[MUSIC] Fan morning shows 4.5.9 in the fan bed at his brain gutting. At times, Blue Jays outplayed all memorials. >> True, good morning, good morning. >> Not in the bottom of the night, yesterday's Blue Jays split what was supposed to be a three-game series ends up being a two-game series because of the brain out. The Orioles continued their longest streak in baseball of not being swept, like over a hundred series, which is stupid. >> Not. >> They're quite good. The Blue Jays continued to not hit and they head into an off day. Still four games under 500. Good morning to you, Brent. >> Yeah, why are you just sitting around waiting for 12 runs every day? >> Yeah, that's- >> Why are you doing that? >> I'm not. I want to be clear. I don't know who's doing that. I'd like to talk to them not about baseball, but about life. How optimistic can a person be if you're just sitting around waiting for that offense to score 12 runs? >> Yeah, no, they haven't done that this year. They score two and they almost beat the Baltimore freaking Orioles. >> Yeah. >> Got to say, handshake, well done, coming very close, three outs away from beating the Baltimore Orioles. And that lauded offense with only two runs in the baseball game. Good job pitching. >> Wow, victory. >> Well, you know, it's weird, you don't want to compare sports here. Because baseball is not a try harder sport. Don't do it. >> No, try less. >> You should try easier. >> It's the Paul Rudd and I love you, man, forgetting Sarah Marshall. >> No, do less. >> Do less. >> Okay, you got to do something, but less than that. >> Right. >> The pressure on yourself is like, you're probably not a good idea. It's like golf. >> Yeah. >> It's like, man, I got to play well here. You play your worst, right? >> Yes. >> You don't want to do that. But it is funny that in this city, there seems to be a homogeneity of post game comment from the guy in charge whether it be the manager, John Schneider, or the head coach in Sheldon Keith that like, everything's fine here. It's like, we're so close and, man, we're doing our darned as you got to tip your cap to the other guys. >> Mm-hm. >> Again, I understand it more in baseball. Got to say that coming off this leaf season, I think people, it's running a little hollow with sports fans in this city. >> Boy, is it? >> Yeah, I certainly understand you're right to make the point of you get a little less angry about it in baseball because that actually is the mentality you want people to take. I don't know, not that the Leafs have like, you know, a whole trophy case of post season success, but I have like slightly more time for it for the team that actually does have the body of work of, hey, over the regular season, we are one of the best, I don't know, eight, nine teams in the NHL over, and like, don't take that to me, and that's where you want to be. But like, I look at this Blue Jays team and over this Vladimbo era, they haven't been, you know, we haven't spent every regular season talking about them as though they are right there and do need a move or two, like I think that that's tough. >> Well. >> What are you talking about? They made the playoffs three of the last four years. >> Everybody makes the playoffs. That doesn't matter. Which one is it? >> We can joke about that, but that's not true. The Yankees didn't make the playoffs. Red Sox didn't make the playoffs. Lots of good teams, the Mets didn't make the playoffs. They have been in the playoffs. >> I guess maybe to put a more fine of a point on it is I have more mileage for that for a team who also has accomplished nothing, but there nothing is more something in the Leafs than there. >> I did agree. Like I did. >> I think it's literally scored one run. >> Yeah. >> Literally one run. >> Yeah. >> Literally can't win a game. >> Sure. I mean, they make, I think making the playoffs in baseball is a thousand times more difficult. Well, it's easier than it has been in the past. It's a thousand times more difficult than making the playoffs in the National Hockey League. >> Yeah. >> I mean, we are comparing out. >> Okay. >> You hear, you asked me, you said that one part of it offended you. I said different part of it offended me and then you said defend your offense. That's what happened. That is just like I'm giving you the timeline how we ended up here five minutes in the show. >> I will give you an opportunity to talk about how it's not so bad for the Leafs and how like, you know, injuries are a big part of them losing in game seven over time. But I don't know if I could sit back idly by and say that like the body of work is like obviously much better for the Toronto Maple Leafs than the Toronto Blue Jays over the last half decade. >> I think it is. But we don't. >> Really? Yeah. I mean, maybe I'm maybe this is too much me in my own bubble like maybe maybe the perception you have is the prevailing one. I don't see that. >> I see a Blue Jays team that even in the years they make the playoffs, they're scratching and clawing towards the very tail end and it's meaningful games and so like the blue Jay or the Leafs on the other hand, we have fake crisis of confidence of will they make the playoffs knowing they will every single year like again, don't take this as a defensive things are going great in Leafland. It's just that there's slightly, I was about to say more sun, but again, that's too optimistic. There's just less shade on that side of the street than there is with the Blue Jays for me. And again, this is this is two teams that haven't accomplished anything. So don't take this as some, you know, raving defense of everything the Leafs have done in this era. It's more just whatever little you think the Leafs have done, it's more than what the Jay's have. >> Yeah, I disagree again. >> Okay. >> I think you're wrong. >> Yeah. You know, maybe we should throw a poll out there. Again, I don't think the Blue Jays have had this incredible run, obviously, right? Like, hey, in 2015 and 16, they didn't win a World Series. They're made a World Series, right? They won a couple of rounds, okay? They won a round. They made it to an American League championship, not even game seven of an American League championship series, right? And in the case of the 2016 run, like disappointing exit to Cleveland. But I mean, did you view that as an abject failure? >> No, no, no. Let me be clear. I'm putting the like 15 and 16 I am not including in this run of conversation. I'm looking at it