[MUSIC] Canucks Central Wednesday. It's Dan Reicho Satyar Shah here in the Kintec Studio. Kintec Canada's favorite orthotics provider powered by thousands of five stars who will review sore feet. What are you waiting for? I see what I did there. I was playing pause, pause radio hosting. >> Pause hosting? >> Yeah, pause hosting. >> You're a pause host. >> Like pause hockey. >> As Rick Talk had mentioned last night. >> Yeah, I remember we spoke to Brad about that last night. I mean, have you ever heard pause hockey? I've never heard that before, but I would hate to be called like you pause. Because it's like you're terrified and you're stuck, right? Now I'm making a play. >> You're frozen in time. >> Yeah, so I would hate to be called a pause player. >> So, all right, we'll quit on the pause radio, pause hosting, and get to Canucks Central. Of course, Canucks Central is for enzyme Pacific Vancouver's premier Chrysler, Dodge Ram and Jeep Superstore on 2nd Avenue between Canby and Maine. Or at enzymepacificcrisler.ca. Let's get right into it. It's the open on Canucks Central. [MUSIC] >> Welcome to the open. >> Come on, that's your home. Are you too good for your home? Answer me. >> Yes, the open where we bring the latest on the Vancouver Canucks and our take on it. It was travel day, off day for Vancouver. But they did speak to media. Rick Tockett and Elias Pedersen did at least, and boy, I want to get into a lot of it. But a couple of things from Rick Tockett because, okay, we've digested game for tough one, especially with the way that it ended. You had a chance to send it to overtime, had a soft shift, and the Oilers made you pay. You don't get it to overtime, and now you're back in Vancouver. Evens at two apiece. But what are the adjustments you are now making? Oilers made a few adjustments yesterday. The goalie changed, switched up their deep hairs a little bit. Obviously moved McDavid and Drycidal away from each other, played on separate lines, and it worked really well for them. Now what's the next adjustment the Canucks can make? >> So I think what we have to look at first of all is who is going to play or who could come out of the lineup, and that could inform us about, okay, what type of posture do they take on the ice against Edmonton in game five? >> So as Rick Tockett said, everything's on the table in the playoffs. >> Yes. >> And some interesting names brought up at the news conference, including Jonathan Lecker-Romecki. Of course, you know, Pod Colson was brought up to our steep banes. Hoaglander could get back in the lineup. Like the Canucks have options. And this very much has to do with the five to six passengers that Rick Tockett mentioned last night. But it might be best to identify like, okay, who's Rick Tockett really circling as a passenger? And which one of those passengers could actually come out of the lineup? Because for as much as I think Alias Pedersen and Philopronic might be on that list, they're not coming out of the lineup. >> No, no, they're not coming out. And in Tockett today also did walk back that statement ever so slightly in terms of the numbers, he said, maybe not five or six guys, maybe a couple less. Because when you go through it and you're like looking at the players, you're like, well, yeah, you might be able to name six on that given night. But given how they play throughout the playoffs, it sounded quite a bit six. I'm not sure it's six, maybe four is the number. But we all know Pedersen clearly needs to be better, right? Mckayev, Lafferty, 100%. Now Carlson's not a guy that fits into that, but I thought he was not nearly as effective last night as he was in his first game. >> It's one of those things we talk about with the Anacants and anybody can play one good game, but what do you do after? >> Yeah, and it's kind of like, okay, not quite there, right? I thought Oman was trusted late. I mean, he did some good things and everything. So I'm not sure he fits into that. But I'd say those are the four guys you look at it. I mean, I'm not saying that he's called Carlson as one of the passengers. But let's look at the forwards. Cuz I don't think Cole's coming out and given how Juleson played as well, I'm not sure that's an upgrade either. Now you kind of see why they go with Cole even though yet again, Ian Cole, can't seem to make any right decisions with the puck. It seems to always cost him. >> But I'd say- >> Looks well, too, yeah. >> But I'd say the focus would be on the forwards. Maybe Cole for Juleson could happen, right? Like maybe Cole comes out Juleson stays in, maybe. But let's focus on the forwards. I think Lafferty, Carlson, and Mckayev. >> So the other thing about this, could we see Tockett make three changes to the line? Like he even said today, he doesn't want to change the top two lines. >> Yes. >> Like the Miller line's gonna stay the same. The Lindholm line is gonna stay the same. You're gonna make three changes to your bottom six. You're gonna change up half of your bottom six. I mean, I could see maybe two of those players coming out. I don't know if all three come out of the line. >> So I think Hoaglander should come in. >> Yes. >> Like 100%, he should come in. >> No question about it. >> I think there's a good chance PDG comes in. >> Right. >> So from what I've heard from what he had to deal with, and we'll see if they get it, give her any more details on what happened. Isn't anything bad or horrible? I think he's gonna be, he's gonna be ready. >> He's gonna be okay. >> Do they go with him? >> Yeah. >> He's solid on the fourth line, so on the PK. >> Right, reliable player too. And they've had some moments where they've had trouble winning along the walls. They like him along the walls. So I can see Hoaglander him come in and that leaves us for the third one. And as of this morning, and the coach said, asked about Lakerimaki and said, hey, he's a guy that we're considering, right? Like he's under consideration. I heard this morning that it's like really being considered. >> And that final decision hadn't been made yet. I get maybe- >> It's not lip service. >> No, I heard this morning it was not lip service cuz there was some buzz out there. Like I got a couple things last night, I