[MUSIC PLAYING] We're back on Connect Central. It's Stan Riccho and Satyarsha. Of course, we're in the Kintec Studio. Kintec, Canada's favorite orthotics provider, powered by thousands of five-star Google reviews. Sworfeet, what are you waiting for? Just one game in the Stanley Cup playoffs tonight. The Dallas Stars trying to eliminate the Colorado Avalanche. They'll get their chance to do so on Holmice. So we'll keep an eye on that one through the course of the evening. And of course, tomorrow, the Canucks. Ann Euler's will split their 2-2 tie. I will say, Sat, it's not like a must-win game, but it's kind of a must-win game for the Canucks for more ice, at least. Yeah, I saw that must-win. What does Elliott say? Not a must-win, but a have-to-have. Yeah, I mean, obviously, you don't want to be down 3-2 in the series. You want to be up. I just like, I don't know. I think you're going to need two chances to eliminate Conor McDavid and Leon Drysittle. I don't know. So I get what you're saying, and I don't disagree with the notion that it would better to win the game than it's not. But one thing I've learned about the playoffs in every series is so many wacky things happen, and things go back and forth, so much that it's so hard to predict. Now that we're-- I'm all for predicting a playoff series before we get into them. Once you're into them, it's like chasing rabbits, man. It's like rocky chasing the chicken, as part of his training. Yeah, it's not easy, man. It's like you're chasing stuff, right? And what we're trying to do is we're trying to ground ourselves, and if this happens, this will be the result. Like, these are the things. I'm just not sure I'm there. Honestly, I'm very much like, let's just see what happens game-to-game in the postseason. Well, we know you're a more rational human being than I am. [LAUGHING] That much we've established. All right, let's get to overrated, underrated. Hit the music. Yeah, it's overrated, underrated. You give us a topic, and we decide if it is overrated, underrated, or perfectly rated. Let's bring in producer-fast Eddie Gregory. What's happening, Eddie? Nothing much over you guys. Oh, we're great. Just great. Delightful, Eddie. Good. After last night, we all should be delightful. Find a way to be delightful. Listen, the Connects are in round two of the postseason. Last night was game four, game four, and the Canucks have played four one-goal games in the second round. They have a chance to go up three, two, tomorrow. What's there not to be excited about right now? And the weather's nice. Yeah, extra delightful. Absolutely. Everything's been a one-goal game in the playoffs for the Canucks. That's great. Tight hockey, man. Speaking of delightful, there's a big elephant in the room. Big elephant in the room. Oh, yeah? Lots of overrated underrated on it. So let's get into it with Elias Pedersen. Starting with Brad, overrated underrated. On Colson and Hoglander as Pedersen wingers, let them have third and fourth line matchups and see what they can do. I think you put back Hoglander with Pedersen. I don't know if Pod Colson is ultimately the choice. Hey, I'm not against trying it, given what we're-- Again, when you have only two points between Lafferty, Mikayev, and Hoglander, one of those assists is Hoglander's, one of those goals is Lafferty's. Honestly, I'm not against it. Sure, try it. The thing with Pod Colson that gets me is I don't think he's going to provide the offense people think. And yes, he has a good shot. He was a top 10 pick. He has some talent, obviously, right? But it's one thing to have the talent, another, to be ready to showcase it. And so far at the NHL level, when he's played so far this year, he's been good along the walls. He's four-checked while great. But how often has he looked like a scoring threat? He's driven to the net sometimes. But when was the last time you remember in the 16 games he played this year that Pod Colson got his shot off and looked dangerous shooting the puck? Not much at all. So-- and I'm not trying to crap on the player. I'm really not. It's more about, are you expecting him to come up and play with Hoglander and Pedersen? All of a sudden, they're going to find his office of chemistry and he's going to finish a bunch of goals? Again, I'm all for trying it. But the push towards Pod Colson, I don't think, is rooted in reality for the expectations of what it might yield. I've always thought Pod Colson was a better option for this team right now on the bottom six as a bumper, a grinder, along the words type of player. That's where I thought Pod Colson was going to be a good fit on this roster in the post-points. Yeah. He did go down to Avastro, played three playoff games there. I had one point, a couple of shots. And it didn't have as big of an impact as they would have hoped from people I spoke to. And I'm not saying doing the appeal