as the Vlad bow, whatever you want to count that as. But yeah, that's like 15, 16 is like another franchise or importer line, like it's a completely different group of guys and that a very, very different conversation for me. But yeah, when I put it to just the bow and Vlad era, I feel very differently about it than you would think. >> Yeah. They have not won a postseason game. They have finished with 90 wins in two of the last three years and made the playoffs in the one year that they didn't finish with 90 wins. And the Blue Jays say that's like a fair equivalent to like 100 points season for a team in the NHL. Okay. >> Yeah, I would. But that's yeah, 100 points in making the playoffs. Again, look at some of the teams that have gone into seasons thinking that we're gonna make the playoffs, most notably the New York Yankees last season and didn't. Anyways, let's get back to the microforsack. >> Sure. Yeah. >> They lose that game three, two, on a walk-off home run by Adley Rochman, who by the way has the highest OPS against the Blue Jays than any other team he has against them. And he's got more opportunities because they're into division, but yeah, he's a Blue Jays murderer and he feels like this generation's Derek Jeter. We can talk about Jordan Romano and he obviously wasn't good, didn't get an out give up the walk-off shot. But the clear discussion point out of this thing is once again, Blue Jays can't hit. And this was after they knocked Kyle Braddish out of the game after four innings. They had one hit the rest of the way. They got into the Orioles bullpen, which is like not good. >> Nope. I'm going to get to see their best reliever who they mashed, you near cano. >> Yeah. >> That's not the strength of the Orioles. The Orioles, quite notably in recent days, have been linked to reliever after reliever. >> Jordan Romano. >> Including Jordan Romano, who like maybe they're changing their opinion on after taking him yard yesterday, but that's not- >> They're trying to dig the trade value. They're like, if we beat him up, we can ask for a, or we can offer a little less. That is not the 2015 Kansas City Royals over there. That's the 2024 Baltimore Orioles. And they had to get five innings of relief work to shut down the Blue Jays. They did that, no problem. One hit the rest of the way, Blue Jays, two for 13 with runners in scoring position. That being said, the Orioles were all for 10, but they hit two homers. It just blows me away, and again, it's May, and it's almost Victoria Day. But it's May 16th, does John Schneider know about Queen Victoria? >> He better, because quite notably, Charlie Montoya didn't, and didn't play Vladimir Guerrero Jr. >> Oh, my God. >> On a home game. >> Still some of my favorite messaging. >> It's May. Okay? >> Yeah. >> And it's, he's not frittering away, and look at the upcoming schedule. There's some winnable games there, but certainly. There are four games under 500. They have the second fewest homers, or sorry, second fewest runs in all of baseball, fourth fewest homers, and nothing drastic has happened here. Like we're still talking about George Springer, and whether or not he should be leading off. Like, you shouldn't be playing anybody that leans towards defense instead of offense. You should be every single day. You look at your available options, and you think about your possible lineup permutations, and you make every decision based on what scores is the most runs. Not like, hey man, we got a ground ball pitcher on the mound, we got Chris Bassett, and look at the spray chart of ground balls here, and boy, we'd love to get David Schneider in the lineup. We can't fit, and we're beyond that because David Schneider plays every day, but, well, you know, we gotta make sure we limit, and the damage, forget it. Every decision you make going forward, I mean, this should be happening not tomorrow. But like, it should have been happening a week ago if not more. Every decision you make should be about improving your offense. So what do I mean by that? Because this, I don't want this to be like a trade Mitch Marner, and it's like, well, for what? >> Right. I want to give you. >> Please. I have the, this will shock you for a show with your name on it that you lead every day. The floor is yours. >> Okay. So, what does that mean? >> I mean, first step, we almost don't even need to talk about it because we're talking about plenty, but like George bring out of the lead-off spot. >> Yes. >> Like obviously. >> So put that aside. >> The North Star of our show. >> That's like, put that aside. >> Yeah. >> Put that over there. Like obviously. >> Obviously. >> How about like Kevin Kiermaier, the fourth outfielder? Okay. How about Daniel Vogelbach looking a lot like Daniel Vogelbach? So, hey, guess what, Daniel Vogelbach being Daniel Vogelbach means Daniel Vogelbach should get the Daniel Vogelbach treatment. Which this team has already done, by the way, in his brief tenure a couple of years ago, DFA. And, okay, Addison Barger wasn't amazing in his five games. I get five games, and swing speed data isn't everything, but he had the second fastest swing by any Blue Jays player this year. Call him up. Don't call him up. Call Spencer Horowitz up. Don't call him up. Call up Relevis Martinez. Do something. Never, never, never, never, never, never, never, maybe sometimes. Never, never, never play Ernie Clemente and Isaiah Kaderfilefe in the same lineup at the same time. Like, that's, it's like, cannot happen. Won't be happening. Just jam as many good offensive players as you think you've got, which who might only be three or four at the very tippy top of the lineup. So whether that's, because Bo is obviously going now, right? That's Bo. That's Vlad. Mavis Schneider, that's Danny Jansen, and then maybe it's Justin Turner, who's, by the way, cooled off pretty significantly. He got an OBS just north of 400. All those guys in the top five of the lineup, everybody else at the bottom half of the lineup, nobody who is known for anything outside of their bat gets to play or gets the priority to play. What are we doing here? Like, it's May, but, and I know you don't want to freak anybody out. You don't want to look like you're panicking. You should be panicking. It's a panic time. Let me, let me preface this with good job. Well done by you. I agree with almost all of that, but I think if you're, I think the, I think you kind of hit the reason why at the tail end there is that what are