[MUSIC] >> Fan morning shows 4 7 5 9 of the fan men at a spring gunning. >> We don't have starters for tonight's hockey game, by the way. >> Calvin Pickard would assume, going off a victory. >> Resumped him, like, yes, yeah. >> You would go back to Pickard, I guess. >> Thatcher Demko apparently working his way back, like zoning in on it. >> Can we talk about that for two seconds? >> Yes, that's what it was. >> How would you feel about that, like pretend this God would have, like, I know your living life is someone like in Toronto caring about the leaves. But it's not like being connects fans, like, so much more fun. But put yourself in the shoes of a connects fan, do you want Demko? Do you not want Demko? Like, this is the guy, this is as much a core piece of the franchises. Anybody else there, you can argue as much as better saying anybody else. But a goalie coming off that long of a layoff, goal tending hasn't been what's done you in. >> Not only that, Artur Shilov's won an elimination game again. So, like, admittedly, not, they're not the capitals, but the predators were not the Oilers or the Avalanche, the Stars, either, won an elimination game, won nothing. A shout out to get them into the second round where they're, all the pressure was on them. >> Yeah, no, man, I mean, the real question is if Thatcher Demko is available for tonight's game, if he's not, like, you're almost like breathing a sigh of relief that you don't have to do it. >> Yeah. >> And then, if he doesn't play tonight's game, and Shilov's wins it and looks good, you're in, I think you're kind of in St. Jeremy Swayman territory. >> Yep. >> Right. >> Like with Leanis Almark, like, I think you're nuts, nuts, crazy cuckoo bananas to go to Thatcher Demko in a game six. If Shilov's plays tonight and they win and he looks pretty good, you'd be insane, frankly, to go back to the better goalie, probably, in Thatcher Demko. >> Well, I mean, we don't have, we don't know what Shilov's is. >> Sure. >> But yeah, the better goalie, but I don't care. It's, he's done it. >> Yep. >> Proof of concept is there. You'd be nuts to go to Demko in game six if he's not good to go tonight and Shilov looks good and they win the game. >> I wholeheartedly agree with you. Let's extrapolate this. Let's say they win and there's a little bit, let's say they win the next two, there's a little bit of a layoff before the next series, not that that's guaranteed by any means. Does that give you like a little bit of a pause, a little bit of a reset to go to Demko or you're just in Spieloff territory until he waffles? >> Yeah, I'm in Shilov's territory, honestly. >> I understand the reasons why you wouldn't and I guess you gotta apply logic. >> But why would you? >> It's goal tending. >> It's goal tending, it's the most random sport, it's the sport that's most impacted by just unquantifiable things. >> I don't know how you go away from them. >> No, and I also think that you, not that the options they have available to them are Joe Wall and Ilya Sampsonov, I like the ones they have there. If it's a healthy Demko and Spieloff doing what he's been doing, but I think you put yourself in a position if you're the Canucks where having a healthy, whatever that means, a good to go Thatcher Demko waiting in the wings if Spieloff does falter at some point here, and not say he's necessarily healthy right now, but I think you feel better about that of going to Demko if Spieloff falters than the other way where you go to Demko and you gotta go back to Spieloff. >> Yes. >> Yeah, I'm with you. I think until he falters, you're in Spieloff territory here. >> So Calvin Pickard picked up the victory, and he did watch a two goal lead disappear on him in the third period, but whatever scoreboard, they scored with under a minute left, and they obviously wanted to score the goal with 30 seconds left. >> I think we're very much in a realistic possibility of this Euler's team being absolutely ready to win a Stanley Cup except for one position, it's the most important in all the sports. And what do they do next season when you're still paying Jack Campbell $5 million bucks for the rest of time, Stuart Skinner also under contract for years beyond this one, two more years beyond this one, two six. What do you do with that position if you're the Edmonton Oilers, and like everything's right there, and you saw proof of concept with like, you don't need the best goal attending in the world, cuz the Avalanche did it two years ago, but you also can't have the worst in the postseason. What do you do? And what is the messaging around this Euler's team that's goal tending that has them departing before even the Western Conference final? >> We're sure everything's right there for that. Like I think the Euler, I think they're a great team. I think they have a lot of good pieces they like, but I, and this isn't to say like he hasn't been, he got pulled. There's a reason they've gone to pick her. This isn't to say Skinner, but I look at the goals that Edmonton's giving up. You can't. >> Seventy save is. >> No, no, it's 70. >> It's putrid. But what did we say during some of the Samsonov time, again, not to make everything about the Leafs, but welcome to the show. We're here. We have to make everything about the Leafs. >> That's right. >> It's like, what did we say when Samsonov was getting lit up? Yes, Samsonov was no good. Yes, he was thinking, you know what else we said? The team, if you got a goalie like that, can't give up chances like that. And this isn't to say the Oilers are some, you know, leaky unit that's just giving up chances left, right and center. >> But they're built on the strength of their offense. >> They are. And this is also, though, a Canucks team that is a fine team, but the idea that you can't get it done against the Canucks and you're right there, are you right there? If the Canucks are the team that's ultimately holding you back, I think that there'll be a big time, a referendum coming out of that series, if it's the Oilers. So if the Canucks lose, it's kind of, okay, step in the process, you go about your business. But if it's the other way around, oh man. >> Yeah, and the Oilers are in a tied series and they're favored in tonight's game, despite being on the road. They're favored to win the series. >> Yeah. >> All right, time now for our insider brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus, where