to authority thing. But one thing I think we've established is these guys have been very good at developing their players and scouting their players and knowing who's the best fit for them. And the message they received was whether it's because of injury, health, or form that Carlson was the better option to play. What is that going to tell you, right? And that's not-- again, I'm not trying to diminish Pod Colson, but I think you also have to be realistic about where he is in the pecking order and why he's in that range. And don't have this expectation that Pod Colson, all of a sudden, is going to come in and be the Savior. Next year is going to be a massive year for him. But watch him get put into line up tomorrow. You score like two goals. Yeah, that would be the story of the playoffs, right? All right, what's next? Speaking of next year, from Occupy NHL, trading Pedersen at the draft with the eight-year contract coming. Oh, boy. Dude, that one was coming. We're back to this, eh? It's definitely overrated. You're not trading Elias Pedersen months after giving him an eight-year contract. Yeah, OK, so it's overrated in terms of possibility of occurring. Yes. If it does happen, I can only see it being a case of superstar for superstar. Right. Man, I feel like there is no way in hell that a team would give a guy $90 plus million and then trade him months after giving him that contract. Yeah, I mean, and the thing is, if you have that level-- here's the thing that people have to keep in mind. If you have that level of belief in a player, do you give him that contract? A bad month or a bad playoff isn't going to change your mind on that. No, and it shouldn't. I mean, I understand he's playing poorly right now. 100% on that train with a lot of people. But honestly, to me, that would be a panic button. I don't know if I want to see a front office make. To me, it would say a lot about a front office that they give out this much money to this guy. And then a month later, they're like, yeah, maybe we shouldn't have done that. It happens, right? Like, even Austin Matthews in his second year had two points in seven games when they lost, right? And people talk about this guy can't play in the postseason, wasn't looking as dangerous or whatever. And since then, he's kind of gone on to being a decent playoff player, right? And maybe sometimes people want even more from him in the postseason. But it's overrated. Yes. Only way I see it is something like crazy. Like, you know, it's like Brady Kachuk or something. You know what I mean? And again, I'm not saying any of this is possible. But that's the only way I can see anything happening. And even that, again, it's a minute possibility. Siegel on that vein, Patterson's contract and his mind state. Patterson's contract. I mean, at the time, I called it underrated. And I still think he's going to live up to the eight-year deal for as much as, yes, this player is-- like, if the Canucks lose this series, but the way things are going and with the way they are trending, there is no player that will have the finger pointed at them more than Elias Patterson. And I don't think it's completely unwarranted. However unfair that may be, when you sign a contract that size, you're going to get some unfair criticism when things aren't going your way, when your team loses in the playoffs, especially if you're underperforming. And that's where Patterson's at right now. But I still think it is going to be a contract that the Canucks enjoy over time. How many lessons do you need to have on a team for people to feel OK about the situation? Because there is the Brock Bester example, there is a JT Miller example. And there's even the Connor Garland example. Looks like Smurf's can play in the playoffs. I don't know. They certainly can. It's a win for the short kings. Let's go, Connor. Well, like 50% on the autumn, because the other short kings having some troubles, he was healthy scratched, right? So it's like, one's working, and one's not, you know. I like to live in my reality, OK? But hey, listen, 50% faking, yeah. But those three players, how different is the perception of those three players today than it was last year? Wildly different. Right. Brock Bester, they didn't even get 20 goals last year. I had 40 this year. Yeah. So it's like, you know, and I'm not saying Patterson doesn't deserve criticism. We've been criticizing, right? But there is a difference between being critical of in the moment and having some doubts about him finding his game in the moment and him having success in the future and becoming a better player. And I think we'll be sitting here in a few years talking about Patterson, finding another gear in his game, having success in the playoffs. And I think people are going to be fine with it. But in the moment right now, I think people are very frustrated. And I'd say the lesson is, look