those guys truly changing? That cannot get worse and it has to get better. So I'm with you. The idea of just continuing to bang your head against the wall with the Daniel Vogelbox of the world. Or like you said, you know, having bigger and IKF in the lineup on the same day. They're just bringing it lead off. I agree with you, change all of those things. But I think the most likely course of action, and don't say that to me, what is going to happen. But even if they go out and play that route, I think what's more likely going to happen is they find themselves on the losing side of games because those guys don't tip the ledger enough offensively and then you do get away from the identity that ain't good enough to win you any games right now. But what the best course of action is for this team is not to go try to win games, even five, four unfortunately, but like score three or four runs. And that's why I prefaced all of that with, I agree with you. You need to try all this. I just think even, even me who agrees with you, try all this. It's more likely than not that at the end of a month, two months of having tried that, the offense is still sputtering in a big way, and you tried something, but we're also looking at the right now, we're looking at the four or five games where you talk about the no hits and the four, but it's four or five games a week. I think what's going to happen is there are going to be the three or four kind of flash point moments where big air costs you here. You don't have the defense you want. And again, that all goes to say you should try something, but I think that this all goes back to the sins of the way this roster was kind of constructed from the outset heading into the season. Again, it feels like where this is like well trod ground in this city when it comes to our sports teams. Like well, it's the definition of insanity, it's just doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results. It's like, okay, is it quite possible that breaking up the Maple Leafs first power play unit into two, like is not going to yield positive results? Is like logically, does it make the most sense to keep all your high priced, very good offensive talent in one five man power play unit? Of course. But like, has it worked? No, of course. So like, maybe would you like to try something else? Yeah. Like how, how, how much runway do you need? And eventually, like you get to the end of the line, you're like, oh man, geez, it really didn't work out. Maybe we should have thought about like for a second, trying something different. That's different. That's a postseason series where you have like a shorter runway than the six month regular season that is Major League Baseball and so many baseball conversations and takes will seem so stupid by the end of September. I get it, but I don't know. What have we seen here through almost 50 games to give you the belief that the way this lineup is currently constructed is going to work? I just, I don't see it. The Springer thing would be the thing that that feels like the straw that would break the camel's back. Like once George Springer is moved out of the lead off spot and not to like the bow thing because bow hit what fifth and then he was hitting fourth the next day and then immediately it must be noted. Go like went back to being bow. It's last year. Well, 2022. Yeah. Where he got bumped, but that hitting fifth and fourth is different than hitting seventh. That's where he was bumped down to in 2022. I guess what I'm talking about with George Springer again. Like I don't want to take the bat at a George Springer's hands. I really don't like even if he's a league average player playing that defense in right field. There's no obvious replacement form, although like God, and we've seen this guy at the major league level. Nathan Lucas had a six hit game yesterday for the bison's like there's some bison players that are putting up ridiculous offensive numbers. I know the offensive environment and triple A is cuckoo bananas, but that you just continue to sit around and say, well, one of these days, one of these days, you know, George Springer is going to reverse the aging curve and he's going to look like a world series MVP one of these days. Well, I think the, I think the problem with that is that, and again, I, let me preface all this with, I agree with you. That's the course of action I would take. I just think it becomes such a point of demarcation for, okay, if that doesn't work, then we are in sell off mode. Like if you bring up and it's not, it's not that I'm about to under this sentence. Like if you bring up Horowitz and Barger and the guys you just mentioned and that doesn't save the offense, then you are in a pivot mode, but that is where you're going to kind of be. And I just think that from a, from a human perspective, I imagine Atkins, Shapiro, throw Schneider into the mix, not that he's having as much to say in those conversations, but they're not ready to look that, look down the barrel of that yet. The idea that, oh, okay, if that doesn't work, then we're in full sell off mode. But that to me is one of the biggest reasons why that hasn't happened, hasn't happened yet or why they'd be hesitant to. Well, because if they, if they, they try and, and throw somebody else into the lineup or they move George, bring her out of the lead off spot, then it's, it's over for reals. Yeah, kind of. To a certain extent. I mean, I think, I think this next stretch of games will give you an indication as to whether it's over for reals. And I'll be on the record. I, I think it is just, I'll, I'll stay in. Okay. You got a raised team that you already played this season, you split a series at the beginning of the year. Or was that a three game series? Anyways, the one game, one of the season, they scored a bunch of runs. We're like, oh, is that a different team than they didn't, the rest of that to it. Yeah. Yeah. They went four and six on that road trip start the year, but they're 23rd in baseball and ERA, which is, is weird to think about Tampa Bay Rays team being that that team can't pitch. Then after that, and they got the worst team in the American League of the White Sox and one of the worst teams in all of baseball. He had two series against the White Sox sandwich, but between them is a series against a Tigers team that is a very mediocre. So that stretch will end the end of the month, May 29th, May 29th. Okay. Your four games under 