you can expect excellence online and in the showroom, visit Don Valley, Northlexus.com. Today's insider, the great Luke Gazdick, former NHLer, Hockey Central Analyst, for Sportsnet, host of the Mitzoff podcast. How's it going, Luke? >> Good, fellas. How you guys doing? >> All right, well, I mean, were you staring down the possibility of doing this hit, doing that, that game late on Sportsnet, and it being a one goal game and thinking about like the quintuple over time, and then like you having to wake up and do this radio hit? >> What, last night? >> Yeah. >> Oh, most definitely. Ronnie was calling it. Ron thought it was OT all the way. >> Yeah. >> Man, it's elimination games are tough and like Colorado is going to be a tough team to put away, I'm glad they showed some fight and brought it back to Denver, because I'll take as many games of those two teams as I can, but for sure, I thought we were having one of those triple OT, sitting in the studio waiting for it to end kind of nights. >> Yeah, hand up, I, you know, I don't have to, you know, I'm watching all these games pretty intently, but I'm not like working them on television, so I don't have to be quite as like, you know, energetic as you. I was, I was praying that game was going to end. I needed to go to bed, so yeah, I was thrilled, but you're right, like the idea that more hockey from those teams, you know, the thing we, the way we kind of set up that series in terms of Colorado and Dallas, and you know, I think you guys talked about this a little on the, on the panel as well, is just the idea of the, or maybe the touchdown during the game, either way, the different ways to go about building your roster, the avalanche are much more in the kind of Stars and Scrubs model, they have the high, high end skill, and not the Dallas doesn't have high end skill. I'm not saying this to diminish high-scanning or even what you're getting out of like Wyatt Johnson or Povelsky, turn him back the clock, but they just have a much more kind of, you know, one through 18 mentality than the avalanche that are buoyed by, you know, three, four big guys and a good supporting cast. Do you think that this is going to kind of impact the way teams across the NHL want to build their team? Not to say like the winner of this series is the right way to build your franchise, but it does seem like two kind of polar opposite ways to go about it. And when you look at Dallas's salary structure versus Colorado's. Yeah, it's an interesting thought. I think on the Colorado and that's one thing they wanted to identify at the trade deadline. They went out and picked up two of their three guys on the fourth line and trending in do him. They wanted to get heavier. Dallas from top to bottom from line one to four outside of me, like knowing, like I know Sam Steele, I played with them so I know when the fourth line's on the ice, but outside of that, like you can barely tell some nights which line one through three is on the ice at one time. They can all skate, they can all contribute, they can all produce. I think the league is slowly heading back to like this four line model of all play my fourth line against your first line any day of the week where there are still a number of teams in the league and like most definitely when I was in the league, like if we got caught out there against the first line, like coaches yelling at the top of as long as for us to get off the ice, I think Vegas really kind of brought this back and I mean, you can even go as far back to Tampa with like how good their third line was. But Vegas with like the fourth line model where it was like our fourth line isn't just going to go out there and hit and you know, do that, that physical kind of blend a game that that we like to see that they can also score and produce too. And we don't mind them playing defensive games against top lines like we'll leave our coach will leave them out there against them. So I think Colorado's got it down pat, like they played their fourth line all the way up till probably three minutes left in the game last night and Dallas has done that from day one. So I think they're giving a pretty good glimpse into what makes a team and today's modern NHL successful. Yeah, spread out the money a little bit a little bit more than the Leafs have done. But also helps in like one of the guys is a hard trip. It always comes back to the Leafs, hey? Everything, of course. Look, we had a Blue Jays discussion this morning that got derailed by comparing the team to the Leafs. Like there is truly no topic in this world that does not lead back to the Leafs at least not on the road. You're a Toronto guy. Answer this question. Like who's been, who's been more disappointing over their tenure? The the Leafs under Austin Matthews are like that era starting in 16 or the Blue Jays with bow and Vlad, so starting in like 19, but like, yeah, 20, they made the playoffs 21, the 191 games didn't make the playoffs 22, the 192 games made the playoffs didn't win a game, blue, big lead and game two against the Mariners. Last season making the playoffs with 89 wins and you can include the month and a half of this season of Blue Jays. Like who's been more disappointing over the tenure with the young players where like everything seemed possible? Like when Austin Matthews arrives, it's like, well Stanley Cups are our birthright. When bow and Vlad arrived, it's like, gosh, it's a matter of time before they win World Series. Hasn't happened. Who's been more disappointing? I mean, for me, it's hands down the J's just because I think I'm a bigger J's fan than I am a lease fan, not to say I don't like the Leafs, but I'm just like so heavily invested in the J's like throughout the mid 2010s was probably, you know, some of the most fun I've had as a J's fan. 15 was awesome. 