand him and he two handed him in the chest. He was like, well, he didn't intend to hit him in the chest. He intended to hit him in the pants. That does matter. I think it does. I think the it's also, I think this is unfair to Susie, but it's like, well, when your teammate did it, you don't get the benefit of the doubt there is as well. So yeah, this is a weird one. I have a hard time. One feels fine. I guess we have to just reset these suspensions every playoff. And now we get to go forward on this, but one feels fine, but it also feels a little light, but two would have felt heavy. So I don't know what they were supposed to do. Yeah, because two games would have felt heavy to me anyways. Here's my big take on everyone. Gather round or get to your Ben's big take. It's fine. Oh, okay. Well, oh my God, I'm so happy we stuck around. We should have waited until David that it's fine. He didn't intend to cross check him in the face, but he did. He cross checked the best player in the sport in the face and he wasn't hurt, but I don't know. I don't matter at all to the league. Yeah, that it's a McDavid. Oh, that it's McDavid McDavid. Probably. So you think it would have been a fine if it's like, that's the problem. It's like, I want to make this about McDavid more than I do, Susie. But I feel like if it was a McDavid tax, then it goes to two, not just the one game, but one game feels like, I don't know. I have very hard time when I evaluate these decisions. I always come down to, Hey, like, what is the thing that makes the least number of people upset? Oh, and I'm like, I thought game. I thought you were going to say when you evaluate these decisions, you remember it's a guy who might have CTE making them. He is one of those. I said that. Yeah, but yeah, I said might. Yeah. Anyways, see, I mean, we are very much on Stuart Skinner watch. Oh my god. Go on into this game. And if we're on Stuart Skinner watch, you know what that means. I mean, we're on Jack Campbell watch. Oh my god, please give it to me. I mean, what would have to happen? It's a Calvin Pickett first. Yeah, both of them die, I think, and like, I think that's actually it did whatever would have happened to get Matt Murray in the net for the Leafs is what would need to happen. We didn't get that storyline. Please, if there's a God and Stanley Cup playoffs, give it to me. Oh, back to this riding in on his white horse to save the day. Hey, listen, I know the Leafs are the biggest laughing stock. You got it. Got it. Yeah, understood. And also understand that McDavid and dry saddle do perform in the postseason. But my goodness, being undone by archer's she loves in the playoffs because Stuart Skinner has an 877. Yeah, tough playoff, same percentage. There's some difficult conversations having happening in Edmonton, if that happens. Anyways, got a chance to even the series tonight on sports that when we come back, talk to Damien Cox, Toronto star contributor, and our leafs the story in next as the fan morning show continues. Ben and Sprint gunning Sportsnet 590 the fan. Dive deep into Toronto sports and the NFL. The JD Bunk is podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Fan Morning Show Sportsnet 590 the fan. Ben and Sprint gunning that was Ellie Friedman, talking about last Friday's media availability where Keith Pelley not interested in selling any jerseys. Have they stopped? Have they decided they're pulling all jerseys from retail stores? Then be a bold move. We won't sell a jersey till we win something. Yeah, feels like that be a little harmful for the bottom line. He's he's more interested in winning hockey games in the postseason than perhaps his predecessor. He would have you believe. All right, let's talk to Damien Cox, Toronto star contributor, our leafs historian, and also our Keith Pelley Whisperer. How's it going, Damien? Can I the last part now? Nope. Can't. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Whatever. Hold on. Do we know where is Keith Pelley live? Are you guys neighbors again? Like did he ever sell his house? I don't believe so, but I can't really comment. I will have a I will I have and I move my media availability from tomorrow to day after that. And even then I won't say anything certainly what they did on Friday. Well, no, I know. And it's it's old hat, right? Like we've done this before slightly different tone, I suppose, and different faces. What did you take away from Friday's festivities? Nothing being fat. Nothing. I mean, like, and it just blows me away how people shake what is basically, you know, a nothing burger, and then turn it into all this is what it meant. This is what it meant, which is always basically based on my beliefs that we're going in anyways, or or this is what it didn't mean. I mean, you know, what what did we know going in? Sheldon Keith had been fired. They're going to be