even saw people floated on social media about Lakerimaki perhaps playing in game number five. So I looked into it a little bit and I'm like, okay, there's actually something there. And not to say, what I heard this morning was a decision has not yet been made. >> Right. >> On what the roster is going to be for game five, but it's a legitimate consideration. Even had people thinking that it was going to happen. So it's there, I think it's a real consideration. We'll see if that ultimately happens. And generally, I've pushed back on the notion of Lakerimaki playing. Or I've pushed back on the notion of you expecting him to come in and be this difference maker for you in the playoffs. And I still maintain that as of today. Because he's a guy that still has to learn how to play North American hockey, played a few games in AHL, didn't look at a place but also didn't look like he was excelling. He's got to learn away from the puck how to play. It's completely different on the North American ice compared to what happens in Europe, playoffs are different. So you have to be really careful with what spots you put him and what you were expecting out of him. But given the way McKay and Malafferty played last night. Like when I saw, and I've defended McKay f, right? When people say take it out of the line- >> I've definitely defended McKay f. >> In excusable stuff last night. >> In excusable stuff on the four check last night. I mean, and listen, Pedersen of course has to be better. But I'll give an example of a play which honestly, to me, was embarrassing. So Pedersen actually wins the puck back in the neutral zone. Throws it into the offensive zone. There's a two on one puck chase for the Canucks. Lakerty and McKay f. Neither guy gets the puck. Gets so easily pushed aside, they take the puck and they go out. I'm just like, you can't go into the four check like that. How often do they pull up on the walls when they have a chance to get deep? And then defensively, yeah, Jules and messed up. But Lafferty and Pedersen stop skating at times. And there are things that they did that which led to chances going the other way, right? >> Well, Pedersen gave Ekholm a little bit of a fly by and I don't know what the heck McKay f is doing on that play. >> So, I mean, we talk about defensive impact for a guy like McKay f. He wasn't making the impact defensively. So if I'm not saying McKay f do the defensive stuff, he's not getting it on the four check and he's not scoring, then is it unreasonable to try something different, even if it is a wild card led like Keramacke, like I'm okay with trying it on home ice and you can shelter the minutes, you have last change, you can put him into some spots maybe and just to see what he does. And if anything is a bit of a wake up call to the rest of the guys on the team that here's this rookie that we're going to give a chance to, you're looking for more offense, some more shooting, for instance, and I don't know if he's going to be a solution. And again, like I have my doubts, but given what I've seen from Blackfrody and McKay f specifically, I don't think it's unreasonable to say those guys should come out for a kid to give him a shot. >> I think it's a big call if you are Rick Tockett to put that to put a kid in that spot. Again, one game, adrenaline running, you're hyped playing in your first NHL game and it's a playoff game. Sure. >> It could be a tough spot, but here's the thing. So Lafferty, McKay f and Hoaglander have combined for two points. One goal one is yes. >> Yeah. >> There's zeros across the board. >> Lafferty and McKay have have given you nothing for like since December. >> Yeah. And the last 40 games where they have combined like two, three goals between them. >> A hundred percent. And I mean, this one here says that Podsie deserves a shot. Okay, sure. But is put goals are going to score? >> Baines. >> Probably not going to score. So the thing is all those guys have zero goals. At least with like here, Mackie, the one thing you're trying is can you get that shot off a couple of times? >> Yeah. >> Is this a real shooting threat? >> Yeah. >> And you're playing Pickard, for instance, like what's more valuable? You having Lafferty out there skating around for seven minutes, not doing anything or have a guy that may play five or six minutes or might get two or three shots off, for instance, right? >> Yeah. The one live viewing we've had of like a Romacki, well, I've had of like a Romacki at Canucks dev camp last summer. Okay. This kid's talent can play. Like the shot can play. There's some elements here and obviously it showed up in the in the SHL this year. But it is a big spot. I would say, you know, like, okay, you put Pedersen with with Holglonder and Lecaromacki and give them a lot of, you know, sheltered minutes, I guess, offensive minutes. Maybe that gets something going and you trust the fourth line with whatever makeup it has, PDG and Blooger and somebody else to play regular type fourth line minutes. Maybe that is something that can work. >> Yeah. And yeah, for sure. I mean, to me, that could work. >> It could work more than whatever else has been working with the better. >> For sure. I say, hey, give it a chance. And even put Coles in, people say put him in, sure, put him in, but right now the Canucks need offense. >> Yes. >> And that's where, you know. >> They defended the Oilers. Fine. >> Yeah. >> Like you're going to give chances to the Oilers. The guys in freaking Oilers. >> Guys, I can move the puck a little bit. Right. Now you need four checkers of stuff too. And if you look at it, like I'm not a games put in put Coles in in no matter what, like I'm. >> Yeah, go and win some pucks and I'm not a game set, but in terms of also having somebody that can score. Like in theory, Mikayev and Lafferty can't get in on the fortune, they're just not doing it. >> Yeah. >> You know, and again, I've defended Mikayev all year. Like Jeff and East Hills, like I can't believe sat as finally sharing our opinion on Mikayev. But Mikayev, I maintained what's good on the fortune. He was good defensively. He tracked back. He did all the details of his game were fantastic. So I was fine with him not scoring because he's still