15 was amazing, like I remember we were playing in St. Louis when they were playing KC and we like have the game on before the game because we have so many Canadians on our team that are invested in it. I'm this Toronto kid who grew up here and I'm just like, like I understand now kind of the leaf side of it with my buddies who like get so hyped up before every year and obviously we play a part in it and the media and being like, this is it. This is the year. The bullpen's good. Like we got all these pieces and this year for me, it's just like, what is this team? Like, what are we doing here? This is probably, I was saying this to a buddy the other day. This is probably the furthest detached from the J's that I felt in a while just in terms of like the roster turnover, nobody being left from any of those teams we just talked about and just like not a very fun style of baseball to watch. Like I went to a game the other day and I was just like, this is boring. Like, I don't know, I just it's maybe disappointing for me. Home run. Exactly. It's just so it's disappointing for me. So I'll go with the J's all day as somebody on the show thought that was the right right idea. So I'm thrilled to have you in agreement with me, Luke. You know, we mentioned at the the idea like just getting back to the salary structure stuff there. How much of the and again, you're right, it all does come back to the Leafs. How much of it is that just that and you know, I don't think the Leafs, I can make the argument that the Leafs don't have a single player as good as Kale McCar and I include Austin Matthews in that. That's how special I think McCar is. But you know, if Mitch Marner or William Newlander is just a defenseman, are we even having these conversations? You know, that's obviously you'd want to a defenseman that plays the game in a different way. Like I don't know that not to besmirch Quinn Hughes, but it's like, that's not what they're missing back there. But how much of the Leafs problems and ills is just that the guys they hit on are all forwards. Like again, if one of those guys, if even, you know, if John Tavares was what he is as a rugged defense man, if he was true doubt, he would be having very different conversation. Like how much of it is just that they and I don't want to say it's bad luck because they made these decisions. They put themselves in it. But you hit on those three guys and it's pretty hard not to pay them and build around them in Marner, Newlander and Matthews. Man, like, look at the abs. It just makes your team so dynamic. Like when you can create offense and when you're on a team like that, you really don't even have to worry about breaking out the puck. Like whether it's even strength or on the power play, like, at any, at any point, like, even Edmonton gets into faulted at a lot where they'll always stop behind the net and consistently wait for these set breakouts, whether it's a line change or not. Like Kale gets the puck and his heads up ice and he's gone. Even on the other side, Mero Hayskinn is coming into his own as well. Like those guys just carry the play and you basically just try to keep up with them. And when you can get that type of skating and offense from your back end, man, it just makes your team so much better. And it's a great point because that's obviously just something the Leafs are missing where a lot of their firepower is up at the front of their lineup and watching the abs is just so much fun and watching Kale McCar is so much fun. I'm glad that you said that about Quinn because I've loved watching Quinn and Vancouver this year. But to me, he's going to win the Norris, but also to me, they're not even in the same category. Like still, when you watch Kale at the blue line, breaking ankles of like Jamie Ben and Sam Steele and Logan Stankov in these like legitimate NHLs, he looks like he looks like prime Datsuk in the way he can like break a guy down. Like, we don't think of a crossover aside from like, you know, skating, but we don't think of a guy getting crossed over like he does in the NBA. But that is basically what he does. And it honestly just takes me back to like the prime Datsuk clips, the famous one of him sitting couture down there. 100%. Like he has a play last night where Sagan, who's been in the NHL for what 14 years runs out to the point, Kale pump fakes and walks around, cuts to the middle and then almost triple deeks the goalie. And it's like, what are we doing here? Like, how do you defend that? It's, it's just, it's so fun to watch and you just take the game over at any point. And those guys are their best players. Like, that's the difference I think for me, whether it's defensemen or forwards, like Barney said it going, you know, the third period yesterday. He said, if the abs win this game, it's going to be on the backs of their stars and literally Nate and Kale go out in the third period and are probably their two best players. And what do you know, the abs win the game? And we're going back to Denver for game six. So it's fun team to watch, man. And there's nobody like Kale Makar in hockey. Who do you think this is Stanley Cup favorite right now? Cause all the series are now close. Like they're all, they're all either and none are done. They're, they're all either tied or somebody's up three, too. Who is who in your mind looks the best and most primed to win the Stanley Cup right now? So great question. I was shocked when I saw yesterday, I think the betting favorite is still Edmonton. They were like plus 350 or something. And I'm an Edmonton lifer. And I just, I don't want to say I don't see it. But when I watch Dallas play, and it's tough to say because they lost last night. But when I watch Dallas play, they have everything they need to win a cup. I think it rests on the shoulders of Jake Audinger, who did not have a great game last night. But this team produces offense. Like it's easy to them. They defend they, there's no team more in hockey that blocks more shots than Dallas. They defend like crazy. They have skill up and down their lineup. Like we just talked about rolling four lines. They play their fourth line the entire night. And not only do they defend, but they get offense out of them. Hayskinen is an absolute stud that they just look like the most complete team to me. Like it's going to be, it's going to be tough after, you know, going through two rounds for them of what they had to go through Vegas for seven and then having to, having to probably push this thing to seven with Colorado. We'll see what effort, kind of effort they make in game six. But to me, Dallas looks primed for it. Yeah, Dallas is, I mean, they are, there's good a team. And I mean, you have somebody, I won't say it's found money because it goes first round pick. But Wyatt Johnson kind of busting on to the scene, the way he has. And just, you know, you have moments like this early on in the playoffs. And it just, it can