500. I mean, you can look at beating the good teams as your indicator as to whether this team is good enough. Like I think pretty clearly this team isn't going to be good enough. There was no, there was no scenario where it was like, well, here we go. World Series contender, I don't think, but my God, you can't hit and you don't get yourself at least two 500, if not above 500 over that stretch of games. I mean, it's June, like there's no more of it. I mean, I'm saying it's not early now, but like June, we're talking about June, right? And this team's still not hitting. At that point, it doesn't matter who's in the line of, because there's a line of, first of all, Ross Atkins told us explicitly, none of it matters except for Bowen Vlad at the beginning of the season. It's like, yeah, we didn't acquire guys, but hey, bank it on the core. That's two guys who have come around recently, but aren't hitting home runs. If we get to the end of this month in this upcoming stretch, and you still haven't won hit and to put some W's on the board, yeah, there is, I don't know what the comeback will be. I think that's it then. I don't know that they would state it so nakedly, but I will. Here it is. That stretch of teams, even you, future J's offense, can you make some semblance of hay against this group? And if you can't, then I do wonder if that's the point of demarcation and the pivot and to your point, maybe it is too late at that point. But I think they're, again, don't far be it for me to defend the J's front office, but they also think they're a little bit right to look at like Spencer Horowitz and be like, yeah, that's not changing the world here. Doesn't mean don't try it, but I can also see them looking at this pewchard stretch ahead of the team in terms of schedule and say, okay, let's give this group. If they can't do it against this group, they're never going to do it. And I do wonder if it's as simple as that, they just have this stretch ahead of them. There is no point in making changes until the team kind of decides for you in this stretch here. Which I do disagree with, I think you should, especially if you think you have guys that can come up and hit, put them in a good environment to hit early on against these bad teams. But yeah, I think that's probably the thought process here. >> I generally agree that one player does not a season turnaround make or does not change your fortunes, right? Like one prospect who's not really even a prospect, Dorelvis Martinez, actually, I think Addison Barger is also in the MLB pipeline top 100 prospects, but the Spencer Horowitz is not there. Spencer Horowitz could easily just be, they call an org guy, which is like, yeah, he's in your system forever. Maybe he impacts the major leagues ever so briefly, but the option I'm back and forth, he's going to maybe have a major league career, but might not be kind of like a fringy major lager. I don't think that type of guy is generally going to change your fortunes to some insane degree. But I will say that we do have proof of concept with this thing. >> The baby. >> And like, yeah, yeah, and I mean, he had the best start anyone has ever had in major league baseball history. There's a reason why people called him babe, because it was like, yeah, he looked like Babe Ruth for a while. And he allowed Blue Jays to sweep a series at Fenway Park against the Red Sox team. They struggled to beat in the first half of the season. And that team felt a lot different when he arrived. Now that was in August, okay? And that team was already over 500 and they were still like playoff worthy at that point, but it's just at a certain point, man, how much do you need to see? The other thing is, okay, so again, I've already done the like comparing John Schneider to Sheldon Keith thing once. I'm amazed that these two guys like Sheldon Keith knew more than John Schneider knows, but John Schneider must know that if this goes poorly, you're done, so finish. >> Yep. >> And in the case of John Schneider, there's like good evidence to support that you might not get another kick of the can, like multitude of former Blue Jays managers, including guys that have had success. John Schneider, well, Cito Gaston, never got another opportunity to manage at the Major League level. John Gibbons never got another chance to manage at the Major League level. Charlie Montoya still hasn't gotten a chance to manage again at a Major League level, would anyone bank on that? Probably not. Like John Schneider, it's quite possible that if he gets fired from this position, is not going to get another opportunity to manage at the Major League level. And then Sheldon Keith, Sheldon Keith knew and knows that he's going to get another job. I think the devil's like, feel like they're hot to trot for Sheldon Keith. Anyways, but going down the stretch, and for Sheldon Keith, it was the decision to not make a drastic move in the postseason, that you wouldn't use that as more motivation to do something insane, to do something against the norm, to do something drastic, to do something panicky, I guess, like panicky, like that's like a pejorative, right? Yeah, no. You act like you're panicking? No. I mean, when you're down 3-1 in a postseason series, like you probably want to panic. When your four games under 500, and you have the second worst offense in all the baseball, only ahead of one of the worst teams historically, I think we've ever seen in the Chicago White Sox, I think it's time to panic. And also just like personally, again, you can tell me that John Schneider's not making all the decisions. Sure. Yeah, like ultimately, he has final say on something, right? And again, even if he doesn't, and like I said, he's going to be fired either way, you would think he would go down guns ablazing. This is insane that we're now middle of May, and what is now a sample of more than a full calendar year with George Springer, that we haven't even seen George Springer moved out of the lead-off spot here with the second worst offense in all the baseball. Cultural problem with the sport, not a John Schneider issue. I don't disagree that at a certain point, you do want the guy to say, man, screw this. I'm going down with the lineup that I want, although again, to the first 20 minutes of the show that we've been talking about here, I don't know that there's a lineup that he puts together with the group of guys he has at his disposal that he feels great about. But I think it