a plus contributor. >> That wasn't the case last night. >> That's not the case last night. And I can't defend a guy if he's not doing those things. >> I will say there is a part of me that I definitely go both ways on it where when it comes to, I expect Patterson to at least still give me a decent level or be able to drive a line, especially in the matchups he's gotten for the most part in this series, no matter whom his line mates are. And also have come around to the idea like Mikayev and whatever else has been playing with Elias Patterson is just not good enough. I want to play this from today with Elias Patterson because he was asked about his play recently and his line mates. And it's a good exchange with Farhan Lalzi about where his game is at and if his line mates have anything to do with his poor production as of right now, here it is. >> And you've probably seen or heard what Rick said after the game that you need more than 12 guys to win and that there's five or six passengers as a player when you hear that from your coach. What do you think? How does it make you feel? >> No, I think he sends a message to the group that we all need to be better. And obviously myself, I know like, I mean, can be better. I'm trying out there, maybe not going the best way right now, but I'm trying to win. >> I know that you and the club, everyone's maintained, there's not an injury, so from your perspective, why has it been so difficult these last three months to generate the way you maybe did previously? >> Yeah, good question. >> Any thoughts, any answers? >> No. >> There's also been some thought that, and even Rick said it earlier, that maybe you're not getting the support you need and there's a thought out there that maybe if you're playing with players that score more or things like that, that might help, do you see it that way at all? >> Yeah, maybe it could help, but also at the end of the day, I can only focus on what I can do, and obviously I want to be better, I want to be the difference maker, and I think I've gone obviously the way I wanted to be, but at the end of the day, I can't dwell on it too much, we have a game tomorrow, I'm going to try it in my best, and yeah, that's where my head is. >> So there is Elias Petterson speaking today, and I will say, not that I am a body language expert, but it definitely did seem like Elias Petterson wanted to be anywhere on planet earth other than the place that he was speaking to the media and asking to answer questions about his poor play of late, but I digress from that. What I found interesting there is he's asked about his own personal play, gives one word answers, and then he's asked about his line mates, he's like, maybe, but I know I have to be better, like to me there's something there, and I get it, like you're not playing with the other top players on the team, you're playing with guys, McKayev, who scored one goal since December, Lafferty who scored, what, two goals since December? It's not great, but you are still Elias Petterson, and you're making $11.6 million, if you're out there on the ice against Ryan McLeod, I do expect you to have a certain level of success. >> Well, he's not technically making $11.6 million right now. >> Okay, you're about to make $11.6 million. Facts only. Thank you for fact-checking me on that, you're about to make $11.6 million, still a heck of a lot more at 7 and change, whatever you're making, compared to Ryan McLeod right now. But like, there's still, you know, stop pointing the finger at everybody else and figure out what you've got to do a little bit better. And I know there was decent elements of his game, and he made a big part, he was a big part of the tying goal at the end of last night's game to bottom line, even on the power play, when they've put the lotto line together, it hasn't worked, whatever it is, Elias Petterson, it's not working right now. And this whole demeanor that he has about him, the body language, it's all things that I think add up to sort of the distaste, the market is starting to grow around this player. >> So I do think he never really sounds overly enthusiastic anyways, though. >> No. >> You know, so I would always be kind of like, we've seen him even during good runs this year, where he kind of talks and he's kind of like, yeah, whatever, yeah, okay. >> So like he doesn't sound very enthusiastic, remember he was asked about like, hey, what do you think about your future of Vancouver before he signed, he's like, well, I don't really want to talk about that. He was curried about it, didn't really say much else, it's like, wow, that sounds like a guy who doesn't want to be here. And then he signs it. >> I'll tell you when he was pretty chipper. >> When he signed the extension. >> When he signed the extension. >> But he seemed pretty happy that day was cracking jokes and everybody's like, yeah, 90 million in the bank. >> Yeah, he was trying to crack jokes, but even that was awkward, nobody laughed at his jokes, remember? >> That's true. >> It's fair. >> I will say, he's always awkward in social settings, I think that's just something that he is, right? So I'd be careful in reading anything to it. And I would say in fairness to how the question was asked, it was asked about like, they haven't found the right mix of line mates, it wasn't just about, hey, you have bad line mates, he's like, yeah, maybe, but it's more about like, hey, you know, you've been some changes, they're not really, it's not a lot of production, would it be better if you had, it's like, well, obviously, yeah, maybe, but I have to be better. I don't know if he was passing the buck off really. He just wasn't really indulging the question. So here's what I wonder. Like I see, and I see it in my mentions, I feel it to a certain extent about Elias Patterson as well, seeing, you know, a player that I expect to be great, that I know can be great, and he's far less than that right now. If I feel it, if the people watching Canucks fans are feeling it, do his teammates feel the same way, like does that start to reverberate around the squad? Bottom line is, yeah, you didn't get the C, went to Quinn Hughes. We kind of know why, this is part of the reason why they chose