kind of change your trajectory for what you are. And you know, it's not like they needed it there. But having another really just competent, young forward kind of learning to play this playoff style early in his career. It's remarkable what it, what it can kind of do for him. What have you made of the way just switching gears back to the Edmonton Vancouver series there? What do you made of the way? Talk it has handled everything there. Didn't pull any punches. Also didn't call anyone out individually looping in five or six players that were passengers. What have you, I mean, coaching through the media is again, to make everything about the Leafs who is such a topic with Sheldon Keefe. What have you made of the way talk? It is kind of handled things in that series specifically with, I mean, we know who he's talking about here in in Patterson. Yeah, it's funny you asked that, man, because I was literally thinking about talking about this on TV tonight. I have just, I've loved watching talk like from day one, the way he runs the show, the way he runs that team, whether it's how he speaks in the media, how he speaks to his players, the way he coaches in game, out of game, line ups, like there's a reason he's going to win the Jack Adams. And it's, to me, it's because of things like this, like in the media, he goes out and there's, if there's one thing that drives me nuts, it's when coaches call out players by name in the media. And I understand it's like holding players accountable and all this and like media, media names and types want to hear names from coaches every now and then. But when they come out and just bury your players, like, I've had coaches that will tell us, they'll be like, boys, you're going to hear like, I'm going to give it to you guys. And it's like, it's all good. But he goes out there and holds them accountable. But like you said, like doesn't really bury anybody. The team knows they have to be better. And he's kind of just instilling that in him. I've, I've loved the way he's handled it. The team hasn't really responded so far. This playoffs are the serious story. I don't even think they've seen the real Euler team yet, which is crazy to say because it's two, too. But I don't think Ben Covers played like an incredibly great brand of hockey so far. They get no shots on that. They, I think both teams, to be honest, are really depending on their top end talent. But I'm just a big fan of talk and how he's, he's run the ship over there in Vancouver. Yeah, he's been spectacular getting them to win the division, went around. And yeah, he feels disappointed that they're in a two, two series against one of the favorites to win the Stanley Cup last one. Because yeah, everything comes back to Toronto. There's still a head coach to be hired here for the Toronto Maple Leafs. I mean, to that point about coaching through the media, it does feel like Craig Barouba is the favorite to be the next head coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs. He's, he's had some pretty notable call on out people, maybe not by name, but like all the high priced guys in St. Louis, he had a very notable media availability that we played some clips from yesterday in 2023 in February. How much a part of the, the, the coaching arsenal should be coaching through the media for the next head coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Well, he's going to have to figure that out or he'll figure that out very quickly here in Toronto. But is that what they need? I don't know. I don't necessarily think so. I think these players need a guy who kind of gets it. And he does. But I don't know if it's, if it should be through the media, like possibly it has in the past. I don't want to say I don't know if Craig's a guy. I just, I don't know enough about him. But I don't know if he's the type of guy that they need right now. There's a couple guys that I've seen on lists and that I have in mind that I might think would be a good fit. But you're right. It sure is looking like at least they're trying to make this thing happen. No, I don't love the coaching through the media. I love when coaches are upfront and honest and have great relationships with their players. If you, if you do, then you don't have to do that stuff in front of the media. If you are on good terms with your players and you coach them individually, but as a team as well, I don't feel like you have to go out in the media and do those types of things. Those types of things can be done behind closed doors. And I guess he'll learn that very quickly, like I said, here in Toronto or or he won't. But we'll see. We'll see what happens here because it looks like this thing might happen. Yeah, it does. And maybe as early as this week, Luke, always enjoying your work on on the broadcast last night. We'll be watching again tonight. Thanks for doing this this morning. Thanks, you guys are the best. Have a good day. All right, you too, buddy. Luke Gazdick, former NHL or hockey central analyst for sports at those of the mitts off podcast also are inside or brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus where you can expect excellence online and in the showroom, visit Don Valley North Lexus.com. Honestly, the answer he gave on Craig Burubi is kind of the thing that I said yesterday about what I think might be happening in the front office of the Toronto Maple Leafs. I think there's an element of it. This will not shock you because I've been making the point about talk it that I think you took the exact right tack to not naming names. I think you there's nothing. The next coach is going to have to understand that there is an element of public calling out that I think the fan base wants to see. And I think you and I think I think you have to give them that to a certain extent, a little bit if it's warranted early, but I also think that if it's performative or it seemed to be doing the bluster or if we get the clip of the first practice at camp and there's a slam and sticks and wake up and you got to be careful with that side of it as well. It'll shock you because I've said it all, but I agree with what a lot of Luke had to say there. I think he's bang on and talk it. I think he's bang on on Burubi could the Maple Leafs get Rick talk it. You think he's like they renegotiate at the end of the season in the late. Here's the thing. Maybe whoever they want. There's