goes back to when John Schneider goes to interview for his next managerial job, if he hopes to have one, this is going to come up. These are going to be part of the questions, and this is what baseball front offices want. They want a guy who's going to play ball. It's pretty easy the way that Schneider's getting thrown under the bus by this management group by, hey, he's making the decisions. We saw everything that happened with burios last year. He's going to do the exact same things, and all these interviews are going, ma'am. Org had given X much dollars to him. He was somebody that wanted a bad lead-off, keeping him happy was important for Club Host Yadda, yadda, yadda, I think that he is doing this in self-not preservation mode. Because again, I don't know that there's any strings he can pull with this roster that gets himself to the ultimate kind of job-saving status here. But I think that this is incomplete. I can explain this. It's the opposite of Moneyball. It's, you know, Philip Seymour Hoffman gets to go into the office and say I did exactly, I did exactly what the Dorks upstairs told me to do, and the khakis they weighed in as well. And they go, oh, God, you did? Well, they're so good that I would like to appeal directly to John Schneider. Okay. All right. For the second time this morning, the floor is yours. Okay, John. If you think that you're going to get me fired from the Blue Jays and God, I don't know. Well, what's the next managerial opening? Wherever it is. Vegas. Sure. Great. And they're going to ask you, hey, hey, John, like, you watched the 20, 23 season, you also looked at the birth certificate and you looked at the underlying stats and you saw what George Springer was providing and you for the first two months of the season still gave George Springer the most played appearances on your team. Why'd you do that? Well, they told me to like they they said, I should probably do that. And also like hit the fields like 24 million bucks wasn't enough to paper over the fields. I've also wanted him in the exact perfect spot that he wanted to be. Right. Okay. If it's me making the hiring decision, what do you want to manager versus what a general manager of a bait or a president of a baseball team wants and a manager aren't. Isn't it fair to say that those are very different things? I think I want, okay, I don't want some guy to go completely rogue. No, I don't. I don't want a guy rolling rolling the dice going, whoo, sixes came up. I like I like this guy in the two holes tonight. Like you're right. I don't want I don't want that. I mean, do you think there were numbers to suggest you think that came from on high that John Schneider moved Boba Shett out of the top four position in 2022? Remember that was like early days of his tenure. It was a great point to bring up. Yeah, he was. Okay, so Charlie Montoya was fired before the All-Star break in 2022. They were swept in that series in Seattle, it takes over a couple of games before the All-Star break and then immediately following the All-Star break, it's Boba Shett down to seven. Yeah. Do you think somebody was in his ears like, hey, man, you know, the like future of our franchise and one of the two headed monsters that's going to either make or break us in this generation, like how about you and like a guy who does not have the equity of being a World Series MVP, somebody who can't just like put a tape in to like if we still had VHS machines couldn't like slam the tape into the machine and like replay all my big moments in the World Series, but he's like a young kid who's like still trying to establish himself, bump him down to seven. See how that feels. Or do you think that was like John Schneider saying like, hey, we got to win a baseball game? I that's man. That's interesting. I think I think there's a couple of things. I think that when the hire of Schneider was made, there was a lot of talk about getting a more uncomfortable voice in there. And I think that it, but this is a guy that would have been empowered by the front office to have done that. Do you think he did that without running it by man? You just made my point. Okay. But the same, but if the front office empowering him to do that at a certain point in time, and I also think that there is, there is a very different conversation, you know, heaven forbid we have a conversation about any team in this city and there not be a leaf parallel to it. The difference of benching Mitch Marner and benching William knee lander. One of those guys says, yeah, I need it to get me going. I don't always need the carrot. Give me the stick once in a while. And one of those guys throws their gloves on the bench and breaks the stick when he misses a power. Like, I think, you know, who's who in the Blue Jays club host? This has nothing to do with motivating though. This is just like, I am sorry, like, Hey, you hit, you get back to the top of the lineup. This is, this is scoreboard like this is, and again, to the point that you, you made that was in my favor. Do you think like Charlotte Montoya was getting different instructions? Who's like, you know what, I don't think don't move these guys. I don't think they said get in there and rattle cages, Charlie. I don't think you hire a guy who's again, it's not about rattling cages. It's just like putting forth the best lineup that you think gives you the best chance to win every day. I, I don't know how you can look at that move, especially with Beshette. And now, again, it's that we have the, the fact that this has happened second time with him. I do think it's a bit, it has about rattling cages. And I think with the other guy in Springer, it's about the exact opposite. Like how is, if he's brought in to be your veteran leader, clubhouse guy, how good a version of that. And don't take this as my blind defense of keep George Springer in the lead off spot. I agree with you. I'm just trying to paint the picture of the reasons why it hasn't happened and to sit there and put it all on John Schneider. And I don't even know that that's necessarily what you're doing here. But I am, okay, you're putting it all on Schneider's on John Schneider. The lineup is your, like that's you, whether it is or it isn't, John Schneider, unless the picture is in the fourth inning of a, of a playoff game, and then maybe the lineup's not his. No, it's still different. No, that's still him. Hey, Ross Atkins says that's him. Okay. Right? Ross Atkins says that's