Quinn Hughes as their cat. But did he want to see? That's part of it too. But you know what, whether you want to be a leader or not, if you're one of the top guys on the team, also the top paid guy, soon to be top paid guy on the team, soon to be top paid guy on the team, you're expected to be a leader on the ice. And these kinds of demeanor things and being, I don't know, the feeling is pissy to me about the situation, find a way to overcome it rather than let it take over you. That's what I would say. And it feels like it's taking, maybe the thought is, it's not that he's letting it creep into his game, but whatever is in his mind, he is part of the problem when it comes to Pause Hockey, he's playing with hesitation, he's not playing with conviction, he's not playing with the same type of confidence we expect, or we're used to seeing out of Alias Patterson. So whatever it is, for me, from where I sit, it definitely feels like all of this is playing into how Alias Patterson is playing on the ice. Yeah, I mean, I think there's a lot of things that go into it, and in terms of how his teammates feel like none of us will know, but if it's like, how do you act in the room? That's the bigger thing. I think of him care what you say in the media, whatever, and I think even in person, when you watch Patterson play, even when he's having good games, he's not an overly enthusiastic player. I mean, if you want to talk about a player caring or not, did you see his reaction when Besser scored or Dakota Joshua scored the tie of the game? Yeah. Then it seemed like a guy who's disengaged, you're not excited about things, right? So I think he's engaged, and honestly, I can't believe I'm doing this because I criticized his game last night. I just feel like I have to, after you go in after him a little bit here, reach. I thought in the last 10 minutes, he was actually pretty good. So JT was pretty bad last night, right? So you're re-watching the game, and you're like, "Oh, wow, ew, it was like, pew, it's kind of good." Yeah, it was kind of. Yeah, it was kind of. And I was not expecting that. No, yeah, I remember watching, going up and going, "Well, you had some chips." When the Canucks scored to make a 2-1, they had a few shifts in the off to zone, right? They started stringing together some pressure, and there was one shift in particular with Hughes, him and Hughes, really had some nice interchanges. He used his skill, believe it or not, reach, he used his skill to create space for himself to move the puck and did some things. And those are the things that he needs to do more of, right? And that's the frustrating part, is that you see it. It's like, why aren't you doing that more consistently, right? And I'm not sitting here and defending his game because I thought he was really bad in the first period, and we talk about the Julesin play, where he steps up and he's on the wrong side of the puck as well. He stops skating. We can blame Julesin, but you can also look at the forwards. Mckay Evan Pederson, like you mentioned too on that play, but I thought in the last 10 minutes when the Canucks tied it, he was one of the Canucks player that was more active. So it's there, like there's stuff that's there in his game, and he's a guy who cares. I do believe he cares, like it doesn't care, but it's simply not good enough right now. And if this team is gonna get past Edmonton, at some point he's gonna have to make a real mark in this series. Like Edmonton, when they have their best players playing at their best, the Canucks can't match that if they don't have Pederson at his best. No. It is one of the overwhelming obvious things that's happened through the first four games of this series. One adjustment to the Canucks need to make, they need Elias Pederson to play better, you know? Whether it's Ilia Mckayev or Jonathan Lecker-Mackie as his line mate, they need Elias Pederson to play better. Rick Talking is much confirmed today. I'm not moving Pederson to the top six, or I'm not moving them to play with Lindholm, or with Miller and Besser, he's keeping his top six the way that it is. So Pederson is going to have to view this as a challenge and figure it out because they need him to be better. That is a matchup like if Miller is having to take McDavid, and Lindholm is having to take dry side. Or however it turns out, Petey's left with Ryan McCloud or whomever else, like Petey's got to win that matchup. That's the bottom line at the end of the day. And now I want, you know, it's simple, you see him, you know, the coach mentions skating. Remember when the Canucks played Evans in the first game of the season, that big hit he threw? Yeah. Who do you hit again? I think it was Cece? I forget who it was. Was somebody who blew up at the blue line? Yeah, I think it was, I can't remember who it was. I can't, I can't remember. I remember, I remember it was somebody though, he blew up somebody. I do remember him like in a rare shift against McDavid, giving him extra shots away from the puck. That was game first game of the season, not on talking game one of the playoffs, right? That's game number one at an 82. And we've seen him skate around, throw his body around, right? Get in on the forward check and make plays. And those things aren't happening. And at some point, you just have to kind of take ownership of that and do those things. There are too many times where I see Leah's Pedersen make what I would say is a soft play. And you can't be that in the playoffs. Another adjustment I think the Canucks can make, play Quinn Hughes a little bit more. Yeah. I came at 24ish minutes a night, not enough right now, especially when Bouchard and Ekholm are being run as much as they are. Like Quinn was brilliant last night. In the third, especially, I thought he was the Canucks best skater. You look at the numbers, like the Canucks again, heavily outshot overall, but they outshot the Oilers when Quinn Hughes was on the ice. You know, it's pretty obvious where it adds up. And I know his partner isn't, is one of those guys that's probably a passenger right now. Bunch of zeros, bunch of donuts next to his name, Phillip Ronik. So yeah, I don't think you should be expecting the eight next to