at some of the other guys on this team and how they turn their game around, and how many of you that are now saying, give it a Patterson, he can't figure it out. We're seeing a lot of similar things about those players. Be honest with yourself. Yeah. All right, next. Switching things up a little bit from Justin and his fam, moving Patterson to play on Lidholm's wing. This is the Alias Patterson edition of Overrated. I told you a lot. Overrated. Big elephant in the room, man. He is the guy that everybody wants to talk about. OK. Do I think the top two lines have had as much success as Rick Talkett seems to think? I would say for as much as Lidholm, Joshua and Garland have had production in this series. They've had a tough time controlling play. And I wouldn't mind seeing Patterson and Lidholm together. I don't know who's going to have to bite the bullet and play on the wing there? Probably Patterson with the way Lidholm's right now playing through the middle of the ice. But you go to Blueger, Joshua, and Garland and get Patterson playing with Lidholm. I think that's one way you can try to generate more offense and still have a third line that showed it can carry itself when they played together earlier this season. Yeah. So I understand what the coach is saying. And I actually don't disagree because of how well Lidholm has played with those guys. And they've really built some chemistry up. And JT wasn't great last night, of course. But I kind of get it like Lidholm's playing really well. And Blueger's all right. Blueger's not at that level. No. Like I don't think that line is going to be utilized as much or as effectively or in as many leverage situations if Blueger is playing center and not Lidholm. So when we say, hey, yeah, just put Blueger and Lidholm's spot, in theory, you think about it as, OK, now you have three lines and you feel great about it. But what happens is that line will be discounted somewhat because of the lack of strength down the middle relative to the other players. Yeah. So that line doesn't get thrown into as many situations, right? And that's where are you now losing some of that effectiveness, especially with how well Lidholm's fit in there. Like Lidholm's been the most effective two-way player in the playoff so far. Yeah. So you're saying just trust the guys that have got you to this point and keep hoping Lidholm finds his way. It's a tough one. Again, comes down to Lidholm's peterson. He's got to figure it out. You're making $11.6 million. Next year, figure it out. I think this is the last one on Peterson for now, anyways. From Todd, Jonathan Lekarimaki is an option on Peterson's winning tomorrow, especially since the Canucks have home ice advantage in terms of matchups. Whoo. Well, Sat, you mentioned off the top of the show. And for those that missed it, you can go back and listen to our conversation. They'll blow on podcast, Canucks Central. This wasn't just lip service from Rick Talkett that Lekarimaki could get into overnight. No, I don't think it is. And again, I don't know where things are at now. As of Wednesday morning, I heard a decision had not yet been made, but he's a serious consideration. And so far, as some people believe, he will be giving that shot, right? Nothing's been decided. Now, as far as the afternoon and evening goes, I'm not sure we're going to find out. It's going to go get really quiet. We haven't had practice or anything to, like, go on. Yeah. I don't think it's lip service. Like, I think it's a legit consideration. And we'll see if he gets in here in game five. But I think the lack of even looks coming from that line. So we talk about McCabe getting some chances here and there. He was not getting anything yesterday, right? No. And then in terms of nothing, yes. And he's not really getting-- and a lot of times, not getting his shots through. Hoaglander has been, like, next to nothing. And the Canucks have had the fewest shots on goal through the first two series so far. And NHL history almost, I think, it is, like, one of the-- well, at least since, like, the '90s or whatever. So they need to get Pucks on net. Carlson's not really getting Pucks on net. No. Lafferty's not getting Pucks on net. McCabe's not getting Pucks on net. Hoaglander's not getting Pucks on net. Is Lakera Mackie a guy that can maybe get one or two shots on goal? I mean, we're sitting here and talking about a guy being shell great. Well, he's actually got a lethal shot. Like, even McCabe, you know, the most guaranteed bet in all of hockey is McCabe hitting the center of a goalie's crest when he's sparing down for a good opportunity. It's just like, it is automatic. So yeah, there is definitely some frustration there. I think it spoke volumes that, like, as soon as he was cut from the Swedish World Championship team, and was like, yeah, we're breaking them in, and we wanted to get them in