looking for new coach, and they'd be looking to change the roster this summer. Those things did not change. I mean, I basically agree with Elliot, and I'd suggest early in the week that it was going to be a big vote of confidence day. I'm amazed how some went into well, clearly Brad to living stars on the rise, and Brendan Shanahan is on the decline based on what exactly? Like, seriously, based on what Keith Pelly has barely had a chance to get in there and get his feet wet. I really wonder when the next time is, we'll hear from him. He's got some other stuff from Oregon. I'm on the boil, and I don't think you're going to see him come out and be a spokesman for the hockey team. That's still Shanahan. I don't think Pelly's going to be a spokesman for the hockey team any more than he's going to be a spokesman for the basketball team, which is among the worst in the NBA, but Messiah Jerry doesn't have to worry about his job because and they'd also run a first shot pick. So I really think it was about an organization that has kind of hit the wall, is obviously frustrated and disappointed, and now they're going to hire a new head coach, change the players around a bit and see if it works better. I don't think there's much more going on than that at this point. You mentioned that Pelly doesn't want to be the voice of the Maple Leafs. I don't disagree with you, and then how could I? After all, you'll deny it. How could you? You're the Keith Pelly whisperer, so how could I disagree with you? But I think there, someone has to be the voice of the Toronto Maple Leafs, and I think that's kind of been the interesting thing as there's been the change going back to last year is Thal Dubas very much took over that mantle as the guy who spoke on behalf of the franchise. You know, Shanahan would have his end of season avail. Maybe you'd hear from him at the beginning of training camp, but that was it. I do wonder how much that job or that role is important for Shanahan's kind of job in this because I do think somebody has to be the face of the Maple Leafs, at least publicly in that regard. Maybe it can be Brad for a living, but you know, I don't think this person needs to be like a rock star who's up there giving Ted talks, but I also don't know that for a living strikes me as that kind of guy. How much do you think that the role of president, if there continues to be one beyond next year, is that job in and of itself just being the public face of the Toronto Maple Leafs? Yeah, like this is something that's really changed in the past 20, 30 years in the game because, you know, when Cliff Fletcher was running the Leafs, if I need to talk to Cliff Fletcher, I'd pick up the phone and call Cliff Fletcher, or I know I'd see him down at the game that night. I talked to him that it just wasn't a big deal. Now everything is appointment, discussion, right? You can't just on the record talk to these guys in the same way you want to. Brendan Shanahan, like Brian Burke before him, believed or said they believe that the GM and the coach are the front men for the team, that it's their job to speak on behalf of the organization, the hockey team. And if you don't do it that way, then you undermine them. Now Brian Burke couldn't stop talking anyways. Brendan Shanahan has done this. He has sort of said, "I am not the guy talking for the team every day or every two weeks." And you've seen these GMs be available, like how many times was Brad Trilliving available last year for public consumption? Maybe three? Yeah. Yeah, two or three times. So really then it becomes the coach. And that's the way it is with most NHL teams now because the coach is available every day at practice and at games. So I would suggest in Toronto, back to the guy, you need to choose very carefully because he's the guy who's going to be talking for you on the regular basis. The coach in today's NHL is the face of the franchise. I got a question for you, Damien. I'm also in my, I'm working on becoming a then Ennis Whisper. That's really complex. Like that's an old pace, complicated world. No, it's really not. Well, and the problem is there's no there's no whispering in that world only screaming. Yeah, just screaming. There's no secrets with me, honestly. You don't need to whisper. You don't need to whisper. It's all out in the open. Okay, so here's a question. It's just a town crier. That's it. You're going to impress me if you can answer this question. Oh, I can't, then. Yes. What does Brendan Shanahan do? What does he do? What's his job? He's one of the governors of the team. He used to be, he was the liaison between the board and the team, but now he's there. I think that's the interesting. How does Keith Kelly's job change from what Michael Frisdale's job used to be? I think he's more active in like, we don't know yet. I think he may be more interested in