your name with a new contract come in this summer. But like, find ways to get Hughes on the ice more is an adjustment I think I would like to see. Can you do that without playing her onick more? I'm not sure, because it probably means Myers plays more, which I mean, yes, but we always know too, like we want Myers has been good in the playoffs, but there's also a diminishing return when you overplay him, so you kind of need to have him in the sweet spot. And they've already they've already had sushi and Myers like strictly as a shutdown pair, and they've had them. Yeah. And they've been very, very effective. Yeah. Right. And I guess you could always, you know, maybe I don't know what he was here this book throw a cold on his side, I guess, for a few shifts or something or even Zadorov. But the thing was Zadorov is maybe he's a little too dynamic, having Zadorov and Hughes together. I mean, they've tried it at times, but it's it's just find a way to get Hughes on the ice more is one thing I would say. All right, connect central round up game five tomorrow, obviously here in Vancouver, like or Mackie, possibly an option, but it looks like the Canucks will make a couple of lineup changes ahead of tomorrow night's game. They won't be breaking up the top two lines per Rick Talkett. And also this one, we're going to get into it with Kevin Woodley a little bit. Our goalie guru, Thatcher Demko, continues to progress report from Rick Dolly wall today that there is a lot of progression and we could see Demko in games six or seven of this series. So that's an interesting tidbit on the goalie situation for the Vancouver Canucks. We'll bring in our goalie guru next. It is Kevin Woodley on sports at 650. We're back on Canucks Central, San Rachel Satiarshaw. Canucks Central is for enzyme Pacifica Cougar's premier Chrysler Dodge Ram and Jeep Superstore on second Avenue between Camby and Maine or at enzyme Pacific Chrysler dot CA. Canucks playoff coverage on sports at 650 brought to you by Westside pest control. Back to your home with Westside pest control. They have the tools and know how to eliminate your wasp problem. Don't live in fear. Visit westside pest control dot com. Yeah, great stuff. We got this quickly. Josh from Vancouver sent me a note and Elias Patterson, a scooter today, hit going to and from the rink, apparently vibing. Vibing on the scooter. It's a nice day out. Maybe some good vibes. I guess. Yeah. Why isn't he watching tapes? That should be watching tape. What's wrong with his game or clearing, just like riding your scooter the day before a play. I'm kidding. I hope everybody knows I'm kidding. Listen, he spent he spent a few days in Edmonton. Yeah. He's just like, ah, we're back in paradise. It's like when people got mad about levy on Bell, like making a rap album during the off season or something. Yeah. It's like he's still the best running back in football. So I think he would realize how much downtime athletes also have. It's like you train for four or five hours. You still have a lot of time left in your day. Pretty much. Pretty, pretty much. We did get a lot of texts on the situation with the least better. So we'll try to get to some of those in a little bit. What did you make of the note and reports about Thatcher, Demko, sat? So I wouldn't be shocked if we see Thatcher, Demko being ready. But I'm still wondering if that's going to be the ultimately the right play to make here. We do have our next guest ready. It is Kevin Woodley. He is a presentation of White Rock Hyundai. Thanks for this. Woodley. What's up? Not much. Not much. I'm just standing outside of a Starbucks got tagged with the extra Euler story. So Canucks, Canucks availability at Rogers, Euler's at their hotel, needed to find a place to write. And I got to be honest with you guys, I'm going to have to be careful what I say here because Brock Besser just walked up and is sitting flat feet away from me as I do this interview. So I had a chuckle as he pulled up to grab a coffee on this beautiful day right as I was walking out to do this hit. Well, hilarious. Well, one of our listeners just saw Lee as Patterson riding a scooter around town. And now you're right there with the Brock star after another big game last night. So on Thatcher, Demko, what areas of Brock's game does he have to improve? Nothing. It's all perfect. Everything's fine with Brock Besser right now. Seven goals. Five says he's spending a brilliant in the playoffs. So what have you made of Thatcher, Demko's progression and how realistic is it that he could be an option going forward in the series? Honestly, I can't say because I haven't seen it. You know, what I saw out at UBC is this series was getting to start. Looked like a guy who had a ways to go. Yes, he was on his knees. He was moving around in the butterfly, but there was no wits of that butterfly. And when I talk about a wide butterfly, that means it's a picture. A picture when a goalie drops, where their feet are relative to their knees, and you take a think of a guy like our tours who's, you know, like those skates almost go straight out in the pads for my, you know, like an almost six foot wide wall, like that's a wide butterfly. And then you look at Calvin Pickard and Stu Skinner, little narrower butterflies, the feet are in behind them. And anytime you get that width in your butterfly, Thatcher's got a wide butterfly. Anytime you get that width, you naturally increase internal rotation in the hip and put more pressure on the inside of the knee, which is obviously the area of concern here. And so that type of movement, like what I saw at UBC was a guy in an aerobutter fly. And so I was, somebody talked to me and watched him skate the other day, but without video, it's impossible for me to sort of say, you know, how it is because I don't know how wide that butterfly is. And that's the internal frame. The main understanding is he's been able to get a little internal rotation in the movements. And that may be the sort of immense, I can't remember the words exactly, the breakthrough that that talk had indicated has happened in the last 72 hours. That would be a big thing because that means you're able to sort of feel like you're putting stress on