to playoff games without this. It's like, you know, they played tonight, right? So, like, there's a lot of trust there from the front office, what they think of this player. It feels like a big spot. It says a lot about the other options they have available to them if Lakera Mackie goes in. I won't say that it's overrated because I think you're at the point, yeah, you're two wins away from the conference final, you're also two losses away from being out. So, you are throwing bleep at the wall and seeing what sticks. And having your most talented, young forward as an option shouldn't be overlooked. So it is underrated for me. Next, this one from Nolan, putting Brock Besser on the point on the power play, shooting. Well, I guess it worked in game four, right? They got into that weird setup where Quinn uses on the left half wall and Brock was set up at the top of the point. Lin Holman ends up tipping the shot through, and that's how they scored that power play marker. Like, I don't think it's something that they should do permanently. Like, what's wrong with the power play? Last night, there was a lot wrong with it. A lot of it stemmed from, again, their entries. So I think, sorry, Nolan, your idea of putting Brock at the point of the power play is a little bit overrated, but they've got to figure something out with the power play. And one of the things that was very apparent to me last night is the Oilers have zero worry about Elias Pedersen as a shooting threat on the Canucks power play. Like, even when they were getting set up, you could see the Canucks were looking for to get Miller in the downhill spot, maybe taking a shot. The Oilers were 100% on it, and they were 100% not letting the Canucks get to that look that they so often try to get to. But also, my biggest thing on the power play was passive. Yeah, honestly, I don't give a you know what you try to do. If you're not going in for a puck hard, if you're taking egg an extra beat, and you're not making quick decisions, and you're standing still, you're not gonna do anything. Well, that's the thing. And it doesn't matter, I don't care what you try. If that effort isn't gonna be as strong as a PKs effort, it doesn't matter. And that's what was the most frustrating thing about the power play, especially if they only had three chances in the first period last night. The first one, they don't even get set up, it was finally the second unit that gets somewhat of a look, it's Connor Garland. The double minor, for the first three minutes and 10 seconds, they did it nothing, and finally again, the second unit with 50 seconds left, it's Connor Garland again, getting a couple shots on, that's all they did, nothing else. - If Connor Garland's be getting your best chances on a power play, that's a you problem. I'll do respect to Connor Garland, but you need somebody else getting those shots. I think that's one of the areas that Rick Tockett had to be most frustrated with, because look, yeah, entries, yeah, getting set up. Even when there were loose pucks to be won in the offensive zone, the Canucks were not even close to winning those battles, so that's a big part of it. You gotta get those retriples on the power play. Next, this one from Crux, the officiating for both sides in the series. - I actually thought last night was probably the best job done by the officials, and they mostly stayed out of the way. - Yeah, I mean, even the Carlson one, if you, I saw some people mention all that soft to call, I think you got away with the interference initially, and then the second time with the hand around is what cost them, it's like, I think they were trying to let that go, but then it just, he went too far for it. There were a couple of missed calls, like on the first shift of the game, it was a obvious hook on McDavid on Quinn Hughes, and they got a scoring chance out of it. - Almost resulted in a goal. - That would have been, people would have been outraged if that would have gone in, but nonetheless, the Canucks had their three power play opportunities. I thought they were fine, I thought the officials were fine, and I think, I know that people were mad about the cross track, and even talking was mad about the cross check to Tyler Myers, with how that employee unfolded, and how Myers kind of walked into it and dipped down. I thought it was fair to get a high stick. I thought the officials actually called it right, 'cause I don't think it was enough there with intent or the cross check that they would have on review upheld a five minute major. So them giving on a cross check, the two minute, the double minor, actually played in the Canucks favor, 'cause if they would have called the cross check would have been two minutes. - Talking wanted not just the cross check, but he wanted a five minute major, and he wanted Kane out of the game. - Yeah. - So there was a lot of reason, like