him. You believe him? He's a liar. Are you calling him a liar? I'm, I'm saying that I think people can misremember conversations in a very different way where maybe they hinted something and when your boss hints at something, it's very different than a hint. There are like, so there are three things major like manager is most responsible for. Yeah. But one of them considering that there's universal DH is like kind of irrelevant, right? Like the in-game strategy, double switches. And like, especially this team, like George Springer steals some bases. They don't hit and run and they don't bond and, you know, it's like, yeah, and there's like, there's some pinch hitting decisions that he's responsible for. But yeah, there's not a lot of in-game strategy. It's putting the lineup together and it's your bullpen utilization, neither of which I've been to all that impressed with. But like the thing that is the biggest problem with this team is the offense and that we're not looking at some ginormous shake-up of one of the few tools at your disposal, one playing time and two, where in the order of these guys hit? I guess I nuts. I guess what I nuts. I don't disagree. And it's so nuts to me, I would believe that one person who feel how you feel about John Schneider, but I think I think even he is seeing all the same things. And I don't think he's sitting there on his hands willfully going, oh, this will surely figure itself out. I imagine there's more at this. And I also imagine that there is an element of, again, I go back to the like moneyball conversation with was art, how was the characters, they have characters, a real man of, I'm going to want to explain this in my next job interview. And it's just a complete 180 of what the manager is supposed to explain in their job interview. I firmly, I just firmly believe that in 2024 as opposed to whenever that movie was set. Like, so what is the argument he's either receiving from up top or that he believes is the correct argument that he's making that George Springer should leave. Great question, great question. But I refuse to believe that Schneider is so stubborn and stuck in his way is that he just goes, no, no, no, no. This is the ship I'm going down with. I have such belief in George. This is the guy I just, it's so obvious. I'm going to presume something else is a play, I guess is finally where I land. I mean, George Springer is wearing this as the avatar for all of this and it's because it's the most obvious place to move. But like, yeah, again, something drastic, anything drastic, like it was something like again, surprise call up as some barter gates called up because Kevin Kiermaier hits the D the IL, it would be something to, yeah, DFA, Daniel Vogelbach was, that was obviously like a likely scenario, the way this is going to play out feels like now is as good a time as any church. That trigger, yep, because it's Daniel Vogelbach again and calling somebody up and throwing them in the lineup and playing them in left field and benching Kevin Kiermaier, who is not George Springer. Like George Springer's got two, two more years left at 24 million, Kevin Kiermaier banking on him doing what he did offensively last season, probably a mistake. And he's still service purpose, even when he was going great with Tampa, he didn't play every day. No. Like that's not an everyday play, you don't need him to play every day, have him as your fourth out fielder, throw out of some barter in left field, maybe every day, second base, David Schneider. Yeah. Uh, or Addison Barter, a third base and I don't know, Spencer Horowitz in left field, do something insane because what you're doing isn't working, there's no indication that it will work. And if it doesn't work, you're going to be fired and this team is going to look a whole lot different in 2025 here, here, here, here, here, all right, when we come back, good job. Thank you. Um, the Colorado Avalanche, they stay alive. They also have like kind of a similar pay structure to the Maple Leafs, they don't have as many guys, but like the guys that they have for making a lot of money, there's three of them instead of like four. Yeah. And yeah, you know, like Hartrofune and Norris, yeah, it's a little different just to touch. And you know, what else is different that they've actually performed like quite well and one of them's a psycho. Yeah. All right. And Rick Tockett talking about like one of the major talking points surrounding the next Toronto Maple Leafs hire, I'll explain, we'll play the clip next as the fan morning show continues. Ben Anis, Brian Gunnick, Sportsnet 590, the fan. Ben Anis, Brian Gunnick, your job is to win many Stanley Cups. One's not good enough, honestly. Mm-hmm. When I look at this Avalanche team and the top end talent, doesn't it feel like anything short of sort of at least a mini dynasty like in that's like that's two Stanley Cups? Yeah, I mean. Did you view the lightning air rock, which is now obviously ending and maybe like the most obvious way it's going to end as Steven Stamps goes is going to wave goodbye. But like did you view couple Stanley Cups three straight trips as a dynasty? No, I think I think you got to get to three and I'm pretty generous with this stuff. Like I will give, I won't consider the penguins one, but I think like Sidney Crosby, him getting his three. I know they're like so far apart, but he is at the through line of all of that. That's the way I look at it. I think two, three year runs are special. And obviously if you win three straight trips, we're going to call you a dynasty. But I just think for me, dynasty and like, you know, we have to redefine it in this era. But for me, it has to have a like almost at least half decade field to it. Yeah. Yeah. I suppose the lightning could. They did that. Straight finals is pretty insane. No, no, I don't say that to poo poo anything. It's just like poo things. I am a small hall guy and I guess I have to be like small dynasty guy. Yeah. That's why I call a mini dynasty. Yep. It's called lightning hat is a mini dynasty, cute little, cute little appetizer of a dynasty. Yeah. It's like a burger. It's like a slider. Yeah. I think anything short of that for this avalanche team would be not a disaster, but like a disappointment. They got their one right and like, yeah, they may believe look at them as like the greatest dynasty that's ever existed in the history of pro sports wedding with nothing, cadre, maybe part of