the inside of that knee. And you're able to move through it. He was down making movements into posts in Edmonton, evidently ahead of game four. But again, without seeing it and seeing just, you know, how aggressively, how powerful the pushes are, you know, how much impact there is when you go into the post, I really can't say. I was always on an impression that late, originally I was on an impression late second round was possible. I was told later that it would be more likely conference final. At the end of the day, all I care about is that when that decision is ultimately made, you know, it's a safe decision and that we don't have a risk of a repeat because obviously two injuries to the same joint are not ideal. And you'd hate to see anything that, you know, I know everybody's focused on the next four days and next four weeks, but I'm a little more worried about the athlete for the next four years, right? Like, this is somebody that not just I, but people around the league like to watch play and you want to do it for a long time. Well, and, and listen, it's impossible for us to know because we don't know the days and how many days have gone by, how much he's loading and how much stress he's putting on that joint. I just keep thinking about it and I'm saying, let's just argue and say that he say he started doing these things earlier this week or a few days ago and game six is Saturday and game seven is Monday. I mean, I just don't know. I mean, I'm not trained on this, but given how he came back last time to me, it doesn't seem like a lot of time for him to really strengthen it and feel super confident ahead of game seven. Maybe they know things we don't. I just, that's why I would be skeptical based on the timeline that we are aware of from the outside. Yeah, and at the end of the day, like I just, I'd be guessing without seeing, right? Like I was teasing trans the other day because obviously he saw him on the ice in Edmonton. You know, you've got a phone, the button next to the photo that you posted makes a video. Let me have a look. So without seeing that, I can't say the reality is, you know, even last time when he came back, you know, they wanted, it felt like how many practice days, I was trying to remember it's at least two full, and remember the first one wasn't a full practice, so we didn't get to talk to him and there wasn't sort of dynamic shooting or scramble drills. Like it was all rust shooting, but there wasn't sort of scrambles and reaction side to side. Like there was a progression there. And so if we're not into live reactive shooting with shooters and we're not into open sort of do whatever you want on a rebound environment, and as you said, this close to game six and seven, it does feel unlikely. But hey, like you like talk, it said, you know, massive strides or again, I pair for anything for life of me despite writing that story two hours ago. I can't remember exactly what the words were. I think immense was one of them. You know, I just don't know how, you know, how much more realistic that makes it to me. It's kind of, you know, from everything I've seen and heard, it's been a bit of a long shot. But again, I go back to what I said when he first got hurt. If anyone's going to pull this off, whether should pull it off or not, it's going to be Thatcher who is as competitive as any goaltender I've met and very driven and very much wants to be a part of this in the Stanley Cup playoffs. All that being said, and we know Thatcher is, I mean, he's a Vesna finalist, he's a Vesna caliber goalie. It's hard to find that and Arthur Shilovs has been pretty good, right? And last night, I think was as good a performance as we've seen from Shilovs to this point, considering the way Edmonton was really pushing the Canucks, especially through the first 40 minutes. There really isn't like, I would say, not being a goalie expert, of course, too much to quibble with what you've got out of Arthur Shilovs to this point. He's given you everything you need to win, right? Like the adjusted numbers aren't quite as flattering as the ITES, like they're not negative by any means. But it's in terms of what Edmonton's creating and I guess if you're looking at it from the Canucks perspective, what you are or aren't giving up, like how much you're restricting things, right? So they've done a good job even at times where it looks dangerous to maybe make it look less or be less dangerous than what we're seeing. But I'm with you. I think even with post-Canada, it was nine high danger last night and I thought the degree of difficulty on some of them, the lateral movement required, especially into the posts on Bang Bang plays down low, which you always do as well as anyone was, again, he's not the reason they lost that game. Even though I've heard some people quibble with the third one, and I could be honest with you, like a day later, I'm still not sure I've had a look at where and when he picked that up, someone who had a quick word with him after the game, said he got eyes on it about halfway to him, and as I've said before, a lot of people will be like, "I don't care if it gets deflected 20 feet in front of you. You've got to react at this level in the NHL if you're not reading it off the release. You're already so far behind, especially when that releases off the stick of an Evan Gooshard. It may not have been a Bush bomb, but that guy can shoot it. So I have no, I don't think you fault our turds." I don't think you fault our turds. I made already into Fardi. I don't think you fault him for that one at all, guys, and again, I'm not worried about goaltending, right? That's not what we're worried about heading into Game 5. You know, I wonder too, because the third goal yesterday, I think about maybe the echolm goal, and I guess it was Game 1 now going way back, but even the Carrier goal in Game 5 against Nashville. A couple of these seeing eye shots from the point is this an area where, like, Shilov's maybe has some work and some improvement to do finding those pucks from the point. Yeah, and even some of the dry-cidal goals, you know, on the power play, the one-timers from bottom of the circle, the dry-cidal spot, you know, clearly the reason he's