sports. So, you know, I mean, Shanahan's job is he provides, you know, support for the other guys. He hires and fires the GM. He, you know, I don't know. I think this question is a leading one. I know I'm just I think this is leading towards he doesn't do anything. I hope he has a better answer as well. I hope. I don't have the job yet. I'm sorry. I didn't mean that. I just I'm confused. Like, obviously, he's part of the decision-making. Well, he hired Brad for living, right? He fired Kyle Dubas, but that's done. He's on, we think, the last year of his deal. So, like, the idea of him firing another GM, that's out of the equation. Like, if there's a failure here, he will be the fall man, I would think, and maybe to move off of Brad for living. But that seems like a short leash for a general manager. And he'll be it'll be involved in the hiring process for the head coach and like, there's other stuff like glad handing and the business side. But I'm talking about like, hockey operation stuff. I mean, I guess what did he do before? It seemed like he rubber stamped things and like, maybe did had have serious pushback on some of the things that Kyle Dubas would bring to him. And maybe he's still doing that with Brad for living. Like, it's all got to go through Brendan Shanahan. But yeah, I think, factually, Brad for living has a little longer leash because of the contractual status. Yeah. I mean, I really don't think the Leafs are an organization that worries a heck of a lot about who's got how many years on their contracts. They're, you know, I mean, they're having little money bonfires in the backyard all the time. They've got so much of it. The, the, you know, I mean, look, specifically, precisely what he does all the time. I can't go through what his day is, but. Oh, wow. Okay. Shanahan cut the cord. Yeah. I don't like the tenant of this conversation. Here's what I do control all things. You know what I mean though? Like, it's like, at the outset, I think there was a clear, defined role for Brendan Shanahan. It was like to be the culture setter. Like, he was clean house. Yep. And it's like, I'm the guy. I'm the genesis for this new generation of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Cut the cord with the salute gate people and anybody that has any, it's sort of a connection to that group moving in a different direction. And I'm going to set the culture with Lou Lamarello and Mike Babcock. And then, hey, I'm going to be the guy that decides, all right, it's time for another transition to Kyle Dubas. But now it's like, well, you're not going to transition past Brad for living because if that's happening, you got to believe that he's, he's done so. So, and what would you say that you do hear then? So we usually do this the other way. I'll go, I'll go Leafs to J's as opposed to the other way like we normally do. It's kind of like asking what Shapiro does once the ballpark renovations are done. Shanahan has completed his big task. And I know everyone's going to roll their eyes at it because it was supposed to be winning. But the big job he had to do was it was the Babcock. It was make it safe. It was bring all the legends back into the fold and father relations with Dave Keon. And look, like, I can sit here and hope like, I can sit here and say none of that stuff matters today because it doesn't feel like it. But that was some of the groundwork to getting up to where they're at. I give him a ton of credit for that. And he deserves it. It's just that like, okay, good job. Like, job done. It is safe. You built some statues. You brought in some guys who hopefully one day get to have a statue there. But you're right. It is it is a little hard to understand. It's a very it's a very wishy, washy thing, right? It's hard to understand. Yeah. And Keith Pelley does it like he's MLSE president. So he's he's the president of all things. But obviously this is the it's maple Leafs sports is in entertainment, right? Like this is our goes sports in entertainment. Yeah, it's not even Raptors sports in entertainment. Even though the Raptors are by franchise value, more valuable than the Toronto Maple Leafs because of the nature of the game. It's about building the plan. Yeah. So but it doesn't you can't help but feel like Leafs have two presidents there. And if Keith Pelley and I assume this is the case, he's probably not taking the job unless he feels like he has a little bit more hands-on ability when it comes to the hockey operations. You don't want anybody you don't want too many micro managers either. But like again, like, this is Keith Pelley left a really good, cushy, cushy job in Europe. All got to play golf all the time. Having said that, like the golf world was also burning at the same time. Like, let's not also act like he didn't get out of the golf world at a great time for him. That is important. That's