not there's no person that the Leafs just can't have like it's only money. Yeah. I mean, maybe it's a John Farrell situation where like this dream job is dream job. Yeah, although I will say that that Aqualini's been tweeting a little bit throughout the playoffs. He's feeling himself. He'd get into like a piss and match about both the size of a contract. I feel like right now, not that he needs to because, you know, under contract. Bring him home Scarborough's own Rick talk it. Well, why not? It's funny. One of the myriad of guys that once connected maybe, but they didn't want him as his assistant. Can you imagine a world in which I mean, it would never happen again. But like say it did where, you know, Rick talk it and the Toronto Maple Leafs are talking and they somehow steal him from Vancouver. I mean, the Canucks already feeling like the Leafs. So they're their rivals, despite the fact they only play twice a season. And it's to feel like they get big brother because they do on hockey night in Canada when they have to play it for Pacific time. And then the Leafs steal their head coach. Oh God. After a Jack Adams win. What I would give for that. No, no, of course not. But like how good would that be? I think you'd have to start the next Toronto game in Vancouver and four o'clock Eastern time, I think, just to like really rub it in their face. Yeah, a man can dream. All right. When we come back at Nanburg, MLB network in the E center file podcast, the fan morning show continues bananas, Brent Gunning sports at five ninety the fan. Breaking down the top stories in the NHL every day. The jazz Mary show. Subscribe and download the show on Apple Spotify or wherever you get your never winning another major ever again. And like 2019, what a gift. I mean, it took a bunch of guys just fallen by the wayside. That's the tiger effect, baby. Yeah. But you can listen to JD say they all took the dive for him. If you bring this up with him. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Brooks Kepka on the back nine there had some like curious. Yeah, you know why? Because Tiger almost made an ace on 16 and then Kepka looked down from the T box on 17 to see that the greatest golfer he'd ever seen in his life was right there. And then he well, he melted away as the tiger effect. Yeah, it's like he's never going to win again, but it's it's still like, I want to get sucked in. Oh my God. And he just had like what a 15 footer for birdie on one. Hey, if that any missed it. Yeah, par on one sweaty man boop situation going on for right now. Yeah, that's like a fanatics like good. Yeah, it's fanatics providing the the official for sure. Don't ask how to beat you better. You'd be like, I don't know what you're talking about. Jam is anyways, they're going to change the uniforms next season. Don't worry about it. All right. Let's talk to our guy, Adnan Burke, MLB network in the Cinephile podcast. How's it going, man? I'm doing great Ben Brent. I have a brief Tiger Woods story for you. I have a lifelong to stay lifelong to staying up golf. I've never cared for it. The great George Carlin had a wonderful well, it's been fun. Adnan. Thanks for coming on. I will talk to you next week. All right. See you later. No, go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Carlin has this great bit just how, you know, golf is essentially trivial at a waste of time. People don't like their family. Try to get away from them, etc. So that that always impacted my life. I could have no interest in golf because of George Carlin. But years later at the score, they needed someone to go to masters and hilariously and probably I was sent. So, you know, Cal have said, so many, I mean, we said everyone's done because this guy is not like, oh, there's anything about. I'm there. And I got to cover the masters in 2008 when Trevor Immel and won and he defeated Tiger Woods. And I'll tell you, interviewing Tiger Woods, this is pretty scandal. All the rest of it just jacked. Like, that's the biggest takeaway I'm going to be going to scream like, dude, this guy's shoulders were so what you could have like a swimmer like Michael Phelps or like a linebacker. I mean, you could not appreciate just how physically fit that I was at that time. And again, that was not a great masters result for Tiger. He still finished second. It was still a very cool experience to see him at his eight pack. Like I said, there's still that aura about him. Even if he's a shell themselves. Yeah, it could have been a Navy SEAL because he was training with them. And yeah, in the same of shape, I guess. I want to ask you the question we've been asking all our guests today and you as a Toronto man, despite you being a parts elsewhere. Okay, who's been with more? Okay, actually, I have to phrase this correctly because it does change the answer. No, it changes the answer. Okay. So we've had the Austin Matthews, Toronto Maple Leafs, who have had all the promise in the world right out of the get go. He scores four goals and they lose in six games to the president's trophy champions. And we've had this incredible promise of the bow and Vlad Blue Jays starting in 2020 where they make the playoffs in the 60 game season. Who's had more success? Like nobody's had any success. Least one, a postseason round hockey playoffs are very different than making the playoffs in Major League Baseball. Who's been who's had more success understanding that both of both have been insane failures considering what the expectations but like who's had more success over their 10 years. Wow. It's a ludicrous question. As you point out, neither has had success, but that was it also makes it funny and a great question. Well, I'll say Matthews only because the Leafs did win a round. Like there was something to it happen last year in terms of exercising a demon in not getting out of the first round since 2004. I'll give it to them grudgingly. But honestly, as you point out, it's more of the overwhelming disappointment of the bow era and the fact that they should have won a division title by now and it's like in the wild crowd that can't even win that. So yeah, it's more the frustration of the J's who seem to make the playoffs by virtue of the fact there are more play options rather than outright wins. You know, maybe I went to year ago, 91, two years ago. Yeah, I'll go Leafs grudgingly. It's a funny question. We have