why he was fighting for that, or complaining about that, but you're right. I think they, I didn't have an issue with the way they called it in the moment. - Yeah, the Canucks didn't, the game wasn't decided by the officials last night. - No, and so I think because of how hyper aware we are of officiating for last night's game, it was underrated. Overall, it's always overrated, NHL officiating, the department of player safety, the situation room in Toronto, like everything they do is questioned, it's a very difficult job that they have, but a lot of times, the decisions that they make, or don't make, don't seem to make a lot of sense to me. So forever and always, overrated. Next, this one from Mike overrated, underrated at the Ian Cole discussion. - What's the discussion? There's not much of a discussion. The only thing I get is Ian Cole stinks. Ken him off the ice. - He looks scared, how's that? - There's not much for a debate anymore with the way that Ian Cole's series has gone. - Well, it's like the mistakes of compounded again, like I thought in Game 3, like he was actually pretty good, or it's a game two, was it? Or a game three, like he was pretty good and the puck bounces off him and goes in, right? - And yeah, well, I mean, there was the overtime goal. - The overtime one in Game 2, that one for sure. So Game 3 is the late goal in Game 3 that goes in off him. - And it's not, so I thought he was fine in Game 3, right? But after that happened, I thought it was like, 'cause he did not look good in Game 4, like he looked like he's like, man, I can't touch the puck, if I touch the puck, it's gonna blow up in my face. - It seems like everything is going against, so right now, and it's starting to get to him. - Exactly, and I think that's exactly it. 'Cause when that puck went off him, him, he couldn't just shake it off, I don't think. 'Cause I did everything right, and this still happened, and I don't care how much of veteran you are, I think at that point you kind of feel like, am I cursed for these playoffs? You know what I mean? And he looks like a guy who's scared to handle the puck right now. - I think maybe he took a little too much flack for the dry side goal yesterday, how the Canucks manage that PK, 'cause he pulls into the middle, and people are like, oh, he's gotta stay with dry side, I think that was as much on Joshua as it was, anybody else. But also, McDavid and dry side, they're gonna do that to your power plate, to your penalty kill. They're gonna pull guys into spots that they shouldn't be in, because they are incredibly dangerous, and you're worried about what they might be able to do to you. I think it's fair to say that the conversation is overrated. Generally, I've been pretty happy with Ian Cole, and what he's given this team. But if you're Rick Talkett, as he said today, it's the playoffs everything should be on the table. The issue I have is, who are you going to if you take Ian Cole out of the lineup? And if the answer is Noah Juleson, with due respect to Noah Juleson and what he provided for the team this year, I think I'm sticking with Ian Cole. - Yeah, and here, I mean, to show you how frustrated people were, I had people actually texting in last night during the game, be like, that's why you gotta play Friedman, not Juleson. It's like, whoa, what? It's like, and that just goes back to what I've been saying for you. - Yeah, you've lost the plot, mate. - Well, it goes back to like, just because this didn't work, people think the different thing would have worked, and different doesn't mean better, and it's like, we gotta also ground ourselves in reality here a little bit. I don't know if there's a better option, and I'm not sure Juleson is. Now, given, if you feel like Cole is so into his head, that he can't make the simple play, would you rather roll the dice on giving Juleson one more game, feeling like he'll settle down a little bit, and we'll make the same mistake again? But he's made that mistake a lot, the one where he steps up, and there's a two-on-one going the other way, but I think there's an outside chance that if they feel like Cole is that in his own head, that they don't trust him enough. - Well, what's part of the issue, too, is Cole has long been a calming leadership presence for the team, and so for him to lose his composure a little bit, probably not great. - Well, honestly, I thought I'll throw one in here real quick, but I thought Carson Soussey now playing in last night was an underrated absence of the Canucks. And so the butterfly affected everything, who knows what would have happened, right? But if you look at it and say, the play we're talking about, where Cole doesn't get the puck out, who's gonna be out there in that situation? It's gonna be Soussey, not Cole, he's playing with Myers, he's probably not making that mistake, right? And then you look at it and you say, okay, well, no Carson Soussey, that means Juleson had to play. That play where he steps up, probably doesn't happen if Carson Soussey's playing. You also go to the last minute of the game, does his stick, maybe not prevent that pass from going across he's playing to protect the two, two game late, for instance, right? Would his presence be better than what the Canucks had out there? Would, instead of Heronic and Zadorov, do we see Soussey playing instead? And Heronic doesn't get bodied, right? You know what I mean? So it's like, I thought underrated not having Soussey last night, and it shows you that guys making some mistakes goes a long way, but if Soussey's back, is it easier to play Juleson instead of Cole? 