getting beat on those is because he's looking around screens on the wrong side or getting caught, you know, on the far side of a screen and not getting back to the short side in time for the one-timer. I don't know that I fault him so much on those because they do a very good job of forcing you. You know, like, the one, two games ago, that's a left shot up near the top of the circle in Ryan Nugent Hopkins on that one, I believe it was, so he's a left shot looking right at you with a puck on his stick in a shooting position and Zach Hyman's pulling you short side. If you keep following him short side and stay on the side, dry-cidles part, Nugent Hopkins is going to put that far side in and in on you. So you can only sort of follow that so much and Hyman does such a good job. Last night, I thought it was Hyman in front, it's McDavid cutting through the high slot. The mistake on that one to me was probably, you know, made by Joshua reaching up toward Bouchard to open that lane to McDavid to skate through and you have to commit to that. And in addition to, I think it was Hyman in front of him, Myers is beside Hyman and a big body himself and kind of creates a double screen and so our turs has to take an extra step to his right and extra lean over to his right to find that puck and it's McDavid so you have to and that's just enough for dry side a little one-time it off him and in. I still thought he got there, he got across, just wasn't able, didn't have the time to gain rotation and as soon as you're not rotated into squareness, that's when pucks hit you and go through and that one obviously got him up high and that's a bit of an unfortunate bounce. Normally when you get that much of it, it almost felt like it was like sort of off the next shoulder area, maybe even the side of the mask and ultimately ends up in the net. But I don't, I think screens are an issue and something he's still working on. I told you guys the numbers in the regular season in a tiny sample weren't all that great, they were a little worrisome, comes with experience, it comes with time, obviously you can't sort of invent any of that on the fly. I think it's sort of the good thing for the Canucks is that's not necessarily how the Oilers create offense. And so yeah, they've gotten a few looks and they've capitalized, I'll be curious to see if they start to look for that more as this series goes on. To me, they're just such a dynamic offensive team, especially on dry side or McDavid or on the ice, that they're not a group that's going to just get it back to the point and settle for that. And in some ways that might be working to the Canucks favor right now as one of the few areas that our jurors have struggled in. On the other side, we saw Cal and Pickert get the start last night and I mean he fared well enough that they won the hockey game of course, wasn't tested a ton, but the Canucks obviously got a couple goals by him. To me it looked like he kicked out some rebounds that were there, that Edmonton did a good job of clearing out and we were talking on the post game show last night, that in some ways it was reminiscent of Casey the Smith a little bit, we'll make the save, but there's some change, but if you box that in front of him, you can clear that stuff out. But in terms of him getting the starting game five, which is what it looks like based on some of the reporting, what can the Canucks do better and what can they take advantage of a bit more if Pickert is between the pipes for Edmonton again? Well, first of all, you got to get to those areas. And I think this is, you know, last night, I thought was the first time we've seen out of this Oilers team, what I thought they were defensively as a group all season, like this is an Edmonton team and you guys heard me talk about this throughout the season. They were a top five, you know, I think even top three, five on five, high danger chance against defensive team, like it's for all the reputation and all the talk. And I remember even actually asking, talk ahead of the series, if they get enough credit for being a good defensive team and he talked about all, he talked more about possession and you're a good defensive team when you have the puck and they have the puck in the other end all the time, I think they're actually, and there was a, there was a, there's more of a stiffness to their game, a hardness, and we make a lot about the Canucks, you know, they're the size of their defense after that top pair and as a group they averaged six, three, two, thirteen, same as Vegas did last year. Well, the Oilers are six, four, two, ten on average. And so I thought they did a really nice job of taking away some of that area in front of their goalie, you're right about Pickert, rebounds are an area where statistically, you know, that's, that's, he's underwater, like that's one of the areas this season where they are there and they've gone in more than, you know, they, they historically are on average should in the National Hockey League level. And I thought there were a few there early in the Canucks weren't anywhere close to getting to them. So that's one area. The other one and again, this is easy to say but hard to do because there's a team on the other end preventing it, you got to, if you can establish a four check, you can create and create off the cycle low high, blueger had one of these but he put it right in his chest. Low high offense was a 55 goals in the regular season, low high pop passes placed from below the bottom of the circle or below the goal line were 17 of those 55 goals. That's over 30% of the goals scored on Calvin Pickert this, Pickard this year. And that's well above league average. There's a tendency when he moves as much as in straight line shots or when he's in his stance and you're coming at him with time and space, he will hold that glove up in a fingers up position up around his shoulder and take away top glove or at least visually. There's a tendency when you get him moving East West to sort of drop it and go into more of a blocking position. And that's where you have to rope pucks high glove. In the season, again, 55 goals in the regular season, 20 were high glove, only three high blocker. So if there's