asked, we just had a hockey analyst on. We don't have someone who, I mean, you work for both networks, but like, we love your work on MLB network. And Ben has yet to get the answer. He wants his side of the argument. I've just been right at every turn. I've heard the side that I want. It's the one that I thought was correct. And then I, I think correctly, also humbly said, I am open to the idea that I'm wrong and most people disagree with why do you have to couch it with being open to the idea? Why can't you just be wrong? Because I'm not because I still think I'm right because there's no definitive way. I mean, you literally sold our producer, take up these numbers for me. And then the numbers came back in the Leafs favor and you're like, okay, no, but they didn't really see that the Blue Jays have had the fourth most wins in the American League since their era started and what the Leafs have been the fourth in the NHL, the National Hockey League, the whole league, not half of it. Okay. All right, sorry that you have to be here for this lovers quarrel, but I feel like you also kind of love it. I mean, the regular season more important in Major League Baseball than the National Hockey. Anyways, never. They both been abject failure. Don't you play Tony Riali giving points out? I don't I don't like that unless I'm getting them to. All right, let's talk about the one failure that's still playing. And the other one wouldn't be viewed as much of a failure if they were still playing, but they're not. But yeah, the one failure that's still playing and still looks like a failure after yesterday's ninth inning meltdown by Jordan Romano, the Toronto Blue Jays and the man leading off George Springer. How do you know when a guy is done done? Because like we had a whole season, a sample of George Springer last year where he wasn't like the worst offensive player in baseball, but he was a league average offensive player for almost the whole like he played a ton of games over 150 games last year at an end. He's carried that over for the first month and a half this season. Like at what point can we just say definitively? Hey, that the old George Springer is not coming back. I think we're at that point now. Quite honestly, I looked at his opps plus again, as you guys know, I think below 100 is below league average is 64. Like he's that that's a third less than the average major league baseball player that that's a drastic drop off or expecting when we sign them. And even if you look at the totality of the contract, you know, when a guy signs for six years at that age, you go, well, at least for career four years, he'll be gangbusters. And for the next two years, or average or below average ball, we can take that. Instead, it's going the other way. Like he's never really got going. There's been flashes of it, but he's been battling injuries and consistency. And this year's just been bad. And I think all the way around, you can say he's never going to be a player that James thought they'd get. Like now, but honestly, you'd accept just a league average player. If it was an opps plus of 100, 105, you go, okay, well, I guess it's what it is. Like when you're hitting around 200, not providing much oomph, it's really frustrating. And it's misleading because you know, he'll play hard. There's this, you know, you watch the highlights, the highlight catch of the year that played right here two weeks ago. So like, you know, at times, he shows flasks of being a fun player and a guy you can root for. But I like George Springer as a guy. I think he's been good for the game, but he's been an abject disappointment, much like the least in the Bluetooth tenure. That is very accurate when it comes to Springer. And, you know, misery does love company. I know Bishan had a couple hits yesterday and looking at his numbers, you know, he's slugging around 300. Like that is that is appalling. I couldn't believe it's one thing to be hitting just above the bendosa line as is Springer over 200. But slugging around 300, that is awful. And Vlad Jr, I know he hasn't been good either, but at least he's been better. He's on base percents around 375. That's pretty good. He hasn't slugged, of course, that's the problem, not enough power. But those three guys have been recovered so far as whether J's are four games under 500. Yeah, Bo and Vlad turning it around a little here, you know, don't have it in front of me. But Vlad, particularly, I mean, up until yesterday, I think there's a near 1000 or over 1000 OPS in the month of May. I mean, what you've got out of him has been has been great this stretch, but you just need to see it consistently. Obviously, with George Springer, his struggles go part and parcel with the fact that he seems tied in the hip or tied at the hip to the lead off spot there. There's been something Ben and I have been kind of wondering about this morning, the idea of, you know, John Schneider managing the team his way versus managing the team, maybe the front office sees when John Schneider, you know, and I don't expect him to get fired anytime soon. But if he were to have another managerial interview at some point in time in his life, do you think he's going in there and explaining to the front office, Hey, look, I can put your plan in place because so much of what we see is how can a baseball person that has the experience John Schneider has continue to see Springer struggling the way he is and continuing to roll him out in the lead off spot. And I look at it as nothing other than kind of self preservation, him saying one, I would imagine the bosses are on board with it or he wouldn't continue to stick him in there. And two, he can now, when he has an exit interview, if he gets an exit interview, say, look, I can play ball, I can be, I can install the plan you want, how much of managing today, I mean, this is the question we've been having for four or five years now, how much of managing today is still playing a hunch, putting the lineup you like versus being able to sell to your next job. Hey, here's the plan that my bosses wanted put in place. And I was able to do that. Yeah, I think it's, you know, it's part and parcel of that you're right, Brad. Like I think first off, it's your first part, the front office definitely knows what he's doing, right? You couldn't make those kinds of decisions without having their input. Now, it is anemic. I