that. Yeah. And okay. So they won yesterday. This is their first lead of the series. The one game won an overtime. Yep. Against the Dallas stars and lo and behold, it is their stars doing the damage as Nathan McKinnon, he scores the game clincher to put them up too late in that game. We didn't even get to see like a really dramatic finish in a camera car. Kilmer car with two is so good in that game. I mean, he may be more than anybody is the reason why you should be dynastic, like the way he changes the game from the back end. But here that you're the point totals for those two fellas and then Michael Ranton as well. 13 points, 14 points, 13 points for those top three fellas who are you can talk about the Leafs having this unsustainable cap model and they did they have an extra dude here, right? Yep. Nathan McKinnon, it's there's no longer the best deal in sports, right? Like finally got paid 12.6 is the cap at this season. Michael Ranton and they also just like they have changed to having a new best deal in sports on the team though. Yeah. More times nine, yeah, that's like they've lost the McKinnon deal and being the best deal in sports. And now they still have after this, I think three more years of yeah, three more years of Kilmer car at nine million bucks. Yeah, that's pretty good. And then Michael Ranton, who's not making Mitch Marner money, which he probably should be making a Brayden point money, making nine to five. But that's not chump change, right? And they're making it work and those guys have performed in the postseason are performing in the postseason. That's a huge part of this from a cap perspective that I think is very informative for the Leafs as well. Gabriel Landescock, no, it's not $11 million, but it's $7 million on LCIR and how different with the Leafs have looked if no one's asking John Tavares to like take the dive there. But it's like if they had that money to work with, would they have been able to have a couple more of, you know, you look at your Ross Colton, making four million, you're lacking in making four and a half, it's like, that's those guys right there. I'm comparing cap structures. I'm not comparing what anybody's done. Did I have like a draft of my notes where, you know, the Avalanche go out yesterday to the stars? Thank you. Well, no. And, you know, talking about, I think who is the presumptive heart trophy winner Nathan McKinnon, only having two more postseason victories in the Toronto Maple Leafs. I may have. Oh, okay. But yeah, now they're alive and you can see them coming back against another great goaltender. Like, you want to talk about a tough path? Yeah. I mean, they turned Connor Hellabook into a peanut and like, do you think Jake Audinger's ending good? No. Oh, yeah, I do think he's very good. That was a weirdo. No, no, sorry. No, I don't. I thought you were going to say, like, you think Jake Audinger's no good? I was going to say, no, I think he's very good, although that was a weird, the second my car goal was an odd one last night and, like, again, like, that's not me taking anything away from what they're doing against Audinger. But that's what great teams do is they can, they can put good goalies in a, in a vice like that. Okay. The Stanley Cup playoffs resume tonight on sports net, obviously, as the Hurricanes have a chance to, boy, really, really make it tight, but time at MSG for game seven. But after that, it's Euler's Canucks. The most pivotal game you can have outside of a game seven. Game five with the series all tied up at twos, talked about Rick Talkett and his messaging after game four is being a Canucks team that it's not quite the Dante clerks thing where they're not supposed to be here, but they're really not. Like they've overachieved to a tremendous degree, right? Like, yeah, they're supposed to be there in the first round, not here, not here and not like up a game and then losing game four to even the series, the Oilers, even in the series with you. But yeah, the odds changing pretty dramatically. I would imagine in betting form as far as the Oilers being heavily favored going into this thing. And now I'm sure they're still favored, but it's a lot closer now for sure. And it's not just because it's tied up at twos, it's like the flow of these games, like the Canucks look full value and still after game four, Rick Talkett said, yeah, we got some guys here like who don't really realize it's the post season, we got like six passengers. He amended that yesterday, by the way, he said, like, I might have been off by a couple, but he didn't say which way. Yeah, of course. And say, it's like, actually, we only had four passengers, he or it could be eight. Yeah. Anyways, there was off by a couple. It was definitely a passenger that called Susie didn't do anything last year Carson. Yeah. Well, he was jumping on a popcorn, he'll be back for tonight's game five. They have ice cream sandwiches in their press box. So Rick Talkett had a chance to retract that statement or soften it a little bit yesterday. In fact, was asked about the tact of using his bully pulpit after a game four with his team still being very much alive in the series. Hey, Rick, you know, we're in the honesty business and this will shock you that we don't always get people as honest as you are with us. Do you ever worry as a coach in the heat of the moment that you're too honest and either just piss off a player or kind of spook them to thinking that maybe things aren't where we thought they were? No, because, you know, if you're going to, if I'm going to say guys playing great, you know, which I say a lot and our team's playing great, if you're having a couple of tough nights and I feel that you need to get going, that's the way it is. I mean, I don't believe I know the narrative. Some guys are going to you tune out. I mean, I disagree with that, but that's, but I'm not going to change. And I don't think by saying three or four guys had a tough night is a bad thing. Okay. So you can have your take that it doesn't matter like the, the, the, the coaching through the media thing, it's overrated and it's just for fans and it's fans. That's not my time. No, I'm saying not you, the, the, the royal, you can have that's like, it's not my dick. And you, you're like so above it. You're like, what do you silly? You silly sports fans think that things other than the numbers are impactful. All right. Here's a guy that said some pretty good success and has gotten this