a side to pick clearly, that's it. Now obviously some of that is the plays that are being created but I think we saw it even on the best or save where that glove comes down and he makes a nice save low over the pad. You know, those are plays. If you've got him moving, you need to elevate off low high and looks like that. And the other one is just sort of like post playing scrambles and if you get him in one on one, stretch him out like best or scores, low gloves on on Stuart Skinner in game three, you know, after the turnover he walks across, you get that same look against Calvin Pickard. You've either got a routed high glove or you got to keep skating and stretch him out because chances are with that narrow butterfly I mentioned earlier and some of the sort of limitations laterally, chances are he's going to end up reaching, stretching and sprawled out a little bit rather than following that across. So listen, like when I say that too, it feels like I'm picking on these guys. There are a lot of strengths for his game. He has given them above expected goal-tending all year. It's all they've said they've needed in the playoffs and they haven't gotten it out of Skinner. He gave it to them last night and it was enough to win. Like there's a lot to love. He will battle. Does he open up when he battles? Like on on backdoor chances, does he get across and get a body, you know, across in front of it like you might like in goalie school? No. He'll reach sometimes. But within that reach and within that battle, he's got the ability to make spectacular saves and sort of extended saves. Maybe not how you teach, but there's a real natural sort of read and react, old school element to how he plays goal. And so like as I walk through the how to score on him, don't dismiss that as this guy can't play. Those are just relative weaknesses. There are still a lot of positives on how Calvin Pickard plays goal. Like I said, on the whole in the season, he's above expected, which is all you want to ask from your backup. And it's what he gave him last night. And that was enough. Quickly one final one before we let you go, but I you're a goalie guru. I want to get your take on the goalie interference calls first the the one, I guess that Sam Bennett scored against the Bruins. And then of course the one yesterday that got a lot of play where the Bruins score on Sir Gabriel Browski. He does the whole song and dance where he drops his stick and like, Hey, this is goalie interference. What do you what do you make of the the situations and do we actually know what goalie interference is? No, because I think there's way too much being left to interpretation now. And listen, I'm not surprised. I said when they brought in the replay rule, I said, you're going to lose so many goals. If you call this by the letter of the law, that eventually will have to shift like and that's exactly what happened. Like they've created gray areas in the black and white. It's all goalie interference and a lot of goals will come off the board. So, you know, the first grader we we we sort of added was this whole blue ice. I mean, I remember Tim Thomas in 2011, if I get to my spot above the blue ice outside of the crease and I'm there first, that's my ice and that was the way it was supposed to be. Now we've added contact by sort of creating this, you know, anything outside of here is fair game to a degree, incidental content, which again, contact, which again is, you know, open to interpretation. To me, is Jeremy Swamin likely to make that save when Coyle gets dumped in his lap? No. But that's not how the rules written. Does he have a chance to make that save if Coyle isn't dumped into his lap? Absolutely. Babrovsky made a similar, you know, like, you know, backhanded, reached the arm out save Brayton, hope be turned around a Stanley Cup final with a, you know, reaching extended paddle save against the Vegas Golden Knights or the Washington Capitals. Who's to say, even if he didn't make a push, even if he didn't, you know, get his body across, I just talked about Picard, like those are the types of saves where you reach a paddle out and you maybe change a series with this incredible save to take away an open net. And the fact he's wearing his forward on his lap on the blocker that holds the stick that might make that save, that's interference. Now you, if they ruled that Coyle wasn't pushed hard enough and that he couldn't, you know, he didn't need to end up, maybe that's part of it, but in terms of the actual contact, that's goalie interference. And frankly, as much as people don't like that Bob sells it, so was that one. That one should probably should have come off the board of my eyes too. This idea that he had time to reset after contact like that when I always talk about set and square things that are principles of his game and that contact in the crease prevents him from being set and square as that guy is making a release and getting a clean read on it. Like to me, that one's goalie interference too. So I guess the long answer is I don't have an answer because it seems like we're strength further and further away from the black and white nature of the rule when they first announced the reviews. And as much as I'm not surprised, I do find it at times a little troubling. I do feel less critical of Rick talking now for not challenging some of those calls in the first round. But we'll leave that for another day. Woodley, I always appreciate it. Thanks for this. Yeah. And just so you guys know, you've cost me the opportunity to pet Brock Besser's dog because they've gone now and they were the best looking dogs. So I blame you both. A couple of good boys, I'm sure. Thanks for this, Woodley. Have a good one, guys. There he is. Kevin Woodley on Sports at 650 brought to you by White Rock Hyundai visit the showroom on King George in White Rock or White Rock Hyundai.com, Canucks playoff coverage on Sports at 650 brought to you by West Side Pest Control. Protect your home with West Side Pest Control. They have the tools and know how to eliminate your Wasp problem. Don't live in fear. Visit Westside Pest Control dot com. We're going to get to overrated underrated when we return on Canucks Central.