mean, I looked at the J's, they have the worst on base presidential leadoff spot in major league baseball. So it's your point. It's not like that. It's been a little bit badly though. It's, it's awful. And at some point, you know, you think it makes it up a little bit. We've come so far in baseball from thinking a leadoff hitter has to be Vince Coleman, like now it can be Kyle Schoever, it's not a big deal. But to have a situation like this where it hasn't improved, it's pretty surprising. And I think your population is looking at self-preservation. Like when they won the first game of that series against Baltimore, that was one of his first thoughts. Okay, this is a big, you know, blanking win because he knows that the pressure he's under. He knows that everyone's saying he's the first manager that's going to get fired. So it's definitely, I think, a tough situation right now for him and certainly for the Blue Jays because you can't win games and no one's getting off the leadoff spot. Yeah, it's an important spot. It's the guy that gets the most played appearances and not to say that George Springer needs to be benched or anything. But yeah, probably hitting him at the very tippy top of the lineup. That's the second worst in baseball when it comes to runs, probably probably not ideal, not ideal when you get your your clothes are not getting it out the way Jordan Romano did. But you know what he pitched two innings in the the first win and the only win in that two game series on Monday against the Orioles. It was his first blown save of the season. He's been one of like, I know people it's hard to believe, but like been one of the more reliable closers since he took over the job here in Toronto. And it's not a surprise to me to see Bob Nightingale's report that the Orioles are targeting him if there's a potential sell off happening for the Blue Jays. How do you feel about dealing within your division and specifically with your closer and a potential move for Romano to Baltimore? Not crazy about it, especially if you think that your team is a contender. Like eventually, you do have to accept the fact that your team is not going to be a team that you thought they would be. So in the case of Blue Jays, and eventually you go, Hey, man, we're under 500 things have not worked out. You do have to start to deal some assets. So I understand that thought process. But to do them to a division contender who could haunt you for one or one hundred years, I just never liked that thought process. Now Romano has been great and you're right. He's definitely an underrated closer and has been successful for a long time. I could see the Orioles giving up a good haul because Campbell has not worked out. They thought he would, you know, you know, you know, he knows a good player that could be a closer, but I still understand Bob's point why Baltimore would be interested. But if I was Toronto, I would be skittish. Now, again, having said that if ball court is the ones that give you the best offer and they've got a rich farm system, I understand the thought process, but generally as a rule, I don't subscribe to that. I'd find another great deal elsewhere. Yeah, I think I'm kind of of two minds of it. I completely understand what you're saying. But then Ben, you know, he very smartly alerted me to this. It's a bit of an under the radar thing in baseball, the Orioles farm system. She loaded. So if you're going to go, you know, grabbing somebody's somebody's best prospects, it's as good a place to raid as any. And you know, I think I think the only reason I'd maybe feel differently about it with a closer is opposed to somebody like even a position player as opposed to a starter is just. And I don't say this to say that I think Jordan Romano is going to fall off a cliff or anything like that. But there is just such a, you know, a wishy, washy nature to relievers in general and not to say that Romano has been that he's got a pretty good track record. But it's just even the guys with great track records can only do it for so long. And I do think that's why I feel a little differently about it with it being a closer as opposed to if you were, you know, not that we're here yet, but if you were moving on from like a bow or a Vlad and not that that's what the Orioles need. But do you do you subscribe to that at all that with it being a closer? There's just a an understanding that even the best guys can only do that for a handful of years. Yeah, that's a fair point, Brad. Like obviously, as you said, it's a position plan, like for years after you have to look out to shortstop and people to shatter first base and see glad you heard it. That was just it was just killing you as a team and as a franchise. So yeah, closures and bullpen by their very nature are generally volatile and unpredictable. But Romano has been consistently great. So you're right. Maybe he goes for Baltimore and whatever is the duration of his contract ends up going elsewhere. But he's been legitimately great. So I wouldn't, I don't think he's that guy that falls off the cliff. I think he's been really good for a while. And again, you're right, closer can be unpredictable. But he's a stud man. Like he's, I think if he was in other markets, more people would talk about effective. He's been and like Ben said, that home run yesterday. I mean, when Rushman barely gets it out, he's been so good this year. It wasn't like he got tagged badly. So it was, it was definitely a disappointing outcome for the J's and they need these wins right now, man. It's tough. It's not ideal, but they have two series against the White Sox upcoming before the end of the month. If that doesn't cure what ails them, then nothing will. So before they go, I think now people have been so conditioned with the baseball savant stuff that you acquire a player or you're like interested in your franchise is like targeting somebody in trade or a free agent. That's like the first place you go to and you look at the little graphs, right? And you say, Oh, is that red? Is it blue? And that's the way I think people view the individual performances, like what the expected stats are. Where do you think do you think swing speed is going to be become a part of the conversation? Because it's now publicly available. I've been obsessing over looking at that stuff. We don't have the sample of previous seasons. So I mean, that'll