really important. But yeah, this is a guy that had done a lot of things. Well, could a road his own ticket to somewhere else? Like, but don't take that as he jumpship or whatever. Like, no, no, I just think that is important. Yeah. And I think that this job became appealing to him while one because it's men. That's about the top job you can have in sports in this country. But also it's like, okay, you're not going to be Michael Frigdale. No. Like, you're not going to be in the background. And like, Michael Frigdale could punch me in the face on the street today. And I'd be like, wow, well, there's no way he would have ever been sitting up there with Brendan Shanahan. Yeah. And maybe if he did, it was like with Shanahan and Eugery is like an MLSE friend, it would never going to be in the end of season avail for the Leafs. Like, let's have that context as well. Yeah, Michael Frigdale is not saying, we're not in the business of selling jerseys. We're in the business of winning. He's like, we're in the business of making money. He's like, yeah, winning, does that, yeah, whatever, makes more money. Sure. Whatever. Whatever allows us to get to talk to you guys. I want, I want to go count these beans. Yeah. So that's, that's different. It just, I can't help but be confused as to Brendan Shanahan's role. And, yeah, okay, Damien's right that we read too much into like the body language or like the public facing comments from these guys. But didn't it kind of feel like Brendan Shanahan was a man without a country? Well, it's just that the two guys that he's up there with are tied to something new in a slightly different direction. And he is tied to everything that led them to this point. So it's hard not to look at it that way. But I still do think, you know, I think a little bit of it is lip service and quieting things. When you hear him talk, Pelly talk about the chemistry between those two, but the idea that this is going to be the only front office in the NHL where there's just a GM and he does his job. Every front office now has a president and a GM or, you know, a GM and then a consigliary that is basically viewed as a GM as well. Look at how Montreal was set up their system. Look at how things work in Pittsburgh. I know a bad example, but this is just the way it works now. So the idea that if Shanahan doesn't exist and that job's not going to, that's hard for me to picture as well. Very, very interesting that the timing of Damien Cox's phone cutting out right as he was getting to the crux of his argument or his conversation about what exactly Brendan Shanahan does. He is back on the line. What's going on, Damien? What happened to your phone? Well, I've been talking, I've been talking for the last five minutes. You broke me down. I was in tears for a little while. And now, so really, you've just given me a chance to compose myself after putting me on the hot seat like that. Yeah, that's fine. Sorry about that, boys. That's all good. Okay, before we let you go, I want to get your thought on the next time. Let you go. Yeah, but we're going to let you go. We're almost done with you. Yeah. We would have had a longer conversation, but you decided to cut yourself off. Scream into the void for five minutes. I understand. All right. Next head coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs. It feels like Craig Barouby's the favorite. I don't know how you feel about it. Todd McClellan was in here interviewing. He has a sub 500 postseason record and hasn't been to a conference finals since 2011, which feels like that should be topic number one or, you know, that should discredit him as a as a realistic candidate in my eyes. But okay, he's he's in the mix. And then there's the Rob Brindomor thing that I mean, like we all are. That one. I do. Well, I mean, until I see a media release coming out of Raleigh where it's, you know, he's he's actually signed the extension. I continue to believe it's a realistic possibility. Who do you think is the favorite? And who would you be picking if you were in the position of Roger Living in Brin and Shannon? You know, we have been so long a custom in Toronto to the next coach, always being our rock star and waiting, right? They're going to hit some spectacular home run, whether it was Mike Babcock or Randy Carlisle or Ron Wilson or Pat Quinn or it's been a long time since like none of these guys make you jump up and down. I don't think in the way that and maybe that's a good thing. I like I think it's the last time they were had sort of could choose who they wanted to pick Doug Carpenter. You know, I mean, like other than that, they were always going after somebody who's going to be a superstar. I guess if these are my choices at this moment, I guess it's Craig Berube. And certainly, you know, a recent Stanley Cup, he's kind of a no-nonsense guy. So that sort