'Cause you're gonna be relying on Cole? - Yeah. - On Juleson, on Soussey's and Cole? - Like I'd still take Cole over Juleson. - I think they would still do the same thing, but you're right, I think for everybody clamoring for Juleson and like Freeman even, I think last night was a bit of a reality check for like, here are your options. - Poor Ian Cole, he's like, he's had Jonathan Woodgate's debut for Real Madrid, like four times over already. - Yeah. - I'm serious. - And for any soccer folk that understand the reference, Jonathan Woodgate's debut with Real Madrid is like one of the worst games ever played. (laughs) Guy gets bought for like a bazillion dollars, and it's like first game, own goal, red card, like everything goes wrong, it was awful. And he wasn't even a starter, he was a substitute. (laughs) All right, do we have another one? - Yeah, a few more. - All right. This one from Canucks Toolie. Connect fans jumping off the wagon after just one loss. (upbeat music) So I am not here to scold Canucks fans, but I think every fan base is kind of the same. When it comes to playoff time, people are on and off the bandwagon very quickly. The hype in the city is grand after every win, and the depression in the city is pretty obvious after every loss. Like it is unreal to me how quickly people go from, man, the Canucks have a chance in this series too. Oh my God, the Oilers are about to win this thing. Like it's still tied to two. Like if you would have started the series and said, I'm not gonna tell you how the series ends, but it's gonna be two two after game four. How many people are taking it? - I mean, happily. I mean, you're in a position where you win tomorrow, you're in control of the series again. Like you have a chance to win game five on home ice and be one win away from going to the conference final and having a chance to close it out if you had to on home ice in game seven. Like it's a good position. I woke up today and obviously you're like frustrated about what happened and if you're a Canucks fan, you're frustrated, but like I woke up today thinking about the game, I'm like thinking about tomorrow, I'm like, I'm excited. Like I'm hyped, I'm like, I can't wait for the game tomorrow. The thing I hope is the players on the team didn't take that loss too hard. - Yeah. - That okay, you took it on the chin, maybe you felt sorry for yourself last night and it was really low, but this morning, how do you feel? - How do you recalibrate? - Yeah, and like, are you excited now for the opportunity? 'Cause honestly, as much as the Canucks, yes. They did a lot of bad things. Like I think Edmonton can be hacked. If the Canucks play better, they can easily win game five. - For as much as Edmonton dominated most of that game, Canucks were within a minute of sending it to overtime. That should be taken as positive. But jumping on and off the bandwagon after one loss, it is overrated. Try to stay even keel as we're talking, would say. Next. - This one would be Haronic's shot from the point. - That's definitely overrated. I don't even know. - In the playoffs? - Does it even exist? - No. - Is this a thing that happens? - You know, for all the talk about Pedersen not being right, you know, having some sort of injury, like I know there's something going on with Philliparonic, but is it holding him back this much? - It looks like a shadow of the player that we saw in the season. - Yeah, I mean, you made the point earlier, should they play Quinn Hughes more? Well, can they with how Haronic's looking? - Well, they gotta play Quinn Hughes more, but not Ronik. - Right. - And I mean, I think he's been fine. Like defensively and stuff. And then last night he, you know, defensively, he struggled like on that goal, he gets bodied. - But he's gotta be a bit of an offensive generator. Like why don't the Canucks get enough shots on goal? Well, one of the guys that helps them push play has done absolutely nothing offensively in the postseason. So that's a bit of a problem. We're gonna hit the break and we'll do some overrated, underrated overflow when we return. Stan Ritos, Satyar Shah, you're listening to Canucks Central.