impact it. If like we could see the George Springer, he's lost like a five miles an hour off his swing speed. Obviously that would that would be a pretty good indicator for us. Like, where are you on the swing speed stuff? I think it's pretty cool. I'm with you, Ben, because I often think about like if a guy is late on a heater, well, like, you know, it's just his bat speed. And especially with age, as you see with a guy like Springer 30 plus, you go, well, it's, you know, over eight, there's a declining bat speed, his skills have deteriorated, et cetera. And if I look at the guys who are great at bat speed, unsurprisingly, it's someone like one meal cruise, a young whipper snapper is like second right now. So I'm with you, man. I'm all for data and more information. And like, actually if you live find interesting, there's not something I cling to unless it's like outrage, it's like when standing at a ball 120 miles per exit, you're like, that's insane, because there was like a single it wasn't like a home run. It's like, that's how hard he is. And by theory, the harder you hit the better you will do. But then like, Luis arises the lowest in the exit field. And I give it this guy, like he's like, Tony Gwynn just flicks it all over the place. And he's been successful right now for the Padres bat speed. I'm with you. I'm at least interested to take a look at it and intrigued by it. Because again, I was got great, I go and take a Stephen Kwan as great bat speed, right? He's got low exit, be a little bit of high bat speed, how I can arise. I got an next project. I would imagine Trey Turner has great bat speed. I'm curious about someone like Bryce Harper, because he can be a slugger. So he hits the ball deeper. So I think he doesn't have a spirit of bat speed. But again, he is hitting the ball deep. So he doesn't have a good bat speed. So I'm with you. I'm curious to learn for data. And I think, listen, every single measure that you get in baseball to help will be helpful. And I'm sure the front office will look at it. And I'm glad we can look at it. Like I think for years, if someone said analytics, you didn't know what that meant. You're like, but I don't, but I want to see the stuff that they see. Now I can see what they see. Now I can get it. Now we're kind of all the same page. So it's helpful. And I think it's for an office, you should be happy because in the past, it might have been more dissonance to all fans to understand they don't have the data we do. Now we all do. We can all look at it together. So it's helpful. I can't wait for them to finally release whatever information they're using to continue to hit George Springer lead off. Like, what is that? What is that analytic? Like, I'd love to see it. Like, let us know. Oh, wait, there isn't one. Yeah, no, I figured. Adnan, always a pleasure. Thanks, buddy. And I just want you to see that in your best time felt impression. George Springer, buddy, lead off. What is the deal with that is the deal. Yeah, it's it's a bad deal. It's not it's not a good deal. See you, buddy. Thanks, boy. Take care. You too. Adnan Burke, MLB network and the cinephile podcast. Yeah, I don't think there's a number that's going to tell me that, hey, George Springer's underrated. You want to know what it is? What? I just looked in the whites of his eyes. Yeah, that's that's it. That's like that. That's the closest you're getting to something scientific out of that. The thing that is the white whale when it comes to publicly available baseball information is the thing that they kept making the decisions on David Schneider not playing the swing path, guys. Like, you know, you think you know, and you think you can judge a player by like the results. That's why I know the path of the swing. Hello. Yeah, no, I'd love to see that too. Honestly, I feel like this might shock you a little of what I took out of that. Adnan mentioning Tony Gwynn. That is like my white whale. And obviously we can truly never get it, but like I would kill to see this for greats of the game. Oh my God. What was what was chief so some of wire bat speed looking like what did what did Sammy so says bat with the bat speed with the cork bat looked like like all honestly, those are the things. And maybe it's just like you can never care as much as you did when you're 11 or whatever it is. But it's like I have so many of these touchstone moments from early on like Josh Hamilton in the home run derby when he was just sending balls to the moon for seemingly six hours. How much did the bat speed drop off when he was getting tired during that? Like they're just all these kind of touchstone moments in the sport that I would love to be able to go back and get it for 100% and this is I mean to me that's the more intriguing thing is going forward. Now it's like one thing to take a snapshot of this moment in time and like we can try and figure out what it means considering hey John Carlos Hatton way out there on the far end as far as the fastest swing in Major League Baseball. But what does it mean that Luis arises way out there on the other end? Yeah, and he's awesome. I know. Um before we go. Tigard. I mean he made a nice putt for bogey on two. He just hit it like way left on three. What if you're burying the lead? What a McElroy birdie on one post divorce. Let's go. And it wasn't the par five. That's one who's standing teeed off. Okay. It's not nothing. Yeah. No good for him. Um and we'll see if he keeps it up. Tiger made the cut at Augusta and then finished dead last. Yeah. So it's who knows? Maybe he's good. Maybe makes the cut at the PGA. And then almost whatever happens after that. Yup. It's gravy. But like what if he's like continued? That was embarrassing for Tigard despite the fact that he made the cut at Augusta finishing dead last. It's like that's dead last. Just great. I mean he made the cut so fictionally not dead last or factually not. Okay. All right. Not fictionally. Yeah. Tiger in the least baby. Don't give me a don't give me a little sliver of excuse making. I just wonder if there doesn't come a point where he's like yes the ID. I'm not doing this no more. All right. We keep thinking it'll happen and seemingly it never will. So we'll see. We'll talk about the first round of action tomorrow on another edition will of the fan morning show. Ben and his Brent Gunning Sportsnet 5.9 the fan. Good morning.