team to heights. They only dreamed of preseason. I mean, that's as definitive as it gets. Like, not only am I not afraid of spooking my players and like you can talk about them tuning this out, but like I think it's, that's not the way I think about it. And I'm not changing. And it's the reason we're here. Yeah. I think, I think that all is well, well said by him. I also go back to what I said about this yesterday though, that he don't get me wrong. If he felt like the only player on the ice that was no good for his team as Elias Pedersen, I have no doubt that he would name him. And if he felt like that was a right tact, I have no doubt that he would do that. He was he was on the six man boss. Yeah. Yeah. But it's a passenger. Yeah, it's not driving. No, no, it's self. It's like a Elon Musk car self self driving. There's just a bunch of passengers in there, but he also did shield him because he didn't name him. I think that goes back to a guy taking the right tact of calling someone out publicly. There is nothing wrong with naming one player and making it about them, but that certainly turns it into a way bigger story. And sometimes it's okay that something turns into a story, but it's also not lost on me. The target has not made this about the lightning rod in Vancouver that is Elias Pedersen. Like from a fan perspective there, that's the guy they're making this about. And talk. It's also what the media is doing. Yeah. Right. Like they came to Elias Pedersen yesterday off day, obviously. And they're like, God, did you see that, by the way? I only read it, but it was like, I didn't even see, he's like, you'd lost sleep last night. I couldn't get the bad. Like I'm doing my best. I gotta be better. I want to be careful with this because, you know, I think like, you know, William Newlander says stuff that I think people who don't watch William Newlander talk every day, you go, okay, it's a little different than what you're making out of this. So I don't know Pedersen's cadence. I don't necessarily have a great like history of his body language, but that was a guy who looked de-jacked it. He just had like, there's no life there. It's just like, are you with us? Are you okay? And I get it. This is a big spot for him, but Taka didn't make it. And I understand like the media is going to do what us evil Jackals are going to do, but he didn't make it just about him. He must have known that that's the guy that they'd go to. I mean, you just have to look at the point totals, right? Yeah. You have to look at what he's doing in this series. But he also didn't just call him out by name. He shielded him with four or five, I don't know, maybe seven, eight other, other guys. But I think that that's all part and parcel of it as well as him understanding that I don't think Rick Talkett is scared to call out Elias Pedersen one on one. I guarantee you it's happened many a time behind closed doors. Yeah, it was one time specifically during the regular season where he did it. And do you think there's a world where he saw how that went, either in terms of performance afterwards or in terms of, you know, how the player reacted to that and said, okay, that's not the best way to go about it. I just think we have been, it has been such a focal point here, rightfully so. It's been a massive topic, but that this is just normal coaching through the media stuff. It's become, it became such a third rail here that just could never be touched. And I think that that is one of the biggest beneficiary benefits you get out of the coaching change. Almost regardless of who it is that you bring in is that you can just have an honest critique post game without it being a departure from what Sheldon Keith was when he came in here. And it all goes back to what he had to be when he came in here. Because I think he had to be a version of himself that wasn't himself because he was trying to be not Mike Babcock. And yeah, I think that Tockett's handled this masterfully. But it's not lost on me that he's not, you know, sorry to go full destiny's child here. He is not saying his name. He's not saying lies better since then. Yeah. But it's, it's, listen, it's not Toronto, but it's Vancouver, right? Like there, that's not, and it's, it's not St. Louis, right? Like to the Craig Marouba point where it's like, yeah, it's one thing to talk about all the money that your best players are making and how they're underperforming in St. Louis as the blues head coach. It's quite another to, to say something like, hey, it's the playoffs. These guys are passengers in Vancouver, right? There's totally, there is also, and he hates the term house money. He hates them people talking about it. But there is an element of coaching with house money that it doesn't have to be. It can be, hey, we got five or six guys and need to be better tonight. It, it's not the, oh my God, everything is crumbling, Rome is burning. It's the end of an era here. And I think that that is, and again, it's the benefit of the job that he has done to put himself in that position. But because this isn't supposed to be the end, this isn't the all in season, I think it allows him to take a slightly more weird term, but to use for guy and Rick talking, but a slightly more relaxed approach to it. It's not fire and brimstone. It's need them to be better. But I think they understand that and it's a very different tact. >> I don't know, maybe it wasn't yelling, but I think calling guys passengers and talking about them not realizing it's the playoffs is. >> Yeah, it's pretty harsh. >> It's very harsh. >> We'll see. Maybe Elias Patterson has four goal game tonight. And then Rick Talkett gets to be feted in a race. >> I don't want that. >> A go on record is not wanting that over people's heads down the streets of Vancouver. We'll see. >> All right, when we come back, it's PGA Championship Week. First round, getting underway in what, like 15 minutes time? >> Something like that. >> That means we get to see all Michael Block again, he said one of the first two times. He is the first two time, 7.15 AM. >> Lead with a good thing. >> Yeah, a moment. >> Yeah. >> Remember his 15 minutes? >> No, no, I know. And then he's just like, hey, guys, want to walk me lick my foot for the rest of my 15 minutes of fame? >> I don't. >> All right, we'll get into that and talk to our pal Adam Stanley from Kentucky next as the fan morning show continues, Ben and his friend, Gunning, sports at 5.9 to the fan.