of fits the next coach is usually a reaction to the last coach, right? So the last coach was an inexperienced and sort of a quote unquote player's coach. So the next guy is going to be really experienced and a hard laugh. It always goes that way. I'd still like to know what the deal is with Joe Benville. He would be the, I think, the sort of the more in mode with what the Leafs have tried to do, get a savior, get, you know, hit a spectacular home run. So right now, it doesn't look like that's going to happen, but I don't really see what the rush is, guys. None of they need a coach for right now. I mean, if you really want Craig Berube, it does feel like there's another pretty good landing spot in New Jersey with the Devils and that that's, you know, I don't know. Yeah, I mean, if they really, really wanted Craig Berube, they would have hired him like that. Yeah, no, it's true. Well, they're, they're not sure what they want. Seems pretty clear. Yeah, the last guy that felt like a home run was honestly Mike Babcock. And boy, you want to talk about reactions like Sheldon Keefe was a reaction to the Mike Babcock era as well. So yeah, yeah. And so, you know, I think I would wait, I would wait. Like, what's going to happen in Pittsburgh? If Mike Sullivan's available tomorrow, that interests you. You know, I would wait at least another month and see how things shake out. And there are going to be more coaches made available. Yeah, you are correct. All right. Well done, Damon. Good job. Eventually, I want the tapes released of the five minute segment you did by yourself and your home, but he told all your secrets there. That was him. That was him to Ben Aniswas. I did. You know, you guys finally broke me down. But like Richard Nixon, they will be miraculously erased. Thanks, damn. Oh, see you guys, Damien Cox, from a star contributor, at least historian and our Keith Pelly Whisperer. I thought he was just going to say like Richard Nixon, I'm not a crook is what I thought he was he was going to say there. How about this? You ready? Next leaf coach, you asked what he does here. How about this? How about next leaf coach Brendan Shanahan? You asked what he does here? How about that? You know what? Lula Morello once installed himself, his head coach. Yeah. I don't think that's happening. But here's here's how Brendan Shanahan could really make himself valuable. Okay. He's the guy that has to call up John Tavares or Mitch Marner in both of them. Well, I do say boys. Yeah. We wish it had gone better and you weren't horrible. You're not. Yeah, I know you're going to feel like the scapegoats here, but we we got to move you. And hey, that's it. Can you do this? That's different coming from Brendan Shanahan, the guy who signed both those guys and always do this. But like he was in those meetings too to those deals and it carries more weight when it's Brendan Shanahan to those guys I imagine than Brad your living. So yeah, that's that's not nothing either. That's not nothing. But it only matters if it actually results in a good trade coming afterwards. And that's tree's job. And I don't know if any executive goes directly to the player probably goes to their representatives first. And yeah, I don't think a great movie scene though. Oh God. And all for nothing. They could bring them into those sweet mahogany offices. Probably not. All right. Time now for the wake and rake presented by sports interaction, your homegrown sports book, 19 plus bet responsibly. Blue Jays trying to secure themselves a series victory in Baltimore as they have Chris Bassett on the mound against Kyle Braddish. And it is the Blue Jays as you would expect despite the victory in game one of the series as the underdog against the big bad Orioles plus 135 the Orioles minus 161 the total eight and a half. I was going to take the O's to cover minus one and a half yesterday went pretty well for the Blue Jays. I have faith in Chris Bassett. I do not have faith in the bats to scratch across a big three runs again. So I'm going to take the Orioles minus one and a half you get a plus 125. Yeah, I think we're still, I mean, Kyle Braddish off to a great start. I think we're back to hammering Blue Jays unders. Okay. They want a game that they only scored three runs in. I guess the counter to that would be that left hand exists. Yeah, the left handed bats have been problematic for Chris Bassett. And it's unlikely that you get back to back games where the Orioles only put up three hits. Two of those were home runs though. I still like the the under eight and a half at minus 110 in this game. That was the waken rake presented by Sports Interaction, your homegrown sports book, 19 plus bet responsibly. When we come back, Ben Nicholson Smith, the at the letters podcast, that morning. The fan morning show continues Ben and his Brent Gunning Sportsnet 590 the fan.
